Amorim opens OT account with a win amid ticket price anger
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This is Talk of the Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. Here we are again, cuddled up in the press box at Old Trafford after Ruben Amorim's era at this ground. Got underway with a 3-2 victory over Bodo Glimt in the Europa League. We're going to react to all the details from tonight. We'll look ahead to Everton on this ground at the weekend as well. And there's also been a very angry reaction amongst the fan base to ticket bans.

Price rises announced by the club this week and we'll also talk about that too. Hello Andy Mittum. Hello Ian Irving. Hello Laurie Whitwell. Hello Ian Irving. Hello Karl Anka. Hello Ian Irving. How are you doing? So that's nice and formal.

What's that? That's Norwegian chocolate. It's a gift for all of us from Bodo today. I got it in Manchester from a podcast listener. So let's tuck in. I was going to say, surely Andy's not bought these? No, I'm not. What are they called? You want me to pronounce them?

Melkhejerta. You have just butchered that. Yeah. Go on then. Go on. Tell me what it really is, Laurie, in Norwegian. They are heart-shaped milk chocolate. Oh, they're like little wafers. That's fun. Little discs. Oh, nice. What notes are you getting? Are these better than Maltesers, Andy? First bite? They're nice. They're good.

It's just the kind of stuff that Ollie brought for Kath on reception when he came back. No, it's different chocolate. Exclusive. This is the stuff that producer Ollie is going to get livid at, the fact that we're just eating on the mic. Yeah, but that was good, wasn't it? The football. Oh, I thought you meant the chocolate. I was going to say the chocolate's lovely. Football was quite good. Nervous in places. Nervous in places. One thing that keeps being apparent in all of Amber's press conferences, he keeps mentioning physicality.

He says, we need to be physical, the opposition is physical, they need to run. If the other team scores, he brings up their speed and their power. And you keep going, OK, we get it. You want these United boys to get on the treadmill and in the weight room. So, yeah, work in progress and you take the three points for now. He said in the press conference he wants them to jog when they can't run, which was...

An interesting way of saying that they still need to get more mobile in training as well as in matches. Better than walking. Yeah, they'll be crawling by the end of the year, I'm sure. But yeah, detailing that, that he was happy with and detail that you've seen a little bit more again of exactly what his team needs to look like. And it was a change team, six changes from the Ipswich game and more changes during the game. You know, that back...

3, 5, 4 4 if you listen to him in the press conference yeah it did look like Ahmad was more just being a winger wasn't it but yeah 4-4 he said it was 4 today yeah because I was told it wasn't I said no it was a 4 and I was told no no it wasn't it's a 3 they defended in a 4-4-2 in certain phases

I think that's actually embargoed, but never mind. I'm sure everyone is listening to this at 1.30pm on Friday afternoon. I'm told it wasn't a four. It was only a four when United were out of possession, pressing. That's literally what Kyle just said. Right. Just reinforcing it. Just reinforcing. We've double-sourced this now, haven't we? Yeah, I can confirm there. Out of possession shape was 4-4-2. But yeah...

Again, detail Andy, new things to look at, new players to look at in this system as well and actually Rasmus Hoylen, Mason Mount, there were some impressive displays, Manuel Agate deep in midfield. Masraoui I thought did very well too. He's great by the way, I know we've said this before but he gets better and better. It's good. You know, he's great at dodgeball as well.

Right. Yeah, I went to a school event on Monday that he was at with Harry Maguire, Tom Heaton, Altai Bandi. The lads were amazing at dodgeball at a school visit. They were playing dodgeball against one another and Masraoui was an absolute shark. Anyway, as you were. You're going to really laugh at me now, but what is dodgeball? Oh, Andy. I don't know. Dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge. That's like talking in Bulgarian to me. You try and tell me what...

Dodgeball is a recreational game, 5v5. You have a ball and the aim of the game is to throw it at your opponent and if you hit them with the ball they're out. However, if the opponent catches the ball then you're out.

It's like listening to Geordie say, I haven't got a clue what you're on about. You try to say it and looking at me like I'm an absolute idiot. I tell you what, don't worry, let's just talk about football. You know about that one. I've just had a good chat with Bordeaux Glimpse manager, right? Just me and him. He remembered me from visiting him five years ago. Seriously. When he took me in his dressing room, he's a lovely man, and spoke to me last night and I bumped into him by the side of the pitch.

