Amad on song as United thrash Everton
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It's sexy! For Manchester United! It's his second of the afternoon. Running away with the points now. Manchester United really enjoying themselves now.

This is Talk The Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. We are back, we have a full house to react to a 4-0 victory over Everton in the Premier League. What a way to start at Old Trafford in the English top flight for Ruben Amorim. We'll also preview what looks like the first big test for the new Manchester United head coach away to Arsenal this week and there's more reaction to the ticket price rises that were announced last week as well.

But first of all, smiling faces looking at me. Laurie, you've got a lovely backdrop there. It looks very festive. Yes, well, I'm at Hotel Football awaiting Ruben Amarin's press conference, which is taking place at Old Trafford, unusually today for different reasons. But yes, awaiting his pre-Arsenal press conference. And I thought, why not step into our favourite venue adjacent to it, a bit of Hotel Football and Old Trafford in the background and snowflakes on the windows as decoration.

Looks great, mate. And Andy, you're in bed, are you? I'm in a hotel in London, mate. United We Stand's been put forward to be the finalist in the Football Supporters Association Awards, so going to the ceremony tonight. It's no wonder with some of the interviews you get in.

I thought he'd be the hound on with that one so fair play to you Ian I interviewed Sir Jim Ratcliffe the other day I was pretty annoyed on Wednesday morning and I felt that he should speak to me and I

I sat with him and I spoke to him for 36 minutes and I made my feelings very clear. You'd probably guess what my feelings are on the ticket prices because we had a huge feedback to this very podcast about it. I felt it was important to get in front of him and look him in the eye and speak on a range of subjects. I think once a year I'll try and do it for something like this for United We Stand. I do a lot of my best stuff for the Athletic but I think once a year for United We Stand

It is important. And I lost my weekend writing it. It's 4,000 words. It's out of the weekend. That beats one of Carl's tactical analysis, that, 4,000 words. Getting cheeky, aren't you? He's not wrong. He's not wrong. No, it's a great...

It's a great interview, Gert, and I look forward to picking up a copy. And you could have done 4,000 words on Manchester United after that resounding 4-0 win over Everton. I mean, what a way to mark a change when you do something that the previous manager could never do. Yeah, yeah. Sunday got good, I will say. I'm not going to say it was good. The first 25 minutes, first 30 minutes, Amren oscillated between...

Two reactions. One is throwing his hands up in the air as Manchester United lost the ball too easily. And the other one is doing that crouch down look where he's looking for something. We'll figure it out eventually. But once United got that first goal due to a good set piece routine put together by Carlos Fernandez, I believe. I can confirm that, I think. And helped along the way by Jared Brentwood. Everything clicked into place.

Yeah, he was getting the congratulation on the Manchester United bench after that goal. And like we said, was it the last podcast or maybe the one before? He seems to be the coach who is responsible for set pieces. He's working on the routines during the warm-up and he also steps forward each time Manchester United have a set piece as well. But yeah, a 4-0 win. It's Manchester United's biggest margin of victory in the Premier League, Laurie, since the opening day last

of the season back in August 2021 when they beat Leeds 5-1. I predicted that scoreline, didn't I? Remember? That's one thing that I got right. I don't remember. When was that? Okay, great. Let's move on. That was the first thing I've got right and the last thing I've got right in a long time. Did you actually predict 4-0, did you? No, no, not 4-0. The 5-1. You predicted 5-1. You predicted 5-1 against Leeds. I'm harking back to that. It's still going on about that. It's not a trip to Portugal. It's the 5-1 against Leeds that I predicted that I hark on about.

No wonder I didn't remember it. I thought you meant a predicted 4-0. No, no, no. Anyway, moving on. Sorry, sorry. It was good, wasn't it? It was great. And I mean, I sort of said afterwards that it was a bit of a statement win and maybe that wasn't

Maybe that was a bit excitable because it's only Everton. I know you're wincing, I know, I know. But what I meant by it was the fact that it was probably the thing that Eriksenhaag never got past and was always a bit of a stick to beating with that United never really won games emphatically, it felt like. There was maybe one or two, but obviously there was never a 4-0, a four-goal margin win and five goals. That was the sort of mystical number that Ole Gunnar Solskjaer managed to crack quite a few times, scoring five goals in a game. It just felt like

