TOTD EXTRA: United’s search for the ideal Amorim striker
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This is Talk of the Devils Extra, a special bonus episode of the podcast coming to you now twice a month where we have the chance to focus in on one of the biggest talking points facing Manchester United and of course answer more of your questions as well. Get involved in the conversation in the comments or you can email devilspod at theathletic.com. Make sure you include extra in the subject line or use the hashtag TOTDX on social media. If

If you want our reaction to defeat at Tottenham and a pretty frank conversation of where United are at and the job that Ruben Amarin is doing, go back and listen to the last podcast. Our round-up of the week's news and the preview to Goodison Park will follow on Thursday.

Hello and welcome to the very first edition of Talk of the Devils Extra. This is going to be a twice monthly bonus podcast which gives us the opportunity to go deeper into the biggest stories around Manchester United on the Athletic. We're going in at the deep end today as well. How do you solve a problem?

like United strikers. We'll assess the current crop of forwards and look at why they're struggling so much. We'll look into Laurie's piece on The Athletic last week about how the club's summer striker search is shaping up. And we'll also hear from Carl in conversation with a former United striker to understand how he coped with the burden of being the Manchester United number nine. All very exciting, isn't it? I think. Hello, Laurie. Hello, Carl. Hello, Andy. We're here again.

Interesting opportunity this, Laurie, to delve deeper into this particular topic because your piece last week, for obvious reasons, had a lot of traction. Yeah, I think it's worth getting into on a more specific basis because it feels the big issue at Manchester United. There's goal scoring. We touched on it in the podcast after Spurs. 10 matches in the Premier League out of 25 where they haven't scored is an atrocious ratio. It's relegation capacity.

kind of form. So yeah, what is the solution to that? The transfer market feels like one answer at least. And so the piece was trying to address who they could possibly go for, who they are unlikely to get, who they've looked at in the past and where they're at now and how it's so interesting the

rising and falling expectations or prestige around certain striker targets. Yeah, we can get into the details in due course, but I feel like it's an interesting topic to address in this extra podcast. Definitely. Victor Jokeres is the name that jumps out straight away. He seems to be the name that's repeatedly mentioned by anyone looking at speculation for Manchester United's search for a new striker. Kyle, how exactly do you think he fits with Amarim's style then? We know that it worked at Sporting. Would it work at Old Traff?

Ooh, that's a good question. I mean, yeah, we know it works at Sporting. Would it work at Manchester United? I don't know because I've seen many a talented striker turn up at Old Trafford and all of a sudden they forget to make a near-post run. That's the challenge. Manchester United's goal-scoring issues, yes. A lot of it is to do with the current array of strikers and lack of other options. There's also huge problems in the build-up play.

Unfortunately, something I think I'll be saying a lot on this extra is strikers don't come cheap. No, and that is definitely an issue for United. There's no question about that. We'll come to that, certainly. Just on Jacarez, Laurie, is he on Amarant's list, do you think? I think he probably would be. He's...

been the guy that's fired sporting to a comprehensive league title last season and was looking on course to do the same this season until United interrupted that particular union. The issue though there, as Carl's touched on, is the money involved. This is a player who is going to command. He's got a £100 million release clause in his sporting contract

We think that Sporting would accept less than that, something like €70 million. But even so, that feels too rich for United from what we're told, described as unlikely, Jokeres coming to Old Trafford in the summer. He's a guy that's going to be 27 at that point. So the...

strategy from Ineos for Jim Ratcliffe and the people beneath him has been to go for younger talents, emerging talents, which is why where we're at it feels like that one isn't likely at the moment. Yeah Andy, the issue for United with attracting players like this, finances obviously are a problem but also the offer of European football as well and the appeal of coming to United at the moment in 15th place in the Premier League as we speak now is an issue. I

Obviously, there's still routes into Europe, there's still a route into the Champions League as well, but in order to attract the very best talent, they're going to need that to offer, aren't they? Yeah, if you're playing European football, if you're playing Champions League football, it's much more attractive. Also, when you're playing Champions League football, the wage structure tends to change and players have some clauses invoked when Manchester United are not playing Champions League football.