And I said, what did you think of Manchester United? And this isn't like, you know, going to someone under the stands or whatever. He's the manager of the opponent. And he said, physically, Manchester United had the edge on us, which is quite interesting. Technically, they had the edge on us. I saw like, well, which players? Bruno Fernandes with his overall peripheral vision. Hoyland. He was frustrated that they went behind so early, obviously.

Delighted with his side's goals and thinks that they can get better. They lost the game, but they had nearly 7,000 fans there. They're probably going to win the league at the weekend. They are going to look back in 10, 20 years and go, these were the absolute best of times for this tiny football club. He's a top manager. He's a great human. I thought that when I met him first time. We come across people in our job all the time, don't we? And a couple of them stand out. He's clearly good at his job, but...

Good things come to good people. That's why you got chocolates this afternoon, innit? Yeah, I'm going to start playing dodgeball in the morning as well, whatever it is. Get some tips from Nus Mazraoui. Let's talk about some of the detail then. Rasmus Hoylen, Andy mentioned that the opposing manager thought that he had a good game, but two goals will be the headline. In fact, his record before tonight was only 2-13, so they were timely.

but actually the presence that he was um the the outball that he offered some of the runs that he made more like it yeah and the finishes okay the second one is a fairly straightforward one passing to net but he's in the right position he's anticipating it looked like he might have been offside but i know var cleared it um but the first one was an absolutely brilliant finish you know just so smooth one motion left foot right foot finish obviously you can do it off either foot and the

the celebration was great really enjoyed it obviously he's been watching Gladiator this week that may be embargoed as well but I think I'm releasing it we spoke to him in the mix zone anyway he's been at the cinemas for weeks how can it be embargoed? Laurie asked him about it it's nice because he was

bit routine in his answers in the mix zone and Laurie asked him about his celebration and referenced the film and he smiled and it was a nice bit of interaction. Just tried to warm him up a bit but it's quite difficult in a mix zone when you've got so many different people trying to ask questions to get any sense of rapport but I was really pleased for him because there's a lot of focus on him. He's 21 and I've doubted is he going to be good enough to be United's number 9 but he's asked for the shirt, he's got the shirt and I think he obviously has that confidence and

But he obviously... There's a lot of focus on him because United just don't score that many goals. You know, 58, 57 in the Premier League in the last two seasons. He'd only scored two so far this season. But I just thought that was a really intriguing and encouraging performance from him. And in this system, right, you know, he's played at Atalanta, he says...

So it's kind of, it's not that alien to him. It is different what he's doing now than what he was doing under Tanagi. He says the pressing is different. He doesn't have to look over his shoulder as much. So if he's just sort of focused on getting into the box in the right areas, running the channels, as you say, then surely that's going to make him a better player. Yeah, Carl's praying to the sky. I can echo that. Actually, like being given service as well, that he can attack. I mean, there was...

Tyrell Malassia, bless him, gave it his all in that first half. We'll talk about him in a moment. I mean, how he must have felt starting for the first time in 550 days and being constantly given the ball and constantly asked to run down that left-hand side. He looked knackered. But one of the crosses he put in wasn't the best of crosses, but Hoyland applauded him because I think he liked the idea of the ball coming in early and high so he could attack it. Interestingly, 21 years old, you said, Hoyland, there's only two Manchester United players

who have scored more major European goals than him aged 21 or under and they are Wayne Rooney and Marcus Rashford so that's not bad it's not bad going and Laurie speaking about running the channels yes that's what he's good at that's what he was always good at at Atalanta it's just

For ages, we kept having Onana punt it long to him while he was wrestling with giants. No, one of the benefits of this new system is the number 10s are going to be closer to him. There are going to be more one-twos, more little triangles, and hopefully the wingbacks. It was Masi this time, and unfortunately, we know Anthony's ability to cross the ball means you're going to get outside the boot crosses instead. But there will be, in potential, more crosses coming in. Masraoui

I mean, that was a delightful bit of shake and bake before his crossing for Hoyland. So you could keep that going. Hoyland is, I'm not going to say he's going to score 20 goals this season, but if anyone is going to get there, it's going to be probably him or Garnaccio on the way. One of the interesting things now is whether or not he starts on Sunday. I know before the game against Bordeaux Glimt,

Mr. Amarin was talking about rotation and saying that if you play after a game, if you play, you can't train for two days. So...

