Hojlund double delivers away win in Europe and derby 'hunger'
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Usually these are midnight, but actually with this early kick-off it's just approaching half past nine on Thursday evening, in the UK at least, and we can talk about Manchester United.

Finally winning a match away from home in Europe. 2-1 over Victoria Pilsen thanks to two goals from substitute Rasmus Heuland and a nice way, potentially, to build up to the Manchester derby on Sunday. We'll talk about all the details of that win in Czechia tonight and we'll also, of course, give our take on

on the build-up to the match at the Etihad. But first of all, you can tell it's a win. Karl Anka and Andy Mitten are both sat in hotels, and Andy's got a pint in his hand. Cheers, mate. Here he goes, he's having a good guzzle. Cheers. Is that the Manchester United copyrighted local ale that's been offered out in Pilsen today? Oh, it wasn't offered out. This was a special, special edition Pilsner, done with a...

Gambris Brewery here in Pilsen. Oh, you've been doing your research. Yeah, I like this. It was on the Welcome to the Arena press packet. Yeah. And you couldn't... It wasn't on release. It was a special, like, voucher code because they made 1,212 bottles of it based on, like, a raffle for Pilsen fans. That's where you could get a special...

pint of this beer the beer in Pilsen is very nice I must say obviously this is where the Pilsen comes from they invented it mate they invented it mate and it goes down very smooth it's not too gassy so you can you can drink two without realising it accidentally if you know what I mean well I think Andy you promised eight pints before this podcast didn't you I was talking a good story mate my reality is I got up at 4.30 this morning and I was like

And I'm whacked and I'm going to have one very nice pint of Pilsner Urquell, I think it's called. And then I'm on an early flight to Manchester in the morning. But I'm buzzing because Manchester United have won. It's now six unbeaten in Europe. The road to Bilbao starts here. Six unbeaten, that's a statistic. Also, Manchester United's first European away win, Carl, in 613.

37 days since a 1-0 win at Real Betis in March 2023. That long? Check this out as well. Do you want to get excited because United have won? Why not? Only three managers in Manchester United's history have ever won their first two European games in charge. And we're talking about Sir Matt Busby, Sir Alex Ferguson and Sir Ruben Amorim. Might be a bit early for the night, Hod. That's tremendous. Yeah. I will say at halftime,

In the Doosan Arena, I did not think Man United were going to win. No, I didn't think they were going to entertain. No, no, I did think that was going to end as a 0-0, but hey, turned it around. Yeah, where do we start? Let's start with maybe that first half. It was turgid, wasn't it, Andy? United sluggish, slow. I mean, there was no threat really, and they were probably in control of the game for most of it, at least anyway, but...

Felt like a lot of Ten Hag stuff, that, really, didn't it? Yeah, it was boring. And more than twice, I thought...

Why am I here? This is really, really boring. And I met a Slovakian United fan at half-time and he'd followed the team for years. He was first attracted to Manchester United by Eric Cantona and he's like, what's gone wrong with this club? Poor me, a Pilsen. That's a bit of a deep one, that, mate. But the first half, I think it lacked intensity and it was very disappointing. And I'm with Carl. I couldn't see where a win was coming from. I thought the first 10 minutes of the second half were even worse, actually.

And then the substitutes changed everything. Erasmus got a couple of goals. Bruno, we've just spoken to now in the mix zone, played a couple of lovely balls. So it's a win and it sets up the derby.

better than a defeat would. Am I watching this team thinking, "Hey, Europe beware?" Absolutely not. It's small-time competition, but it's still worth winning. The town itself, the city, I found it really friendly. - Got a wonderful Christmas market here. - Nice Christmas market. Karl told me to get into the cinnamon rolls, which I didn't do.

I met quite a few United fans before the game. It's pretty worrying. Half of them had tickets, half of them didn't have tickets. And you know sometimes people say it's easy following a big club. Well, it isn't because tickets are really, really hard to come by. So I know loads of people who've travelled to the Czech Republic and not even seen the game. And that seems ridiculous, doesn't it? But that is the reality of it. But it was a win. Six now unbeaten in Europe this season. And after that really poor start...

With the draw at 20 and only getting the draw after being ahead in a Porto, I think we'd definitely settle for this. I've just looked at the league table for the Europa League now and we're way ahead.

flying right up it. Fifth at full time. We've dropped to eighth already as we speak here now, to be fair, but that's still above the line, Carl. Still above that line. So on Wednesday in the press conference, Amrin spoke about how important it is that Manchester United finish in the top eight and avoid the playoff round. He said they absolutely do not want to have those extra two games. And you can really feel Amrin is trying to get as much training time where possible.

because there's just so many things he wants to drill into the side. About the first half, he said the team lacked pace. And I think for much of that first half, United were doing everything just very in front of Pilsen. Pilsen were not. Pilsen defendants were content to let him have the ball and not let him spin around. It was a really, really poor first half from Joshua Xerxe. I believe he touched the ball 39 times and lost possession 16 times. And he was doing a lot of...

and passes around the corner without looking up. And I feel as if that's partly a hangover from this time in Italy.