Also, just a general perception around the club, it's not what Manchester United once were. This isn't a pre-eminent force. You're not going to be playing necessarily with premium world-class players. They're the type of things which always excite footballers.

You know, you can be playing alongside Cristiano Ronaldo or Wayne Rooney or Carlos Tevez or whoever. Those days are long, long gone. And it's just the reality of where Manchester United are at the moment. It's a club playing in a big league. It is a huge football club. You're playing in front of 74,000 every week. United do have money, but it's not as attractive as it once was.

Just a small point on Gokhar is, yeah, for sure, he will have options, right? You feel like in the summer, you know, and maybe much bigger options in the current state of affairs than Manchester United. So I should actually add that in as well. He has his own agency in this whole equation. He's been on Manchester United's radar for a long time. He's been on short lists. And I say short lists, that might be nine strikers. And what do Manchester United look at? Well, there's

A football perspective, will this player fit into our system? There's a financial perspective. What are his wages likely to be? What is a transfer fee likely to be?

Could we get a green light from the club, from the player? So there's a number of factors here. And then United look into sub-factors. Is it a short-term option? Is this player injury-prone? That's how United come up with the type of players that they're looking at. You said that Jacarez obviously will have his choice of clubs. Benjamin Sesko is another player, Andy, that Manchester United have long been linked with. Another striker who is likely to have his choice of clubs chosen.

should he wish to move in the summer. How likely do you think he would be to be a target this time around? He has been Manchester United's top target in the past, the number one. So I mention a shortlist. This is someone who we've seen as high quality, long-term option for Manchester United. United have looked at what his probable fee would be. Is the player attainable? I don't have any current information because that's the stuff which is most closely guarded.

as to whether Manchester United want Benjamin Sesco but he's certainly been in the past right at the very top of the tree Now there's a lot of conversation about Sesco going into the summer Arsenal were definitely giving a look at him I think Newcastle were also interested in him as well and then Sesco

to continue his journey with the Red Bull Sporting Group and now he's at Leipzig and he is a good football player and will probably be a good striker for the coming years he can absolutely whack a football some of those long range goals he scores are incredible highlight reel things

But when Andy says, yeah, he talks about the shortlist, the shortlist system at Manchester United is an interesting one in that when they are whistling down their list from 50 football players in a different position to 25 or even to five, the player that eventually emerges as number one can come down to who the manager is. So when Manchester United were looking for a centre-back, their shortlist got down to a five-person shortlist. One of the players was the Sancho Martinez. One of the players was Pau Torres. And there were some other players there and Eric Ten Hag preferred to

to get the Sanjo Martinez. So we'll see, you know, maybe how Amarant's taste in strikers may emerge in this summer as well. Yeah, just on Cesco, they definitely were looking at him last summer before Joshua Xerxe, but as Carl's touched on there, he wanted to stay where he was. I think he signed a new contract. They've looked at him in Eric Ten Hag's first summer as well, but he, at that point, felt that being the number nine, I think he was only 19 maybe at the time, at United, a scale of club...

as big as United was not for him and I think that's probably an astute move wise decision but they even go back to when he was at Domzale this is the kind of crux of what you can criticise United for I think in that he was available for 2 million euros United were kind of fiddling around at 1 million 1.1 and they just didn't ever come with the money because they weren't sure about him at that point but I think the

new version of United feels like they're willing to take these kind of chances perhaps and yeah but in hindsight that one looks like a wrong choice not to kind of just go and pay the money for the kid at that point. The football club could have got player for under 5 million and now player is going to cost 75 million debate is always a hard one because there's no guarantee that if Manchester United had found that 2 million Cesco would be this good unless you absolutely get your loans right if you got the right stability and the system around him because Cesco

especially when you're a striker, you do need a couple of years of consistency, a couple of years of working with the same sort of wingers. While I'm sure Saka will cost someone a lot of money eventually, even if you went into a time machine and grabbed him for two minutes, I'm not necessarily sure he'd still be this good. United have got those emerging players. They've really tried it. I mean, Diego Forlan and Giuseppe Rossi became top, top-class strikers and Manchester United had them in young players.

but didn't quite work out for them at Manchester United. So they go and flourish somewhere else. That's partly because Manchester United Academy, while it brings in lots of players, very few of them are strikers. And you've got all these multiple factors as to who you go for next. So Victor Oshiman was one. Manchester United looked at him and thought, OK, there are injury risks with the player. But when Manchester United sounded...

