Fixtures, striker search, and ticket price reaction
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This is Talk The Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. The Premier League fixtures are out and we're here to talk about them. We've also got an overview of Andy's chat with Omar Barada. Carl's been shopping for strikers and there's the breaking news as well that Nick Cox looks set to depart Manchester United. Friend of the show, Nick Cox. The only way to talk about all of that, of course, is to get a full band together. So we've got Laurie, we've got Carl.

Andy Moise

Those were the days when they didn't want Manchester United to be winning the league all of the time. If there's any motive, I'm not sure what they are this time. Burnley is winnable. An island. Fulham, well, Manchester United always do very well against Fulham. But I remember Chelsea opening game...

Three or four years ago, a wild one this, but speaking to Andreas Pereira pre-season, and he just said, we're going to kill Chelsea. I'm like, what? We are going to kill Chelsea? He was right. And he was right. Yeah. It's like the 4-0 game against Frank Lampard's Chelsea. Yeah. In a Solskjaer.

Just to spell it out, if people haven't seen it, it's Arsenal at home to start, then it's Fulham away, then it's Burnley at home, the island, then Manchester City away, and then Chelsea at home. I mean, it doesn't get much tougher than that, Carl, does it? Three of last season's top five to begin things. It's a spicy one for sure. There was a chance that things would be a little different in the fixture list because this is the first season since 14-15 without any European football.

Premier League season starting with a game against Arsenal at home, that gets the blood pumping for me. Gets me excited about things. But it does...

There's your sound effects already. My mate Jake has texted me and he says no wimp chat until pre-season. So I'm going to try and stay positive here. Laurie, if you want to start a season properly, play the best, beat the best and get on with it. That's the way to do it, isn't it? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I like how you sort of cut things off there with Chelsea at home because sort of three fixtures after that, it's Liverpool away, right? So is that the first eight games you've then got the champions to finish off? Oh, you're extrapolating now.

I mean, to be honest, the 38-game schedule looks tough. Yeah, exactly. Any team coming to Old Trafford or any visit that United have to make, they obviously struggled in pretty much every game. I think to Carl's point, certainly the fact that United don't have European football...

is helpful for this start. I mean, clearly Ruben Amarin's going to have to have a strong start after the way that the season ended last season. They've got pre-season tour in the US and then they come back and yeah, they are straight into it. So they have to get the details right over in America. They have to make sure that preparation's ready, that they've got a team on the edge, ready to play because it's going to be unforgiving from the get-go.

Yeah, just to look at some of the other standout games then as well, we mentioned the first Manchester derby, that's in the middle of September, away at the Etihad, the home one is not until the middle of January, you've then got the first Liverpool game like Laurie said, the 18th of October at Anfield, we've got to wait all the way until the 3rd of January to play Leeds United again, away at Ellen Road which feels like a long wait, I know there'll be a lot of fans very much looking forward to that old rivalry being reignited, but

We'll be right back.

And the important game, Andy, to look out for at the end of the season is the final home game, which is against Nottingham Forest, because that's the game where you would get presented with the trophy, wouldn't you? Yeah, absolutely. 21st league title, Old Trafford. It's going to be sunny. Euland's going to collect his award as well for being the league's top scorer. Life will just be wonderful. Going back to a couple of them games you mentioned, Newcastle, that's exactly the same as last year, isn't it? They came to Old Trafford.

when they had that really good first half on the same day. Brighton away, we always play Brighton away at the end of the season. We always play Newcastle on Boxing Day at home, don't we? That seems to have been a fixture they've played loads. Brighton away was 23-24, so before the FA Cup final. Yeah. That was one. And a few others, I remember Mourinho's season as well. It's a completely randomised list. Premier League team plays 19...

other teams home and away in some sort of order and here we go. Yeah, how are we actually feeling then? It's been a little while since the football stopped Laurie, we're getting on for about a month aren't we? We're a month and a day away from the first pre-season game against Leeds so you don't have to actually wait that long to play Leeds but I just meant actually competitively, that's in Stockholm. So you've

Are we feeling any different to when the season stopped, building up to the new campaign, or has time healed wounds?

Have you had time to forget, or how are you feeling? I've certainly had time to forget. I can't believe it's been a month since United played. Nearly. Yeah, nearly a month in Bilbao, three days shy of that. Well, they played Villa then, yeah? I know. I've been away on holiday, had a nice little break, so yeah, I did switch off there. So I think that's the point at which you definitely can refer to last season as last season, and obviously now fixtures are out, it's the coming season. Yeah.

I mean, Mateus Cunha coming in, it's a signing that they needed to make, I think, quickly. You've got the ongoing still negotiations with Brentford for Brian Mbermo and the various sort of stories that are coming out around that. I think Andy's interview with Omar Barad has been well-timed as well. I think that is something that kind of resets the expectations and gives a bit of context to at least what the hierarchy are hoping will happen. Obviously, it's another thing actually then,

coming to fruition so yeah I mean we'll see when we still feels quite a long way away this you know yeah I mean what is it we the longest day of the year yet is it feels like it was sort of light until 10 o'clock in the in the evening last night and so I don't feel like that's the time that football really starts get going 21st of June Larry yeah it's a couple of days away we go I'd

I like that you know that kind of stuff just straight off. It's pretty set, that. Is it? It's always the 21st of June. I think it's quite common knowledge, actually, to be honest. It's called the summer solstice. Yeah, they have festivals and things. Fantastic. I'll get my bunting out for them then. Who's around now? Waiting to hear about the winter solstice as well. I bet it's really going to fall off. How old are you? You're nearly 40 and you've not realised there's a summer solstice.

I don't know what date it's on. Why would I know that? Do you know what day like Christmas Day is? I've got too much other things in my mind. Yeah, Christmas Day is a set day every year. Do you really celebrate the summer solstice? Do you make presents for people? I mean, I'm not a Stonehenge. Have a nice meal. It is a pretty big deal. People are.

