Denis Law remembered. More Brighton woe: worst United team ever?
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This is Talk of the Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. Dennis Law scored 237 goals in 404 appearances in the red of Manchester United. The king of the Stretford end. He was arguably the club's greatest ever centre-forward. Only Sir Bobby Charlton and Wayne Rooney have scored more for United and in far more matches.

Dennis was remarkable. He scored a club record 46 goals in the 1963-64 season, en route to becoming the first United player ever to win the Ballon d'Or. He's still the only Scottish player ever to receive that accolade and still to this day the joint highest scorer in his nation's history.

A humble great with a quick wit and a cheeky grin and the final member of the United Trinity that we must bid farewell. Dennis died on Friday at the age of 84. He will never be forgotten. He was only a skinny little whippet of a boy, you know. And when you looked at him, you thought, blimey, where's he? How can he play? Well, after you had seen him playing at 15 years of age, then you realised that here was something unusual happening.

It's debatable if anybody was better than him. He was a brilliant player. Maybe Lawton could get up higher because he was a bigger man. But all the rest of the tricks, the cunning tricks and the tricks that would cause trouble, Law knew them. He knew them when he was a boy. We'd signed Puck there and we'd signed Law that year. However way we played, we just couldn't win. And I remember we played at Leicester one time and

Dennis Lusko and I thought we lost for free in just that way. I remember coming in after the match and saying, "What have we got to do to win a match?" I said, "Just play the way we're playing and we'll win matches eventually." Samarit Busby's philosophy had been, as far as I gather, in '48, certainly in '58, and with our team, was to go out.

and try and entertain the people. They've come here and they've paid good money and they don't want to see football that is boring. Law Charlton, beautiful move back by three Manchester Boarders. And it's Creran coming in with power. Law, he can do it, he's done it!

I didn't like playing up front. I mean, I wanted to play all over the field. But I said, "I don't fancy that." He said, "Well, we ain't got anybody to score goals, you know, and we need somebody up there. We need, you know, we've got David here, but he needs our help, you know." I said, "Oh, well, if..." And he said, "And don't you come over the halfway line." I thought, "This is gonna be boring, this." I mean, I quite enjoy scoring goals, but I enjoy being part and parcel of the team all over the field. And unfortunately, I had to do it. And again, I had to stay there for several years.

You need a different blend of players and teams, you need defenders, you need attackers, you need midfield, you need fighters, you need ball control players. Manchester United at that time had a bit of all that and that was the beauty of it. There's a famous story of course that Bill Shankly had Dennis as a young player at Huddersfield of course. He was doing his team talk with Liverpool

And he'd go on about the step and he's not, can't do this and can't do that. He'd go on about Bill Fultz, he'd go on about Nobby, he's blind, the man's blind, you know, he just tackles and all that, you know. I know he shanked that with Gawain. But he left out Charlton Wall and Best, obviously because he couldn't say a bad word about them. They were so good. Played there for Law, and number five! Number five by Dennis Law. And that of course is Law's Patrick.

It's been Scots all round, the players and also the managers, Samant Busby, Bill Shankly, Andy Beattie, so I've been very, very lucky. Billy once said the only British player that could play for Brazil was Denis Law. He was quick, he'd followed every shot in, he was magnificent in the air for his height, he was a great Scotsman. Cantankerous, troublemaker, and he loved beating England.

Don't forget in that particular days as well, there was 11. There wasn't subs in the early days. Now of course it's what 24 in a squad you could come on two minutes from the end and that's a cap. No, you played the whole 90 minutes that was playing for your country. What an honour to play for your country.

People say, "What do you remember in your career?" I say, "Well, when we were picked for the rest of the world, to play alongside Busquets, Gento, Kopa, the forward line was that and myself." And then in the second half, Eusebio came on. Charlton, Charlton to Best. Heard a law in the middle. Charlton lurking on the penalty area. There's Law, and it's 3-0!

Lovely to hear all about Dennis Law in those clips, Andy, and a measure of just how much of a Manchester United great, a Scottish great, an English football great he was, is the people who are paying those tributes in those clips. Yeah, lovely. Kenny Dalgleish described him as his hero at the weekend, Sir Alex Ferguson was regularly going to see Dennis Law,

several times a week up until very recently he'd also call him a hero love the line about him being good enough to play for the brazil team in 1970 yeah the only british player because that brazil team were lacking like a world-class uh striker love the shankley stuff as well about going for the entire manchester united team but just stop him at the forwards and it's um

He's one of Manchester United's greatest, greatest ever players. And I've spoken to some of his teammates since he passed. I spoke to Brian Kidd just before it became public on Friday evening, before the news started to break everywhere. And everybody's sad, but what a great life, 84 years old. And I think we all send out our condolences to him.

Dennis's family and friends and I know some of them personally I know his daughter Diwell she worked at Manchester United very close with Sir Alex Ferguson for a long time and I wrote Paddy Crown's autobiography and there's so much Dennis Law in Paddy's book that I used to go around to Paddy's house and just sit there laughing my head off and Paddy would retell me stories about

How Dennis would say things like, if Pat starts moaning, the best thing to do is put the lights out and lie on the floor. And Dennis used to say of Creran, and bear in mind that Law was brought, and Creran was brought because they had such a good connection together for the Scottish national team. And Dennis would say, Creran's got two speeds, slow and stop. And they'd just wind each other up non-stop. And when they went arguing, they formed a very, very effective partnership, good enough for Manchester United to become...

