Inside Manchester United's Academy
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. This is Talk The Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. And if this sounds a little bit different than usual, that's because we are sat in the Manchester United training ground. We've been given special access by the club to speak to some of the key figures who are developing young players

in the Manchester United Academy as we build up to the under-18s being in FA Youth Cup semi-final action against Aston Villa on Monday. Before we do that, though, we've got an exciting announcement of our own, actually, because fresh from a fun night out in London's West End last week, we are delighted to announce that Talk The Devils...

It's hitting the road once again with a brand new series of live shows in the autumn. Tickets are going to go on sale on Monday, but we're going to be going to Cork for the very first time. We'll be in Belfast and Dublin and Manchester and London. It's quite the tour, actually. 12th of October, it all begins here.

in Limelight, Belfast the day after at Vicar Street in Dublin, then at the Opera House in Cork for the very first time. We had a lot of people requesting us to go there, so we're going to do that. And then we've got Manchester and London at New Century and the Soho Theatre in Walthamstow. They are the 10th

and 11th of November. Don't worry, we'll have all the details for you on Monday. The tickets go on sale at 11am, that's Monday, March the 31st. If you're an Athletic subscriber following Manchester United, you'll get an email with all the details about this. We'll also add a link to tickets in the show notes for this episode once they're available on Monday. And keep an eye out as well on social media. We'll have all the links, all the details on our individual accounts.

Okay, Andy is with us. Laurie is sat alongside me here at the training ground. Let's get into the interviews then. It's been brilliant to get this access from the club. It's been a great day sat here speaking to some very important people here at Manchester United. A little bit later on, we'll hear from the Academy Director, Nick Cox, one of the key coaches in the Academy, Colin Little. But first up, here is the head coach for the under-18s, Adam Lawrence.

Right, well, we're sat in the Jimmy Murphy Centre at Manchester United's Carrington Training Complex. This place was named after, of course, Sir Matt Busby's legendary assistant manager who led the club after the Munich air disaster. We're talking to one of the current coaches here at Manchester United, Adam Lawrence, who's the under-18s head coach. Adam, thank you for talking to us. No, thank you. Great to speak.

We've established you're a long-time listener as well. Yes. Maybe after this, you never know. Just first of all, just to give a foundation to people listening along, how would you describe your role here? Yeah, so naturally as the under-18 coach, you predominantly work with the under-17 and under-18 age group, so...

it's quite a big change for the players in terms of going through the schoolboy years and then going into a full-time environment really. So they go up to 16s in terms of being at school, training in the evenings and playing on the weekends to then a programme which is, I guess, is flipped. So of course there's an education element to it, but then the boys are coming in full-time. So similar situation,

Things are sort of covered in terms of the programme, but naturally where the boys are full-time, you can go into a lot more detail and be more individual and more specific. I guess a scholarship in its most simplest terms is the boys are basically preparing to become professional and full-time players. So across the two years, they'll experience plenty of highs and plenty of lows and challenges along the way.

But essentially we're trying to maximise their development so that they can play at the highest level possible by the time they finish their scholarship.

And obviously it's been a pretty successful couple of years for the under-18s with you in charge as well. What's that been down to, do you think, in terms of the group of players that you've got? The style of football, I think, has attracted a lot of fans as well. But obviously you're on the FA Youth Cup run again here. What's that down to, do you think? Yeah, listen, it's been an amazing couple of years. Obviously, we've got a bit to go just in terms of this season and a chunk of the season still left. But I have to say in terms of myself, Colin, Kevin Wolfe, the goalkeeper, coach and Curtis,

in the analysis team, it's been an amazing period. I think when we look back at it in 10, 15 years time and we look back at the couple of years that we've had, obviously we hope there's many more, but it has been a really special period. I think the nicest thing about it that we've had is I think I personally had the benefit of working with the players also at 15s and 16s.

A lot of them would be sick of me by now, but I've probably had a sort of like a four-year journey with a lot of these players as well. So I think that helped me maybe help the players in terms of understanding what they were coming into when they were coming into full-time environment as well. What the players did very early on at the start of last season is they really bought into the programme and what we were trying to do with them. So we got across some real big messages in terms of what the programme was going to look like, how we were going to attack the programme.

individually and as a group. And I have to say, listen, it's not always been perfect, but in terms of the boys, the way they've been, how they've conducted themselves throughout the programme, the journey, they've been really good. So, of course, naturally, the recruitment of players and the players that you have in the building and their ability is a big thing. And then it's our job to obviously hone that in terms of continuing to develop their strengths and the things that they're good at.

and trying to put a programme in place that's going to help them take their game to the next level. So naturally people will think about, you know, the technical and the tactical things, but we do a lot of work around sort of like the athletic development and the psychology side of the game as well. So it's a large group of people that are impacting and supporting the players over a significant period of time.

about a lot more than just playing football these days, isn't it? It's getting these lads ready for first-team football and everything that comes with it. You mentioned Colin. We've got Colin Little on the podcast a little bit later on. Yeah, you'll have plenty of fun with Colin, that's for sure. And listen, he's just a fantastic man. He's a fantastic man.

and a real top coach, you know, just in terms of his experience. And I think as well, being at the club for so long and working with, you know, the players that he's worked with, he's great just in terms of when you're looking at talent ID and the level that players need to be at, you know, he's a real good, he's got a good eye and a good understanding of that as well. So the other thing, you know, is he makes people laugh and, you know,

you know, the humour that he brings and he keeps it, you know, fun and engaging, but at the same time maintaining that, you know, that high level and the standard that we want to hit. If I'm honest, there's not been a single day since I started working with him where it's been, you know, tough or hard work and stuff. So he's a brilliant man and a brilliant coach. I've seen you guys on the sidelines of the FAU Cup so far and lots of conversations and making change and things. It looks like you've got a really good relationship. I just wondered,

When you said earlier about the big messages for this season, what were those kind of messages and how much can you put your own stamp as a coach on this group and how much is it a club-led decision about the kind of players that you pick and the style? Because obviously, ultimately, you'd ideally like them to play in the first team at some point. I think the biggest messages to the players are...

Across the season there's going to be a lot of games across 17s, 18s, 21s, first team training experiences, maybe some first team involvement. But we really want the players to be focused around their individual development and their programme. So not to think essentially we're playing in a team sport and we want them to play within our first team as part of a group.

but we want them to be more fixated around their development as opposed to what game am I playing in, which age group am I playing with. So the better the players can self-reflect and think around their development in that way, in our experience, the more the greater improvement in their individual game.