It is celebrated around the world. Can listeners let us know if this is a major thing for people? I think they'll be aware of the date. And we're not saying that we're putting the party...

banners out and blowing balloons up. I might just do that for this year just to really make a statement. Why not? You've got three days. Then it'll cement in my mind this is the day. You've got three days to get it sorted. Andy, obviously we'll talk about your interview with Omar Barada in a moment, but how do you feel about the season coming? I read in your article on The Athletic that basically you felt pretty down

as we all witnessed post the final couple of matches, but then speaking to Omar actually lifted you a little bit. I was very down. I've never been lower after Bill Bowe for reasons we discussed. Like, Laurie, I welcome the signing of Kunja. I came out of that chat thinking this is a man who's got a very clear idea of what he wants to happen. Clearly, we all want it to happen as well. His reasons for going forward

for Ruben Amarin mid-season are logical to me let him get used to the league to the opposition to the media to you know it being sunny every day in Manchester even on the summer solstice but

Then hitting the season now with another transfer window behind him. They're all positives to me, not negatives. I can even see logic in no European distraction. Not that I agree with that. I'd much rather Manchester United be playing European football. And I think there is a natural pre-season optimism that every football fan has. And I think there will be more signings as well. And because they're new, every single signing is greeted differently.

in an idealised world that this play is going to be effective and an improvement on what we already have we know too well that that doesn't already happen so I am feeling better I don't think Manchester United will be winning the league next season but I am feeling a little bit better and

I think with more signings, I'd feel even better. More signings, you say? Transfer junkie Andy's back. An email here that we'll get out from Matthew. I was one of the subscribers who filled out Carl's questionnaire and predicted a Europa League place. I think maybe a domestic cup too, because they can put out stronger teams with no European games. The team must be better than next season.

mustn't it? mustn't it Matthew? he then goes on to say one tenuous reason for optimism is that I actually like the new home shirt I don't think I've liked any since Jose was in charge and maybe if they look better they'll play better somebody's written an article about the new home shirt Carl haven't they? they have someone's also used if you look good you play good as well in the previous article does that work? if you look good you feel good you feel good you play good you play good they pay good Deion Sanders

And that's why I get a haircut before big games. Did you have one before the media game at Old Trafford? No, that's what I am. Probably lost two of my markers on corner kicks there. Oh, okay. I was actually re-watching our equaliser though, Carl. You were part of the build-up. I was. I was. Wide-sided centre-back progressing the ball. Ameren's on to something. Yeah.

Listen, it didn't go directly to one of your own teammates. It had to go via an opponent first, but still, you know, progressed with the pitch. The new home kit, it's red. Again? It's red again. It's the right shade of red? Very deep, deep red. I went to a very lovely event at Old Trafford with Wes Brown and Phil Jones there. I called Phil Jones, Mr. Jones, and his eyebrows flew up his head. I went, no one's ever called me Mr. Jones. It's just Phil. And we had a very nice conversation about what both men think of

United's array of centre-backs, which I'll probably look to turn into a piece over this summer as well. It is £85. I'm getting to that age now where I've got that sort of elder relative voice on where I'm like, if I do have to get you a new United kit for Sonny, that is £85 burning a hole in my wallet.

It's nice. Keep your money, Carl. Don't worry. You've got to connect. Yeah, the prices are the prices, aren't they? Everywhere, it seems to be like that now. I mean, I bought a kit for my daughter a couple of years ago. I was absolutely astounded at how much it was, especially when you were getting the printing done on the back and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, we sound old, so let's talk about something else.

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I want my dog to live a long, happy life, maybe even hit 19. So I feed them Ollie. Ollie's fresh and nutritious human-grade meals are made to support their health and happiness with protein-packed recipes dogs go crazy for, like beef with sweet potatoes, turkey with blueberries, or lamb with cranberries. Honestly, you might start thinking, dang, my dog eats better than I do. And that's probably true when it comes to Ollie. Head to ollie.com slash healthy pup and use code healthy pup to get 60% off your first box of meals.

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to time with the Premier League fixtures, but it's also time, Laurie, with a story about Nick Cox, friend of the show Nick Cox, no less, who looks to be on his way to,

to Everton. This is a huge blow, isn't it? And quite surprising news, maybe. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I'm sort of thinking it's something we said because obviously we had Nick Cox and Adam Lawrence and Colin Little on the podcast a few weeks ago when they were on the verge of going into the semi-final of the FA Youth Cup and obviously Adam Lawrence is departing and now Nick Cox looks set to leave your club as well.

More seriously, it's a really big opportunity for him to go to Everton, new stadium, new ownership, new chief executive in Angus Kinnear as technical director. So basically leading up the football department at a senior level, that is definitely a step up, even from a club...

you're at Manchester United where the academy is such a huge part of it and the heritage is there and trying to sustain that is a huge task. I think going to a senior role of that scale at a Premier League club is definitely a step up. And so, yeah, Everton have headhunted Nick and

and he looks like he's going to accept it I think there's still a period of work that he's going to complete at United whilst they try and find a replacement it's quite a fresh thing this I think still so yeah there's going to be a transition period certainly but it's a new sort of set up at Everton isn't it where you've got I think it's James Smith coming across from Man City as leading role in recruitment I think James

the expectation would be that Nick Cox would be a part of that, but also lead on the kind of technical aspects of the club. So, you know, football operations perhaps and working closely with David Moyes, you know, I think that's an interesting link up to have as well. Someone as strong as David Moyes clearly needs, you know, people in roles that he can trust and can get along with. So that's something that I think is a key part to observe. And,

But it's a big loss to United because Nick's been at the club for nine years and has been Academy Director, leading the Academy since 2019, where he took over from Nicky Butt. You've got Alejandro Garnaccio coming through, Kobi Meunier coming through in that time, Anthony Alanga, who's then been sold, obviously, Toby Collier and Harry Amas in the first team this year. So a lot of Academy players making their debuts and being successful.

sort of promoted into the system and then perhaps being sold on. So I think he's had a lot of change that he's influenced at United in the academy set-up. So it'll be interesting to see what direction United go now. So this is clearly, obviously there's been a lot of change at the club, right? There's been so many people leaving and new faces coming in. This isn't part of the redundancy programme. This is a situation where Everton have headhunted Nick and he's decided that I think he wants to go and now it's on

Jason Wilcox as the new director of football. I think we should also point out moving up from technical director to oversee the transition now from who is going to be director of Man United Academy. It's a huge role. It's a big, important role. I think getting it right is going to be essential. Nick, you've just added over an hour to your daily commute each day. Where is the logic in that?

As Laurie said, very highly rated. I think he's excellent at his job, but almost better than that. He's a really good human. He cares about the young players. He knows that statistically only a small percentage will make it and establish themselves in the first team at Manchester United. But he treats them all equally, keeps in touch with all of them, makes sure that the club does loads of back-channel stuff.

