TOTD EXTRA: Old Trafford's Greatest European Nights
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Hello and welcome to Talk The Devils Extra, the bonus podcast that takes you deeper on some of the biggest Manchester United stories from the Athletic. In this edition, we're doing something a little bit different. We're trying to get people in the mood for Thursday, so we're going to look back at some of the greatest European matches of all time at Old Trafford. The ones that stand out to us, the ones that stand out to you, and the ones that stand out to some of the people involved as well. Whether it's a Tuesday or a Wednesday,

or more recently a Thursday. Anyway, settle in, relax and let's remember when it felt like Old Trafford was the centre of the footballing universe. And this crowd is really like a pressure cooker. Tension, the atmosphere you can almost touch. It asks us to travel best. Come on George, says the crowd. My word, if George can produce a second goal, it could put Manchester United in the European Cup final. Robson right on the line.

Exactly halfway through the first half and indeed Barcelona were uncertain in this. It's too high for Mark Hughes. Chance for Webb though. Right foot, hit the post, McLear is in. Steve Bruce lifts the European Super Cup. Another tremendous night for European football here at Old Trafford. With Whip, just too much elevation. Giggs, rolled in for Cole. And Mario's behind it. And David Beckham!

Roberto Carlos, it's Ronaldo!

It is Rooney then. Oh! Simply sensational. And he has a hat-trick inside an hour of his Manchester United debut. Mancini caught in possession by O'Shea. Ronaldo thought about the shot. He'll think about it again now. Now Patrice Evra. It's in. Deflected. But Evra won't care. His first ever goal in Europe.

Just adds to the humiliation for Roma. A magnificent seven. Here's Kaká, seen off Fletcher, seen off Eintracht, he's still going. It's wonderful from Kaká, absolutely magical. He played them on his own then and he beat them all. It's Cristiano on this big lead by Nielsen. We've got priceless quality, and then Anthony...

What a way to kick it off. Laurie and Andy are here. Thursday's big, Andy, but what makes European nights special, do you think, at Old Trafford? The fact it's usually a big game. Old Trafford under lights is always exciting. The mystique around the opponents is always exciting.

Less so now because you know so much about them. But there were times, which we'll talk about in this podcast, where you knew almost nothing about them. The travelling fans who come with their variation of song and colour. United's history. Matt Busby led Manchester United into Europe against the wishes of the English football authorities. United and Europe are synonymous with...

success, with youth, with excitement and unfortunately with tragedy. Yeah, 1958 obviously will always stand out with the Munich air disaster and obviously the club's recovery from that, a key part of their European story. Laurie, obviously the teams of the 50s, the 60s set the tone but the teams of the 80s, the 90s and beyond that

everyone seems to have added to this story, don't they? Yeah, I mean, my football viewing at Old Trafford under the lights, as Andy says, started in the 90s and it felt magical, mystical. We'll get on to perhaps my first game in a little while, but even the fact that it wasn't necessarily the giants of European football visiting Old Trafford, it felt special because it was

new and unique and you had the flares out and you had people really excited to go to the game and I think that always is sustained okay there's probably been European nights where you know you felt okay we're going through the motions here a little bit certainly I can remember some games the PSV Eindhoven in the Champions League that was a nil-nil group stage game that

that felt very tedious. But I think in the main, even in the second tier competition that United are in now and they were under Eric Ten Hag, you know, that Barcelona game, for instance, under Eric Ten Hag was a special night at Old Trafford, even though it wasn't the premier competition. And so various different factors can, I think, build towards making nights at Old Trafford

in European competition special. And yeah, clearly United aren't dining on the top table at the moment. They could be in future again, but I feel that there's sort of the fact that United might even be away from that competition then makes it sort of more impactful when they do return. So yeah, the nineties and the two thousands, we were spoiled really, weren't we? Because it became routine that big teams were visiting Old Trafford and United were often the victors. But certainly when I first started watching them, it was a tough competition.

You know, they had to face some teams that they got beaten well by. Juventus, certainly early on, and even Fenerbahce, the first team to beat United at Old Trafford. I was there for that one as well. And you're sort of thinking, is this going to turn? So that kind of climb, I think, makes the ultimate rise to the summit, as they did do, all the more special.

Definitely. And my earliest memories going to Old Trafford were watching teams that had that mystique handed that you talked about. You know, the idea that you'd heard about these mystical names like Romario or some of the early German players as well, who Manchester United played against. People like Alan Boccik up front for Juventus. You know a bit about them, but not specifically.

seeing them in the flesh or seeing them on clips like obviously nowadays YouTube and whatever else would be able to show you even if it's not seeing them in real life but imagine in the 50s let's go back to Manchester United's first ever European home game

I've said home game, not game at Old Trafford for a reason. You'll find out in a moment why. A 10-0 win against the Belgian champions Anderlecht. The first ever game for Manchester United in the European Cup. It was the preliminary round in 1956. It's still the club's biggest ever win as well, isn't it? It is.

About 20 years ago, I played football with a lad who played for Anderlecht and he helped me track down one of the few Belgian players still alive who'd taken part in the game. The top scorer, a gentleman called Hippolyte van den Bosch. And he said to me, we were the best team in Belgium, a really great side.

but Manchester United were on another level. This was the best English team that I'd ever seen. Bobby Charlton wasn't even starting that day, just to give you an idea of how strong United were. I don't recall their names, but nine of them were full internationals, and the two strikers impressed me the most. I remember the name of one, Taylor, and him lifting his hand up and cheering, even before he put the ball into the back of the net.