Napoli out, the figure put back to United was 110 million. So at that point, Manchester United cut loose. So these chats have happened, but Man United are like, we can't go there. So get the players young, brilliant, but it's not an exact science. There's players who are world beaters. Evan Ferguson is someone who Manchester United were all over. Absolutely not to the level of Sesco, but just below that level.

His career trajectory changed, didn't it? I was actually really excited watching him come through, which for an opposing player, you're like, whoa. It was that Rooney-like... Yeah, throwback figure, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah. Liam de Lappe's a bit of that as well, Laurie, isn't he? He's another player that was mentioned in your article, a former Manchester City player.

academy product or still a Manchester City academy product actually but yeah he's another player Premier League experience for him likely to be cheaper than some of the other names that we've been talking about is he a real possibility for United?

Yeah, this is the one I want to get into because it feels like that has some substance to it. From my perspective, they've definitely looked at him. Jason Wilcox, who is the technical director, was the academy director when Liam Dillat was signed for their academy. They sold him to Ipswich for something like 20 million pounds.

deal worth £20 million anyway so a lot of money for a player who hadn't played in the Premier League before but what a season he's having he scored again at Villa Park lovely finish 10 goals in the Premier League now for him that is some going and when we talked about Ahmad's importance to Manchester United Liam De Lappe is even more important to Ipswich

So what I'm told is that if it's which go down, the fee would be within United's finances. If he stays up, maybe not. It's an interesting dynamic, that one. Chelsea are also, of course, all over him. But I feel like that's a really intriguing prospect because he fits into that young player that Ineos are after, but he's got that season of experience.

and he is a bulldozing kind of figure isn't he to Carl's point he can also hit a ball very hard it seems and obviously he's got a father in Rory who also knows how to take a long throw so maybe that could also be part of United's strategy going forwards

Just showing off your sort of Barclays man knowledge there, Laurie. Oh, yes. What about the buyback clause that Manchester City have reportedly got for De Lappe? Is that a complicating factor? Yeah, so that was an interesting detail. I think I was the person to sort of reveal that to the level. Anyway, £40 million. On our podcast you are, so carry on. Perfect. Podcast exclusive. Yeah, £40 million is their buyback is what I'm told. And so I suppose that means that if...

they think that he might end up going for 60 million in the summer they theoretically could buy him back for 40 and then flip him and make 20 million profit again on him I don't know if that would actually work I guess there'd be some FIFA regulations that might cause a bit of an issue there potentially but you know I don't think so so

I suppose it just sets a gauge, right, of what people feel like he might be worth. So that's the kind of ballpark figures that we're talking about. Let's get to your suggestions then. In Laurie's piece, there was also Harry Kane mentioned. We talked about Osherman before, Brian and Bermo even. Harry Kane's got a release clause that reduces. So that's the only reason I was sort of thinking, you're saying there's still a chance? Well, yeah, let's see on that one. He wants Champions League football. So yeah, we need a date in Bilbao in May being successful, don't we?

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In terms of people getting in touch, though, thank you for all your emails. If you want to get in touch with us in the future for the extra podcast, make sure you include extra in your email subject, devilspod at theathletic.com. You can also use the hashtag TOTDX on social media. Kieran did exactly that.

Ivan Tony, Ivan Tony, Ivan Tony. I think that ship might have sailed to the Middle East, to be fair. They never made a check on that in the end last summer, by the way. Is that right? Okay, so there was never a firm interest there then. Adam says, Jonathan David, could he be an option for United? Josh also mentions him. I'll paraphrase exactly what he said, but United don't have much money, according to him, so free transfers are...

should be central to the summer planning. Kevin's mentioned Mateta, who we talked about with a little bit of mischief when he scored at Old Trafford in the Premier League. And yeah, anyone stand out to you from those names, Carl? Jonathan David's people are very good at keeping Jonathan David in the shop window of social media. I think he's a good football player. I said this a little bit about Tell, he has that sort of anti-Marchial, sometimes a left winger, sometimes playing up front quality about him, which...