In his first game. He did the same sort of thing what Amarin's done here. So you just sort of think, okay, that sort of sets the tone a bit for hopefully the kind of football that United will play. And I know Edvin helped them along. I know it wasn't ideal and perfect, but they go after goals and once they smell blood, it feels like they can keep going. And I think that's really vital for him at the start of his tenure so that players...

they already seem like they're buying into it right but you've got to sustain that it's easy to buy into the new guy who's doing things differently than the old coach but to sustain it needs these kind of results to make players go okay I'm going to trust what he's saying here believe in him I am going to work hard because the goals came you know a couple of them at least from pressing Ahmad brilliant but it comes from the stuff that they kind of weren't really doing under Everton Haag whether that's because they couldn't or didn't understand

or the player personnel selected. So that's why I think it was a bit of a significant victory. Andy, Laurie said it there, Ahmad brilliant. Yeah, he's been one of the best players, hasn't he? Wonderful to see. It was said to me at the start of the season, Ahmad's not going to be the type of player that wins you the league title. And I think that was a suggestion that he's good, but he's not absolute elite. But I think he's playing really, really well. He's exciting to watch and

Manchester United have lacked that excitement. The team has not scored enough goals. So to watch him yesterday, and I'm sure we'll talk about the other players, but Xerxe was the one who really stood out for me. You can see I'm at a work in progress. In the first half, he didn't quite catch a ball right and he blew a finish. But his pass for Rashford for the third was beautiful. And what I really like about him is how he closes players down when he's out of possession. That led to a goal.

and he's making his place in the starting line-up. He's making it his own. It's wonderful to see. Carl, this boy makes you smile as well, doesn't he? Yes, he does. You should do the victory lap here, Carl. Come on, this was your big call a few years ago. Yeah, never mind 5-1 predictions three and a half years ago. I knew this one. I knew it would be good. I knew it could come good. Even through the so-so loan at Rangers, I went, no, he's good. He's good. He's good. There was the question, obviously, about his size.

And I was surprised that Amarin's been using a right wing back recently. But as Andy said, one thing that's been really, really impressive is how hard he's working out of possession. He's a professional pest. So he pressures Jared for the second goal, United score. And then the fourth goal is him picking the pocket of Tarkovsky. And he just goes for it. I think the partnership he's got with Masraoui at right centre back is really useful as well. Because if a player does manage to beat Ahmad, you've got Masraoui, who is a

Pretty solid 1v1 defender. And he can lock things down as well. The thing about Ahmad is the way he receives the ball and he can wriggle through tight areas is...

probably one of the best at United at this point in time. There were two or three times we've seen this season where a man gets into final third and whereas perhaps Segar Nacho and Rashford might lose it running down a blind corridor, he's able to stop, spin, get a pass off. Some of these passes do catch teammates by surprise. We saw in the community shield where Mount just wasn't ready, didn't expect the pass to come along.

But it's just really impressive. There was a moment just after the third goal that was scored where Rashford, Rashford's been overly keen to play with a man. We've seen this three or three times. Bruno likes playing with him and every time a man gets on the ball, Rashford sort of sprints over because he's like, oh, the ball's going to come.

And so just after the third goal, Ahmad's on the ball, right half space, and Rashford is sprinting full pace on the overlap. And as he gets close to Ahmad, Ahmad just sticks his hand out, going, slow down. He's like, slow down, mate. We're not quite at the final third. Well, I can just give you the ball in the overlap. He spins around, passes it back into midfield, and it's very much to Rashford like, I will get you the ball. Don't worry about that. So the fact that he's 22, 23, you know,

hasn't got 100 appearances for United under his belt yet and he can already help dictate an attack that isn't quite there yet very very pleasing very pleasing two goals for Xerxe two goals for Rashid but Sunday was the image show yeah I see that and obviously you saying that you thought it could come good was it was a brilliant shout but didn't you say you wanted Bruno Fernandes off corners how did the first come back yeah

All right. Full disclosure. When Bruno lost this corner in, I'm sat next to Critch. I'm like, oh, why have you done that? That's why.

Very nice, very nice. I don't know why Everton decided to leave Marcus Rashford completely unmarked on the edge of the box, but I'm grateful to it. Yeah, pleasantly surprised by that goal. Definitely, yeah. It's nice to see Manchester United scoring from set pieces, especially because the start to the game that you mentioned before was a little bit of a struggle. Everton were on top and finding a way to make the breakthrough from a set piece like that.

even if the formation and the tactics are not working perfectly in open play, that's another way to do it and it's hugely encouraging as well.

