My PRISON Cell Mate Was A CHOMO | Jamie Foltz
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We are back with another episode of Locked In with Ian Bick. On today's episode, I interview Jamie Foltz, who

who was a career criminal who eventually ends up robbing a pharmacy, but doesn't get caught right away. Instead, years later, the feds pick him up in relation to his robbery, and he's sentenced to multiple years in a federal prison. On today's episode, we dive into Jamie's story and find out how he was able to turn his life around. Thank you guys for watching Locked In with Ian Bick.

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Jamie, welcome to the show, man. Great to have you. You just drove five, five and a half hours to come out here. We appreciate it, man. Thank you. Yeah, this is dope. This is awesome, dude. Is this like your first time ever doing like a podcast? Yes, for sure. Absolutely. I mean, I watch a lot of podcasts, you know what I mean? I watch them, but yeah. And first time like sharing your story in depth, I'm guessing? To this point, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like this, like when I was in prison and things like that, of course, you know what I mean? Of course, I did a program at the end of prison, so yeah.

I got to share a lot of what I did there. That's awesome. So where are you from? What's your childhood like growing up? From Winchester, Virginia. I was born in actually Berryville, Virginia. I stayed there for, I don't know, nine years when I lived in the townhouses before my mom and dad got divorced when I was nine.

And then my mom got remarried. My dad just kind of went everywhere else. And I went with my mom, stayed there, hated my stepdad. You know what I mean? He was a great dude. He was really probably a really good dude that would have done anything for me. But I was an asshole kid and he was not my dad. So I rebelled. And I just think that kind of threw me into the craziness because my old man was the person that was the disciplinary person in my family. My mom was not. I get whatever the fuck I want out of my mom.

And that was a person you're living with, so you're going to gravitate towards that. Yeah, and now I'm growing up. You know what I mean? Now I'm 11, 10, 11. I'm starting to become a young man, and I'm starting to challenge this dude, I guess. Yeah, we got in fist fights and shit. The stepfather. Yes. Wow. Yeah, I was a horrible kid. Is he rebelling back at all? Yeah, um...

You know, he tries to be nice and stuff at first, but to me, he was just a goofy dude, man, and I just didn't like that. So I guess I rebelled against that, man, and I just did whatever I wanted to do. Like, I remember I used to get spray bottles. As kids, we'd run around spraying spray bottles instead of squirt guns because they sprayed further. So I would come out into the living room, he'd be sitting on the couch, and I would squirt him right in the face with this going, ch-ch-ch.

And he come chasing me down the hallway. And then I jumped out my window onto a picnic table where he couldn't get me. And he'd stick his head out the window and I'd shoot him again, straight in his face and just laugh at him, bro. Cause he couldn't get me. And then like everything would calm down. I come back in the house and I guess my moms will protect me. You know what I mean? I don't know.

and make whatever not happen. Now, do you have siblings at all? No. Um, I have a half sister and probably two half sisters. So you're an only child. How is like when your mom's raising you, is she rich, poor, middle class? No, we're middle class, man. Uh, my dad was a carpenter. My mom worked at a hospital. Uh, she was like, uh, you know what I mean? Regular, whatever in a hospital. She did that for like 25 years. Um, my dad was a carpenter, you know, he drank, smoked weed, uh,

They got divorced by nine. That was crazy. Up until the point that I was like nine years old, I seen wild shit. I remember my dad coming in the house one time with like his face kicked in, bro. He had a hole in his cheek because he was at my mom's friend's house fucking with her. And the husband came home and kicked the shit out of him. And I come down the steps, you know what I mean? Six, seven years old. And there's my pops with blood all over him. Shit like that was just crazy.

What about high school? What's high school like for you? I didn't do high school, man. You never went to high school? No. Ninth grade, I quit. The last day I went was the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. Why'd you quit? Girls. What do you mean, girls? Girls. Girlfriends? Just because, you know, what could you do in school, man? There's nothing I could do sitting in school. By the time we was in ninth grade, the scumbag that ended up snitching on me had a car.

So when he had a car, like we can leave anytime we want it. So we were doing whatever we would hook up with whatever chicks and then take them to their house and,

You know, do our thing. Eat sandwiches, have sex, whatever happened. This is when you're 14 years old. 15, yeah, 14, 15. So that was a day in the life. Because he was like a year older than us. Yeah. That's so funny. Yeah. So you're just driving. Is your mom like telling you, like is she worried that you're not going to school? Oh, yeah. Back then, you know, we had Truett officers and shit coming by the house, but...

What was I gonna do bro? Now what year is this just to put it in perspective? Oh shit well I was supposed to graduate in '94. So this is, I wasn't even born yet. Right. You're supposed to graduate high school in 1994. Yeah I think that's right. So you never got a high school diploma ever? No I got a GED. When you eventually went to prison? No I got that actually on the street. My first charge was at 18 years old was a nighttime stealing charge.

So I got probation, first offender status, where if you complete probation, you get no felony on your record. I did that at 18 years old, and that was like the first thing that I did, and I think

I think I completed the probation and got past that part of it. That was the first crime you ever committed? No, absolutely not. So when do you start first committing crime? Dude, like the first thing I ever did was probably about five or six years old. I rode my bicycle all the way to A&P in Berryville and I stole a pack of gum. I mean, everyone does that. Right. But my aunt and uncle were standing in line. I got busted. My mom and dad made me take it back.

So from there, like when I was a kid, I was a hustler when I was young. I mowed grass. I shoveled driveways. I went to the store and bought penny candy for, you know, I buy 100 pieces of penny candy for a dollar and bring it back and sell them for five cents a piece. This is like pre nine years old because this is what I'm still in the townhouses. So anyways, I just, you know, that was me, man. I wanted to hustle. I wanted to make money. I wanted to do something, be something. I don't know.

So do you think high school wasn't like, um, like stimulating your mind, which was maybe one of the reasons why you left? For sure. Cause you're like advanced at this point. Like you're thinking, I want to make money. I want to hustle. I want to do this. Well, I was in gifted and talented classes up till sixth grade. And then when I got to the sixth grade, I was in the gifted and talented class, but I just didn't do my work. Like I never did homework. Like I, in the classes, I killed it in class, but I just never took nothing home. Fuck that homework, bro. I'm not doing that. Yeah.

And then I just went downhill from there. And then of course, puberty and girls and all those things come into play. And that's the only reason I went to school to see my girl. I mean, I wonder how many other kids are in your position, like in life that just like, it's, it's not there. Like I know for me, I struggled with school, not that because I wasn't smart enough to do it just because it wasn't stimulating. It didn't, it didn't match my ambition level whatsoever. It holds you back in a way. And

And like, that's why I left corporate because you could be above and beyond. You could do this, you could do that. And there's no, they're not looking at you in a different light. Everyone's on that same level and that's hard. It doesn't stimulate you in that regard. And it's like, it's so boring. You know what I mean? Like I can learn music lyrics by listening to a song three times. And I always said, if I could have put math and English and all that shit in

into a song than I would have known at all. Just like ABCDEFG. Everybody knows that, right? Because it's a song, bro. Yeah. Now, how do you go from stealing this pack of gum to escalating into more crimes? Okay, so in the ninth grade when I hook up with this dude, you know, he's driving. His people are just shitbags. Like, they're just not good people. Uh,

fucking, you know, jail, all that kind of stuff. Like, and this wasn't something that was a part of my life up to this point. I didn't know anything about it, but then we start stealing. So we start shoplifting and then we start shoplifting as a team.

