Lyon draw 'best result of season' despite Onana errors
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This is Talk of the Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. It's approaching midnight in Lyon. It's approaching 11pm in Manchester on Thursday night and we've just watched Manchester United somehow win a

We know how. Draw two all against Lyon in the first leg of their Europa League quarter-final. We're here to talk about every detail of that, including Andre Onana, of course, doing his best to be the story before the game, during it and after. There's Newcastle next, of course, to look forward to in the Premier League before the second leg. But I've got Karl Anka and Andy Mitten looking back at me on my computer screen. Both of them are cuddled up in the press box.

In France, after being at the game tonight, I don't want to start on Andre Onana, I want to start on the positives if we can, because that was, apart from a couple of moments, a very good away performance in Europe from Manchester United, wasn't it, Karl? That was five minutes away from it being a famous victory, maybe five minutes away. Last kick? Last kick of the game. How far away were we from talking about Joshua Xerxe?

and how he's turned it around. Another monstrous performance from Bruno Fernandes in Central Midfield. Mason Mount coming in. We should still do it because, you know, it doesn't change those things, what happened at the end. It shouldn't. And yet I'm staring at a... Do I need to get the buzzer out here? Yeah, you do. You're going to really need to hold my hand and really help me because I am... My head's gone. I'll be honest with you. I watched the post-match...

as the United players went over to applaud the away fans and Arnaud was at the back of that segment and as they went into the tunnel, Altay Bayindir offered a little pat on the chest and Tom Heaton shook his head, gave a shrug, sort of, it is what it is as they all went down the tunnel and I think that's probably going to be the game plan from United for a little bit of it is what it is Andre, you just need to do your next job.

But so close, so close to what could and probably should have been a famous away victory. He did well there considering I said, let's not talk about the goalkeeper just yet, to not quite talk about the goalkeeper, but still talk about the goalkeeper. Andy, we'll talk about the goalkeeper in a moment. Generally speaking, I thought that was...

really encouraging from Ruben Amarin's Manchester United there's been signs in recent weeks that the performances have been getting better the results have taken a little longer there's a bit more of a lag in their improvement but overall across the 90 minutes it's

Didn't feel like they conceded many chances, obviously the goals aside. It felt like they created much more. It felt like they had control of that game in the second half. I feel confident ahead of the second leg. What do you think? Yeah, I agree with most of that. If there's any deflation, it's because Manchester United were seconds away from what would have been the most impressive win of the season. Tonight has been the biggest game of the season and Manchester United...

went to a stadium with close to 60,000 extremely loud home fans in

and bossed the game for large parts, created some very good chances. We've mentioned Bruno's performance, Josh Xerxe. I thought Lenny Yoro was excellent. His best game for United for me, Lenny Yoro. I thought Masraoui had a good game as well. Been a lovely day in Lyon, nice sunny day. So if you want the positives, I'll pour them out because there are some negatives coming and it's not just about Andre Onana. 2-2 away to Lyon is a good result. This is a Lyon team who've done

battered Rangers away 4-1 who've beaten Eintracht Frankfurt we're at the action end of the competition now it's not Champions League level but Manchester United are not so let's get realistic about where United are when Xerxe put that ball in and that away end went up 3,000 people it was like brilliant it felt like a proper buzz this is like when we went to Vescovier years and years ago

And then to lose at the end is so disappointing. And I know what's coming. I know we're going to talk about the goalkeeper. I've seen the reaction on social media. We're going to meet up with people outside the ground. But a lot of positives. Vive la France. OK, let's talk about him because it feels like we're just avoiding the elephant in the room, really. I thought a lot was made of the comments that he made before the game. I think to say that Manchester United are way better than Lyon is a bit of a...

naive thing, Kyle, to say before a game of this importance. There's no need to say it even if you think it. In some ways, the 90 minutes prove that United are better than Lyon, but let the 90 minutes prove that. You don't need to say it before the game. But having said that, you then need to be perfect, don't you? You need to back it up. You need to have a clean sheet. You need to not just...

do the basics well, you need to do the extra stuff. Onana was the pantomime villain from minute one. I don't know exactly what went on with the coin toss, but we saw United and Lyon swap ends for the opening kickoff, so Onana was stood in front of the ultras in the first half as he goes over to put his water bottle and towel into that goal. Huge boos. First touch, first minute, huge boos. And you're wondering, is Onana going to be able to put this out of sight and out of mind and just get on with his job?