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Let's talk about that front three sort of situation and more accurately the number nine. Amarin gave away in his pre-match interviews that Joshua Xerxe was going to play as the nine and not in behind with Rashford further forward, which caused a little bit of surprise, but

But it worked. Tom, we read out his email last week questioning Xerxe. He's got back in touch, said in fairness and for balance, he had a good game today and I hope he can keep it up. Last week, I think he'd ended his Manchester United career. But it was a very important performance that from Xerxe, Laurie, wasn't it? Yes, and I think it was really interesting what Amrin said about why he chose him after the game in terms of

wanting to bring the Everton defenders into awkward areas for them. So obviously he's dropping deeper and linking play. I mean, that pass for the third goal, right? The Rashford one. There's so many goals that were kind of struggling. Me and Kyle are like, which one was that? It's a rare occasion. But I thought that, I mean, that pass was inspired. There was a flick as well at a different point. So he's obviously got those really,

crafted technical touches I suppose we were wondering what his exact purpose in the team would be and I suppose this is one solution to it you know the fact that you've got then number 10s in behind that will run beyond so you've got Rashford you know being able to run from deeper

And I guess it would be interesting who he does play him with, because I mean, I'm not sure exactly how many different configurations of front threes he's done, if you also include maybe that training game that he kind of was testing a few things out with, where Ahmad was the number 10. But as you say, you know, he's been the wing back since that point.

So he's obviously having a look at different ways of combining players and for different matches. And I thought it was really interesting that he wanted to take Hoyland out of the firing line, I guess. Because you sort of think, why would you take a guy out that's in such hot form? And would he be annoyed about that? Well, he didn't even come on, did he? I mean, you could also say he's resting in for the Arsenal game, which maybe he feels like...

I mean, Gabriel and Saliba are defenders that do like a physical tussle though. So is he preparing him for that? You sort of wonder whether Xerxe would actually bring them into uncomfortable areas. Because I mean, Gabriel certainly likes to get touch tight, doesn't he? There was that game at Old Trafford a couple of years ago where he got booked and nearly got sent off. He should have really got sent off for fouling. Hoyland on his debut, wasn't it? Away at Arsenal. There was that too, yeah. Trying to take on Gabriel when it should have been a penalty. So, okay, I wonder...

okay, let's see who he picks. But this is, I mean, if we're guessing, okay, maybe we're not as informed as opponent coaches, but, you know, I'm sure they'll be kind of wondering. I mean, Kieran McKenna said he was wondering when the team sheet dropped. So this is all part of it, I guess, you know, as well as keeping the team fresh, as well as him being able to find out about his own players, it keeps the opponents guessing. And we're only three games in, I'm sure we'll have an idealised 11. But yeah, I thought it was a really interesting rotation and it feels like the team's got more

more potential now different positions Rashford sort of touched on that didn't he after the game yeah it's

full of promise I suppose. Yeah more options as well Andy I mean I looked at the bench that's the strongest Manchester United bench for quite some time. Bayern, Deer, Maguire, Shaw, Malasia, Anthony, Ugarte, Mount, Hoyland, Garnaccio was the bench for the Everton game all first team players I can't remember when that was last the case. Christian Eriksen not in the squad when apparently there's no sign of an injury there so that's just rotation but

There's Lenny Yoro and Johnny Evans who are close to fitness as well. So we're actually getting to the point where first team footballers are going to be left out of the squad because they've got too many players, which it feels like years since that's happened almost. Yeah.