And we end up starting two pawn shops. So there's a pawn shop in Winchester that's still there. And there was a pawn shop in West Virginia that once we hooked up with one dude that got through a guy, whatever, brought him anything we wanted, and he gave us 50 cents for every dollar. So if it was $1,000, we got 500 bucks. If it was $100, we got 50. You know what I mean? And some things I could get down my pants was $1,000 all day long.

so that's where it all started and then he started the pawn shop and then his competition wanted us to come and we so you're stealing you're just stealing every day bro that's all we did our pawn shop just based off of stolen items for well that you're supposed to sign tickets and all that shit but if you know the people they know ways around that and i knew the people so we could get around all that like we stole so much stuff we was hitting the same stores twice a week and the people just knew us when we walked in like if

knew that's what we were there to do. Like they just didn't even watch at this point. Are you doing drugs at this point? Smoking a little weed. Like I didn't even smoke any weed. I didn't do any drugs until I was 16 and then I smoked weed. So what do you do with the money you're making at that age? Smoke pot. So you just spend it on pot? Yeah, just spend it on pot. And no one's tripping about pot back then in the 90s? Yeah, you know, it was illegal but it was horrible pot. It was fucking dead to

brown seedy just horrible weed and hard to find you know i mean we was kids hard to find so there was another buddy that hooked up with us joey you know i mean that's actually still a good dude whatever he's whatever but uh he always smoked and he knew more about drugs like they huffed gas and shit like that i'd never done no shit like that so when i hooked up with this crew then i'm huffing gas and i'm huffing glue and butane and all this shit when we don't have weed

So I guess that's just how I got introduced into the mind altering substances. Now, my grandparents were alcoholics on my mother's side. So I didn't want to drink because I seen everything that they did. Like I seen the horrible nights and puking and all the shit that that went through. That was crazy for me. So I didn't want to drink. But the drug side of it, I've never seen how that affected people. So I guess I just didn't care.

I mean, I didn't understand. So why do you even start doing drugs then, eventually? Like, what was the interest? Why does someone wake up one day and say, hey, I want to try this drug, if they weren't even influenced by it? I really don't even know, man. Like, I remember the first couple times we had some weed.

and we would go out in an orchard or something in a car to smoke it and i would sit in the back on the back of the car while they smoked it i didn't even want none like i was just didn't want none and eventually i smoked and from there it's like oh shit this is great whatever you're fucking stoned you feel good you know i mean and then that leads to a perk set and that leads to a xanax a volume at that time and you just got hooked on it yeah man well once you get anything that's uh

Any kind of those medications that affect your body, you're over. It's done. Now, how addicted are you to these drugs? Like, is it to the point you can't function or... So that comes years later. So...

let me see. I hook up with my girl, uh, and we start doing Viking in and shit like that. And we live in a house, just me and my girl live together. And then I got my, who's actually my co-defendant. He lives downstairs and people are in and out, but whatever. We started taking Xanax, uh, Viking in volume, shit like that. Just wherever, wherever we can get it. And then the next thing you know, you got to have it. So now you're buying 10 at a time because as soon as you run out, you feel like shit. Like you can't motivate, you can't do nothing. You know what I mean? You're just there.

And then I guess we lived like that for, I don't know, two, three years. I had my son. And then that's when I robbed a pharmacy because by that point, oxys had been introduced. So a buddy of mine calls us and he lives down in the city. He's like, oh, we got these pills. He said, this pill is eight Percocets in one pill.

You know what I'm saying? And we're taking like two perks and we're fucked up off of two perks. He's like, they're 15 bucks a piece. So you think this is gold? Bro, this is gold. This is fucking boom. Oh, what? We jump in the car. Boom. We're there. So we get there and we don't know anything about it. Nobody knows about these pills now. They're brand new.

So we just take a little nibble and we maybe a quarter or something like that. And we are fucked up. I was scratching faces. This is before you robbed the place. You're just trying. Yes, this is before. This is before the robbery. So this is probably 96. 96. I would say something like that. How could you just go in and try it there? Were they giving out free samples? No, my boy had them. So down in the city, tied to my case in the end ended up being like 75 or 80 people and a doctor.

So the doctor was just writing scripts for money at this point. He would just meet you in the parking lot. This shit was all in my discovery. My discovery was like this thick, bro. It was insane. So anyways, that's where they was getting the pills from. So they was, you know, we had, and I had another crooked doctor that would give it to us too. Like he was, I don't know,

Indian or whatever. Cause I remember me telling me one time, he said, I come to America to be doctored and not drug dealer. You know what I mean? Cause so many people was there, bro. We were ordering pizzas in his parking lot and have them delivered to our car waiting to get pills from this doctor at this point. But he became one essentially. Yes. He became a drug dealer. Yeah. And then, you know, once he stopped giving us the opiates and shit that we wanted, we stopped coming to him.

So then all that shit cut out and they found another doctor. I didn't know nothing about that. At this point, I'm addicted to shit. So if you have these doctors, why do you need to rob a place?

Because I didn't have enough money to pay for the pills everybody was selling. Now, these pills are just to support your habit. They're not to resell. You're not thinking money at this point? Oh, if I can, sure. If I can buy one for $15 and sell it for $25 and make one for free, I'll do that. But the main priority is getting high. Just getting high, bro. That's all. What are you doing for work? Still robbing? No, I actually started building houses with my dad or building decks with my dad when I was 13. That's the dad that left.

Yes, that's the one that mom and dad got divorced. Yeah, so he was a carpenter. So I started building shit with him. So I learned early that I was good with my hands. You know what I mean? So I was a cut man for a carpenter crew. He's not seen that you're addicted to drugs at all? He's not around, bro. He's a piece of shit. Wow. Straight up, my dad's a piece of shit. Like he's just a selfish dude that only thing he cared about was women. He cared about whatever woman was in his life and how good she could treat him. He didn't give a fuck about his kids.

until I could give something to him, you know what I'm saying, at the point to where I could work for him and he knew I could make him money. And then I ran his crew for a couple of years. Like, you know, but other than that, dude, he was just a piece of shit.

Do you think his like taste for women trickled down towards you to affect some of your actions? Probably because I'm not the type of person to just fucks women. I don't just like to just see a woman and fuck her and move on to the next. That's just not me. I like to know a woman to have a relationship. You're a lover boy. I guess so. Yeah. Because I guess seeing my dad be like that and not treat women the way I thought they were supposed to be treated. You know, I mean, he didn't hit nobody. He didn't hit no women that I knew of.

of but I just didn't like the way he yelled and talked to him all negative all the time cussing everything they did was wrong you know I mean which was the same for me there was never a good job Jamie it was always you did this wrong you did that wrong that's how I treated my mom that's how I treated his last wife that he lived with for 34 years you know

just a scumbag so he didn't care about me he didn't care about ball games he didn't care about that my mom died for him to fucking help me bro she called all the time like help him out and i can't take care of him i can't control him you know i'm saying he's beating up my fucking husband for christ's sakes you know i'm saying come do something i remember one time uh she kicked me out to him and he had to take care of me and his fucking it was on his birthday

Because I remember walking down the thing and he said, happy fucking birthday, huh? Like that was to me, bro. Like I'm coming to you. I'm your kid. And you're saying happy fucking birthday. Like fuck me because you're anyways, he's a piece of shit.

And that's kind of where my whole life is going at this point, too, is because the negativity that he brought to my entire family has trickled down even to my son without influence. And I'm trying to change that with what I do every day. I'm trying not to be that asshole that my dad was because I can point out the negative. We all came right. Look at the news.

It's all negative shit because that's what people see, man. We don't want to see the positive and shit. You have kids at this point? I do. Well, when I robbed, when I robbed, my kid was born in 98. I think I robbed a pharmacy six months later. So let's talk about that robbery. What happens that day? Why did you decide to pick that pharmacy? So we were probably, I mean, I'm strung out as hell at this point, bro. I'm probably walking around six foot six at 150 pounds. And you're how old? 25.

One, two? 21, 22. 21, two, something like that, yeah. I don't remember because I didn't drink, so I didn't give a shit about that. So my co-defendant on this charge, he had just been in a car wreck like three days before that, had 54 staples in his head, had broke an ankle or some shit like that where the seat slammed back into him. Long story short, I picked him up, and they didn't give him no pills. So he couldn't get no oxys. He couldn't get nothing from them, so we had no pills.

And I'm in my car and I'm so fucked up on Somas. I'm taking Somas this day. I'm so fucked up on Somas. I wrecked my car three days, three times, three times a day of the robbery. I wrecked my car, spun it around, whatever. So we're just trying to figure out how to get some pills. We can't get no money. He can barely walk. Like we go to try to steal, I think, and we're going through the store and I got him in a wheelchair and

You know what I'm saying? Pushing him through the store. But we couldn't get nothing, so we couldn't get no money that way. It's actually probably a good way to steal. Like when you have someone. Oh, we had already done it. Yeah, they're not looking at you. Yeah, we had already done it. Way more than that, bro. I've been within there several times and got mad shit out of there. We used to get Christmas lists. Like literally people used to bring us Christmas lists every year and say, here, I want this. So you guys go into this pharmacy with him in a wheelchair. Yeah.