The worry and concern with Andre Onana is for all of his talent, I'm not sure he can put that stuff out of sight and out of mind. Now, he's not the only goalkeeper who can react to a crowd. Apparently, the best goalkeeper in the world, according to FIFA, likes to respond to a crowd. In Martinez at Aston Villa, I've seen Jordan Pickford react to a crowd.

sometimes it works because they heat up and they have really really good performances but when that free kick goes in in the 25th minute you're going oh no that's a back page and then you're thinking okay United, Jorah gets a goal before half time as Andy said second half United were better for the majority of it I know

You asked in the Manchester derby about why Ugarte comes off in the second half. I think Amrin takes him off when United need a goal. When United need a goal, Ugarte comes off, they put Bruno deeper and they put an attacker because they want to get the ball further forward and it looked like it was going to work again. Mason Mount coming on, adds a bit of bite, then Mainu comes on as well and then you get that goal. You get that amazing moment of Xerxe giving it in front of the Lyon ultras and you're like, ah, great, put the camera on Matic now. This is all over.

But then, but then, and it's so difficult because that is something Onana has done before. He does have a tendency to parry shots into dangerous areas. This was evident last season. I wrote about it last season. And while it petered off a little bit for the majority of the calendar year 2024, it manifests at the worst possible moment. I think Pritch has written, did a tweet about how whatever script gods or whatever football gods

keep using the old scripts for United going, "Come on, this is getting boring now." "Ooh, I know now, I was a mistake. Grow up." You can hear it in my voice. I'm really, really trying to find... finding it difficult to stay measured about this because

I mean, at the very least, you did ruin my copy. I was so close to filing a full-time. Yeah, there's nothing worse than a last-second goal to ruin a copy, especially after there's been a goal on 88 minutes. A winning goal. I wrote in the running order for the podcast tonight, Zirkzee winner, 88th minute. I certainly didn't think that was going to happen after. There's two things with this, Andy. So, he shouldn't have said what he said. I don't think he...

foresaw the reaction that it would bring when he said it was quite a throwaway comment when you read the wider quotes from him obviously Nemanja Matic has done his very best to pour petrol on this particular fire as well being asked about it in the press conference and responding by saying that Onana is one of the worst goalkeepers in Manchester United's modern history but then when that first error is made just keep your head down it's happened now recover

be steady the rest of the game, don't do anything else. And even before he made that second error, there was like this moment on the goal kick. I don't know if you saw it in the stadium, but it was certainly clear on the television where he seems to be staring at the crowd for just that little bit longer than would be normal. And then a sort of hop, skip and a jump to take the goal kick. And it's just so needless. You just don't need to do it. Let the football and the result do the talking.

I just sort of feel like a player of his experience who's had moments for Manchester United already where...

We're looking at him. I just feel like he's let the team down tonight, if I'm honest, and I don't think that's too strong. He has let the team down. So what good came from him saying that? Absolutely none. The only people buzzing off it were journalists because you're getting good copy because it is the opposite of players being boring and media trained. And I interviewed Matic last Thursday. So we had that in the Athletic. And my takeaway from that was...

you're pretty interesting he was talking and as a journalist you're buzzing because you think you've got a decent interview there

I knew that he was going to be the player who was put up in front of the media. It made sense. He speaks perfect English, speaks six languages. He used to play for Manchester United. And I felt when I spoke to him, there's a bit more to him. There's a bit of Mourinho creeping in here. Very Mourinho, the comment about Onana in the press conference. Very Mourinho. You can tell Mourinho is the fifth most used player by Mourinho. Three different clubs. He's the most listened by, I don't know, the player who listened the most, clearly. Yeah, definitely.

But Anana didn't just make one little reference to Lyon. There was a second part of it as well. And he didn't need to. So where do we cut him slack? All right, English. His English is very good, but it's still a second language. Not been playing in England for that long. But you should know better. You just should know better. And Matic has just jumped on it and had half the Manchester United fans nodding along in agreement because...

and Arnaud's stock is not very high at the moment. And then he set himself up perfectly for the fall, whereas Matic is held back on the bench. So maybe he knew he wasn't going to start. And it's like, right, let's get in now. Lyon have got one of the most vocal and active ultra groups in France. It's one of the most atmospheric stadiums in the country.

And he's just given them this big cake and gone, eat it. And they've absolutely hammered him. Now, that could have gone two ways. He could have had the game of his life, but he didn't. Because the first goal was a bad mistake. And the second one, he could probably have done better. It was a lovely finish, actually, the second one. Yeah. But bad, mate. It was bad. And, you know, the sentiment has just gone so against him now, which I'm not comfortable with, but it's understandable. Yeah.