depending on your perspective, is either useful because you're versatile or can be quite frustrating as sometimes you want a number nine to only be a number nine. Those other forwards, these are good players, but the real difficulty here for Manchester United is they need a

They need a bags man, to use the Barkley term, right? You need someone who comes in and goes, you're right, boys, I'm going to score two goals for you today. Do not worry about all the other stuff. To get that, you've got to spend a lot of money, especially in the modern era of the Premier League, where it's not just that I need you to score two goals. I also need you to lead the press and do a bunch of other things. When you start outlining all the things United need from a striker,

It's not a ridiculous shopping list of attributes, but it is an expensive one and it puts you in competition with teams like Chelsea. I'm sure Arsenal are probably looking for a striker this summer as well. The annoying thing is, even if you try and make the cheap and smart signing, you will probably end up finding yourself in competition with another one of your Premier League rivals because they also need strikers.

From last year, Xerxe was the one who came. And he wasn't Manchester United's top target, but he was the one who got. Lois Openda, who plays for Red Bull, he was someone who Manchester United looked at as well. But there's all these moving parts, as Cole quite rightly says. So if you look at Rasmus Hoyland, Manchester United feel they got him because they had a pre-existing relationship with Atalanta, which went back to the Ahmad deal.

Right at the death, PSG and Tottenham both offered more money for Rasmus Hoyland. PSG really pushed the boat out. They said, we're going to give you whatever they give you, free access to Euro Disney or whatever they click in. But Manchester United got the deal done. I like your point, Carl, about...

players who are very prominent in the media. So I had one last year where an agent was saying, you know, Manchester United really want this player, that person's client, by the way. And I checked it out. I'm like, no, we've looked at him, but he's like eighth choice for that position. And then the agent said, no, no, absolutely going to happen. No, no, no. You want it to happen.

But that doesn't mean that it's going to happen. And it's very important for us in our job to differentiate. And I trusted my sources saying we liked him, but he's not quite right for us. But there's a few people who are pretty good at that. Yeah, there is. And maybe that's to their credit in this world of bullshit that we live in. Well, they are good at it. And obviously that is something that all of us will have to decipher exactly

Manchester United's firm interest between now and the summer as these names continue to be mentioned. You said there though, Andy, about Joshua Xerxe and about Rasmus Heuland. They are the current Manchester United options for the centre-forward spot and our data writer Mark Carey has been taking a look at exactly why they've been struggling so much this season.

It might be better to start by saying that these are very different profiles of player in the first place and Laurie outlined excellently in his article last week with the help of data from Skill Corner that Hoyland's game is built more on runs in behind, runs into the channels and often looks to get himself into the box more to attack crosses. Whereas Xerxe is far more likely to want the ball to feet, to come short for the ball and he's the sort of player who likes to stitch attacks together with

Neat flicks and touches that find runners beyond him. Always has been a big part of his game at Bologna last season as well. Xerxes has never been the type of profile of player to spearhead the attack on the last line.

to the numbers and it doesn't necessarily make for great reading. Just five non-penalty Premier League goals between the two of them is obviously not good enough for a team of Manchester United's stature but it's not as if either of them are hugely underperforming against their expected goals which many people will know is a metric, a measure of the quality of the chances that they have. If they're not getting the chances in the first place then that's more of a team-wide issue I think and

To put some numbers to that, they're taking 13.3 non-penalty shots per 90 this season at the team level. And that's the 12th highest in the Premier League.

The simple numbers alone are quite damning for each player. Among forwards with 900 minutes or more in the Premier League, Xerxes' two shots per 90 is good enough for the 36th ranked player on the list of 58 in total within that cohort. And Hoyland's 1.2 non-penalty shots per 90 is 55th on that list, which goes a long way to telling you the story that

many United fans will already know and it's been a long-running story itself, a long-running narrative but, Hoyland's just simply not found enough in the attacking third and I think that's one of the major issues and we've seen it so many times where he's been screaming for the ball and he's just such a frustrated figure when his teammates just don't make that pass even when he's in a good position. Looking at the number of passes received by Hoyland in the Premier League,

Bruno Fernandes, as expected, has found Hoyland the most but it is quite telling that Lissandro Martinez, Nusayr Mousraoui and Andre Inanna has passed to Hoyland more than Ahmad Diallo, Alejandro Garnaccio and Kobi Meynou this season. So you can blame Xerxe and Hoyland for their attacking output to a certain extent but I think there's a couple of caveats. The first is that neither has ever been really the most prolific in their careers.