And he's a really impressive character. And I've got to know him pretty well over the years that he's been there.

I think he was exactly right for that role. And when I heard the news, I was sad that Nick Cox is leaving or maybe leaving Manchester United. He's been on this podcast several times. We've had a good chat with him. He's always really, really open. I've watched games with him. I just turn up sometimes on a Saturday morning and stand with him and he just tells you what's going on and who's X and who's Y. And I just wind him up and say to him like,

How embarrassing would it be now if I just run on the pitch and celebrate a goal? At what point am I losing my job or are you losing yours? And he'd just grow up. He's good. He's really, really good. And that's why Everton have come in for him. And it's a much more senior role because you're working with the first team then. There's a lot of bullshitters in football. There's a lot of blaggers in football. He definitely isn't one of them. And even within the United world...

I would hear about certain people, you know, former pros might say, well, what does he know? Cause he didn't use to play whatever. Nick Cox was someone who always scored really well, right across the board with everyone. Even your miserable moaning cynics would all go, Nick's a good lad. So sad, sad.

Yeah, that's the impression that we've had as well, Kyle, when he's been on the podcast, is that he is someone who, you know, there's obviously an authenticity, a lot of knowledge and expertise there, but a proper person, a proper man, someone who has really shaped the way that Manchester United develop players, both on and off the field. Absolutely. There are times where you can talk to people in and around academy football and they have a tendency to describe academy players almost like they're livestock players.

or like the academy is a factory and it just produces, manufactures football players. But when you talk to Nick and you talk about his approach to, I mean, one of the most famous academies in world football, he very much talks about the human being. He very much talks about the young boys coming through and trying to make sure they're well-rounded people and not just,

football players who will one day play for Manchester United and that always stuck out. One thing that also stuck out in his conversations is how he talks about stretch goals as well. So if the under-18 team is beating teams 5-6-7-0 week to week, Nick will talk about what United do to try and change things. So they actually keep pushing and improving as football players, as human beings as well, which I think is to be applauded. In the world of football, when you get reputation for being this good...

it is little surprise you also start getting job offers from other people who want to try and pull for you and figure out what the secret sauce is. So it's little surprise that he has been approached and headhunted by Everton. It does now, with also the departure of Lawrence, create this bit of a head scratcher for the upcoming season now because there are two big roles within the academy that need to get sorted out rather quickly. Jason Wilcox,

has history with academy teams at City and at Southampton so hopefully he's got names in his phone book that can possibly do a role but these are two big roles that will need to be filled sooner rather than later. Do we know a time frame Laurie for

what's going to happen moving forward in terms of Nick leaving, being replaced, et cetera, et cetera. Yes, I think he's actually got a period of about 12 months in his contract, but I don't think it's going to be a Dan Ashworth situation. So, yeah. But I think it's going to be a few weeks. I don't think it's like,

he's going over to Everton right away and going to be helping out with transfers for their first team. I think it's going to be a progress of a few weeks, I think, maybe after the summer, something like that. It's hard to say because I think as soon as...

If United find somebody that they really like and they want to bring him in straight away, maybe that accelerates the process. But as far as I'm aware, I don't think they've even started that. And to Carl's point, certainly, yeah, Jason Wilcox has that background in the academy circles. He'll have ideas. It'd be interesting to see which way they go because...

I do feel like the United Academy is a special part of the club and you've obviously got people that have come through the academy themselves and whether you can tap into that, I think could be essential, but it is a, it's a heavy administrative role as well because, you know, you, there's a lot of regulations around it. There's a lot of serious aspects to it that you have to have, right? I mean, Nick has just completed his UEFA pro license course, for example. So he's like, you know, qualified coach to the top level. So that is a,

sort of ribbon to his bow that I think is, you know, not necessarily everyone will have that. So how do you kind of...

I've mangled that saying there. Not many people have ribbons on their bows, but anyway. Strings, maybe? Summer solstice and strings to the bows. I'm really nailing my general knowledge here. Getting the ribbons out for the summer solstice, yeah. But it's a big role. I mean, that was kind of why Nicky Butt, for example, he's got that huge heritage of...

And he knew exactly what it took to be a United player coming through the academy. But he actually recognised that Nick Cox was a better person for that director of academy role. So that's why they switched in 2019. And so it does, yeah. So I don't know who they're going to go for. I don't think United necessarily know themselves. But it's clearly, yeah, going to be sort of, I think, eagerly,

applied for position no two years ago I never said this I never made it public but Nick Cox asked me to go in to speak to his staff because he had a theory that many of the people working at the club lived in Manchester but they weren't from Manchester they didn't understand Manchester they didn't know about the culture of Manchester and

So obviously he asked the world's biggest bank union, me who flies in from Barcelona. And I go there and he hides out the science and industry museum. And there's like 150 people. It was all done really seriously. This was his idea. No one's ever asked me to do this before. And it was all about the industrial revolution, the music of Manchester. He just sees things outside the box. He realizes that it's not just about results on a Saturday and,

that there is so much more to getting a good end product. And that for me, just for me personally, was a really good example of how Nick Cox works and to have an idea, to see the idea through. We brought in a couple of other people, boxing trainers from Wythenshawe, well-known Mancunians. It was a private event, so it's not really fair to name them. But that's the sort of thing you want Manchester United to be doing.

And Nick was a real driver of that on the youth side. And if he goes to Everton, it's probably the sort of thing that Everton need as well. So yeah, I'd be sad that he's going. So Nick Cox got you in to explain the concept of Mithrin. Mithrin, yeah. Manchester words.

There's people working the academy. They're not all on the football side either. There's secretaries there. There's cleaners there. And this is another positive, the inclusion aspect of it. It's like, it's not just players here. There's 150 people. The academy was a... I know it's been trimmed down now. And you could see some of the people there were just switched on for it. And you'd have people there like...

Paul McShane, who's a coach who's been in a dressing room banterish environment. And I just point at someone and go, favourite Joy Division song. And some people will go bang like that. And other people would squirm in the seats. You'd have to go a bit easier on them and go, you know, have you ever heard of the Stone Roses? And they go, of course you have, you knob. And he could just see that Manchester and Manchester United are intertwined.

And yet you had a position where people lived in Manchester and knew next to nothing about the city. And that was something he wanted to address. And that was good. Yeah. Okay. So what is your favorite Joy Division song? I'm getting into a few of the...

