Back to reality: Wolves win at Old Trafford
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This is Talk of the Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. We're back and we're back to earth with a bump, aren't we? Following on from all the excitement from Thursday night against Lyon, we're back in the Premier League on Sunday and back to a 1-0 home defeat to Wolves. We'll reflect on all the details of that, including the debut for Tyler Fredrickson and another impressive showing from Harry Amas.

as well but we will look back on Thursday it was very fresh very raw when we recorded the last podcast we had such a fantastic reaction from all of you to it loads of brilliant messages so we'll dwell a little bit on that because quite frankly we all want to move on quite quickly from Sunday certainly before we get into the podcast though I want to introduce Laurie and Andy we want to take a moment to pay tribute to Joe Thompson the former United youngster who passed away last week at the age of 36.

Joe was someone we all knew. He was a lovely lad with a truly infectious positivity. His battle with cancer and his approach to it, fighting the disease, will have undoubtedly helped and inspired a lot of people. The last time I saw him, it was the day before he took on a 21-mile walk from Old Trafford to Spotland, Rochdale's ground, where, of course, he became diagnosed.

a Dale legend. He was raising money and awareness for the treatment of his condition, despite the fact that it was a real struggle for him. He raised a lot of money and, of course, did a lot of good as well. He was first diagnosed with blood cancer at only 23. He had to stop playing at the time, but fought back to return to pro football, scoring the goal that saved Rochdale from relegation from League One. He worked closely with United in recent years as well on the United Once, United Forever project, which provides aftercare for academy players. And I know Rochdale

he was making a huge difference with that work and I'm sure that work will continue to make a huge difference to the younger players at the club as well which is typical of Joe. Laurie a lovely lad and extremely sad news Really really sad real shock to me actually because I know that he'd beaten it twice before and I'd seen him at Old Trafford actually at

a charity dinner in November and he was looking great. You know, he was chatting to me. He was sort of had a positive mindset about it all. He's obviously very public with his children and his wife and they've got a lovely family there as well. And so my heart goes out to them because he's just such a nice guy. Everybody that I know that knows him had,

positive words to say about him he touched a lot of people he also played in a pitch day with us at the end of the season I think it was 2023 obviously he was at United Academy but hadn't actually played for United and then he was able to score a couple of goals at the Stretford end and he was absolutely buzzing about it and even though he's had this career in the game as a full-time professional still that joy that he had to score at Old Trafford was was uh so such a blessing to see really so yeah my heart goes out to his family uh and what a great guy he was

It's tragic news. I thought the way the club covered it was excellent. I echo what Laurie says about his family, Joe's wife Chantal and their two daughters came to see me and my family in 2023. Lovely people, huge enthusiasm for life, for the world.

I did a trip with Joe to Finland in 2022. Top footballer, top lad. It's just heartbreaking. Joe left a big impact and he led a brilliant life. But it is just absolutely heartbreaking when someone passes away so young with two young children as well. My love goes out to Chantal and to the girls and to the people who were close to Joe.

Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Laurie. And yeah, I echo the thoughts as well. Our thoughts are with Chantel and Joe's two lovely daughters as well. Let's talk about Manchester United 0-1 Wolves on Sunday then. It was the match that, well, it was the line-up I think that we probably half expected considering Ruben Amarin's comments following the victory over Lyon on Thursday night. Was it the...

Was it the people that you expected to be brought in, Laurie? No, I have to admit, I didn't anticipate Tyler Fredrickson coming in. Obviously, he has been at United for a long time, nearly played in the FA Youth Cup final, but had to miss that game. And he plays throughout the whole run of that match.

to winning that competition. So he's been around for quite a while at United and 20 years old, but he'd not been in the squads before that point, you know, sort of knocking on the door. It felt like I think he was maybe in the Spurs squad, to be fair. But yeah, so it was a bit of a surprise seeing him. I suppose that's Amrin making sure that Luke Shaw gets a rest after coming back. They're obviously handling him very carefully. So he was just

wasn't going to feature in the game. So that sort of left centre-back role was perhaps vacant. Harry Maguire, likewise, you've got to kind of wrap him in cotton wool given the impact he can make from set pieces and going up top, as bizarre as it sounds. So yeah, in he came. I thought he did really well, actually. I thought he looked pretty accomplished on the ball and making an impression, winning the ball back against Wolves players at different moments. Harry Amos was one I think we kind of all expected and it was good to see him

get another start. And I thought it was brilliant, actually, probably United's best performer, really. You know, that kind of technique in close quarters, the driving runs, you know, sort of good defensive contributions, actually, which I think maybe he got a little bit caught out with away at Newcastle. So, yeah, I thought it was a really promising game from Amas, actually. And I know we've been kind of speaking about him for a little bit, but it feels like at least at this end of the season, he might get a chance to sort of prove that he's worth playing.

having in the first team picture next season. Yeah, Andy, you were at the game. I mean, what was the feeling around these young players? Because undoubtedly they were the highlight, really, of what was a pretty forgettable 90 minutes again. Yeah, they were the best two players. There was a real after-the-Lord-Mare show feeling about it. It's like with the games in the late 80s when Liverpool had run away with the league and a team comes to Old Trafford and it just doesn't matter and it felt like that. It was actually nice because...