It is, yes. And I'm penny for the thoughts of Eric Ten Haag watching this thinking, why could I not have so few injuries? It's good for Manchester United. It's lovely to be seeing Malasia and Luke Shaw getting minutes, Harry Maguire coming back because he'd been out since the start of October. What I think the new manager's doing is giving pretty much everybody a chance, although he doesn't seem to be...

pondering too much on the older players, which maybe is a reason why Christian Eriksen had not featured. Hoyland, you know, he did well against Bodo Glimt the other night. The manager's got very clear ideas, even if it goes against the grain of what fans want. So Xerxe's stock rose significantly after his performance against Everton. I thought he started the game really well between the lines. You can see that...

he can have a role in a certain type of formation because it has been a struggle for him we spoke to him after the first game Fulham when he scored and then it all went quiet so that was his best game for Manchester United first off

and second half is involved in goals. And it just quietens people down coming up to you going, who on earth sanctioned that move for Xerxe? And when you were talking about Ahmad earlier on, Carl, I'm thinking all those people saying, who on earth sanctioned that move for Ahmad? Maybe they've changed their phone because they've all gone quiet as well. And I suppose the manager's got to have...

more of a helicopter view of the whole thing. He knows exactly the type of players that he wants. It was Cobby's first minutes. He's got to be thinking ahead of the next game. So I think you saw that with the substitutions because you know who's going to be missing against Arsenal. Martinez is not going to play. I thought he was a little bit unlucky with that booking. It looks accidental from where I was. So he played 90 minutes against Everton and equally he can plan for the formation. So I think

I'm a bit nervous going to Arsenal because they score an awful lot of goals. They're very strong at home, but then Manchester United become stronger at home. I think we need to touch on the away form. One win so far this season and our next two away games are against Arsenal. And no, City, well, City are a team who used to win matches. They don't win matches anymore. So maybe it's the Arsenal one, which we should be worried about. Oh, and Tottenham as well in the League Cup.

Yeah, it's tough. It is tough, isn't it? The games that are coming, even Nottingham Forest doesn't feel like a gimme, does it, at Old Trafford, considering they're above Manchester United in the table. We've had a couple of questions in about the situation in the squad, Laurie. I know you've written a deal sheet on the Athletic, which people can go and have a look at.

but Patrick says, suddenly there seems to be quite a lot of competition for places in the XI. I think we're three or four, here we go again, Carl. I think we're three or four first team signings away from having a great squad. Left back, left centre back, centre midfield, maybe a striker. So what do you think, Laurie? I mean, certainly if you had those four positions in top quality, then you really are firing, as we just touched on there. The squad feels like it's pretty full. When players are fit, it's...

there's options at least. You could question the standard, you can question the application sometimes, but there are players there that you hope could do good things in this league. Yeah, I mean, I think there's certainly some questions. I mean, the Ahmad point is one for starters. His contract is actually up in the summer. He's got a plus one. So they're in talks at the moment. I'm sure they want to continue for a long time. He said, hasn't he, I want to stay at this club for a long, long time. So I guess it's just...

Hopefully it's just a case of getting the right number and the right length of contract.

Everybody tells me that January is going to be a quiet month for Manchester United. The financial picture is very tight. We've seen again with the latest financial results, the first quarter results that we did a piece on, but the overall financial picture losing hundreds of millions annually. So the idea is that Ruben Amarin kind of works with the squad that he's got and okay, he's obviously going to want players that really fit his

his plans and that can raise the bar and that can stay fit because obviously the players are fit at the moment but I don't I wouldn't be surprised if they break down at some point for all his careful handling there will be another injury this season I can confirm that thank you one thing I found particularly interesting about how Amrin is approaching rotation is he very much seems to be approaching rotation as a form of

injury prevention he's very early with his subs isn't he Carl yeah it was after the Bodo Glimp game and before and after Bodo Glimp game he talked about how you have to rotate the squad he said anyone who plays 90 minutes you can't train for two days

And he sort of made a gesture towards Bruno Fernandes in that Fernandes is a physical freak. But also, so yeah, you don't want to keep pushing these players. Otherwise, they're going to approach the red zone that Wenger used to talk about. I know Andy's talked about how Martinez wasn't likely to last the full 90 minutes because he was booked, he played. I understand Mainu was scheduled to only play 60 minutes against Everton. But when he got booked and was suspended, I think he decided to play a full game. I did also say Mainu was...

keeping fresh during the Bodo-Glimt game. So we've got to run about him as well. And I think this is just something that

I find it pleasing that Amarin already has this in his mind. He's talked about how the team isn't physical and doesn't have the physicality yet. And I think his work around that of the team isn't fit enough is rather than rush these players back and have them run 90 minutes or keep them going when they're evidently gassed, they'll save them from themselves. Hoyland did play really good in midweek, but also Hoyland looked pretty knackered after 65 minutes. Malasia looked pretty knackered at halftime. So those two players didn't feature enough.

against Everton. So I think this is something to keep an eye on. There are going to be earlier subs. There are going to be more changes, especially in December where there's one squillion matches between now and Christmas.