Cup winners in 63, league champions 65, 67, European champions in 68. So it's really sad. And the fact that it's been headline news is a testament to how great, well, some lovely touches from all of his former clubs, Huddersfield, Manchester City and Torino in Italy, because when he went there, it was a big, big story. And that Torino team just after the Supercar disaster,

We're one of the best teams in Italy. Their stock has fallen somewhat since, but Dennis went there. He's like the hero of my parents' generation. It's really sad when you've seen these legends pass away as it was with Sir Bobby. Yeah, we're losing this generation, Carl, aren't we? Obviously, like Andy mentioned there, Sir Bobby passing was a huge moment for the club and the history of Manchester United. Dennis passing away...

makes a similar mark as well. And for younger fans, it offers an opportunity for them to look into this man, this mythical centre-forward who is the only person

to have two statues at Old Trafford. People know about the Trinity statue obviously at the front with George Best and Bobby Charlton but there's also one in the Stretford End on the concourse as well because he was the original king of the Stretford End long before Eric Cantona was ever heard of by Manchester United fans. Absolutely, the lawman. I think

If you are a younger fan, and I was at Old Trafford yesterday, and I overheard more than one fan ask, who is Dennis Law, to a parent, to a guardian figure, to which the easiest way you can explain it is he was the first king, the original king. And as you heard in that wonderful audio segment put together by producer Ollie, it's very, very easy to look at Dennis Law's goal-scoring talent and to think this guy was just fox in the box.

Ruth Banner still riding on steroids and whatnot. But as he explained there, he wanted to play. He wanted to cover all blades of grass. He actually sometimes found it quite annoying that he had to stay in the final third. He was a prototypical complete forward. He loved to drop, come short, link play, loads of flick-ons. But also some of those shots he had, like a cannon in his right boot. Wonderful balance as well. He also had this sort of

I've spent another weekend looking at old highlights and whatnot. And sometimes the way he's charging towards the goal. Yep. I can see Bruni's been told to look at some of this. Yep. You can see other United greats have been told, watch some Dennis Law footage. You'll figure it out. And yeah, if you're not the most au fait with him, just bear with him.

Spend maybe 10 minutes looking up some of his best goals. They are cracking. Yeah, and obviously the club paid their own tribute to him before the game against Brighton. Yeah, there's been some talk about the way it was handled before the game and I

With the lone piper coming out, a lot of people didn't hear the piper. And that's quite sad because one of the most poignant moments in Manchester United's recent history was the piper following the death of Samat Busby in 1994. And it's a beautiful sound and against the backdrop of silence, it has to be silent to hear a piper or the piper gets mic'd up and it's

Lovely that the teams came out. Lovely to see people like Kiddo and Paddy, the people I've been talking about there as well. But a lot of people did say they couldn't hear the piper.

There's one other thing Paddy Creran said to me. He said, Dennis Law is the best player that I ever played with. I mean, bear in mind who he played with. That's some compliment. Partly because he was so selfless. If Dennis Law was in front of goal with a 95% chance of scoring and someone was in a better position with a 99% chance of scoring, he'd pass the ball. He always did the right thing. People...

didn't realise as well that it was dirty, vicious, nasty on the pitch because he had to be because the only way you could stop great players playing on them pitches was to kick them. Dennis would kick a player back. He was great in the air, fantastically brave. He had a sharp football brain and quick feet. Dennis was great fun as a person.

He could be strange at times, a bit introverted. He was even shy. He pretended to be outgoing. But I think that was only to hide his shyness in social situations. And it's lovely to hear people speak about his personality as well, Andy. I'm sure over the years, you'll have had the privilege of speaking to him on a number of occasions. I interviewed him in 2011 when he did his last autobiography. And...

I was just struck. He had no idea who I was, who even I worked for, for trying to explain to him what the Premier League's international content service was. His daughter got it, which is why we did the interview, clearly. But, yeah,

He was just so generous with his time and so generous with the enthusiasm that he spoke with as well. Obviously, he'd been a broadcaster after playing and that shone through in the interview as well. But just a lovely, lovely man. He's kind of a part of my family's folklore, if I can indulge this for a moment as well, because my grandma, who was born in Didsbury and lived in Didsbury her entire life and worked in the chemist department,

for many many years um she used to serve dennis regularly he'd come in for his prescription and he was always so lovely with her she always spoke so fondly about him and he actually ended up randomly sort of gate crashing my uncle's wedding bizarrely on palatine road i think it was a place there i was trying to get my dad to tell me the story again over the weekend but basically he was also at this hotel having a drink with one of his friends and my uncle who you

At that point, he was a huge Manchester City fan. He later followed Stockport County and stayed with the blue side. But Dennis was a huge hero of his. We were in his wedding day. Obviously, he was in the mood. So he went up to Dennis and said, can I buy you a drink? Explained it was his wedding day. Dennis agreed. He had a drink. Then he said, well...