No, no. So we started robbing, trying to rob everything before that with him in a wheelchair. Couldn't get anything. So we're sitting at the house and we had been filling scripts at this pharmacy for years. So we've been scoping this pharmacy and talking about it, just never had the balls to do it. We were just, you know, thieves, I guess. We were stealing shit. We weren't robbers. Had no guns, no shit like that. So we go to Walmart and we get some fucking...

You know, things. They don't have the things in them. So we got to take them home and cut them out. Ski mask. We cut them. We make our own fucking ski. I'm high as shit, bro. I'm so fucked up this day. My ski mask was all crooked on my face. Nose, ass, head. I was fucked up. So anyways, we get home and cut them. And we go up there and we scope it out. And I remember going through the parking lot and this car was coming by. And I'm so high. I drift over and our mirrors hit.

Like right in front of the store, we're scoping the store, I'm banging a mirror against the car beside me as I'm going by. Anyways, nobody's in the store, so we go down and park the fucking car down the road at Kentucky Fried Chicken and walk up. So when we walk in, ski mask on, there's a dude there cleaning the rugs because it's almost closing time.

so as soon as we come in my boy Steven he gets them down to ground get down to ground motherfucker you know what I mean and I go right over to the counter and I'm so high I don't even think about what I'm doing I'm like here are your 40 milligram oxycontins that's what you're saying that's what I'm saying I'm slurring I'm slurring no guns there's no guns he's telling this dude over here though that he's got a gun

He's like, get down on the fucking floor, motherfucker. I got this 9mm. I'll fucking shoot you. Rah, rah, rah, rah. To the carpet guy. And I'm over here with the women like, give me all your oxycodone and I'm fucked up as shit. 40mg is all I asked for. Just 40. That's all I wanted, dude. They made 80s and 20s and 10s and 5s and Dilaudids and... Dude, it's a fucking...

And all I wanted was the 40s. That's all I asked for. I'm fucking retarded at this point. What happened? So they put two bottles up there. One of them's brand new. I can see the seal on it. I kind of remember this part. Not really. But they put the second one up there. And then he comes. Stephen comes over. And he's like, give us all the Oxycontins. So now they come down with the 80s. And they come down with the 20s. So we got all that shit sitting there.

Snatch it up, boom, we're out the door, running down the fucking thing. As soon as we come out, we pull our masks off. So when we pull our masks off, I don't know what happens, but somewhere along the lines, I drop my fucking mask, right? Fucking retard, rookie mistake. Get in the car, take off, get all the way home, do a line of fucking oxys this long, bro. That motherfucking line of oxys, it was this long.

Oh you guys are breaking up the oxygen. Yes at this point we're snorting them okay. What's the benefit of snorting as opposed to just. So much faster so if you take the time release off of them they don't make them anymore like this but you could put them in your mouth get the time release off wipe it off crush them and then you just snort that and it went straight because your mucous membrane sucks it up faster than your stomach distributes it. Okay. So at this point we were snorting them so yeah we did a big fucking line whatever so years go by whatever this is I guess 98.

We both end up in jail in 99. So in 99, they come in and they're investigating us for this robbery and they take hair samples. Okay. So they're pulling our hair out. They're taking DNA, all this shit. Cause they know there's hair in that fucking mask. So I'm like, Oh fuck dude. They got us. They got us. We're done. We're done. It's fucking over. There's no way.

The masks come back inconclusive. So there's no hair of mine or Stephen's in this mask. Why do they think the check though? Because there was hair in the mask. No, but why do they think that on this one? Because my fucking boy run his mouth too much, bro. I remember coming back and telling him, my old lady that night when we were doing lines this long, I was like, no one in the world ever needs to know about this. Ever in life do they ever need to know about this. All we're going to do is get high for a week because that's all we got.

Dude, it's horrible. Nobody needs to know. But this motherfucker always had a thing about running his mouth, dude. He always wanted to tell everybody what we did. He couldn't be happy with what we got. He had to tell everybody to be that big man.

So a couple of people knew and, you know, word got around and that's when they started investigating us. This was a year later though. At least. And then it comes back inconclusive. So that comes back inconclusive. Now here's the thing. Later on, I'm locked up again. I did a year on that bid. Come on, whatever. So I'm locked up again on some assault on a cop, whatever. Assault on a cop? Well, assault, it turned out to be assault on a security guard, but it still, it gave me an enhancement that sent me to the penitentiary. Okay.

But, uh, so at this point it's just like, uh,

There's just so much going on, man, that I can't keep track. You have like a life of crime going on. Yes, it's just so much going on with robbing everything and doing everything. So we get the pills, we come out, we're locked up now. And it's five years later. Statute of limitation is five years. So I'm locked up. It's December 2nd, 1998 when we robbed it. This is like December 2nd, 2003. My indictments fall. While I'm in state jail, okay, I'm doing jail time, federal indictments fall.

Day before that I just got busted off work release for a bunch of oxys you know saying where I was so high come in they found oxys in my pocket dude where I just anyways so I'm getting kicked off work release they take me back to the jail feds pick me up ship me off to you know Orange County Virginia which was the most horrible jail ever. Did you know what it was for like did you say I'm hit? Yes so I had state charges that I beat.

So with the state had already charged us for the robbery. Oh, the state figured out. So the state charges for the robbery before that, but they couldn't get us. Okay. So when I was in the state and I'd already paid my $50,000 bond and all those, dude, there's so many stories. I can't even keep track. So I'd already been home. You know what I'm saying? Uh, on the state thing. And they said, well, the feds are going to pick this up. We're going to know a process. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? I don't pay for a lawyer. I don't pay bond. And now all that shit means nothing. That's what they do. And y'all are shipping me to the feds.

Yeah. So they shipped me to Orange County. We sit there for six, eight months. So had this been like two weeks later, you, the statute of limitations would have been hit. Done. And you were. The next day it would have been done. So these whole five years. The next day, literally the next fucking day, bro, they couldn't have got me for this. This entire five years, you probably always had that in the back of your mind. Scared me to death every day of my life. Cause that was like the big thing.

fish of everything you've done. Facts. You know that weight on, you know what I'm saying? To have that holy shit on your back, bro. That was my holy shit. So you get, what exactly are you charged with? Oh, so the first time they started out, it was four, four counts. It was like conspiracy, robbery, use of a firearm during a robbery. But you guys didn't have a firearm. And use of a dangerous weapon. But you know how they do. They're going to charge you with every fucking thing they can so that you'll plead down. So I'm facing 80 years.

Like, my charges are 80 years. And, you know, conspiracy and get whatever the fuck they want to give you on conspiracy. So anyways, they kept us separated. And then they shipped us back to talk to investigators. They had been fucking watching us for years. Like, they had pulled us over. We didn't know it was them. So anyways, when they pull us in, the DA tells us, he's like, if you can convince me that you didn't have a gun, he said, I'll drop everything but the robbery.

And then I'll convict you of the robbery and I'll give you the low end of your guidelines, which mine was 48 months. So I was like, fuck yeah, bro. Let's go. Like when you're happy to get fucking four or five years, dog, you know, you've been facing some bullshit. So I'm like, bet. So now they pull us out of these cars and we're going in to see the DA and they got me and my boy separated. So as soon as we get out of the car, I'm like, yo, just tell them the truth, bro. I'm telling them the fucking truth and we're going home, whatever.

So as soon as we get in there, I tell them about it wasn't a gun. They dropped it down. And they start asking me about other shit, other murders and shit. They want me to snitch on some shit. He's like, we'll give you a downward departure, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he names all these murders and shit, bro. And I'm like, dude, I don't know nothing about no fucking murders, man. I said, I'm not telling nothing if I did know, but I don't know about no fucking murders, for Christ's sake. Jamie, this is literally a movie scene where...

where like they're bringing the drug addict who committed a petty crime and they think he's like this ringleader of all this shit. Bro, it was terrible. Yes. And that's how they thought we were. And I'm like, bro, I'm a petty drug addict. That's all I am. Like all I want to do is get high. That's all I care about. Yeah. And asking me all that shit. And I was like, man, just give me my little time. So anyways, that was the 48 months. And then they gave, I had an upward departure for the weapon. It was a dangerous weapon for saying we had a gun.

and then i had some other points added so i ended up with 60 months 63 months you took a plea deal didn't go to trial no fuck no and you're on trial on offense are you insane i went to trial did you you're fucking nuts the guy we interviewed before you too went to trial too yeah yeah you're fucking that's you got big balls on that one um i mean i actually i'm on a rare case i got less time after going to trial and losing half

the cash than my plea deal. But they were out to get me. I mean, I think it was good in my scenario to go to trial so the judge could understand my whole story. Right. Whereas if I didn't take a plea deal, it wouldn't, you know. Right. You don't get a chance to tell your part. Exactly. And I probably would have only got house arrested if I didn't go out of state against my bond to gamble. And that's crazy shit. Right. So you take a plea deal. You're in the jail. Like you don't get bail or anything. Yeah.