Xerxes' best season in the league from a goal scoring perspective was 15 goals for Anderlecht in the 21/22 season and Hoyland's best has been 10 and that was last season for Manchester United as well. So that's the first caveat but I think the second caveat is a crucial one that they're not being helped by the overall attacking coherence of Manchester United as a team. To a certain extent it's on the players but I do think it's a team-wide issue as well.

Thank you, Mark. Some fascinating data and numbers in there to explain the problem, really, that United have got with centre-forward. Laurie, the biggest takeaway from that is that the team's going to have to function better, no matter who they sign in the summer, if they indeed sign anyone in the summer, in order for this goal-scoring problem to improve. Whoever you put into this situation, it can't be helped.

it can't just be a magic wand kind of fix and this unicorn player is going to solve all the problems it's going to be understanding with teammates trusting teammates because I think we saw again at Tottenham maybe a couple of moments where players weren't picking out Hoyland or he perhaps wasn't making that run that that

would then force the pass to come. His best chance probably was the long ball that Harry Maguire played into him, which is something that they missed with Lissandra and Martinez being out. So I guess I wonder if that's something that they're going to try and work towards. He judged the flight of the ball much better than Ben Davies in that scenario. Got the ball cut inside, had a shot. That's what you want to see from your centre forward. Likewise, actually later in the second half where he gets absolutely taken out by Ben Davies,

but picks himself up, doesn't feel sorry for himself and gets on the end of a ball where Garnaccio does pick Dorgo on the overlap and then he plays it first time into Hoyland, a snapshot and it's a really good block actually that stops that. So they were really good moments from Hoyland and I think it was that sort of three shots he had, two sort of on target in the game, that is way beyond what he usually takes in matches as Mark sort of touched on there. So,

Yeah, that has to be a full team thing. It can't just be one person solves everything. Joseph said on the athletic comments section, Hoyland doesn't take enough shots in each game, but I generally don't see how he can until we start creating for a striker. The same problems will continue. Jim said, Hoyland appears to be exactly what Amarim wants. From the data in your article, Laurie, about the types of runs that he makes, the types of aspects to his game that there are, him and Jokeres compare perfectly.

pretty well other than obviously putting the ball in the back of the net I mean there must be a way to get more out of what United have already got Andy surely yeah the service to the strikers this year has been an issue throughout if you go back a couple of years Eric Ten Hag was absolutely explicit he wanted Harry Kane he was disproven

catch-all player. His nationality would have lent himself more to playing towards Manchester United as well. But it was all about cost as well. So compromises needed to be made. And the club are very clear about this. We're going for a younger emerging player in getting Rajmus Hoylan. And we've seen enough of him and we've seen his record in the Europa League, which is decent. But we've also seen him

starved of service. We've seen him coming back too deeply. A player that we shouldn't forget and should be part of this conversation, of course, as well, Chido Obi, who we should congratulate. We didn't do that on the last podcast. Making your Manchester United first team debut at 17 and just 17 is absolutely incredible. And Laurie, I wonder just how much he should factor into the forward planning for Manchester United in this position, but maybe also the current situation between now and the end of the season. I think he has to be considered. I mean, I...

hadn't thought that he would get to this level this season. You know, he came as a 16-year-old and maybe the circumstances have forced this. You know, Ahmad's injury, Marcus Rashford going out on loan, Anthony going out on loan. There's a sort of dearth of attacking options there and certainly the way the strikers have been going. You want someone that is in scoring form. He has 12 goals in 12 games for the youth team, scored a hat-trick in the FA Youth Cup, has that

nose for goal and after the game, Amarin touched on that saying that's why you've sent him on for loose balls. Maybe he could find a finish in the box. That seems to be his big attribute and I wonder if he does grow more as the season progresses. There's the Europa League, there's FA Cup matches. So I think he's certainly...