may as well stay then and then had a few more drinks after that so just a lovely person Andy as well a humble great is kind of the way that he's been described universally really and that's a measure of the person behind this mythical player yeah in his family are lovely people as well and they're also a testament to him and

His wife was at Cath Phipps' funeral very recently. They stayed in Manchester, as a lot of people do, but he was a real working-class hero from a tenement block in Aberdeen, and he was very proud of his roots there. And there's more statues of him in Aberdeen. I mean, this is a man who's got as many statues as Abraham Lincoln. This is top-level statues. And it's really sad, but 84 is a fine age for...

to reach the testimonies which we're hearing about all kinds of people from supporters who remember him as their idol and

One of his statues is inside the Stretford End because he was the original king of the Stretford End. People don't actually know about that. Well, it's amazing how many people discovered that for the first time at the weekend. Well, why would you know unless you've been in the inside of the upper tier of the Stretford End? It's not even particularly well pictured or anything, though, is it, that one? No. I quite like that, though, that it just sort of spreads out word on the street. Not everything needs to be out there made public. With its own social media channel. Exactly, exactly.

One thing we should point out, Andy, as well, from the interview I did with Dennis, he wasn't keen to talk about this backheel goal that he scored against Manchester United, which became remembered as the goal that relegated the club.

That's not technically true, but you could sort of see the strain in him and how much that goal actually hurt him when he reluctantly spoke about it. Yeah, it's not technically true because Manchester United were going down anyway. Some context is needed. He'd fallen out badly with Manchester United's manager, Tommy Doherty, so I'm sure he enjoyed it.

getting one over him, if not over Manchester United, who he's most closely linked with. Look, he serves City well. He's not a legendary City figure in the same way as Tony Booker, who passed away last week, losing some great former players. That incredible generation of Manchester football as well. Yeah, Manchester was a football capital and it should be now.

People associate Manchester with football and go back to 67-68 and United were first and second. City won the league, United were European champions and football is still huge but great, great teams from both clubs and

in the 1960s and Dennis played for both, played for him in the 60s and in the 70s. It's all very sad, but it's lovely to see the words being spoken about him and the fact that Sir Alex Ferguson, still alive and talking about this guy as if it's his hero, the only Scottish player to win the Ballon d'Or. Three Ballon d'Or winners in one team. One front line. One front line.

And then you had Crerion behind him just moaning at him non-stop and they still managed to score loads of goals. Well, you think about how excited we got about Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez in that 2008 team for Manchester United when...

We won the European Cup. But to have the three finest players in three separate seasons in the same side leading the line, just absolutely incredible. It's cruel, really, that Dennis missed the 1968 Cup final with a knee injury. I think he missed...

at least one of the legs of the semi-final as well. I think I'm right in saying that, which feels cruel because that should have been a pinnacle of his Manchester United career. But he scored in the 1963 FA Cup final win against Leicester. And you know another thing that stuck out as well, Andy, listening to all those tributes to him, so many great Scottish voices. It's such an important part of Manchester United's

entire existence owes itself to these Scottish figures. And there was no one more sort of proud of being Scottish or maybe a bit scampish about it than him. This is a man who booked around a golf at Chorlton Golf Club with the tee-off to coincide with the kick-off of the 1966 World Cup final. He did not want to watch England win the World Cup. And when he found out, as he was coming up the 18th fairway,

with his long blonde hair soaking because it had been wet. Occasionally it does rain in Manchester. He found out that England had won after extra time and he took his glove off and he snapped his golf club. He was absolutely fuming, even though two of his best mates, Bobby Charlton and Nobby Stiles, were playing in the final. This is how proud he was. This is a man so proud to be Scottish that he didn't celebrate England winning. And you wouldn't have it any other way.

Don't you think what I've got to come back to Manchester United on the Monday with Bobby Charlton and Nobby Styles saying if they'd won, oh dear. So there was no way that that was going to happen. This was going to be a battle.

It's been covering you, hasn't it? Scotland have been the more impressive side, and especially this law. This law has been the terrier of the first half. He's worked and worked and worked, and just reward coming to him there by catching that rebound and putting the ball in the back of the net. I think England are really up against it now.

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Well, I think I could have sat here and talked about the great Dennis Law all morning, to be honest with you, as we record this podcast. But unfortunately, we do have to talk about the football as well, as tempting as it would be to talk about, and I quote Carl, maybe the worst team in the history of Manchester United. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Ameryn was half joking, I will say. It's better to read it than just read it, because he was sort of half joking. It doesn't come across on the back pages of the newspapers that he was half joking. No, and he did immediately say, look, I know you're looking for a headline, so there is your headline. We have spoken about how Ameryn is very good at press conferences and is very clear in his communications and honest.

And I do wonder if that might be the end of him being so honest going forward. Yeah, I thought the relegation stuff might be. I mean, just to put this into context, Andy, Manchester United won Brighton 3, the sixth home defeat in the Premier League this season. It's the most at this point

since the 1893-94 season. I remember when I thought it was bad that we broke records from the 1980s, not the 1890s. United wouldn't have even called United when they last had a run this bad. They didn't even play at Old Trafford, so this was a run of form.

from their time playing at Bank Street. They've only ever had a lower points tally at this stage as well, 13 times in the club's nigh-on 150-year history. It is historically bad, this, isn't it? Yeah, it's not the worst. So factually speaking, this isn't the worst team, but it is horrendous. Certainly the worst in the Premier League. And it's deeply concerning. On the last podcast, Carl asked...