Hoyland might not get injured as much as he did last season, but also Hoyland definitely seems to be applying. He's a bit of a rhythm to keep that first touch really, really nice and good. Could have had a hat-trick as well. I know he didn't actually have a shot or even get the ball, but he peeled into a lovely bit of space. Garnaccio's there. It could have been another three different people giving him assists, but obviously Garnaccio took the shot. You're kind of wintry. Do you think that he was allowed to take the shot there, Garnaccio? No, I just think, again, for Garnaccio tonight, it was...

decision-making and a little bit of composure as well. I mean, he's Manchester United's top goalscorer. I've got it written down here. Yeah, eight goals, four assists this season, but it could have been so much more than that even. I mean, that in itself is a positive. And he looked better tonight in the position in this 3-4-3 than he did against Ipswich. He's learning, clearly. Yeah, but his finishing's got to be better, and he knows that because he's two times when he should have scored.

He got the tap-in at the start, but Hoyland did really well to work for that, to anticipate that, to get a foot in and win that. But you saw Garnaccio's reaction in front of the Stretford end when he swept a shot wide, and then he had an even better chance. If you've got time to tee up your shot and you still don't hit the target, it's not really good enough, and he knows that. And I see merit in him, and it's great that he's a top scorer. I just spoke to Anthony after the game. I said, «Todo bon?» And he said, «Todo».

That was it. Does that mean okay, does it? How are you doing? An exclusive there. He got that scrappy goal and then he seemed like he wanted to spend the rest of the game trying to score the perfect goal. He kept going for that curling right-footed shot to the far corner. I know someone in the Athletic Live chat brought up Rene Methelstein's quotes from when Ronaldo began to make the jump

from being a sort of I've mispronounced that are we going to let him get away with it no way Renny what I was like who's he which philosopher is he bringing in I had no idea who you were talking about then I was just going to wait for that to play out and then hopefully I've begun to understand who you're referring to Renny Moolenstein there you go no he means like his Yorkshire cousin Renny Mephelstein right by the way his daughter's only seen us on the live show in Belfast right she came she came to see us didn't she top girl come on Carl

Ahem.

René's quotes about Ronaldo, the very famous set of quotes where he talked about how eventually Ronaldo, well, he helped Ronaldo understand that all goals count and you don't get extra style points for your bicycle kicks or for your 30-yard screamers. And sometimes the best way to go from scoring 10 goals a season to scoring 15 or 20 is scoring the scruffier ones. And I think that's going to be the next big step for Garnaccio. You've got one scruffy goal. Can he get two or three scruffy goals instead of just going, OK, now I'm going to get a highlight reel?

Welcome to Casa Ruben.

And with your Duolingo skills, what does that translate as? Welcome to our house, Ruben. So I had planned to say welcome to Ruben Amarin in Portuguese. Jack Lang, who is our resident Brazilian Portuguese speaker at The Athletic, sent me some voice notes. We're practicing for weeks throughout the live shows, anytime I had my headphones on, practicing this.

Get to Carrington on Wednesday and Francisco, a very nice Portuguese journalist, just travelled over and said, oh, can you help me answer some questions? I said, sure. And I said, just before we get into this press conference, here's what I'm planning to say to Ameren. And he looked at me and he just went, do not say that. Your words are correct, but your accent is terrible. So, yeah, thank you, Francisco, for saving me several blushes.

Danny Jameson, the reporter tonight for TNT Sports, told me that he was going to really try and get Huben correct in his pre-match and hope that English people didn't shout at him for being clever. But apparently, Huben really appreciated the effort. There's a story behind that flag in the Stretford end. Because they don't just magic themselves out of nothing, you know, these flags. Someone's got to make them and someone's got to pay for them. And the Red Army got it together.

And it was big, it was impressive and... A little too big, unfortunately. Yeah, it didn't unfurl properly, did it? Well, it could have been better. Could you have got in there and marshalled them and kind of put orders out there to do it properly? It was a very ambitious flag and I think the idea was to fully outstretch it across the Stratford end but then it looked as if there was a moment where one or two security guards were being a bit too much of a jobs worth saying you can't carry it over one of these entrances so they had to sort of tilt it diagonally. So...