There might not be physicality yet in this Manchester United side, but there is a positive goal difference, Andy Mitton. We had a question from Patrick P. When was the last time we could boast a bigger goal difference than Manchester City? Well, I can tell you, United are on plus four, City are on plus three, and this is the first time that the Reds have been better than the Blues on goal difference after 10 or more maps.

since the end of the 2012-13 season. So it's the first time, poster Alex Ferguson, that United's goal difference has been better than City. That is wild. But Andy, you must be very excited. Yeah, I was going to put a tweet out saying that Manchester United are above Aston Villa now in the league as well. Get the open top bus books. But I thought, no, this just looks completely desperate. But you are seeing quirks with the league table because...

Even though we feel like the season's been going for a long time, because of the international breaks, not that many games have actually been played. So you're still seeing a lot of movement. If a team falls out of favour, like Villa have done, like City have done, you can fall right down the table pretty quickly. United needed those goals. And the other thing is, Everton don't score a lot of goals, but they don't concede a lot of goals either.

And I thought for 20 minutes in the first half Everton were actually the better team. And you've still got that nervousness watching this Manchester United. The team got better in the second half.

and much more comfortable in possession as well. So loads of encouragement and I could see us if we went out for a few drinks together, by the end of like three or four drinks, we'd be planning on Manchester United winning the league at the end of this season because it feels lovely. There's so many good things to talk about, including a new manager who continues to make

a really good impression but you said about December last December was horrendous it was five defeats for the first time since 1933 so we'll take these small wins we'll take the four goals against Everton the clean sheet and moving off that dreaded zero goal difference United have still not scored anything like as many goals as they should have done and I saw a stat before the game yesterday that

that there are fewer goals in Manchester United games because the team don't concede that many either compared to any other club. So Sunday was a big one, but we know that there's loads of big ones coming up. And I still don't think Manchester United are as good as Arsenal. I'm perfectly prepared to be pleasantly surprised on Wednesday night at the Emirates. But it's been a good week and a good start for Ruben Amorim.

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Right, before we talk about the ticket price situation again, let's just preview the away game at Arsenal on Wednesday. Andy said a moment ago, Carl, that he's not convinced Manchester United are better than Arsenal just yet, but there's a little bit more positivity than perhaps there was a couple of weeks ago heading into this game. Yes, yes. United have got a little bit of consistency now. I think certain places in that starting XI are becoming clear. Masraoui is...

becoming world dependable agents Matthias De Ligt is putting in some solid performances I'm not saying he's a world beater yet but he seems to have found his footing there as well and also the fact that Luke Shaw and Melassia are available means there are more left footers in there which is good the fact that Martin is suspended I'm not as afraid of that because we know what Luke Shaw can do at left centre back and also I think left centre back might for the time being

be sure's preferred area until we figure out whether or not he's got the legs to do up and down as a wing back yet. So that's good. It's also good that West Ham have shown us you can score against Arsenal in what was frankly a bonkers first half at the London Stadium. So they can be hit. And if Carlos Fernandes is helping United score set pieces, I'll be interested to know or see if

what his plans are to stopping Arsenal on their set pieces though. Yeah, that will be a challenge certainly. In terms of the positivity then, Laurie, Arsenal will be feeling a little bit more confident as well because they seem to have hit the groove since Martin Odegaard has been back fit for them.

And it's not a place that I have many happy memories watching Manchester United vs. the Emirates either. No, I mean, obviously Eric Ten Hag would rue the 3-1 last season. I'm bringing it up, you know, millimetres away from a glorious victory. I mean, that was a happy memory. What a performance in that match.

3-1 defeat was it? 3-1 defeat. I mean, they had more passes in the first half than I think they've ever had. You know, possession held and all that. It was, you know, an attempt at a new way of playing but ultimately failed and maybe that jeopardised what Ten Hag was trying to do. I mean, the season before was a late victory as well, wasn't it? I think for Arsenal. I've been there as a fan when United have lost 1-0. You know, it feels just like a, you know, it doesn't feel like a... Oh,

until you go back to those days of Ronaldo, Rooney, Park, Nani tearing through them. Oh, I remember Jesse Lingard doing one of his dances. Yeah. Was it the moonwalk or? Millie rocking. Millie rock. That's it. He moonwalked during the FA Cup and he millie rocked in 2018. That was a hilarious moment.