No. So I'm already locked up. I'm already doing time on other charges. You just wanted to get it over with. So once the feds convicted me, I still had another state charge to go for. So once I was convicted there in the state, they picked me up, or the feds, they picked me up like two weeks later and sent me back to my hometown. So I stayed there for a year completing another bid. Oh, they didn't just overlap it with the fed bid? No, it didn't go straight. So if it would have, if my fed bid would have been first, then my state shit would have been concurrent.

But since my state shit was first, I had to do all that before I even got a day for my fed time. Now what's going on with your family, your parents and your kid at this point in time? Okay. So at this point I got a daughter too. You have two kids now. Yes. I have a son and a daughter. Um, and,

They were both like their mom. I'm with their mom. We live together. We're doing, you know, whatever I'm doing dope. She's, you know, uh, working and kind of keeping the sanity in the house, if you will. So she was being the good parent. Yes. Yes. Cause I caused so much trouble, dude. Like the ripple effect of what I did to everyone, to my mom, to my dad, to my girl, to my kids. Like I know that shit is never going to be turned around. Um,

And the only way I can explain it too, man, it's like when that shit's going on, you got a demon. It's like being possessed. Have you ever seen fucking the exorcist, man? Yeah, of course. Like, you know what I mean? Let Jesus fuck you. You ever remember that part, bro? That's horrible shit right there. But that's what it is, man. That shit grabs you and it does what it wants to do with you. That's addiction. Yeah, bro. I mean, I would just do things that this guy sitting here right now today would never fucking do. Never in life would I do that shit. But I just did it. Like, didn't give a fuck.

I mean, I remember stealing a tip jar from a fucking strip club one night, knocking bounces over and just running out with the whole tip jar.

And it was always just to get drugs. More dope, bro. More dope, more party. Yeah, we paid bills. You know what I'm saying? Of course, I had to have a place to live. I had my own house and shit. Did your wife, girlfriend, whatever she was, leave you when you got sentenced to that? She stuck with you? Oh, she stuck around for a little bit, man. She stuck around for a little bit and hung out. Like when I got, like when I was gone for the six months, we didn't talk too much when I was down away. But when I come back to town, she was there for visits three, four times a week.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then she started drinking and I knew that when I left. So she started drinking at this point, dude. Like I remember coming into a visit and I could smell the alcohol.

She's coming drunk to the visit. Yeah. With your kids? Yeah. That's terrible. Yeah, bro. So this was a fucked up part. So you're sober by this point, though. Yeah, well, I'm in jail. I don't have no choice. Well, no, there's a lot of drugs in jail. No, no, no. Well, there's no drugs there. And there was very little drugs throughout my entire bid that I could afford. So jail sobered you up. Yeah. So she come in. She was drunk. You know what I'm saying? And I remember my son telling me that she was drinking from the bottle with the chicken on it.

with a chicken yeah wild turkey what does that mean it's a wild turkey bottle of liquor just got a turkey on it so my son thought it was a chicken okay so anyways i remember him telling me that dude and you know we argued about that or whatever and at this point she just had an issue and uh i went to prison so i went to prison from there yeah are you though like to be sitting there on a visit as a father who's now trying to get his life together and seeing this like the role is kind of reversed yeah man expect well i pulled her into the drug life you

You know what I mean? When I met her, she was 17. I was 20. She had never done anything but maybe drank a little bit of wine at that point. And like our second date, we went to King's Dominion at 630 in the morning. I dosed her with a hit of acid.

that's just like what I did. That was me. You know what I'm saying? So we went to Kingsman and had a fucking blast. When you saw her, when you saw her drunk on those visits, did it, did you see yourself in her? Because now you are the parent that's trying to show up and she's not. So that's how you were not too long before that. Yeah, dude. Uh, uh,

it took me a long time to be accountable for any of my shit. So I probably cussed at her like she was totally wrong without thinking about what I had done. But yeah, man, it was hard. It made it tough. It made me wonder about what was going on. Um, and then I went to prison and then she overdosed and died. She died. Yeah. While you were in prison. Yeah. So while I was in Lee County penitentiary, she died. And what was that feeling like for you? Oh, it destroyed me. It destroyed me. Like I love this woman. I chose her to have my kids, you know what I'm saying? This wasn't an accident. Like, you know what I mean? Uh,

And it fucked me up. Like I had nightmares for four years, like in prison, like four years where I couldn't sleep. Like every night I had some kind of nightmare about her. So what were you doing? Like you're so not in control of that situation. What's happening with your kids? How do you cope with that? I don't know, dude. Like you're in jail. What else are you supposed to do? I mean, I tried it. You don't as men. We don't like, hey, oh, my God. You know what I'm saying? But of course, I was fucked up.

So I remember when they told me in the chapel, I called one of my boys, Nate. I was like, yo, call my boy, Nate. I need somebody to holler, whatever. So Nate come down and I lost it, bro. I started crying. I'm fucked up. And he pulled me back together. He's like, Jamie, get your shit together. You got to go back in the block. You know what I'm saying? Whatever. Come back in the block. And everybody was cool, man. Like everybody was really nice that found out about it. You know what I'm saying? It was all consoling and good dudes. You know what I'm saying? But yeah, it was fucked up. You know, you got to think about it. And then like you got so much time to think when you're in there.

that diverting your attention away from those things you don't want to think about is hard. So, you know, I'm a hell of a spade player. I love spades. I'm a hell of a pinnacle player. You know what I'm saying? I've learned chess. You know what I'm saying? Handball, basketball. I did all that shit. If you could do it, I fucking did it because I needed my brain to be not thinking about her.

not thinking about not being there for my kids. You know what I'm saying? They're living with her mom and then my mom and her husband at this point, different guy than the one I beat up because he died of a brain tumor. She's still with him. So anyways, they did a lot to take care of my kids. Like they were the main ones. Mary took care of them and then my mom and them came in and kept them on the weekends and things like that and took care of them. What was your first conversation with your kids like after their mother passed?

Well, they were young, dude. So she passed right when my daughter was probably a year and a half, two years old. And my son's like five years older than her. So Corey knew her more than Paige did. And the first time I seen them was a visit at Lee County Penitentiary. They come in and my daughter didn't know who I was. Literally, she didn't know who I was. She was scared of me. You know what I'm saying? My son knew who I was. And of course, with him being warm to me by the end of the visit, she's on my lap.

And it's got to be tough. I can't even imagine. I remember one time. I remember the first visit. My mom was holding her and it was time to go. So they had us all on this side of the room and they had them on that side of the room. And she jumped down and ran to me and it fucking killed me, destroyed me right there. And I knew right then that I had to do something different to, you know, like I had to do something else. This prison life and this jail life had had to stop.

And this was how long into your sentence when that happened? Probably two years, two and a half years. So at that point, you're like, I'm not going to let this define me. Like, I'm going to...

move past us yeah so uh my biggest thing that when i went in was uh i wanted to i wanted to learn as much as i could learn and i wanted to build my body up i wanted to be strong because i was so skinny everybody called me slim the drugs didn't help either yeah they yeah well that's why they called me slim and i swore when i went to prison nobody would ever call me slim again so what was your called slim since what was your prison nickname

Slim for a while. And then it became six. They called me six. Yeah. Cause I was six foot six was six years. Okay. So they called me six. Now what's a penitentiary like for someone like you that didn't come from like a gang background or that, like you were a drug addict essentially. Scary bro. Are you, are you riding with anyone? What do you know? So when I come into the prison too, now they move me down by myself. So I didn't come in on no prison bus or none of that shit. I come in in a squad car.

They moved me into some fucking jail, right? And I thought I was going to a medium or a low. But since I had assault on a fucking security guard, that set me up. Anyway, so they come in and he's like, you're going to penitentiary, Lee County Penitentiary. And bro, like, I imagine my face went white. Like, what? Penitent what? Penitent who? You know what I'm saying? Penitent what? And I'm scared to death at this point, bro. I'm shitting my drawers.