So when things were working really well for him, he was constantly surrounded by runners. So he could do that first time flick and there was someone that was going to latch onto that ball where he's trying to do that here. And unfortunately, the person who is supposed to be getting those runs in that front three is Marcus Rashford. And Rashford is not running with the same explosive pace that he used to. He's also not gambling in the way that he used to as well. So that disconnect really made some of these passes quite sloppy from Joshua. You're going, you have to look up.

He's also doing this thing where it's sort of dribbling, but you're sort of clumsily running into the defender, hoping that the ball will ricochet and then you'll get the second touch afterwards. And it's one of those, why are you trying to run through this defender instead of trying to run around them? I don't know, in the live discussion chat on the Athletic app, quite a few United fans said they'd be surprised if either man came out for the second half. Amund stuck with him.

for the start of the second half but I think what did turn the game around is that Amorim got his substitutions absolutely bang on. Yeah he definitely did and that was an encouraging thing well I thought it was going to be an encouraging thing about United selecting Amorim that when you looked at the matches he had after his announcement that he was coming and still in charge of sporting there was positive changes I mean if Laurie was there now he'd be telling us about that trip to Braga that he had and the changes that that

that Amarim made in that game to turn things around. And Andy, watching a Manchester United manager make tactical switches, even if it's like for like, actually, maybe not so tactical switches...

But looking at specifics that particular players are bringing and using that to win the match, this is more like it, right? I thought almost all the substitutes were an improvement on the players that were replaced. Hoyland significantly so. I thought Mount was better than Xerxe. Anthony had his moments and then down into the last 10 minutes you had Ugarte and Garnaccio who came on. I mean, Hoyland is a striker. Strikers are supposed to score goals when he's getting a couple of goals like that.

it just makes the world so much easier for him. The first one was a pretty easy one, but the second one was absolutely lovely. Once again, he controls the ball with one foot and finishes with another. So we've seen that a couple of times recently. But the substitutions were key because up to that point, Manchester United were really flat.

And Bruno looked a bit frustrated. I saw him at one point looking really frustrated. The goal was a howler when they scored. It was another mistake for Inanna. And I'm not going to hammer him because he's probably been Manchester United's best player this season. But it's not been a good week for him. You could see that happening in slow motion. Don't give it him. Oh, he's just giving it him. I don't think De Ligt was at fault for it. I think De Ligt wasn't ready for it. Yeah. So he...

Onana gets the ball from Martinez I believe we don't have a screen for instant replay no that's right in the arena so please forgive me some of my statistics here are a bit rusty here when he receives the ball you can see him priming for De Ligt but that pass is not on he has to thread it between two defenders and there is another option a bit further to his right hand side and I think De Ligt is almost surprised by the fact that Onana has chosen him to pass for it so De Ligt's first touch is really really sloppy it's

Like Andy said, Arnal has probably been one of the better players for United this season. I'm doing the Manchester United 2024 in review and the first draft, the sentences are ready, I've gone player of the year and I was going, yeah, Andre Arnal, ooh, those are two mistakes after Forrest and Pilsen. So I'm wondering, do I give it to someone else or do I stick with Arnal?

Yeah, it's oh, Nana, not oh, Nana. The problem is with him, and this was something that happened at the start of obviously last season, was as soon as he started making mistakes, it was almost like he couldn't stop. And the concern for me in this game was that after Nottingham Forest, you kind of wanted him just to have a very stable, secure match, an error-free performance where he wasn't really a talking point.

to know that that wasn't going to happen again and instead what we saw in that first half was he came out for a ball and nearly knocked Casemiro out there was a couple of crosses that he seemed to be a little bit questionable on as well and then obviously the error then in the second half for the goal so

I'm a bit worried because you don't want the same thing, the same sort of spiral to happen like happened last season. And I thought it was very pointed to hear Bruno Fernandes speak very positively about Andre after the game. Because I do know as a character, he's extremely hard on himself and he takes time to get past things that other players would shrug off. I think he'll be all right. Maybe it's just a time of the year. It was almost exactly a year ago that that Galatasaray thing happened.