Because if he hadn't have made them mistakes, United would have won the game. They would have. And like I said before, it's not like it's the first time he's had a bad moment for Manchester United either. I mean, Opta Joe posted on Exit, no Premier League keep has made more errors leading to goals in all competitions since the start of last season than Onana. He's made eight errors directly leading to goals. We've had an absolute...

influx of emails as well. Devilspod at theathletic.com if you ever want to get in touch from people asking about what this now means. And it's not just the performance, Carl, is it? It's the whole package. It's the making a comment that's unwise before the game. It's making errors in the game. Even Maguire's reaction, actually, when he made that clearance in front of Onana in the second half.

didn't look great for the goalkeeper either even the reaction to Onana saying what you're doing didn't seem great um

So yeah, that goalie needs to go. This is from Ricky. He's running his mouth like a schoolboy, then he can't keep net. What other goalie makes as many mistakes as him? Lee, simple question. What would it take for Amrim to drop Onana? He cannot keep costing us goals games without consequence. Sonny, Onana cost us in Europe last season. May cost us in Europe this season. He's a liability. Makes the same mistakes over and over again. Imti, I backed Onana all the way, but kind of feels like today he's lost me now too.

Andy likes to use the word moderates when a manager is on a losing run and that today on Thursday night feels like Onana has lost a lot of moderates. I think if you look at the shopping list of positions United need to shop in goalkeeper,

shouldn't be higher than four. We're talking, you know, we, Laurie's spoken very well about how they're going to market for a centre forward. They're probably in the market for an athletic central midfielder. You can see him probably wanting to get something at wing back again or something or other. But goalkeeper should, should be lower down the list. And when Onana has two or three good games, that goalkeeper position goes down to four.

6th, 7th, what not in that you've got a goalie he's under the age of 30 that should be a football player who's in your squad in your starting 11 for the next 3-4 years but I've got horrible gnawing sinking feeling in my stomach

about what his social media is going to look like in the next 24 hours. He's going to get loads of stings. The Moderate United fans... Not just from the Moderates. No. And there's going to be cranks. Of course there's going to be cranks. Cranks are going to go mad anyway. But the Moderates are the one you're worried about and they're all going for him. That's the thing. Because they're pissed off. And it's understandable and some of it will go well beyond the pale. Absolutely. And that's where it becomes a big issue. I feel awful. Awful.

awful saying the things I'm saying on this podcast right now and I'm just like well the worst people out there are going to be emboldened and say disgusting things but also I'm still there going I don't know who's the Manchester United goalkeeper is going to be next season yeah on that do you know who the Manchester United goalkeeper is going to be against Newcastle Andy because Amarin spoke after the game and

and the answers didn't exactly back him. They didn't exactly say he's going to be dropped at St. James' Park either, but they were pretty non-committal. Managers get paid to make these big decisions. Let's call them the Jim Layton decisions. Explain that. I don't know that reference. Okay. So in the 1990 FA Cup final, Manchester United drew 3-1 against Crystal Palace, and in the eyes of the manager, Sir Alex Ferguson, he said,

the goalkeeper Jim Leighton had not covered himself in glory. So he dropped him for the FA Cup final replay for Les Sealy. And Jim Leighton was broken and never the same and never forgave Fergie. There were never any handshakes after that. And it was a big call at the time because Jim Leighton had been brought in. He was the number one goalkeeper. But actually...

Fergie got the decision right. Whether Amarin drops an honour now and plays Bayon D, who had a brilliant game at Arsenal, so he's shown that he can do it, that is on the manager. Just gone midnight here, the United fans are still in the away end, by the way. It's over an hour now after the final whistle.

And we really should mention the number of hoops those travelling fans had to jump through just to get in that way. It's in the running order. We definitely should talk about it, yeah. Why not do it now? OK. They were so bad, Ian, that I met United fans in town today who I've known go to games for years. And they've come to Lyon and they weren't going to go to the match. They didn't go to the game. One said, I'm 60 years old. One said, I don't want to be treated like a child anymore.

to get to the ground you had to like hopscot you way to Geneva first then you had to stand on your head for 35 minutes then you had to recite the French National Anthem backwards then you had to convert everything into Franks then you had to swim up the River Rhone to pick up a wristband of course I'm exaggerating of course I'm taking the piss but it went way way too far what is beyond reasonable United fans are well behaved and the mood was good in Lyon it's been a really nice day it's been a really

Of course, people were having a sing-song and a drink, but the mood was good. And then to compact everything, the Metro went down. It took me three hours to get to the game. Three hours it took me. Now, part of that's on me because I got ejected from the Metro like everybody else. And this fella says, get on the C13 bus. So I got on the C13 bus and...

the wrong way and I'm looking at my phone and it's going away from the stadium and it's getting out on the bus and the bus is packed because the metro is not working and I'm like I don't speak French and start speaking to these two girls who start helping me out and they say look get off the bus when it finishes walk back right down the hill you'll get great views back to where we've started and then the whole thing just took me took me three hours it was a complete mess this stadium is miles out of the centre and

You're not the only one who had that experience. We had Matty getting in touch on email. Thank you for doing this, Matty, when you were away. He said it took us over two hours from the city centre to get a wristband, then get into the ground, an hour locking after the game, and who knows what after that. Real Sociedad was the same. The more awareness is made, hopefully they'll bring back collections whenever we're next in Europe. And then he's followed up saying they were tear-gassed five minutes after full-time as well.