And then when they take me in, you know what I mean? Here, you got to go through R&D and all that bullshit. Walk down this giant hallway, get these fucking boots and stuff. And then you see this giant fucking compound. It's like, it's scary, bro. It's scary. They need to send you to rehab, not to a U.S. penitentiary. Yeah, for sure. Because, and you know, I've heard you say that several times on other podcasts, dude, and things like that makes perfect sense. Because when I went to jail the first time, I always say that I had a GED. And

in prison in crime when I came out I had a PhD I knew so much more you know light cigarettes I knew I'd do a lot more shit I'd smuggle so much stuff in and out like I was so much better a criminal after being locked up the first time I ever did time you

You know what I mean? So I didn't want to do that this time. When I come into this time, I wanted to learn. You know what I mean? And of course, everything's divided. The white boys are the white boys. The Muslims are the Muslims. You know, you got so many cars. You got a DC car. You got Mississippi, whatever. You know what I'm saying? But the white boys, you got two little tables.

You know what I mean? By the volleyball court. So are you riding with these guys? No, they want me to patch up. They want me to do a lot of shit like that and I'm not going to do it. Are you a solid dude? So, you know what I'm saying? It is what it is. So they didn't bother you? No, I ran with all of them. I talked to them on a continuous basis. Like we hooked up, uh, I was probably sellies with one or two, you know, AB or AC dudes throughout my bid. You know what I mean? Um,

So you could go to prison and not ride with a gang if your paperwork was straight? For sure. Did they check your paperwork? You know what? I was thinking about that too, man, because I don't really think they did. But to also know that we had a certain guy that everybody's shit went through that I learned later. I didn't know that at the time.

So later on I learned that there was a certain person they sent all of your name and your number through and they looked you up on the outside and made sure. So they probably knew I was solid. They probably knew I was a good dude. Now to the spades because you said you played spades. Can you explain what spades is?

explain what spades is. Yeah, like explain how to play it and why it's such a popular game in prison. Oh man, I don't know. I've never been really asked that before. But okay, so I guess best thing about spades is it's more predictable than other things for me. I don't play poker. I like to play counting games.

So with spades, there's 52 cards. Each man gets 13 cards. You've got 13 of each suit. You have to learn how to count. Trump is which the main suits that the most powerful is spades. So that can beat anything. If you run out of suits, you can cut. But if I run you all out of your Trump and then now I have a power suit of hearts or diamonds or clubs, you can't cut my shit and I do a rundown on.

So once I learned how to do that and run a dime with the rundown and be able to take my deuce of hearts and set it to the side and say, that's a book. Count that shit. Count my deuce right there. Nobody's going to count that two of hearts. I'm going to pimp that shit on you at the end. I loved it. It was just fun. Why do they call it a book? Like what's a book in space? A book is four. So you're going to play. Everybody plays. One, two, three. Whoever wins that book, you got four people. Whoever wins that book, maybe it's the ace, king, queen, jack. The ace is going to win.

You know what I mean? Maybe it's a King four, seven, nine. You know what I'm saying? Highest card wins every time as long as it matches suit. But if someone throws a spade on it, it cuts it and they win the book. Now if they, they have to be out of that suit before they can do that. Cause then you call a renege. Yeah. Yeah.

That's awesome. If you're good enough to actually be able to follow all them books and point that reading book out, you know, you're getting there. So I got to the point where spades got boring and Pinochle become more interesting. I never got into Pinochle. Pinochle's 80 cards. Now you got 20 of each suit and nothing but 10 through ace. And it goes ace, 10 king. So confusing. They would have separate decks for Pinochle. Did you play dice at all? No, I never, I'm not a gambler.

So you guys, you just played for fun just with the guy? Oh, I was the guy that lost a 55 cent suit and flipped the fucking table over. Those guys were interesting. Yes, that was me. You get a lot of those guys. Yeah, I couldn't do the gambling. It was too much for me. I didn't like losing my shit. Did you have like a prison hustle because you didn't really have much money? Yes, that's what I was going to say. Just now too, man, I ran a store. Oh,

I always used to. You were the store guy? Every time I went in, I was the store guy. Even in the penitentiary? Yes, absolutely. So how did you build enough bank to be the store guy? I started with 60 bucks, man. I had 60 bucks. And you just kept building it. And I flipped it and I flipped it and I flipped it and I flipped it. And I think when I left, I gave away over fucking probably 12, $1,500 worth of stuff. No one gave you a hard time being the new white guy around? No, I was there for...

at least four or five months before I opened the store. You know what I mean? And I got to the point where I was good with everybody. You know what I mean? I hung with everybody. I was in a good block too. So I was in, I was in J block, which was, it was called a, a program block, if you will, like, because you went to classes like two and a half hours of the day.

But it also got you out of other shit. You know what I mean? You got single cell. You know what I mean? We had TV rooms. It was our own. We had, you know, special little privileges that you got down there for going to this little two and a half hour class. So instead of being like, you know what I mean, people that didn't want to go, we all got together and all of us went. We was like, shit, let's get together as a group. We'll all be in the same block together. Fuck yeah. That's what we did. So, man, we're all in J block together now. And I'm, yeah, I'm hustling candy bars. Now, something I have to ask you about is tattoos. Did you get any tattoos? This whole sleeve.

Now, were you tattooing? I know you're a tattoo artist now. Were you tattooing in prison? No. I didn't start tattooing until I got out. My co-defendant got out about a year after me, and he started tattooing inside. So in prison, when you were getting your arm tattooed, can you walk me through the process? So the biggest thing for me was I always had to make sure that the CO was cool. So whenever CO shifts and things like that went, we always had water bags and things like that in the penitentiary because we didn't have...

you know, waste where I was there. So I always, always talk to the guard. As soon as you come in, I'd be like, what's the expectations? Because even though I wasn't affiliated, if you will, I was still the guy they went to in the block.

If these two guys wanted to get moved and they went to the counselor, the counselor didn't care. But if I come to the counselor and I was like, yo, I need Ian to go in with Billy because Billy snores and whatever, they would move you immediately. Have it done before count folks. That's what they would tell me. Like when there was a riot, they come down and got me as the white dude. And then this dude red is the black dude to take us to the chapel in order to tell everybody what was going on so that we could come back and tell everybody why we were on lockdown. And I'm not patched or nothing.

But I just earned the respect, you know what I'm saying, to be able to do that. So that's why the store thing was never a big deal for me. So I just started, you know what I mean, with $60 I got from my pops, I think. I think my old man did send me some money when I was in prison. So back to the tattoos then. How much are you paying first off to get a tattoo in prison? This whole sleeve was probably $125. That's like the cheapest tattoo anyone will ever get in their life. In their life. And it's good work. So what are they using for the needles? What are they using for the needles? So we had guitars.

So they got a guitar string. They had like a D guitar string. How do they make the gun? And then when they, well, they would take the clippers apart, take the motor out of the clippers and then that center spins. So all you have to do is send that off so that it flips around this way. So you got to put a center on there that makes it spin differently. And that makes the needle go up and down. And then they just attach that to whatever pin. And then you got a barrel that that needle goes through that pin that holds it in there. And

and they make ink out of soot but uh i think we had ink that was calligraphy ink because they had art programs and stuff so they had calligraphy ink they actually had colors too but i didn't want color was this your first tattoo ever no um i had like i had a few things like this was on me this right here was actually a tribal band um i think i had my leg done did you have to get any touched up when you got

out no I haven't had any of this touch man I kind of want to they look good they look good yeah it's still hung out dude and that shit's been there for 15 years man wow now um so you started at the penitentiary do you get to go to lower security or yes I'm at the penitentiary two and a half years and at that point you know when I see my counselor at one point or another so here's another story I want to tell you about first step before we do that before we leave the penitentiary yeah yeah yeah

So I'm in the penitentiary and I'm in J Block. Let me get a drink of water here. While I'm in J Block, they send this motherfucker in my cell. You gotta get the water first. You're gonna love this. They send this motherfucker in my cell, bro. He comes in, he's got a military number 001. What's your crime? Selling Hummers. I said, how the fuck are you selling Hummers for the U.S. military? Selling Hummers, bro. The government's selling Hummers. So whatever, he's living with me.

