Mbeumo latest & Martinez links examined
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This is Talk of the Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. We are back. There's lots to talk about. It's been a week. There's been a new bid for Brian. We'll have the latest on the potential Mbomo move. And there's been a keeper twist as well. Streamer interviews, holiday games, sorry, holiday garms and Turkish delight. There probably was games as well. We'll have the latest on the departures, which seems to be getting weirder by the day. And there's a few other bits to tidy up as well. We're talking ticket rises, Johnny Evans hanging around,

Marseille

Yeah, it is. It's a bit hot. There's a heatwave in Southern Europe. I've not spoke to anyone to find out what it's like in Manchester. It's not reached Manchester, no. No, it's just been in the south of France, in Marseille, which is a good city. Whereabouts? Right in the centre, bang in the centre of Marseille. And it's a gritty place, Marseille. Came through a place called Narbonne, which I worked out was no good if you work it out in Manchester, because Nar means no, and Bonn is good.

And then, yeah, just with my family. Just like having a week not even looking at social media. It's quite nice. I would recommend it just to sort of reset your brain a little bit. Read books and, yeah, see nice places. Nah, social media in Nah Bon. Sounds good. Nah, social media. Exactly.

Yeah. Laurie, you've been celebrating, haven't you? We've seen your social media. How was the festival of Sao Jao 2025? Yes, well, obviously, the summer solstice doesn't just restrict itself to June the 21st. You've got the Portuguese celebration of midsummer that Bruno Fernandes was marking on the 23rd of June. So, you know, this period of the year,

It's my absolute favourite. Obviously, I know all about the summer solstice and the longest days of the year. No, it actually did lead to an interesting conversation with my dad over the weekend when I was like, do you know about this summer solstice? And he was like talking to me in the end about galaxies and, you know. Lawrence, it's a fairly well-established thing. Well, you say this, but did you not see the response? It seems a pretty 50-50 split between people saying, listen, I had no idea what day it was and it was around now.

I thought, you know, very cruel the way that you were, you know, bullied on the last podcast about your... Did your dad know about it, Laurie? He says he did. I mean, but obviously he's listened to the podcast now, so... The people of Scandinavia were outraged. I know. I've got loads of Swedish friends as well. They love it, don't they? Yeah, yeah. But I just didn't... I just... The Silver Solstice, I just didn't know that that was the significant name of it that was specifically the...

date of it but listen I had a fantastic June the 21st you saw me raise a beer in celebration I will be marking it every year from now on well we'll all be in Porto this time next year won't we of course will we Carl? I guess so why not? yeah

Why not indeed? That's where Sao Jao originates from, to listeners that aren't obviously as well-versed as Ian in the festival of Sao Jao. Sao Jao, yeah, something to do with John the Baptist, isn't it? It's their version of celebrating. Don't claim like you know this as well. You've just been Googling it. Wikipedia told me. Exactly. I know United played in Porto in October, but has anyone been around the area in the last year? Somebody could. Pretty interesting. Somebody could make a comment here. Yeah.

The drive from Porto to Braga is a very scenic and windy road. Oh no. Didn't realise you'd been, mate. You'll have to tell me about it. Listen, I don't get out much, do I? Clearly by my knowledge of summer solstices. What is the plural for summer solstice? I don't know, but Em said you're a disgrace, basically. So call yourself a devil and missing one of the most banging pagan festivals going. Do you know what I mean? I'm sorry. Carl did find it amusing that

Producer Ollie did point out in the running order that there may be a slight confusion between paganism and Satanism, possibly. We're a broad church here. We welcome all isms. To be fair to Laurie, he's right. I'd say it's a 50-50 split of people who knew it and didn't know it. Yeah.

Well, it's been an unusual start to the podcast, but why not continue by bringing some actual detail to what's been happening during this summer? And let's get straight into Laurie's story on The Athletic, which broke on Tuesday that Man United have gone back with a second bid for R. Bryan. Yeah, so obviously people have been wondering, haven't they, why are United not making...

Brian and Burmo the next summer signing what's taking so long they put a first bid in quite a while ago now and my interpretation of it has been that there's been talks ongoing sort of the whole time now when does a bid constitute a bid and there's even up to this point some debate from other people within the the terms of this deal as to whether this second bid actually does mean a bid certainly people that were making I think people at United think it was a bid so there we go um

Yeah, but it hasn't been, to this point, accepted, it seems like. So it's obviously not good enough, it feels like, from what Brentford want. They clearly have a price point in mind that's above Matthias Kunja's £62.5 million deal because you look at Mbembe's stats from last season and they are better and he's got more years' experience in the Premier League.

people will point out that he's only got a year left on his contract but Brentford do have the plus one option in their favour so it's effectively two years they could just trigger it so I think that is a fair aspect to give Brent

Brentford the slack on and so yeah let's see how it develops there's obviously interest from Spurs being reported now I'm kind of curious as to the exact extent of it there's an offer people are saying that is exceeding what United's offer has been so how can Brentford accept United's offer and you know not allow

Spurs to have a run at him. Obviously Thomas Frank has gone from Brentford to Tottenham. You might be drawing conclusions that he is perhaps doing a favour to his old employers. It's all a very interesting game. It feels like at this moment I still have faith that this will get done with Mbombo moving to United and I think we're at the point of

you know, let's get him down to the final elements of it. You know, I think there is still a gap, you know, in terms of valuation, but they're obviously moving towards a solution and you've got that pre-season, July the 7th start date. So I think they want it wrapped up by then, but let's see. Yeah, Kyle, you've done some analysis on this and the effect that it could have on Manchester United's hunt for a number nine.

Basically, Mbembeau has made 32 appearances in five seasons for Brentford in that position, scoring 13 times and getting five assists. Mateus Cunha also has played in the number nine role for RB Leipzig, for Atletico, for Wolves as well. He only made six starts there last season, but scored twice. So do you think these two could fill that gap and alleviate the need for United to go out and get a number nine? I know a lot of supporters will be disappointed if that's the case, I'm sure.

Could, I'm not going to say should, I think we're approaching the stage where if Brian does arrive, it will be at a price point that I'm sure rival fans will try and make jokes about and may disagree.

see Brian need to score maybe two or three goals before Christmas before he gets too nervous. I hope he scores two or three goals before Christmas. Well, yeah, someone needs to. You think 60 mil's too much? Do I think 60 goals too much for a player theoretically in the last year of his contract? I want to say yes. However, Manchester United paid 55 million for Mason Mount in the last year of his contract. So I think that... And he actually was in his last year. Yeah, that goes without the plus one option. So I did say that deal was a little too rich for my blood.