Was I confident about the Brighton game? And I just gave a one word answer. No. Not at all. I was really, really worried after seeing that Southampton game. A team who cannot win away with a better side at Old Trafford. And maybe people listening to this are different, but I just have certain games that

stick with me and go, oh no, the 20 game, I just thought that's the end of Ten Hag. When there was a draw. I just did. Everton for Solskjaer a couple of years ago, even though it was a draw. And that Southampton game the other night, I was like, whoa, I don't think it's the end of the manager at all. I think the manager's being backed. Unless he walks away, unless he just thinks this is just impossible to change. But he's talking like a man who's absolutely backed by the people above him.

And you can understand the reasons why, because United have been a stop-start version ever since Sir Alex retired. And no manager has ever got more than two and a half years and not come close to competing for a title despite finishing second, despite winning trophies and titles.

It's a pretty ballsy thing to say, you know, ironic or not. And he's making big, big decisions. He's got two of his three best paid players not playing. I'm really, really worried. The one thing I couldn't understand was how can that team go to Liverpool or to Arsenal or to City and do well? They're the games where there's no pressure because everyone expects United to lose.

The problem at Old Trafford is everyone expects United to win or at least attack. And this is a team who, they look anxious. They look frightened. Nervous. Nervous. You know. You see that word a lot. Nervous and anxious of his buzzwords to describe how he feels about games, which... They're both true. Both true. Well, yeah, he's echoing us. There is a huge...

skill issue in this Manchester United team. There are just so many key deficiencies in this squad that a team that wants to end up in the Champions League doesn't have. And the most obvious one is, where is your left back? And there are two or three times in that Brighton game where the lack of a left footer on the left wing was so obvious and so debilitating for anything United wanted to do.

Call it playing with one hand tied behind your back. You can call it whatever. And we talk about how have United had decent performances against Arsenal and Liverpool. Well, another reason is because Amarant is constantly talking about you need to be dead. You need to be willing to absolutely exhaust yourself and empty the tank. And there were two or three moments, particularly in the second half against Brighton, where you went, Ugarte's got nothing left in him. He's been run ragged from what he's had to do the last couple of games. Brighton's second goal in particular,

start off with a midfielder just waltzing past Ugarte who's trying to retreat but he's been having to cover so much ground over the last couple of days against some of the Premier League's apex predators that he's just huffing and puffing. The gaps are too big that these players have to cover match to match you know whether that's the midfield or whether that's the back three we've had so many emails from

about the situation, as you can imagine. Just to give you a flavour, Emilio, again, our midfield pivot felt slow, soft, indecisive. Forget the coach, these players need a psychologist ASAP, that's all. No self-belief, no self-confidence, no motivation. Alex, this three at the back is just so useless. So defensive, so slow, so exposed, so sluggish, so poor to watch. Soren, this team is by far the most infuriating I have seen. I mean, I could go on.

There's more that are even in the running order that we've picked out, um, that I'm not going to read out because I could be here all day. Um,

Andy, the one thing about the situation, you said a moment ago, you know, Ameren is being backed and that's the right thing. I think universally we all agree that the churn of managers has to stop. You know, the majority of people would definitely be behind the idea that the players are more to blame or those who collected these players together are more to blame than the current Manchester United head coach.

And when he speaks in his press conference, he does seem exempt from blame with it all, which is perhaps a little bit curious. I mean, most people in his position would not get away with the level of scrutiny that he's getting at the moment for seven defeats in his first...

50 matches in charge. The team are now seven points off the top half, let alone European spots or even the top four or, God forbid, a title race. You know, they are so far off it. What do you make of that particular dynamic? I'm not sitting here saying that I blame Ruben Amorim for what's happening, but surely...

He has to be part of this. I understand why he wants to implement his way of playing. That's the reason he was brought to Manchester United. To do anything other than that would be crazy at this point. That said...

This can't continue, can it? United can't keep being this bad every week without there being some scrutiny on the way that Amarim's dealing with it all. Well, the team can continue to be this bad. The team can get worse. The team can get relegated. The manager will be criticised because he's the manager, just as he'll be praised when he comes in. He is benefiting from the fact that those who've gone before him, it hasn't worked out, that...

How many times have I said it's a complicated dressing room? And I said that right at the start, didn't I? When he came in and everyone's like, proper football structure now, away we go. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. There's a couple of things here. You say backed, maybe backed into a corner because the club have backed him with a style of play that he's not going to change. They say 3-4-3. It's more like 5-3-2 because you've got Masraoui and Dalot.