There wasn't the pressure that had been there in previous league games and especially on Thursday. It was a beautiful day in Manchester. Obviously, it was another sellout crowd. Honestly, I met people from around the world, people who know that it's Easter, that they're going to have holidays. I met people from Iran, the US, Ireland, which is pretty normal, from France, from Dubai, from Australia. I just felt sorry for these people.

because once again Manchester United failed to score that's one goal in the last four league games now I think they used a pool of goals in the seven minute spell against Lyon I thought Frederiksen

he's overcome some pretty bad injuries he did nothing wrong at all he was pretty brave wolves were trying to play the ball over the top to kunya and he read it well um playing along on the left with a mass is interesting because sometimes when you put young players on they double you up with a more experienced player but i agree with lori harry amass was the best player high and wide he worked hard but good crossing

and he showed his quick feet and didn't always take the easy option the easy route he was really composed there was one time in the second half where he stopped a Wolves attack by heading the ball so he showed different parts to his game but it was another defeat another defeat at Old Trafford it's just been the worst season by such a such a long way and uh

It all feels a little bit flat, but there's a huge but. The season is still alive because we're still in Europe. Yeah, God bless that comeback the other night. Imagine how we'd be feeling now talking about that result and that performance if we hadn't gone through. There's a question here from Jeff, actually, who says he's frustrated in Canada. Laurie, why has it been decided with six matches to go that the Premier League doesn't matter? Rotate and rest, yes, but to promote the attitude that the Premier League doesn't matter is upsetting.

I'm not sure the message is that it doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter as much. Is that fair? I think that he's just obviously making the logical, practical decision to focus energies on the Europa League. So players like Bruno Fernandes do need a rest. You know, he's obviously been...

at the end of his exertions for a long time, I would say. And yeah, he can keep going, but I think it's a prudent decision to take him out of the starting line-up. But totally to the listener's point, I think that United can't just sort of toss this off because each place is worth £2.8 million in prize money. They could finish 17th. That is a stark reality now with West Ham picking up a point. I mean, it's lucky that West Ham ended up drawing against Southampton because...

I think they would be above United now, right? Wolves are right there. Tottenham, obviously, could equally pick up points. So, yeah, that 17th place, and that would be embarrassing for United to finish there. So I do think that that is something significant to play for.

I do also just on the other side of things, you know, I accept that United's focus has to be the Europa League because that is their only avenue into the Champions League, into the money, into the prestige, into Amarant having a trophy and having a bit more credibility because, you know, if he tries to play his best 11 against Wolves, they might still lose. You know, there's no guarantee that United's best 11 beats Wolves at this stage. Like it's that bad. Um,

And he can't really rotate that many players. I mean, maybe to your point, your first question about the kids, I thought maybe Jadon Camerson might get a bit of a run out, the right back that can clearly play right wing back, because obviously Dalot didn't feature, but then he obviously wanted Masraoui there, a bit more experience. And he's trying to blend a bit of fresh legs in there with people that have obviously played...

long time so they can hopefully have that balance so I could understand where his line-up was coming from I don't think he'll be the

He won't be playing the kids all out in a game. I can't see that. Unless that Chelsea game, if United do get through to the final, maybe that's the one where... I remember Fergie played a load of kids, didn't he, at Hull that season? I think, was it before the Champions League final, that one? So maybe that comes into the reckoning at that point. But I agree, it must be such a frustrating feeling for fans watching this because, as Andy says, a 15th defeat in the league...

13 games without scoring. I mean, that is embarrassing. But that being said, I mean, Ghana actually had a hat-trick of crosses that should have been scored. You know, they should really have actually won that game. They actually played okay. It was just then Wolves had that quality moment with Sarabia. I just want to roll back on your exaggeration for a moment, Laurie. West Ham would still be below Manchester United, thanks to United's mighty goal difference of minus eight. So, you know, just be careful of how much you exaggerate the position.

Sorry Andy, you were going to say? United got into some good positions, there was some good play, it all felt pretty flat. Wolves weren't particularly impressive at all and Sarabia's free kick, we've seen him do that throughout his career. He was at PSG only two years ago, that was the only real moment of quality in the entire game.

But scoring goals is a massive problem. Hoyland almost got his studs, I think it was to a Garnaccio cross in the second half. And an informed striker would have got that. If you're missing your other centre forward, Harry Maguire, then you're going to struggle because you're thinking where are the goals coming from? And...

Garnaccio, he got better in the second half, but he was quiet in the first half. But he was putting those crosses in, so there were some opportunities. But then I look in the middle at Eriksen, Ugarte, and I just wonder how good or how bad this Manchester United team are. Because Wolves have beaten United home and away now for the first time since 1981. Given that Wolves went down and played second, third and fourth tier football, they weren't always around to be the resurgent side that they are now.

But you look at what their manager has done to them. That was their fifth win on the trot. That's their best run in the top flight since 1972. That shows what a manager can do. And I think people were hoping for more

More of that from Ruben Amarin. But it's gone the other way. Wolves could finish above Manchester United. Wolves' manager took charge in December. They were 13 points behind Manchester United. The league form has been horrendous. Yeah, I mean, that's a stark contrast for Ruben Amarin, Laurie, isn't it, really? Having a manager come into, on paper, a worse side in a worse position than...

and rejuvenate them in a way that Amarant's just not been able to do with Manchester United in the Premier League. And it's changing system and it's playing a similar way actually to Amarant's system like they did yesterday. It's an uncomfortable comparison, I suppose. Has he changed system though? It's pretty much the Wolves system that they were playing before, isn't it? This is...

something that Ruben Amrit they've fluctuated yeah they have fluctuated from different systems so at least they had some experience of playing free at the back previously but again maybe that's uncomfortable in itself that this Wolves side are comfortable playing in multiple formations and are

able to change depending on what a manager wants for a specific game. I mean, obviously that's what United should be able to do as well. And that's the idea for going into the summer where you're questioning, are you really going to be buying players for this system specifically with this head coach in mind, given the form has been so bad and given you can't really guarantee if he, well, if he continues on like this, then how can you guarantee that he stays? So are you going to buy players specifically for him? What the idea is, is that,

and let's see, it's easier said than done, is that you buy players that are capable of switching formations if needs be. It's more the athleticism of the player involved that they want to hone in on or the quality, obviously the technique ability that they've got. So yeah, the idea is that they buy players that could fit into different systems. But yeah, it is an uncomfortable comparison when you look at United winnings

were four points off the Champions League places when Ruben Amarin took over. And okay, I know it was a condensed league picture at that point where they were obviously below halfway, but the idea was that he could rejuvenate them to get into the European places, not go the opposite way. He can still get them in the Champions League. Don't be like that. Well, that's it. And that does colour everything at the moment. We kind of have to caveat...

