The pros and cons of Cunha; Bilbao or bust meets Bournemouth away
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. This is Talk The Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. We're here. Andy and Laurie are with us. It's a strange moment for the club, to be honest. It's a strange end to the season. Still so much to play for.

in some ways and so little to play for in other ways. But on the podcast today, we'll assess the trip to Andy's favourite South Coast club, Bournemouth. We'll also look into some of the summer transfer talk because that's intensified this week, certainly. And we'll be doing our own version of due diligence on the podcast and one of Manchester United's targets. But first of all, I'm not really looking forward to the next couple of days and that has nothing to do with Manchester United playing football matches, Laurie. Are you perhaps referring to...

other work requirements that you've had to do this week in terms of where you might have been last night? Possibly.

Yeah. So where were you? In my car in a car park waiting for something to happen that didn't happen. Well, outside the shops, were you? Sort of getting some early summer gear packed in your suitcase, no? Sort of. I was outside a football ground. Were you outside Anfield by any chance, Ian? Waiting for the potential sparkles and glitter of Liverpool winning the 20th league title in their history? Yeah, I had to leave my house.

quite late to drive there on the possibility that it could happen what a treat that was for you am I glad that it didn't I have no idea because I've got to go again on Sunday they're really putting you through the wringer aren't they can you say no um no I don't think it's your job I suppose yeah no oh

Although I am on holiday for the final day of the season, which is a complete coincidence. I will be as far away as possible in the British Isles, I think, in Cornwall, so there won't be any trophy lift to cover on my end. Just because it's week's half term, you always go away that week. Lucky coincidence. So will you have to interview players or fans or managers? What will you have to do? Yeah, you have to do the whole shebang, right? Yeah, yeah. All of the above. And did you fancy swapping places?

I don't even know what you're on about. No? No idea? No. The football this weekend, Barcelona are playing Real Madrid, that's the biggest game in world football, and non-league's winding down. I don't really know what you're on about, mate. No. Which city have you been in? Liverpool? I was there last weekend, I went to Everton. Good chat with Mr Moyes. The big story in that city is Goodison Park is winding down. Yeah. I don't really know what else you're on about, mate.

You've not read Oli Kaye's piece then on The Athletic? No, he's a very good writer, Oli, but I've not read his piece, no. Okay.

Laurie, do you want to tell him or shall I? Well, listen, Andy, I think he's allowed to live in his little bubble and I think it seems quite a happy place to be, to be honest. I think I'd like to be in Andy's bubble, actually. I know, this is the thing, it feels, obviously we're kind of playing around it and being a bit teasing with it, but obviously Liverpool are going to win the title and it means... Quite depressing, actually, if you really think about it. So in my lifetime, so my first title was 95-96 and

And that's 11 titles that they then won since I was going to matches. I know in my lifetime, obviously, they won the first two as well. So it was just growing up was this idea that Liverpool were there, you know, the greatest success in English football history, domestically certainly, and even in Europe. But, you know, United, could they actually do it? Could they catch them? And then to catch them and then overtake them and leave a little bit of a cushion once Alex Ferguson had retired, you sort of felt...

that's a good place to be and it would be a sort of decent bit of time you know with Liverpool being in different states of disarray that they would actually be able to sort of fight back and even that period wasn't it with you know three years United went without a title could Fergie still do it and then they came back with a vengeance with Ronaldo and Rooney and you know got those five titles to go level with Liverpool and then go past them so yeah I think it's it

does make you kind of consider where United are at at the moment you know another decade since obviously Fergie retired Liverpool were clearly in difficult you know straights themselves after their last title win so the more recent one under Jurgen Klopp so maybe there's some lessons there to be drawn but yeah it certainly feels a painful pill to swallow this weekend.

Are they playing in front of fans this time? Yes, they will be. You're not counting that last one, Andy? Well, there's an asterisk by it. I'd be serious about Liverpool. I can relate to Ian. I was sent to the 2019 Champions League final as a journalist and I've got some Scouse mates and they actually looked after me and it was absolutely horrible. I spent the whole day in Madrid surrounded by Scouse and

sunglasses seller just came out round the corner wearing a Manchester United shirt I was like here we go boys me and my man and it was absolutely horrible if I'm being serious about them the way they have built that team the way they've been run as a club in the last decade the way they've expanded Anfield and

There's a lot to respect about that. They're a massive club. I think Manchester United and Liverpool are by a distance the biggest two clubs in England. You mentioned about your childhoods. They just won the league year after year when I was a kid. And I just thought that was normal and dreamed of seeing Manchester United win the league one year. Just one year in my life. Obviously, we were spoiled Rotterdam.

they've done a lot of things right where Manchester United have done a lot of things wrong I hope that Liverpool lose every single game they play I'm sometimes conflicted when they play against Manchester City but deep down there is a respect for them as a football club and I think United and Liverpool have got more in common