And the more individuals are thinking like that, the group will naturally get better anyhow. So I think that was the nice thing about last season and the players that shared that season with us. And then coming into this year, we could obviously preach some of that stuff,

But having the success that we did last year, not just in terms of trophies, but just in terms of the group and the level of football and development of the players, it was an easier sell. When I spoke to you last year, Adam, you said that you know every player is not going to end up in the first team, but you have to get them as close as possible. But it's also very complex to develop elite talent in the modern day. You're key to their relationship and to their career. How would you describe...

your relationship with your players? Yeah, I would hope that the players would see that we genuinely care for them. Our club at this level, I think the players are allowed to dream. So they're under 18s, they're in a full-time environment.

at one of, if not the biggest club in the world. But it's very tough and very hard what they're trying to aspire to do. So, you know, there's two sides for us. We definitely can't dampen anyone's dreams because what they're actually doing is achievable. But we've also got to be open and honest in terms of how tough it is. You know, so I think we were definitely not perfect at it, but we definitely try and get that balance.

you know, between pushing and driving the players and then obviously supporting them at those times as well. They're still 16, 17 year old boys, so

You have to think back to when you were their age and what you were going through in your life and stuff. And obviously on top of the football side, they're still developing into young men. They've got some stuff going on off the pitch that might be impacting their lives or their football. And our job is to show a genuine care towards that, you know. So we're definitely not like, as long as the football is going right, then everything's OK and nothing else matters, you know, for us.

the person first, the individual, and then of course, you know, the football. We want our programme to be aspirational and we want the players to believe and work hard to try and play at the highest levels of the game, you know. So naturally, you know, we can't get...

every player into that situation, but the opportunity is there for them to develop and improve to, I guess, the level that their talent allows. But what we can control is how you come in every day, how you conduct yourself, how you push and drive yourself to become better, maximising your time in the programme. So, yeah, you know, our thoughts and our, I guess, our own expectation

has got to be high because of the club that we're at and obviously the level that the players are aspiring to play at. Adam, how long have you been at Manchester United? Because I can tell by your accent that you didn't grow up around here. Yes, I've been here, I think, just four and a half years now. So, yeah, originally came in as an under-16 coach. So Travis was overseeing the youth development phase at that time. And then when Travis moved into the 18s role,

I then oversaw the youth development phase and then I basically followed Travis up the academy really. So yeah, then naturally when Travis moved into the 21s role, there was an opportunity to move into the 18s one. So it's been a nice journey just in terms of probably two, two and a half years at the youth development age groups and then obviously the second season with the 18s. But yeah,

To be honest, in terms of the way that we work here, I was still working with the 18s even when I was working as a 16s coach. So the way that Nick, Travis want to work and very much the way I think is, of course, I'm the under-18s coach and we all have to have titles and more of a significant impact on certain groups.

But as a coach, it's really important to know what's coming up from underneath, what's going on above, just so you understand where the players are coming from and then obviously what they need to go into next. So, yeah, we try to obviously have accountability and clarity in our roles.

but to be flexible and work across different age groups as well, which I think definitely benefits yourself as a coach. How are you finding Manchester to London, Adam? I mean, I can tell straight away from your accent, but you told me last time your kids are growing up here. Are they growing up as little mangs? Well, when you're from central London...

You think that London is just England basically and nothing else goes on anywhere else. My knowledge of Manchester was fairly limited to be honest before moving up. But naturally when this club and that type of role becomes available, I think it's known anyway in terms of the worldwide pool of Man United but also in London, the

the amount of Man United fans growing up and the popularity of the club and stuff was obviously massive for me. So the opportunity to come up and I think for us as a family, we had James already with us when we moved up, Olivia since, who's just turned two.

So I guess in terms of our story as a family and, you know, obviously having Olivia born up here as well is a nice special moment for us as well. So, yeah. James and Olivia United fans now then? Yeah, I still...

I think they're definitely that way, yeah. Olivia's a little bit too young just yet. She can brainwash us. But James, he's suddenly gone from not really being interested in football all to being mad into football. So, yeah, he's fully invested, definitely.

Fantastic. Let's talk to you about the game on Monday then. It's a huge occasion, any FA Youth Cup tie for the club, but certainly a Sebi final against Aston Villa, considering the club's pedigree in this competition as well. And you've had a fantastic run to this stage as well, beating Arsenal, beating Chelsea, headline victories along the way. How are you all building up to the game on Monday? Everybody's really excited about it.

Naturally, the run that we've had this year and the games that you've mentioned, it's been fantastic experiences for the boys. And it's been nice to see the lads go through that journey. We obviously play in a different league to Aston Villa, but we played against them. We played in a friendly last year and we know enough about the group and the players to know that it's going to be a real good and a real tough game. So, you know, I guess what has set us up well is...

The games that we've had, some of the scorelines have been dominant, but we've had some tight games and some tough situations that we've had to get through. And I think and I hope that will hold us in good stead, you know, in terms of Monday night. So it's been funny the last few days where it's been the international break. We've obviously got a lot of players that have been away.

So, you know, there's sort of been, I guess, quiet excitement and energy for the players. But I think once those players return Thursday, Friday, we'll start to get a real feel for it. And you'll be able to sense it from the group and stuff. But, you know, definitely amazing opportunity to look forward to. It might be the first team manager only getting your players back Thursday, Friday from internationals, isn't it?

I was down at the Emirates for that game and a fantastic occasion, really enjoyable to watch actually. And you were right in front of us for the extra time and the team talk that you gave in reference where you've got all the players around you. It looked very sort of captivating. I know they've released footage from it since. I've got a photo actually. I don't know if you've seen this one. This is what I took at the time. But your coaching instructions seemed to be very clear and to the point when I've overheard them from the stands.

Is that something you're very conscious of in terms of how to get your message to these kids? Because they are, you know, I know some of them perhaps might be now adults, but, you know, the young boys really and sort of being able to actually tell them exactly what you want in a clear fashion is even more important at academy level than maybe even at first team level. Yeah, I think the way we try to work just around the whole programme is to have maybe like two or three clear things that you want to get across to the group and you want to focus on.

And obviously the players will have some interaction and some involvement in that as well. So I think sometimes as a coach, maybe when you first start coaching and working with players, and I'm sure I'm still guilty of it now, but you can be guilty of trying to get too much information across to the players and end up spending too long talking or sort of jumping across different things in terms of your content. So the way we try and work is two or three things that we think are real important

important to the game or the situation or the training session and then just have you know detail around that. Football at the heart of it is about passion, it's about emotion, the love of what you do and when you're in their moments and you know you're obviously doing something that you care about and you want the boys to do well it's not always easy to think you know with a clear head but I guess with experience and you try and work in a way that you feel is going to help the players

And that will look different at different times, but that's always got to be your primary focus. Yeah, that is a moment of raw emotion, isn't it really? Pitch side, extra time in the FA Youth Cup at the Emirates. It was fascinating to hear a little snippet of your team talk, which the club released. I'll talk to you in a moment about some of the individuals that you've been working with, because it is a group that a lot of people are very, very excited about. And there's a lot of players who have made their mark in the first team already,

How exactly does that work? Would you be able to give us an insight into how Ruben Amorim might be able to identify players from your group that will train with the first team on the pitches behind us and make their way into first team squads on match days as well? How exactly is that process from your perspective? Yeah, I think obviously there's been a bit of change at the club recently, you know, even just in my time. You could say that again, yeah.

In my time as the 18s coach, you know, just in terms of Jason Wilcox in his role, obviously Ruben coming in after Eric as well. So there's been a bit of change there. But I think the main constant for us has obviously been Darren Fletcher within the first team environment as well, which has been really good. And he's obviously been really supportive. So within that two year spell, I think, to be honest, it's more Travis with Darren as opposed to

It would be Travis Moore just speaking around which individuals are training with the first team, where are they at in terms of their development, what are we exposing them to? And then naturally, Ruben and the first team staff, the more players train and they get it,

that exposure, you know, nine, nine under 18s were training with the first team this morning. And then it's up to the players to perform, you know, so I think Ruben has shown in his short time at the club that he will give young players an opportunity, not just in training, but in terms of first team minutes. And then our messages to the players is when they go over, you know, you,

You may sometimes be there just because the first team have asked for certain numbers. It may be because they've asked for certain positions. There might be times where they've asked for certain players and then that's your opportunity to perform. All the club, manager or the environment can give you is those opportunities and then it's about you taking them and backing yourself when you're in them situations.

But our job, obviously, first and foremost is to try and showcase the players and put them in front of the manager's eyes and the staff's eyes. We need to energise the first team. So essentially, that's first and foremost our job.