Then, United went out of Europe. Tonight, Onana ran the length of the pitch when Hoyling got the second. Of course he did. You can just, exactly, you're just thinking, you've just got me off the back pages. But this is what good teammates do. They dig the teammates out of holes and it's not something that United have been able to do always. Certainly in Onana's case, I know there was a lot of errors in the Champions League last season but

nobody managed to rescue him out of that and occasionally you do need that yeah Amarin spoke about Onana in a section of quotes that are embargoed so I can't talk about it too much but it was a positive tone and struck a similar chord to what you're saying Ian you talk about the pole axing of Casemiro in the first 10 minutes so that starts because Xerxe loses the ball very very sloppily then Fernandes does a foul probably could have been booked for it

And they have a little chin wag. Then you get the free kick where Onala's punching Casemiro. And you're going, this is uneasy. There were moments at the ground where you could see off the ball if there's a breaking play. I saw De Ligt have a go at Martinez during a bit when United were a goal down. I also saw a little dispute between Rasmus Hoyland and Ahmad towards the end of the game. And this is the...

This is the bit where everything is a bit at daggers before everything settles down. I think this is a bumpy part for Manchester United and the games are...

going to be uneasy but if you can get that positive result at the end of the full-time whistle you go okay don't worry about it we move on to the next bit and a win in what the first since Betis the irony of the hottest city in Europe Seville where Betis play coming here I tell you if Laurie had come here we would not hear the end of it because it was cold I found it very interesting to see how Laurie would have worn a hat

to deal with the Pilton cold. It's negative two over here right now. It's very much hat and glove weather. Negative two? Is that what you say? Why don't you just say minus two? Don't know, mate. Just came out. What would you say, Ian? Minus two, yeah. Where's negative two come from? It makes it sound more dramatic, I have to say. Maybe. I could catch on that. I think a few of the players... It was really cold and a few of the players after the match...

I think De Ligt was the only one who didn't wear... Short sleeves, no gloves. Yeah. De Ligt. Yeah, good lad. Which, you know, if you're doing that in negative two, you're showing that you can do a bit. He's turning negative two into positive two, isn't he? Mentally, by wearing shorts and t-shirts. It's got weird. Let's move it on.

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I was going to try and talk about the positives before we got into Onana. You've mentioned Xerxe as well. We need to talk about Marcus Rashford, I think, as well, which we'll do in a moment. But let's stay on the positives. Rasmus Hoylen. Obviously, we know that there's been lots of changes. I think it's 36 changes to the starting line-up that Amarin has made in his matches so far. It's a lot. But, Carl, it feels like Hoylen is now emerging as...

the number nine as the first choice number nine I'm sure there'll still be rotation but when it comes to the big games when it comes to picking your strongest side it feels like it's his position now doesn't it? It feels like there are a couple of positions that are there but perhaps Amaran isn't starting these players because he wants to make sure they are fresh for the bigger games and I think that was the case today it wasn't

I'm not quite sure yet. I think Hoyland is the nine and probably is more likely to be the nine against Man City. So therefore you've got to make sure you keep him fresh. I think Ahmad is now the leading candidate for the right wing-back position, even though he started as a number 10. What did you think of him as a number 10? It was hard for him. So Ahmad is the best United player at taking someone on the outside and also delivering that final third cross or pass.

Ideally, you want to have someone outside of him that can do some of those crosses so he can play inside and really attack those half spaces. But because he's the best at the moment at this one thing that is very important to Amarin, he has to make the wing-back role his own. I think eventually, with enough signings and changeover and who knows what from the academy, Ahmad might move to number 10. But right now it's going to be wing-back. I think it was also telling that when the substitutions had to come in the second half, Ahmad did have to move to wing-back as well because that's what Amarin wants.

The good thing was when Amorin made the change to move Ahmad to wing back, he stayed there as well. And I think it's that change of you bring on Mason Mount to offer a bit more energy for the front press. That helps Hoyland. You move Xerxe away from the number nine so Rasmus can get the Pilsen defenders to turn around and retreat. And that quick was another change. I think also the introduction of Garnaccio

is another wide threat at wing-back and that helped. And Ugarte, I think Ugarte and Casemiro now are in this neck-and-neck position. And one of these players will probably emerge as the one to play 90 minutes week-in, week-out. And it feels like Ugarte might be just about nudging ahead of Casemiro. Yeah, it's interesting to see this sort of first 11 emerge. I mean, I'll go back to it again. I asked Ammarin,

ahead of the Nottingham Forest game if he knew what his strongest XI was and he believed he did. So I guess we're beginning to see that now as well a little bit more. Hoyland now five goals in five under Amir Andy, five in six in the Europa League ahead of the 8pm kick-offs. He was the top scorer in the competition. But not just him bringing a positive change from the bench, Mason Mount as well could have scored, maybe should have scored the first chance that he had

But again, look bright and potentially beginning to play his way into that

Strongest XI maybe? He did look bright. He could have got another one because I think it was a cross from Bruno about 15 minutes before the end and from where I was it looked like he just couldn't get a touch on it. Imagine if that would have gone in, three goals. But there's so many times we've spoke about Hoyland saying goal scorers need to score. He is now scoring. He is in form. He's very young. He's only going to get better with that experience. And I know as a player,

It was put to me that he likes a scrap, likes his back to the goal. Sometimes it's better to get into positions where you're actually going to score the goals and he did that tonight.