Can't we talk about something else? Yeah, I think we probably should. The thing for me, just before we finish, is I started being a Premier League reporter in 2010. The first year I was too junior to be sent to Old Trafford on the final day. So I was sat watching Stoke versus Wigan when that title was lifted. Then I got to be at Old Trafford as a reporter interviewing the players following United winning the league in 2013. Aston Villa, I was there for Ferguson's pitchers.

pitch side for the last game as well amazing and since I've been at the Etihad for the Aguero moment I've been at the Etihad too many times to mention since I've not had to do any of the London title wins but there's just an element of self-preservation I think the last time I went to work properly as a fan was the defeat to City at Old Trafford that I won't

the scoreline but you know exactly the game that I'm talking about and somehow I had to summon the energy to interview Edin Dzeko straight off the pitch about this historic win for Manchester City and it was just

it's almost impossible. So you just have to try and wear a different hat. And almost, it's like being a character for the day, isn't it, in a way? Compartmentalise. Or just ignore it. I just ignored City winning them. I don't know if I'll be able to do that. No, but I just ignored City winning them. They won a few trophies a couple of years ago and I just totally ignored it. And mates of mine or even other blues go, well, what do you think? And I'd just be like, yeah, it's a decent weather today, mate.

just totally ignored it and that really pissed them off

Although, I was happy to interview Pep Guardiola after his team were knocked out of the Champions League in 2020. There's the flip side. That's the flip side. To be fair to him, he was absolutely superb. But anyway, I'll make this point again. Can we talk about something different? Yeah, let's talk about something different. Let's stir up a little bit of transfer speculation. Let's look ahead to the summer. Let's fast forward past these next few weeks, although the Europa League stuff obviously is still very important, clearly.

Mateus Cunha seems to be the player who has emerged from the social media speculation about how long he was talking to Casemiro and exactly what he said to Ruben Amarin and how many autographs he signed outside Old Trafford. It's actually become something a bit more concrete and there is a potential, Laurie, for him to be a Manchester United player in the not-too-distant future. Yeah, we spoke about it on the podcast on Monday. Fortunately, we got that in before the news developed a little bit.

it's clear that he is their target for that number 10 role. The release clause makes the parameters of a deal clear from the outset. It then also means that if they can agree personal terms with him, that it could be triggered pretty quickly once the window opens on June 1st. And that was the significant part of Monday's news that

have begun with Cunha's representatives and very positive is the reaction that we've been told about between them. So, yeah, obviously there's other clubs that are in for him, but it feels like Manchester United is the one that he is looking towards despite United not having European football, let alone Champions League football confirmed and obviously that's still going to be something that's up in the air.

But it feels like United decided to go ahead with this one because it's, like I say, a move that they know what they're

fee is going to be they kind of get an understanding of the wages as well and yeah it's it's an interesting development like i say still lots of work to do and i wouldn't want to get too excited and absolutely rubber stamp it just yet but it feels like the the noises around it are very positive yeah not a done deal by any stretch so aggregators put your keyboards away um but andy the potential of

Him being a United player, what do you think? Are we in a transfer junkie time already in April? We're getting there, mate. It's only five weeks to go, Andy, come on. Come on. Inject it into your veins. Is this what happens when you have a week when there's no football? Yeah. I think he's a very good player. I thought he was the best player on the pitch at Old Trafford at the start of last season when somehow Manchester United won the game. As Laurie mentioned in his piece the other day, he won the free kick, which led to Sarabia's free kick.

the other day. He signed a new contract at Wolves in January. I was actually there the week after he signed and I got a sense of him as being...

Occasionally a difficult character, I think we can see that, but a prodigiously talented one as well. Manchester United don't have enough top-class players. Beyond Bruno Fernandes, how many of them can completely lift this team? There's a scarcity of that. Age profile is right, I feel. It's all right bringing emerging players through. We can't have a repeat next season of what we've had this season, but

Some doubts about Brazilians, but to be fair to him, he's played in Europe a lot. He was at Atletico. He's played in Germany. So he's already well established in Europe.

When I heard it, I thought, yeah, I would have him. He's the sort of player who would excite me. But United need more than that. And we obviously know what happens in the summer transfer market is subject to which players leave as well. And how Manchester United do this season in terms of the money, whether they've got Champions League football. But if you're him, you know, when I was there, the mood was really bleak around the club.

And there was a feeling that Wolves were going down. And he's one of the main reasons that Wolves are definitely not going down. So if you can catch him with a fair wind... I keep thinking about Cantona. I'm not saying he's a Cantona. You're not the first person to say that to me, Andy. He was difficult. He came with a load of baggage, but he found his place on a big stage. And some players do thrive off the back of that. But I also feel burned by...

being excited over probably 15 different players in the last decade.