It's not easy to develop Premier League potential and Premier League talent and it's even harder to do it at this club. So the way we look at it is we have to produce a Champions League and an international level player to consistently play within our first team. But we're quite hopeful that we've got a good core of players coming from underneath.

and we keep working really hard to try and support them to get there. Chido Obi was missing from the Arsenal game because he was needed by the senior team, which I guess maybe is more accelerated than anyone would imagine. But is he someone that could play in this FA Youth Cup semi-final? And what's the kind of dialogue like when it's somebody that is on that cusp of

the first team? I know the injuries have kind of pushed him to that point now, but yeah, what was that discussion like and is he potentially going to be available for you again this season? Yeah, I think, listen, naturally we'll be governed by what the first team need and the way they approach their, you know, programme and the game. So obviously the first team is the priority and

So I guess we'll have to see closer to the time just in terms of where the first team are at, the squad, not just Chido, but there might be one or two others in that as well. And then we make the best decision just in terms of for the player at that moment. Would we like Chido to play every minute of every game? Of course, but naturally as a developer and when you see the individual programmes for the players,

As long as they're playing, developing and enjoying their football, we're obviously working from the top down. So we just have to see closer to the time and stuff. But I think more importantly at this stage, it's just nice to see Chido's journey from when he first came into Arsenal.

which is obviously a big move for a 16-year-old boy to make. Obviously, we're really excited about him in terms of his potential and his talent. And for him to see the noticeable improvement that he's made in that time and the impact that he's had, I think that's been brilliant. So it's a bit of a conundrum for us in terms of the semi-final, but the bigger picture, if you would have said to us that Chido would have been in this position

when he first signed this soon being at the club, I think we would have took it, you know, so that ultimately that's got to be a success. And what does he do well, do you think? And what has he improved this season? I think, listen, I think he's horrible to play against and he's got that lovely way about him, Chido, where, you know, he backs himself. He's got that,

a healthy arrogance about him where it's like, I want to play at the top and I want to get better and I want to improve. And I think he's definitely brought that to the group, but you can see that within him as well. Where he had a bit of a break between finishing at Arsenal and coming here,

Physically, just in terms of his game, getting a run of games under his belt, etc. I think that was really important for him. Then new teammates, new part of the world, new club. He's then living in digs. He's playing against different oppositions, different age groups.

So I think to his credit, he's handled that really, really well. So listen, I think you can see the type of player that he can be and his qualities. He's got a real good eye for goal. His finishing is very good. He's good in the air. He uses his body well. Without getting overly excited, you can see what he could potentially be. So it's been nice to see him make them strides. And listen, he's got a long way to go and he knows that as well. But he's in a real good space at the minute.

Ruben Amarin has got a very good record of bringing young players through. How encouraged or discouraged have you been from what you've seen of him with the younger players at Manchester United? I know he's got a lot on his plate with the first team,

but I've seen some managers in the past 10 years be far more interested than others. We'd have to say that it's a positive thing, definitely. And I think for us, it's an easy sell when you see sort of younger players playing in the first team. And this was similar to Eric, you know, with him in terms of

not just academy products, but young players say in their early 20s playing and getting comparative minutes. I think that is an easy way for us to be able to inspire our players and show them that these things are attainable, but really tough to do, you know, so

I think it's definitely a positive thing. We're able to put a lot of players in front of the first team manager and the first team staff. As I said before, then it's up to the players to then perform and show how good. And I think that's our challenge as staff and as an academy in terms of the recruitment, the coaching, the development is we have to produce and develop players that are good enough to play at that level. So it's a two-way process. We need to recruit and develop the talent

And then at the top of the club, there needs to be an opportunity for the top talent to be able to come through. So I think we're in quite...

a nice and optimistic space where that's the case and everybody at the club is obviously really committed towards doing that. Wing backs is obviously a crucial role in the Rupert Amarant system and it feels like maybe a few of the guys that have been in your team this season could fill those gaps ultimately at some point in the future. Harry Amass has already kind of made that step in terms of the Premier League for a start at least.

And then you've got Jadon Camerson and Bendito Mantato as well, who seem very aggressive runners down the wings and obviously contributing goals as well. What do you think of those players in particular? And also just on Amas, he obviously played the full game against Arsenal and then Ruben said that he might have liked to play him or at least feature him against Fulham in the FA Cup. How was that conversation? Yeah, I think, you know, in answer to the first bit is...

The first team have obviously got their playing style and their positional profiles and then it's up to our players to develop and to be able to showcase them in those areas. So, you know, Bendy's a good example. For instance,

He's played a lot as a winger for the 18s and in a wide, wide position. But he's always had them characteristics and qualities where he can be flexible and adaptable in terms of his positions as well. So you're then looking at in terms of the wingback position, he could potentially be that flexible.

And Jadon Camerson is similar, but the other way. So he plays predominantly as a full-back, but he's obviously one that likes to get forward and can affect the game higher up the pitch. If the players have got quality, the manager is going to look at them and he's going to see something in them and the club, the staff, and then they will mould into those positions and get those opportunities.

with being too bogged down by positions, et cetera. It's like, we need to get the players to a certain level and a high level in terms of their individual game. And then naturally they'll move into the first team and progress in that way, you know? So, and then obviously the manager with his experience will understand how to help them just on that next stage and stuff. So,

we very much just work off of what is best for the player at that moment in that time. So depending on what's going on and what's needed, we'll prioritise the games and the programme for that player. So in the end, obviously with Harry, just because of the game and the way it boiled out, it ended up going into extra time, which then meant that he played 120 minutes and stuff.

yeah, not, we didn't want the game to go to extra time either, you know, it just ended up being one of them. Get a train back, it was a great extra time period. I mean, so drinking, if you'd played 90, you might have featured, for example, or was it just the full 120 that made it a bit of a... Yeah, I think it was just the case in terms of how the game was. I think obviously since with Harry, he's had a real good run of games, he's looked really fit, he's looked really strong and he's performed to a good level. Obviously, he's got

back into the first team in terms of some involvement and then eventually made his debut a couple of weeks ago. So obviously a fantastic moment for him. His 18th birthday as well, special that, isn't it? Yeah, it's not a bad present, is it? And obviously it goes again to show that the manager and the staff will put the players...

in that environment, but obviously it has to be earned as well. I guess another dilemma for you, isn't it? Then you sort of maybe lose another player for the FA Cup semi-final. I don't know. I ain't got a team at the minute. I was thinking that. You're probing for the line-up here, aren't you? I'm sorry. Well, I mean...

another player that has sort of featured in that first team sort of bubble is Jack Fletcher and obviously his brother Tyler. I mean, can you tell them apart when you're like, you know, telling them where to play on the pitch? Colin definitely can't, no matter what he says. So don't let him say any different. But yeah, I, yeah, I'll say I can, but yeah,

Yeah, but they've definitely obviously high potential players. Again, obviously in terms of their dad and the career that he had and being at this club, there's no one better in terms of, you know, to give them advice and to help them along the way. And I have to say in terms of Darren, how he's been with, you know, me in particular, but just with the staff and the academy has been a real support.

There's no pressure to play them every week then? Well, they play every week anyway, so that one takes care of itself. But no, listen, there's not been any sort of conversation like that. Darren is, again, forget about the games, more things around the development of the boys. Are they enjoying their football?