It was just too easy for them. We knew very little about our opponents. Scouting didn't exist. We'd never even seen any images of the Manchester United players. The circumstances in those days just didn't allow for it. We played the game at Manchester City's ground. There were no floodlights at Old Trafford in 1957. The terraces seemed to stretch forever. Matt Busby was the brain behind this group of very talented youngsters. They were destined to be knighted, but faith decided differently.

Yeah, lovely memory from him. Amazing. And only you, I think, could have tracked down one of the Anderlecht players who played in 1956. But that's why we love you, Andy.

I guess that also sets out from the very start some of the mystique from the other side, Laurie, of players coming to play against United at Old Trafford. Yeah, I mean, I think certainly there'll be plenty of players that play in Old Trafford on a European night. That's their sort of premier memory as a footballer. You know, the amount of shirts that get swapped. Certainly, I remember that. And, you know, you think of...

The lad I mentioned earlier, Bollich, who scored the winning goal at Old Trafford. I think that's probably going to be one of his favourite memories from his career, given the significance. I couldn't name another one. No.

I know obviously Old Trafford has got a lot of stick and clearly it needs renovating and obviously we're looking at a new stadium, but I do think that the memories that are held there, there is a sort of ethereal quality to them and that sustains for both United players and players that have visited the game. Two years ago I was in Finland. Manchester United have only ever played one game in Finland, but they played HJK at Old Trafford in 1965.

I met Markku Peltonemi. I'm sure Finnish listeners will correct me on that. And he'd scored one of the HJK goals as a 17-year-old.

And he had a copy of the match programme. And he spoke about those games against United like it was the greatest moment of his life. He reminisced about the fog in Manchester, the legends he played against, and bemoaning that they weren't allowed to replace their injured goalkeeper. He said, otherwise we would have only lost 5-0 and not 6. It's funny the things that stick in people's mind, isn't it? Obviously back then, no substitutes or no way of being able to replace a goalkeeper injured in the game.

I guess for United, Andy, you've already touched upon it. Always the foundation of the legacy will be Samat Busby's ambition, is probably the word I would use, to take Manchester United into European competition, to fight against the football authorities in this country, to allow that to happen. Obviously, the tragedy of 1958, well, for him, I know, was always in his mind and there would be some sense of regret considering Manchester

the tragedy that took place. But for him to be able to take United on that journey and for those early sides to show their quality in Europe, that is the foundation of Manchester United in Europe, isn't it? That's why...

Matches now are only added to the legacy, really. Yeah, and there's a second reason he wanted to feel vindicated for the boys he lost in Munich by winning the European Cup in 68. And there were some cracking games in the 60s at Old Trafford and they didn't always end well. Partizan Belgrade knocked Manchester United out in the semi-finals in 1966. Paddy Crearand...

Didn't take that defeat at Old Trafford too well. He didn't just tell one of the opposing players how he felt about it. He swung a punch at him in the after-match dinner at the Midland Hotel. LAUGHTER

There was loads of that going on. I mean, this was a time where technology was so different to now. So Manchester United were playing East Berlin, communist East Berlin. I'm going to mention Crehund again because he told the border guards that his name was James Bond and the coach was obviously held up for hours because of this. There was a real innocence and lack of knowledge about the teams who Manchester United were playing. Going to places like Bilbao in the 50s where United could be going again now.

But when these teams came to Old Trafford, United were a huge name. They were playing in front of 50,000, 60,000 people. Some huge, huge matches leading right up to 68. The semi-final was against Real Madrid at Old Trafford. The away leg was more notable. AC Milan in 69, another semi-final. Unhappy one this time. The year before was a much happier one.

But these are some of the most memorable moments in Manchester United's history. Kroenig again suspects that the referee in 69 had been bought off and he did have some vindication in thinking that. And then you moved into the 70s where the atmosphere was often even louder. You'd have teams like St Etienne,

playing Manchester United for the first time, Porto, Juventus, Tommy Docherty's team and the excitement of playing to a new generation of fans. Because you weren't playing European football every year, if you go in five or ten years without playing, suddenly it's like, whoa, we're back in Europe again now.

Yeah, that's the thing that stood out to me, to be honest. You talked about 1969. They didn't actually play in the European Cup again from that date until all the way through to 1993. So now you understand why it was such a big deal, what Sir Alex Ferguson managed to do there. And that's where Manchester United's Champions League legacy started because the competition had been renamed at that point.

Let's go back to the start of some of your memories then, listening. We asked for you to get involved. You can always get involved with these. Devilspod at theathletic.com. And we had a fantastic response. So one of the things that people got in touch about was their earliest memory. So Julian straight away, November this year will mark my 50th year as a United fan.

and United vs Barcelona on the 20th March 1984 is my greatest I was there moment. From 2-0 down in the first leg, Brian Robson led from the front and I will never forget being in the Stretford M when those two goals in two minutes went in as we turned the tie around. Wilkins and a rut in travel, Robson! A chapter of disasters that Robson in the end profited from. A night like this...

Really, you must ask how dare Manchester United consider selling this man. Wilkins urging Duxbury forward. Real wheel of the arms. Whiteside. Stateful turn! Two goals in two minutes. It's a glorious night for Manchester United. And look in stunned amazement.

Maradona was kept quiet on the night and for those who don't know life before the Premier League, Martin Tyler's commentary about Captain Marvel heading to Italy the following season was the social media of its day. David, in Canada, a nine-year-old me sat in the north stand watching Brian Robson against Diego Maradona in midfield. The stuff that dreams are made of, I remember it like yesterday, Paul. Obviously there's the Barcelona night when Robson showed Maradona what a world-class player looks like.