The team are horrendous out of possession and rivals are exploiting that. Rivals are far stronger than they have ever been. Brighton and Nova Albion are an incredibly well-run football club. Yeah. And we've talked about them in nice ways. Far too much for my liking because they do very well against Manchester United. LAUGHTER

Ditto Bournemouth and several other clubs. This makes the Premier League so attractive. Fulham next up in the Premier League. Great. Fulham will probably be favourites to beat Manchester United. And Crystal Palace are on a good run as well. And Glasgow Rangers, there was a research in those last week, so much that actually they're not even called Glasgow Rangers, it's just Rangers. And they're really good away from home in Europe. The league table is not lying here.

Manchester United are where they are because they deserve to be. Now, if the team lost the next 30 matches on the bounds, the manager cannot be coming in, the coach, sorry, and saying these brutally honest truth bombs. You lose the majority. People are just, OK, enough is enough. But at the moment, fans are backing him. Fans are singing his name. He's clearly a very talented coach, but he's also an inexperienced coach. Yeah.

He's also got inexperienced coaches around him. He's also surrounded by people whose entire trajectory has been a positive one with public acclaim and the media going, wow, you are the next best thing. That's why he's ended up at Manchester United in the first place. Do they know what's hitting them right now with this scrutiny?

Manchester United not being good, being headline news, which it is. I mean, he deals with it remarkably well, but I wonder how any human can deal with it, how any manager can deal with it. Is he making too many changes? Too much, too soon. But he's not going to change from this system. And this system, if he gets it right, and I don't speak as a personal opinion, I speak having spoken to people at the top level in football who say things to me like, if he gets it right...

It is an incredibly good way of playing football, but you require high-level football intelligence to do that. These players are not his players. They're certainly not the worst players in Manchester United's history. These are top-level international players, but they're not his players, and they were not brought in to play a system which he wants to play.

They weren't brought in to play any system. And this was my match piece. I was going to say to you, Kyle, 33 players appeared in three straight victories for Brighton at Old Trafford. That stood out to me from your piece. Every individual was brought in to fit a clear strategic plan. They have benefited from playing in a stable environment, built to burnish their strengths and alleviate their weaknesses. That stood out to me from your match piece. Right. So Potter, Deserby,

and now Fabian have all got victories at Old Trafford. And sorry, Andy, we have spoken very glowingly of Brighton in recent seasons. We've spoken very glowingly when they put four past Ralph Ragnick's team. And we've constantly talked about how Brighton are what Manchester United used to be, where they used to be aligned and they used to be a very clear sense of what they want to do and how they went off to do it. Whereas United just constantly chopping and changing and chopping and changing.

I know our email inbox has been full of loads of questions going, bin off three at the back. We should be doing this. We should be doing this. Very frankly, there is no system. There is no formation. There is no tactical approach. There is no possession style, whatever, whatever, whatever, that would suit this Manchester United squad. Because this Manchester United squad is one of the worst assembled squads I have ever seen in my life. It is one of pound for pound.

one of the most poorly constructed squads of all time. And this is why loads of managers have come in and tried to figure out what you can do, only to go, well, I guess I'll do counter-attacking football because I've got two or three players that can do it.

And yes, a 3-4-3, the 3-4-2-1 is a difficult system. It's a little bit more bespoke than what we normally have seen from Manchester United managers. There were times at Old Trafford where you would just see Manchester United pass in this very sterile horseshoe between the back three and the wing-backs.

And one of the reasons why he's not getting any better there is because your options at wing-back are Dalot, who hasn't got a left foot and wants to come inside, which means he's going to collide into a defender. And Masrari, who for all of his qualities, is not really a final third full-back. So it's 5-3-2, which is what I said. It's not 3-4-3. It's 5-3-2. It changes at multiple points.

In and out of possession, I get that. In and out of possession. When Brighton come off the halfway line, Manchester United very often defending the 5-4-1. So Lenny Jorah is popping up, pushing up from the back three to bolster at midfield and whatnot. And Brighton just went, okay, well, we'll just hit you really, really quickly outside of Man Utd when you're shifting this space as well. So you've got this problem of you've got a squad that is just not well suited for anything.

They are trying to now learn a system that most football players would have some discomfort in playing. You play Sunday League or you play pub football, you play with a bunch of people you never played before and you all go, should we just do 4-4-2? Because...

Everyone knows how to play football well. You're loving the Sunday League and five-a-side references just lately, Mr. Anker. I know, I know. I've got a hankering. My knee's getting slightly better, so I'm going to be able to play football again soon. So if you're changing managers every two years, this is not going to change. Because every manager comes in and says exactly the same thing, but Amaran's saying it publicly. So I can remember speaking to David Moyes, for example. He'd been there for three months. And privately, I remember the chat was in San Sebastian,

He's like, hell of a job to do it. And I'm like, what do you mean? We've just won the league four months ago. But he was right. And then Louis van Gaal comes in and says exactly the same thing. And then Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and Jose Mourinho and Ralf Rangnick. Now, Rangnick went public and fans like that. Brutal honesty. Open heart surgery is needed. Right.

The club left, so... But the club has also changed because his paymasters were the Glazers and they're now in the background. Yeah.

Amarin is an Ineos appointment. He is not the final piece of their jigsaw, but one of the final pieces. And if he stays at Manchester United for 10 years, he will develop his own team. But certain factors remain true. He's still relatively inexperienced and he's very talented. I think it's quite telling that so many of the players signed in Eric Ten Hag's first summer were not used against Brighton.