It's difficult here in that there's definitely a need for a player, an out-and-out striker, to help alleviate the stresses of Rasmus Hoyt and Joshua Xerxe. However, if the deal for Bryan gets to Mason Mount territory, including add-ons or perhaps even beyond that, you might then need to start selling a lot of players or start going, can we get the best out of Rasmus and or

Not even Andor, and Joshua for the bodies there. So it's tricky. Look, I think Mbwemo, Mbwemo, Bermo, all three in pronunciation. I'm very sorry. Big Bri. I'm sure Big Bri will be a success for Manchester United if he becomes a Manchester United player. I do think he's going to be the right side of 10. But it's options. And I suppose this is the...

a law and interest in him and in Cunha in that we always know Manchester United seasons and the plan going into the season very rarely is the plan in January so if things dramatically change and personnel get injured or hit weird streaks of form the idea that one of these two interiors can also moonlight up front I think that has some appeal as well

Yeah Andy we've talked before in the podcast and we'll talk more later on in this episode about the fact that United need to sell to bring more players in than just these two but

But what effect do you see the signing of Cunha and potentially now Mbembe having on United needing a number nine? I was told a month ago, think more number tens than number nines. And I don't really escape from that point. And that was from people who know far more about these things than I do. I think he's a good player with a good price, with a good age. I'm told he wants to come to Manchester United. I've been told that consistently. And Brentford are trying to ramp the price up. So nothing has really moved on.

we're in the silly season. And at times, fans have been critical of Manchester United for being held to ransom, for overpaying on players. So sometimes Manchester United have just got a hold on Earth. We're in June here. I think that the money is there to bring him in. Beyond the big B coming in, that's when I think Manchester United need to sell to release more funds to possibly bring in more players. So Brentford are doing as you would expect them to. Yeah.

an impasse would have to be broken what solutions can you do the player can down tools the player can have a little strop about it that's where we are at the moment Andy United's pre-season starts Monday July 7th yeah

Are you relaxed about the idea of Big Bri arriving after that start date or would you like it to get sorted before 7th of July? Ideally, it's sorted before. But Brentford probably know that as well and probably use that to ramp up any prices. I wouldn't say I'm ever relaxed in the transfer window because you have this idealised version of what you want and then what you get. And...

what the club hope will happen and does happen is very different. And sometimes the season starts that badly. There's been a few instances in the last 10 years that they pushed a panic button and you find out like retrospectively what actually went on. So only a year ago, I spoke to Daley Blind and after United had started the season terribly, he got a call from Louis van Gaal. We've started the season terribly. We need you now. That was his whole remit. And,

And I know there was a bit of interest in him during that summer. So you can't really prepare for a smack in the face, can you? And sometimes the season just starts. Angel de Maria came in. So you almost get two starts to the season because players have come in before the end of the window.

I don't have a magical solution because the player is contracted to Brentford Football Club and they are under no obligation to sell him. No, we'll have more updates on that. I'm sure Laurie will tell us when the bid becomes a bid, if it's not already become a bid. And if there's any further bids...

I mean, when is a bid a bid? Very philosophical question, Ian. It's almost Shakespearean. To bid or not to bid, that is the question. We're going back into Midsummer Night's Dream here, aren't we? Anyway. Yes, here we go. Anyway, let's talk about Emi Martinez. There's been quite a lot of chat about this over the last few days, Carl. It appeared in the deal sheet on The Athletic, which Laurie wrote up on Tuesday. And...

this is another sort of weird and wonderful quirk of the transfer window this isn't a bid this isn't necessarily an approach or interest or I don't know how exactly to describe it but it's it's United being kept in touch with Martinez's representatives how much do you read into this about exactly what this means for United's interest in changing goalkeeper my interpretation of it

There is a shopping list that United need to get sorted this summer and goalkeeper is not top three. It might be on the list, but it's not top three. And I suppose every football club, that list beyond the top three is everyone else and it's constantly changing.

Laurie did a very good video that's going across socials where he's sort of translating somebody's transfer terms and want to be kept abreast of the situation. What was the translation you used for it, Laurie? That was actually please text back, kiss, PTV. So in the deal sheet as written by Laurie is Manchester United have been

wanting to keep abreast or monitoring the situation for emmy martinez just in touch you know just a just a casual whatsapp wavy hand emoji in january it's like an old facebook poke isn't it basically one of them one of them in january and nothing has happened since um martinez seems to be open to the idea of leaving aston villa although no suitor is

really made a concrete approach. We do know Andre Onana, like the majority of the majority, if not all Manchester United players had a meeting with top brass at the club and whatever happened in that meeting, Andre Onana's on holiday in Burkina Faso at this point in time. There's no moving vans by his house. He's not Googling or like looking at Ubers for taxis to Riyadh for a possible move to the Saudi league. So this is a transfer deal that

It's not even started, and yet there's so much conversation about it. And I think that says a lot more about the very confusing situation at the goalkeeper for United than anything else. I've spoken to our goalkeeping, our resident goalkeeping expert, Matt Podrowski, at The Athletic. So there's going to be a piece on these two people as goalkeepers that will go up this week for the subscribers. But yeah, a real head-scratcher in that there's loads of conversation about something that isn't actually happening.

But the fact there is conversation probably says a lot about how weird it is to be a Manchester United goalkeeper. Yeah. How much doubt do you think there is about Onana's future, Laurie? And is there interest in him that United know of? There's probably a bit of doubt because, I mean, he obviously didn't have a great season ultimately. Although I do think back to the sort of double saves that he made at the very start of it. And you're thinking it's kind of... He's got more clean sheets than he might have from last season. Well, this is it. I mean, my view of that is I don't really know how you...

United could sign a goalkeeper that has just been sent off at Old Trafford for body checking Rasmus Hoyl. And his last appearance cost his team a place in the Champions League. 32 and all the money that they would want Villa. I mean, they do need to sell a player. So that's interesting, you know, for PSR calculations. But he's got like three years left on his contract, Martin. He signed a new contract last summer. So it just seems a weird one to me. I think,

to Carl's point, I think it feels like Onana's pretty relaxed about the situation. I think he's even been in touch with Brian and Burmo, you know, Cameroonian teammates to sort of talk about life at Old Trafford. So, Agent Onana getting in the mix on that. So, that sort of suggests to me that he's plotting life in Manchester still. Maybe he just wants someone to take over his house. I don't know if he's got like a...