No, I applaud the effort and absolutely Amarin seemed taken aback by the style and the response of the Old Trafford crowd. The warm-up drill was also a bit different as well. They had a little sprinting drill right at the end so they sort of did a five-yard sprint and then the starting 11 all turned around and sprinted right down the tunnel so the Trafford end could really give them an applause. There is an energy building and I think Amarin wants, well, if Amarin keeps talking about running

the crowd and how the crowd responds to them running is going to be really really key it's hard to run when it's cold it's a lot easier when there's 70,000 people calling you a good lad for doing it yeah definitely just in terms of the league table now in the Europa League 12th 12th that will really shake them up yeah

get into the top 10 soon I mean there's that big game against Victoria Pleasant or whatever the call oh no Pilsen never mind Pilsen yeah yeah we are doing this deliberately we are trying we are trying I promise you yeah very trying

Indeed. 12th in the Premier League, 12th in the Europa League, but weirdly only four points off top in the Europa League because it feels like everyone seems to be beating one another and the gaps are not very big between the places. So still Manchester United, I think one point now away from the automatic

qualification places for the last 16 so the picture improving unbeaten in Europe just before we finish this section a word on the away fans 6,714 the biggest away allocation for a European match here ever is it? is that right? yeah ever

They got lucky because Real Madrid are far bigger than Bordeaux Glimpse. They wouldn't have been given that many tickets. They sold out their 3,500 within minutes and they said, can we have more tickets? And because demand for tonight was quite soft from the home end, Manchester United, who were trying to increase revenues, especially from tickets. We'll get on to that. They said, yeah.

So they sold them all out. And also, they're low risk. They're not coming here with a massive firm of hooligans. They've just been in Freight Island all day. I got a call at half eleven this morning to say there were not enough bar staff in Freight Island. There was that many of them. They presume you can do something about that. I was with the person who was organising it this morning in the centre of Manchester. And...

They've had a great time. They've come here for a bit of winter sun. It's been two really nice days, escaping the dark of northern Norway. They were a credit to their club, the wall of yellow. And it was a good night for them. I don't want to be patronising here, but they did see their side score two really good goals and give Manchester United a bit of a shock. So I'm not saying they would have accepted that because they've actually had some really good results in Europe. But it was a good night. Anyway, your chocolate's lovely.

Put a broken narrow on.

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OK, on to a topic now then that has had a lot of Manchester United fans angry this week and that was the club's decision which they announced on Tuesday to increase the price of unsold tickets for the remainder of the matches in this season.

And the fact that it came into effect immediately and the fact that it seemed like there was very little, if any, consultation with supporters before making this decision has got people especially angry. Andy, what's your reaction to this before we get into all the different details? I think the club have messed up. A pensioner came up to me outside the ground tonight and told me how much extra he is now going to have to pay because he's one of the small percentage who gets tickets this way. And it was really fuming.

It's going to raise such a relatively small amount of money. There's easier ways to get money. My worry is it's the thin end of the wedge, that this is leading into much bigger rises across all areas of the ground. And Manchester United do need to raise revenues. But I originally got into fan activism, if you like, when I was 18 years old, and it was on one issue. And I felt really strongly about it, and I still do, and that's ticket prices. This is a working-class city.

I don't mind executive areas maximising your revenues from them, but it has got to be affordable to the people of Manchester. The kids, the future fans, should not be paying huge amounts to watch this football team. And we can make jokes and say £66 to, you know, Bodo Glimm's probably a bad example because it was quite an entertaining game.

It's not on. It was poorly communicated. And the fan groups, who were volunteers, by the way, doing their very best and getting stick, whether they do or don't do anything, they were just told it was happening. That wasn't consultation. That was information. I didn't like it. I think the club dropped a...

Drop to... You can say it. All right. I think the club dropped a **** with this one. Yeah. Laurie, you've written a piece on The Athletic with Andy talking about some of the reaction from supporters to this decision. I mean, first of all, just to spell it out, can you just give a detail on exactly what is changing?

You've put me under pressure here, haven't you, Ian? Well, what a pleasure it was, by the way, to share a byline with Andy on an exclusive, you know, news hound Andy Mitten. And yeah, so this was the letter that was written by Must, Fans Forum, Fan Advisory Board, to Omar Barada, the chief executive. And it basically spelt out what they thought of the decision. And, you know, they called it a disgrace, scandalous. They did the sums in terms of what it would cost, you know, for a

if a dad wants to bring his son to a game over Christmas and he's a member so basically 97% of tickets have been sold already through season tickets and what not but then there's a percentage of tickets that go on sale members and

So basically there's going to be no concessions for over 65s or under 16s, which at the moment there is. So £66 is just an awful lot of money for a kid who wants to go to watch United. To put it in perspective, it's as much of a 40% increase for adult tickets and as much of a 164% increase for...

kids tickets it's an increase at a level never seen before according to the letter that's been sent to Omar Barada by Muston the fan advisory board and the fans forum as well in terms of what this actually means for supporters moving forward how much of a concern is this going to be and how much of

of a pressure does this put and a scrutiny again on INEOS's decision making? Yeah, I mean they, as Andy said, I think fans think it's the thin end of a wedge. It's the start of what they're going to do longer term because they obviously need to raise revenues to build a stadium. That's been the massive question about all this talk of let's get a shiny new stadium. Well, how's it going to fund itself?

and raising ticket prices, making the fans pay for it is one way. Now, the fans would say that they should actually make that equity and if you want to raise funds, then sell bits of the club. The Glazers have never done that unless it then lined their own pockets. So we're in this position because of their management of the club, the billions of pounds of debt that they've ladled onto the club for the pleasure of having them as owners.