Only 15? Maybe even more. The majority of them have just not worked out. So it's a system thing. But I think he would fit the system of Ruben Amorim. If he's allowed to bring players in for his system, then we'll see a true reflection of Ruben Amorim. The risk with that is if you get rid of the manager, suddenly you're left with players who've been brought for a system. And that's a reason that Manchester United have had such a terrible season this year.

But as a player, watching him at the start of last season, thinking, oh my, he's got something. Yeah, and the game at Molyneux was a reminder of that, I guess, as well. I think you're on mute. Workday's starting to sound the same. I think you're on mute. Find something that sounds better for your career on LinkedIn. With LinkedIn Job Collections, you can browse curated collections by relevant industries and benefits, like FlexPTO or hybrid workplaces.

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Let's get a little bit more then on Cunha, the character, the quality that he's got as well, the season he's had. It's been an eventful one at Molineux. We've got the Athletics Wolves reporter now, Steve Maidley, joining us. What are United getting then, potentially, if they were to go through with this deal and sign Cunha? They're getting a talented forward and they're also getting a temperamental forward, which we hadn't really seen a lot of until kind of a third of the way through this season when it started to unravel.

under Gary O'Neill and then the frustration and the whole situation just kind of appeared to get the better of him and he wasn't alone in that but he's obviously the most kind of standout example of it. Yeah, so is it the relationship with Gary O'Neill that you think brought out some of these tantrums? I don't really know another way to describe it considering he's ripping glasses off staff members and headbutting people in extra time. I think it was just the situation. I think he actually got on quite well with Gary O'Neill for most of the time.

And, like I said, he wasn't on his own. I mean, a few seconds before he did that, Ryan Nuri had had a meltdown a few yards away. And then a few days before that happened, Mario Lamina had had a meltdown after the game at West Ham. So he wasn't alone. The whole kind of squad was...

imploding a little bit and Cooney just kind of took it to the next level I guess with the whole glasses in the elbow and the back of the head thing it was just bizarre and then obviously we saw the other one at Bournemouth which wasn't on Gary O'Neill's watch so yeah I'm not sure it was particularly a Gary O'Neill thing I think it's more a Matthias Cooney maybe doesn't handle the frustration particularly well That bodes well for Old Trafford you haven't had any reasons to be frustrated at all over recent times but

Obviously the Ipswich game was Gary O'Neill's final match which was why I was wondering whether it was a dynamic there. Like you mentioned the Bournemouth game was a few weeks later. He's ended up missing quite a crucial part of the season for Wolves when they've been able to get the results that have seen them pull away from safety and be breathing down Manchester United's neck now after the win at Old Trafford.

With Kunja, you said it was a bit out of character. So was there no real sign of this then before those weeks? Is it just a blip maybe in his personality traits? Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say because it's obviously happened twice and twice quite spectacularly. So there's obviously an issue there that he needs to deal with. But it is fair to say that

throughout last season and the half a season before that he had, and even the first few weeks of this season, we didn't see any of it. And he was known to be a really kind of popular member of the group. He was emerging as a leader in the group. Whenever you were at the training ground, his was the voice that you heard more than most. So the players and the coaches...

They knew he was a little bit high maintenance. Gary O'Neill would talk about taking him down for a coffee at the hotel and away games and just having to really coax him to do the off-the-ball stuff because they all knew that he could do the on-the-ball stuff. That was never an issue. But he was a really popular member of the squad. And even the two incidents, there's no excuse for it, obviously, but there is some mitigation. Like I say, the first one...

It was all kicking off around the squad. We had the Ait Nuri incident. We had the Lameda incident. It was all just going wrong and I think it just got the better of him. And then the second one, he was basically playing on in extra time when he really should have been coming off. He got quite a painful injury, but Wolves wanted him to stay on because he was going to penalties and he was their penalty taker. So they kind of asked him to stay on and I think he probably thought he should have come off.

So, like I say, it doesn't excuse his actions, but it does maybe explain them a little bit. Andy, you hinted at it before. I mean, reading some of the responses to the story on The Athletic in the comments section, looking at

the way that United fans are talking about the potential for this deal on social media, there's almost like an appetite for this sort of character in a way than the spikiness. There's a desperation as well. Desperation because the team needs goals. He was at Atletico when he played Manchester United, but he missed those two games in the Champions League a couple of years ago. Not a prolific striker,

but someone who's absolutely a goal threat, someone who is versatile. But he has got that X factor as well, which probably doesn't pop up in XG statistics. I think we all saw that at Old Trafford last season. I think the reaction to him being linked with Manchester United has been very, very positive from Manchester United fans.