But I mean, there is that question. I mean, how far have expectations, how far have standards dropped that this is kind of being spoken about in a sort of understanding fashion? You know, United were eighth last season and Ericsson-Harg was getting absolutely torn apart, you know, sort of rightly so really. And okay, he obviously started this season. So you could...

point fingers there but equally Ruben Amorim has had a good chunk of time now and yeah he's changing systems he's got players that aren't on form that aren't suited to his system that perhaps never will be and obviously that's something that could be addressed in the summer but it is certainly a lot worse than anybody was anticipating. Yeah sort of shrugging our shoulders at the prospect of finishing 17th which at the start of the season would have been

absolutely unthinkable Robbie has been in touch he says Robbie like Cobby which is an interesting twist thank you Robbie what are we to make of Ruben Amerin looking at the table now it's quite likely my gut says 20% chance well Robbie that's not quite likely that's possible but I'm not going to split hairs United finished 17th 17th at the very least it's still possible and yet I still believe for some reason and then he asks if he wasn't so charming and handsome would he still be in a job I

I don't think he can have any complaints about the support that he's had internally. From his perspective, he wanted to wait until the end of the season. It's been extremely difficult for him. December was as bad as it's got, but it hasn't really picked up since. The fact that Manchester United have not managed to win consecutive league games is a horrific stat. A lack of goals.

Is he getting more out of players? Not really. The Europa League could save him, like the FA Cup saved Sir Alex Ferguson in 1990. You'd like to think that with more time, with more of his players, with a full pre-season, with a chance to implement his system, a chance to move players on who are out of contract. So you had lads yesterday starting a game like Victor Lindelof, Christian Eriksen. They're going to be out of contract. They're not going to be around next season. There may be others.

You'd think being glass half full at Manchester United should improve. But my worry is you get to October and November, just like we did with Eric Ten Hag last season, and the team are still wholly unconvincing. And the pressure...

just becomes really really strong the fans have been so supportive of Ruben Amerin I'm getting commissioned to write articles saying like they wanted it for the athletic last week why are Manchester United fans singing so defiantly against a manager who to the outsider looks like he's failing there's lots of reasons for that there's very little appetite for another change of manager

and Ruben Amarin's brutal honesty I think people appreciate that rather than his good looks but it has to improve I couldn't see him being in a job if the team were 15th this time next year the wider football world are absolutely baffled how he's still in a job when the team are so bad this year we all know the reasons why I'm glad that he stayed in a job

I've been very supportive of him. I think this podcast has as well. But it has to improve next season. And I think it will, but it has to. Just on the fans as well, I was noticing Chelsea fans at Fulham at half-time, Endemirescu was getting booed off and getting called a wanker. And they ended up winning the game and they're fifth in the league. It's like you just get a total contrast of approach. Okay, maybe there's...

all different reasons for that. You know, Chelsea fans obviously annoyed at the ownership and various things that are going on there. But at the same time, the manager, the head coach is getting it. Whereas United, I think that would never really be the case, would it? No matter how bad it got. And obviously it's pretty bad right now in the Premier League. So yeah, just an interesting juxtaposition, I suppose.

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OK, before we cheer ourselves up then and talk about Leon again, let's talk about the centre-forward, Laurie. I mean, we've talked a lot about Rasmus Hoyland throughout this season, really. We've worked on the defence for Rasmus Hoyland, the prosecution of Rasmus Hoyland. We've done everything, really, on this topic. And he's still struggling and the same issues are still there.

And articles are still being written and we're still going to have to talk about it on the podcast. I mean, I'm lost in the conversation around Rosmus Hoyle and I feel as lost as he looks playing at the moment for United, to be honest. Yeah, I think that's it as well. That feeling of...

yeah, being lost because he seems to not have that conviction of his movement. I mean, he actually did a really great bit of skill, didn't he, against Wolves to kind of burst down the line, lovely little backheel, but in the end didn't get a shot away to any meaningful impact. So,

He's kind of got bits to his game that you're thinking, yeah, just go more onto that. But the crucial edge to it up top doesn't seem to be there. There was obviously that moment against Lyon where he kicks the post in anger because he's not been passed to, I think it was by Garnaccio again. It was. When I was looking at it, it wasn't like he was demanding the ball. It wasn't like he was making an aggressive run to clearly tell Garnaccio, you have to pass it to me now.

okay, maybe that's because he's been frustrated over multiple times of doing that and not getting the ball, but it felt a little bit performative, the kind of kick of the post and sort of, I am making these runs, he's not passing to me. So, okay, maybe that's unfair, but it feels like,

I don't know how does that resolve itself I don't know because obviously the record at the moment is really bad so bad I mean you think back to last season though it was actually sort of pretty good you know debut season in the Premier League 10 goals in 30 games okay it's not what a United number 9 should be doing and

not one that's cost that much money from Atalanta, £72 million deal. But for a 21-year-old into England for his first season, I thought it was a pretty good record. I think overall, 16 goals in 43 games. That was something to build on. It's now eight goals in 45 games and obviously five of those have come in the Europa League. So three goals in 28 games as a striker at Man United in the Premier League is disastrous. You can't...

that's why United are where they are right now and obviously Joshua Xerxes contributed to that or not and likewise Alejandro Garnaccio so these players that you need to get goals from just haven't done so

So, yeah, where does that leave them? I mean, it does leave a big question mark over what they're going to do in the summer with him. You know, could they try to sell him? I mean, it's going to cost an awful lot of money if they want to recoup some of the finances really for him because obviously you look at PSR and usually they spread out the payments in amortization over length of the contract. So to not take a hit on that, they'd need to get a chunky amount of money in, let alone then the actual cash levels, just having the money in, you know, for...

the pure fact of having money in your bank.