So I don't think the experience for the fans has been great all round, really. And safe trip back to you, Matty, as well. It's been a complete administrative nightmare. I think it's two collection points in the City of Lyon to get these wristbands. The queues are not speedy. And when the Metro went down, there have been some shuttle buses take people to the stadium as well. And they have not been speedy either. We should...

give them credit they sang their hearts out oh the atmosphere is spot on and it's a nice stadium fantastic and the man on the street they're nice they're decent people but we have to flag these issues as well I was the only English person on a bus to the ground and I'm hearing all these phrases in French believe it or not les rose beef anglais and I'm just keeping my head down thinking if I'm asked there now it could properly come on top walking through town earlier today to teenage ne'er-do-wells

pointed to myself and some associates and went, "Manchester, fish and chips." Which I thought, yeah, okay. - That's not bad, is it? - Not bad in sort. - I've heard worse. - People, fish and chips. - Yeah, fish and chip shops are better in Manchester. I can say that now as a Southern convert. Danny Rose is right.

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Let's get back to the game then. I mean, fundamentally, a 2-0 draw away from home in a quarterfinal of any European competition is a positive result to take back to Old Trafford. And actually, the performance like I was getting at before, Andy, I feel similar to Real Sociedad in that we should have won the game away from home, but I feel confident they'll get the job done at home. Do you feel the same? Yeah, I mean...

At half-time against Real Sociedad, I wasn't confident, so what came after that was really encouraging. This was a decent result, and the result in San Sebastian was a decent result as well. Josh Xerxe has started scoring at every away game, and that's going to carry on right the way through

He's had three goals in 23 games and two of those goals have been a crucial one away from home against Real Sociedad and now a crucial one away from home against Lyon. It should have been even more crucial, shouldn't it? It should have given us a lead to take into that second leg.

It should have done, but United can win this, but the fans have got to be up for it at Old Trafford. It's a big, big game at Old Trafford, a really big game. The fans, it was brilliant here tonight and it's got to be half brilliant at Old Trafford because we know that this United team is far from being a great one.

But we did see some good encouraging bits tonight. Bruno Fernandes is a better player than anyone else on that pitch. There's not a lot of pace in the Lyon team, but they've got some really good, quick-fitted players. How are you going to pronounce the Georgian, lad? I can't. But when he ran towards goal, that was brilliant. That was a brilliant piece of skill. It was fantastic. Wasn't it? It's not that difficult. Go on then. Mkhitaryan.

that sounds difficult when you got up at 5 o'clock this morning mate and you've been travelling for 8 hours but anyway he's decent him to go back on Xerxe his introduction for Hoyland was really interesting because he seems to be developing a nice bit of playing chemistry with Bruno Fernandes they've got some really nice one touch football there brilliant assist you bring on Mason Mount you bring on Mainu

And then the complexion of that front attacking unit. They can play so much quicker. They can get through that final third way quicker because it's just four touches of the ball where...

Previously, it's five, six, seven, and it's bouncing out. I think Hoyland had another disappointing performance. Yeah, he did. I'm not sure what's going to happen on Sunday, but I think for this second leg, I wouldn't be surprised if Xerxe is given a spot in and around that leading line. I was interested in the starting line-up because that was the same team, obviously, that he named in the Manchester derby as well. And that felt like, even though there's players still coming back to fitness and there's a few things to consider on that front...

It felt like he was getting close to a settled 11. But I wonder with Hoyland's performance and Xerxe's impact off the bench again, because he did similar in the derby as well in terms of having probably United's best chance in the second half to win the game.

whether he forces his way into the 11 for the second leg. Because in terms of Hoyle and Carl, I mean, 10 touches in the first half, which is not a lot, but those 10 touches did bring two glorious opportunities to score. And he actually was shooting in the game, which I know is something that you keep your eye out for. Yeah, his first shot, lack of pace, lack of precision, but it was better than...

Not shooting. And then his header was a bit off target and set up Casemiro for an overhead kick, which was quite wonderful. The concern I'm having with Hoylen is he used to make double movements inside the penalty area, particularly when it's going towards the near post. And he's not doing it with the same conviction or intensity that he did. He's playing without conviction. I'm not sure there's any conviction in his game. I think it's a confidence thing, isn't it? I think it's a product of the run that he's had.