Halfway through his rental agreement. That is actually quite a big thing for footballers, isn't it? I think Solskjaer, wasn't Virgil van Dijk living in his house at one point? Yeah. Did Jurgen Klopp live in somebody's house? Was he in Brendan Rodgers' house or something like that? Very strange quirks going on with that, but yeah. But I don't think that's what their conversation was about, Ian. No. So, yeah, but it's obviously one that might come up because obviously it's not been perfect with Onana, but I just think as

Carl's saying there that they've got bigger priorities at this moment in time. I said on this podcast three months ago, I wasn't told that changing the goalkeeper was a priority. That's the only hard information that I've got on it. And yeah, we've all had doubts about Anana because we're watching him play every week.

we've seen his good games and his bad games but I don't know of any transfer that is imminent where he's coming out and someone else is coming back in. I look forward to your article on the comparison, Carl, but like you say, the stats that I've seen going around as well, he made more errors, Martinez and Onana leading to shots in the Premier League last season, more clean sheets for Onana in fewer appearances despite the fact that Manchester United's defence wasn't particularly strong as well so it

Martinez is older. I don't know by what metric you can... You'd probably make the argument the other way, I'm sure, if you picked out different stats. But one thing this did sort of bring into my mind was the impact that the Africa Cup of Nations could have on Manchester United's season next year. So we're talking about Onana and we're talking about the potential signing of Mbomo. Both, you would think, would be appearing for Cameroon during the tournament. There's also Ahmad. There's also Nusayah Mazraoui as well, who would be expected to be involved in

There's been talk about interest in Victor Osserman as well. So, I mean, how much is this a consideration, do you think, Carlo, or needs to be a consideration for United coming into this season? Because if the tournament goes from the 21st of December through to the 18th of January and Cameroon versus the Ivory Coast is the final, say, I don't know how the draw's worked out necessarily. But that's six Premier League games. That's the third round of the FA Cup.

But that's a potential first leg of a League Cup semi-final as well. It's a good chunk that players could miss. I think it's a footnote rather than an alarming consideration. But it's something you do keep in the back of your mind. There have been times where Manchester United haven't had any African players. And there have been former professional football players who have accused United or other top Premier League clubs of swerving signing African players because...

They have to go to AFCON every two years. I think that's less of a halt or impediment as it used to be. There are a number of players now that speak about how important going to AFCON is. Although you did use the term assume, and having watched many an AFCON tournament, that's the one international football tournament you shouldn't use the word assume for anything. Well, somehow I think Onana missed one game last time, didn't he? And it was Newport County in the FA Cup. How Ten Hag managed that, I've no idea.

He asked for extra dispensation and, I mean, he got a private jet, didn't he? So he could sort of fly immediately from Manchester United games so he could get over to represent Cameron. Afkwen is very often a movable feast. Afkwen is also just a brilliant celebration of football. So I wouldn't, I mean, it doesn't sound like

The fact that Brian maybe at AFCON is putting United off spending however much money on to him. But yeah, definitely something you need to think about. Also does raise the question of buying Deer's position because he's a player who hasn't really grabbed the ball by the horns in his time, in his matches where he has been in.

starting goal as well so maybe if you are talking about goalkeeper recruits you want to get a better number two a different number two if not better but different if that makes sense never mind grab the ball by the arms he didn't grab the ball with his hands in a couple of times i've never watched him play he did have a few decent games i think he did that's why it wasn't given in that final game you'll find andy so yeah i've gone i think

It's more interesting. We might be playing it down a bit here. It's been staged in Morocco. If you play for Morocco, it's a huge deal. You look at someone like Mazraoui. He was near ever-present for Manchester United last year. All the players we've mentioned are playing for teams who will be expected to reach the last stages of the competition. Big, big deal in Morocco. They're building...

huge new stadiums for it. It's a really strong football country as well. Yeah, I suppose we can just be glad that Amrabat has now left. So that's got another worry that we've got. But I think it's a big deal. If there's one person I know who would know whether Morocco were building new stadiums for the upcoming Africa Cup of Nations, it's Andy Mitten. He doesn't disappoint, does he? They're not just new stadiums. They're some of the biggest stadiums in the world. Honestly, it's...

I fancy going basically I can tell I hope Masraoui and Anana have got room on the private jet that's all I'm saying

When pro defensive end Cam Jordan isn't running after quarterbacks, he's running his own businesses. He sat down with Microsoft's Jessica Hawk to learn how AI can help. Being innovative with how to have success and how to formulate that success. That synergy between AI and a business come together. It's like coach's game plan as well as the player. AI is creating a perfect plan and it's the business like, hey, we have this imperfect solution. Let's meld them together and see what happens.

Ready to race your AI game? Find your winning edge at Microsoft.com slash challengers.

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OK, well, if you thought Manchester United's summer transfer window and the lexicon associated was confusing, wait until you hear about how Manchester United's women's side are expected to qualify for the group phase of the Champions League. It's a brand new format this time around for the tournament itself and also for the qualification period. The draw's taken place for at least the second qualifying round where Manchester United are concerned, and their first game in that will be against PSV.

But they're in a group. It's like a mini tournament, which is all going to take place in Stockholm in Sweden at the end of August. What Manchester United need to do, they need to beat PSV. Then they'll come up against the winner of Hamabi and Metalist, Kharkiv. That then decides whether they progress to the third and final qualifying round, which will then face a more traditional knockout game over two legs to reach the group phase, which, of course, Manchester United have never done before.

However, if they don't win any of those matches, they'll probably go out of Europe altogether. But if they win, say, one of them, or they manage to pick up some points of some description in this group phase, they then have a chance, potentially, of qualifying for...

a new tournament, which is the Women's Europa Cup, which has never taken place before. Now, I hope you're still following. I'm finding it difficult to even explain it, to be honest. Maybe once it all plays out, it'll become a lot clearer. But there has been criticism, Kyle, previously of the old format. Of course, United went out in qualifying against

PSG a couple of years ago. Mark Skinner very outspoken about how that didn't seem right at the time. Is this the solution? It is a solution. Yeah. This is very much in UEFA...

