Fernandes hat-trick fires United into Europa quarter-final
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. Swept on by Casimiro. Fantastic ball. It's Bruno Fernandes. Rasmus Hoyland has saved it! What a stop that is from Romero!

It's Penalty. And the referee's given a penalty. A penalty for Sociedad. And now after the save from Romero, a penalty given to Manchester United. It's Fernandes against Romero. And he's as cool as you like. Coming in now, Dorgil, over he goes. Referee says, Penalty! And the captain delivers in fine style again. Garnaccio on the run. Bruno Fernandes is in. Is this his moment? Bruno Fernandes!

It's a captain's performance on a massive European night for Manchester United. And when they needed their talisman to deliver, Bruno Fernandes scores a hat-trick and Manchester United are through.

This is Talk of the Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. And this is the sound of one satisfied podcast host after Manchester United have soared past Real Sociedad 4-1 in the second leg of their last 16 tie. And they've set up a last eight Lyon tie today.

which we can all look forward to now. The season isn't over. And guess what? United play again on Sunday against Leicester again, still managed by Ruud van Nistelrooy, of course, and his band. Find out why later.

Anyway, we've had a big week already because of course we recorded Talk The Devils Extra, which was all on United's plan to build a new stadium. We had lots of comments. Thank you for all your feedback, positive and well, maybe otherwise. Gary said, Jesus lads, cheer up. Daniel said, bloody hell guys, that was the most negative Talk The Devils ever. Low. You grumpy sods. Adam, man,

Can we not just be excited for one day? So, listeners, I can tell you that this will be a negative free zone tonight. It's a podcast about the final remaining Northern English side left in Europe. The only unbeaten team in the Champions League and Europa League this season. Yes, indeed. Manchester United. I've got three men looking back at me smiling. Their names are Carl, Laurie and Andy. You know them well.

Yes, lads. Yes, Ian. Yes, Ian. That was an appropriate intro for an occasion at Old Trafford under the floodlights that made us remember, well, we didn't need much remembering, but the occasion that Old Trafford could produce. That we don't need a new stadium. Is that what you mean? Sorry. No, sorry. That sounds like a negative note, so I'm not going to say that. Oh, if there's any negative notes tonight, we're not going to have a negative note. Ah!

No negative notes tonight. Oh, blimey. There's your warning. That was really good. That was really good. There was a point, I think, 80th minute, Aiden Heaven gets the ball off Andre Nana, runs towards centre circle, hits a little scoot pass to Xerxe on the left. Xerxe traps it, sends a defender for twisted blood, drives down as a shot, and they just keep attacking. And I'm going, this is fun. I'm having fun watching Manchester United play football.

Oh, it's good. It's really good when they play like that. I hope they can play like this next week and the week after and the week after and the week after. That was the biggest game of the season. If United wouldn't have gone through tonight, the season would be all but over. But United scored four against a Spanish team and I know it got easier at the end because Lariya were down to ten men but United created a lot of chances in the first half. The

the Basques were the best team in the first five or six minutes and when they went ahead of it, oh no, not this again. But United came back into it. Obviously, Bruno got his penalty. Bruno is the man of the moment. Good atmosphere tonight. That sort of spontaneous roaring the team forward under the lights. It's what we've missed.

It's what we've had so little of this season. And you realise that watching football can be a joy. So many good performances that we can pick out. Decent atmosphere. The Stretford end was good with the surfer. Pre-planned pyrotechnics for the first time in all traffic. Yeah, I think it was really good as well. I wasn't ready for that. Is that negativity? Sorry, sorry, sorry. I mean, I'll tell you what. It's a question. It's a ponderer.

I will credit any fans who try and improve the atmosphere and they raise the money to do that. I don't think it came off fully, if I'm honest, you know, but then I'm setting the bar high. It was fantastic. Perfect. But smoke wafting across the night sky was evocative. The surfer looked good. Surfer flag looked good.

And yeah, it was decent. And the point about negativity, so many people have said to me, like, no, no, don't worry, nothing negative is coming. Stop moaning. Yeah, yeah. Someone said to me, you know, if United charge £1 for season tickets delivered by Elizabeth Hurley in a bikini, with a promise that Bruno Fernandes will drive you to the game, some people would still moan. My wife was on my case about the stadium. She's like...

You've got a world-class architect from your city. This is absolutely stunning. Why are people moaning? Why do your friends in the north of England never stop moaning about everything? So, yeah. That was nearly negative, that. No, no, no. That's not negative. That's not negative. It was actually complaining about negativity. It's moaning about moaning. Yeah. Is that negative? Do two negatives make a positive? Yeah, it makes a positive. Wahey!