But he has to find it again. And that's so hard. It's so hard to keep making that run, even though you have no guarantee that ball is going to be delivered in. It's so hard to keep making that run, even if your first shot goes out for off target and whatnot.

Is that the shot he dragged wide? Yeah, the shot he dragged wide. And there's a good chance that. There's a good chance. And there was another time when he got the ball down in the corner down there and he just kicked it out. And it comes back to confidence. And I still think there's a player in there. I really do. But I realise we can't be chatting in eight years' time when he's like 30 and he hasn't scored. Is there a United player in there? Um...

I wouldn't write that off either. Okay. Because I've seen so many players leave and I'm not going to let this go towards... You're going to say Diego Fallen, aren't you? No, I'm not. Anthony. Oh, okay. But, you know, the culture at the club has been a part of the reason why some players have failed. The thing with Anthony, though, Andy, what he's doing at Real Betis only makes me think that...

That's great and let's hope Real Betis or someone in La Liga sees how well he's doing and buys him. I don't actually feel like what he's doing at Real Betis is any sort of guarantee that he'll find that sort of form at United in a way. There's no guarantees in anything. I think Anthony... I spoke to someone who knows Anthony very, very, very well and he just said he's a good player.

He was a victim of personal circumstances when he was at Manchester United and also the culture around him at the club. And there's two reasons there that I've got no reason to disagree with. It kind of suggests he did nothing wrong.

that verdict though doesn't it no because he did some of it some of it's on him just like some of this is on Hoyland as well it's the okay watching Anthony Ferrell betters he doesn't look like a drastically different player for the one at Manchester United and he's playing against teams that are affording him more time and space to cut inside on his left foot and do the shot that we've seen him do over and over and over again for United or try and do before shanking it into a player or whacking it wide at a far post and

Ameren before...

this game yesterday said, he goes, I have the data and we talk about maybe football's not that intense in the derby, but I've seen the data and the intensity levels between the Europa League matches and the intensity levels between the Premier League matches are completely different. And that extra second that you get on the ball in the Europa League, completely different game. And this is why I think Amarin is really, really keying in on this competition, not just because it can save your season, because United have gone from being a soft-bellied team

in the Premier League that can get bullied by Crystal Palace, that can get bullied by Bournemouth, to a team that can actually hurt people in the Europa League. We're beating it, mate. I quite enjoyed when Mason Mount... They played well in the Europa League this year. They played well. I quite enjoyed when Mason Mount had a bit of afters in the second half there. I was like, oh, a scrap. Oh, look, who's going to run in and back everyone up on a scrap and Xerxe leg down? Here we go. There is that idea of a United team that is...

coalescing around Amrin. Oh, good word. What does it mean? Coming together, settling as it is. Bruno Fernandes is going to be here until Bruno Fernandes decides he doesn't want to be here anymore. Joshua Xerxe has now, whether he's going to be a starting player or coming off the bench, he now seems like he's down for the fight. Hoyland, I don't know. Onana, I don't know.

Dallo, he's definitely going to be in high-fiving people. Great. The problem with Hoyland and Inanna is they both cost a huge amount of money and were bought relatively recently. And Mason Mount, all in the same summer. And Mason Mount. 170 million's worth, was that? Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, just one point back to Anthony. He got the best ratings at the weekend against Barcelona. And that Barca team are absolutely brilliant. And whether he comes back or not, that helps his stock. That makes him... People are going to be interested in buying him. He's tearing up at Betis. And we can say La Liga's weaker, stronger, whatever, whatever. But...

Anthony Martial when he went there didn't do nothing of the sort so the fact he is doing it if Betis had £50 million they'd use it to buy Anthony How's the crowdfunding coming on with Isco? Betis just don't have £50 million With Hoyland actually I interviewed him on Monday I've interviewed him a handful of times across his time at United and

There's a character there and I like the character. I spoke to him about the criticism that he's had about how being the Manchester United number nine is, what it's actually like to be him and for his age and for his level of experience. Because don't forget, he'd had a couple of years as a senior striker before he joined United, but it wasn't like he had...

five years worth of top level experience before he came and it was a lot of money and you know Gasparini himself said he would have liked to keep him from another year because he thought there were two or three things

he hasn't quite got... Yeah, and he's having to do this now with the greatest of scrutiny. There aren't many positions where you're facing greater scrutiny than the Manchester United number nine, especially this season and the way that the campaign's gone and the lack of goals and everything else. And he just seemed very mature and he seemed very level-headed and it gave me some belief that he can emerge from the form that he's got at the moment, but...