When UEFA try and problem-solve competitions, they tend to... Just make it more complicated, right? Make it really more complicated than throwing three or four extra games. And parachutes for the bigger teams, which was sort of Skinner's point, I suppose. Very much so. So I was there for the first leg of the qualifying round against Paris Saint-Germain. That was a 1-0 draw. Skinner was pretty annoyed when he was asked about the fact that he was... that United ended up playing one of the strongest sides in France this early on in the tournament. I mean, that's...

United versus PSG is a game that could probably have been a Champions League round of 16, if not quarterfinal title. And there it was in a qualifying round. They went off and lost the second leg in Paris at a time where Paris had all the bedbugs, if you may remember that one. This is a very, very head-scratching tournament. The fact that it's happening later August, so after Euro 2025, where quite a few United players will be performing there as well...

You do run into the international tournament hangover risk as well. PSV Eindhoven are no slouches in the ladies' Eredivisie. They finished second. I think it was only on goal difference. That's right. FC20 as well. So again, really difficult team. But if you get past PSV Eindhoven, the next round, in theory, you should be the favourites for that one. And then everything's plain sailing. This introduction of the new Europa Cup as well means there is some

revenue stream, some option to rotate the squad, but also if you are going to Leeds Sports Village quite often, you are going... One of Skinner's to-be-confirmed and big question marks over him as a manager is how he rotates a squad. Normally, his last two or three seasons in charge of United, he works with 17 players, picks a pretty consistent starting XI all the time, whereas if they do make...

either one of these tournaments. He is going to need to get better at using the 23 or so players available to him. So, loads of challenges. I hope I explained that. I'm a little bit more confused now I'm finished speaking, but that's what this tournament, tournaments and matches are. Yeah, it's bewildering, isn't it? I'm sure it'll become clearer as we get closer and there'll be analysis later

on the Athletic on that at the time as well. Let's talk about another story, Johnny Evans hanging around in a youth development role, Laurie. Can you explain what that role is, please? Yeah, so it's essentially loans manager, really. So Les Parry did the job for the last couple of years before he left in November 2024. And so there's sort of been a vacancy there. And

I mean, I don't know if it's the Andy Mitten campaign that's been going, but, you know, being able to keep Johnny Evans at the club, I think people are pretty happy with it. I mean, when I posted it on Twitter the other night, it's gone more viral than any other post I've done for ages. So that shows the power of

of the man and how people regard this as a 10 out of 10 appointment, I think. Well, I heard that 67 minutes of the 70 minute conversation he had with Omar Barada was telling him that he needed to keep Johnny Evans around. Listen, you've seen an interview with Omar Barada and Andy Mitten, and then a couple of weeks later, Johnny Evans gets a job at Man United. Now, we're not saying that those two things are linked, but...

They don't happen in isolation, I don't think. But on a serious note, I think it's an interesting move because it's a pretty meaty job to be travelling up and down the country, checking in on the players that go out on loan. But it hopefully taps into Johnny's experience as an academy graduate coming through at United at a time when it was hard to come through. You've got, you know,

Sir Alex Ferguson leading the club, winning titles. You've got competition for places all across the squad. So Evan's been able to kind of come through that, know what it's like to play in the pressure of 75,000 fans every week. Know what it's like to go out on loan as well. Know what it's like to go out on loan. And there are, I mean, I'm doing a piece on the academy sort of as a wider bit, obviously with Nick Cox departing and sort of who could United go for in that role? And there's some sort of

details around that. When players go out on loan, there's so many questions they have, you know, even perhaps getting injured, you know, how do they tell the manager in that, you know, they don't want to let anybody down. So how do they tell them? And I think Johnny Evans might be someone that they could tap into there to kind of get a bit of advice. And so, yeah, it's a big role. It's an interesting move. And I think it's a good thing though, that you've got a guy with that much experience, that much intelligence and knowledge staying at the club.

His name was mentioned when I spoke to Powers to Be. Of course it was.

And all I was told was, watch this space. So I've been watching it and Laurie's filled the space. In serious... I think having people like him at Manchester United are a good thing. Bright lad, very important role. Something Darren Fletcher's helped with in recent years. So, look, Ahmad's quite a good example, actually. When he went to Rangers, that was a bad loan from the outside. But it was said to me that actually...

good can come from a bad loan because it makes these players realise the other side of the coin what it's like when the fans are on your back what it's like when you're not getting picked what it's like when the manager doesn't quite fancy you enough and doesn't think you're as good as you might think you are and also it's not just domestic I remember a conversation where Darren Fletcher was looking after Garnaccio when he went to play for

Argentina and a zoom call was set up and it's like you know we're Man United what you're going to do with our player and it's like we're Argentina we're world champions blah blah blah and suddenly Fletcher found himself face to face with I know you're Javier Mascherano and they obviously played against each other they knew each other and at the end of it Fletcher went you used to say you didn't speak English because Mascherano just conversed perfectly in English so you

given how important young players are to Manchester United, it's a very important role in their development because it's pretty normal for them to go out on loan and pretty rare for them just to go right away through without going on loan.

So this isn't quite confirmed yet, Laurie, is that right? I'm told it's been agreed, but yeah, I don't know if it's actually been signed. I would expect something to happen, you know, fairly soon. And actually that's why, you know, this is a big moment that Johnny Evans is retiring. You know, it hasn't actually been officially confirmed yet, this playing career. I think it was,

is it 19 years? Something like that, that he's been playing at the top level, won all kinds of trophies, obviously. But yeah, so I think that's why maybe it's not been officially confirmed that he's retired yet because this has been in the works. And so, yeah, let's see when it actually does get announced. And, you know, it's obviously...

I think most people, I sort of thought if he was going to stick around, it might be in a kind of coaching capacity and learning that way. But actually, this is a more administrative role. And obviously, you'll have to learn new skills. I know he's got a lot of experience, but this is still new territory for him. So that'll be something interesting to observe.