Are they getting opportunities to have success? Are they getting opportunities to be stretched? That's the way that we'd think about each individual. And it is this one because of obviously who Darren is. And then also for the boys themselves,

you know, being twins in the age group as well, you know, so it's their individuals as well, you know, so sometimes you can, people talk about, you know, the Fletchers and, but individually they're, you know, obviously they're similar in ways, but different in other ways and different types of players as well. But in terms of looking at the progression that they've shown since they've been in, they're both in a real good place at the moment. And I think for Tyler, particularly having so many sort of growth related injuries and a stop start,

year last year to see how he's really developed and pushed on in terms of that level and the consistency this year has been really good so yeah really positive on the whole Brilliant Adam it's been absolutely fantastic to have you on the podcast thank you for doing it and of course best of luck on Monday I hope you don't need extra time this time to see our Fasten Villa thank you Brilliant thank you cheers all

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Excellent, right. We've got another guest for you on Talk of the Devils, Colin Little.

We're sat in the same room as we were when we chatted to Adam a short time ago. We're overlooking the pitches at Carrington. It's a beautiful day in Manchester. I think we can classify this as beautiful, can't we? Absolutely. Blue skies. It's like this every day. Oh, yeah. Is it like this every day, Karl? Not really, no. We're looking forward to a few more days like this. It's been great today. Yeah. You've been here a very long time, haven't you? It doesn't feel like a long time. It goes in a blur, to be honest with you. But yeah, I know...

I finished up playing football myself and 31, 32, I ended up going to Altrincham. I phoned them up and said, look, I'm going to be...

finishing my career I could have gone to Northern Ireland with Linfield but I ended up going to Altrincham and while I was at Altrincham I'm playing five-a-side with Brian McClare and Dennis Irwin and Frank Stapleton on a Friday night and quite a five-a-side that by the way it was a top five-a-side team trust me it's been going for about 20 years I used to play even if I had a game in it at the weekend on a Friday I used to be a bit fatigued for my actual league games you know what I mean the five-a-side was probably harder than the league game right usually Dennis Irwin was marking me so it was yeah definitely and

and what happened was um i was working for crew just doing uh i think it was under 15s um nick powell's group and um because i'd played for crew and he had connections i weren't really that that that keen on moving you know anyway i ended up like speaking at a choccy and one day i came it was like the best thing that i ever did it was at that time this was the leading lighting in any academy or developments you know we were getting players through regularly and

When you watch the team play, you knew it was a Man United type team, you know what I mean? So when I walked through the door, it was like a real like, wow, this is unbelievable. You know what I mean? Loved it. And it's been a blur since then, to be fair. 15 years nearly it is. Yeah, we'll talk about your job now, clearly, and obviously the years that you've spent here. But Andy's got a bit of an inside track on Collins' career.

Well, the end of Colin's career, aren't you, Andy? I've seen Colin play loads of times. He played up front with my brother. That's what I was sort of getting at, yeah. At Altrincham. Yeah, we played the famous, well, we got promoted back to the conference and we played, we had to go through the playoffs, but all our games were away games. I don't know, we must have finished in the last place in the playoffs, but we had to go, I don't know, it was somewhere in Birmingham, it might have been Solihull Moors now or...

It was noneaten, Colin. Was it noneaten? Yeah, yeah, there you go. You need to ask the Anorak, he'll tell you. He went to penalties and I remember Josh scored his penalty, I think I scored as well, but no, yeah, it was... And they got halting back to where they really deserved to be, so yeah. He'll tell you the attendance as well if you ask him, probably. Colin, I was listening to that game on BBC Warwickshire and I was on a first date with an American girl

And I heard substitute coming on, Joss Mitton, looks a bit of an handful, this lad. And I was completely captivated, especially when he took the penalty. There was like 3,000 people there. And never saw the girl again. Told you he'd know the attendance. Colin, you were a cracking...

goal scorer you played league football not a lot of people listening to this will be familiar with you as a player but you were a street footballer you had a real good instinct can you coach some of the youngsters that you've described me really well but then I landed at Crewe and they they developed me into a much more all-round type player when when something's required that needs to be deliberate and it wasn't off the cuff so I ended up in some good coaches coaching me and then

it had a bit of an influence on me and how I seen coaching after that. Now there's people out there who say, oh, you can't coach people like, you can't coach people this. But I think the modern day game now has changed so much that the best coaches are usually people from a teaching background. They're not just ex-players anymore. And that's had a big influence on me that people who've been to Loughborough or they've finished their

finished their careers early through injury. The game has got so much more complicated, whether we like it or not. The goalkeeping role, the build-up from the back,

the, you know, all the layers in midfield, the different roles. Whereas when we really all grew up, it was 4-4-2, you kicked the ball up to the top of the pitch. People had a little fight for it and whoever landed on it had a bit of possession. And of course I'm being a bit crude there, but it was much like that. The ball was out of control quite a lot. And if the ball's out of control, if you can have control, there's lots of things you can coach people and play smaller passes.

the big defenders have less chance to get up against you and like manoeuvre you out the way because it's more on your terms, if you like. Colin, you mentioned a Man United type team. What do you think that constitutes? What does that sort of crystallise in your mind? Well, that's a great question because we talk about it a lot. I mean, I just grew up on, they were like the Red Arrows, weren't they? From...

going back to the 60s and 70s Gordon Hill and all them to Kanchelskis and they've always had very very quick transitions with like fast wingers that's sort of like what I would call a thread of a Man United team and they'd score goals within three or four seconds of the ball changing hands and everybody was

running towards that goal and like it's quite intimidating Paul McGuinness should talk about even if they ran out in the tunnel they all run out with the red shirts on and the chests out and it has an influence on how I see our team's play you know being here that long you know What do you like about the current crop you're working with? Great lads I mean

I remember speaking to Adam at the start of the year, we thought we're not going to have any problems with these lads. I don't mean problems like big problems, but like they're all just, they're all really good people. They want to learn. And it's been quite easy this year in terms of like, you know, we,

you have your game model and the way you want to play and they've all bought into it and they're easy. I'm sure the teachers at the school would say the same about them, you know. You've had some great success as well, haven't you, across the last couple of years and this team obviously building up to Monday, the opportunity to get to an FA Youth Cup final, another one for Manchester United. I know it's not just about success, it's about sort of building players and building personalities within those players as well on and off the pitch but

that must really give you job satisfaction that the team can be a success, but you can also provide players for the first team because so many of them have already had a taste of that. I think that's the key, what we talked about before just off air, where we know what the job is. Our job is to get players over there who can make the biggest difference on the biggest stage. That's what it is in my head. It's like if there's a Champions League final,

we should have some of our players who can make a difference in it. You know, we're not just trying to get some people over there who can tickle the first team and move on and stuff. Of course, that might be the bit under it, but we want to make the biggest difference. And we've managed to do that consistently for quite a few years, haven't we? But like you say now, we know what the job is. But if you've got your programme running properly, which we've managed to do, you know,

going to have success because you're going to be developing players in the right way and the winning is just a byproduct of them things so you really want to be getting to the ends of these tournaments and trying to because you want your players to have all them experiences but if we went out like we did last year against Swindon in a game of football anything can happen I remember that's character building though as well and it's tasting that disappointment yeah I mean and there's just no givens in football so I remember a

A few years ago, Man City got beat by Plymouth in one of the early rounds. I think I've seen, I got told that we had like World Cup winners, you know, it was the PK and people like that. We got beat by Stoke, didn't we? And when you see the team, Johnny Evans, PK, but this can happen. But what it shows you, if you are getting to the latter stages of these competitions and you are, and we should be because we're Man United, but it shows that

you're doing some good things, but it's also, if you do go out, it's not an excuse. It doesn't mean that you're not doing the right things. It's a cup competition. You can go out, but we should be consistently getting good results and we should be doing all them things, but it doesn't always mean that when you don't get the results that you're not, your programme still should be good, if you know what I mean. It shouldn't be a barometer, but we need to be getting to the ends of these competitions for sure.