Toby Colley getting picked over Casemiro once again. The Sandra Martinez was rested. Harry Maguire was preferred. Anthony got the smallest of cameos and right now he's being looked at

buy Real Betis on a loan move. We just had Mark Critchley write about how Manchester United are open to doing a loan move for Terrell Malassio as well. In terms of turnover and changeover and just churning it, and he's spoken many, many, many times about Eric Ten Hag wanting Harry Kane. There are many reasons as to why Eric Ten Hag didn't get Harry Kane. One of those reasons is because Manchester United were on the hook for Casemiro's transfer, Casemiro's wages.

Years of short-term thinking have created a squad that is just

wholly inequipped for dealing with the Premier League right now. Even in a way, Harry Kane would have been that as well, wouldn't he? He's just the ultimate sticking plaster. Absolutely. Talk to Spurs fans about how it's great having Harry Kane, but Harry Kane's so good at covering up your mistakes in midfield because it can drop deep that eventually your club just stops buying midfielders for a little bit. And unfortunately, you saw that in his first season at Bayern Munich. There were two or three things that Bayern were like, well, Harry Kane will sort that out.

Brighton beat Manchester United because they are bigger, they are stronger, they are quicker to every single second ball. They were just more reactive on set pieces. There was a goal that was disallowed for Brighton from a set piece. The Brighton free-kick taker slipped as he took it and okay,

Someone slips taking a free kick. Half the Old Trafford crowd goes, whee! But you could tell United's defenders just stopped reacting. So the ball is pinballing around the place and the ball goes in the back of the net. Thankfully, Dalot correctly sold a foul properly. So the goal got chalked off due to VAR. But Brighton are just a better team.

I know it wasn't helped by a referee that was content to leave his cards in his pocket. But if you're a team that's had $660 million spent on players and you're relying on the referee to protect you rather than actually putting some tackles in yourself, you're up a creek without a paddle and you're lacking manpower. Yeah, great. This, isn't it?

It gets better week by week. The conversations, I think I should have just left you to hosting duties again, Kyle, actually, and just enjoyed a little bit more time off. But anyway, if you need cheering up like we do, go and read about Manchester United women's side. First ever win away from home against Manchester City. 4-2 they won on Sunday evening, including a hat-trick.

Manchester United in front Manchester United in front

Simply Red

Manchester United take the derby bragging rights and win away at City in the WSL. It's like a Toonie Tonic, Andy, isn't it? Oh, it was good. I only saw the second half of it. I didn't get the crowd. It looked half decent. But that derby's being played at Old Trafford later on in the season. It is indeed, yep. It'd be good to have a massive crowd for that. I was surprised because...

the women's team seem to be under more criticism and scrutiny than the men's team at the start of the season, and they're actually doing really well. The manager definitely has been. Deserves his credit because they're now into third, I think, leapfrogged over Manchester City. Only lost one game so far this season. One of the few times they dropped points was one of the games I went to against Aston Villa. Stay away from the derby then, please. I went to the men's derby. We won that one, so...

And actually, I did go to the Women's Derby the season before last when that was a decent one for Manchester United as well. So well done. And one of the few bright points of a sad weekend because of Dennis and a sad weekend because of the way that Manchester United were beaten yet again. Superb. Absolutely superb. Real highlight. And Ella Toon's celebrations after getting her third goal

I was telling the girls before the game I've not scored against City before so for me to come on and play the game and score three is really special and yeah I'm buzzing with Al today personally and as a team as well and it's definitely a performance that we can build on. Right before we do the Rangers preview then just a quick reminder that we will be live at the Leicester Square Theatre in London on the evening of the 17th of March. It's a Monday, it's St Pat's night.

It should be a lively affair, although Phil has suggested on Instagram that we talk about anything but United on that evening. There's a couple of months before then for things to improve and there's maybe a couple of days left for you to get to your tickets. There's only a small handful left now. There's a link in the show description and it'd be brilliant to see you there. And thank you to every single one of you who's bought a ticket so far. Right, let's talk Rangers. Here's a voice note to preview the game from Jordan Campbell from The Athletic.

Patrick Stewart CEO

He's back the manager, Philippe Clement. But in recent weeks, you know, there was a fan walkout at protest at the mismanagement from the board. So, yeah, there is a, you know, the mood domestically is not great, but it never seemed to transfer over to Thursday nights where Rangers almost seemed to exist in a sort of bubble. They've been unbelievable in the Europa League the last six years since Gerrard came in and sort of transformed the club. I think that's quite similar to Man U in the sense that

when they're the underdog and they can make the game about pressing and counter-attacking, they look a really good side. I think they showed that against Spurs and over the years, you know, they've beaten Leipzig, Dortmund, Braga, Benfica, you know, loads and loads of teams probably above their level that they've managed to beat. But I think they come into this game with a few key injuries, Jack Butland in goal, John Soutar at the back, Diamandis suspended in midfield. So they are up against it, but...