Although I'd set that against the fact that any player being linked to Manchester United tends to be positive. Almost every player is ushered in with congratulations and

You have this idealised image of what he's going to do and how successful he's going to be. The problem is that that has not been happening. Laurie, Steve mentioned before about there's no doubt about Kunja's ability on the ball. I mean, 16 goals in all competitions this season for Wolves, 14 in the Premier League, bearing in mind United's highest scorer is Bruno with eight in the league this season.

but there's been a stat that's been doing the rounds this week and did the rounds a few weeks ago as well, to be fair. He is the player who has spent the longest percentage of time on the pitch in the Premier League this season walking.

77.6% of his time is spent walking during games this season. Is that a concern? Well, when I floated this to our stats gurus, Duncan Alexander, formerly of Optus Parish, replied saying it was a very bad use of statistics. I think his point was that, I mean, you look at Messi, right? He probably walked maybe 80% of games, but he came alive in the right moments and used his sprinting. Quite an extreme comparison.

Listen, we're going there. You've named one player. I'm saying we're going there. Because you want to know when he's walking and why he's walking. I'm really intrigued, though, by what Steve's mentioned because you're not the only person... Well done for negotiating that sentence carefully. ...in terms of the off-the-ball conversation that he had with Gary O'Neill. Was Gary O'Neill successful in getting more from him in that regard? Or do you think you just have to accept that with a player like that, he will do it in bits, but maybe he's most...

useful coming alive when he's got the ball at his feet. A bit of both. I mean, O'Neill did definitely get more out of him and there was the famous...

incident when Gary O'Neill appeared on Monday Night Football to explain how he'd beaten Man City and he spent a lot of the time waxing lyrical about how Cunha had screened the pivot and how it was the hardest game he'd ever seen him do off the ball and there are a few examples of that but then particularly in the last few weeks we have seen him revert a little bit to strolling Mateusz Cunha and it's no coincidence that

He missed, I think he went five games without starting, most of which were through suspension. And Wolves had their best run of the season because of that. Well, not because of that, but in part because of that. Because they just worked better as a unit off the ball without him. He does tend to be a bit of a maverick and do his own thing a lot of the time. So, O'Neill got...

lot more out of him. Pereira's maybe got a little bit less out of him in that respect. He's probably the one player who's maybe regressed a little bit under Pereira in terms of his off-the-ball work. He is someone who's open to doing more work, but I don't think he's ever going to be a pressing machine. Well, I'm intrigued by this sort of sequence of games coming up now. Obviously, he started at Old Trafford. It wasn't certain because he didn't start the previous game, did he? Even though he wasn't suspended against Tottenham. No, and I think he wouldn't have started at Old Trafford at

had Jean-Bertrand Bellegarde not been injured. I think they would have gone with an unchanged team. He kind of got back in because of injury. And even at Old Trafford, on a day when you would think he would have been trying to impress, there were quite a few incidents of him strolling back and Jürgen Strandlarsen, who should be the most advanced player, kind of having to sprint back past Cunha to...

attract runners. Well this is my intriguing sort of thought for the next few games like is will Wolves play him all the games because they're like he's one of our best players we need the points still we want to keep this run going will he absolutely commit to those games because he wants to earn this move you know absolutely solidify it or will he be thinking I don't want to get injured so you know I'm kind of maybe not going to go in for that 50-50 tackle I suppose there's not an answer to that but I think we're in a point we've

where they kind of have to accept players that are flawed. They're going to finish between 13th and 17th in the Premier League this season. I know they're a huge club and they should demand the absolute best players. But...

I feel like there's not an ideal solution out there that they can go and get them because they're going to be saying, well, I'll go to a team that's challenging for titles and competing for the Champions League. Another stat that was more useful perhaps was the fact that his 14 Premier League goals have come with an XG of 7.3. So he's massively outperforming the quality of chances that he's got, which is the exact opposite of what United's players have been doing this season.

Yeah, that's an interesting start, isn't it, to give that comparison. Anyone else interested, Steve, in Cunha, do you think? I think Nottingham Forest have had a long-standing interest, but whether they can afford to do it at the level they're going to have to with their PSR, I'm not sure. Arsenal were interested, but...

I think maybe the flaws that we've talked about, Arsenal are probably in a position where they can go out and get a slightly more rounded player than someone with Kunja's flaws. He's obviously got talent. But, yeah, not loads. Newcastle? Yeah, I think Newcastle again.

but we probably depend on who they sell in the summer, which is probably the case for United as well, I guess. But yeah, it sounds like United are very much kind of in the lead on this one.