But my favourite European night at Old Trafford is the European Super Cup win. I didn't even know that was at Old Trafford, actually. In 1991 against Red Star Belgrade, when the forward line of Pancev, Savicevic and Mihailovic absolutely destroyed us. And to this day, I don't know how we won that match. It was a real joy to see players like that at Old Trafford due to the war in Yugoslavia. It was a one-leg game, which we scraped through with only 20,000 there to see it. Is that right, Andy? Yeah.

Yeah, if you're looking at shameful moments in your club's history, that is one of them for Manchester United. The fans didn't turn up. 200 Red Star fans. And it was played at Old Trafford, only one leg, because it was starting to kick off. In fact, that very night on the World Service, it was kicking off in Yugoslavia. There was fighting going on that night. Manchester United won that game, but the performance of Savicevic is one of the greatest. The top three from a visiting player at Old Trafford.

The United players can't believe that they actually won that game. When Nemanja Vidic joined Manchester United, Savicevic, who's Montenegrin, spoke to him about that game and Vidic tracked down a DVD. It really was an incredible night. 200 away fans. I think they're the loudest 200 people I've ever heard in my life. They all came by coach.

Yeah, really, really memorable. Wow. Yeah, fantastic. I had no idea, Laurie, did you, that that was at Old Trafford? No, no. I'd heard my dad talk about Savicevic, but yeah, no idea about that. I was also just thinking of Andy's, the coach trip, wait, so from all the way from Yugoslavia, they got basically the monkey bus from Yugoslavia. Yeah, they were double deckers. I remember seeing him in the car park. I also remember Brian McClare clapping when Savicevic got substituted because it meant he could try and play a little bit. Yeah.

We'll get on to players getting clapped off at Old Trafford, won't we? Opposition players. Yeah, there's a very famous example of that, isn't there, to be fair? A lovely one from Warren as well, picking out the United 3-Barcelona 0 game. He remembers being lifted by his dad when the second went in. I remember being thrown so high up in the air. A minute later, Stapleton scored. I've never heard the old ground so loud before.

My dad recorded the game when we got home and even took the tab off the videotape with the narrative, United 3, Barcelona 0. Do not ever record over. I've still got the tape at home in the loft. I haven't even got a video player anymore. Thank you, Manchester United. Thank you, Brian Robson. And thank you, Dad. That was a memory of his late father. It's a lovely memory, Warren. Thank you very much for sharing it. We've sort of teased a bit there of people's earliest memories. It's brought us into...

are really its memories as well. So Andy, yours will be a little bit earlier than ours possibly. What was the first United European tie you attended at Old Trafford? Competitive game, Pecci-Muncas in 1990. That Barcelona game in 84. You've just made that up. I've not made it up, I'll explain it. The Barca game in 84 would be my missed and most regretted. My dad wouldn't let me go. I was 10. I listened to it on Piccadilly Radio. I could hear Old Trafford. That's how close I lived by Old Trafford.

I met Maradona years later. He said, I've been to Old Trafford. I should have had a penalty. I then relayed that nugget of information to Brian Robson and said, tell Maradona it was not a penalty. So I remember in 88, because Manchester United weren't that good and English clubs were banned from Europe, they had to pay AC Milan, who were the best team in the world, to visit Old Trafford. And for me, because you're starved of European football,

That was so exciting. So I got all the people in my class to go to the game. I bought flags. We went on the Stretford End. We got in early. I wanted to basically match the ultras with a massive Tifo. I was so excited about it. We all got the bus from Urmston through Stretford. And it was only a friendly. But I'm sure the Milan players were absolutely scared by me with my three flags waving in the Stretford End. LAUGHTER

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My first game was against Rapid Vienna at the start of the 96-97 Champions League campaign. So September 25th, 96. I just remember that feeling of a sort of special occasion, something unique and fresh. I know that they've obviously been in UEFA Cup before that and the Champions League even before that. But for me, that was my, you know, my first game prior to that was the Arsenal game when Cantona scored against Seaman. I think that was the year prior. So it just, it was,

going to football matches was pretty special for me anyway and I think it might have been easy to get tickets for European games at that period I could be wrong but anyway so we went to all the games that season I've actually I went back through my loft my dad thought he chucked away all these programs I'm sure you haven't chucked away the programs come on even I know I'm not a sort of total nerd like Andy but I

I wouldn't have let you chuck away the programme. So I went rooting through this weekend and I found them all. So I've got like all the programmes from every United game at Old Trafford from 96, 97, all the way up to 98, 99, obviously when they go and win the thing. The programme notes are actually quite funny when I just look through them from Alex Ferguson, not Sir Alex, obviously. They'd just come off being beaten by Juventus in the first game away from home.

And he said, some people were very quick to draw sweeping conclusions about the state of football, not just at Old Trafford, but in England after that match. I don't pretend we impressed. Indeed, some of our younger players failed to come to terms with the occasion, class of 92. But we weren't without some credibility because as the game wore on, I thought we gathered ourselves and by the end played with our normal expression,

Our boys learned quickly as they proved last year and I believe you will now see us bring on to the European stage the kind of quality which saw us sandwich our last European side with a couple of four-goal wins. Certainly that is our aim this evening. And they did go in and beat Rapid Vienna. They aggressively won the ball back high up. Solskjaer scored, Beckham scored. Roy Keane put in a brilliant cross actually for Solskjaer's goal to kind of just...

It reminded me, it just arrested the narrative that Keane was this kind of destroyer in the field. He was an excellent passer of the ball, very quick to control. And I also, when I was looking back through my loft, I found the woolly hat that I used to take to Old Trafford and every game I went to, I got like a little badge beforehand. So I've still got it all where I think it goes back to, yeah, 96, 97. I've got like a European Cup kind of badge on my hat. So anyway, that was...