The more bizarre ones. Let me answer this on the next question because I heard one last week and I just thought... He's filibustering here. Yeah. Do you know when you said people floundered when you got asked that question? I can go for the obvious ones. Love will tear us apart or atmosphere. Yeah, surely. I'm listening to a big podcast on New Order and I heard one on it from early Joy Division last week and I thought, whoa, that is brilliant. Give me a few days and I'll answer it properly. Okay. I've also got to ask you because not everyone who listens to this podcast

is from Manchester or has visited Manchester, can you explain the concept of mithering? Yeah, mithering. If you mither someone, then you're pestering them. There are Manchester words and mither is one of them, isn't it? And even within Manchester, there's big variations with the accent. We've touched on it in the past in the podcast. You can have a perfect Mancunian accent like myself or you can have a North Manchester accent and go, all right. Or you can say the word yellow as yellow.

Mither, if you mither someone, then it's a very Manchester word, isn't it? Stop mithering me, you nose. There you go. Speaking of mithering people, somebody recently mithered the Manchester United CEO for 70 minutes for an interview for his fanzine.

United We Stand. We're talking about our Andy, obviously, another Mancunianism there, with Omar Barada. The interview is out in the summer edition of United We Stand. I'd encourage you to go and get yourself a copy of that. Andy has all the details on his social media. There's obviously details of the interview and some quotes on The Athletic as well. If you've not seen them already, go and have a look at that. But Andy, yeah, very revealing. A great get for you, again,

But what was the thing that stood out to you the most from your chat with Omar? The coffee that I got served. A little, surely. It probably was. I think Omar's a very smart man and I knew that he was well-rated at Barcelona. That's why he got the job at a football team near Oldham. He was going to be the top man at Manchester City and then United offered him the job.

and he described it as a whirlwind, the 11 months that he's been at the club. I think it's really important, and I've always done this, I've done it for 30 years, to get in front of the leading execs and challenge them on issues like ticket prices, like the protests that we saw last season, the redundancies. I've got friends of mine who've lost their jobs, who've done absolutely nothing wrong because of the cutbacks at Manchester United.

But I also felt it was really important to learn more about Omar himself. I don't think fans know anything about him, about his background. Really, really interesting. You know, his Moroccan heritage, growing up in Morocco, being a big football fan. He speaks five languages. He's lived in five different countries. His parents, his dad was an economics professor. You know, he's a seriously bright human. His mum worked for UNICEF. So in my mind, I'm going, ah,

Ah, so that's why UNICEF did the deal with Barcelona, which was a good thing at the time. And you might correct me on that. I go, actually, no, it was nothing to do with me, but...

Two and two makes four. He's got a pretty clear idea of where Manchester United go. He absolutely backs Ruben Amorim, which you would expect him to. He explained why he brought him in mid-season, how he got certain things wrong. It's seven and a half thousand words. There's an awful lot to go out there. I wish him well. I appreciate the time that he gave me. There was things we agreed on and we disagreed on. Same with Sir Jim Ratcliffe. I think it's good that they talked to a fanzine.

I've met him a couple of times, met him pre-season and then mid-season as well. But I also think it's for others to judge rather than me because I sort of did it. And if one of you says it's absolutely shit, then fair enough. You're entitled to that opinion. I just did it. Laurie? No, absolutely. No, no, no. No, I actually read this full thing, Andy. Seven and a half thousand of your finest words. First thing Laurie's ever read of mine, by the way, listeners. Okay.

No, no, he read the FCSB explainer that time, didn't he? Has he? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, I did also read your Athletic article on Manchester United being massive and that's why they can sign Cunha and attract Mbomo, but maybe we'll discuss that later on in the podcast. It's always difficult with these interviews. I think Fantastic Get, first time that he's spoken to

uh, you know, an English media outlet in this way, uh, since he's been at United and the point at which you push back on the redundancies, I thought was important. The fact that they did say it was going to be one round of redundancies and then it turned out to be two. Uh,

and he owned up to that. And also the protests that are in front of the director's box, you know, about moving those people that are there to basically make them, you know, high ticket seats. I think he's, you know, I guess they've made the decision on that, haven't they? So what more can he say? But I think it is notable that they obviously were there seeing these signs protesting. And I think that was partly why Tijan Ratcliffe wasn't at Old Trafford for those final weeks because of the kind of

optics of that would have been really awkward. Well, holding his hands up for making an error on the £66 decision as well, or at least the communication of that and the timing of it as well. What did you make of his sort of answer on appointing Ruben Amarin? Because I thought he was pretty sort of influential on that, but he was sort of saying it was more of a football technical decision. But I'm not sure, was Jason Wilcox that...

point in his time that high profile, that much influence, because obviously Dan Ashworth then left not long afterwards. So I kind of thought maybe Omar Barada was more involved than that. But what did you make of it? I think it was a pushback to people like me saying that he was more involved than he actually was.

I think he's saying that he didn't make the appointment as it's not his skill set, but I appreciate it could be read the other way because what was the technical team at the time? I think he's absolutely behind Ruben Amorim, but he has to be, doesn't he? Because he has been an important part of that. He was influential in the point. How influential, you know?

That's the question which Laurie's writing. I think he's trying to wind you up there Andy. Who has made the decision? Dan Ashworth was still around wasn't he? And we remember talking on this podcast at the time where we were like whoa whoa whoa I could sell that Laurie sensed something was amiss with Dan Ashworth a few weeks before it happened. Is that fair Laurie to say that?

I think so. Just the point at which he wasn't the one going over to Lisbon. It was Omar Baradar negotiating. And obviously in your interview with him, he says, well, that's because I had the relationship, but it was a negotiation at that point. So it's chief executive level stuff at that point. But maybe it's a moot point in the end, because ultimately you've got this guy here who he absolutely backs, who Jason Wilcox has a strong relationship with, which he went into in your interview. They absolutely back him. So Jim Ratcliffe, clearly, I think the whole aspect of