Yeah, his social media accounts are worth following as well, aren't they? Yeah, although you have to be quick because he quite often deletes stuff not long after he's posted. I think he's quite impulsive, which probably shows itself on the pitch as well. Yeah, he's following his dreams, not yours. Yeah, I'm not sure what he meant by that. And then he kind of got upset when fans tried to interpret it, which is a bit odd when you've posted a deliberately cryptic...

message. Yeah, he was at it again yesterday with a gym selfie, which will be right up Laurie Street, to be fair. He wasn't in his underpants, though, so that was good. Let's get to work. Too much conversation was what he posted yesterday, so maybe another person for United fans to click follow on. Yeah, I mean, he's an interesting character because he's

met him a few times and we've seen him at community events and he's like a lot of the time he's a genuinely kind of warm engaging likeable likeable character but he's obviously got this side to him where he just kind of flips and we've seen it on the pitch and like you said we've seen it on social media where he posts these things and then gets a bit upset that

people try to interpret them when he's kind of left you no choice but to try to interpret it. It's all very odd. But I sound like I'm being massively negative on him. He's a huge, huge talent. I think any kind of decent manager would back themselves to unlock that and it's definitely there. Yeah, okay. This feels like very much an Andy Mitten question that Sam in Wimbledon has sent in.

After reading Laurie's piece on Cunha to United, it made me wonder about other players who have moved from Wolves to United, as it feels like a team we've done loads of business with. But nobody has made the switch from Molyneux to Old Trafford since 1974, and a player named Andy? Jim McCalliock.

Who is Jim McAleog? He's a Glaswegian who was only at Manchester United for about a season. I think Tommy Docherty signed him. Manchester United were going down to the second division. He was there for about a year and Tommy Docherty then sold him and didn't actually tell Jim McAleog that he was selling him. So it's like, oh, right, you don't want me anymore. So he brought me in.

I've interviewed him and he's a really nice fella. What did he say? He said the part of Glasgow he was from was so rough that even the Rottweilers walked around in pairs. I remember that. Quite a few players have gone from Manchester United and played for Wolves.

if not directly. I mean, just off the top of my head, Dennis Irwin went to Wolves. Dennis Irwin's a Wolves fan, you know. Oh, is he? Like a childhood Wolves fan. Found that out last month. Did not know that. Duncan Edwards is from Wolves territory. And at the time he joined Manchester United... Is Dudley Wolves territory, Steve? Can you confirm that? It's kind of border country, I think, between Wolves... West Brom and Wolves. West Brom and Wolves with a little bit of Villa thrown in. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, Wolves could lay claim to being the best football team in the world in the mid-50s. Ron Atkinson was a ball boy, wasn't he, when the Honved played first sort of floodlit matches, European football, all that. Yeah, but Edwards wanted to play for Manchester United or his parents wanted him to. And he actually came up to Manchester with another guy from the area called Gordon Clayton, who was a goalkeeper. They travelled up to Manchester by train and...

And Gordon, I think, only played for the first team a couple of times, but he became my dad's manager in non-league. So I knew Gordon. As a young man, I'd go to away games with him and I was about 10 years old and he'd ask me what I'd learnt at school and I'd say, I've been learning about volcanoes this week, Gordon. And he still had a bit of a...

a black country accent. So yeah, if you're looking for more links with Manchester United and Wolves, there's loads more. I mean, even on a journalistic level, David Harrison, who's the guy who meets you as you go in the door at Wolves now, he covered Manchester United, so he's got loads of good stories about Fergie. Top guy. I realise we're getting slightly sidetracked here. I'm going to save Steve from having to indulge in any of this any further, but it's been brilliant to have you on the podcast. Thank you very much for coming on. Yeah, thanks so much, Steve. Good to see you. Thanks, Steve.

I thought when you were saying links between Manchester and Wolverhampton, you were going to mention the trains, Andy. I thought that's where your mind was going because they actually are pretty good links. You've just opened a can of worms here, Laurie, by the way. You can walk to the ground from the train station. I'm getting excited now. I've done that walk many times.

First time I saw Oasis was in Wolverhampton in front of about 500 or 600 people before the first album had come out at a place called the Wolf for an All. Are you allowed to like Oasis? I'm not going to go and see them this time round, but when they first came through... You weren't being paid to cover them, were you? No. So the story with them was a mate of mine at the match gave me a demo tape and went, this band are from Manchester. So I thought I was properly ahead of the curve.

And then I spoke to a mate of mine, Sid, from the match. I went, I've seen this band Oasis. And he just started laughing at me. And he was really good friends with Liam. And he's like, do you want to go and see him next week? So I went to, drove to Wolverhampton. And yeah, they're all lads from like around the Burnage area. But the first time I did see them, they did blow me away a little bit. I just thought they were fantastic guys.

And that was at Wolves. I did actually have a rail ticket to come back from Wolves last month, but I got offered a lift off a player. So, I mean, what are you going to do to get back to Manchester? I did hear City singing a song to the Stone Roses the other week, actually, which felt like a bit of a twist, to be honest. I heard it as well. I saw him play on Saturday. Well, I saw you guys, didn't I? That's why I heard it, yeah. What was the song? Sometimes I fantasise. Yeah, I think it was. I can't remember. It was, wasn't it? Yeah. You're not going to sing it, guys?