I think the one player Rangers fans will be hanging their hopes on is Hamza Igemane. A young Moroccan striker who I've seen him described as a sort of Poundland Brazilian Ronaldo. He's very, very flary. I think he's got 13 goals in the last few months and he looks like a really exciting talent. So I think with USG in the final game at Ibrox, Rangers will be backing themselves to get that win. So it's sort of a free hit.

but we know when it's a battle of Britain there'll be Rangers fans wanting to have the bragging rights. Yeah, brilliant that Jordan. Thank you very much for doing that. Great to get the inside scoop on how Rangers are preparing for this game. The Poundland Ronaldo Andy,

I like that. Hamza's only 22 and he was a bit under the radar when he came at the start of the season. He wasn't fit to play. He was put forward as someone who was there for the future and Rangers fans were critical of the club going, what, you've just spent all this money on someone who's not even ready to play in the SPL. And he took until December to score his first league goal. But he's on an incredible scoring streak, as Jordan said, and

He's one of the few bright spots of a difficult season for Rangers. Now, you say difficult, the second in the table, but they are 13 points behind the great rival Celtic, who are a very well-run club, whose recruitment has been better, whose sales have been better. Rangers did actually beat Celtic 3-0 at the start of this year, and it's been a bit of an upturn.

in form this year but he talked about the fans walking out of Ibrox that was a Union Bears who bring a lot of atmosphere to Old Trafford they'll bring a load to Old Trafford on Thursday they'll be extremely vocal but the key point here is Rangers in the Europa League are very good they reached the final a couple of years ago they played Eintracht in Seville for a team that comes from such a small league

reach the final of the Europa League is a massive massive achievement and this year they've been taken apart by Olympic Lyon at home but they've beaten Malmo away they

They drew away with Olympiacos. They beat Nice away 4-1. Now for a Scottish team to go away to a team near the top end of League 1, League 1, and win 4-1, and they've drawn at home to Tottenham. So I think Jordan's point about being similar to Man United is very true. They're better against better teams.

Yeah, well, I don't know how they'll get on on Thursday then. But anyway, yeah, Jack Butland and Tom Lawrence, two ex-Manchester United players, both likely it sounds to miss this game, which is a shame, especially for Tom who made one Manchester United appearance in one of Ryan Giggs' matches in charge at the end of the 13-14 season.

obviously a former academy player for United. Carl, in terms of this game, Rangers 13 points off Celtic in the SPL. They won five at the weekend in the Scottish Cup against the Highland League side, Fraserborough FC. I presume I've pronounced that correctly. It's the team for me that will be interesting. So,

We had a question from Jack. Should Amarin go as far as resting players in the Premier League games for Europa League matches? I don't know what you think, but they need to be strong. They need to finish in the top eight of this league table. Absolutely. Amarin will probably bring it up again in the next press conference about how important it is to finish in those top eight spots because he absolutely does not want those high up around. He wants training time. I've

used the post-Britain press conference to ask him how does he improve the physicality of this United team. Can he mid-season like this? He talked again about the importance of training. It wasn't to be getting the gym and starting the bench press, but in case of basically being very, very clear about your position and where you need to stand. So this game, I can see this one being a physical battle. I can see this game being quite nippy.

What he does with Ugarte will be interesting for me. Well, that's two games in a row where there's been question marks over him. Mainu as well, in terms of the physical output that they're both putting in or able to put in at the minute. Even the wingbacks. I mean, Diogo Dalo has played so much football over the last couple of seasons and he looks worse for it

Nusir Mazraoui as well was so positive, such a positive addition, the best summer signing, I think, for many people at the start of this season. But even he looks tired. And when you look at how many league games he's started, he's nearly at his record number. And we're only, what, just over halfway through the season in terms of league starts, at least, anyway. I think Mazraoui and United as a whole would benefit if he moved to right centre-back rather than right wing-back.

because he can help with Bilbao, but doesn't necessarily have the final third responsibilities. I'm not sure if Luke Shaw comes back fit, which in itself is a big question. I'm not sure that he's an automatic pick at left wing back either. He seemed like he was being primed for left centre back, actually. I wouldn't blame him at left wing back. I think that's too much strain on his body as well. So again, the quickest way to improve Manchester United between now and the end of January probably isn't training, probably isn't whatnot. It's actually going out and getting a left wing back.

I know Andy said Amrin's been backed. I don't know how much time we've got or work on the credit card we've got to back him in that way. But I think... Well, only 11 days in terms of time anyway. I think we're approaching that sort of region. The central midfield stuff is the interesting thing in that Ugarte is being rested or being taken off close to the hour now and Toby Cuddy is beginning to emerge. And Casemiro seems out of favour. But also Casemiro is a body and can be useful. So...

If I'm putting a shiny penny anywhere on any team selection, if Casemiro starts, then you'll know how seriously Emery has taken this game.

Andy, the goalkeeper situation as well. The team as a whole seems to be struggling to play at Old Trafford at the moment, but Andre Onana seems to be struggling especially. The manager has spoken about some of the fans' anxiety when he has the ball and some of the frustration when he's slow in the build-up for United. But obviously it was his work as a more traditional goalkeeper that was in question again at the weekend. The mishandle for the third, the positioning for the second...