No question. There's one thing where you're going through a derby and not shooting. There's a very different one where you get a chance like he did early on tonight and snatches at it. So...

that's quite a clear distinction, really. Just going back to Mason Mountcar. So that's three games off the bench for him now. He's been in the squad for the last four. Main, who obviously got his first action since the start of February, was involved in the build-up for the goal for Xerxe. Shaw's been on the bench the last two games. So there's more depth. The bench looks better. There's a bit more...

option for Amarant to change things off the bench and he took that tonight. He did a good job of his changes, I think. He absolutely did. I know Eddie Jones, former England rugby coach, stopped calling him substitutions, started calling him finishers, which Gareth Southgate nicked for the Euros. I'm not saying Mount is going to start

these games but I think some of these players now are going to probably be Amarant's finishers now for a little bit until they can properly prove they can do back-to-back 90 minutes. Mason Mount coming off the bench for 30 minutes, Bruno Fernandes dropping deeper after Manuel Garty's been snapping into tackles and earning a, not customary, but, you know, becoming, yeah, becoming customary yellow card. I think that works. This Bruno Fernandes experimentation, recalibration in central midfield, I am,

My eyebrows are flying off my forehead. I didn't think he could do it. Didn't think he could do it. I thought Bruno Fernandes turning with the ball, dribbling with pressure on his back. He used to hot potato all the time. But he is just getting a bit more comfortable. He's embracing it, isn't he? In those deep areas. He is. And it's... I'm stunned and shocked for words. And it's just a really nice plan B to have of Kasich. Well...

Casemiro in this new role where I think it's particularly in the first half there were two or three bits where United were out of possession and I'm sort of elbowing Andy and going look at Casemiro look at Casemiro he's not got to run more than 10 yards if he needs to make a tackle and he's like yeah I get it I've got more intelligent people in my phone than you Kyle text me the same thing

And that's good. Towards the end of the first half, game gets a bit stretched. But don't worry. And I think this is the thing. Damrin's saying that he's learning to use Casemiro better. He also said something similar about Mainu in the pre-match press conference as well. So the team is beginning to make more sense now.

The team also, you're looking at them going, oh, that's a hole that needs to get filled. That's a hole that needs to get filled. That's a hole that needs to get filled. And I think one of the issues and concerns and why I'm not confident about the second leg is that the things we've got to talk about a lot going into next Thursday is how do you solve an issue in the attacking penalty area and how do you solve an issue in the defensive penalty area? Yeah, and now obviously...

The key areas, aren't they? Both boxes, as the old cliche is. In terms of the other quarterfinals, Rangers drew 0-0 with Athletic Club at Ibrox. They were down to 10 men early on, so in some ways that's a good result for them, but a bad result heading to Bilbao for the second leg. Spurs drew 1-0 with Frankfurt on the other side of the draw and a brilliant win for Bodo Glimps as well. 2-0 against Lazio, which is a bit of a turn-up for the Bucs, so we'll see how the

Second leg's go next week. Obviously, United have to do their job first before we take too much interest in those other ties. But all of them are poised finally, or finally poised. I can't remember what we decided for that particular term. Right, ahead of that second leg against Lyon, we are going to record a special edition of Talk of the Devils Extra.

All about, and we're hoping that this brings some positive energy going into next Thursday, all about some of the great European nights at Old Trafford. We're going to hear from some of the people involved in those performances, but we also, of course, want to hear from you as well. So get in touch with your favourite memories of European football at Old Trafford. I must stress, at Old Trafford.

What's your favorite night? What are the great European nights that stand out to you straight away? Put extra in the subject of your email and we'll include the best ones on the show. Devilspod at theathletic.com. Get involved. Business taxes. We're stressing about all the time and all the money you spent on your taxes. This is my bill?

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Okay then, before Manchester United and Leon Lockhorn once again in the second leg of their Europa League quarter-final at Old Trafford, there is a trip to St James' Park in the Premier League this weekend that feels like it's just getting in the way of things, Carl, doesn't it really? Um...

Yeah, that noise sums it up. You want to play new cards. So Ameren keeps talking... I need to be careful here because I keep saying Ameren keeps talking about physicality. One of the reasons why he does is because I keep asking him about physicality. So let me... Ameren keeps answering your questions about physicality by saying... Yes, by giving quotes about how you've got to just be scrapping, claw your way. And if you are, of all the teams to play, just after you've been away at Europe...

Newcastle is not the one not a trip up there no not a trip up there not against that Cerberus triple headed beast of the midfield that is Bruno Guimaraes Joe Ellington and Sancho Tonali that's going to be used to play here Guimaraes he did he was fantastic that's not going to really be a football game and if well if United start winning the football game Newcastle are going to try and turn it into a hockey match mass rotation Andy

I don't know. I do know that the first half hour against Newcastle at Old Trafford was probably the lowest point for Ruben Amarin. There's been some real horrific results against Newcastle United, not just for this manager. I remember Solskjaer's team getting beat there. The Longstaff game. Yeah, who got beat 1-0 by Matty Longstaff?