And now Sir Jim Ratcliffe has come in and decided that the business isn't running how it should do. And he's done this everywhere he's been, you know, in all the different Ineos businesses. And I think it's pretty clear this is a Ratcliffe decision. You know, something like this doesn't happen at United this quickly without it coming from him. And so that's where the questions will lie. And, you know, I think there probably will be people thinking, pretty bruised by the fact that it has been done without consultation. And so, you know, that's...

that's what the letter's trying to do it's asked for a pause it's asked for a reflection and a reconsideration whether that's going to be listened to I've no idea I'd be doubtful to be honest because I don't think Ratcliffe is the kind of person that you know bows to this kind of pressure but I feel like that they're also saying

they're putting their flag in the ground to say we know what this might lead to in future we need to be consulted or you'll start getting a bubbling of fan sentiment that might spill over into there's a protest that's been called for on Sunday ahead of the Everton game we'll see how well attended that is

because it's difficult to get people to mobilise fully. I think I actually heard at the start of the game, I might be wrong, but I thought I heard we want Glazers out at the start, which is interesting that obviously this is, I would say, an Ineos call because the Glazers kept ticket prices level. I think they knew that there'd be riots if they tried to raise ticket prices after everything they'd done to the club.

But it's interesting that the Glazers are still the focus here. I wonder at what point, if this does continue and if it feels unfair what's happening, that that will then reflect on Jim Ratcliffe and Ineos. Andy, the letter that you wrote about said that the ink's barely dry on the recently published fan engagement strategy statement.

The protocol was agreed in consultation between the Fan Advisory Board and the Manchester United Supporters Trust. And it explicitly states as well that ticketing is one of the areas that the club are supposed to consult fans on before making these sort of calls. I mean, to do this mid-season especially is unprecedented. It's a poor look. And if you're going to consult and engage, then you must consult and engage. You can't just say this is happening because people then lose faith.

in the whole idea of fans talking to the club. There's a lot of trust in this. There's back-channel chats where you can say, this is not on. And I know for a fact that in recent years, there's been moves to raise ticket prices and there's been a big pushback. And they've gone, all right, well, fair enough. We won't put them up. And we have had a good run, by the way, of ticket prices. So, 92-93...

Yeah, I think we've had a good run. Didn't it increase for 11 years, I think it was? And it's been a 5% increase the last two years. I can remember ticket prices going up 30% in the mid-90s. When the Glazers came in in 2005, for the first five years, they shot up by double digits, 17%, 18%. So we have had a good run since then because clubs have been able to get more of the monies from broadcast, from commercial, from

And now, and not just at Manchester United, you sense that ticket prices are coming back on to be a main issue. So other fans are protesting. And if you apply a pure supply and demand model, you could get a lot more money for the tickets here. But...

Manchester United fans, a lot of them from this city are working class people. I think they should be protected. And also, they bring support, they bring atmosphere. They don't just turn up for Liverpool at home, where you could stretch the prices right out. And I feel really strongly about it. It's detrimental to the atmosphere of Old Trafford. If you make it that only children, only the parents of children who can afford £66 can visit...

to go back to an old Roy Keane quote, the prawn sandwich brigade don't bring a great atmosphere. They're not going to be screaming attack, attack, attack and carry your team

in those dying minutes of a second half when you're a goal down and you're chasing because if you start charging high entertainment prices people are going to start viewing it like entertainment, like TV. We also need to be served up high entertainment on the pitch, don't we? I mean, you don't want to pay more to watch a team in 12th place, do you? That's an issue that they need to sort out before they start thinking about charging more, surely. The benefits of charging this extra price are massively outweighed for how much goodwill you are going to lose and the classic economic...

argument is that football fans are sticky so the only thing you are more likely to pass on to your children than your football team is the fact that if you have brown eyes is the old economic argument but you keep doing stuff like that you keep pricing them out and all you're going to get is tourists and I do not mean tourists in a xenophobic manner I mean people that view football purely as a television product in the same way they view a Netflix TV program and whatnot and do not necessarily care about the team

And it just ebbs away at the soul of football and ebbs away at the soul of United. It's a ridiculous thing to do. I don't understand... Well, I do understand why a person with that much wealth thinks this is a good idea. But from a human perspective, it's folly. Nonsense. So the actual numbers that we're talking about here, as Karl sort of touched on there, I think...