That's the kind of stuff that I would do on the way to a European game, kind of treat myself to a little badge to put on my woolly hat. So I wasn't making up Pexy Monkass. No. After a five-year ban, English teams were let back into Europe in 1990, United were the FA Cup winners. Cup Winners' Cup, again, the crowd was very low at Old Trafford. And United reached the final and won the competition that year, playing against teams like Wrexham.

Montpellier, Leisure Warsaw. That was a Euro away back then. That was my first Euro away, Wrexham. It was one hour away. My first proper, proper one after any finals or anything was Atletico Madrid in 91. But I remember Montpellier coming to Old Trafford, a young defender called Laurent Blanc playing for them and a more famous player called Carlos Valderrama. I remember the Montpellier fans singing, Montpellier!

L-E-L-E-L-E-L-E and it's that colour that the away fans can bring and French fans are often the best when they come to Old Trafford so Netien were brilliant PSG but United reached the final that year in Rotterdam May 91 best month of my life

didn't actually beat glamorous teams. You know, Leisure Wars were in this semi-final. We're no Juventus or Spanish team. But United were back in Europe. Following year got knocked out. Famous game at Old Trafford. Torpedo Moscow. Peter Schmeichel trying to score. And then back into Europe for the Champions League. Kispest Honved. I went there by train from Manchester. On rail tickets, which probably weren't entirely legitimate...

and you're getting all these clubs coming to Old Trafford again, and then you're getting matches like Galatasaray at Old Trafford, IFK Gothenburg, Barcelona. Suddenly Barcelona are back on a semi-regular basis. That's probably my earliest memory of watching United at Old Trafford was the game against Barcelona 2-2 in 1994. I remember the front line and the way people talked about it of Romario and Aristo Stoichkov, which at the time was as good as it got. I think Romario scored. I don't think Stoichkov did in that game, 2-2, and then United got absolutely battered.

in the game away but it was back when the rules meant you could only name a certain number of foreign players and even Irish players were classed as foreign back then so the United team was often quite makeshift in the competition in the early days of the Champions League because of that rule

people like Dennis Irwin, Roy Keane, Peter Smichel struggling to get in the side. Was Brian McClare allowed Andy? Was he, was he classed as a foreigner as a Scot or not? I can't remember. I think it was actually non-English players that were banned. So there was a small caveat where you could have two others providing they'd spent five years playing England, but basically, yeah. So I think McClare, you know, even I guess Ryan Giggs as a Welshman, uh,

you know, would be barred. So, yeah, I think in the end, I think Fergie had to choose between, for example, Schmeichel, Konczalski, Erwin and Roy Keane away in Barcelona, obviously, had to reduce his team quite dramatically and it was a bad night in the end. Yeah, it could have been so much better, couldn't it? I mean, United...

Obviously, they've got some very memorable games from that period, but they could have had some glorious ones as well, to be fair, if they were able to name the full team. Obviously, Alex Ferguson, Andy, is Manchester United in Europe in modern terms in many ways, considering how long he was at Old Trafford for, considering how well the teams did. Maybe not as well as domestically, and I know that that is a

a regret of his I can still see his face actually walking off the pitch in his final home European game against Real Madrid after Nani was sent off and the disappointment that obviously he knew at that point what that represented we didn't until a few months later we'll talk later on in the podcast about some of the nights to forget maybe but in terms of a European modern legacy I

United is Ferguson, isn't it? It is, and he needed to play the learning game. He'd been very successful with Aberdeen, but Manchester United just couldn't click on a tap because they were champions of England and become champions of Europe. So there was a gradual progression from 93 right the way through to 99 with heartache along the way. We've been knocked out in quarterfinals.

in semi-finals with coming up against unknown quantities we might think of this as a modern era but the level of information United had about opponents was still really limited it was Fergie ringing his mates in Holland going what do you suspect these will do and it was the same for the others

So there's a guy called Tony Bruin Slott correctly predicted the Manchester United team and told you that the Barcelona manager back in 94. So there's very little analysis. Maybe an assistant manager go out and watch the team a week or two before and

But because of the ban on certain players, that really affected Manchester United as well. Manchester United had to drop three or four of their best players for huge matches. And because of the traditional makeup of English clubs, bringing players in from Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, from Wales, from Scotland, that was a bigger disadvantage to the English teams than any Spanish, Italian or German team. Yeah, it definitely would have held United back considering some of the best players that we name-checked a moment ago.

I guess the moment where it felt like United were really onto something under Ferguson in the Champions League was a home match against Porto in the quarter-finals of the competition in 1996 and 1997. And that's certainly the game that stands out to one of the centre-backs who played in that match. Hi, I'm David May and my favourite memory of a European night was at Old Trafford against Porto when Manchester United won 4-0.

I scored the first goal, and I don't know whether anyone can remember, but Becks crossed it to the far post, and on the pitch was like a scorched area where a flare had been thrown onto the pitch. Only three weeks ago, I found out that that flare was thrown by my mate's brother. Can you believe that? Unbelievable atmosphere. United went on to win 4-0. Mario Jardel was the centre-forward who was an absolute superstar for Porto, and...

They rested him for the first leg and they actually brought him on, I think maybe 2-0, 3-0. Game was done. Coley and Eric and Giggsie finished him off and we went over there, 2-0-0, got the biggest bollocking off the manager after five minutes. He blamed me trying to play somebody offside. We get to the airport...

The highlight is on the TV as we're watching it and the lad is two yards offside and the manager, in the only time of his career, apologised to him. So that's my highlight of the Champions League and an unbelievable night at Old Trafford and also a little bit over in Porto. Brilliant that, innit? Loved that. David's quite right. That's one of the best modern games at Old Trafford. Porto was so highly rated that...