No. I did laugh at City fans, I've got to say.

goading Everton fans about how they'd had points deducted with only one charge and they were basically going we've had non-deducted and we've got 130 or whatever. They were having a go at Villa about the bins as well weren't they which I thought was a nice piece of popular culture. Anyway we're not going to now praise Manchester City fans for singing songs when we've talked about other teams doing things this weekend at the start of the pod we're going to move it back into the arena of Manchester United's transfer business.

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So, Laurie, just coming back to the transfer stuff then, I heard David Ornstein speaking about this topic and he was suggesting that United's potential moves for Kunya, Liam de Lappe as well, are not actually reliant on sales or qualifying for Europe. Yeah, I mean, that is...

I suppose I've not really clarified that in my own mind. I assumed, I suppose, just based on everything that we've known about with the accounts and with the way that United have been speaking, that there would need to be some caution with the finances, given the picture of the club. But it seems from obviously what David's saying and from other information that we're now getting, that actually the

Those two transfers, theoretically, could be done without the need for sales or even European football next season, which would be a pretty major aspect to it all. I guess because you can amortise the transfer spend over the course of the contract. So, for example, if Cunha comes in £62.5 million, then it sounds like a five-year contract, it's £10 million a year, something like that.

But the only aspect to that is that United's cash levels, that's the issue that has been stalking the club for some time. But Wolves are open to accepting installments. We know that. But they do want paying in full in cash. It's not going to be a negotiation where United try and go less than the buyout, a la Marouane Fellaini and then end up paying more. Well, maybe more. I think all the clubs know the parameters, like with the Liam de Lappe.

transfer all the clubs know the parameters including whatever the agent's fees would be and it's just a case of presenting your case and you know talking about personal terms so and I think that's why Wolves are kind of relaxed about the situation in that regard because you know you could kind of class it as tapping up could you you know manager chatting to player off a pitch but they were talking about the weather exactly could have been having any kind of conversation it was a lovely day in Manchester I think that

I'm sure they were talking about that. I think they just were told that Andy Mitton saw Oasis first at Wolverhampton years ago and they were sort of wondering what that gig was like. I think one aspect with the finances, I mean, we need Critch here for this really, don't we? But 21-22, which would have been included in the rolling calculation last year, the three-year rolling calculation and not for the next financial year. United lost...

I think something in the region of about £115 million that year. So taking that away, maybe the finances look a little bit better on the next set of calculations. But maybe we'll do something a bit more in-depth on that on the podcast in the weeks to come. Antoine Semenyo, another name that's been on The Athletic this week, Laurie.

Obviously, United will face him this weekend for Bournemouth as well. There's an article on there from Anand Raghuraman looking into his game. There's a suggestion in that piece that he's going to be worth something in the region of £65 million as well. Is this something that's likely to happen, Laurie? Where's the foundation to this particular line of interest? I think, I could be wrong, but that he is one of those alternatives to Acuna, for example. I mean, I sort of half wondered whether...

you'd look at him as a wing-back potentially in Amarant's system but he's clearly a player that Amarant likes and that United have looked at but Bournemouth's price for him I know it's a similar kind of fee to Cunha but obviously there's going to be negotiation around that it's not a release clause they want a club record fee from what we're told and that's higher than Dominic Solanke's transfer to Tottenham so

is that something United really want to engage with? Semenya's had a really good season, he's obviously a talented player in Anac's place, he talks about being two-footed and that's a key attribute that United are looking at but at the same time his goal record isn't as good as Kunja's and he's a similar kind of age so, you know, I think given the two choices it feels like they're going to progress with the Kunja one rather than Semenya.

Yeah, I mean, that being said, you know, you mentioned Critch earlier. I was actually in conversation with him before we got on the podcast and he was reminding me, I was sort of asking for the exact details and there's actually 95.5 million in cash that United have got in terms of, I think, the opportunities available to them globally.

basically because they've lent money and then they've transferred that into cash and then there's 90 million on the revolving credit facility that they can use and I know that's not ideal you know no one wants to go further into debt but it just means that there's scope for these kind of moves that being said I'd be surprised if

If it's more than De Lappe and Cunha, if they can get those deals over the line, again, big caveats, before they then have these sales to make sure that United are actually on an even footing when it comes to the PSR calculations. Victor Osherman, not happening. I mean, yeah, David was really strong with that. I...

In my conversations that I've had with people, I've been steered away more recently, certainly, but there was a time, sort of a month or so ago, where there was this idea that Osherman might be available if there was some kind of player trading going on. So obviously Napoli have been interested in Alejandro Garnaccio. I know Rasmus Hoyland's been mentioned as well in reports. So that was something that I think hadn't got shot down when I was asking people around it. More recently, I think it's been a sort of firmer...

thought that that isn't going to be a move that they're going to pursue. Okay, I mean Semenu, like I say, will have a chance to force the issue a little bit when Bournemouth take on Manchester United this weekend. We'll preview the game at the Vitality Stadium in a moment. But the nice quirk that Andoni Iraola was playing for Athletic Club the last time Manchester United faced them in European competition back in 2012 gives me the opportunity to talk about the Europa League again.