Berardy getting appointed was interesting, you know, with Dave Brailsford going to his house and then Sajan Ratcliffe going to his. I thought that was really interesting. How does that happen? How are you then chief executive of Manchester United? And then how do further football decisions get made around that? So in relationship with the Glazers and that all, I thought that was all really interesting, really important to kind of convey. So yeah, what was your sort of bit that stood out to you? Do you think, Andy, the most? I came out of it feeling more optimistic than when I went in. And I think I mentioned that in the

on the Athletic I think he's very good at dealing with the noise around Manchester United because he's worked at football clubs which are

albeit at a lower level. Barcelona is far more difficult than Man United because you've got the political aspect that you don't have at Man United and you've also got a media split as well, right down the middle of the Catalan media. You don't have that as much, but there's clearly huge pressure at Manchester United and that ability to avoid the noise, and let's be honest, nonsense every single day, utter tripe, which is written about the club, about players, about

even about yourself when you're in a high position, especially this time of year in the silly season. And I know as journalists, we've had bits of that ourselves where something you've said is taken out of context. You're like, we've not even said that. So imagine sitting on top of that. I really liked his way he handled the football industry. I just said it's full of bullshitters and he's got a lot of experience on the commercial and the football side of it as well.

he's still relatively young I think he's the first leading exec at United who's younger than me so I'm like whoa why is this happening relatively but he's really smart you know he's really really smart you can see that he's got a strategic way of thinking his

He's quiet. He listens. Can I ask you the five languages? Yeah, he speaks five languages. Can you guess what they are? English, Arabic. Moroccan Arabic, yeah. Well, French. Spanish and Catalan. Are they different languages? Yeah, they're totally different. So he was born in Paris and then he moved to Barcelona and he started working at FC Barcelona and someone at the club went, no, no, no, no, you don't speak Spanish here. And he took it off his own back to learn Catalan, which is difficult, but he did it.

and even quite early on, so he's at Barca, and they're basically the best team in the world, they'd just beaten Man United, even then he could see the Premier League was the future, so he took his family, and he's got a young family, and he told me about his family, someone doesn't have to be open about details like that, and also, not a single question was shirked, no copy approval, nothing like that, and to be fair, Ratcliffe was the same, and that can be a rarity today in the media world, and every single question that was put to him,

Including some awkward ones as well. And also him knowing that answers can be twisted. You can take a line out of seven and a half thousand words and you can twist it. But I think it was a fair reflection of our chat. I'm really glad I did it. I'm really glad that he spoke to us.

And I wish him well. I think most United fans wish him well. And it's complex. You know, I'm like, how do you work this with the Glazers, with the debt structure? I've been very, very honest. We all have about how we feel about the Glazers and the debt at Manchester United. And he's somehow got to navigate this and make Manchester United profitable again and make Manchester United a winning football team again. It's all on his watch now while making really unpopular decisions. So, yeah,

A couple of years ago, we had a series of small wins for fans, beer prices, stuff like that. Ticket prices being frozen for a decade, which no one thanks the club for at the time. But they can't stay frozen forever, can they? Because they just can't. And so he's the one who has to make the decision. And he said he gets some things right, he gets some things wrong. I think communication is really important as well.

And the fact that he did that is a plus for him. I honestly wish him well. Yeah, OK. Well, if you want to read the article, you know what to do. Go and have a look on The Athletic for Andy's take on speaking to Omar Barada. More importantly, get yourself a copy of United We Stand. It'll cheer you up. There's a picture of Ruben Amerin done by our friend Stanley Chow on the front, promising that the good times are coming back. And Tom's backed us up on email as well. He said the good times are coming back.

This is from a former upper tier Stretford ender. 12 years ago, he gave up his season ticket, rehouses temperamental but majestic giant rabbit, Eric. His words, not mine. Him and his wife set off for Columbia and then Brunei. The last game he attended at Old Trafford was the final home game in 2013, Ferguson's last game, watching them lift the Premier League trophy for one final time under the legendary boss. But fear not, I'm coming home in three weeks.

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Right, shopping for strikers. Matthias Kunja is in. The number nine search continues. Carl has, well, what would I call it? A very detailed and quite extensive list of targets Carl's written about as well in his shopping for strikers piece. But this is not Ruben Amerin's thoughts that you've written about Carl, is it? No, no. I want to make that very clear. Important to note that. I want to make that very clear. We talk about things being taken out of context. And I know two or three, as we're in season two or three,

individuals and groups decided to pilfer some of my analysis and pass it off as some insider knowledge between Amory and United Higher Ups.

So this is the return of what we used to call shopping for Ten Hag, where I watched a bunch of Ajax games, looked at a bunch of Ajax players, and went, based on what we know from Eric Ten Hag's preferences, these are the sort of players he might try to target in the transfer window. So I guess this is... The actual Ajax players that you'd watch. Indeed. Yeah. So I suppose this is acquiring for Amarin. So this is me looking at a bunch of sporting CP games,

Looking at what United currently have within their squad and then going, right, based on this, based on that, Manchester United need strikers that are good at the following. And the current strikers who are good at the following begin with the two victors, Oshim and Jokeres. And then we have to get into some X's and O's right now. I think, and this is, again, my opinion, but if you've acquired Kunya to play left-sided 10 and you are in the hunt for Brentford's Brian,

as your right-sided 10, then that means, one, Bruno Fernandes is going to drop deeper into midfield, and that probably means you need your striker to be less of a Joshua Xerxe type, who wants to drop deep and connect play, especially because you already have a Joshua Xerxe type, and more someone who wants to play in the last line of defence. So someone who's going to spend a lot of the game stood between the two centre-backs, trying to occupy two centre-forwards, and trying to run in behind. If you are a United fan of a certain vintage...

Amren's probably looking for Andy Cole rather than Dwight York, if that makes sense. And if you're not a United fan of that vintage, you are probably looking for Ibrahimović before you're looking for Cavani. And you're looking for Martial before you're looking for Lukaku. Does that make sense? Yeah, just about. I'm just about following. I'm a United fan of all those vintages, so I followed all the way through. Just before we get into some of the details on the victors and the others...