I mean, there's so many ways we could take this conversation. We can talk about the individuals who played well. We can talk about the absolutely ridiculous start to the game. United reacting as well as they did. But I think we should start talking about Bruno Fernandes. I mean, that man has had so much criticism. Most of it recently completely unwarranted, to be honest. But when United needed him most again, Laurie...

he stepped up to the plate from the penalty spot and otherwise yeah and you had no doubt that he was going to convert those two penalties sent the goalkeeper the wrong way both times put it in different corners Casemiro did a little bit he was looking away I think for the first one oh did he yeah oh I missed that okay uh I was you know I had no doubt and I just felt that he was he's in that mode at the moment I actually spoke to people before the game and just said you know I

I felt that United would win the game and Bruno Fernandes would be the pivotal character. In actual fact, there was probably maybe three or four players that you could argue played better overall than him, which is crazy to say, given he scored a hat-trick. Three or four? Well, I'm thinking Joshua Xerxe. I'm thinking Aidan Heaven on his first start. I'm thinking even...

can you put Rasmus Hoylen in that bracket just because yeah if you want to you obviously missed that one in the first half but then kind of the character that he showed throughout and obviously got the assist at the end Matthijs de Ligt again Casemiro again so you've got a lot of players tonight that played really well and the crowd showed their appreciation you've got again chance for Joshua Xerxe when he came off standing ovation for Casemiro when he came off two players that have certainly been criticised and obviously we know about Xerxe by who? oh yeah

Well yeah and actually I mean Amarin obviously singled him out as well in his answer to the question about what the owner had said which you know could go either way was it a bit of provocation but I think it was actually more a kind of pointer to the quality that you know we know he has you know because he's won you know five Champions Leagues and this level really is suited for him isn't it you know a game against Spanish opposition and

and what Amarin said afterwards was that he is learning better how to play Casemiro not asking him to press high keeping him in short spaces where he can read the ball and understand where it's going to go and nick it

and then pass it forward. These two passes to Bruno tonight, one set up the penalty and one set up another chance, were absolutely magnificent. That's an interesting little side note from Amarin to say how he's himself adjusting to these players. But clearly Bruno Fernandes stands above them all as the kind of...

the glue, the linchpin, the totem that is able to shoulder that responsibility. And when he ran through in the second half, I mean, great pass actually. It was Garnaccio, wasn't it? That kind of timed it really well. You see Hoyland in the middle and you're thinking, is this finally going to be the moment that Hoyland scores? Because I sort of saw the...

the pain that he had on his face when he missed that first half chance and I just thought he is going to celebrate in such an explosive manner that there's going to be a groundswell and you know maybe Old Trafford won't survive it if you know the kind of energy that he's going to produce in this celebration and I thought in that moment Bruno Fernandes running through is he going to square it and he thought no I need to just finish this myself and at

Absolutely nailed it into the far corner. Yeah, amazing. I mean, I didn't know these stats before tonight. I didn't realise he was at this sort of level in the Europa League. But 10 penalties now scored by Bruno Fernandes in this competition. That's stretching his own record as the most in the competition's history. And more impressively, now 41 goal involvements in the Europa League. 24 goals, 17 assists, more than any other player scored.

who ever played in the competition. It says a little bit about Manchester United's recent history, the fact that we've got players breaking Europa League records and not Champions League records, but they're still breaking records, that's the important thing.

And that was nearly, you're right, Carl, that was nearly a negative. But yeah, like Laurie mentioned, mate, I mean, there was numerous players who you could pick out as being better than Bruno Fernandes and he got a hat-trick. So if that doesn't tell you how good Manchester United's performance was tonight, how complete it felt. Bearing in mind, this is a United team,

that Amre didn't have a lot to pick from again, did he? I mean, Aiden Heaven was a selection above Victor Lindelof. Christian Eriksen obviously was left out for Hoyland to start compared to the weekend. But other than that... This is a very thin bench. This is a thin bench that was pointed out by Radcliffe during his interviews. Oh, Andy Mittens just shaking hands with Omar Barala just there. That's fun.

and what you've seen is he's just gone past you as well there Carl hasn't he? by the way listeners Carl is up on his own Billy no mate so me and Andy have gathered around our microphone for technical reasons we might add yeah yes slaves to the craft thumbs up between myself and Mr. Barada I think with Bruno Fernandes when this new football stadium is built

Give him a plaque, give him a couple of seats, give him his own. Give him a stand? Are we not quite there yet? Not quite there yet. He's got to win me this Europa League first. But there definitely should be something to remember his hard work carrying modern day Manchester United for sure because that was a true captain's performance. Him and Casemiro in the first 10 minutes, I'd say, their reaction to United going a goal down gave me great confidence that United weren't going to lose that game.