Everyone was planning that away game for months beforehand. What are you doing for Porto, mate? What are you doing for Porto? 7,000 tickets we got. I reckon 8,000, 9,000 travelled over there. But the mad thing was, by the time you went there, you were going with a 4-0 lead.

It was one of my first memories as well, obviously, later on in that season after beating Rapid Vienna. And the flares are the thing that I remember from that period of time. So there was a sequence of games where United fans would, and obviously you can't really do it these days, can you? One of your earlier memories was talking about the mist across Old Trafford and it felt like that was kind of like part of the

part of the score really for European nights where you'd have this sort of flared smoke drifting across the pitch and I don't know, just create a really special atmosphere

evocative atmosphere. And yeah, I spoke to David May sort of around that game and he sort of went into a bit more detail about the serious words that Sir Alex put in the dressing room at half-time when he thought he'd... Because basically what he'd said is don't give away any early goals, right? You're 4-0 up. Don't give them any encouragement to try and turn this one around. And he felt that that was maybe a period where they'd actually...

made a mistake and they could have scored and actually in the end I think David May or Gary Pallister made a recovering tackle and they were okay and obviously I find it hilarious that that's the one time that Alex then actually apologised to him but that home game I remember it for Pallister and I think the commentary was something like

rose like a salmon or something like that. And then David Mays on hand to put the rebound in and spark Old Trafford into jubilation. But that was the night Old Trafford, I feel, because Port were a big team back then. They had a really good run in the Champions League and United absolutely blitzed them. You sort of felt, OK, something could happen here.

Yeah, and it was picked out by other people as well. Ryan, we were fully expecting to struggle because Porto had beaten AC Milan in the San Siro, but we really turned up on the night. I'd started my first ever job that week and had to take Thursday off with one hell of a hangover. I'm sure you weren't alone, Ryan. David picked it out as well. He says the Porto quarterfinal Champions League home game in 97. Looking back, we didn't know at the time, but this would be Eric's last act in

as the conductor in a European home win since you went out in Dortmund in the next round and you retired.

Oh, and David May scored that night too. Well, yeah, you've heard from the man himself. Back at the halls of residence, my Portuguese neighbour was strangely quiet that night. A nice reminisce from David as well. There's so many games around this time that we could talk about, but I think we should probably go into some of the ones that people mentioned. This is the European night, I think, for a lot of people when asked what is the standout game at Old Trafford. It's probably the standout goal

And that's Paul Scholes scoring in 2008 in the semi-final against Barcelona. 14 minutes gone. Breakthrough for Manchester United. An unstoppable shot from Paul Scholes.

Alexis picks that out. I'll never forget the atmosphere at Old Trafford for United against Barcelona. A flag spinning to the tune of Viva Ronaldo was utterly mesmerised by the performance of Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic and Scholes' goal was just an unbelievable moment. The atmosphere, Andy, that night was special, wasn't it? That stands out to me as one of the best I think I've ever heard at Old Trafford.

It was certainly the best this century. Barcelona, under Guardiola, were the real deal. Manchester United had played them before, as Laurie touched on. They were the two all in 1994. Two brilliant 3-0 games, 1997-1998. 1998-1999.

I can't believe you've got that year wrong. Oh, sorry. The 98-99 treble year, the two 3-0 games. Yeah, in the treble season. What a couple of matches they were. But let's get back to 2008 because that was a special night as well, wasn't it? And it'd been a good run to there. You know, big wins in Lyon.

Roma away Cristiano Ronaldo scoring a brilliant header and then that Paul Scholes goal but I remember the atmosphere I remember Believe being spelled out as well that was the idea of Paul Davis who edits the programme to this day it was huge

A year or two later, no, maybe five or six years after, I interviewed Eric Abidal. And he's like, no, no, we didn't. Shut up. You got beat fair and square. I spoke to quite a few of them lads about it. The problem is, the Barcelona lads, I've spoke to most of them post-2011. And they just go, yeah, but what happened the following year and a few years after that? Yeah, that's the problem, isn't it, really? In terms of getting revenge, they certainly did that.

Another game against Spanish opposition. This one stands out to me, to be honest, as well. This is Sarah's memory. United 4, Real Madrid 3, 23rd of April 2003. A Ronaldo R9 hat-trick and he got a standing ovation from the Stretford end. I don't think it was just the Stretford end. It felt like...

the entire stadium, to be honest. I was in the north stand and I was on my feet. United won 4-3. That was the best thing about it. Unbelievable game, but unfortunately went out on aggregate. Milo pointed that out as well. It wasn't the scoreline itself that was so memorable, even though it was 4-3. It's the fact that the legend that is, Ronaldo Luis Nazario de Lima, to give him his full name, received a standing ovation from everyone inside Old Trafford, a memory that will stay with me for a lifetime.

Neither of them have mentioned David Beckham, Laurie, either, who was dropped from the game, then came on and scored twice.

And obviously would join Real Madrid not long afterwards. It had everything that time. Yeah, and it's funny, isn't it? Because we were sort of discussing this in the car on the way to Nottingham Forest recently, weren't we? And you picked it out and I hadn't even had it on my list because it ended in ultimately United going out of the competition. It kind of didn't really, for me, necessarily rank as a special memory. But actually, when you think about all that kind of stuff, it absolutely stands out in your recollections for the season.

for the Ronaldo thing really because I it was you know I was in the family stand and I just sort of learnt how to swear a little bit you know in the family stand you just learnt how to swear yeah amazing listen that's where you pick these things up and so I thought it was smart and clever to call Ronaldo a fat you know you know what and obviously he's

He had come off the World Cup and been a leading scorer, I think, in Brazil winning the thing. But anyway, I sort of thought he was past it. Yeah, how wrong I was. And obviously, by the end of it, I was on my feet sort of applauding him as well. And it did. It had so much to it, didn't it? Where Real Madrid coming to Old Trafford, John O'Shea nutmegging Luis Figo, you know, and different moments.