One player that speaks very highly of your impact on him was Marcus Rashford throughout the past few years. I just wondered how important is it to have some of your experience in that way that you've obviously seen how you can get a player, and I know it wasn't just you, I know it's obviously him and other coaches, but to be able to have that journey from the academy to the first team, to being a big star, to have that in your mind and be able to transmit that to the current crop now? Well, it's really good for me personally, but it's good evidence as well. It just...

it gives you some evidence and some proof, and you've seen what the talent looks like. He's been here 15 years, he's an exceptional player and a good person, I still speak to him regularly. But you've also got in there Alanga, Mason, we've had some really good forwards, even Ashley Fletcher, people who are scoring

regularly and you stay in touch with him as often as you can or you see him score a certain goal that you might have helped him on certain foot patterns. I remember Alanga talking about one where he arranged his feet and we'd been doing it but I'm in a privileged position to do them things but what you're really doing as a coach is making them aware of certain things that they could, I think that's what coaching is really now, it's like these younger generation and my sons and

all the people I know is it wasn't like our generation they want evidence of why are we doing this and what's the reason and is it

how do I benefit and are you any good at it why should I listen to you and that's the kind of things you know that's what getting the YouTube videos out from Ultragoob yeah have a look at this yeah it does help by the way if you can show a good demo now and again it does definitely so I've just been out there still got it just been out there with Shay now doing some bits with Shay Lacey so and it does help if you can do a demo but what you do is over the course of time you're building up

relationships and little threads that bind you together in a way. And so Olango scored them two the other day and you'll speak to him after the game and all them kind of things. And what it is, is we should be having the best talent at the club. And if you can make, listen, these are top, top players, by the way. The other thing is they're probably going to be players. Well, they're definitely going to be players.

But can you put bits into them that makes them a little bit better? That's probably the bit. If I don't go anywhere near him, they're still going to be players, by the way. There's still a satisfaction in there. I mean, even though Alanga's doing it for Nottingham Forest and not Manchester United, the fact that this club has still got such a huge fingerprint on him is still, for you, a point of satisfaction in the job that you're doing because he's still providing funds for the club. He had an impact, obviously, on the first team when he was here as well. There's still, I guess...

you know, coaches around the place keeping an eye on these players no matter where they are. Yeah, for sure. And like I said before, you've got them, you've got threads that are binded together. You've been on tournaments together. You've been all over and, you know, we've won last minute winners and all them kind of things that we're going through now with these lads where I think Kieran McKenna once said, we're all going to leave the building at some point and it's what you've done while you were here and the friends you've made and the experiences and the memories and all them things like that. I mean, that's probably why you go into coaching. I mean, I had...

I was content with my football career and I've got no regrets

ambition if you like to go and be a manager or do anything else i think i found a nice niche what i like to do and it's the things you just described with and it's not i get a lot of uh praise for the forwards and stuff and what everybody works with them forwards and everybody works with and and you i work with the midfielders and the defenders as well it's like you probably just get because of marcus and a few of the others how you get a stereotype that you work with the forwards but no i think everybody is doing the same as me they're all doing the same and it's

you know probably because the forward score the goals you end up getting the that's what they say you end up getting a bit more plaudits than somebody else you know but I speak to Callum Whelan at

he's playing for Carlisle at the moment, a midfielder and other people. You don't lose track of anybody really because you've spent some good time with him. We were chatting earlier about Adam becoming a bit of an adopted Mancunian. Obviously, you've got a very strong Manc accent, which I think our listeners will appreciate. You didn't grow up in South London, did you? I don't even think I've got one, but everyone says I sound like Bez out there.

Can you shake the maracas? Can you dance like him? That's the important question. I wanted to ask Adam this earlier, actually, but obviously he brings a voice that other players will identify with because you do get players from all over the country. But, you know, that sort of variance of different experiences and different voices that players can identify with, that feels like it's an important blend to have. It's massive in what I just said. So, you know, sometimes it's a bit of humour, sometimes, but I think being a good coach nowadays and

This is just from my experience and we debate this quite a lot. You have to have a connection with the players because they're different. They're not like, when the manager told me what to do, I just did it and I didn't question it and run there. You have to do that and you have to do that. I'm going to do it. It was as simple as that. But that doesn't mean it was right or wrong. It was just how it was in them days. And now they question it and they want to know. And because they play on the PlayStation, they know the formations and they're

tactically football's changed so dramatically they all understand what certain roles should be and why don't we play this you could sit in a dressing room at the end of the game and you got beat and the four or five of them will have five different ideas of what you should have done that wouldn't have been the case years ago so I think you have to have connections with them you have to be able they have to be able to trust you they have to know that you're authentic and you

when you do all them things, I think that's when you have a real bond with the players and, you know, and you have a, and listen, that's going on here all the time. Trav, Dave, Adam, they have a real bond and they trust you and then you have a collection of players who all just want to get better and they're passing it over to you and they trust you to do that and like, you know,

And it's quite a powerful thing that. But there is the odd outlier where you've not quite connected with someone. He might be, could be a Swedish boy or whatever. And I just, without making a big thing of it, I think of ways I can connect with him. And it might be the odd joke here and there. I might find out something about him.

Sweden, where he's from. I'm using that as a poor example, really. But basically, they need to know... That's all concerned about flat-pack furniture. I was at IKEA at the weekend, whatever it is. I was going to say, it obviously worked with Anthony. Yeah, no, yeah, exactly. It has to be authentic as well. If you're forcing it and pushing it. So Amari liked Formula One, I remember. I remember Wolfie saying, oh, he's into... Amari forced it. Yeah, he liked Formula One. But some, it's just easy. The connection's there instantly, you know what I mean? We've got...

we've got the Finners and all the Salford kids and you make connections quite easy but I think I was probably

built to do that even without football probably a little strength that I've got that I wasn't when you're on a podcast yeah no yeah I just don't shut up everyone on the coach tells me to shut up sometimes because they're like I just can't stop you know what I mean but yeah no that's it's something that's probably helped me in a way with the players particularly because they feel that they can they can relax around you and be and and trust you a little bit and and then but then to get them to believe in what you're saying you have to have

some evidence like you said before and all that kind of stuff Colin you're a Wyvernshaw lad three of the England team at the Euros last year came from within three miles of where you grew up why does that area produce so many elite level footballers

And who gets the next brilliant Wythenshawe kid? Does he go to United? Does he go to City? Does he go to Amis? Or does he go to town? Yeah, you're spot on there. Well, I know Cole Palmer's family quite well. And I know his dad and his uncle. And we were close to getting Cole Palmer when he was about 16, believe it or not, when he was at Manarding. And I knew he was a big United fan. But you're right. I think, first of all,

The street football like you talked about, it still goes on because it isn't as affluent, it isn't as... So people will, you know, if you haven't got a PlayStation, you probably end up having a ball and people have to go and play. So you still see areas of grass where players are playing on it with a makeshift net, if you like, and people will be out there on a Sunday and that's probably that spirit of going and playing football used to drive past Marcus. I lived not more than 30 doors away from Marcus when he was a kid and you'd see him playing football and...