Yeah, it's not unusual for former players to perform this role. I mean, I know that Julian Lescott has done it at Manchester City over the years. So has Andrew Flo, did it at Chelsea for a long time and he did need a lot of administrative skills to keep across all their lone players, to be fair. He probably needed to split himself into about 64 different pieces to keep...

abreast of all their developments. But yeah, it's not unusual to have a player with obviously the experience of being a footballer, someone who's smart like Johnny as well. So whenever that gets confirmed, I'm sure it will do in due course. It's definitely a good thing to have him around. On the last podcast, Andy, you and I jumped back on after we'd finished recording because news broke of Manchester United's price rises for the new season for tickets for the home games at Old Trafford. Just a reminder, obviously this was

The news that the club for the first time would categorise matches and charge more, obviously, for the top games with tickets going as high as £97. Obviously, like we suggested, Andy,

There was a very strong reaction to this news. We literally spoke as we read out the different bits of information that we've been receiving. Now you've had a little bit more time to think about it and react to it. Have you changed your mind at all? No, there's a strong reaction. No one's ever going to celebrate ticket prices going up. I've seen the feedback, feedback.

uh that we've had and also people have got in touch with me so one branch secretary came to me and said i listened to you and ian discuss the recent ticketing issues

What I wanted to say is these increases will have a massive effect on match-going supporters branches. And I think a few people have said that. Thankfully, at our supporters club, I don't think it's fair to name them, we had a majority of season ticket holders. But I have doubts that there will be branches who will put out a business because of this. So it's people who do not watch Manchester United every week.

As I said in the last pod, this is the Barcelona model. Look after your fans who come every single week. If you want to come now and then, you pay a lot more for it. The problem is there are people who would love to go every week but can't get tickets. So they end up paying a lot more. There are people who would love to own a season ticket, but there aren't enough season tickets. Expand the ground, build a new one. I've been saying it for 20 years. The demand is clearly there. I don't know what Karl and Laurie think about it.

I think you hit the nail on the head. And I think it's also when we talk about the demand is there, it's almost two different kinds of demand. So you have in air quotes, local demand, the person who has the money and also the space, time, their calendar, willpower, who wants a season ticket, but can't get a season ticket and wants to go more, but unfortunately can't do it because they're paying loads a bit extra. You've also got the fan who let's say works on a national scale or international scale who, um,

Going to Old Trafford is a once-a-year, maybe once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that now has very legitimate grievance to go. That once-a-year treat is now going to become once every two years because you've increased the price this much. And also because you're not in Europe, the opportunity for me to do that has just gone right down as well. You are correct in that no one is celebrating the increase in ticket prices. No one benefits from this other than us.

an accountant or money person somewhere and that person might not necessarily even be a Manchester United employee right there's where there is increase in ticket prices there are also the opportunity for unfortunate unscrupulous individuals as well so if you've got an opinion please keep sending in it's always really interesting to get a few points from

who wants to go to Manchester United Gaming Spot currently is having problems doing it. Yeah, we had a lot. We had a lot even before we asked for it on the podcast, to be fair, because people did feel so strongly about this. A lot of people getting in touch to explain just how exactly more expensive it will be for them to attend matches next season. Kevin did that. Harry did that. Jono did that as well. We're

One that sort of stood out to me was a comment on your piece on the athletic lorry from Pella and Anna, which said,

It would have made more sense to reduce prices this season and wait with price hikes until the team started to deliver something resembling entertainment. There's a few conflicting opinions as well. So, Keith, I've been a season ticket holder in the past, but now because of other commitments, I only go to occasional games. I'd rather keep the season tickets low to attract a younger local hardcore support and push the price of tickets up further.

for occasional matchgoers. A couple of people agreeing with that as well. It's a complex issue, Laurie, isn't it? And obviously you wrote the Manchester United Supporters Trust describing it as a kick in the teeth for United fans and exactly what they had to say on The Athletic. There's not really been much reaction from the club, though, to the reaction to the announcement, has there so far? Well, no, I mean, they can just sort of plough on because they had...

all those banners in front of the director's box from the people that were being moved for even more expensive seats being put in behind the dugouts. And they had to kind of watch that and they didn't say anything around that. Although obviously Andy asked Omar Barada about it in his interview. So,

That's one of the crux of the issues here with United Sports Trust. They're saying that you've got the fan advisory board, you've got the fans forum, you've got other means of communicating with fans and they haven't done this on this matter in the detail. I think the club will say that, well, we did. We shared prices with you that were actually more than what we've put here. We've taken on your feedback and then we've done the prices that we want to do. And so where does that fall? Is that real agency for the fans? Is that United sort of

giving lip service to having this dialogue with fans, I think it kind of falls probably towards the latter there, to be honest with you. Because ultimately, they've raised ticket prices by a lot, really. I think the thing that gets me is the kind of category B games. You've got the categorizations. It's a standard kind of,

practice across the Premier League so maybe United were always going to go this route but you've got like you know just I mean the only two that are category C are Wolves and Sunderland you know I feel for Wolves Premier League you know seasoned team but they're kind of ranked lower than Burnley for example so the cheapest Presumably Andy thinks that Bournemouth should be in that category as well Let's not provoke him too much but yeah so Bournemouth a ticket home to Bournemouth you know 57 quid is the cheapest that you'll be able to get that for which is a lot when

even by United's own accounts. Well, we get beat 3-0 usually as well. But I mean, last season, the average price for a ticket, including season tickets, obviously that takes it lower, is £41.41. So that's a £16 price rise based on really what you were doing last season. That's a lot lower

of money at a time when what's being offered on the pitch is bad and I can only think that the Glazers are very happy about this development because it's not them that's been provoked into this. Obviously, Jim Ratcliffe ultimately wants to raise the revenues to catch this

that keep sacking up and they're able to kind of still benefit from this because they own the majority of the club, whereas they're not having to take these kind of frontline decisions anymore. So yeah, it kind of, it leaves me feeling a bit

yeah, well, pretty down about the situation because it feels like it's just going to keep going this way. You know, for all the kind of communication and dialogue and, you know, even quite, you know, visual action, you know, by, for example, the 1958 group, these things are still going to happen really, aren't they? So I don't know how you solve that because of the debt that the Glazers have put the club in. Yeah, Andy, I know you want to come in on this, but I just wanted to put Mark's email to you if I can. So,

He said it was noted in last week's episode that Omar Barada accepted that communications around the £66 price increase last season was handled badly, yet the club embarked now on an even worse communication strategy for the new match categorisation with no official comms direct to support us. What do you make of the club either not learning its lesson from the £66 announcement last season or simply not caring about the backlash?

I think they always know that ticket price rise is going to be received negatively. So they put them out when the fixtures have come out and they've gone down the model. I've said it several times now, it is the Barcelona model. And if you think Man United's there, wait till you see some of the clubs in Europe who Man United are trying to compete with. The club are miles away from that. Do you know how much a ticket for the Classico costs on Barca's website?