As you say, Beckham coming off the bench and kind of churning it around. I think there was a flicker of hope at that point. You know, maybe, maybe, because they'd lost the first leg 3-1, I think, hadn't they? Yeah. And Van Nistelrooy scored late on to kind of give United a little bit of a glimmer of something. And so you're sort of thinking, OK, well, it only takes...

I think it would have needed three more goals, wouldn't it? Giving the away goals rule. But anyway, it sort of felt after, you know, 99 that anything could happen. But I think for the main part, when Ronaldo scored the second, you're just thinking, OK, well, this is going to be, you know, an exhibition of football to at least be enjoyed for what it is. Yeah, some of the names involved in that game, you mentioned some there, but, you know, Hierro, Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo playing for Real Madrid, Van Nistelrooy, Giggs, Keane,

Ferdinand, Varane playing for Manchester United. The reason it stands out to me, even though United didn't go through, is just like, it felt like Real Madrid at that point were the best. They were the benchmark. And even though United went out

They beat them on the night. The drama of Beckham coming on, the mastery of R9, Ronaldo scoring the hat-trick, and the class that the United fans showed in applauding him off the field, that would just never happen now, would it? I don't think. I can't think of any eventuality, unless it was a former Manchester United player maybe doing it, where a player would get a standing ovation having knocked United down.

out of Europe. Do you remember that game, Andy, I presume? Real Madrid had knocked United out when United were the treble holders in 2000 and they were top games as well. Got beat 3-2 at Old Trafford. Oh, the moment. Yeah, the moment. And then to lose 5-6 to Real Madrid. This is peak Manchester United, peak Real Madrid. You know,

You've got all these top teams coming to Old Trafford. Valencia had a brilliant team. United played them a couple of times around that time. Deportivo La Coruña came to Old Trafford two or three times, won one of the games. So this is full-on European football football.

Bayern Leverkusen were another team who stopped Manchester United reaching the final in 2002. That was a really frustrating night. But Real Madrid are number one. Dem and Barcelona are the teams who, when you're at your very, very best, which Manchester United are not now, you like to measure yourself against them. And we might even speak more about another game against Real Madrid.

Yeah, the moment for me was Redondo's flick where he nutmegged Henning Berg. If you've not seen that or you don't remember that, go back and have a look at it on YouTube. It's an absolutely ridiculous piece of skill. Just to name some of the other games that people picked out. So Tom says United 3, Milan 2, Kaká's Masterclass and Rooney's last minute winner. That would have been 2000 and... Seven.

Yeah, 2007. Because it set the tone for United to then build, you know what I mean? It felt like, OK... Yeah, yeah. Because basically Milan rested all their players, didn't they, in the league for the second leg and then beat United comfortably. But that was a night where, again, it sort of felt like United were returning to the top tier of European football. Yeah, obviously we'll talk about another game against Italian opposition that season, which a lot of people picked out in a moment.

Let's have a look at what else. Rooney's hat trick, yeah, this stands out to me too. Fenerbahce 2004, the anticipation and build-up to his first game. Rooney making his debut after injury and he just delivered. Remember my dad saying to me, what a player as the third went in. It's not just a decent hat trick, it's an absolutely incredible hat trick, to be fair, to score on your debut in the Champions League for Manchester United. Ridiculous. And a tease of what would be to come. We've got another one actually picked out from...

a few years after that it involved way really though i think as well this is eric steele who would have been the goalkeeping coach at the time talking about manchester united's victory in the semi-finals of the competition in 2011. looking at home games for my favorite champions league occasion with manchester united would have to be the semi-final

At home, we've been to Schalke, we've won the game 2-0. We know the job still has to be done in the home leg. Unbelievable atmosphere. Just remember the night walking out, tingle time. Champions League, semi-final, 2-0 up on aggregate. Obviously, we're really confident that we're going to go and get the job done. It was just a celebration night. We carried on where we left off on the away leg, winning the tie 4-1, and we were on our way to Wembley. Atmosphere, the crowd...

the players were absolutely jubilant at the end and it was a terrific performance. Tingle time, Laurie. I love that. Eric's got a brilliant way with words at times. I think he really captures the mood as a genuine football person who loves the game. And yeah, I mean, that night, can you name the missing midfielder in this line-up from that night? Here we go. So, Anderson, Nani,

Scoles, Valencia and there was another what I would call midfielder, so it's sort of like a five-man midfielder I think it was. What, central midfielder? Yeah. Darren Gibson? Well done Andy. Darren Gibson started a Champions League semi-final. Well he scored in a quarter-final against Bayern Munich, we might talk about that in a bit, that was an unbelievable moment. Anyway, go on, sorry. I just think it sort of captures the kind of time doesn't it where, you know, even in the final I think that year, United had a kind of

Perhaps a side that you wouldn't necessarily think would be in a Champions League final, but it just shows the alchemy at that particular period of time with Sir Alex or with the players. And OK, I know it's probably a disappointment for him that he didn't win more than two, but I think certainly moments he was punching above his weight in what he had out on the pitch. Clearly other moments they did disappoint. But yeah, I thought that was a really good memory to pick out from Eric there. And obviously against a manager that would come on to

host matches at United himself as manager and even another player that was playing for Schalke that night had played against United earlier in the years before Real Madrid I think Raul was playing for Schalke that night so yeah a fun memory to have

6-1 on aggregate in a Champions League semi-final doesn't show Schalke in the best light. And I'm mindful of what I say here because I know two Schalke fans who listen to this podcast and one of them became a director and buzzed off meeting Bobby Charlton when he came to Old Trafford. One of the Schalke directors is a Manchester United fan. He has a very soft spot, as does one of the main communications people at the football club. Wow. Yeah. Good to Morgan. Yeah.