Remember next week we are doing a Talk of the Devils Extra to try and bring some good karma ahead of the first leg in Bilbao on your favourite memories of United's European trips abroad. We want your memories of how you got there, some of the weird and wonderful things that happen while you're on tour with supporters around the cities, making the journeys during the games as well. We'll share our best memories. We want yours as well. We're going to record that episode on Monday and make it available ahead of

the first leg against Athletic Club so get in touch devilspod at theathletic.com make sure you put extra in the subject line and if you can get those to us Sunday tea time UK time that is that would be brilliant and we can make sure we get them into Monday's record we're really looking forward to that let's just have a little flick of Lyon reaction because the messages are still coming in to that incredible occasion in fact I interviewed Nasir Mazraoui yesterday about that Lyon game

and he left at half-time but still described it as one of the best days of his life, which was interesting. It was nice to speak to him about that. This is from Philip. I watch most United games with my friend Alex. After the incredible comeback, we were more in disbelief than ecstatic. Today, almost four days later, I'm doing the dishes after breakfast, listening to the last part of...

Football Bloody Hell, that's lovely.

Chris took a weekend in Paris to recover from the Lyon game, as you do, and he said one of the paintings that most took my attention in the Louvre was Le Pandemonium by John Martin, based on the poem of the same name by John Milton, which sees the striking portrait of Satan assembling his army of fallen angels.

Imagine my shock to hear that very poem mentioned on Talk of the Devils, having never heard of it prior to the weekend. Everything about the Europa this season feels very written in the stars, name on the trophy, destiny personified, etc. Keep the faith, says Chris. Just the kind of culture that we bring to people on this kind of podcast.

Highbrow, right? Hang it in the Louvre. Highbrow. I was thinking that when I was seeing this bedlam, this pandemonium before me, I was just thinking that's that bit of a meme, isn't it, at the moment? But hang it in the Louvre, I thought. When you consider how bad Manchester United have been, the team have been really central to some of the most exciting games in the last 12 months.

Not us in a good way, but that Coventry semi-final, the Liverpool FA Cup win last year. And Lyon was... People are still reeling from it. People have got the stories from it. People are trying to make sense of it. I'm looking forward to the game in Bilbao, where we'll be this time next week. And logic is saying, well, if you can just...

somehow get a draw there and get them back to Old Trafford and I've spoke to a couple of people in football this week interviews that I've done and they'll be like oh you got the second leg at Old Trafford but then you think wait a minute Lyon scored four at Old Trafford why should we apply that type of logic to it I thought at the weekend Lyon went to St Etienne who were their great rivals and neighbours and the St Etienne fans unfurled a big banner saying Merci Maguire which was proper fan humour I

I quite like that. But that game last week, you know, the season was over and then it's on and it's still back on and everyone's buzzing. I'm speaking to athletic fans. It's one of the biggest games in their career. It's a really, really odd ticket. I just saw the weather forecast for Bilbao next week because I'm doing stupid stuff like this.

And I'm seeing it's for rain. And normally in Spain, you'd be like, OK, that'll suit United. But then you think, no, it's a Basque country. They're completely used to rain as well. So it's a semi-final of a European competition. That's European competition for any Manchester City or Liverpool fans listening to this. That's European football. Manchester United are in it. The only unbeaten team, I might add, of the hundred who entered the Champions League, the Conference League and the Europa League.

this year yes I'm clutching at straws but that's all you can clutch at when your team are closest to the relegation position then I don't know Bournemouth yeah and it feels like in a way Ruben Amrim will be clutching at straws when he picks an 11 for this game Laurie

I was going to play the game, let's name the 11. I don't think there's enough time left on the podcast to be honest. We'll be here until next week speculating who might be part of this line-up. But one thing actually that gives me a little bit of optimism going to the South Coast on Sunday is the recent form that Bournemouth have had at the Vitality Stadium. They've lost five of the past seven. I was really surprised by that. They've won just one game this season.

the defeats include during that run during those seven games they've won just once they've had defeats to Ipswich to Wolves United have only lost one of the last six at the Vitality Stadium as well won four of them drew two all last year feels like we've got a bad record there yeah it does doesn't it it's at home where I'm sure you're right my last time I've not been there for years I'm going this weekend but my last time there they lost 1-0 to a Josh King goal and that was

And that felt... That was probably the start of that sequence, I imagine. That just sets the tone for me. Yeah, that was a dreadful game. My last time was when Casemiro scored that got us into the Champions League. That may be...

two years ago. Seriously right for having a crap stadium, Bournemouth. Sorry to everyone in Bournemouth and I do know people there now and that little joke has got a little bit too close to home for me for many reasons that I won't explain on here. Have you not even seen the journey down by train, Andy? There's a rail replacement service bus from Southampton. Bournemouth to Manchester by train. No, it'd be a nightmare, mate. You going by the train? Yeah.