Is there an update, Laurie, on United's striker search? It's been a quiet-ish week of rumours, considering how it had gone at the very start of June. But obviously, Brian and Bermo, there's been lots of details on that. Hugo Iketike is a new name for Manchester United fans to get potentially excited about. There's detail on the deal sheet on The Athletic by Seb Stafford-Bloor on United Inquiring.com.

for the Stuttgart striker. Victor Jokeres, the chat around that remains as crazy as it was. Yeah, the Victor Jokeres one is the one, I suppose, that caught fire a little bit last week. Blackmailing insults. Yeah, well, and then sort of seemed to get water doused all over it from a United point of view fairly quickly. Because we sort of discussed, I think, months ago, didn't we, when we first...

made the liam de la link to united that yocarez was an unlikely uh sort of arrival just because of the european situation and it seems like that's sort of still really the case there's a moment where it felt like from reports that maybe he changed his mind but arsenal seems to be his preference if they don't do benjamin sesco i mean it's it's all sort of up in the air a little bit on that front i do think that ruben amarin you know is a big fan of victor yocarez so i can imagine well i'm

more than imagining that he's pushing behind the scenes to get players in that can make an immediate impact. I think that's something that he has...

felt is required which is why you've got Cunha and Bumo coming in, players that have been in the Premier League already that have scored goals because adding goals to this team is absolutely essential. I do think there's a thought that if those two, with Bumo coming in as well, do happen that then United's front line could potentially be a rotating carousel with those two each potentially occupying the number nine role at different points.

would United still sign a striker after all that? I think it's still a little bit of an open question, particularly with Rasmus Hoyland, what happens with him, obviously you're interested in him, but that still feels like a long way from coming to any kind of

advanced stage. So yeah, there's obviously options. Ekotike is out there, you know, Frankfurt, you know, clearly will sell, but it seems a very high number being said. So, I mean, I know that United have got some space in the PSR and obviously as, uh, Berardi was telling Andy, you know, they can spend 500 million pounds this summer. Um,

No problem. No questions asked. Obviously, I'm joking there before that gets pulled out. It will get pulled out. Then it'll be like, Laurie Whitwell says.

I don't. I instantly retract that. But they can spend a bit, but equally, without sales, they can't really sign a third player. I think they can do in Burma and Cunha, but I don't think they can sign a third one. Certainly not of that weight and significance of finance without making a sale, which obviously they are intending to do. Marcus Rashford, Alejandro Garnaccio,

clearly two players that could command tens of millions of pounds that would then be reinvested but yeah so there's options I think Amarin is pushing behind the scenes but whether it doesn't feel like anything's particularly you know about to be imminent the Mboma one is the one where they negotiate with Brentford aren't they Brentford

have a price in mind. They want more than the Cunha fee because they feel that his numbers justify that. United have made one bid. Obviously, he talks about making a second bid. When does a bid become a bid? Yeah, hopefully, I think we'll get that sorted. I know Spurs are there in the background, but it feels like Mbumu wants United. So let's see how it develops. I know the dog's getting excited as well. You've probably heard her barking in the background since you mentioned...

When does a bid become a bid? She's like, yeah, I know when that is. I know when that is. Right, Carl, your article then. You've mentioned the two victors. I mean, is there a reason that Victor Osherman was the first player that you wrote about? A lot of people in the comments were asking the same question on The Athletic. Because I love him. I love to watch him, right? That's why. Also because I feel Victor Osherman is as close to the ideal player

And again, this is personal opinion. It's close to the ideal striker for the job, both tactically and also in terms of the above shoulders. You've got to have a certain arrogance to be a Manchester United striker. And I think Victor Oshman ticks those boxes. I also make it very clear, and I hope I make it very clear in that copy, that he would probably be ridiculously difficult to acquire.

And he calls it silly season. Let's be really clear. There was a six-day period where the transfer window was closed. And yet I saw many, many, many, many, many people and accounts on social media and on television claiming that certain things were happening. Certain conversations were being had. Oh, that because such and such was going on with Tottenham Hotspur, that affected certain things. And he was going, the window's shut. Nothing can be done. And yet here we are.

I think the Victor Osherman situation is particularly hard to fathom because, one, Di Laurentiis, the Napoli chairman, is a notoriously prickly negotiator. We're talking Daniel Levy plus. Two, Antonio Conte can be a very capricious football coach. And three, Osherman and Osherman's team, I should say, are...

Look, there are no darlings or daisies on social media. If they believe something or want to say something, they'll say it too. So there are three people all at loggerheads with each other, all have had history in the past of waking up one day and having changed their minds or resolving an issue over a heated discussion, shall we say. So...

I've heard and seen loads of people, oh, Osherman's wages are this, oh, the transfer fee is this, oh, this is this, oh, this is this. No one knows. He's a brilliant football player. He's tremendous to watch. Maybe you can start raising your eyebrow about tactics because United don't chuck in loads of crosses and Victor's one, Victor Osherman, I should say, before we get confused. His one great skill is the fact that he just feasts on crosses and

But if Jim Radcliffe turns out to be the person who won the EuroMillions jackpot this morning and then suddenly United have all that extra money, I think Oshima would go a bit higher up in whatever shortlist they're currently looking at. I think we're in the middle of the silly season, Ian. I'm almost reluctant to say anything because of the way that your words get twisted. Please say something. You're on a podcast. Yeah, I know. But I'm just outlining and speaking from my own experience where...

I speak to a lot of different people and there is a certain element of transfer junkies. And I know we make jokes about this. They are only prepared to hear what they want to hear. And it's not the job of a journalist to tell somebody what you want to hear. Your job is to tell somebody what your source is and tell people as close as you can to what the truth is. And I think that Manchester United will sign Kunja from Wolves. All right, you can twist me and quote me on that.

um being a little bit more serious i am told by multiple sources that brian wants to join manchester united that brentford are trying to work up a market for the big b because they want more money for him bring the b to manchester yeah b of the bang b of the bri does one time a massive sculpture outside city's ground which lasted about five minutes called b of the bang it was terrible

I liked it. All right. It's just the fact that it could kill people because they couldn't actually keep the spikes on the actual monument. But anyway. I was told to think more of number 10s than number 9s. The market's still fluid. As Laurie quite rightly said, it depends on outgoings.

So you sell Johnny Evans to Madrid for 82 million, 81 million, more or less in that region. He's gone, Andy. He's gone. Let it go. Real Madrid need centre-backs. Yeah. Johnny would do a good job for Real Madrid. In fact, on Johnny Evans, we had a point of clarification that might excite you, Andy. I don't know. Who knows what floats your boat these days considering how excited you've got about all these transfers.

maps unquestionably this is from Rob Andy keeps going on about Johnny not being given the penalty on the final day of the season well after the pen was given the camera panned to Johnny who can be seen shouting Chris are you going to take it you can't see what's said back to him but it seems as if Ericsson offers it to Johnny and he says no and laughs as much as we would have loved Johnny to take the pen it seems he didn't want it I hope this makes Andy feel better about the situation thank you for that