So, for his first goal, exactly. Same as the Forest goal, actually, similar. In the right position, you've got to be in it to win it. You can't be 20 yards from goal. He was there, bang, puts it in, and the mood, everything changes on that goal, and Manchester United got better off the back of that. With Mount, we've not seen anything like as much as we would have liked to when he signed. I think United fans don't really know what to think of him. They've not seen enough of him.

But you're right, when he did come on tonight, he was encouraging. Is he ready to start in the derby? I would be doubtful. But with each week, Amorim gets a clearer idea of his team. Yeah, I just think, Carl, as well, the way that Hoyland took that second goal, we've not seen him...

full of confidence always have we there's been periods where it's felt like it's been a bit of a drag for him but that run of form I was just looking it up actually while Andy was speaking the run of form he had from Boxing Day onwards after he got his first Premier League goal against Aston Villa

And then I try to remember what game it was, but do you remember that touch and smash from the edge of the box? I forget what game it was. People will be shouting at me now. He gets a goal against Luton where Garnaccio has a shot and he just sort of chested it in as well. Tottenham or... Tottenham, yes. He has the goal against Tottenham. When he...

There are moments where Hoyland very clearly feels confident and he just takes too few or less touches. Yeah. And I think we're approaching that stage now. He seems stronger as well when he's full of confidence. He does. He does. That second goal against, you know, 87th minute, great set piece routine. He reminded me a bit of Lukaku. Yeah. Lukaku used to do that to defenders a lot. And I've been on this podcast constantly complaining about Hoyland having his back against defenders, having a scrap instead of running the channels. But...

If he's willing to learn these bits and can add that facet to his game in certain areas, he can get an extra two to three goals a season. I think the other thing is, like Andy said, he's got to be in it to win it. He's got to work on that movement in and around the penalty area sometimes. But also that has to be improved by his teammates, which is why Amarin was asked about what looked to be a disagreement between Ahmad and Hoyle in that full time. I love his tiff.

He described it like a family, a family disagreement. And he said that they're fighting because they care. So he wasn't too bothered about it. So this is also a thing. When Hoyland feels like he's in the goals, he does start chirping up at his teammates for not playing the passes as well. Yeah, somebody scored tonight, hadn't they? Yeah, I labelled the collection of counterattacks the most frustrating injury time counterattacks ever trademarked because...

What were they doing? In fact, Anthony, maybe we should give him his flowers a little bit. He certainly helped up the tempo off the bench. And when he came on with Mason Mount, it was only 90 seconds between them coming on the pitch and then Hoyland equalising. But yeah, Carl, you're going to bite on me on this. So just let me explain and then I'll let you bite.

But yeah, Anthony's sort of weak effort when they were three on one. That was the first counter-attack. Then Ahmad ran into traffic, which I think maybe caused the tiff with Hoylan when he was on for a hat-trick. And Hoylan himself miscontrolled as well. Just keep the ball, lads, please. Yeah, yeah, especially when... I think these are the... Amrini uses the word details. He says he needs to get this idea across to the team and also the way you do it is by paying attention to a lot of details, you know.

fundamentals, keep it simple, whatnot. And I think the particular counterattack that annoyed me was the one where Garnaccio has Anthony on outside of him on his left and he has a mad on the right. And we know what Anthony wants to do when he has the ball. He has not got a right foot. He's going to try and get that on his left foot. But the most obvious shot to get off from where Anthony stood is the right foot curler into the far post. And he can't do it. So don't give him the ball. Give it to the very, very talented striker

in form forward to your right-hand side. So it will come eventually. I don't know when. And I think this is also going to be a constant thing in these press conferences is that I think we're all getting to a place where we understand that this will eventually come under Amaran. We're not quite sure when and we're also not quite sure with which players in which positions.

Yeah, there's definitely an element of that question. Marcus Rashford's part of that question, Andy, as well. He looked withdrawn at times tonight. He was withdrawn on 55 minutes, maybe lucky to escape a red card for two bookings as well, to be honest. I mean, he got the goal in the first match against Ipswich after, what it was, 90 seconds, two goals against Everton as well, but...