It's not quite Keane and Turin, but it is that level of rolling your sleeves going, all right, we're going to do this the hard way and we're just going to dig it out. Are you allowed to compare Bruno Fernandes to Roy Keane? Well, I did. Would Roy approve? I think he would. I think Roy Keane says it's about what you do with your actions and Bruno Fernandes' actions on this Thursday night were exemplary. It wasn't just the penalties. It was how he was battling for second balls. This is quite a hard...

formation to take on the front foot as Amrini said after the Arsenal game right we're playing in a low block he doesn't want to play in the low block he wants to be more progressive so when you're a goal down there is that horrible feeling that oh United are going to concede loads of goals in quick succession as they often have in the last few years and yet you just see Casemiro you see Bruno Fernandes you see Garnaccio on those counterattacks it's all going no we're just going to drag this team kicking screaming the crowd's getting behind them as well and I think

I mean, we've talked about Hoyden. He's had three shots today. That's an improvement. He's had three shots. He's won the penalty and he got an assist. Dalot getting up and down. Dorgue, they couldn't guard Dorgue. They could not handle him. And we've spoken before about this negative horseshoe or U-shape in the back line. Dorgue just running up and down, down that left-hand side. There were multiple ways Manchester United could hurt Real Sociedad today. And I'm so relieved and there's a huge smile on my face

describing this they actually just beat them I doubt my mind they were the better team they beat them dismantled them they had nothing left yeah well they're talking about Zubamendi being a good football player who's going to cost either Liverpool or Arsenal loads of money couldn't handle uncle Casemiro no in a way Andy it was the worst possible start conceding a penalty which Real Sociedad scored and

And being 1-0 down after 10 minutes is not the way to start your biggest game of the season. But in some ways, it was the best possible start because it seemed to remove...

any sort of nervousness or any uncertainty from United's play and they just went for it and the reaction to going behind early on it shouldn't need an early goal but it but it created something quite special tonight from the team didn't it yeah they had a good start Kubo the Japanese players got really lovely feet and he was tricky and they got the penalty and they they deserve to go ahead one for stats nerds that you

United's xG in the first half of the sentence, you probably never thought you'd heard me say, was higher for chances than I think in any other game this season. Casemiro is right that he's been pulled out for praise. He's had a really good week, Casemiro, because he played in San Sebastian, he did well against Arsenal and obviously tonight. And I feel United are better playing these teams who are maybe less physical, maybe a little bit slower, technically good as all Spanish sides are.

but it's no coincidence that United have been so comfortable in Europe, unbeaten, and so uncomfortable in the Premier League. And even when we're

picking out Heaven for example I thought we had a brilliant night absolutely only getting positives from me I mean for a lad making his first ever senior start it was more than a brilliant night in some ways I mean he seems to win everything doesn't he I still thought United did give the ball away too readily at times and better teams would punish Manchester I'm going to bring it round OK

I'm going to bring it round to being a positive. It's a lesser hand, isn't it? That's a positive, actually. It is. You're quite right. I thought Bruno was going to get a third penalty because it was initially given. The penalties got woolier and woolier as the night went on, basically, didn't they? It got to the point where even Doggy was saying, no, ref, come on. You know who the last United player to score three penalties was in a game? I think it's only happened once before. I don't. Brian Robson? Charlie Mitton.

Oh, there we go. Of course there's a relation. And he told the Aston Villa goalkeeper where he was going to put each of them. So, yeah, it was a busy tie for VAR, a busy tie for penalties. But I know people say now,

United overcame 10 men, but it's still a really, really impressive win. Just keeps everything alive. It keeps the confidence of the players alive, the fans alive. You cannot underestimate how badly Real Sociedad wanted to reach the final. It's in Bilbao. It's one hour from San Sebastian. They felt that they could win this game. Their manager said he felt he could win this game. He said, we've won at Old Trafford before, which of course he did in 2022. So I

I know a cynic might say no, no, no, no, no, no. It was a really, really good win tonight and we can pick out six, seven, eight players for their strong performances. One thing that was interesting in the post-match press conference is both to broadcasters and to written media is Amren kept bringing up physicality. He said our physicality was good. He said our physicality was good and I think European competition may suit

a United team that perhaps doesn't have the physicality to match up with the top teams in the Premier League but does have two or three big boys who can bully around a couple of players in European competition. I mean, in the first half...