Was there more than one? I'd forgotten that. 2018? 2017? That was the day. Imagine if Hoyland busts out one of them for his goal celebration. He likes to sort of plan those ahead, doesn't he? So I am feeling a little bit better now. I'm thinking back to Jesse Lingard dancing and Cristiano Ronaldo counter-attacking. So there is something there, Laurie, maybe. Something definitely. But you are right. I mean, Martin Odegaard being back for Arsenal is just so vital for them. I mean, they've gone from being, you know, a kind of West Brom-alike team when he wasn't playing, you know, kind of just keeping... What?

four centre-backs stretched across the back line and sort of just big, physical, strong, get a lead and hold on to it. Sorry, that's... Pulis-esque. That's what you're saying. I love it when you bring up these random Midlands things. He's more familiar with Stoke, isn't he? So I probably should have gone with that. It's just that when I was there, he was West Brom manager. So, you know, stood up at a press conference with his baseball cap on, never sat down. What a guy. No, I did that.

Because he wants to be in a rush. I don't know, you tell me, go on. Yeah, because he thought that if he stands up, the press conference wouldn't last as long, which I just do not understand that at all. But yeah. What wonderful things that go through their minds. But yeah, in terms of the actual football, I think that Arsenal will be a real threat. I mean, I watched the highlights of the West Ham game and they...

playing some brilliant football. I mean, West Ham helped them clearly with their sort of defence, I think, at times. But Saka is banging form. He looks right up for it. I mean, Kyle touched upon West Ham actually scoring a couple, but one of them was an absolutely stunning free kick. So if, you know, if it takes that, you sort of think fair play. And I think even the Wan-Bissaka goal was a

pretty sharp bit of play. The Wan-Bissaka what? Aaron Wan-Bissaka scored a beautiful finish actually. Low, near post, great run through, great pass. So it took real quality to break down Arsenal in that game. I mean, admittedly also Wan-Bissaka was sort of asleep at the far post for Leandro Trossard's goal where we've seen that before. A couple of players onside and then doesn't track his runner. So, you know, I suppose that's partly why it never fully worked out for Wan-Bissaka United. But,

I feel like United are going to have to be really sharp and there might well be quite a lot of substitutions again I think from Amarillo I wouldn't be surprised if he makes all five throughout the game and try and change things up but it would be really interesting who he stars you've got to think Hoyland comes back into it even though Xerxes scored a couple I mean

I don't know, who did you play? Rashford again at number 10 with Bruno and then Casemiro, Mainu. Yeah, and Mainu was suspended. So, Ugarte back in. I mean, you've got options, haven't you? But, yeah, I think if... Ugarte starts, doesn't he? Just to break things up. I think, yeah. I don't know, would you be happy, acceptable with a point at Arsenal there? Yeah? Oh, yeah. Acceptable. I mean, I wouldn't choose it. I'd choose a win if I could choose. But, yeah,

I'd find it acceptable, I think a draw, one-all draw would be fine. Andy, in terms of the... Sorry, Laurie. In terms of the line-up, we've had a question from Adam. Ahmad... Sorry, hang on. Saying Adam and Ahmad directly after each other turns out it's quite difficult. We've had a question from Adam on Ahmad, who he believes was man of the match...

in the game at the weekend, like we've said as well. But he played an energetic 90. Do you think we'll see a more defensive wing-back against Arsenal? I mean, I'm on some droppable almost, innit, for this?

Yeah, he is. I don't know what we're going to see. I'm just going to watch the game and keep thinking back to last year. One of the most bizarre Manchester United performances I've ever seen in my life. And then it was pretty cruel last year because it probably wasn't offside with Garnaccio. Wait, so you're denying VAR, Andy? Pardon? I'm denying VAR, yeah. It didn't count. How can you say it probably wasn't offside? What's the basis for that? It's what I want to believe because...