Yeah, there's been a few. There was one at Christmas. That's when I first saw Laurie order a cocktail. And Newcastle hadn't won in like six years, but they still won against Manchester United. They've just won a trophy, the first one since ancient Greek times.

They're obviously buzzing their heads off. They're 15 points clear of Manchester United, the Geordies. If they win this weekend, they're guaranteed to finish above United for only the second time in Premier League history. The first time was last season. If I gave you a shiny penny to put on who's going to win on Sunday, are you going to put on Manchester United winning? I'm not a gambling man. There you go. That's the correct answer. Newcastle United are in the ascendancy. They don't have...

you see I'm rattled here rattled talking about them it's more than just their combative midfield it's more than just the fact they've got a player with the quality of their Bruno in deeper century midfield there it is as well he's for me the best striker in the Premier League right now if not the best striker in Europe I think he's a joy to watch

They've got too many players that I wish we were playing at Manchester United. And I didn't really grow up thinking I'd be saying that about Newcastle United. No, that's true. Just in terms of the record at St James', Andy, of the last eight, Manchester United have won two, drawn two and lost four.

So very mixed, but only won two of the last eight trips up there. I mean, in some ways it doesn't really matter, does it, because of United's league position. But I suppose there is a sense that they have to try and maintain some momentum or some sense of spirit and confidence going into the second leg against Lyon. You certainly wouldn't want United to get absolutely battered.

on Sunday and then obviously then have, you know, there's already a blow of conceding that goal late on for a two-all draw. I'm sure when the players wake up tomorrow and reflect on it, they'll feel better than they do while we're recording this podcast. But you still need to keep

They'll spur it up, don't you? From Acorns, if you get a win at Newcastle United, then the mood lifts up 15%. We're going up there on Sunday, aren't we? By the time that game kicks off, it will seem like it matters, even though the focus is clearly on the Europa League. I don't know how many changes he will make for it. It's not really his style, is it? He tends to go...

pretty strong i'm not that confident going up there because they're they're they're a decent side i can't believe i've just said that but they are they are i actually think they've actually won a decent side i mean the the fifth on goal difference behind chelsea with a game in hand and all the teams in the top five fight and we know now that obviously there'll be five teams from the premier league qualifying for the champions league i mean

they're sort of a team for United to aim towards again, aren't they? Which is a measure of how far United have fallen this season and last season as well. What about the goalkeeper then? Let's circle back to that. Do you start Bayern Dier at St. James' Park, Karl? If nothing else, to take Onana out of it? Or do you keep faith with the Manchester United number one or 24, whatever he is?

I think Bayern D is actually number one. Bayern D is wearing the number one. Figuratively speaking, do you stay with the Manchester United number one being the number 24?

Amran straight-battered the questions about what happens next, gave a I don't know, and gave a I didn't talk to him after... Was that in the press conference? Yes, after what happened. So he said, I don't know what happens next, but tomorrow we have to go to work. So that's not him backing him, is it? That's not him sitting there. I sort of thought he was going to back him because in the post-match interview he said one player's mistake is the team's mistake, but then he stopped short of...

reminding everyone of Onana's quality or whatever manager's doing, those sort of circumstances. It can happen. If you play football, you play a lot of games, you can make mistakes. If you look at the season, I'll just end with that quote. And it's that thing of, I didn't see him. I didn't see him, to be honest with you. I used his minutes to try and calm down and I come here to say the right things. It's normal. I felt the dressing room was really quiet because we drew away. In Europe, that's always hard. The team is suffering and we need to change that. So that's not...

Andre Onana has played more good games this season for Manchester United than bad games and we need to get round him and don't worry about it. The door is open for Bayern to start. Or does he double down, stick with him, release Onana to the media the day before the game, Onana comes out and says, never actually rated Newcastle United, don't know what the big fuss is about them being well supported.

If you look in your history books, they had a crowd of 10,004 against Oxford United for a league game, no less, as recently as 1991. Anyway, my name's Andre Anana from Cameroon. If you've got anything to say, I'll be in front of the Gallagate or the Leases or whatever you're calling it at the moment. Now you've not got Sports Direct sponsoring you, bring it on. And then he has a Schmeichel-esque performance.