That's quite interesting. Does it make you feel better? I was trying to stand it up and second source it, but what a selfless act. Absolutely. It's Johnny Evans all over, isn't it? In terms of the sort of silly season and elements of the desperation to bring players in, Laurie, I saw a tweet and I wish I could find it to quote it directly, but it was basically comparing Jokeres' stats and

at the equivalent age that Rasmus Hoyland is now. And basically they were saying in the tweet that Jokres is 27, Hoyland's 22, and five years ago he scored seven goals in Bundesliga 2 on loan at St. Pauli from Brighton. The year after he scored five goals between a handful of League Cup appearances for Brighton and then two Championship loan spells, which weren't particularly successful at Swansea and Coventry. So is there an argument to be made for...

just keeping faith with what United have got and being a little bit patient considering Mbembe looks to be on his way and Kunja's already here I think there is an argument certainly for that because you look at the way that he played last season sorry last last season Rasmus Haaland now that 24-25 is last season season before last in the 23-24 season yes there we go I knew there was a phrase for that so

where he looked, he had Champions League, even Europa League this season. There's been flickers of that. And so footballers' journeys are all different. I mean, look at Jamie Vardy. He was playing non-league football up until the age of 25, 26. And he's gone on to score over 100 goals in the Premier League and win the title with them and be a pest for a decade, basically, at the top level, having been four years older, really, than Hoyland before he even stepped foot in it. So, yeah,

Those arcs are difficult sometimes to predict. I suppose what it needs from Hoyland is improvements in his own game in terms of where to run and that kind of intensity, that aggression, that confidence, which I guess is maybe difficult just to decide that you've suddenly got. And also understanding with his teammates as to where they're going to pass it and when. And that understanding is crucial. I mean, Carl referenced York and Cole earlier and they seem to have a kind of interplay

that they knew where the other was going to run and how they were going to link up. And that's what brought that chemistry from them to the floor. So does Hoyland just need somebody that he can riff off a little bit like that? Um,

I'm not saying that it definitely will work with him because obviously there was times last season where it felt really despondent and maybe United paid a lot of money for a player that hadn't actually scored loads of goals. It was a bit of a hot streak over Atalanta that he'd had before then, but you could sort of see the reasons why they tried to go for him and hope that it could work. They obviously spent too much money on him really for what he'd done to that point and the kind of calibre that he was, but

you're talking about the same kind of money, probably more now for Victor Jokeres, who United weren't interested in when he left Coventry. I think I've mentioned this before on a podcast, but somebody did say to me, United should look at Jokeres at Coventry. He could be the ideal kind of player to develop at the club. But I think United are in a tricky position where how can you go for a player in the Championship and call him a major sign? They've got to have faith. They've got to have...

confidence in themselves to do something like that and absolute belief in their recruitment system so he's obviously gone away had fantastic success with sporting Amrin knows him very well you can see why Amrin would want somebody in that he knows very well but United perhaps have to take a long term view and think that if they can get Hoyle into a position of

scoring 10, 15 goals that's a really good striker that they've got but I know it's easier said than done and also just on Hoyle the book value that he's got I think that's an additional factor in all this they obviously spent 70 odd million at Atalanta so he's still got that kind of fee that they'd need to exceed if they were to sell him to make a profit and they can't necessarily write off somebody like that at this stage because it would then hit the bottom line

Who were the other options you assessed, Kyle? I'm not going to give you all of them. You don't have to give me all of them. You can give me a couple of standout ones. I want people to read the article. So I brought up Samu... Agahawa. Thank you.

Samu, who played at Porto, scored twice against Manchester United in the Europa League League phase last season, gave Matthias Delic twisted blood. I think he's a phenomenal striker. It's quite frankly ridiculous that Atletico Madrid sold him because he ticks so many boxes with Jogo Simeone. He apparently has a release clause of £84 million. Again, you're going to have to move a lot of money around to get him. If you want someone on the cheaper end...

There is a gentleman at Villereal, I'm not going to name him, but he plays up front in a 2. He is currently of interest to Everton, I believe, and he's one that the hesitation is that he plays in Villereal in a 4-4-2. But if you do a little work on the whiteboard and on the training ground across pre-season, he might be able to fit in an Amarillo 3-4-3 position.

And Moise Khan, who I have loved watching ever since he first developed in the Juventus Academy. You might remember him because he was the substitute that was unfortunately substituted in the 2019-20 season for Everton. He's now had a very good goal scoring season for Florentina and he has a release clause that I think is under 50 million. So he is another striker that I think is worth looking at. Although I do have that sort of

Hey mate, you finally got your confidence back and sorted your goal-scoring problems out. Do you want to give it a go at Old Trafford? I think Laurie is totally right about what we're saying about Hoyland. We can look at a number of bits of statistical data, and Hoyland at his best and at his most confident, and Victor Jokeres at his best and at his most confident, the gap there, or the variance there, is not huge. The problem is...

Hoyland for at least the final two or three months of the last Premier League season was not confident. The ball was bouncing off him. He's hitting things off his heel. He's making really naive runs. He's not gambling in the way that a confident striker gets to. I think I've said before, you can tell when a striker is confident because they just start hitting shots earlier. There's less of that, oh, I need two or three touches to get this ball settled. It's done, bang, done. Yeah.

So regardless of what happens, whether he stays or whether he goes, I think every United fan listening to this will want Hoyland to have a good holiday. Just a good two or three weeks off, unplug, read your books, get back in line with whatever you need to do. So be it pre-season and you want to hit the ground running to get a move somewhere else, or pre-season and you want to hit the ground running because you're going to beat Manchester United's running in behind goal scoring option compared to Xerxe, who's going to be the one to link play.

Hoyle needs a good holiday. He needs to have a really, really good pre-season. A lot of these players need to have a really good pre-season. In theory, there are the bodies there and you can sort of understand what Amarin wants. In practice, because this is Man United, there are so many times where you're

Yeah, I'm going to stop talking now. We're all going to stop talking. Don't worry about that. That's the end of Talk of the Devils. We'll see how the striker search develops over the next few weeks. We're going to be here once a week during the off-season, right throughout the summer. So if there's any topics you want us to discuss or there's any questions you want us to answer, get in touch. Devilspod at theathletic.com. But for the moment, thank you for listening. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Carl. And thank you, Laurie. And we'll see you next week. Take care. Bye-bye.

OK, well, that was supposed to be the end of the podcast, but shortly after we finished recording, we heard news of Manchester United's intention to raise ticket prices for next season. The details are still being established at the moment, but Andy and I have jumped back on

to the podcast just for a quick reaction to this. We will speak at more length on this topic, obviously, on future podcasts. And we're just beginning to get some reaction from different sections of the Manchester United support as well. But fundamentally, tickets are being categorised for the very first time at Old Trafford for home matches next season into categories A, B, C and D. The majority of the Premier League games are in Cat B category.