Is it fair to say he doesn't look exactly rejuvenated by Amroome coming in, does he? No, he doesn't. He blasted a shot over after about 20 minutes. I think a mad teed him up and...

Again, you've probably seen it much clearer on TV. Ahmad's ball out towards the left did look a little bit heavy. It bobbles. Okay. But Marcus's reaction was also quite telling. He looked like, oh, no. I don't know whether that was giving me a break or whether it was him being disappointed with himself because he didn't have a good game and I don't think anyone complained when he was taken off. You know, before...

Manchester derby on Sunday and I know we'll talk more about that but I spoke to Oli Gunnar Solskjaer the other day for a piece which will be on The Athletic probably be out over the weekend and he just said you need a threat and I had a threat with Marcus to play against someone like Manchester City and we've just not seen that threat often enough from him and I think

There were good little patches with Manchester United. I've liked quite a lot the football that Amarillo's team have played, but it still does feel fragile.

We saw a very poor first half tonight. Then the second half, you're watching the counter-attacks. It was very open. It was quite exciting. You could see Ammarin on the sideline going, calm down, calm down. We're 2-1 up. Let's just see the game out. But no, no, no. Garnaccio and Anthony just blasted away forward. Marcus hasn't had a good couple of weeks yet.

I don't have any magical answers there. I've seen him go to City away and score the only goal and bang, everyone absolutely loves Marcus Rashford. I'd love him to do the same on Sunday, but...

his goal tally isn't that bad this season but we're not looking at a player thinking this is a man justifying his huge wage or in the best form that we've seen. No and the rumours about leaving and sort of people being interested I opened social media at one point this week it was awash with

different stories from different sources about him being available for this and him being available for that. I mean, none of this feels very positive, Carl. I don't know. Maybe this is naturally what happens when a player with the profile of Marcus isn't performing. But yeah, it feels like it's beginning to get a little bit messy again, maybe. The relationship between the United fan base and Marcus is not what it was in 2020. It's not what it was when...

Marcus is helping United beat City 2-0 before lockdown. I mean, it's not even what it was in the last derby at the Etihad where Marcus scores after however many minutes. And also at this point in time, can Marcus do that sort of goal again next week? I'm not sure. Well, we didn't know if we could do it then even and he just produced it out of nothing. It was the most remarkable strike of a ball I've seen in a while, to be fair. And I think that's the difficult part is

He's been used a little bit as a number nine on the Ironman. He's been used a little bit as a number 10 and the combinations in that front three is constantly changing and whatnot. And he hasn't quite found a place or a niche in the same way that Ahmad has at right wing back or Masraoui has, or indeed as Hoyland is right now. And we talk about,

As Andy says, when you're on this sort of wage, it should be very, very obvious what your position is and it should be very, very obvious what you offer Amarin and this Manchester United team. We know Marcus is very dangerous when he is up against teams that allow space when you run in behind and Bruno Fernandes is threading in those through balls. That hasn't been happening for a bit. So what do you do next? I'm looking at Manchester City. I'm looking at a defender like Kyle Walker, a defender that Marcus has historically not had much joy out of

It's one of those things where some United fans are going, oh God, I'm really worried about the derby. It's reverse momentum. City aren't very good, but they'll get us. I'm also going, boys, Man United as a whole, if there's ever going to be a weekend where Marcus is going to break his car walker hoodoo, it will be this Sunday. Will he do that from the starting lineup or off the bench? I don't know. Will he do it? That is up to him as well, but...

It is on in a way that I hope everyone at United should recognise. OK, don't like the blue touch paper for the derby just yet. We're going to do that in a moment. Let's just round off this section on the Europa League. Let's have a live update where we are. Have the full times come in from the eight o'clock? Yep, they're all full time. Right, Manchester United officially 7th.

in the Europa League, officially in the top eight with two games remaining. The first one coming up in six weeks' time. Rangers at home who managed to get a draw against Tottenham, dominated for long periods, I'm told. Eventually Tottenham got a goal back

to make it 1-1. And in fact, just looking at the table, United are 7th, Rangers are 8th, and the other team United face, which is the new version of Stade Bucharest, FCSB, are 10th. It's a bit of a scrap. Yeah. It's a bit of a scrap. Good. I think the standout Europa League teams, to my mind, are Lazio, far unbeaten. They are top on goal difference. Bilbao beat Fenerbahce on Wednesday. Eintracht Frankfurt have been kind of fun, but they drew.

against Victoria Pilsen. So United have... It's been a really weird European campaign, hasn't it? Yeah, but this league... It's all new, isn't it? This league thing makes it a bit weird, yeah. Because we're not going to away games. Rangers' new CEO is Patrick Stewart, who listens to this podcast. He used to be the main man at Manchester United. Evening, Patrick. Patrick, if you're listening, you're going to know who you are. Make sure you preserve that wonderful main stand at Ibrox. You say the new Stauber-Caressa...