So, yeah, I think it's a real difficult situation and one that I think ultimately at this point now it's more on Hoyland. I know he's 22, he's young, but it's more on him, I think, to be doing better in scoring goals than perhaps the team. Why so strong in your assertion that it's his fault? Well, I've not been that strong. I think I've sort of tried to talk around it a little bit, but I think that you see him, he should be doing more than what he is, I think.

He's been given a lot of opportunities in games, playing back-to-back-to-back. We've already discussed the fact that he goes for high balls and tries to muscle the defender rather than try and control it and bring others into play. I totally accept that he's not had the ball in key moments and I think we've backed him on that. But I think it's getting to the point now where you have to, as yourself, take some

responsibility for it and own it. I don't know, I see too many times where he doesn't quite show for the ball in dangerous moments and then is looking to point the blame at somebody else. There was a moment after the half-time yesterday, 10 minutes into the second half, where

where he ran towards goal, and it was one of those great Old Trafford roars. But he showed too much of the ball, and he didn't get a shot away. And a striker in form would have done that. And then five or ten minutes later, he did really well to make a run from the halfway line to get into a position to meet a cross, but he didn't quite meet the cross. And we're getting that every single game. The balls aren't falling to him, but then an in-form striker...

would make the balls fall to him. He was applauded off with 20 minutes to play. Not everyone standing up, raucous applause for him, but he wasn't booed. So he's another one who cannot fault the support that he has had from the supporters. Yeah, it's more feeling sorry for him, Laurie, in a way, isn't it? Everyone's frustrated.

with the performances, but you know that there needs to be more from him even between now and the end of the season. If United are going to win the Europa League, they're going to need him to contribute more than he's doing at the minute, aren't they? And that's kind of the conundrum for Amorim because you could easily drop him for Chido Obi if you wanted to for the Bournemouth and Brentford games coming up and claim that you're saving Hoyle for the Europa League games against Athletic Club, but you need him to find some sort of rhythm, some sort of...

of confidence from somewhere don't you yeah you do and I would be surprised if he comes out really I mean I know that you're sort of risking you know if you pick someone with a muscle injury then you really are screwed aren't you when he went down in the first half yesterday you were like oh no and

I even got an accio went down, didn't he, for a little bit with a sort of knock. But each time you're sort of on edge, aren't you? Because it's got to that threadbare nature of the squad, particularly in the attacking quarters, even though they're not scoring, you know, you obviously need these guys on there. And he played well against Lyon, you know, he was doing the right kind of things. It's just, again, those moments where you need somebody to be clinical or demand the ball, I don't think he's quite there. The timing's off, isn't it? Some of the runs are too early and some of the runs are too late. Yeah.

It's like he doesn't believe, which is obviously an issue with not having been given the ball in those moments when you've done it previously. So I get, it's not, I'm not saying this is all his fault, but obviously I just think that you have to ultimately, you know,

be held accountable for yourself as well at moments and I do think back to that Porto game away and him and Rashford combined really nicely and that was that was Hoyland at his best really you know sort of getting the ball and driving with it and maybe he can play himself into a little bit of form enough form just so that against Athletic Club he

he can make an impact. I don't think you should take him out of the firing line. I think you should keep him in there because, obviously, one, you haven't really got any other options. If you're going to put Chido when he can't play in the Europa, so there's not really loads of points to that. And I just think that he just needs something to turn for him. It was like when he wasn't scoring in the Premier League in his first season and I think got really unlucky. I'm going to bring it up again, that Brighton game where the ball did not go out

But he obviously in the end just needed something just to fall for him. And then he hit a streak of form. And that's what he did at Atalanta as well. He hit a streak of form. So, you know, I think try and play him into that burst of scoring if you can. Yeah, it's annoying the timing of the international break in some ways because having got that goal at Leicester,

I know he then went and scored against Portugal, I suppose, for Denmark. So it kind of counters my point a little bit. But you'd have thought if there was another United game three days later, that that might have helped him build some sort of rhythm. We've had a question from Patrick, Andy. He says, should Harry Maguire be United's striker for the rest of the season? I'm only half kidding. He does give us something different up top. I like the point that half kidding because...

Maguire when we spoke to him after the game on Thursday basically said I am available and he's up for it he's up for it and he is a goal threat you know we've seen several times this season was it Porto again that Porto game the more I look back at that Porto game the more I

see good moments. Marcus Rashford had one of his best games for Manchester United. Did he get taken off at half-time in that game, Rashford? Yeah, yeah, for not defending to Eric Ten Hag's liking. But the way United were hitting long balls to him, but the fact that Porto were allowed to score the three goals was probably a sign of things to come.

I can see a point 10 minutes before the end of the Europa League final in Bilbao. Big Harry gets sent on up front, gets the winner. I'm absolutely dreaming that. It's happening, isn't it? It's going to be really difficult to reach that final because at some point someone's got to score a goal to get past Athletic Club to get there. Maybe that's his moment. He's got a touch of the Steve Bruce's. I think the 1990-91 season, Bruce scored 17 goals. Now, loads of them were penalties. Yeah.