He's talking about maybe £1.5 million or something for the rest of this season. So it's not that much in the scheme of things. But I think Ratcliffe and the financial advisors around him are viewing this as a club that's lost £100 million most recently, lost its five consecutive years. They need to make savings. But at the same time, you've just sacked a manager who's cost you £10.4 million, as their accounts revealed,

yesterday so this literally they've rushed it through now because they're saying that they want to comply with financial fair play and PSR for this season so you can see the calculations there can't you this doesn't even it's like a tenth of what you know well okay a bit more than a tenth maybe like a twelfth or an eighth of what I know I'm all over the place here I should have just quit at 1.5 mil shouldn't I but

I just think that's a real, as Carl said, a sad way to look at things. And I think people can understand if ticket prices maybe rose occasionally, if they had consultation, and if there was a value to what they were getting from it. I think that might be okay. As Andy said, there's been pushback previously. But I just think that this just feels like...

disregard it feels like we don't care really what you think actually and again to Carlsberg I think that absolutely nails it because you'll get a different atmosphere at Old Trafford and

I mean they've already tried to address the age rising you know I think the Stretford End average age used to be when Andy was going it was probably like 17 I think it was something like that really young and now it's like 40 and I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing in itself but usually the youth is what will sustain the club ultimately and will provide that incredible atmosphere that you want Yeah and also at the other end of it you know you've got

people inside this ground paying concession prices who've been season ticket holders for a generation for a very very long time and their support year after year after year has helped make United what they are as well for what it's worth the club say that they will respond appropriately to the letter that's been sent to them by the supporters group and they insist the decision has been a very difficult one to reach what do you think happens next?

I don't know whether they will go back because as Laurie says it's not their style to go back but they have got this wrong. You lose the goodwill of the fans in the stadium and that's really not a good thing because if you're going to sell sponsorship

they're going to want to be attracted to something where the feeling's good, even if the team are not top. What will the picture of tonight be of Amarant? It's going to be the banner, isn't it? So it's those exact supporters who are creating that moment who you're affecting. So those supporters are in the middle block in the Stratford end. In 1993, that block was given over to executive supporters. I told Martin Edwards, the chairman, that he'd got it wrong. He ignored it. He disagreed with me for a decade. And then 14 years later, he admitted that he'd got it wrong.

The stadium should be bigger. That would ease the pressure and allow more people to come. And again, put some more executive seats in. Stretch the prices out. Look at the Barcelona model. The tourist market is far wealthier. If you're going to come once a season, then you are going to pay more for the privilege than someone who's going to come all of the time. Look at the atmosphere in Liverpool at home last season. The fans got the team overjoyed.

over the line I don't have a big issue with Tories fans but I've stood outside that ground for 35 years I've heard some horrendous comments people literally coming up to me and going where is Old Trafford and it's literally 80 meters behind me it's the biggest football stadium in England and I'm very sarcastically go it's just down there mate and pointing up to like this

24,000 seat a stand and I'm thinking how thick can you be? These people actually exist. Do not fill the stadium with these type of people. The young fans, it's difficult enough for them to get tickets as it is. You've got to join a membership. You've got to apply weeks in advance. When I was a kid and I know we have a laugh about it was a long, long time ago, you could just turn up on the day. You could pay in. On your penny farthing. On your penny farthing but there's so much spontaneity and the cost

The club have done so many good things in the last decade with the fans. Loads of concessions. The TRA is a good idea. Because they coasted in the 90s. They were really bad in the 90s, Manchester United, communicating with fans. We're talking in the middle of a cost of living crisis, right? We're talking at a point in time where people around the country are having to choose between switching on their heating or putting food on the table. We're talking at a time where there's just mass unemployment. And we're talking at a time where...

where the Manchester Foundation before the game against Leicester City were doing a coat drive where people were asked if you've got spare coats at home could you please hand them in because one person's abundance is one person's scarcity we're going into a Christmas period where a lot of people are worried about can they switch the heating on can they afford presents there's huge financial anxiety and I

The idea of thinking now is an appropriate time to increase prices around their football team, the one thing that's meant to take them away from the drudgery of day-to-day life and the crap grey skies and the nonsense that's going on in the news, and then you switch on your email address and, oh, look, it's your football team, the one that calls you a family and asks for your support and asks you to sit and get behind you is now going, yeah, could you give us an extra couple of quid because we have to worry about PSR complaints because...

we bought that one player that actually might not have it for the practice. Behave yourself! Yeah, get the football decisions right. That's what it all stems down to. That's where the losses are, the bad recruitment and bad performances. And just on Karl's point there, this is the promise that INEOS came in with to make it fan-centred ownership or leadership. Yeah, for local community. And this takes that away.