Let me just say how sad it was to hear that their legendary goalkeeper, Dukadam, passed away this week. I saw him in the week before lockdown. He invited me round to his house. He saved four penalties in the 1986 European Cup final. I realise this isn't a Stour podcast, but the significance of that and being a team from Eastern Europe, which doesn't happen anymore at all, to win the European Cup was huge at the time. So,

Rest in peace. It's a weird European campaign because it's all new, isn't it? This format of like, I go to places and think, Bodo Glimp, wouldn't it have been great to go there? And I spoke to a Victoria fan tonight. So we wish that it could be the other way and we could come to Old Trafford. So you're missing out on that. But that group looks a lot, lot better than it did a few weeks ago. How are the other, how are City doing in Europe?

We'll come on to that, Andy. I'm just scrolling down the table just to see where they are in the Champions League phase. I'll let you know in a moment. But yeah, United in a good place. A reminder, if they finish in the top eight of that Europa League table, it means they go straight into the last 16 of the competition and don't need...

a playoff in February to reach the knockout phase of the competition. So it means there won't be two extra fixtures on what's already a pretty packed calendar. And like Carl said before, Ruben Amerim has really underlined the importance of that. So yeah, things looking better.

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OK, let's do it. It's the showdown on Sunday, 4.30pm local time. Manchester City versus Manchester United. The 195th Manchester derby in all competitions. And Karl Anka, are Manchester United favourites? No, but you can hear the pauses in my voice. I don't know.

Aaron has spoken about this these quotes will be available the tone was in the middle I can say the tone was in the middle he didn't seem like he wanted to get carried away but also was very much like well yeah it's a game of football it might not be the game of football that we I should stop talking maybe maybe I'm gonna look

As a football journalist, you're not supposed to put too much of your emotional investment into any one game of football. But you're saying there's a chance. I spent a long time trying to disconnect. So if Manchester United don't get a positive result, it doesn't ruin my weekend. However, I am looking at this City team and, boys, we have to. I'm using we. I don't want to put too much pressure on them. But if there's ever a goal, please, I need you to go to the Etihad stadium.

And beat them up. Solskjaer's team won it three times on the trot, didn't it? I don't know. How on earth? We've like... And he said this, an average of 35% possession. There was a flag in the United end tonight. It was just a number. Try and work this one out. It was in three lines. The number said the following. 115-3007-192. I'll repeat that to you. 115-3007-192. And do...

So, this flag was flying above the United and I was laughing my socks off. I did need clarification on the last bit. You're not going to get it, so I'll explain, right? 1-1-5 is obvious. That's the charge at a level that Manchester City... 3,007 is the crowd that City had for a game against Mansfield Town. Wow. And... But here's the funniest bit, because...

I know in the past people have taken 3007 flags into City's ground. The 192 bit. 192 is the number of the bus from Stockport, where all the City fans live. Oh, that's good. To Manchester. That's fantastic. I love the fact that someone has done this flag and taken it all the way to the Czech Republic and just unfurled it. And I've got a picture of it.

There, you can see it. Oh, that's good. Yeah. That's quality. I love how simple it is. Basically, Andy's showing us a picture on the call and it's just a white flag with black digits on it quite clearly displaying the numbers that Andy just said. That sort of...

Pettiness. Pettiness is what I'm here for. How would you explain? Say you're doing that in your kitchen, right? And say like your partner comes in and says, what are you doing? And it's like, well, what it is, right? You see, you're just going to look ridiculous. But I just know that people will be listening to this laughing their socks off. And if that comes out, ideally after a victory. I said to Solskjaer the other day, how did it feel when you got 3,000 away fans singing Ollie's Out The Wheel? Tell me how good does it feel?

Go on then, tell me. He went, absolutely wonderful. That's how it feels. I know. Fantastic. I mean, that game, well, in fact, that series of games are some remarkable stuff. I mean, the 3-2 win that United had with Van Persie's free kick in the last minute, I think that's 12 years ago this week, if that's a decent omen. But here's some more recent numbers, maybe more relevant for the weekend. One win in 10 games for Manchester City.

Seven defeats during those 10 matches after the 2-0 defeat to Juventus on Wednesday evening. I found them. It leaves them 22nd in the Champions League table.