When Hoyland finally gets a run down the left channel and then he puts his forearm up only for one of Real Sociedad's centre-backs to go down holding his face and you're going, oh, come on, game's gone. He actually bludded his lip, didn't he? I thought he was just being soft. Did he? Yeah, yeah. Well, I was giving the game's gone at that point. Yeah, yeah. That was one of those moments where you're going, okay, after watching games against Crystal Palace. It wasn't a foul, by the way. No, absolutely not.

But after watching Premier League games against Crystal Palace, against Everton, against Brighton, where United have been bullied, it was quite interesting to watch Manchester United do the bullying and actually really get in there for those second balls as well and how important that has been. European competition suits two or three of these players at the moment in a way that Premier League football might not. So I think that might be quite encouraging. Although Amir did say Lyon will be physical as well, so...

Yeah, it was interesting that he did pick out the physicality of Lyon. He said that the French League is similar to the Premier League in that sense, but the technical quality of the Premier League is higher, obviously. I mean, the key tonight, Laurie, was basically that Manchester United have done something in recent matches that only the sharpest of journalists have noticed.

and that is winning the toss at Old Trafford and turning the away team around and it's brought yet another victory or yet another positive result well this was the big news of the week right the story that set the news agenda is it news can we confirm that it isn't because there was lots of people asking is this news I know there was some debate in the comments wasn't there yeah well okay it was

To be positive on this podcast, I think this was a really big agenda setting. It's a good spot, I think. I'm glad you agree. There's nothing else going on this week that could possibly have knocked this off front page. The most prominent story in people's minds as they came to the ground tonight. So, yeah, I mean, they were all eyes were on the coin toss and Bruno Fernandes wins it again. I mean, he's got some freaky luck here. One hell of a coin tosser, isn't he? Well, there we go. Yeah.

and if you think of what happened to a team down the road this week on certain coin tosses and maybe losing them and whether that had an impact on their success going through in Europe as you alluded to at the start of this podcast and then I think maybe that's not a skill to be underestimated as we go on in this knockout competition Flying the flag in the north west for coin tosses Yeah interesting so basically Bruno Fernandes has turned United around for four matches at Old Trafford in a row now to try and get a faster start going and

Because they've been so bad, haven't they? Scoring goals in the first half at home. I think his penalty against Brighton was one of them and that's about it for seven or eight games. So yeah, they managed to do it against Ipswich, scored two in the first half of that, obviously against Arsenal and he scored his three kits before half-time. And then tonight as well, it did have an impact, I suppose, in terms of the Stretford end sucking the ball down their end and revving up. It's an interesting one, right? If it continues, it's against the tradition, I suppose, of footballers.

Stuart's water strep for end in the second half and all those famous late goals. It's against football tradition. Tom Harris wrote a piece on The Athletic about it earlier. I was reading that. I mean, teams don't do this. They have a traditional end that they shoot towards and they stick to it. So I've not really noticed anyone doing this before. They get turned around at home. Yeah. Well, James Katovsky did it, didn't he? For Everton earlier on in the season, United ended up winning 4-0. He also did it at Goodison Park to sort of get the sunlight out of Everton's

players' eyes in that game. Worked that time, in fairness. Yeah, it did. Bad first half. But, I mean, it does, you know, it's an interesting technique to think about. Or meeting an eight now, shooting to the Stretford end in the first half. There we go. I mean, Bruno Fernandes, obviously, he's spoken about this kind of stuff, hasn't he, before, where he sort of talks about being close to the referee because that's when opposition players can't see you. And then, we've got a sole United fan that is trying to get the atmosphere going

Ole Ole he's singing I don't know if you could pick that up on the microphone but fair play to him but yeah I thought this was a Ruman Amarin sort of director but apparently on TNT Sport before the game obviously they credited the Athletic with the scoop of the century he seemed nonplussed about it as if he didn't quite know that it was going on so maybe it was a Bruno Fernandes director some bright sparks noticed it and revealed it to the world I'm sure exactly he doesn't want to reveal his full hand does he yeah okay

He's really going for it.

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Timely result that for Ruben Amarin I think tonight because obviously it's been a week where he's been given backing from both Sir Jim Radcliffe and Omar Barada on the record. We didn't reflect on it too much Andy on the last podcast, well Talk The Devils Extra, I teased it earlier on in the show. If you haven't listened to it, go back and have a listen. It's all about Manchester United announcing this week that they intend to build a brand new 100,000 seater stadium for

Just behind where the current Old Trafford stands. There was nothing negative in it, I assure you. But yeah, an important result that tonight for Ameren just to repay the faith that he's been shown publicly this week. He said that he knew that he had their backing privately, but obviously for it to be on the record as strong as it was, that can only be a good thing for him.