I was told that Manchester United wanted Manuel Neuer, the goalkeeper for Schalke. And he said to them, if I want to go to Manchester, I'll go on holiday. And I don't want to do that. And it was one of the most arrogant responses to Manchester United wanting a player. Given A, how good Manchester United were and B, that they've just put six past you. And that was at a time, you know, United beat Chelsea the previous round.

Lots of big games against Celtic and Rangers at Old Trafford. Top atmosphere. I think that three European Cup finals in four years is a really underrated part of Manchester United's history. Yeah, because they didn't win...

them all basically that's why they sort of get forgotten a little bit especially that 2011 one at Wembley you mentioned the games against Celtic and Rangers Tarek picked out 3-2 against Celtic in the group stage in 2006 atmosphere was class game was mint good times overall to start the best three years of football that I've ever seen and I think

Lee said, one night that stands out to me at Old Trafford on a European night was when we played Jose Mourinho's Inter. Ronaldo and Vidic both scored headers. It was more memorable for the chanting of Jose to sit down Mourinho, calm down Mourinho, and then finally, bye-bye Mourinho. I love Jose at Old Trafford, but it was nice getting one over him that night before he eventually joined us.

There's another Mourinho night at Old Trafford, which I'm sure we'll talk about in the nights to forget. But let's do the one that stood out to most people then. Manchester United vs.

Roma won. Dalia sums it up Andy, it had everything but it certainly had goals for Manchester United anyway. Yeah the context of that was that United lost the first leg 2-1 in Rome. There was a lot of trouble in Rome. There was innocent Manchester United fans being attacked on the way into the stadium. There was Manchester United hooligans attacking Roma fans. So there was trouble outside the ground at Old Trafford but big

big, big match at Manchester United with Alan Smith. This was probably Alan Smith's finest hour as a Manchester United player scoring in a 7-1 win to set up yet another semi-final against an Italian team and that was AC Milan. But brilliant atmosphere that night and if you score in seven in a Champions League game

quarter-final against players of the calibre of Daniele De Rossi and Francesco Totti. Wow, we were good, weren't we? Well, yeah, exactly. The start is what's been picked out. Manchester United were 3-0 up inside 19 minutes.

Cabello says,

of their lives. Motion, Gerry, Thomas, Andreas all picked it out. Andreas says, I was a young Brit who'd recently moved to Rome when we lost the first leg 2-1. The people I know were cock-a-hoop, but I managed to get a ticket for the return leg for what turned out to be one of our very best ever European home performances. It was the most magical of occasions. Everything they touched flew in. I'll always remember arriving in Rome early the next morning and

picking up a local paper whose headline simply read, Incubo a Manchester, nightmare in Manchester. One of my best mates actually grew up in Oldham, but grew up an AC Milan fan because his dad played football, never took him to watch anyone, and he ended up being able to watch Italian football on Channel 4, supported AC Milan, and they told me for years about how Italian football was better than English football. I managed to get a ticket for him, sat next to me for that game.

and we've not had the argument since so that was very very special indeed well we can't talk about Manchester United's home record in Europe really without looking at the other side of history and some of the games where there was disappointment for Manchester United straight away for me we mentioned Jose Mourinho earlier on in the podcast well his Porto side beating United in 2004 stands out I wrote an article at university entitled a

a flag and a flap, which was me being very bitter about Jose Mourinho's ascendancy into the top level of management in European football because I felt that if it wasn't for an incorrect flag from the linesman ruling out Paul Scholes'

that was disallowed for Manchester United on the night and Tim Howard flapping at the free kick late on for the equaliser. I didn't think at the time, Laurie, that Jose Mourinho would be someone we'd even know about. Sliding doors moment. I think you were very astute there because obviously he basically got the Chelsea job off the back of that and came in with this special one statement. And I suppose we're talking again about incorrect statements

offside flag against Porto after David May's remembrance. I mean, what is going on here? Yeah, controversy, eh? I remember that one. Benny McCarthy scored brilliant goals in Porto. Oh, that was away, wasn't it? It was away one. But back at Old Trafford, the same Benny McCarthy who supports Manchester United had very mixed feelings about

and Jose Mourinho told him off Manchester United's home form in Europe is so much better than the away form but there were some rare defeats at Old Trafford Milan won 1-0 in 2005 on the way to playing a team called Liverpool in the final in Istanbul there were rare group stage defeats Besiktas won at Old Trafford

Athletic Club won 3-2 in a very famous game in 2012 of course Real Madrid have had their odd results as well but yeah the defeats are pretty rare at Old Trafford yeah this is an interesting one from Duncan Quinton actually he's

Interviewed for United We Stand, I was asked, what is my proudest memory as a Red? And I said it was the 97 defeat in the second leg of the Champions League semi-final at Old Trafford. Throughout the game, we missed chance after chance and Dortmund scored to make it 2-0 in aggregate. But as the final whistle blew, thousands stayed behind for more than 20 minutes, singing, we won the Football League again. A really defiant sentiment from the United faithful.