It's upwards between £250 and £700. For a standard admission? That is a standard admission. But isn't the argument there that Clasico is one of the biggest games in the world, with some of the best football players in the world, and every single time guaranteed people flying all around the world to do this. It's one thing to charge £250 for that. It's another thing entirely to charge north of £50 for Manchester United versus Burnley, which, no disrespect to Burnley, not on the tier of El Clasico.

absolutely you're correct in that there are clubs of the same sort of European pedigree and European history of Man United charging more money but they're also putting on a better product Barcelona are La Liga champions they got to the Champions League semi-finals Manchester United finished 15th

I don't disagree with that at all. Just try and get a ticket for a major European game at a one-off, which isn't even a glamorous match. And it's something I railed against for years because...

When Man United fans suffered from that was when we draw a Spanish team. And they would charge between 75 and 119 euros. And I would write really stinging pieces about this because I feel strongly about it. And I'm like, more than a club, you're taking the piss. Or athletic club, you club with the people in the Basque country. What are you on about? And they're like, what do you mean? This is normal for us. It might be normal for you, but it's not normal for us.

And finally, UEFA relented and put pressure on the clubs. And it meant that the vast majority of Manchester United fans paid €40 to sit behind the goal in Bilbao, which I think is a fair price. I also am really pleased that the £30 price tickets exist for away fans. I think the hardcore fans, the people who go every week...

deserve to be looked after more than any other fans because they're going two or three times a week. It's all right saying I go once a year. Fine, I respect that. But if you look where the fan culture comes from, it isn't people visiting Old Trafford once a season. It's people who are there every single game. They're picking up on the mood. They're starting the songs. The whole atmosphere comes out of that. That Ruben Amarin song,

It didn't come out of someone on their first trip to Old Trafford. And I think you've got to protect, and especially young supporters. I'm not going to draw geographic grounds either, but Manchester United are from Manchester. It's very sad if local people feel that they can't get access to watch Manchester United games. And I think that £66 thing, that was poorly communicated at the time. I don't have an answer to...

When best to communicate, how we're going to give you bad news. The club's argument is we've consulted fans. The fans have got a very different viewpoint to that. Just before I came on air, I interestingly saw that United's share price has risen 40% since that game in Bilbao. That surprised me.

That's nothing to do with ticket prices, but I think it's relevant to mention on a Manchester United podcast. Yeah, it does make me wonder whether there needs to be a different bracket that differentiates people who will attend once in a lifetime to people who attend regularly. Well, there is. This is what the whole thing... I've had people in the last five years come to Old Trafford for the first time, and no one likes to hear this because it's, whoa, whoa, we shouldn't say stuff like that. I can't believe how cheap it is.

£45 for a ticket. You mean within the members, don't you, Ian? So it's 20,000 tickets each game that go to people that are just buying one-offs. If there's people coming regularly and they're part of that group, then there should be some... Because they can't get a season ticket, can they? Exactly. They're not subscribed massively. This is where the problem is. This is where the main problem is. It's someone trying to get on a ladder which keeps getting pulled away from them. And that is a problem. Yeah, it is. It's a complex problem and there's no simple solution for it. And unfortunately, someone's always getting shortchanged.

I know we've got two or three emails in from sports fans in North America going, all of these prices sound really, really cheap compared to North American prices. And, and,

What I can really say to that is that's not a good thing. You're getting fleeced in America. Well, average wages are also a lot higher in North America. So I remember writing a piece for The Athletic about ticket prices in San Diego for the game against Wrexham. Ridiculously high prices. Average $185. And I was indignant about that because I think it's a complete piss take. And I got there and nobody cared. Wasn't even a micro issue. Now, I didn't walk around all 32,000 fans saying,

but it just wasn't even an issue but then again Manchester United are from Manchester they're not from Minneapolis so you've got to look after the people in Manchester it's even more complex because you're in competition with clubs from London where wages are higher where they can charge more a 70 quid ticket at Tottenham is different to a 70 quid ticket in Manchester it just is

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OK, let's talk about departures. If it is silly season, then this week for Manchester United has definitely exemplified that that is a thing and it is a thing that is currently happening because we've had Marcus Rashford being interviewed by a Spanish YouTuber saying that he quite fancies linking up with Lamine Lamal next season.

We've had Alejandro Garnaccio wearing an Aston Villa shirt with the previous mentions player on the back of his shirt and posting it on Instagram. We've had reports of Jose Mourinho giving Jadon Sancho a call. What do you make of it all, Laurie? And is any of this pushing any of these players any closer to being sold by Manchester United, which seems to be the ultimate target of all of this, doesn't it? I think it's part of the world that we're in, right? It's, you know,

players have got their own agency in this they've got their own platforms now they have you know ways of communicating what they feel and clearly they have the number of Barcelona support in Spanish YouTubers called Javi Ruiz who is not

Manchester United's midfielder target from the Basque country. I mean, obviously that tells you what you need to know really about what Marcus Rashford is thinking, right? He obviously, as he did in January, Barcelona would be a dream move for him. It's interesting that he's positioning himself now as potentially a number nine. If Barcelona do sign Nico Williams,

that would seem to rule out a Marcus Rashford pursuit, but maybe not in his mind. But Barcelona weren't able to make the money work in January. Can they do it this summer? I don't know. Hansi Flick has said very nice things about Rashford. I think Deco has as well, or at least said the club are looking at him. So it's clearly a legitimate possibility

outlet for him and this sort of interview is him positioning himself with people with those Barcelona fans they'll probably tune in see how he comes across he came across well he's obviously showing himself training over in I think is it Marbella or Malaga so it's all sort of positive insights

imagery isn't it ahead of this summer because we've got two weeks haven't we until pre-season starts I'm fascinated to know what is going to happen with all these guys that are kind of outcasts really are they going to report are they going to be with the first team group so yeah that's why you're getting these interviews you've got him even replying to Garnaccio's posts on Instagram where he's sort of

secretly put it not so secretly because you know it's going to get scrolled through the carousel you know it's it's uh you know my trick when i put a cocktail you know is one of my lori knows all the instagram tactics doesn't it five pictures and i'm like people will still pick up on this so yeah when you were posting pictures of yourself in your underwear in the gym just to get a cheap personal training session that was just an absolute front and center that wasn't even a very much front and center i agree exactly it's still up there as well if you want to scroll back

No, it's okay. Okay. But yeah, I mean, and Garnaccio, I mean, he's obviously aligning himself with Rashford, who's been kind of ostracised. They were the two players, weren't they, that were dropped for the derby. It's provocative, isn't it? I mean, I think we maybe have slightly different views of this. Okay. I don't know. I'm not...

check with you guys totally but I mean I think say what you think and then we'll disagree passionately I think it's a bit silly I think it's a bit juvenile he will probably be thinking well you've told me I can go so here we go I'm going to kind of you know be that kind of provocateur but I know people that are pretty determined

well versed in the game and have seen a lot and they think it's a bad thing to do they just don't see why you would antagonise a fan base like that and the fans are certainly not taken well to it so whatever rights or wrongs of it with Amarin saying in the dressing room what he did towards the end of the season about him needing to have a good agent or be lucky in the summer to get a new club because he's sticking around I think doing something like this on Instagram is just unnecessary but I don't know what do you think?