Like when Laurie said the ball didn't go out for Mark. I can say that, by the way. You speak to his truth. I went absolutely mad like everybody did in that away end. And we were convinced, truth be told, no one had an absolute clue because you're miles from it, aren't you? Everyone was raging with anger. This is a disgrace, referee. This is a disgrace of ours. And then the year before, that was when I met Garnaccio's mum.

this lady come up and she said yeah my son's one of the young players and he'd not made it into the first team by that point and whatever happened to him good on him but

But talk about statement victories. You're going to take the mickey out of me now being a legacy fan, but many years ago, around this time of year, Manchester United went to Arsenal, who were champions, and United finished 11th, I think, the previous season. It was a League Cup game. United smashed them for 6-2 in that sparkly blue away kit. Lee Sharp, Danny Wallace. It was one of the great wins of modern times.

Bring something like that on and you will see my mood just go through the ceiling because I'm still being really circumspect because even Ruud van der Struyck, and I hope he does well at Leicester City by the way, anyone who used to cover Leicester City, no, thought not, carry on. I'm actually there for his first game. Oh!

I'll give you a regard to everyone, Laurie, don't worry. Thank you. Yeah, just walk around saying that you know Laurie. And if they say, ooh, you know the lad who's just been to Portugal? Oh, yeah, that Laurie, yeah, I know you. Say my name there, it'll get you in places. Predictive that 5-1 winning, August 2021. Yeah.

I might just go to Leicester one night and just drop your name everywhere and make a tally of how many places I get into and get knocked back from. Wouldn't it be lovely to go to somewhere like Arsenal and win and smash them? Because it feels so long since United had a really good, convincing away performance. I'm not sure we're ready for it at the moment, but under lights at Arsenal, remember that cup game under Solskjaer when we knocked them out of the FA Cup there? It was absolutely brilliant.

brilliant then Alexis Sanchez scored that's how fun that one was yeah he had a few moments didn't he I'm not sure he quite justified the transfer fee and I think it's a reason why Manchester United have got hideous debts at the moment due to signings like him but anyway that's another one come on Reds if all the players are listening today just go and smash Arsenal use that as your tactical base you won't be able to go wrong with Lululemon the real gift happens when your holiday checklist is complete

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Well also on Sunday, before the game and during the game, Manchester United fans once again showed their displeasure at the announcement last week that ticket prices would be increasing to £66. £66 you're taking the piss was the chant from the Stretford end. You were there to hear it, Carl. I mean, there was protest before the match as well. Our mate Critch was putting some of the videos on social media. Stop exploiting our loyalty was the message from the fans there.

And it felt like an important moment, this, actually. We sort of reflected on it, like we've said on the last podcast, but fans showing that during the game or before the game felt like something that we should reflect on. Absolutely. It shows that there is pushback and we're approaching the one-year anniversary of INEOS's partial takeover of Manchester United. As you approach that date, you're feeling your first bit of disgruntlement at how they're running the football club. They believe that

whoever is in charge has made an incorrect decision and they would like things to change. I'd be interested to know or interested to see if these protests continue in the coming fixtures as well, which I suspect they probably will.

they're 66 quid, you're taking the piss. Yeah, that one's going to catch on for a bit. There were some anti-Glazers chants as well during the game. After the goals as well, which I think is also worth remembering. Even during times of supposed happiness for the fan base, they are making it very, very clear. They are not happy with how things are going. Anti-Jim Radcliffe songs, Andy, for the first time as well. Well,

Well, if you charge children £66 for a ticket, there's going to be significant pushback. And so there should be. We've all made our feelings very, very clear on the previous podcast. And I stood outside the ground the other night speaking to people who were

Really affected by this. You know, one fella said he pays 42 quid and it jumps up to 66 quid without any notice in the middle of the season. These people are among us. They're not statistics. They're people who are living, breathing, match-going Manchester United supporters. And it's one reason why I wanted to get in front of Sir Jim Ratcliffe, look him in the eye and tell him face-to-face how important and how an emotive person

this issue is and he gets it. And we had a very robust chat about it. And we spoke a lot about ticketing. The total chat was 36 minutes. I wish it would have been an hour and 36 minutes, but 36 minutes is still a significant amount of time. I know that Manchester United cannot continue to be a loss making company. I know that there's got to be changes, but as we said on the last podcast, and I'm not expecting ticket prices to stay static for the next decade because

as they have done for the previous decade, more or less. That's simply not going to happen. And there are Everton fans protesting as well. This isn't just specific to Manchester United. In fact, it's been more pronounced at other clubs than United. Tottenham and even at Manchester City, there's been a lot of pushback as well. Fulham as well. Well, you know, I actually speak to Ratcliffe about Fulham at one point because I protested with Fulham fans a year ago when we played there last November and

There were Fulham fans saying to me, look, just because we live in a relatively wealthy area of London, try telling it to the kids on estates in Hammersmiths. They're not rich. They just support the local team who happen to be Fulham. And they're in competition with tourists coming over and having a London weekend from the United States who can afford to pay a lot more for tickets. So, yeah.