You don't just change clubs like a supermarket. You stay with Manchester United through thick and thin. When I climbed that hill thing last month, right, a load of that money went to buy blankets because kids in this city live in poverty because they've not got blankets. And I know it wasn't like Laurie's big expedition to Portugal, but it took a long, long time to do that. And that's where the money's going to. We can laugh about it, but it is a serious point here.

They cannot be clothier to it. I know revenues have got to rise. I know that mistakes have been made, but the fans were not at fault for Manchester United's poor recruitment. And there might be a bit of blowback on some of the players because some of the amounts they earn is absolutely obscene as well. But that's a problem for the game, not just for Manchester United.

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We've got five minutes left because obviously that was a very, very important topic that we wanted to address properly. We've been given a five-finger salute by one of the security guards here. Not Luke tonight. I thought it was a two-finger salute. No, he said five minutes, so five fingers. Oh, no, no, no.

Much more polite than that. But we have got Everton on this ground. There's a drill just beginning, so that's going to be great for our audio. There's lots of things popping about as well, so apologies if the audio quality's dropped. But we need to preview Everton. Amarim seems to be looking forward to it. He's done his away game. He's done his first home game in the Europa League. Now he's got his first home Premier League game. And Manchester United need three points. Yeah, absolutely. Good.

Get points on the board. Now's the time to get the climb. Playing in a Sean Dyche team is very different to playing a McKenna team and playing a team managed by a manager's name. We're not going to try and pronounce it. But one thing that is going to be, again, apparent is physicality. Everton don't have too many players who can beat a man on the dribble, but they are going to be really strong as set pieces. And if they need a goal, I know Sean likes to send Michael Keane up as an emergency striker in the last minutes. So get ready to scrap that.

Kjetil Nutsen. I don't know why I've not been pronouncing his name. Kjetil Nutsen, what a name. When Carl just said that, I'd winch and die. I love watching him die dribble. But anyway. They've Nick Cavani's song as well. Have they? I've missed that. Nah. Do you know who bumped into this morning? The mayor of Manchester. And he's an Evertonian, isn't he? Andy Burnham? Yeah. He's been on our podcast. Yeah, he's sound Andy. I got him a ticket here in 98, which I'd forgotten about, which we said on the podcast. Yeah.

He's doing this little trick which I don't like where he's like we're going to get beat at the weekend you don't know what Sean Dyche is like and again

This is the girls in my class at GCSE times. Oh, I've not revised. I've not revised. All right, that's fair enough because I did 10 minutes last night. Then they get the results. Oh, I can't believe I got a straight A's. We called it a Jenny Arnold at our school because Jenny Arnold was infamous for doing this. I'm not having it. I'm still sore about this because I took what they said at face value. So Andy Burnham trying to say that Everton are going to do nothing at Old Trafford at the weekend. I don't buy it because Man United aren't that good. Should be beating Everton.

Yeah. And we should have beaten them when we drew on all and Oli Gullis-Solshaw slumped started. That was against Everton, wasn't it? When Greg turned on the halfway line and ran and banged it in. You can't take any result for granted in this league because Man United are not that good and even Everton can pick a result up. We're talking about Manchester United's attacking problems or we have been on different podcasts. I think we mentioned it in that first section. They did score three tonight. That was good, wasn't it? Yeah.

He actually really did well to go 2-1 down and just react. And there was very little drama, wasn't there? We should maybe have reflected on that a bit more. Narnia, thank you for those saves in that second half. In terms of little drama, I think...

I think you're getting... They're balloons. They're very loud. I think we're getting minimal drama now because Onana's becoming more secure. I felt drama when he came out with the ball a couple of times. Yeah, you're right there. But, you know, his save on that free kick, he made a couple of saves on it. There was one offside header he made a save on. He's getting to the point now where... Well...