He's always in the bunk. He's always reading. He ain't got shit. I feed him a few times, whatever. I get him some shoes. I fucking give him some food. You know what I'm saying? I'm a good white dude. This is what we do. So one night we're laying in the fuck cell and it's a fucking Victoria's Secret lingerie shit on the TV. And I got a TV cell, bro. So I can sit right here and look out the window. Out the window. And right there's my TV. So he's in the bunk reading books.

This is like pornography on the TV, bitch. You're in the bunk. At a USP, too. What's wrong with you? So I say something to him. He gets down. He watches it from one commercial to the next. Gets back in the bunk. A couple days goes by, whatever. He gets commissary. I remember bringing his commissary in. Cool. Locks his commissary up. It's like a day later or something. I'm on the yard and they're like, folks, he's a pedophile.

I'm like, are you fucking serious? They're like, dude, he's a pedophile. So at this point, I got to smash this dude. This is mandatory. Like, I can't just, whatever. So I'm rolling back to the block. I'm ready to beat the fucking brakes off this dude. He's already checked in. So you knew you had to do that. Yes. Even though you didn't run. Oh, dude, there was no fucking way around it. There was no way around it. Like, I was in the politics. I was in the politics at this prison. I was part of the politics. So I already knew what had to happen. This is my responsibility. Can't nobody else do that.

anyway so i'm gonna kill him like you're fucking you're fucking dead bro like how dare you anyways he checks in so when he checks in i can't touch him but i rob him i take all of his shit i take the boot i beat the lock right off i take every fucking 150 dollars with the commissary just gotten everything i gave him that shit's mine take all that shit back put him a bag about this big outside the door for here you go here's the shit fuck him two days later the ceo and the counselor whatever them people to pull you in the back they pull me in the back two of them he says uh

"Folks, what's up with that inmate that checked in yesterday, your cellie?" I was like, "You motherfuckers know what's up with him. Why you even put him in my cell?" This motherfucker has the balls to tell me. He said, "I bet," this is what I'm talking to him, "I bet him $25 that that dude wouldn't last 24 hours in your cell." I said, "You're telling me you put a pedophile in my cell on a bet?" He said, "Yeah, and you lost."

I was like, dude, I'm so fucking mad sitting there. I'm like, you're playing with my fucking life, bro. Because I was on my way back to fuck him up. If I would have smashed his head in or killed him or something, then what would you have done to me? You would have put me in prison longer. And it's on a bet that you motherfuckers made that are supposed to be the people taking care of us. I said, you don't put nobody else in my fucking cell. I said, the first person that comes to my cell is getting a bloody fucking nose from now on out.

And then I never put anybody else in my cell again. Did you check his paperwork when he got in? No, see, that was the thing, man. I was fucked up about where we were. It wasn't like that. Like, I've been trying to figure out how to tell you about the paperwork because there was no paperwork. Some places are like that, though. Right. So, like, I don't remember there being paperwork. So, what was it? Just people taking their word and guards would report? Yes. And also, there would be, like, if motherfuckers got sent from another prison, right?

And we could find out what they did on that yard. We would find that out as soon as possible.

And so if you were a check-in, you rip somebody off, you were such and such at this yard, there's no way you're going to walk this line. I wonder who created the whole paperwork thing. Like who sat down one day and they were like, oh, we're going to start this process of checking paperwork and this and that. Like, I wonder where it stemmed from. I don't know where it stems from either. But if I had to guess, I would say it comes from good motherfuckers not wanting to be around pieces of shit. Now, how did people find out this guy was a sex offender?

I don't know. But they came to you and they said, Hey, you guys, that's all it took. Now, if you didn't handle it, like I'm getting smashed, then they're smashing. Absolutely. Even though you didn't run with them or anything. Absolutely. That's great. Oh yeah. The white boys had to beat up the white boys just for politics. So here's another time when I had a celly and my celly was in the kitchen and they were handing out like scones or some shit that everybody came for in the morning. And the CEO says something about, Oh, it's busy in here. And this little white boy says, no, that's just because some people are coming twice.

Black dude beside him says, oh, you snitching ass motherfucker, snitching ass motherfucker. Just because he said that out loud. This boy comes back to the unit fucking crying, bro. He's crying because he knows it's time. It's go time. Something's going to happen to you. You're being called a snitch on the main line. Something's going to happen to you. Anyway, so we got to get it settled. I got to talk to this guy. Now we got to talk because this is my celly and I like this kid. He's a young kid on a robbery. He's like fucking 19 or 20 years old. You don't know shit. You know, what he did was just pure ignorance.

So we got to get all this shit settled and we can't let any of the black dudes fight the white dudes. That's like a main thing in a prison line. White and black can't fight because if white and black fights, it's a riot and then everything's locked down. There's no visits. There's no wrecks. There's no GED. There's no food. You're getting a fucking bag in your door. You don't want lockdowns.

So the first thing you're doing is politicking to the point that a white man takes care of the white man's shit, black man takes care of the black man's shit, Mexican takes care of the Mexican, Indian, whatever.

Because if it comes down to two races clashing, the whole prison goes fucking crazy. That was the thing where I was talking about me and Red and they pulled us down. So that was a white dude running around in one unit, inward, inward, inward, get stabbed three or four times where like five gangs jumped him. It wasn't just a one-on-one shit. And we were locked down for like 14 days. Yeah, they'd lock you in your cell. They're feeding you bag lunches, right? Dude, I didn't take a shower for a week.

Like me and my celly were putting a sheet up and taking a fucking shower in a box by the sink. At least you had the TV though outside. Yes. Oh, no, that wasn't on. That wasn't on. Oh, that one. No, no, that one. No, that's going off. Yeah, you don't get that. Because then that's like just me and the other six people, not everybody. Were sex offenders allowed to walk this compound? No, absolutely not.

So why does the prison even put them into the unit? Like, I don't understand. Why not just send them somewhere else? It doesn't make sense. Well, you know, I guess the part about that is I remember when I first got to the penitentiary and we were in R&D, they asked me, do you want to walk the line? Is there anyone here you're scared of? Or do you know what you're doing? Do you want to go to protective custody? Are you sure you've never been to prison? You don't want to go to protective custody? And that's stupid. It's just the whole. Right, right. So I guess at that point, these guys are like,

You know, I'll take my chances. You know what I'm saying? I don't know. I don't know what they're thinking. But yeah, why would they even put them there? Like, why would you even, when you know, I remember when I first started going to jail, they would send a sex offender into the unit with a pillow. A pillow. A pillow. So that was marking him straight off the top.

So everybody else that came in was normal motherfuckers. Why the fuck would they do that? Because when they dressed them out downstairs, they already knew they was pedophiles. Yeah. And when they dressed them out, they gave them a pillow. So these are like corrupt guards that wanted to... I don't know about corrupt. I don't know about corrupt. About corrupt.

From that standpoint. Yes. From a professional standpoint. Yeah. So then they would get fucked up and we would take their pillow. Dude, guards look at like, they're disgusted. Like, cause they looked at me. Like I tell a story all the time that they looked at me as a sex offender and some guards would like give me a dirty look. And then some inmates would have to say he's straight. Like he's good. Dude, that's hard. That's gotta be hard to have that. One of the things I've always been scared of the most was being, uh,

uh, falsely accused of some child molestation and having to go to prison for that. Yeah. Like that would be scary shit. So just someone looking at you and even thinking that has to be fucking tough. Dude, I am so like cautious. Like I don't want anyone like sending me links or anything. Cause I, I've met guys in prison. They're like, Oh, you know, like,

someone sent me something and I had it, but then come to find out what the feds aren't going to prosecute you for that. It's like, if you have like boatloads and you're doing this, you're doing that, you're sending text messages. But like, I'm always like very hesitant, like about any of that. Right. Like where does them links even fucking come from? Yeah. And like, if I'm talking to a girl, like you gotta be 18, like this and that, like I'm not,

getting jammed up in any of that shit whatsoever. How old are you now? I'm 27. That's what's up. So you go to a medium or a low or what happens? So two and a half years from there, they sent me to Butner. So Butner's where Larry Flint was. The medical joint. That's where Larry Flint was. You know where Larry Flint was? No, but that's where Madoff was at one point. Yes. Yeah, Madoff was there. So Larry Flint was the guy that started Hustler Magazine back in the 70s. So anyways, he was there.