They love the game. They just want to play but then

How do we get them? So when I first got here, without a doubt, everybody wanted to be at Man United. And it's nothing to do with, you know, we had the Beckhams, we had the people from London, we always had people in our Manus group who were from out of town, from London. But what's happened is it's just got harder and it's nothing to do with Man United. The other teams competed much more. Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City made a real conscious effort, you know, and it becomes more of a choice.

And then nowadays it's like, well,

If you can prove that your programme and you're getting into the first team is you've got a better chance than the others, I think that's what most of them want to buy into. It's like the parents are probably more bothered about the school, although the players aren't, but that's really important. And then the players themselves are more bothered about what does the programme look for me? They all want to know. It's like, well, will I get a chance? We've always done that, haven't we, as you know, but we've got to make sure that we carry on doing that and that'll put us ahead still. I can't...

I just know that a load of our listeners will be like, wait, Karl Palmer could have signed for United. Was there any, like, what happened there or can you shed any more light at all? Well, he was at that age where you're allowed to leave, 16 is it, where you're looking and they were roaming and hiring Man City about it. I think City in the end made him a good enough offer but really he was always a United fan and he was, it was close anyway, I remember speaking, it was like, I think City needed to show him a bit more. Well,

bit more love and that kind of stuff I think Jason Wilcox was the academy director who made the play to keep him at City at that point as well so funny how things work yeah he shouldn't have done as good a job actually and we never quite got it over the line but it would have been nice if we did wouldn't it yeah

It happens though, doesn't it? That's part of it. I need to ask you about your working relationship with Adam considering he's just walked in the room and sat in the corner. It seems a perfect time to bring it up. So two points. Firstly, can you tell the Fletchers apart? Yeah, but it's took me a while. What's your technique?

Well, no, at the start I was looking at they both wore a different colour pair of boots, so I was tricking them a little bit. But now I can tell, I definitely tell. They don't like it if you don't get it right. I don't blame them, you know. That's part of what we talked about before. They've got to know. Finding the connection. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, no, you can tell they're slightly different, aren't they, when you see them close up?

And then, yeah, how is it when you're on the sidelines with them? Because I've watched you in the last couple of games, I've been at the Chelsea game, I've been at the Arsenal game, in the FA Youth Cup. It feels like you've got a really good relationship in terms of seeing something happen in the game and just getting that message and telling the player exactly what you want in the next moment.

I think that's just like what we talked about before, same with Adam, it's over the course of time, so I think the two Fletchers are quite, they have a good opinion on the game and they don't... Like with their dad. Yeah, no, but it's a modern day, the players have an opinion and they're quite intelligent and so...

they'll have their opinion and sometimes you have to show them stuff and at first it may be short position on a pitch but when you've relayed it back to them and then after a while they start to realise that they can trust you because it's the start like I said about all the players like well why should I don't think that was what happened or I don't think I should have made that run or maybe I shouldn't have done this but I think like

We said before, I think modern-day players have an opinion and they want a bit of buy-in from you, but over the course of time, they trust you because they see that it was right.

How important is it to have an away following at Villa Park on Monday? A little bird tells me over a thousand United end tickets have been sold. And the Arsenal game was incredible. We were talking with Adam a minute ago. Nearly all my mates are proper Reds. They go home and away. They never stopped singing throughout. And even when we had that little wobble, they were the ones who kept going and I thought it was fantastic. And it's inspiring. The lads at the end are talking about it and they're...

It's incredible the away following, isn't it? And like, what we hope is that they get behind. It's only down the road, isn't it? And they can go and watch. And we talk about getting a little connection with these players early on and, you know, so that they feel...

bonded towards them and if they do go on and make a career in the first team which we all hope they do that they've also got that little connection stemming back to when they went to watch us at Villa Park or whatever it was Colin it's been brilliant to have you on best of luck for Monday thank you very much thank you very much thank you

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Okay, next in the impromptu Carrington hot seat for Talk of the Devils is Head of Academy Nick Cox. Nick, thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. Good to see you all again. Lovely to have you here. Yeah, again, well, this is the third time I think you've been on Talk of the Devils, so it's fantastic to speak to you again. Quite a lot's changed from the last time we spoke. It seems to be week-to-week change here at the moment, to be fair.

But the INEOS investment hadn't been ratified the last time we spoke. I think Jason Wilcox had only just come on board as well. So how have things changed across the last 12 months for you in your role? There's been a lot of change. I lose track of all the moving parts, but I think it's fair to say that

From a football perspective, we've seen a complete change in senior leadership, including the first team coach. The most important thing, I think, in terms of developing young players and running a successful football department is alignment. And it's fair to say that we are laying foundations to make sure that there's a serious amount of alignment that runs through academy, first team and across all the teams that support players on the pitch.

So there's been a lot of work with Jason Wilcox, who, you know, from my perspective, it's brilliant to have Jason here because we know each other. He knows my world, so he knows how to help. He knows what the challenges are. He knows what the stresses are. And between him and other senior members, we're in the process of trying to put a framework together that will, you know, you might not necessarily see the immediate impact, but over time, you'll start to see a bit more of an aligned approach that,

Helps us to be competitive, helps to make sure that young players, it's a difficult transition and it's never a smooth one, but if you're aligned, you create an environment where the chances are increased. So there's some good stuff going on. Obviously the INEOS connections, and it's important we don't keep referring to INEOS, it's Man United, right? There's a group of Man United people who are passionate about making Manchester United the best we can possibly be.

But that comes with some obvious connections and networks. So some of our staff have had some amazing opportunities to work across different sports, to meet unbelievable practitioners from different worlds that we might not have otherwise bumped into.

and that allows us to develop expertise and allows us to share knowledge, share ideas and help us to keep ahead of the game, keep striving to innovate, which is one of those principles that I think Man United has been built on. We've always been the first to do stuff, whether that's a youth team going to Europe in whatever it would have been, 52, 53,

whether it's, I don't know, whether it's the first to build an academy, whether it's the first to appoint a sports scientist, innovation is what we're all about, right? So this is the next incarnation of innovation and innovation.

and going after being at the cutting edge. I think one of the big changes that fans see is obviously the switch in formation at first team level that hasn't been replicated at the academy and I think actually at Sporting it was kept as a 4-3-3 in the academies anyway so it wasn't like Ruben Amarin's system there was then sort of transposed onto the youth teams. Do you think that will continue and I guess what challenges does that provide or what, I don't know,

What steps might you have to take then to make sure that players are ready potentially to step into the first team when it's going to be slightly different formations, slightly different positions for them? And obviously, overall from that, the game model that is kind of, I guess, ideally passed down from the club, it feels like

maybe there's a, it's not quite as simple as this is the formation of the game model. It's more about, I don't know, player styles and attributes. It's a really interesting question. I've been asked it a lot. It's important that the way the academy teams play or the game model, as it's called, the playing style, the playing principles belong to the club and not just to me. Um,

What is the purpose of an academy? We've got to prepare players to be able to play the modern game. And we've got to be able to develop flexible, adaptable, well-rounded players that have got a broad education of the game. It's one thing to get the players to the start line, which is a debut. And I'm sure we're going to talk about debuts shortly. But actually, the job in hand here is...