I think the defenders aren't having to check their shoulders as much to make sure Onana's in the right position because he's there. So that's useful. Yeah, no goals in the last three matches for Everton. That's how bad it's been for them. They're actually one of the, what, three sides who've scored fewer than United in the Premier League this season. So, nil-nil on Sunday? I just want to see that back.

five again I didn't finish my point at the very start of this podcast I'm going to finish it now where it was Casemiro Luke Shaw no centre backs no centre backs so yeah that would be interesting yeah the Molassie thing we need to touch on a little bit just because first game back in 550 days amazing

fantastic for him and he was out here with his family at the end actually afterwards just enjoying it embracing it he did look rusty and he got taken off at half time you could see why the guy smoked him didn't he for his goal but that's maybe to be expected he was that knackered he couldn't even kick the post in anger properly oh

What I do like is that Amarim makes changes, so he's proactive with it. He made three at once, and he's trying to freshen up, isn't he? 60 minutes for Mason Mount, ran himself into the ground. I thought he looked really good, by the way, actually. He's sprightly Mason Mount, isn't he? He's just technically gifted, and he gets stuck in, doesn't he? So, you know, I wonder if this system could really go for him. And...

and so yeah but I think Everton they'll come with a robust plan and this will be interesting for Amarim because I don't know how many different variations of style of play that he gets in Portugal maybe that's been really you know critical and kind of you've been as well you should show more respect they're all cultured aren't they they've been to Portugal I don't know if you knew what was it like it was fantastic pastel de natas

I'd have passed on that after today. George kindly gave me one. Thanks, George. That's nice, isn't it? But yeah, you're right, actually. I mean, this sort of approach, Everton's approach coming here, Andy, will be very different to what he's faced with Budda Glimpse and what he faced with Ipswich. It's going to be extremely different to Arsenal away, which is going to be a huge test. It feels like that's a big test quite early on, doesn't it? I'm not going to get

too far ahead let's think about Everton first but this is a very English challenge that he's going to face yeah it'll be 0-0 won't it be worth 66 quid of anyone's money against Everton at the weekend I'm only joking about that Arsenal next week and then we've got City coming up as well it's a big month here now I'd settle for a 1-0 against Everton because I still think even tonight when they scored their two goals it's

You know what I mean? Get it split open and I'd be surprised if Malasia started at the weekend but I've not got absolute confidence in this Manchester United team at the moment. Bruno Deep as well, we've not reflected on that. He did it in the Ipswich game but he didn't do it from the start like he did tonight and that even offers... It's a very attacking team from United today if he plays deep. It is, it is. I have my reservations about Bruno Deep because I don't think he's the best receiving the ball under pressure. Although, you know, in terms of...

of getting the ball from point A to point B he's always going to do that one thing I think will be interesting for the Everton game based on the fact that Mad didn't start on Thursday I think Mad will probably start against Everton if Everton are going to hunker down deep you need someone who's able to wriggle through tight spaces and Mad is probably your best number 10 for that if there's going to be a game for Mad it will probably be the one against Everton and then you might want to get some more

direct runners in behind for Arsenal and City after that well could we mean who get minutes at the weekend oh yeah good point this is funny to me in that we've had how many years of Ten Hag not rotating the team you're genuinely confused when a manager's like no I'm just going to keep my player slowly ease him in he's not easing him in he's not at any minutes exactly

He's just come back from hamstring injury. Why do you need to rush him? You're a goal up. I'd like to see him back on the pitch. He's had him warming up though. Yeah, yeah. You don't need to use him yet. So you're just going to keep him in reserve until you actually need him. You think that's what it is then? So you think he's getting in this team no matter what? I think Mainu's time...

will be when he's absolutely 100% ready. There was a moment on Wednesday when Amarin was asked about Yoro and he said, Yoro is back on grass but we need to build his fitness. And we're going to be hearing this all season long with Amarin about fitness and physicality and the ability to run. And I genuinely think Mainu is being kept on ice right now until he goes from being 85% to being as close to 100%. Until he gets to that point, Amarin doesn't necessarily want to use him yet. Rotation is going to be a big thing in these games, so...

If you're not seeing Mainu for five minutes, that's because Amar is like, I don't want to risk that yet. I really want to keep him at tippity-tippity-top. Fair point, Carl. It'd just be nice to see Kobi Mainu back in a Manchester United shirt on the pitch because it's been seven or eight weeks, I think, since that injury at Aston Villa. Anyway, we'll see what Everton brings on Sunday. Thank you for your company on Talk of the Devils, as always. Thank you, Carl. Thank you, Laurie. Thank you, Andy. And we'll speak to you again after Sunday. Thanks for listening. Take care. Bye-bye.

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