I'm not too wound up about Garnaccio doing that. I know this is weird. I've seen a lot of United fans online saying this is a disgrace and he can sling his hook and do all those sorts of things. And I'm just like...

Be bothered. Garnaccio is a 20-year-old wind-up merchant. Is he a wind-up merchant? He's an absolute wind-up merchant. In what regard? Absolutely. And when the team is winning and Garnaccio is winding up rival fans, and I'm a United fan, I'm going, that's great. So when United beat Barcelona in the Europa League...

playoff knockout thing he mocked Pedri by doing binocular celebrations which is Pedri's thing and then tweeted onto the next round of a cup and he does this he does provocative celebrations and he does provocative things on the field against opposition players and when he's a United player you defend him and you go that's quite funny and I've seen rival fans say horrible things about Garnaccio I'm like haha you're getting rattled by a small child and

And now, lo and behold, he's now trying to rattle you as a Manchester United fan.

I don't know why though. Because it's 20! It's against the club, isn't it? It's not really the fans. It will be against the fans. I know that's the collateral. These are the fans who have been behind him for the majority of the time. Certainly in the stadium. Uncle Andy had a word with him about that last season. This is a 20-year-old why not merchant who, I think we can all agree, spends too much time on his phone.

Yeah. As someone who spends too much time on my phone, I am not going to let a 20-year-old who spends too much time on their phone rattle me. So he's trying to rattle you. I'm not going to get rattled. I'm just going to move on with it. I'm not rattled or anything. Why do you need to really not be rattled? This is a football player who's been told he has to leave and is probably going to leave. Why should I care if he's trying to rattle me? So does he want to move to Aston Villa?

No, he's trying to rattle you. That is the objective. I don't think his social media has helped him at all. Yes, I agree. To become a better professional footballer. I don't think his brother's social media has helped him at all.

It wasn't a one-off. There's been seven or eight incidents now. And you're right, Carl. These are minor incidents in the greater scheme of things. But they do build up. Fans do build a picture of someone and they'll go, I'm having him. I don't like him. He's good. He's sensible. And I don't think that Garnaccio, on a pretty consistent basis, helps himself. I just don't. And he is a kid and he does spend too much time on his phone. And I do cut youngsters slack sometimes.

because no one can really relate. Particularly in this era. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. It's incredibly difficult for these lads to play for Manchester United. A failing Manchester United is even worse than playing in a successful one, which has still got the eyes of the world criticising and critiquing every last little thing that you do. I look at a lot of them Ian, and I just don't think social media has helped them. I think it has cost them. I could

probably say seven or eight players where that is the case you know and maybe that's me being judgmental or maybe that's me being from a different era but when I saw okay but when I saw Brandon Williams on a private plane bling bling bling I just thought why why do you need to put that out there what good can come from it because I can tell you what bad can come from it and just think things through look at who ultimately is paying your wages and they are fans and

Fans see things differently as well. There will be people who see Garnaccio's post and go, nice one, bro, which is what my daughter says all the time. Bro, bro. She says bro to me one more time. Your daughter calls you bro? She calls me bro. That is amazing.

If you are annoyed by that post, fine. There are a lot of people annoyed by that post. There was a man older than Andy in the gym the other day telling me how annoyed he was by that post. I'm surprised the man even knew that Instagram existed, to be honest. But he was certainly annoyed. I do think this feeds into that other thing that I keep talking about in that these are players you want gone.

If you think Garnaccio is a dickhead and you want him gone, the best way to get him gone is to not publicly tell everyone that he's a dickhead. Nice shirt, bro. You do need one of these football clubs to come up and pay 50, 60, maybe even 70 million for him. And right now, if you Google search Alejandro Garnaccio or ask a United fan what you think about Alejandro Garnaccio,

you're going to get a really bad character reference. And clubs do this. When clubs are spending tens of millions, any players they're signing for Manchester United, they're going to be like, what's his social media like? What's his backstory like? What's his private life like? What do other managers say about him? And you ain't getting glowing references here, which is one reason why Manchester United want to sell him in the first place. They want 70 million, Laurie, for Garnaccio. That's the quoted price at the moment.

apparently, isn't it? Yeah, that's what I believe. I mean, you know, I'm sure United would say we haven't set a price and, you know, they don't want to, you know,

nail their colours to the mast in that way but that is certainly a fee that's going around you know clubs that are maybe making inquiries so for example Bayer Leverkusen you know you're looking at that thinking could Eric Ten Haag make an approach have a reunion with the kid that he sort of brought through and I think he had ultimately it was hard to begin with wasn't it but I think he ultimately had got on with him you know there's that picture of him talking to Kobi Meynu and Alejandro Garnaccio after the FA Cup final and looking quite sort of paternal but anyway too rich for Leverkusen's blood so yeah on to the next one

Chelsea seems a plausible, you know, potential avenue eventually. I've sort of... I'm going to swap him for Bristow and Kunku, aren't they, obviously? Spoke to them in January, didn't he, Chelsea? They were interested. I mean, and obviously at that point, again, he was available. So, yeah. He was interested. I think he wants... London is an appealing prospect for him rather than going abroad. So, yeah, let's see. But I do...