now feels like an option how much he's been training with the first team hasn't been a load so that needs to start if he does see him as a genuine option but certainly United when they signed him very pleased to get him from Arsenal I'm told that the appeal for him was that ability to play in the first team you know that that

pathway was spelled out for him is a United fan as well from what I'm told which always helps a little bit so whilst we kind of have to make sure we're measured in our sort of approach on him I feel like he now has to be part of the conversation around United's attacking options. Definitely a player to keep an eye on but let's take a break coming up we'll hear Carl in conversation with a former United forward and a cult hero.

So we've been taking a look into the future then, but what can we learn from Manchester United's past? Carl, your new cult hero series started on The Athletic, speaking to a former Manchester United number nine in Louis Saha. Now, he was a January purchase. It was an interesting move at the time to steal a player from another Premier League club. That's what United could do back then, even in the January transfer window. But let's hear from Saha on his move to Manchester United.

Yeah, I feel like I'm part of the United family straight away. I feel like really welcome in the best way possible because those guys, you know, were stars in the country. People think that they're kind of arrogant, but in some way, like, you know, they are big men with big characters and all that. And you feel like you need to adapt to a certain type of

and pressure and basically was the opposite I felt like those guys were family man with the smile but dedication to the sport that I felt really felt easy about it and

Basically, I still see some really top, top players up front. So I was with Solskjaer. I was with Van Nistelrooy. So I really straight away understood that I could learn from those guys. A young boy called Cristiano Ronaldo arrived. So I was really looking for this challenge. And I know that based on the amount of games that those guys were playing, the competition that they were involved in, I will have my say. And I know that we look at

how I went to the transfer in terms of thinking about what will be my role. I knew that I had different qualities from the players. I was like a bit more, let's say, mobile, maybe a bit more, yes, up in the air. Ruud was the proper number nine. I was more someone that could go behind and distribute the game of the opposition that way. And, you know, I had...

The chance to play with two terrific players growing up, like, you know, when you have like Ronaldo, when you have like Rune, you know, it was competition, but I was growing with them as well. So this transition time was very exciting, competing in the best way. And I just wanted to put my hand on trophies. And basically those guys were absolutely amazing.

obsessed about that. Luis Jaha there is talking about the step up to Manchester United, embracing the challenge of Manchester United, the same sort of challenge that the players have got now, of course. But having those others around him, how important did you get a sense that was for him? Ruud van Nistelrooy, Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney, all there when he walked through the front door. Yeah, he described them as competitors. He said, these guys, they just hate losing.

in everything and he said it created the challenge he said it also created difficulty obviously because Louis Sire was there for four and a half seasons but also he spent quite a large amount of his time at United injured he missed quite a few games and he said there were times when he was injured and he's missing six weeks however long he's always concerned about other guys that train because he knows those guys aren't going to give up their slots easily when he returns

And something I also found interesting talking to Saha was how he saw his own game and how it contrasted with the other attacking players at United and how he thought, we're okay. If Van Nistelrooy's good at this, Rooney's good at this, and this is good at this, how do I fit in? And how do I maximize what I've got to find into that spot as well? And this is, we can talk about halcyon days under Ferguson, but when you think about the stability of,

And just the way things kept ticking on and how even if you had a problem, there'd be someone else in that United squad who can help you with your problem and a time to help you with that problem. And how that just isn't really the case in modern day United.

If you're surrounded by brilliance, it's going to make you a lot better. I always remember Patrice Evra describing Sahar as a fighter, someone who fought against his injuries. And also speaking to Sahar himself, telling a horrific story about how he got an injury in Moscow just before that Champions League final and just ringing his wife,

absolutely distraught he said it was like a searing pain at the top of his calf like an electric shock I tried to hide it but it was too serious shows the reality of the lows of being a top class professional footballer Louis Sahar was an excellent player he had a top top attitude but injuries just battered him away and to the point that he had to move on