They backed him. He's their man, so they'd look really foolish if they turned against him. Clearly, they need him to start winning. He had a great win tonight. I'm seeing more encouraging performances. You're seeing Patrick Dorgue and Heaven. The players that he's bringing in are looking good. You're seeing evidence of what he's trying to do in matches. I even thought that the away leg in San Sebastian was a really clever performance. You can see that he's adapting. Even the way he's saying that he's using Casemiro,

he's getting to know these players properly. You can't just expect him to come in and switch it on and everything will be fine. But he does need wins as well. We were all in the press conference after the game and I just thought he speaks so well, even with tricky questions where they're trying to catch him out. But that's only going to take you so far. And Manchester United are still 14th in the league and this season would have been written off. OK, sorry, sorry, sorry.

if United wouldn't have won but they did they absolutely battered 4-1 and we're all going to Lyon which is the gastronomic capital of France I'm sure can I just reveal something Andy do you know how confident and positive Andy was that United were going to Lyon

He booked his tickets and his hotel on 62 minutes. He did, he did. I saw it on the screen. How did you know which way round it was, by the way? It has been designed. I just know these little things. I didn't know that, no. So that would have been decided. Well, it better be because I paid for a train and a hotel. I'm pretty sure it gets decided tomorrow, Andy. And a flight.

well I'll lose a good few hundred quid if it does get decided you do an article on the Leon fans watching the way leg in Leon yeah I have checked have you bought yours Carl it's been in conversation with the higher ups so I will be returning to Leon for the first time in

It's a new stadium. You know the Athletic only ever put you in five-star hotels. Make sure they get you one of those. Demand it. This is it. I haven't done a European knockout covering United before. Normally, this is your realm, Laurie. So you've got to give me some tips as to where I should be staying and what sort of wineries in Lyon I should be staying at. I'm really excited for this. This is what a United season is meant to be about. It's meant to be April and you're meant to be thinking about European quarter-finals.

I was going to make a joke about, OK, it's not a Champions League, but I don't want to get hit by the buzzer. So I'm just going to say this is good. And I think at this point in time, you're looking at the brackets and you're looking at the teams remaining in the competition. If two or three players can return to full fitness by April time, United will nudge ahead as one of the supposed favourites for this competition. There's no reason to suggest they can't make it to Bilbao semi-final and all final. Winning this competition would be transformative, right?

not just winning the competition and everyone's buzzing and you've won a trophy it's getting into the Champions League next season and the guaranteed money that that will bring so it really is a big deal and Lyon's a great city these are the European places we want to be going to and we'd really miss it if we don't have any of that last year different stadium to when United played in Lyon last time played a couple of times there I remember a really big Champions League game where I think Carlos Tevez scored and it was absolutely brilliant they've moved since then it's like

a big 50-odd thousand-seater stadium, top city. This is what we're excited about. It's the spring. Everyone's looking forward to games like this. And had we not won tonight, we wouldn't be talking about any of that. It should go into one game every seven days. So absolutely buzzing.

Yeah, Carlos Tevez scored in the 87th minute the last time Manchester United played away at Lyon. It was 2008. United went through 2-1 on aggregate in the last 16 of the Champions League en route to winning the thing. This feels like the stage where Carlos Tevez would celebrate by getting a dummy out from his shorts because he just had a newborn. I remember watching one of those games going, that dummy's been down his pants. And it's Tevez as well.

That boy used to run and run and run. He'd be sweating a lot. Anyway. Yeah. Anyway. On your point, Ian, though, in terms of Amarim... Oh, do you remember that, Laurie? Yeah, I'm going back to the question. I mean, I did spark this segue, didn't I? So I'll try and bring it back around as well. Thank you. I do think it was an important night for Amarim because it just...

to not end but it certainly provided a sort of full stop to a week that has had a lot of news and ultimately what we care about really is what happens on the pitch and this was a performance that showed that these players can produce okay again it's Real Sociedad not the best team but equally the vibrancy that they had the that wasn't a negative that was a comparative and the

aggression off the ball particularly to Herx I thought his pressing was excellent the speed that he actually was showing as well so he's releasing the ball a lot quicker now he's not taking four or five touches anymore although that was one of the things that Ameryn was sort of a little bit a little note for him amid all the

the praise to say you don't have to score the most beautiful goal maybe sometimes you can release it quick and be more direct but I do think in terms of Ameren's confidence we discussed this on the podcast haven't we where we've sort of sensed is he sort of giving off the right

sort of sounds he's talking about his future and it felt very fragile but the absolute backing from Ratcliffe when he got into that sort of dispute with Gary Neville over him doing a good job he really sort of stuck to his guns there he's doing a great job is what he said which