The sort of prime fixtures, if you like, are in category A, of which some of the prices are.

can be as high as 97 pounds now it's important to point out at this point that this will not affect season ticket prices obviously all that was already confirmed earlier on in the year but andy what's your reaction to this so i'm just going through it all now in asking people about ticket prices is like asking how hard you want to be punched in the face no one's going to celebrate paying more to watch their their team play as you said this isn't season ticket holders so this is

This is a minority of people, but it's looking like a significant minority, probably 15,000, 20,000 seats. Categorisation, which you see a lot at other clubs, but it's the first time it's happened at Manchester United. I've touched on it in previous podcasts where I said this is the way it's going and I'm uneasy about it and, you know,

Subjects like dynamic pricing frighten the life out of me. Not that this is happening here at all, but I'm just going through the various statements, including one from most Manchester United supporters trust who describe it as a fresh kick in the teeth for United fans as ticket prices surge by more than 50%.

The spokesman for the trust said, After how last season went, we might have hoped the club would reconsider their plans for this new ticketing model, which will see eye-watering price increases for 20,000 supporters per game who buy tickets on a match-by-match basis. This is a fresh kick in the teeth for United fans. When the club said they were introducing the new model, we urged them to keep the majority of prices at the current levels and only apply to

the highest price category for a small number of the biggest games and reduce prices for lower demand games. Once again, they've failed to consult.

any of the fan representative bodies on the details of the decision. And once again, they're making choices against the interests of the fans and we believe as a club at whole. So that's the first part of their statement. The club have said that they have consulted with Must and the fan advisory board. So I think there needs to be some clarification there. I'm just looking through as it's coming through now to see the category D one. It is developing as we're recording this. It'd be funny if they put City as category D. Yeah.

Sorry, I shouldn't be laughing because this is a serious subject. I wonder what Wolves have done wrong actually to get put in category C. Oh, here we are. Sorry, category C. Okay, I'm just looking through it now. Oh, City are category A.

What a lot of the big football clubs are doing now is looking after the fans who come every week. So there was a small price rise for season tickets for next season. I expected that to be a lot bigger and it ended up coming in at about 5% for most fans. This is obviously a lot more than 5%. And I think the club's view is...

If you're going to come once a season or twice a season or five times a season, you're going to pay a lot more for the privilege. This is what other clubs do. I'm not saying that's right. I think that the Fan Advisory Board must, I've only ever heard them want a better deal for Manchester United fans. Going into that as volunteers, and there's some pretty good brains on there as well, but they're ultimately not the ones who are making the decision.

They've pushed hard for ticket prices to be maintained even lower. I don't think it looks great when Manchester City the other day lowered their ticket prices, but then Manchester United are a far bigger club. Demand is far, far higher. I've got the six Category A opponents here. Here we go. City, Liverpool, Leeds, Arsenal, Newcastle and Chelsea. So,

As a headline, the £97 you would pay for a top-priced Category A, which is about 1% of tickets, is the most that it's ever cost for a general admission ticket for Manchester United. Yeah, by quite some distance as well. Yeah, just got in the club statement now. All junior and senior concessions remain in place.

Categorisation only applies to match-by-match members, which we've already said, not season ticket holders. We've sought to strike a balance between increasing revenues to improve our financial stability and keeping ticket prices accessible. I think people will dispute and disagree this,

with a 97%... £97 ticket, although most will not cost that. Presumably, this is going to be the seats that are near the dugout as well for what people have been protesting about moving. So they will be exec seats. That's a different ballpark altogether. They will be the ones which cost hundreds and thousands. Right, OK. But they would say you get a different product there. You get a meal, you get food, you get whatever, whatever. The...

This is general admission seats being categorised for the first time at Manchester United. And some of the rises are pretty eye-watering. So this doesn't affect, and I must stress this, season ticket holders who are the majority. Here's the thing.

Here we go. Category D. So let's assume United draw a smaller club in the FA Cup at home. We'll go from 32 to 52. That's the range of prices it could be then for those games. Pretty much what it is now. Category C, which is only the two Premier League fixtures, including Wolves. Who's the other one? Sunderland. 37 to 60. Sunderland. Poor Sunderland.

Category B, 57 to 86. And category A, 59 to 97, which is six. Less than 1% of tickets will be the highest adult category A. I mean, fans are not going to welcome this at all. And I totally understand that because it's all right saying if you only come once a season. There are a lot of people who can only come once a season for whatever reason.

I think with ticket prices, I mean, I've banged on this since I've been a kid. Now, I remember the front page of United, we stand fuming because ticket prices have gone up to 15 quid. It depends who's affected by them. For a lot of people, they won't be. For a lot of people, they will be. I remember writing an article for The Athletic two years ago about $200 tickets, Wrexham, Man United under-21s, San Diego pre-season. And I was outraged. And I stand by every word that I wrote. And I got there and nobody cared.

So it's different things to different people. And the club's argument will be, and Barcelona have done this aggressively for years, if you come every week, we're not going to charge you that much. But if you want to come once a season or five times a season, but it's never black and white, Ian, because there will be people who apply for every game to come because they want a season ticket. So this is a problem you've got. Yeah. And they're going to be paying a lot more.

And if that's a family, then that's not fair either. So that is how I'm reading it. How are you reading it? Yeah, similar to be fair. There's a part of the statement that the club have said, which is interesting, I suppose, in terms of offering balance. So it says, the result of the pricing model for this season means that the average cost of a general admission match ticket, so that's season tickets...

and match by match members tickets will be £46.51 and that compares to £41.41 for last season so you know it's a real term increase of about a fiver across the board but obviously that's because the season ticket prices have not increased that much so

So it's not like it's a very, very small proportion of people. Like you said before, it's 20,000 tickets a match. So it's a lot of people who come to matches, a lot of committed Manchester United fans, loyal fans I'm sure who've been coming for years as well, who are going to be heavily impacted by this.

But like we say, we've just received the information and we've just given our best immediate reaction to all the details as they're beginning to be released. There'll be more on the podcast on this. Obviously more on this developing story on The Athletic as well. And if you want to get in touch with us with your reaction, of course, you always can. Devilspod at theathletic.com. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

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