Take the injuries away, actually. Louis Saha would walk into most Premier League teams now at his best, wouldn't he? And obviously that's a player that Manchester United has taken from a lower Premier League side. There are similar options to that, like we were talking about Liam De Lappe earlier on in the podcast. But generally, it seems like everyone's after a number nine. Do you think there is a shortage across the board and Manchester United will have a problem that there just isn't the same depth

depth of option in the transfer market for United to go and get a number nine this summer. It feels that way, doesn't it? I mean, I suppose it's always difficult comparing does the mind play trick on you in terms of how many there were back in the day, but it does feel like there was a wealth of players that wanted to be the guy to score the goals in Sahar's kind of time and yeah, for him to actually have to try and displace Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Rooney, although he says Rooney, it's sort of like he's an exotic player from the continent. I love that.

but is that because of coaching levels now where the head coach style is more prominent and it's players fitting into a team and not having that licence necessarily to go and make a change and Donny Ariola speaks about that at Bournemouth doesn't he where he wants his players to try things and take players on is that something that isn't necessarily coached as much these days Arsene Wenger warned us about this in 2013 did he? there's a

Good piece from Amy Lawrence, where she was writing for a company that's not the athletic. Wenger gave a quote where he said, well, in 2013, if you were looking for strikers, you will probably have to look for them more in South America because of the way we're coaching players in the academy system, that we would essentially coach out that ruthless,

selfish streak that is integral to loads of number nines and Wenger thought you'd have to go to South America a little bit more if you want to get top strikers Interesting point isn't it to flash back to that let's bring it back to Saha though if we can because the major factor for him as well is that he was arriving at Manchester United and he played at Manchester United under perhaps the greatest manager of all time

was the best because it was able to really have the right communication with different type of players, where to motivate you, in a way to challenge you, like play with your ego. It could be a granddad and the next day could be your best friend. And it's like, really like you're always on your toes, especially as a,

as a forward, as a striker, if you tend to be cautious because you're 1-0 down or you're drawing because you are under pressure, you play outside your stadium, so you're aware you don't have those

of confidence and all that. This is exactly at this moment in time that the team has the foundation, but the talent has to be expressed at some point. You have to be unpredictable. You have to be courageous to do things that nobody expects. You know, it's that. You know, you give...

your, let's say, chance of expressing yourself because you work hard in training and this is a foundation, but then it allows you to compete at, let's say, a normal level with everybody because everybody is kind of fit or quick or whatever or strong. But this is where you win games is because you are capable of being very focused on details and very aware that a game is switched like this and you need, at this moment in time especially,

to be courageous enough to do things that are not going to be expected, not even by your teammates. This is courage. This is like taking risks, but in an organized way. You know, it's like, okay, you have to really work hard. It's the base. You have to really not thinking twice about helping your teammates or whatever. You have to do the extra bit because...

every player will make mistakes. So if you don't do extra things and you expect that you have just done your job, you're done. It just doesn't work with Manchester United. You have to do the extra. Yeah, lovely to hear those brilliant memories. This is the challenge, isn't it, Andy, for Ruben Amorim? I feel like striker more than maybe any other position, the man management is so important and this is something that he really needs to get right.

with Hoyland and Xerxe between now and the end of the season and anyone else moving forward, of course. Yeah, and I think he does collaborate. He does talk to his players. There is a compassion there. I think emotionally he's very intelligent, but there's not one method for all the different players.

goals breed confidence Manchester United are not scoring enough goals I see merit in both Hoyland and in Joshua Xerxe but we're talking at a pretty glum time get some goals things will pick up but it's also the hardest thing to do and they're the hardest players to find and there's not many of them around and the ones that are around they're very expensive

That seems like a decent summary of the entire podcast, to be fair. Laurie, Kyle and Andy, thank you so much for being with us and thank you for listening along to our very first edition of Talk of the Devils Extra. Let us know what you think. You can email us devilspod at theathletic.com. Remember to use the word extra in the subject line. You can also message us on social media. Use the hashtag TOTDX.

And of course, we'll speak to you on Thursday's podcast when we preview Manchester United's final ever visit to Goodison Park to take on Everton this weekend. And we'll also round up the week's news because there's never a dull moment with Manchester United. And that's exactly why we need these extra podcasts. I hope you enjoyed that. Thank you for your company. And we'll speak to you again. Take care. Bye bye. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.