It didn't feel like he would say that actually because he was quite open and honest about other aspects of exactly how he felt about the situation at United. He deserves a break from the criticism. And he showed how robust their conversations can be. Very open on that regard. Omar Barada was the same. I asked him in terms of would you like to see him open the new stadium? It was a

sort of a bit of a cheeky way of asking a stadium question but also a manager future question and what else is he going to say really but he did say we'd love for him to open this stadium and Ammarine himself is saying that's in the future I'll care about his winning now I'm winning trophies at Old Trafford but his noise was much more positive collaborative progressive about being at Manchester United and winning at Manchester United I think he just seems quite an honest guy and sometimes if he's in that

kind of mood he doesn't really want to rev up something for the sake of it he's quite happy to be you know sort of negative slightly um you know if you had your buzzer in the press conferences here maybe he wouldn't say these kind of things i'd have a field day mate a couple of weeks ago andy raised a really good point about amarin being a young coach and him having young assistant managers this is a coaching staff that had a lot of success in portugal sporting but this is

I think Amram will probably tell you however many years from now that this is probably the worst season. This is probably going to be the worst season that he's ever going to have as head coach. We hope so, don't we? I certainly hope so. This is probably the lowest period he's had as a coach. He's only known success so far, hasn't he? And it is...

quite rare in the top six, top, however, most expensive football clubs in Europe for managers to have a period that has been as low as some of the things that Amarant has experienced, particularly that low December. And then they've given time or given grace to work their way out of it. And I think the way Amarant is talking about

learning as a coach and improving as a coach and learning how to get more out of players like Casemiro as well is interesting. You don't normally expect to hear a football manager going, I'm having to learn how to use a football player better. It's interesting that as the options for him, Carl, have got fewer, he seems to have worked these things out more. Necessity is the mother of invention. I don't know who quoted that one, but I get told that a lot by my mentor. He's just got a little bit of clarity in there, right? You just...

There are only certain amount of moves he can make, so therefore he's making sure each move is as good as possible. Sure, okay, there might have been plenty of times where all of us can see, hmm, why are you giving so much space for Casemiro to cover? But Aaron just going, covering the space is better. This is Xerxe's performance. I'm going to have to watch it back. Because 10 weeks ago, 10 weeks ago, it looked like his United career was over.

and now look at him he got a standing ovation as it came off of Christian Eriksen it's just and he's not been called up by the Netherlands so he's got some time to rest in the March international break which is nice which is nice him and De Ligt have both been rested by Koeman Koeman doesn't appear to like either of these players and neither of those players have pulled up too many trees for the Netherlands he's still upset about 91 isn't he that's what it is

Someone should do some, I don't know, trips over there about something like that. Watch this space. Interesting extrapolation, I thought. That's a big word for me, by the way, at 25 past 11 on a Thursday evening. But interesting extrapolation in the interview, Andy, about...

Ratcliffe saying how much playing budget was actually available to Ruben Amerin because he had four of his biggest earners missing. He said it was a budget comparable to Everton or Nottingham Forest. Now, Forest was maybe not the best example to bring up considering the season that they've had. But actually, when you look at it like that, it brings the sort of role that Amerin's got at the moment into a bit of sharper focus, doesn't it?

it's got an incredibly difficult job to do and the minute he got the job I said that I said that on this podcast no you said it'd be fine he's going to win the league this season I remember distinctly

United are making cutbacks and we're all smiling now, but it's still a very difficult time for the club. The cloud, don't get your buzzer out, the cloud over the club has not completely dissipated. People are still accepting redundancies, going for redundancies, whatever. I'll keep this positive. I'll keep this positive. But it is a challenging time and injuries have still been prevalent.

It's a smallish squad anyway. Players have gone out on loan. Some of the biggest earners have not been around to be relied on. That's why I made the point about Casimiro. He's one of the biggest earners and he says the right things because he's got an absolutely huge contract, but he is genuinely contributing to the team now. And also seeing some of the more experienced players helping some of the younger players on. I thought De Ligt tonight was talking heaven through the game. There was a bit in the foot...

in the first half in particular he was talking to Heaven about how Heaven was passing to where players were stood but not into the spaces where you want them to be and you can see I mean De Ligt hasn't

the middle centre-back role for Duke hasn't been the best he seems to prefer it on the right but if he's taking time out going look I was 19 I was 18 I was 19 playing for a big football club this is how you do it that's great that's the sort of stuff you want from your teammates they're acting like a team again after so many weeks where there were times where they conceded and they looked like they hated each other they're acting like a team just a little bit that's nice sorry to cut you off Andy I'm not walking like a team now

We're all a team, Carl. We're all staying positive. We're all together on this podcast. Don't divide us, whatever you do. Elsewhere in Europe tonight, Fenerbahce, Jose Mourinho's Fenerbahce are out. Thanks partly to a missed penalty from Fred.