Spike Lee 96, Cantona, St James' Park. This is the joke that brought me my first laugh in about an hour, so thank you, Andy. No problem. It's been a long day, mate. It's been a very long day. It's been a long, long day. It'd be funny though, wouldn't it? It would be funny. It would be great if he just came out. Yeah. And he just says like, Sunderland are the big team up there for me. Andre Nona needs a big performance and he needs to have one sooner rather than later. Do you throw it in when you're up against a Newcastle team that...

can and probably will bully you on Sunday at a time where and I saw it after Arnano conceded the first goal when Arnano concedes a goal from an error teams go have a pop see how he reacts and it got better steadily in this first leg Tolisso the Lyon captain had a little dancing dribble and then shot Arnano straight at him and that's the sort of shot that he's most comfortable with that's not an insult

And he builds from there, and I think he will probably need that sort of "I need to make two or three decent solid saves and then build my way back up."

I don't think Newcastle is a good avenue to put that in. No, it's a tough one. It's a tough one. And this is why I'm not a football manager. Amarant's got to figure out, is this a way to win? It's an hard one. The other side of it, Andy, as well, is that Altai Bande has not played that much, has he? Okay, he had a great performance at Arsenal, but he was at fault for one of the goals in that game. He didn't have a great performance in the Spurs League Cup tie, did he? We don't really know fully...

what we've got there. I noted in a press conference a week or so ago that Ameryn said that Biondeer's quality in training, I presume, in the matches that he has played has made him feel differently about needing to strengthen the goalkeeping department further. I'm not saying that's about Biondeer being the number one necessarily, but it's still a bit of an unknown quantity. So it's not like you're bringing forward

a Sergio Romero, for example, who would have been an option in the past for United or even the sort of Lindegaard-De Gea situation there was all those years ago. That's because there isn't that situation. There's a very clear number one and two. And if he gets dropped for Newcastle United away, that is headline news because it's hugely significant. And if he's starting to get targeted by opponents, that's a really bad place to be. But you can also come out of that. David De Gea was targeted for his first six months. And just as it seemed...

to where people were giving up on him he had a game at Chelsea in February and everything just went bang from then on upwards you know sport can give us that and he's had a really bad few days but he can have a really good few days as well he's never been short of confidence but he's

I feel a bit daft, almost sounding like I'm defending him because he's had an absolute mare tonight here in Lyon. He might be able to take a bit of an example from Joshua Zirk's e-call, might he? Because it was the Newcastle home game where he's taken off after half an hour. The circumstance is not quite the same, but that did look like that could have even been the end of his Manchester United career. It's such a horrible moment for such a young player and he's come out of that recovered well.

And, you know, there's no questions about him. It's one of the qualified, I don't know, qualified successes, if you want to call it that. But it is one of the success stories of this season. Joshua Xerxe pulled it from the brink. There was chatter not on The Athletic about him maybe leaving the January transfer window. Now look at him. His celebration for that goal, what could have been a winning goal, was tremendous. I will say, Xerxe had the fans excited.

after that Newcastle result. Stratford End has never wavered and chanted Xerxes' name throughout and Xerxes grafted and put in big, big shifts. Even when he hasn't scored, you can see the way he's exerting himself and the way he's playing differently to how he was playing before December. He's sharper when releasing the ball. He's sharper when going for looser balls. I'm not sure what the goalkeeping version of that is. I hope there is one.

I definitely hope there is one. It's what the fans' reaction is to him as well, isn't it? Because you don't feel like it's going to be rallying around him right at this moment. That might change. No, this is Friday morning, very early Friday morning. Heads are still hot. After we go to bed, wake up, go for a walk. The sun is shining in Manchester, I think. It has been, yeah. There you go, the sun is shining in Manchester. Not now, it's dark. Yeah.

Go for a nice walk on Friday morning, pick up a nice coffee, and then maybe things will calm down just a little bit more. And then the renewal process can begin. I'm really sorry for sounding so negative and downbeat after a 2-2 away draw in a Champions League. Good game as well. If you're neutral, we're not. There's the verbal slip. In a Europa League quarterfinal. But that's not a bad result. It can be better, but it's not a bad result. And second leg at Old Trafford, Stratford and...

This is on in a way that I didn't think it was on a couple of weeks ago. This is really on.

We've recovered you, Carl. Let's hope we've recovered other people as well. Before we go, just a reminder that tickets are on sale for our tour in the autumn. Talk The Devils Live is coming to Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Manchester and London. You'll know all the dates by now. You'll know all the venues, but the details are in our show description. You can have a look at our social media as well. So we'd love to see you there. Thank you to everyone who's bought a ticket already.

But yeah, if you want to get involved, go and have a look at the options for those dates. For the minute, Carl, Andy, thank you very much. Safe journey back, both of you. And thanks for listening along. We'll see you on the next one. Take care. Bye-bye. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.