And we're at the point with him again where the mistakes are overtaking the fantastic double saves and the brilliant moments. And so many Manchester United fans now are just not impressed by what they're seeing. And, you know, outside by Andy hardly had an ideal performance away at Spurs in the League Cup, but his performance against Arsenal, first goal, Arsenal's goal aside maybe,

It's sort of suggested that maybe he could get an opportunity as the Manchester United number one. Are we at that point with Onana, in your opinion? Not quite, but I'm not making the decision. I think up to Christmas, he was one of the contenders, low bar that it is, for player of the season. Bayon Deer had a brilliant game, which I was pleased for him about, at Arsenal in the FA Cup. Going back to the last question about the changes that he is making...

He tends to be taking... He's making fewer changes now. And if you look at who didn't start against Brian, it was Hoyland, who hasn't been doing so well. Martinez, who hasn't been doing so well either. So he will make those changes. I think that...

And Arna's now becoming, I wouldn't say a figure of fun among some Manchester United fans, but it's back on the talking point that you've got a risk goalkeeper and people saying, why on earth have we signed him? And more criticism then back towards Eric Ten Hag. We're not seeing the benefits though, are we? Do you remember watching that European Cup final for Inter and Manchester City and thinking, wow, how amazing it would be to have a goalkeeper like this? Then we signed him and he's played nothing like that ever since, basically. He was bought to play a system. Yeah.

And that system has now changed. So it brings us back to the point of Frankenstein's monster. Every single manager comes in, but his skillset hasn't changed, has it? Well, they're still building up in a similar way, to be fair. And his distribution should be very, very good. His distribution should be better than what it is. And...

The very frustrating thing about that performance against Brighton is you can see why he made that mistake for the third goal. So he doesn't come out to claim the cross in the second. Yeah. So then he does it on the third. And that's it, right? As the ball is being whipped in,

You can see his head is going, I didn't come out for the last cross and that's why they scored. Let me come out for this one. That is an acceptable mistake if you are a teenager or you are a rookie goalkeeper. But for someone of this experience, I need you to be better, especially when a team...

is in this really dysfunctional state. We've talked about it on the podcast, but speaking to people around the club who know him, say that errors stay with him. And this is the absolute worst thing he can do, is continue to carry these errors forward. And if he's acting differently for the third goal because of the error he made on the second goal, that concerns me. It's...

just press it's easy for me to say saturday now but just press reset you know don't worry about what's gone before it's about what's coming next now and that's the way you get rid of errors surely confidence confidence confidence it is really really low throughout the team among supporters there's a multitude of reasons and unfortunately most of them are negative a mate of mine was in the

and he sent me this. He said, I tell you what, there's an issue. Grumpy lads between 40 and 70 who saw us win everything and now moan and moan about every single thing from the first minute they enter the ground until they leave with five minutes to go. Is he including us? It's their right to do that. They've paid, but it helps nobody. I've seen these XXX booing Xerxe off against Newcastle and then they claim it was youngsters who don't know what supporting means.

Yeah. I wonder what fans can do. And I don't think the fans can do that much. And I asked Ammarim, three games on the bounce, what do you want from fans? And he gave the same answer. It's like, no, no, this is on us. But then I look at the fans and the support is mediocre at best because I compare it with some of the other games that I go to around the world. If you took a Boca Junior fan to Old Trafford and said, this is good support, he would laugh his head off at you.

Good support in terms of turning up week in, week out. Yeah, definitely. Very, very loyal. It is chicken and egg. But the team needs the fans now, Ian. The team needs the fans more than ever now. And the fans are turning up too late. Even there, it's not quite clear-cut because there's congestion getting into the ground. But fans at British stadiums still turn up too late. And then the players are warming up with 10 minutes to kick off and the ground's empty. Yeah.

Imagine if it was full. Imagine if it was bouncing. The players would feed off that, but that would require a massive cultural change in the way that British fans, not just United fans, go to the football match because they just cannot get away from the pub, a lot of them.

Well, you can see why when you watch the football, to be fair. You can see why. Again... I'd stay in the pub. I actually know people who stay in the pub during the match. These people exist, you know. Well, they'll go to the kiosk sort of 15 minutes before half-time and then decide to stay there for the second half and then leave to go to the pub outside the ground afterwards. No, I know people who go to away games and don't go in the match. They basically go to somewhere like, I don't know, Leicester to see the mates...

They have a good day out. But that's what football is about, isn't it, as well? The worst bits to football. How many trips I've had where the match is a sideshow. It's 5% of the occasion, isn't it? It's about enjoying a day out with your friends, with your family. And yeah, unfortunately, at the moment, the football is spoiling that. But let's hope for better on Thursday. I don't know if enjoying is the right sort of phrase for that podcast, but I hope you took something from it.

And, yeah, we'll be back after Thursday, whatever happens against Rangers. Andy, thank you. Carl, thank you. Thanks for listening. Remember, the last few tickets available for London, details in the show notes, and we'll speak to you after Thursday. Take care. Bye-bye. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

Hello, I'm Ian McIntosh and I'm the host of the Daily Football Briefing. What is the Daily Football Briefing? It's a special 10-minute daily show designed to bring you up to speed with the most important stories from across the football world. Except on Monday mornings when it's 15 minutes and we try to cram in the results, standings and stories from the top 10 leagues on the planet.

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