But don't dismiss the goal-scoring defender. Let Harry take the pens. He's good at them. Yeah. Sweet. No problem. What a turnaround that'll be. The final penalty in Bilbao to lift the European trophy. Yeah. Well, let's hope they even get the opportunity for these sort of stories to have some sort of platform of reality. Rashford, we've mentioned a couple of times in our conversations that

Ryan's asked, well, we know the answer to this, is it possible to recall Rashford? Not now, no. He obviously can come back at the end of the season when his loan's up. He said, we are bloody light on forwards, which is definitely true. I'd take him back in a heartbeat for this running personally. Yeah, it does make you wonder, Laurie, a little bit, doesn't it, about

the impact he could have but I still feel like the stuff that he's doing at Villa isn't that different to what he's doing at United to be brutally honest No I don't think it is he's obviously a very talented footballer and we saw that second half against PSG at Villa Park he exploded into life that assist for Consor's goal was I think a beauty but in the first half he lost the ball hadn't he and you know there's elements where you're seeing that kind of

the things he was doing on the pitch for United that we'd get criticism for, it kind of doesn't get that much focus because it's Aston Villa. 100%. Because Villa fans want to be, they're positive about the game. They're thinking this is fantastic that we're even in the Champions League and we're kind of taking it to PSG. So there's a different mentality around what players are then doing on the pitch, in my opinion.

But yeah, I think clearly Amarin took a decision that he could not tolerate what Rashford was doing in the training and outside of the game. And so...

yeah, they can maybe have a conversation around that come summer. But equally, I just think that United have agreed to sell Rashford basically, haven't they? £40 million loan option from Villa. And so that kind of sets the standard from a club point of view as well. So I can't see any world really in which Rashford plays for United again, because if you've got Amre in there, you've got the same people in charge of the club.

And I think he clearly is enjoying football at least a bit more at Villa. So you kind of think, does that actually benefit him as well? I was a little bit surprised though. I mean, he started both home and away against PSG. Ollie Watkins on the bench. And I totally understood where he was coming from when he said after the game against Newcastle that he was fuming to be left out because he'd got them...

there he's not been in bad form I think he scored 15 Premier League goals this season Oli Watkins and so to then get left out of the two biggest matches of the season I was really surprised at so well if you believe some of the gossip columns it's a good thing for United because it's pushing Oli Watkins closer to his Old Trafford move finally

What do we reckon? I mean, they have looked at it previously. I've taken a heartbeat, to be honest. I'm not saying that the story's true, but yeah. It'd be an interesting one. I don't know how that would actually work in practice in terms of a so-called swap. I mean, maybe you obviously could figure it out between two clubs, but I've liked him for quite a long time. He seems like a really smart player who clearly can take shots from different angles. He's got that running in behind. Yeah, I mean, I think he's 29 now. So obviously the...

you know, the kind of autumn of his career at least. But yeah, clearly a quality player. As we said on this podcast at the time, United asked to be kept aware of what his movements were going to be just before he went from Brentford to Villa. United passed on the option of going only further to that. But is that still relevant? All of the people who were involved at the time have now left Manchester United. So...

that's just a moment in history that didn't happen. And it was an expensive transfer wasn't it at the time for Villa to go for a player that had been in the Championship but obviously he's paid it back tenfold really. Yeah, more realistic options for United maybe. You never know what Watkins could develop but

for the information that you have at the moment, Laurie. We've seen the article on The Athletic. I've tried to get it into about the last four podcasts and not been able to. But let's talk about it. Mateus Cunha, United fans had a sight of yesterday at Old Trafford. I saw analysis on social media of him waving at home fans after the warm-up and having a conversation with Casemiro after the final whistle, which some people seem to have taken as surefire signs that he is headed for Old Trafford this summer.

The article again mentions Liam De Lappe, there's Victor Osherman in the background as well. How do you see the striker search now? Yeah, well, the crucial point, I suppose, with the story was that it would be if United are able to do it, and obviously it's a big if, but I think

I think the plan would be Liam De Lappe, obviously he's got this release clause in his contracts when it's which go down, £30 million we believe it is, but there's obviously going to be some agent fees as well, probably not insignificant. I think every club knows the parameters of that deal and it's then going to be up to them

them to talk to Liam DeLapp and he's going to make a decision really where he goes after that point so maybe a bit of an audition maybe there comes into play some kind of financial incentive along the way obviously wage package that kind of thing so that would be the ideal

from United's point of view, of a striker. And obviously we can debate that, can't we? You know, he's got, I think, 12 Premier League goals this season in a struggling side, but one that he obviously has been engineered into getting chances with. Hoyland obviously posted, we just said there, 10 Premier League goals last season as a 21-year-old. So there's an equivalent there, but I think De Lappe looks a bit more physically...

commanding maybe and kind of more knowing of himself at the moment. So anyway, that would be the kind of number one striker choice, I believe. And then Kunja would be a number 10 option, would be that addition to De Lappe. He's got a release clause as well, 62.5 million that he signed into his contract in January when there was that interest in him. He's on decent money already though as well. I think it's around 150 grand a week. So that is something to be considered. Although I don't think any club

that he's able to pay the release clause should be having issues with the salary. Obviously, that's part of the course at United, but how much of an increase could they actually offer him given Ratcliffe's decision or impetus to try and keep the wage bill measured?

but I think that's at least you know he would be assigning in the Bruno Fernandes mould where it's a player that comes in hits the ground running straight away that would be the plan anyway and would stay at United for his career essentially because there's not really much resale value he's 25 I think turning 26 soon so