there so that place was fucking gravy so when I went there it's the RDAP program which was a program oh you got into RDAP yeah bro great program man it's one of the best things about the feds for me no shit yeah anyone that goes to prison needs to make sure they say on their PSI they have drug use or alcohol use it's definitely helpful so here's the thing I had a robbery I couldn't get to two years oh but

But I didn't care because they had a weight pile. Okay. That's all I wanted, bro. I just want to work out. I want to get smart. I want to get sharp. I want to get my body right. Okay. So that's what I did. I went there and they put me in a program. It was a nine month program.

uh people call it snitching uh because you're in that that therapeutic community where you have to hold each other accountable for what you're doing right and wrong you know i mean so if you're a fucking liar i'm gonna call you out for being a fucking liar and i do that to this day ask my boys if you fucking lie to me i'm gonna call you a fucking liar to your face i don't like them the monkeys because that's you know they're part of the channel they're part of they're part of my channel they're the monkeys man yeah it's just easier i guess um

Where were we? You were talking about snitching and that program. So when you're in there, you're kind of holding each other accountable, but you're focusing on what you're doing. So once I sat there for like two weeks and you're sitting in these fucking classes, like three hours a day and people were telling on each other and you've got this mindset of this penitentiary and you're, you know what I mean? Shit isn't the same. Like there's, there's pedophiles walking the line and you, they, they test you because you're in this program.

Can you deal with these motherfuckers? Because in the real world, you're going to have to deal with these. That's kind of how it works. So you got to deal with it. So anyways, I'm sitting there for a while and I start watching people's body language. I started learning from the body language and I start seeing what they're talking about. I start seeing the things and I like it. Then I got to make a decision that I'm either going to fuck up two or three times so I can stay there longer for the weight pile and then get kicked out.

Or I'm going to conquer this motherfucker and I'm going to become a peer assistant, which peer assistant stays behind, gets paid $50 a month and you help teach classes for either afternoon or morning. So before that, the woman that ran the place when I was in the second phase of the program loved me so much she made me a clerk. So like I'm like teacher's pet at this point, bro. She loves me.

So I clerk for her. I clean up all the offices. All the fucking people love me in there. We graduate. I become a peer assistant. I get to stay there. But the program is just a good thing because it focuses on what you think. It focuses on like she called me an asshole and now I'm going to smack her in the face. But what happened right there? She hurt your feelings. There's an action that creates an emotion that creates an action.

So anyways, it just taught me how to think a little bit instead of just instantly responding. It helped you mature in a way. Yes. And it helped me to be accountable for what I'd done wrong. Like they said, when they sit through them points and ask you that to, to talk about the people you hurt, to talk about how much money you spent, to talk about like, that's, it's not easy. Like we want to leave that shit in our past. We don't want to talk about that shit.

You know what I mean? We don't want to be accountable for the people we hurt. Nobody wants to face that shit. But it took you going through all that shit to come to that realization. For sure. I didn't even know what the fuck they were talking about when I got there. Like, I didn't know. Like, I was a liar. I was a thief. I was...

whatever bro fucking smack you in the face in a minute just for whatever and I'm not a violent person you know I'm saying I don't beat people up I'm not a fighter I'm a big guy but I'm not a fighter I just don't like to fight I don't like to beat people up some people love that shit it's just not me but like a giant the front right and I am I'm a big fucking teddy bear man but it's the same time when I when I snap it's a whole different person you know I'm saying it's just like when

When I'm screaming and my fucking ears, my eyes are welling up, my ears are burning, and that's a different person, and I just don't want to be that person. You know what I'm saying? So this kind of taught me to not be that. It taught me to respond by thinking and sit back for a minute. Don't just fucking send that instant text or that fuck you. Think about it for a second, man, because you might be doing something else. Were there ever any moments where you almost,

almost tried drugs again while you're in prison or oh yeah i did heroin when i was in prison oh you did smoke weed while i was in prison while i was in the penitentiary i did but once you got it was really hard to get and the weed that i got was stuck in this dude's asshole so long it smelled like shit dead ass bro so super fucking good weed right you could smell the weed was really good weed

But he kept it in his butt, bro. Kept it in his butt and it smelled like poop. That's crazy. And we rolled it up, bro. Smoked it. We didn't give a fuck. $20 for about three little fucking little joint about that big. Put it in the end of a pin, hit that shit twice and fucking ripped.

But after that, you stopped doing drugs? Yeah, so I didn't do anything once I got into the program. And there was really no drugs there that I knew of anyways. And you've been clean ever since? No, fuck no. He fell off the bandwagon. Oh, yeah, bro. Yeah. So I got out of prison and hooked up with the chick. What year did you get out? 2009. And how old are you? March, 33. You're 33 years old. Yeah.

33. So I come home and I'm fucking ready, bro. Ready for what? I'm a shining light. Like everywhere I go, I'm a fucking beam of light. Everybody knows I'm there just because I'm living. I'm ready to live. Second chance at life. Yes. You know, everybody calls it the glow. When you come home, you've got that glow, bro. And I had that glow. Everything around me glue. So I hooked up with this chick and we moved in together. I don't even know how I started drinking. Like she was a drinker. I didn't want to drink her party. I didn't want to do none of that shit.

And she drank. So I ended up starting to drink a little bit. And I started smoking a little weed. And then I got to doing suboxone and shit.

And shit just went crazy from there. Next thing you know, I'm seeing a doctor and I'm getting fucking Dilaudid's by the millions. Not the millions. But anyways, I end up with a doctor that I'm with for five years after that. That prescribes me 180 methadone a month. She prescribes me 180 Dilaudid fours a month. And she describes me 90 Klonopin or some shit like that every month. So you're back to right where you started before prison. Yeah. Are you committing crime? Worse though. Are you committing crime or are you just? Yeah.

So I'm working a lot. Sorry, bro. You're kidding. Turn this motherfucker off. That's probably my boy Adam. And he'll send 75 fucking taps. What's up, Adam? He's like, I told him to do that. Just send me one paragraph. Anyways, where were we? About if you were committing crime. So I'm thinking, let's see, I'm working. I'm working every day because I remember I'm getting high. And I'm also, I'm selling Suboxone. I'm getting Suboxone's pretty cheap.

I think I'm getting them for five bucks a piece. I'm buying 100 at a time. I'm selling them for 20 a piece. So I got a stack of cash. You know what I mean? I don't care. But I'm also using them.

So that goes by for a while. Me and her split up. I move into a place and I fucking crash, bro. Like I absolutely crash. I'm seeing this doctor and every time I get these dilaudids, I'm shooting them up. At this point, I've been using needles before I went to prison. So then when I'm using needles at this point too. So yeah, every time I get my script, I'm just taking all these fucking drugs and I'm melting away in my house by myself. Me and her split up. I got my own spot up in Steven City I'm tattooing out of.

What about the kids though? Like where are the kids? Oh, the kids are with my mom or with their grandmother. So you're still not being there as a parent? Yeah, well, I didn't have enough room for them when I was sober and I think their grandmother sat around and waited for me to fuck up because the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. And what I had always done was what I did again.

And she knew that was going to happen. So that's where I went and I did it again. And I fucking sat in that house for two or three years and just melted away to nothing. Do you think that wouldn't have happened if you had a support system? Like instead of someone saying, we know you're going to fuck up, someone being there for you when you fucked up to help you along the way? Oh, sure, man. Yeah.

Yeah, I guess somebody... You know what, though, man? No. I can't say that for me because I'm a stubborn motherfucker. I'm stubborn, too. Man, if I want to do something, bro, I'm going to do it. And that's my saying. I tell everybody, they're like, what are you going to do today? I say, I do what I want because I do what I want. So do you ever get clean after that? Yeah, so...

What happens? I'm taking so many Xanaxes. I go into the doctor's one time and she cuts me off because I'm not even on Xanaxes. And she's like, you got 450 milligrams. 450 is how much you have in your body and the cutoff's 50. So you're like eight times over fucked up. So she cuts me off. I'm like, you got to give me one more script. So she gives me one more script. Now this is 180 Dilaudid K4s on a Friday morning at nine o'clock. I fill them.

I shoot up every fucking one of them pills before 5 a.m. on Sunday morning. I don't even know how I did it. Like, my tolerance was so fucking high from eating so many methadone that I shot all them pills right in my fucking arm, bro. And like 9 o'clock on Sunday morning, I'm like, where's all my pills? Like, I'm out. I don't take a methadone again. Last script. Anyway, so by then I caught another charge for stealing. What was that for? I don't know.