And this, I think, is maybe the most remarkable. 23 goals they've conceded in the 10 matches across Europe's major leagues since this run began for City at the end of October. Only a team, I think in Germany, called Heidenheim have conceded more goals than them. Their defence has been so poor. The one thing that counters my excitement, enthusiasm, whatever you want to call it, Carl, ahead of the weekend is that during this run,

It's only one defeat at the Etihad. It was that 4-0 defeat to Tottenham. And that's actually the only defeat City have had at the Etihad Stadium in 55 matches. The disasters have come on the road, basically. Not at home. But to flip that, the disasters are obvious and repeated. They have been playing with a case of...

The bad United's where it's just chaos ball in midfield. So obviously Pep Guardiola likes to have a small squad. When you put all those injuries in, especially in central midfield, they are very porous and they're not that precise in their passing up top. So if they lose the ball, because they tend to overcommit, it is only...

Two or three passes to get in behind. And also, like I've said before, Kyle Walker is not the player he was two or three seasons ago. The recovery pace that was so important and their special emergency luck against that is not there anymore. It's quite a weird one in that the best way to play against this Manchester City team is probably the way that Amron is trying to get Manchester United to move away from. So this sort of 22% possession, hunker down, Bruno Fernandes hero ball,

is something that you don't want Manchester United to do too much on the Amaranth. And yet, that's probably the most obvious way to get some profit here. I'm so fascinated by this game. Boys, it's on. It's so on. I'm worried, lads. I'm worried by your confidence, honestly. I'm not confident. I'm not confident. I'm worried by your confident tone, the underlying tone of it. They're still favourites. I'm just presenting facts. I know you are. I'm just presenting facts. They're statistics. You can't argue against what.

I just laid out. That's just what's happened lately. I was a lot more confident about this before the first half in the Czech Republic. At half-time, I was going, maybe I should just tone this down a bit. Well, I think if United had beaten Nottingham Forest last weekend, I think we would be feeling confident. I think that result in particular has probably tempered the excitement and the confidence a little bit. The one team Manchester City beat in their 10 is the team that beat Manchester United 3-2, so...

I didn't enjoy the cup final last year and only after the result, once the final whistle had gone, I just get too tense because it just feels, you're so invested in it, there's so much at stake with it. I'm just scratching my head now even. You are. Thinking about it. You're doing a Guardiola. Going there. I know. Scratching yourself. I know.

I'm absolutely stunned that they've fallen apart. I just couldn't see it. And I'm not watching them every week. I have watched them quite a bit through this. And I've been at the games as well. And I've interviewed the players. I mean, they've been very touchy post-game, the players. You can tell they're hurting by it. And it reminds me a lot of speaking to Manchester United players in recent times, to be honest, where they're sort of searching for answers themselves. You know, and Gundogan, probably the

probably the most measured player there in interviews was like, you're fighting against the urge to point fingers at each other. You know that you're responsible as much as they are. And you're just trying to find a way through it. You need a win and then you need another win and you need to try and just put a run of form together. But the struggling... And the thing about them, Andy, is that

When United have had issues over time, and I guess they're still suffering with this a little bit, there's question marks all over the pitch. Who's going to play? Who's going to play where? The certainties are gone. For City, there's a question mark over the goalkeeper. Ortega's started, I think, the last three Premier League games. Ederson was brought back in for the Juventus game.

was then at fault for one of the goals, probably should have kept it out. In midfield, normally you've got Rodri, he's not there. Kovacic has been injured as well. He should be back for the weekend. He was on the bench against Juventus last

But then you've had Bernardo Silva and Ilkay Gundogan filling in there. Direct runners through the middle of midfield, they've really struggled with. Defence, there's no Rico Lewis. He's suspended, although he's played in midfield a bit as well. But then Manuel Akanji, Nathan Aki are out of the game, it sounds like. John Stones, maybe too. So this is the thing for them from their perspective. There are lots of question marks about who's even going to be on the pitch for them. Yeah.

So United should feel confident, shouldn't they, Andy? Oh, it's a horrible cliche, this, but it is a derby. I've gone to Main Road watching an imperious Manchester United team and seen City come from nowhere and beat United 3-1. They've still got eight more points than United this season. You know, we might feel confident, but Manchester United are 13th in the table. This is also unprecedented. Mm-hmm.

I would expect them to have the absolute majority of possession. That's the way that they play. I do know how important Rodri is to them. I didn't realise just quite how important he was. They've still got the Leeds top scorer by an absolute mile.

He says that, just checking his stats to see that it's not by a mile. Just to see that he's got exactly the same number of goals as Mohamed Salah. Who's Salah? Who does he play for? And then Cole Palmer, good little Manchester United fan from Wythenshawe in there. Not sure who he plays for. I just can't be reasonable thinking about the derby because I've been to that many where it just...

they will be clear favourites. They're at home. The pressure is on them. The onus is on them to attack, to come out. That's another thing. I think the pressure is on City. United want to win, clearly, and they want to go there and get a result and try and build some sense of momentum, get up the table, all that sort of stuff. But it is City who are under pressure as well, I would say, of the two sides. They're under pressure. And like you said earlier, I've not seen City players react to pressure like this before. They...