I thought he did pretty well at Old Trafford. Yes, he obviously won the free kick that Sorabia scored from with that kind of trademark drive from midfield. He's played well against United repeatedly. So, yeah, let's see how that develops. He's another player that's been linked in the past as well. I think with Cunha though, Andy, he's had his issues this season. He's had his disciplinary problems. There's been some pretty controversial comments as we've gone along as well. And as far as I understand it, United's

search this summer for new talent is obviously about value and it's obviously about talent but it's also about sourcing the right sort of characters as well considering the stand that we've just been talking about that Ruben Amerin's made with Marcus Rashford and previous managers have made with previous players too so it's

Is his character in question a little bit, maybe, considering the campaign he's had? Yes. I was at Wolves a couple of months ago. I would say yes to that. I probably would have said yes if you'd asked me whether Eric Cantona's character was in question before he came to Manchester United as well. I think with Kunio's top, top play in terms of his technical ability, Manchester United are looking at several different players, but so much

is up in the air because it is dependent on Champions League qualification next year. It's not just transfer fees either. I know they were looking at one player and still are, but he's paid a fortune. I need to stand some of this up, so I'm not going to start naming them on here. So the wages that the players are on at other clubs are an issue in this environment for Manchester United. The middle is somewhere where Manchester United are looking at

I know we've talked a little bit about goalkeepers in the past. I don't think that's a priority at the moment. But if Inanna was to move on, for example, then goalkeepers are an area where you could see some movement as well. And De Lappe is exactly as Laurie has said consistently about him. And he's done exceptionally well for Ipswich Town. We know what the release clause is there.

Unfortunately for Manchester United, it's not the club that everyone wants to go to anymore. So he would have a choice and United would likely be one of them. When we did the Cunha story, I think the reaction from the fans was overwhelmingly positive. That's interesting to know. And I know you shouldn't just make signings based on what fans want. It needs to fit. But I think it would certainly point to

who has done it in the Premier League in two seasons now clearly has talent clearly has that aggression in his game and I think there's a difference between being someone who's combustible and clearly a couple of the things that he did this season to get banned you know really

ripping the glasses off the Ipswich Town staff member and getting into it with Kirkers after the event, I think are obviously bad. But I think there's a difference between that and then sort of training well and just having this kind of streak in you. The people that I've spoken to that understand Kunja sort of think that he's very diligent in his football and

okay, maybe might not track back and do the defensive work as much as you might like. So that's one perhaps aspect to just consider. But he's absolutely committed to football and wants to better himself. And he's made those kind of statements, hasn't he? Sort of on Instagram that I think riled the Wolves fans up and he's tried to apologise a bit around that as well. But then he's gone and produced the goods. You know, he scored a fantastic goal against Tottenham, didn't he? Sort of seizing on the ball and running through and finishing. Yeah.

makes contribution against United or Trafford so I think he's obviously someone that has quality and has history playing in that number 10 role in a 3-4-2-1 so yeah I think I can see the logic behind it The NBA playoffs are here and so is the Athletic NBA Daily Need a fresh fun take on last night's action? We've got every dunk buzzer beater and game changing play covered

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I feel like the bubble's been popped a little bit by Sunday, Laurie. I don't know what you think, but Thursday was incredible, wasn't it? And the reaction from everyone as well. Thank you so much. I've never had so many messages about the podcast before. It was absolutely brilliant to bask in that throughout sort of Friday and a little bit of Easter weekend as well. Yeah, and the comments on the different platforms, Spotify and the Athletic app. I think people, we really appreciate when you do leave the comments. We do read them when we can. So yeah, the comments

I think people just wanted to celebrate it a bit more, didn't they, in every different way you can do. So obviously we're very privileged to be able to watch that live and then do it at Old Trafford as well. But I've been scrolling back through a couple of my videos that I took from the night, just noticing little different bits of the celebrations because it was absolute chaos. You know, it was...

um the piece i did was a portrait of pandemonium where it was a fun thing nice line by the way do you think you like that well do you know what then people made point of that pandemonium was actually coined by john milton in paradise lost and it's the capital of hell which is where devils reside so it kind of does work you know red devils it's we're in hell but you know there's kind of chaos going on and there's some you knew that when you wrote it right i absolutely did know that yeah yeah for sure

So I'm glad that people picked up on that reference. But it was, yeah, I just, I keep noticing little things that have happened in that moment where, you know, you've got Onana sprinting off or you've got Garnaccio flopping onto Bruno at the end of the game at full time. I mean, he absolutely reveled in it, you know, diving into the fans, sprinting from the substitutes bench to kind of just be,

lying on them like a rock star so uh and i did you steal did you see i stole your seal line for casimiro as well ian yeah i'll have that one there was a video eventually online wasn't there which half showed the seal performance the sea world showtime performance from casimiro um

I can still see his face in my mind's eye. It looked like he'd had a night at Man U Mission or something like that, not Old Trafford to be fair. He was completely out of it. It was absolutely brilliant that someone of that experience and that standing can just completely lose themselves like we all did. Andy, you've written an article actually about United's greatest European comebacks. It's on The Athletic. Yeah.

It's right up there, isn't it? I mean, what I've thought has been brilliant in the aftermath of this is that so many supporters from other teams have been so keen to say, why are you celebrating so much? It's only the quarterfinal of the Europa League. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're rubbish. When could we last boil piss like this? This is exactly what United have done brilliantly over the years. And...