These lads will still be playing in 2045, 2050, depending on how sports science evolves, right? I've got no clue about how the game might look in 2045, 2050, but I'm pretty sure it's going to be a more flexible season

quick, dynamic game than we've got today. So our commitment to the boys has got to be to give them a full education of the game. That is for the boys that play in our first team. They're going to need to be adaptable and flexible throughout their careers. But we've got to prepare players to be able to play away from here as well. We want the boys to be able to

you know, thrive in wherever their football journey takes them. So our model has to be modern. It has to develop flexible players and it's got to allow players to develop the tools to be able to play in Ruben's team. It's important that the principles are the same. So if you were to look at the groups, the principles of how we play

are the same. The tactics don't necessarily have to be. The way we are striving to play at 18s and 21s, we think is going to develop really well-rounded players that will be able to function at a high level in Ruben's team. So you won't see us using the same tactics, but in youth development, the tactics are a bit of a backdrop. What we're really after is

individuals with the tools that can play modern football, that can adopt modern principles. And I think as well, what you've got to realise is that players don't suddenly jump from playing in the 21s on Monday morning to making a Premier League debut on Tuesday afternoon. I think you're right in terms of it feeling like you've got players that clearly might be playing in one position. We spoke about it earlier with Adam McCollum in terms of the full-backs in his system. Camerson, for example, you're thinking he could be a wing-back.

You can see the different attributes that could then translate to first team. - Cobi would be a good example of a player that had never played as a deep-layer midfielder, maybe once or twice.

but he actually practiced it for the first time in the Premier League. In order to be able to do that, you better have unbelievable game sense. You better have a varied range of attributes, physical attributes, technical skills to be able to be that adaptive. So it's the principles, yeah. So it's the principles that are important. It's the toolbox that's important. You're going to have to be flexible to go and fit into however the team happens to be playing at that moment in time. And trends change, coaches change.

teams evolve so it's about a foundation of trying to give our players an education Nick I wrote quite a critical article about the youth system it was a decade ago now and that wasn't a slight at individuals it was more of the way that I felt it was

under-resourced. How would you describe the current state of Manchester United's academy system 10 years on in 2025? Yeah, so look, we've talked about the article that you wrote. It was an accurate article and a timely article. What I will say about this football club is regardless of the state of the academy, the output has never wavered in terms of productivity for our first team and for the wider game. But there was a period of time potentially where

And I'm not being critical of individuals at all. There's always been brilliant individuals here. They've all always been highly skilled, but there's always a backdrop with the tools that they're given to work with. Maybe we got a little stale, a little complacent, fell behind the curve, failed to innovate, failed to be modern. You fast forward 10 years, it's difficult to answer that because I think the point at which you've cracked it is the point at which you've started to fail. So there's not a day where...

I don't turn up to work or the staff don't turn up to the work. Thinking about how we should be better, how we could have been better, what do we need to improve, where's the game heading, what might we need to do next? So it's really important that I don't become complacent

But at the same time, we have to be unbelievably proud of the work that's going on. I think if you watch the groups, you'll see talented players, you'll see teams that function really well together, you'll see progress, you'll see a slightly more modern approach and we've probably embraced some of the multidisciplinary approaches

support that's available for young players. So the whole game has gone through a change, like EPPP, the investment into youth development. I think the Premier League invested £2 billion. Obviously, the club has invested significantly more of its own money. We've gone from a world where it was heavily coach dependent to, yeah, it's now coach led. But the coach has got the support now of an unbelievable athletic development team and a sports psychologist, performance analysts.

brilliant medical people, all of that going off in the background, the unsung heroes. The challenge you've got though is you've got to make sure that you don't

move too fast like if you wire your under nines up put them under surveillance with a camera on them and a heart rate monitor and a gps kind of measure their every move well you're probably going to stifle a bit of creativity and a bit of the joy of and the playfulness of being a kid who loves a bit of footy so our program still looks and feels like that as the kids get older it starts to look a little bit more like the work that Ruben will be doing with his plates

In terms of the changes that have happened perhaps in the last 12 months, it feels from the outside that maybe there's been a bit more of an attention paid to the kind of recruitment that you can do at the academy level, maybe taking that chance on players when maybe there would have been a hesitation or a slight uncertainty.

before I don't know if that's unfair but you know in terms of Chido Obi coming in in terms of Sekou Kone coming in and I know it's probably you know his first team signing but Aidan Heaven you know he was in Arsenal's academy taking that chance at that moment to do it now rather than wait till the summer what do you think about the kind of recruitment side of things that United are now uh

under the instruction of? So there's been an evolution of the approach but there's still a great commitment to a tried and tested formula which I don't know if you look at any great Manchester United first team it's a healthy balance of players that have been right through the programme local boys from the surrounding areas

Do you add a Bobby Charlton on top? Do you add a George Best on top? Do you add Paul Pogba on top? For every generation of great groups, that's the formula. There's not been a radical step change away from that. I think you've seen throughout my time here that sense of growing a group organically and adding some high potential talent on top from whether that be the best club in this country or bringing a Garnaccio from over the seas.

Probably the slight difference that you're seeing is in recent years we've been signing players into the academy or we've been signing players into a first team slot.

But with the evolving group of staff that we've got and the expertise that has been brought to the club, there's now this sense that actually there's somewhere in between the academy and the first team. And you're bringing players that potentially might already have started their careers elsewhere that are on an upward trajectory that might not be brought here to be a regular first team starter, but they will be a player that will have a great opportunity to be in and around the first team. They will develop skills.

and be ready for the first team in the future so that's probably what you've seen a little bit more of in terms of you mentioned Sekou Kone you mentioned Aidan Heaven but having said that is that not Man United as well so Wayne Rooney Cristiano Ronaldo it's like you go and find the best players and

you develop and you nurture young players as well as buying the more senior players that are going to go straight into the first team. So, yeah, there's probably been a little bit of a tweak or a shift in the way that you've seen us work in the last few months, but maybe getting back to what we used to be brilliant at, I would have thought. When you look at Aidan Heaven and the start that he's made in the Manchester United first team, hopefully his injury is not too severe, but it shows you that if you do sign a player in that in-between bit, it's not very long before they can be a first-team player and

he's obviously a great example of that. I don't want to use up too much of your time, Nick, because I know you've got more interviews to do, but Monday is such a brilliant day.

thing to look forward to for the academy of the FA Youth Cup semi-final I'm just wondering if United do get through which hopefully they do would you rather have a Manchester derby in the final or a Nick Cox derby in the final so that's an interesting one yeah look Monday's going to be a really nice occasion let's focus on the semi-final not get carried away it's yeah it's only because it's Manchester City and Watford and it gave me an obvious question I'm more than happy to talk about it but the semi-final the final if we get there

The competition is special across English football. Every young player wants to play in the Youth Cup. Every player that's achieved in the senior game can remember their Youth Cup experience, whether that was a successful one or not. It is the competition that excites every young player across the country. You don't need me to remind you, but at this club, that sense of specialness is increased because of

All those wonderful players that have played in the competition and won the competition prior to the group that we've got now. So obviously the 2022 group, but also the teams in the 50s. We won the first five competitions. We won the inaugural competition. All of our great players have had some success in that competition. And we're the record holders with 11, is it? So there is a specialness there.

you know, that's heightened at this club. And look, there's two wonderful things about the Youth Cup. Number one is a stadium game with a crowd is a great benchmark for us to assess our players and a great benchmark for the players to work out where they're at and a great reference point for when they debut. So, you know, Cobby, Alejandro, at Old Trafford, May 22, in a winning team.