Anthony scored again. Andy got an assist, apparently, for Real Betis. We've not talked about him on the podcast much. Maybe they'll pay £6 million for him. Well, I mean, just keep doing it, mate, because you never know. Someone might pay something for you again in the summer, possibly. Or you might come back and be brilliant for Manchester United in more positive news. Let's take a break and we'll preview Leicester. What's my subscription to The New York Times have me doing this week? Preparing a strawberry pretzel pie.

Solving spelling bee with no hints. Planning a trip to one of the 52 best places to go. Getting to the bottom of the big pants trend. And I'm finally replacing my vacuum with a recommendation I can trust. What will your subscription to The Times have you do? Why not find out? With our best offer. Go to nytimes.com slash subscribe.

What up, y'all? Zena Kata here with a huge announcement. We're dropping a new show. No off-season, the Athletic Women's Basketball Show. Same place, same time, but we're bringing the heat with some brand new energy. Join myself, Ben, Chantel, and Sabrina as we give you an inside look at the game with candid conversations, in-depth analysis, and taking on the hottest topics around women's basketball. Plus, we're bringing in the biggest

biggest names in the game to weigh in on all the action. So mark your calendars because no off season. The athletic women's basketball show is launching Monday, March 17th with fresh episodes every Tuesday and Friday. You can find us on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Right. Next up Sunday, 7 PM, the King power stadium, two former premier league champions go head to head in battle.

And Andy Mitton's banned. Andy, why are you not allowed to go to the King Power Stadium on Sunday? Because every time I watch Ruud van Nistelrooy manage a team, they win. Have you seen him lose yet? No.

Oh dear. Are you there on Sunday? Yeah, I'm going to Leicester on Sunday. I'm getting the train down to Leicester. Any chance you could leave at half-time? I've actually got asked today by senior people at Manchester United not to go to the game and I'm not even joking. How many times have you seen Van Nistelrooy in charge of Leicester then? You were there for the Spurs game, weren't you? I went to the Spurs game when everyone expected him to lose and because I turned up, they would. So they've lost 12 out of 13? Yeah.

Yeah. And the one they win is when you're there. Yeah. Incredible. Yeah. And he knows that. And he offered to pay for me to go to Everton away. I said, I'm not because, you know, I can't justify that to my family. What it is, love, I'm not just watching Man United now. I've got to go to watch Leicester City. But I said, if they're really struggling at the end of the season, I'd go and watch them a few times. But,

I shouldn't really be saying that now because there's a game on Sunday. And Manchester United need to try and tap into this positivity to move up the table a little bit. Keep the momentum. Yeah. Definitely. And that's a point that Ruben Amarin spoke of as well. It's a really nice feeling when you're winning. And he also said it's unfortunate that it has to stop because you've got to focus on the next game, which is obviously against Leicester. Leicester's results have been horrendous. I feel for Ruud, but Manchester United need to capitalise on

on a bit of an uplift in mood and in performances as well. Yeah, they should be winning, Laurie, simple as that. I mean, Leicester haven't scored in four matches since they faced United in the FA Cup. In fact, that Decodover-Reed goal is the only time they've scored in six games since Andy Mitten last watched Ruud van Nistelrooy's Leicester City play in person at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. But United did make hard work of that FA Cup tie, to be fair, didn't they? I mean, if that's a basis...

to look forward to Sunday, it's not going to be straightforward. No, and he can't really sort of freshen up too much. I mean, he kept Manuel Agarte on the bench, you know, because he's obviously only just coming back. So maybe that's an opportunity to feature him. We obviously saw Mason Mount back

for the first time in 12 weeks on Wednesday morning at Open Training. That was another story, actually. You could give me some... I don't think spotting someone at Open Training is that much of a coup, to be honest. No, no, no. I told people that he was going to be spotted at Open Training. I don't remember that on the podcast. Okay, fine. Did you mention that on the podcast? It was another exclusive by three minutes. No, not on the podcast, just a story into the world of athletics. Oh, right. Don't count, then. Okay, fine.