Yeah, it's a nightmare. The way the trains are planned in this country, everything is pushed through London and then you're left with the cross-country ones which are substandard for a first world country. Are we doing trains again? Sorry. Sorry. What are you like, you two? You just get his juices flowing. He only puts his hand on his head when he's talking about trains. Um...

Are we bothered what happens at Bournemouth? I mean, part of me feels like a rotated team against Wolves was bad enough. Doing that away at Bournemouth, despite the form, despite the record that we talked about, is a much more difficult task for United to survive without damaging confidence levels too much, surely. Yeah, and this is what we were kind of alluding to, wasn't it, before when you were saying pick your 11, because you're sort of thinking...

Does he go with his strongest side to get the momentum, to get a bit of positivity leading into Thursday's game? Or does he protect them again? So obviously Casemiro sat out the entirety of the Wolves game. Harry Maguire sat out the entirety of the Wolves game. Bruno Fernandes never sits out the entirety of a game if he can walk. So he was on the pitch later on in the game. But you're sort of wondering what kind of mix will he put out there at

I think I said on the last pod, didn't I, that I feel like Hoyland still needs to try and play himself into form. So whilst Chido Obi might be a shout to see what he can do up top, I don't feel like, with Hoyland still requiring a bit of, for me, game time confidence, I feel like he should be one to start. I would quite like Mason Mount to get a start just because...

I know he's not done everything right when he's been playing this sequence of games and he's smiling again. I feel like Laurie says every week that Mason Mount he wants him to start. Or when we do these predicted teams for games, right? Most of us, like, there's like five of us doing it for Lyon last week and Laurie's always got like Mason Mount captain. LAUGHTER

I think just because I feel like he is, and I know he's not showing it for United, but he is a player that can score goals. So I'm just sort of clinging on to that. He didn't show it last week. No, you're right. That's what I mean. I know he didn't, but he was at least in that position. You know, when he first came on against Forest, he gets a chance within like 30 seconds. He's getting himself in these positions and he's got a bit of edge to him. I quite like, you know, the fact that he seems to foul a player or kind of muscle in on somebody every game that he features in. So I don't know. And I just feel like he needs a bit more game time if you're going to

maybe relying on him at some points in the Europa League ties, I feel like that could be a chance to start him. He also needs to realise that it's football and not rugby, given that shot he missed in front of the Stretford end the other day when he got his phone to it. I take the point, I'm only having a laugh about it. But Ian, it does matter. I don't want another team to do the double over Manchester United. The game in December was...

was humiliating and also and this is truly desperate but it is true this group between 13th Everton on 38 points and 17th West Ham there's five league places there there's actually a lot of money at stake if Manchester United

could finish top of that pathetic group of fallen giants. They're all pretty big clubs, aren't they? Spurs, West Ham, Wolves, Everton and Manchester United sat in the middle of it with 38 points from 33 games. Whenever United play, you always want them to win out of respect to the fans who are travelling and making that long journey as well. Wins do breed confidence. United have not won now in five games.

in the league but I also take the greater point of having to rest your best players because that game in the Basque Country next Thursday is the biggest game of the season Can you remember the other teams that have done the double over United Andy? So obviously Wolves being one there's five five teams in the Premier League have done the double over United this season Yeah okay What a way to finish the podcast this is Sorry Forest yeah

Palace didn't Everton didn't Tottenham Tottenham Tottenham are one of them aren't they Liverpool didn't unlucky Liverpool Arsenal that was a draw on it City didn't unlucky City I tell you who did Newcastle yeah Chelsea were not still to play them away Villa we drew away Bournemouth were about to play Fulham we beat Brighton is that it

Did you just say, is that it? It's your quiz question. If you're the quiz master, you need to keep up with the answers. Did he mention Forrest? Forrest was the only other one. I can't remember if he said. He said Forrest first. There we go. I forgot. Just well done on your 100%.

answer to my question which was sprung on you it looks like you just read the list of results to be fair so I don't think you should get any I didn't read the results I looked at the league table okay thank you so much both of you for this spirited end to the podcast I really am looking forward to Manchester United next playing football on Sunday now

So a huge thank you to both for being here, for finishing the pod in such spectacular fashion as well. Don't forget, share your favorite European away memories with us. Let's get lost in it again, just for a moment, just for a podcast. Get in touch, devilspod at theathletic.com. Get them in by Sunday tea time, UK time. Thank you very much for listening. See you on the next one. Take care. Bye-bye. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.