I think the club need to be told the strength of feeling against these ticket price rises and I think that genuine supporters and local supporters and young supporters should not be excluded from watching Manchester United I said the same thing 30 odd years ago this is why I got

into fan politics if you like when I was 19 years old and a few years later I put my own money in to form Must in 1995 these were core issues in the mid 90s and also when the Glazers took over in the mid 90s

And ticket prices have gone quiet because they haven't gone up that much, because clubs have made the money from broadcast, from commercial, make more money from broadcast and commercial. Do not punish Manchester United fans for the faults of what's going on under the previous decision makers.

Yeah, Laurie, we had an email from Hardik in Bangalore in India. We have a lot of international people, obviously, who listen to this podcast and he makes a fair point, which I think we should probably reflect on, to be fair. I completely understand how the latest Ineos move feels like yet another blow to local fans who often bear the brunt of these ruthless financial decisions. However, I feel it was unnecessary to attribute the club's focus on ticketing revenue solely to foreign fans. Many of us are pouring our life savings into fulfilling our dream of visiting Old Trafford. I mean, it is a

It is an issue for all fans. And I think we tried to reflect that on the last podcast, to be fair. We acknowledge that people coming from different places, it's an issue for them as well. But local fans who are going on the regular are going to be more affected by these increases. That was why we were speaking in those terms. Yeah, and there was a young fan, I think, with a sign outside the Trinity statue basically saying that he's on his father's shoulders saying, you know, I'm...

I'm to blame for the loss-making. A very pointed message, I think, that surely should strike a chord. But as you say, it affects all fans, local, from abroad. There's so many different nationalities that come to Old Trafford because of the pull of...

know the stadium alone I know it gets a lot of criticism but it still does carry a certain charm and you know wow factor when people first see it and it takes a lot of money a lot of effort to come from abroad to do that so then to have to pay you know kind of double what you might be paying anyway for a ticket is the

The numbers are going to get so high if this is the thin end of a wedge and it's a sign of things to come that you are going to price out so many people and it's just going to become a different sport to watch and witness. And the thing is, United are making losses, but it's not because of the people putting the money in. It's because of poor transfer deals and bad recruitment and poor form on the pitch. If they actually just got the house in order...

The TV revenue is absolutely enormous. The commercial pull is absolutely enormous. Okay, COVID's had a hit, but they're still sustaining these appealing multi-million pound contracts. And if they're actually winning, then those contracts will get better. So there's double reason to actually get your stuff right when it comes to signing players and picking the team. So they don't need...

to put ticket prices up. The wages of players is basically what it's paying for, right? The wages of players is ultimately the biggest outgoing football club, albeit they've obviously trimmed their staff by a quarter from 1,000 to sort of 750. So a lot of people have been made redundant. I understand a little bit the need to streamline operations, and I'm sure the savings that have been made there that are...

very um you know worthwhile but at the same time it barely scratches the surface of what the actual outgoing of the club is so get your recruitment right and you know if you have to be more disciplined with the wages you're offering then so be it if you want to have a profit-making business that that's where your targeting should be in terms of this this issue we've had a lot of emails on it i hope that our conversations around it have reflected how people are feeling and

And thank you, as always, for getting in touch. If you do want to ever get in touch with the podcast, remember the email address, devilspod at theathletic.com. But for the moment, we're going to leave it there on Talk of the Devils. Thank you, Carl. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Laurie. And enjoy speaking to Ruben Amorim in about an hour's time. We'll hear his thoughts a little bit later ahead of the Arsenal trip. And we'll speak to you again after that match at the Emirates Stadium. Thanks for listening. Bye-bye. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

Shut up, David.

The time may be out of the playoffs, but I'm super excited to see the 12 best teams in the nation play. All the banter, insights, and more on Until Saturday. Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.