Yeah, OK, it's not the Champions League final like in 99, but bloody hell, it felt like it for a bit, didn't it? Oh, it was brilliant. I don't think I will ever listen to an opposing fan telling me how I should or shouldn't support my football club. Your opinion is completely irrelevant. Just save the energy. Don't type it. Don't speak it. I don't care what you think. I did care on Thursday night inside Old Trafford.

People say they might have fallen. Well, no shit. Just look at the league table. What do you want us to do? Just give up on cup competitions. Are we not allowed to enjoy going to games? Are we not allowed to enjoy the rare wins? And in fact, because they're so rare, you enjoy them more. But the way that game went, 2-0 up, 4-2 down,

In hindsight, I think since Thursday, the thing that's worried me most is how effective Lyon's substitutions were and how Paolo Fonseca...

changed the game and Ruben Amarin was unable to do so. That really has worried me for a couple of days now. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Pushing Maguire up front, that worked, didn't it? Yeah, all right. Sorry, just in behind Maguire. Yeah, okay, that's a fair point. And Manchester United did win the game. So in that article, I put it sixth. Sixth in the terms of European comebacks. Number one was very obvious, 26th of May, 1999. And then there's some belters in there.

in Turin, Old Trafford against Barcelona, Paris 2019, Madrid 1968, there's plenty in there and I spoke to some of the relevant people as well and I think it's fit to be up there and it isn't the Champions League, it isn't a semi-final, it isn't a final but

I know how we felt the other night and it was absolutely brilliant. And to see the reaction of non-Manchester United fans is really funny because they're like, why is this even headline news? Why are people talking about it? Well, you might find that the biggest football club...

arguably in the world attracts the big headlines and dominates the the news landscape because there's more interest in it so it's just a pretty simple way of looking at that but it was top it was the the highlight of the season and i hope it it was i hope it was a turning point i hope that

for the fifth time in this podcast, Manchester United win the Europa League. And if there's a bit of desperation getting into my cold, filled voice, then, well, I'm a bit desperate. We understand why. Yeah. Like I said, loads of messages. I'm sorry that we can't read all of them out or reflect on the sentiment in all of them. But the early leavers is a category that we've enjoyed reading about, certainly. And here's a flavour of that. So this is Matt saying,

Left the game after they went 4-2 up. I've never, ever done that before. I even stayed until the final whistle when Liverpool did us 5-0 at home. I'm so happy we won, but it feels like a loss in my heart. Cheer me up. Have you ever left anything early and regretted it? No, Matt. Ragnar from Iceland. I was in a goddamn sour mood tonight and powered down the telly at 2-4. Went to the office to tie a few loose ends up, but when I returned home, I opened up a message from my wife's nephew saying,

That's not a punishment. That was great, yeah. They're people who've watched it on TV. Powered down the telly. You mean you turn the TV off? No.

I've been tracking down people who travelled eight hours to Old Trafford who left early. Just watch this space on the athletic level. Why can't you leave after travelling that far? There's that clip, isn't there, of the fans in the Munich tunnel that have kind of left the ground, or left their seats at least, and then they've seen the TV and they're clamouring round, I don't know, it's the director's box or something, and then they're all cheering at 5-4. But obviously they can't get back in the stadium at that point, can they? Do you know, I need to hold my hands up here, so...

I've never done that, but I very nearly did it for the Coventry Cup.

semi-final last season hands up full disclosure I left my seat when they scored in extra time walked towards the concourse and was probably about two steps away from an escalator out of the stadium when someone shouted it's offside bloody hell it's offside right get back in again that's the only time I've ever done it and I feel dirty talking about it I felt terrible at the time and

I will never do it again. You didn't do it in the Nou Camp, did you Ian? So that's the main thing. Absolutely not. And I didn't do it at Old Trafford the other night either. So Matt, hold your head in shame, my friend. And you didn't even do it to get over to us earlier. You know, you could have been like, right, I'll get over to the lads, you know, just kind of game over it, you know. Yeah, I could have done that. Get set up.

Did you see somebody pointed out a post on Reddit to me where basically somebody had been late to the game, so switched it on when it was already 2-0 United, watched Lyon score four goals and then turned it off at that point. So they missed all five United goals. I mean, that's what you get for turning up late and leaving early, you know. But it's just a funny way the goals went in, right? Yeah, that is unbelievable. You can't really call yourself a fan if you just flick into a game and flick out of a game.

I've been speaking to people who were there and the self-loathing they've got because they left early is absolutely fantastic. How do you come to terms with that? It'll never happen again. You'll never get that back ever again. There'll never be a time where United are in that circumstance and do that again. We read it out, didn't we? The only team ever to score two goals in the 120th minute of a European major tie. To score three goals...

Three goals with about, what, six minutes of extra time left. I mean, this is a team, you talked before about how bad they've been in front of goal this season in the Premier League. 13 matches they haven't scored. In fact, in Critch's article reflecting on the game at the weekend, we didn't mention this in the first section, if you take away the goals that United have scored against the bottom three this season, they've got 22 in the entire campaign against the other 17 and that's the worst record in the league this season.

And that team, with no forwards, no strikers, no hope, nothing, managed to do what they did. Just absolutely incredible. Some people managed to celebrate the birthday as well whilst this game was going on. So what a way to spend my daughter Annabelle's 12th birthday breakfast on Good Friday morning here in New Zealand. This is from Will. Reminiscent of another quarterfinal escape around a year ago, let's hope we can go on to a similar conclusion to this competition.