I remember that night and it was in the same sort of spot as for the Porto game in the North Sand 2-1 and I actually remember that

to Duncan's point I thought they were singing it for the final 20 minutes as well like before the final whistle so it must have been going on for ages but that song just was on loop over and over again that show of defiance and I agree with Duncan I actually in defeat I felt more sort of I don't know satisfaction and more happiness than perhaps sometimes you do in victory Right before we finish it's not been as glorious has it Laurie but can we just round off some of the post Ferguson modern era European ties I guess I

To be honest, Eric Ten Hag in the Europa League beating Barcelona, despite the fact it wasn't a semi-final or even a quarter-final or even the last 16 tie, was pretty good. Shane picked that out. It felt like we were building something special with Ten Hag. Plenty of great memories from that night, including the Samba boys, Fred and Anthony, getting the goals. Moran's post-game fist bumps to the crowd like we've won a cup final.

Well, we did three days later. And even cheekily enjoying when Bruno kicked the ball at Frenkie de Jong as if to say, thanks for wasting our time chasing you the previous summer. There was even a post-game chat about a potential quadruple that night. A great night to be at the stadium and a fantastic memory. My memory from that game was walking around from my seat to the press box to record the podcast and people literally skipping out of the ground, hugging strangers,

It felt like a really good night, that, didn't it? Same for Jesse as well. I know it's not the Champions League, but it felt like a massive night anyway. Finally poised, or poised finally at 2-2, just like the Lyon fixture. Fred and Anthony scored bangers in the second half to dispatch Barcelona. Atmosphere incredible.

more of that please. That was a great one. Alex B as well. See, for younger fans, Laurie, this is the thing you forget. We're talking about the 90s with Misty Eyes. Well, some people don't remember that far back. So for them, Ronaldo in his second spell at Old Trafford and the incredible record that he had in the Champions League, he only added to that really, didn't he, when he came back. So Alex,

Villarreal September 2021 Ronaldo's return season scoring a last minute winner at the Stretford end and I've never experienced an atmosphere like it special for me as I was able to bring my dad along as well Atalanta 2021 2-0 down at half time end up winning 3-2 thanks in part to a great volley from Alex Tellez and Ronaldo popping up with a last minute winner so they're both from Alex

This one's very random as well. Hannah, I don't think you'll be expecting this, but one of my best European night football memories is the 13th of October, 2022, United won Armonia nil. What? I can't say that stands out, but she says, why? I hear you ask. Yes, why indeed, Hannah?

The only reason was a player went down injured and due to the concern for the injured player, there was a lull in the stadium noise. In this decline of volume, a fan two rows in front of me decided to stand up and voice his dislike for the ammonia manager, hurling one of the best football insults I've ever heard. Neil Lennon, I hope you stand on a plug.

A McTominay winner in the 93rd minute of that match probably felt like Neil Lennon standing on the plug. And I'll always remember the insult first. Yeah, that's a random one, but it shows that...

There are different memories. There are very, very recent memories that stand out to people. Absolutely. And that's why we asked for your thoughts and your memories and your opinions, because everyone's got something different. And that's what makes going to football matches special, because you get these moments of absolutely random, I don't know, yes, human emotion coming out. And that will then last in your mind, won't it? So, yeah, I love that from Hannah.

We're here for the quirky memories, certainly. Yeah, definitely. And let's hope Manchester United add to our modern memories when they take on Lyon tomorrow.

on Thursday night but before we finish I need to ask you both I need to press you into picking out your favourite ever European home games for Manchester United Andy what are you going for? Barcelona 2008 semi-final poor Scholes best atmosphere of this century oh what a night Manchester United were going to a final which we won against Chelsea in Moscow that was the best of the best

Laurie? Well, we haven't actually touched on it, but the Man United 3, Barcelona 3, I'm saying from 98-99. Okay. Group stage game. It's a left field shout for the end of the podcast. Is it? Do we think it is? I just think it has everything, right? Because it obviously teed up what was then to come

in Barcelona's home ground. They'd obviously drawn 3-3 away as well. And I just thought the goals were brilliant. I mean, Beckham's free kick stands out. I think that was to put United 3-2 up and maybe a victory would have really solidified it as a standout moment at Old Trafford. But I just thought even in a draw, 3-3, two teams attacking football full of expression, I don't know, just really stands out for me.

Yeah, and I'm going to go for a game where Manchester United went out, which seems perverse, really, considering the glory that we've had over the years. But that Real Madrid 4-3 game, to me, for the reasons that we touched upon earlier on in the podcast, it just felt like the best of the best at Old Trafford and Manchester United beating them, going toe-to-toe, the drama of Beckham, the whole thing, really, the whole package. It had jeopardy, it had glory. United won, but they went out. That, to me, I think is my favourite.

That's one of them, a starter for three Manchester students from you know who, Ruud van Nistelrooy. That's got the game on again, Solskjaer again, driven at Casillas, it'll come out for Brown, for Van Nistelrooy! Casillas saves on the post.

It's almost as if the pitch has been tipped up the other way. Suddenly Manchester United have the wind in their sails and Real Madrid are looking a little ragged.

OK, thanks so much for listening to this extra episode of Talk The Devils. Thank you so much for getting involved as well. We love it when you do. You can always email us and get in contact on social media. The address is devilspod at theathletic.com. We'll be doing another extra, another couple probably before the end of the season. So if you've got suggestions of what you'd like us to talk about, then please get in touch.

But that's it for the episode. Laurie and Andy, thank you very much for being with us. We're going to be back on Thursday to react to whatever happens at Old Trafford in that second leg against Lyon. Let's hope that one also begins with a piece of commentary. But for the moment, thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed that as much as we did. And we'll see you on the next one. Take care. Bye-bye. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.