They seem rattled. And I've had more than one United fan recently tell me, oh, ex-player at City, they would not have been able to hack it if they were a United player having to deal with... If United are in this form, they wouldn't be able to hack it. Which maybe confident isn't the word, but there is a palpable hunger for a result on Sunday. When I'm talking to United fans up and down the place, it's not we're going to win, but it's a... I'd love it. I'd love to...

put another pile of misery onto City. And I think that's quite hard to get swept along with. I know Amarant will keep things cool and reserved because obviously this is his very first ever derby. But also, if you're Amarant and you are, you know, you've beaten Man City 4-1 already this season with a team that, let's be fair, has an athletic and technical ability that is beyond this Manchester United team right now. But I'm sure you've got some idea as to how to get a similar positive result from

Okay, not as good players, but it just feels on in a way that other derbies haven't felt on in a while. And I think this is unusual. And I think that's why everything's bubbling around the Northern Quarter and Ancoats and everything. Yeah, and the other thing about... Stockport.

Yeah. And coach has definitely read the songs that prove it. But yeah, the stat that you mentioned before, Andy, about the possession that Manchester United had under Solskjaer at the Etihad. Well, that 4-1 victory for Sporting came with possession of 27%. So,

again if they need to do it I'm sure this United team can do it just to finish on before we sort of get people too carried away what about United's team we're saying this question mark I'm saying this question marks maybe over City's side who's going to play I mean Kobi Meynou and Lenny Oro were unused subs

in Czechia tonight so does that mean that they come in and start I mean Rashford and Xerxe didn't impress so does that mean that Hoyland and Garnaccio starts does Mason Mount start does Bruno Fernandes start deep in midfield does Agate come back in so what do we think so two of the best players in recent derbies I'm going to do a terrible Solskjaer impression here Scotti and Anto obviously that's Martial oh yeah

Played a system perfectly, didn't he? Away at City. And that was a sort of 4-2-2-2 system. In answer to your question, I don't know. Go on, Carl. Who do you think is going to start? I think Jorah, being an unused sub, is keeping him fresh. And I think he might start. Instead of who? I think Masraoui. Masraoui's starting, isn't he? So if we give Jorah right centre-back, Masraoui can push up.

and play one of the wing-back positions. I think Mount may have nudged ahead and taken one of those 10 positions. So perhaps it could be Mount and Bruno behind Hoyland. And then you have, I mean, there's even the possibility of Ugarte and Casemiro in central midfield to give it some stodge.

As I like to use every time we bolster up our midfields, because I nicked that from you. So yeah, if you clog up that midfield with two scrappers, I think Ugarte definitely starts. And it'll be Ugarte and who else in central midfield. And if Casemiro can offer something, that's there. But also... No Mainu? Mainu's an interesting one. And also, I think what's becoming interesting now, not just about the starting lamps on the Ameren, but also how he uses that bench. Because we know...

He can make a substitution at halftime or 55 minutes and Mane can be a second half runner because we know he's a good press resistant runner and they're up against a City team right now that doesn't like runners. So I think Mane off the bench is an option. As, I mean, Garnaccio off the bench against Tyrone Legs, we know how good that is. So just because I didn't name Garnaccio in the starting line-up doesn't mean he's not going to have a

Probably very important role to play on Sunday. I'm not confident. I'm just hungry. Yeah, tricky one, isn't it? I'm just tired, mate. It's been a long, long day. I've got a flight to Manchester in about seven hours. You need the warmth of Northern England after coming here. Cannot wait just to get there. Manchester in December. Like them Bodo Glimp fans who came for a bit of sunshine. Manchester, winter break destination for the weekend. Make the weekend with...

a win for the Reds. Yeah, what a weekend. Pilton have got one game left of the 2024 at home this weekend and then they're off to south of Spain for some winter training. It was cold up here. Blimey. Yeah, you can see why they're doing that, can't you? But Andy, you're always welcome back in the bosom of Manchester, especially this time of year. And Manchester City against Manchester United is quite a spectacle this weekend. You can tell we're looking forward to it. Let's not get too carried away just yet.

But for the moment, Andy, thank you. Kyle, thank you. Safe travels. And thanks for listening. We'll speak to you after Sunday. Thanks for listening. Bye-bye. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

Shut up, David.

The time may be out of the playoffs, but I'm super excited to see the 12 best teams in the nation play. All the banter, insights, and more on Until Saturday. Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.