Yeah, so what can he do in the team-wise? Yeah, I think the fact that he's got Aidan Heaven come through and show that he can play at this level is a huge bonus really, particularly with Lenny Oro's injury, Lisandro Martinez's injury, Patrick Dorg who acclimatised into England has been a huge benefit. So, yeah, how much... Toby Collier coming back, coming off the bench again. I thought he's been good off the bench the last three games so maybe he could get a start just, like I say, freshen things up. It'd be fantastic if Raz

Rasmus Hoyland could finally get this goal and just sort of start that momentum back a little bit. Again, I thought he was pretty decent tonight and Alejandro Garnaccio as well. I thought he ran his socks off. Maybe again, not quite picking the right passes at certain times, but you've got a sort of feeling around them now that, OK,

That's the blueprint there, the energy and the enthusiasm, the resilience. They should be able to go and do it away at Leicester. But this is the kind of stuff that obviously they've been undone by, isn't it? They've got up for big games like this in the season previously, Liverpool, City, Arsenal, and then they've kind of flummoxed against some of the lower lights. So, yeah, let's see. I mean, I'm just glad that I'm not there because... This is the Lowry-Woodwell derby, isn't it? You're doing this one as well, aren't you, Carl? But, I mean...

I'm just glad that I'm not there because it doesn't give Andy the chance to blank me again because he comes into the press box tonight I'm like hi Andy hi hi Andy he just walked past me no no no no okay there's two sides to every story so I seen these like it wasn't like the North Star but it was just this

burning light it wasn't like the new trident thing on top of the new stadium it was lorry's trainers and i was just blinded by them as i walked in and i seen these things just like two ufos in front of me you know um it's my tribute to lord norman foster sir norman foster you know well if you talk about the stadium you know they're going to bring it in on on the manchester ship canal

on barges I reckon you should put your traders forward to bring the new stands in for them that's the lighthouse yeah bring it back to football Carl come on I just remember Dorgus suspended for Sunday yeah oh yeah yeah it's the last game of his suspension yeah yeah so I mean Lindelof can play Amarin has done his pre-Leicester press conference tonight those quotes won't be available until half one I guess

Are they worth waiting for? No. Now you've teased them? Not really. No.

Isn't it great though that we already feel like we're missing a brand new player who's coming in because so many players need time to settle in and we cut players slack and he's made a real impact. We should have praised him more for going and telling a ref. I mean, part of me feels like, okay, you can use that when we've won 4-1 but maybe... That's what Aberyn said after the game. Maybe there's a crucial moment left in the remainder of this season, Patrick. I mean, good lad and all that and nice one, mate, but...

you know, let's keep your opinions to yourself if the referee points to the spot again. But yeah, I mean, he just was a threat all night and he's been the same pretty much since he first came into the team. And he also allows you to see what an actual wing-back can do in this system. Carl, you're nodding at me enthusiastically. I like it. An actual wing-back with a left foot so he can go on the outside. And that

That's so important. That left-hand side of Heaven, Dorgue and Xerxe, I think has a really nice balance. The first half, there were two or three times we could see Amarin giving guidance to Dorgue in particular. A lot of calming down, calm down, calm down, calm down when they're off the ball. There were two or three times with Dorgue, perhaps a little bit too excitable and wants to make a tackle and Amarin just saying, no, just stay, tuck inside.

The good thing with Dorgu and Heaven on that left-hand side together is they're both quick in open space. They've both got the ability to make recovery tackles. So if the ball does get chipped over with a through ball and they've both got run back to their own net, you know one of them can make the tackle at the very least. There was a little hurdy-gurdy moment in the first half when they were trying to play at the back and the ball got lost and you're like, oh, this is weird. And then you remember how young both of them are as well.

So when Doku returns for the Premier League game after Leicester, I'd like to see more of him with Heaven or another centre-back perhaps when Jorah gets back as well. But I think there's a real nice balance there too. Yeah, that will be Nottingham Forest after the international break. But let's leave it there on Talk of the Devils.

It's been a lovely positive podcast, haven't it? Exactly the way it should be. We'll be back after Leicester. Just to warn you though, it'll be a little bit later than usual because we are very excited about our next live show, which is in London at Leicester Square Theatre on Monday night. If you're coming along, it will be brilliant to see you there. Thank you very much for getting your tickets. If you're not, we'll be back in your ears probably later on on Tuesday. We're going to record on Tuesday morning, June

So we'll get that out as soon as possible. But yeah, thank you for listening. Thank you for all your comments as always. We do listen. I think tonight proves that, if nothing else. But get in touch if you've got anything to say or you've got any questions for us. Devilspod at theathletic.com and we'll speak to you early next week. Have a great weekend. Let's enjoy the moment. Let's hope Manchester United continue it on Sunday. Take care. Bye-bye.

Thanks for listening. Don't know if I said that as well. And just for one last time, just for fun, over and out. Could get used to this. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

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