And as much as I think the post was unnecessary, there is, behind the scenes, there's stuff that will happen to players that they will be thinking, well, the only avenue I've got here is my own account. Yeah, that's true. And he will have been pushed towards the exit door. He didn't want to leave United, I don't think. So that's a factor to just weigh up in all this as well. Yeah, so the Uncunku thing is a red herring or a blue herring? Not necessarily. Royal blue herring? Not necessarily. I think United are making a lot of checks on a lot of players'

another play you might read about on The Athletic after this podcast sorry that I can't say it at this exact moment I just want to feel that hope it's been out there but it's not anything too making its way into your cheek yeah

but I think with Nkunku for example they're asking a lot of questions they're seeing what could work they've obviously got a certain amount of money to spend so can they have some kind of trades in there we're told it could be a separate one if that does get any traction the Nkunku one but yeah I think there's a lot of players out there that they are making checks on I was told about Nkunku in March that wasn't a Man United one either

So that was definitely interesting. They've got interest in a lot of players, but he was absolutely wrong. He got linked to Jan as well, didn't he, in Kunkka? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Ten more weeks of this. Yeah. Ten more weeks of this. Jadon Sancho, Carl, then. Fenerbahce are the latest club to be linked. The Turkish press are getting excited with personal terms being agreed. Phone calls with Jose Mourinho. Is a move to Istanbul likely possible? No.

Is this something to keep an eye on? Do we ignore it? It wouldn't be talking to devils in the summer without a Jadon Sancho section, would it? No. We've brought back old traditions. This one's a really curious one in...

I did a piece not too long ago looking at the clubs where Jadon Sancho makes the best tactical fit. Fenerbahce up there, yeah? Nope, I didn't mention any Turkish club. Working with Jose Mourinho? To which more than one commenter said, why have you not put a Turkish club in there? He's absolutely set for that sort of career trajectory of not great at two Premier League clubs and then you go off to Turkey. Now the thing about Fenerbahce and the thing about

the Istanbul clubs in Turkey right now is there is a lot of noise that is incredibly hard to pass and get to the end of only last week there were some very serious allegations made towards the referee board in the league about how they may or may not be

trying to disfavour Fenerbahce which I'm sure Mourinho is going to definitely use bring up in some of his press conferences as well Sancho to Fenerbahce is a head scratch for me if only because I cannot I cannot imagine Mourinho and Sancho getting along I just can't see those two seeing eye to eye and having a big hug but never say never in this football world

Yeah, I don't know, obviously, the detail of the personal terms and all that sort of stuff. What I do know is that there are still significant tax breaks for players arriving in Turkish football, which obviously used to be a big reason for players to move to Italy. And that's not a thing anymore. That particular tax loophole was closed a couple of years ago. So I think there is an ability for Turkish clubs to offer better packages than some of the European clubs.

Absolutely. Leroy Sane has just signed to Galatasaray and his wages are... The wages he's earning at Galatasaray would make him one of the better paid players in the Premier League right now. Yeah. So you've got the issue of Jadon Sancho's wages, which we've talked about before, and clubs having difficulty being able to offer him anything like what he's earning at Manchester United. But

maybe there is an opportunity there. It won't be the last time we talk about Jadon Sancho. There's a guarantee of that. Critch has got a piece out, which I just want to reflect on as the final thing on this podcast as we reach an hour mark.

I won't keep you much longer, I promise. But yeah, he's sort of balanced out, Laurie, the need for Manchester United to sell these sort of players to be able to improve the squad more versus maximising the value of these departing players. So, you know,

Like I said a minute ago, there's 10 weeks to go. The last time Manchester United, this is startling, sold a player at this stage of a summer window was 11 years ago when Alexander Boutner joined Dynamo Moscow for 4.4 million.

I could not believe that start, but he will have definitely done his research on that to write it, Critch. The club already owes £195.2 million, according to him, in transfer instalments across the next year. So Jim Radcliffe himself said that they owe £89 million in instalments this summer, and that's before they've signed anyone. So obviously now they've bought Matthias Cunha, that'll be even higher than

The financial aspect of all of this is important, but United want players quickly to be involved in pre-season in 10 days' time, to get bedded in for the season starting. The fixtures are tough to begin the Premier League season as well. But they also, if they are going to sell these lads, need to get the best possible deal for Manchester United as well. How on earth do you balance those two things? It's very difficult. It is very difficult. And I think Critch does a comparison between United's sales in the past year

however many years in Liverpool and Man City's and they're sort of five times as big sort of 500 million compared to like 100 million and that's obviously a

of them being successful teams at top level. So people are thinking, well, if they're sort of players that aren't deemed good enough, they might actually be still pretty good because they're actually winning titles. It's a different thing for United. And also, as to Carl's earlier point, a lot of this is playing out publicly where you've got additional reasons. Too much of it, really? Yeah, additional reasons. That can only be damaging the players' values, can't it? Yeah, obviously. Obviously, because you lose leverage. You don't want to make out that you actually want to sell players. You can be adult and grown up about it and say, yeah, listen, we'll listen to the right offers. But,

and then it comes down to the players themselves. They'll have their own opinions on where they want to go and if those clubs don't come to the table early, then what can Man United do? They can't just force them out and that obviously then, again, lessens their negotiation potential.

negotiating ability. So, yeah, I think a lot of these will take time because of the wages that are involved, because of the calibre of clubs that the players want to come to the table. But it's going to be very, as I say earlier, very interesting once the pre-season starts because it's

Ruben Amron talked about the good times are coming and a kind of fresh start and a new beginning and Mateus Cunha obviously represents that maybe Brian and Bruno comes in for that point my gut would be that he would do at that point but then you've still got these other players that clearly he does not want Anthony's another one, Tyrone Alassia we haven't even got on to those guys so yeah there's a group of players there that I do think it'll take a little bit of time to sell. Yeah Enzo was putting the comments to Critchie's piece Andy he thinks

Do you see that being an option for Amarim moving forward? I don't know.

How do you think this is going to play out? Players come back, they start pre-season training. Publicly, the manager smiles and says, I'll be fair to everybody, everyone will be given a chance. They might play some friendly matches, but everybody knows, back channel, the real movements are happening out of public. The club are under no obligation to say anything publicly.

I don't think they would boost the values of the players by doing that. Players boost the values by playing brilliantly against top teams on a consistent basis. Manchester United finished 15th last season. Okay.

Seems like a great place to leave it. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Laurie and Kyle as well. It's been a weird and wonderful talk of the Devils. We've gone on quite a journey over the course of the last hour. I hope you enjoyed it. We'll be back next week with more. In the meantime, let us know what you want to talk about over this summer. Not just transfers, some other stuff, please. Get in touch, devilspod at theathletic.com. But for the moment, thank you for being with us as always. And we'll see you on the next one. Take care. Bye-bye. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

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