Dude, I got 10 fucking felonies. So I can't even remember which one was which. So you got charged again. Yes, I got another charge for stealing. But do you go back to jail or no? What was this one for? Oh, this was stealing at Kohl's. I was high as fuck on Xanax. I went in there and bought a pair of shoes. Bought a pair of shoes, stole some other shit. No, I wore the shoes out. And the dude that was security was one of my old POs or some shit. So as soon as I walked in, he had his eyes on me. Yeah, so boom, busted me, took me to jail.

um what'd i get out of that i got a year you did a year i don't even know how i got a year like oh i got a good lawyer i paid a fuck a bunch of money to basler dude my brain's fucked up i smoke a lot of weed but anyways uh so i got three months inside i had to do 90 days inside and then i got nine months of home monitoring so i did that the whole time i'm on home monitoring i got to take the piss that's every friday i'm smoking pot everyday

Don't even care. Fuck your piss test. I'm passing a piss test the same way I did for 20 years. I've been cheating my whole life. So I get through that. And then I had to do like three years of paper, two years of paper. And I was successful. No, I fucked up one time and probation. I got two weeks. I did two weeks, got out. That was it. That's been about three, four years ago. And you've been good. Yeah, I've been good.

I mean I drink I smoke but I don't do no pills. What like flipped the switch though? Like what changed? Like you literally did a five-year bid get out you go back to it. I overdosed I said I overdosed when I went in for the two weeks I got got a hold of some fentanyl we went to Baltimore I've been taking Xanaxes when I take Xanaxes bro my brain don't work but my body keeps going so like my body's driving a car and my brain don't even know what's going on I'm wrecking and crashing and I just keep moving

So anyways, we get some fentanyl. We get 10 of them. And I think I remember at this point, I was just like, I don't even give a fuck. I think about it's like, you know, I don't even fucking care. I put the whole pill right in the spoon. Bam, shot it. And my step pops found me fucked up in my room somehow fucking smashed out, called the emergency room, wherever they come Narcan to fuck out of me. I woke up in jail. Yep. And that's when I did the two weeks. They gave me a really good pro bono lawyer. It's awesome.

So when I got in there, I was supposed to be in there for like three months. And then when I got the pro bono, he got us sent back to like two weeks and got me out in two weeks. So I think that was it, man. I think, uh,

Because my moms and them told my kids, man, and that kind of shit right there fucked me up. I don't want them to hear that about me. Did you realize... My girl fucked my girl up, man. Like, you know, fuck my girl up. Fuck all my people up. Like, what is he doing? Did you realize, like, the value of your life at that point? Because, like, a lot of people go through what you've been through and they don't make it. Like, they overdose and they die. Did that hit a switch for you at all? I guess it does, man. I guess it does because it's...

Did it give me a new I like this just like this plain fucking thing you're going to see in a movie that says the light turns on. No, I don't think that's what happened. But there is a realization inside of me that says I don't want to do that. I don't want to be that. And then my dad dies. So with that happening and my dad dying all within pretty close of each other, I started thinking about legacy.

And what we leave behind, like what's your funeral going to look like, Ian? You die right now, who's going to be at your funeral? How many people? I got you. Right? I'll be there, bro. But I'm just saying, when I think about that, and I think about the 17 people that was there at my dad's funeral, and the four of them that really gave a fuck about him, and the story that was told that didn't include me or my sister, my half-sister, uh,

I don't want that to be me. It makes you think. It does. And I also heard recently that they legalized being able to be buried in a Viking ship. So you want to be in a Viking ship. So you can put a Viking ship, be buried in that, push that bitch out to sea, catch that motherfucker on fire and be sunk into the ocean, bro.

best ending YouTube video ever. So that's what you want to do? That's what I want to do. I want to build it myself. I want to be put in it. I want to be sent on the fucking ocean and sank to the bottom. Let the fish eat me. So the last three years, what have you been able to do, accomplish to rebuild your life? Oh man. So around the time of all that right there happening, I was working at a place called Shockey's where they build shit. I fucking hated it. Um,

but the jail got me that job so I worked there for a while I'm a great carpenter so I can build fucking anything I can do anything with my hands so I'm building I'm running shit for there for a while until that happened and then when that happened that's when that was the end of that job so

So I got out and started working for a buddy of mine that I've known for years that runs a siding company. He paid me really well. I built shit up from there. I worked every single day. I worked five days a week with him, and then I tattooed on Saturdays and Sundays. So you're grinding. I'm grinding every day for two years. I'm putting money back. I'm buying a fucking truck. I got a car. I got a truck. I got a bike. You know what I'm saying? I bought all this shit that I wanted. I got, you know, 10 grand put back. I'm doing, I'm killing it.

And then last year is when I decided to fully tattoo for myself full time. I got tired of being on 40 foot ladders. I got tired of walking through mud. I just got tired of banging nails. I got carpal tunnel in both hands. That shit hurts. So I wanted to tattoo full time. So that's what I've been doing for the last year, man. I've been doing pretty good. You know what I'm saying? I'm not rich, but I get by. I'm happy doing what I want, which is way more important to me than the money.

That's all that matters. Way more important. I don't give a fuck about the money as much as I do liking the person that I'm working on, enjoying the art that I'm doing, working in my own house with my own music on, the air conditioner to how cool I want it, the heat on if I want it. Sometimes it's not always about the money. It's about what makes you happy. I mean, look at all the big...

successful entrepreneurs that will say, I would rather work 100 hours a week and make 50 grand a year for myself than work 40 hours a week and make 200,000 for someone else. It's about your happiness and what you're doing. Me doing this now, the podcast and the social media stuff, it gives me a lot more free time. I've just been thinking lately because if I'm seeing someone or hanging out with friends or whatever, when I was working before for someone else,

I couldn't just say, oh, it's Friday night. I'm not going to finish what I'm doing. I'm going to go hang out with some friends. I couldn't do that before. Now I have like this freedom. I can plan my days, plan my schedule. Like that to me is, that's invaluable right there. It is. Cancel if you want to. So what's like your reasoning for coming on the show today? You reached out to me. I did. You've been seeing what we've been doing. Man, I don't know. Like you just started hitting my feed. And when I seen people sharing like...

how they had changed their life for the better and being able to try to put that back out there to the world, I guess that's where I'm at, man, is because my old man was so negative and all that shit right there that I battle on a daily basis. I want to give it out there to the world because when I'm around other people and we're chilling and having fun, man, I like to make people laugh and people laugh and we kick it. And that's just the way I want the world to be. I mean, let's laugh. Fuck all this division and everybody worried about

All this shit that's just everything. You know what I'm saying? I just want to give people something to laugh about. Look at something stupid that we're doing. Follow a little something that we're doing and laugh. You know what I mean? Because that's what it is. It's funny.

That's awesome, man. And what would you say is like your message to the world? Laugh a lot, dude. You know what I'm saying? But also get up and grind, bro. You're not going to have shit laying in bed. You're not going to have shit laying in bed. That's seven to 12 that you're watching some dumb ass shit on TV and then you're sleeping till 10 in the morning. Get up at six and grind till 10.

You know what I'm saying? Get up and grind, bro. You can't make nothing laying in bed. Well, Jamie, thank you for coming on the show, man. I'm glad like you were able to see our stuff, relate to it and then reach out. That's like our goal. Where could people find you at? What do you want to send them to? Yeah, yeah. So first of all, I got a Facebook and a Instagram that's just under Jamie Foltz.

so uh you look up the facebook it's just j-a-m-i-e-f-o-l-t-z and then on instagram it's underscore jamie underscore folks and then also i got a youtube channel called spanking monkeys it's like if yeah man it's awesome dude so spanking monkey 1606 is how you're gonna search it you can put that in google you can put it in youtube send you straight to our channel and like say man it's silliness you know i mean that's what we do i'm a fucking superhero

dude white man bro superhero superhero that's awesome facts and i got a super villain and all that shit man dude you walked in here i knew this episode was gonna be that's what's up you got a good personality you got like that you got that look to you man that's what's up man i appreciate it i wish you the best thank you for coming on the show oh yeah yeah and this is awesome dude what you got going on here is great bro like i dig it i watch it all the time man i see you pop up i'm like what's he doing today man yeah dude it's awesome well you got a new friend now jamie definitely happy for you