My wife's pregnant with twins. This is from Ahmed. Begrudgingly got us tickets to the game last night. She's not normally a big football fan, but last night was absolutely crazy. At 4-2 down, my wife couldn't believe how bad we were. But when we turned it around, we were hugging strangers next to us and she was joining in with all the chants. Safe to say my wife is now a committed United fan. And to be honest, if she's pregnant...

with twins it's quite good that she managed to last the full 120 minutes without going into labour very impressive we've also got a section called the Andy Mitten fan club Andy so this is from Peter chatted to Andy outside the ground before the game I'm a lifelong United fan and with my wife from Lyon Andy responded hope you enjoy the game mate

You not so much, talking about his wife. Quiet drive home, but pleased to announce that we are still married just. Best noise at Old Trafford I've ever experienced in 30 years of going. Andy, come on. I remember it. They were really nice. I'm not going to tell a Leon fan that he hopes she has a good night, am I? You could, just out of politeness, maybe. No, I'm with Andy here. Hope you have a terrible night. This is from Mark. Took my lads to the game last night. Older boy, Max, listens to the pod every week. Hello, Max.

Was his highlight the comeback or the time he spent with dad? No, it was saying hello to Andy Mitton. His day was made. What a game. If you read this out on the podcast, please tell Max's mum to let him off school for the semi-final. Max's mum, Andy, what does she need to do? You need to let him off school for the semi-final. It's good parenting skills. Character building. You won't regret it. Absolutely not.

Some other observations. This is interesting, Laurie. This is from Phil. It's been 493 calendar days since we last lost in Europe. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Good point. Yeah. That's a long time. Exactly. That's why United are obviously heading to Bilbao for the final and winning the whole thing. It's been less than 24 hours since we last lost in the Premier League, but we'll gloss over that. Yeah.

Quick shout-out to Lenny Oro as well. This is from Kane, who had another good game. I think we did mention him, to be fair, but we didn't mention the fact that

and he says you need to do a special mention of him slipping then blocking the shot with his head a la the great Phil Jones. I think Nemanja Vidic did it, Laurie, as well, didn't he? Well, Vidic, and didn't John Terry do it as well? Not to sort of, you know, go a little bit off-pitch with the Chelsea connection, but yeah, okay, Phil Jones, you know, is known, that's his thing, right? You know, chucking his head in where it hurts. But Joro, I mean, it was...

because he was going down and he definitely had a choice in that moment and he chose violence. And so, you know, I mean, he obviously needed a bit of treatment, didn't he? But good to see that he was okay afterwards because it was an important block. Yeah, it was, wasn't it? Certainly. As I say, thank you for everyone getting in touch. We really appreciate it. And...

Obviously, before the game, we like to think that we brought some good karma, didn't we, for that tie by recording Talk of the Devils Extra on the greatest European nights at Old Trafford. And because that went so well,

We're working on a little bit of good karma again. We are going to record another Talk of the Devils extra ahead of the first leg against Athletic Club in Bilbao and we want your memories of Manchester United's greatest away European games because that went so well the first time around it can't fail to help. We want...

stories of your European trips however weird and wonderful they are the times that you've watched Manchester United away from home in the Champions League Europa League Cup Winners Cup whatever it might be get in touch we'll obviously share our thoughts and our memories as well in fact Andy's already got the ball rolling mentioning a couple of away games in his article on The Athletic about United's greatest comebacks in Europe so get in touch with us use the email devilspod.com

at theathletic.com and remember to put extra in the subject line as well. Yes, thank you so much for everybody that contributed and shared

gave us their reflections on that extra podcast because it was a joy to record. And yeah, it felt like maybe we'd mistimed it at a certain point in the game. Maybe. But then we had so many people that were saying, oh, is this going to be the earliest that you need to do an addendum to an extra podcast? You know, can we get a little extra on the extra podcast? Because I certainly think that, yeah, that night against Lyon will be...

stay in the memory for great European nights at Old Trafford. Yeah, definitely. We're going to record that at the start of next week. So get in touch before then and share your best memories. Just before we go then, just looking ahead to the tie against Athletic Club, they lost 1-0 to Real Madrid on Sunday evening. It was a heavily rotated side,

for Athletic Club after winning in the Europa League on Thursday night against Rangers but it still took a 93rd minute goal from Fede Valverde to break their resolve I mean this is going to be a tough game Andy isn't it this is tougher than anything United have faced before in the competition If you look at the league position they're the fourth best team in Spain behind Barcelona possibly the best team in the world at the moment

Real Madrid are Real Madrid, Atletico are in third. Ernesto Valverde is a top, top manager and he's got a really well drilled team with several Spanish international players. The Williams brothers are obviously the most famous ones, but there's players who've been even more effective this season than them.

And then they've got the biggest prize possible, the final in their home city. I've got some friends who are athletic fans and they've got in touch with me since Thursday. And they are so excited about the prospect of playing Manchester United. Several of them came to Old Trafford last time in 2012. So I'm seeing optimism there.

I'm hearing stories about what they're going to do for the trip to Manchester. And this is a good side of football. There's so much anticipation about the game. But you're absolutely right, Ian. It's going to be the toughest match, in theory, that Manchester United have played in Europe this year. But this isn't Barcelona. This isn't PSG. And Manchester United are not Manchester United either.

Well, I'd say that they, well, they are slight favourites, but the second leg is at Old Trafford and, ah, I don't know. I know people who are already talking about a trip to the final and what they're going to do. Maybe they're being prudent because they're worried about the cost of everything.

But Manchester United are not like long outsiders for this. No, not at all. That's next week, isn't it? So we'll look ahead to that game and that tie. We've talked the Devils extra, get in touch with your best European away memories and we'll do that next week. We'll be back though on Thursday to preview United's next Premier League game. It still matters just about to record podcast four. That will be later on this week. But for the minute, Laurie and Andy, thank you very much for being with us and thanks for listening. We'll see you on the next one. Take care. Bye-bye.

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