Fast forward two years and they're scoring goals in a Wembley Cup final. It wasn't new. It's like I felt something like this before. So that's really important. Garton Hatchell's got to be about the only player who's managed to do that across two years, surely. Scoring in a U-Cup final and an actual senior final. Yeah, that's a really good point. So there's that element of it prepares players for the game. And that's the bit I'm fascinated by is like, how are the boys going to cope on Monday away from home in a stadium that's like a historic stadium that...

might have a decent crowd and are they going to cope under the pressure are they going to cope and it's been the same way on the journey we've had a variety of different games and so they're great learning experiences I think it's worth pointing out that 2022 team I name Cobby and I name Alejandro but I think there's maybe like nine ten that have are playing senior football whether that be with us or elsewhere so that's

Pretty special, but also I'm big on this. The journey is more important than the destination. This has got to be fun. This has got to be memorable. This has got to be life-changing. Lads playing footy for United in a red shirt. Whatever you go on to achieve in your career...

You want to have that sense of playing in a big game where your mates are lifting a trophy. So it's pretty pure as well. If you want me to talk about a potential final I can do, so the opportunity to play in a final at Old Trafford...

The only youth teams get to do that, right? You don't get to play in a final at Old Trafford as a first team player. You'd be at Wembley. So that would be special. We know how special it was last time. We know what happened. We know the number of fans that came to the ground, which we would love to top if possible, if we get there. Villa are a really good side. We've got some work to do to get past Villa.

Watford or Man City? Listen, a Manchester derby at Old Trafford would be pretty special but from a personal perspective I spent a long time at Watford and this is the height of youth development.

of Watford's under-18s and the assistant coach of both academy graduates. Matty Bevans, the coach of the 18s, I think was in the under-7s on my first day at work at Watford. I think on my last day at work he might have been an under-19 and he's now coaching a team in a Youth Cup semi-final. So there's a personal one there that's pretty special. So we'll see. But either way, we've got work to do to get through Monday but if we can...

get ourselves to a position where there's a final it doesn't matter who the opposition is it would be a magical experience for the boys and an unbelievable learning experience that will will stand the boys in good stead for for wherever their careers take them that tees up beautifully thank you nick perfect thank you thank you three very different characters lorry all with very important roles here at united and i don't know the sense i get is the the

the fact that they are such different characters can only be a benefit for the young lads and the young girls in the academy. I feel so. I mean, that was kind of my question to Colin, wasn't it? In terms of having that thread of Manchester United heritage and being a local guy, right? And a lot of the guys...

in the academy the boys and girls will be local to the area um but also you know recruitment now is you know it's a global thing but also it's it's a you know a uk wide thing and you do have you know south londoners in the united academy so here coaching the players yeah well there we go but if you've got the players that also sound like that i mean maybe it's a small thing but i think it's it's an important thing that you've got different experiences that you can come at it from different angles and you know just provide a whole you know um

tapestry, let's say, of coaching abilities. So I love speaking to all three of them. I find youth football fascinating and how you kind of produce these players into the first team and maybe elsewhere. You know, it's clearly going to be a bit of a business model as well for the new regime, you know, to raise money. They're certainly looking at it in that way. But ultimately what's shone through is the love for football, the fact that you've got these kind of occasions like at Villa Park on Monday night where it's going to be a decent crowd, hopefully, and

And, you know, you get that first experience of these players having that sort of environment where it could be hostile, you know, it could be a bit edgy, you know, certainly I was down at the Emirates and it was fun to see, you know, Jack Fletcher savour that kind of environment, you know, sliding on his knees in front of the Arsenal fans. So I think that, yeah, I don't know, there's so much we could go at, we could have talked to them for hours, but I was really appreciative of their time.

Colin Little especially, I think we only scratched the surface of some of the stories that he could have told us having been at the club for such a long time. Andy, the academy is a crucial part of Manchester United's identity. It feels like it always has been, certainly in our lifetimes. Anyway, what stood out to you from the conversations that we had? The fact that all three of them have stayed on when there's been so many changes at the club. I spent a lot of time with them last year. I did a big in-depth feature for the Athletic and it was far more positive than

than what I'd written 10 years ago. I think all three of them have got to Manchester United by very different ways, but their talent has all been spotted. Brian McLeire looked at Colin Little and thought, I see something in him. Nick Cox did really well at Watford and Sheffield United.

Adam Lawrence, South London, which is a football hotbed. The number of players that come out of South London and Adam was at Charlton Athletic doing a brilliant job in really turbulent circumstances at Charlton Athletic who were changing the first team manager all the time. So I love the mix of ingredients into there.

there's been some very good youth teams in recent years and the game on Monday is a huge one I think as many United fans should go to that as possible people moan that they can't afford tickets well tickets are dirt cheap for Monday night people moan that they can't get tickets well you can get tickets on Monday night you could be watching players who in future you'll be able to say I was there at Villa Park which is one of the best grounds it's in

Yeah, for sure. I think

what was useful from the conversations is that you know you look at the first team and obviously they're playing a certain system right and how does that work with these players that you're trying to adapt and mould into that so I thought the answers on that were really compelling a few little nuggets obviously on Chido Obi is he going to play or not you know the kind of discussions they have with Ruben Amri in the first team picture how

how they balance those minutes and clearly it's, you know, not a perfect picture at all times because, you know, you'll have players that want to play youth football and then also maybe train the next day but I guess they've got to be told exactly, you know, what their bodies can sustain and obviously I thought the little nugget from Colin about Cole Palmer at 16, if only, you know, I suppose that's

something that has been known that he's a United fan and you sort of think in future years, maybe could he come from Chelsea? But anyway, I just thought that was quite a nice little unexpected treat from us, from Colin. Yeah, we know a way in, Andy, if we need it, if we need to get Cole Palmer on board in the future anyway, don't we? Oh yeah, I've known some of these lads for a long, long time.

Colin played with my brother. He's from the street. Adam Lawrence is from the street. He's just South London streets. That's why they've got these really strong accents. But footballers don't just come from Manchester anymore. To be honest, they never did. Bobby Charlton's from Newcastle. Duncan Edwards is from Birmingham. Manchester United have always cast a wide net. The issue now is it's a global net.

but it's got all these little complications that Nick has to work within. You know, Brexit was a real spanner in the works for youth system, where you're allowed to recruit, when you're allowed to recruit, the competition with Liverpool, Everton, Manchester City, right on your doorstep. There's nowhere in world football where the competition is so intense for young players, right?

and where it's so attractive to play for these clubs. It's a really difficult job that they've got to do, but I think Manchester United stands above the others in traditionally offering a very clear pathway into what all those young players want, which is first-team football. Yeah, absolutely. That seems like a good place to leave it. It was brilliant to get the insight from

from the three of them and good luck to the team on Monday in their FA Youth Cup semi-final. Let's hope we can look forward to another final at Old Trafford where we record a podcast where somebody actually does press record. Brings me out of the cold sweat the thought of an FA Youth Cup final. Well I nearly interjected when Nick said that earlier about it was a glorious occasion that we'll all remember. I was like yeah we'll all remember that podcast. Best ever. Best podcast ever. Never to be heard.

Oh, well, I hope you enjoyed that. And I hope you enjoyed the two different podcasts that we did this week, trying to bring a different perspective on some of the stuff that's happening at Manchester United at the moment. We will try to do that, of course, in the future as well, when we have the opportunity. We will be back in a couple of days with our normal podcast, which will review what's happened across the international break and also look forward to United finally being back in Premier League action against Nottingham Forest on Tuesday. Don't forget our live shows, Belfast, Dublin, London, Manchester,

Manchester and Cork for the very first time. Tickets on sale at 11am on March the 31st. That's this coming Monday. As always, there's lots to read about on The Athletic in the meantime as well. And if you want to get in touch with the show, you can do that. Devilspod at theathletic.com. But Andy, thank you. Laurie, thank you. And thanks for listening along. We'll see you on the next one. Take care. Bye-bye.

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