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cover of episode United dump Arsenal out of the cup at the Emirates

United dump Arsenal out of the cup at the Emirates

2025/1/13
logo of podcast Talk of the Devils - A show about Manchester United

Talk of the Devils - A show about Manchester United

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(
(播音员)
A
Andy
REAL AF 播客主持人,专注于讨论和分析时事新闻和政治事件。
C
Carl
L
Laurie
Topics
播音员: 曼联在点球大战中战胜阿森纳,晋级足总杯第四轮。比赛过程精彩激烈,展现了两队之间的激烈竞争。 Ian: 我为曼联的胜利感到兴奋,这是我近期在播客中讨论的最佳比赛之一。 Carl: 我永远不会厌倦曼联在客场对阵阿森纳时打进反击进球,这场比赛曼联展现了顽强的防守,门将表现出色。 Andy: 曼联球员之间展现了团结合作的精神,这最终帮助他们取得了胜利,即使曼联输掉了点球大战,许多球员的表现也值得称赞。巴延德尔和泽尔克西的表现令人印象深刻,特别是泽尔克西打进了制胜点球。曼联球员的状态变化很快,泽尔克西在比赛中的表现比之前更好,更接近他在意大利时的状态。阿马德是一个非常尊重对手的球员。泽尔克西罚点球时,我感到紧张。曼联在少一人作战的情况下坚持到点球大战,这是一个巨大的成就。曼联球员在比赛中展现了战士般的精神。泽尔克西在比赛中表现出色,并打进了制胜点球。 Laurie: 巴延德尔的表现值得称赞,他在比赛中做出了多次关键扑救。巴延德尔的表现是他的一个突破,他的两次点球扑救都非常出色。巴延德尔在比赛中的表现令人印象深刻。巴延德尔是一个谦逊、随和且受欢迎的球员,拥有令人印象深刻的针织衫收藏,并且喜欢模仿曼彻斯特口音。替补门将的角色并不容易。巴延德尔在比赛中的出色表现克服了一个巨大的障碍。曼联需要在足总杯中走得更远。巴延德尔的扑救非常出色。巴延德尔的英语水平还可以。巴延德尔在曼彻斯特的生活更加安定,他的个性也更加外向。巴延德尔对球队的影响力越来越大。曼联在比赛中展现了韧性,与1999年的半决赛重赛有相似之处。曼联球员在比赛中全力以赴。乌加特在比赛中的行为有些危险。我希望阿森纳和曼联之间存在竞争。曼联需要一些对抗性来激励他们。曼联最近的表现有所提升。马奎尔在比赛中的表现令人印象深刻。德利赫特在比赛中的表现展现了阿莫林想要球队展现的精神。阿莫林正在塑造一支具有竞争力的曼联球队。马奎尔下场时,我感到担忧。马奎尔在比赛中的表现令人满意。马奎尔曾经是曼联非常重要的球员。我认为点球判罚有些轻率。一些曼联球员最近的状态有所提升,这增加了球队获胜的信心。阿莫林对球队的改变很大,并且取得了不错的成绩。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What was the turning point in the FA Cup match between Arsenal and Manchester United?

The turning point was Turkish goalkeeper Altay Bayandir saving a penalty from Martin Odegaard during the game and later denying Kai Havertz in the penalty shootout, which allowed Joshua Zirkzee to seal the win for Manchester United.

How did Manchester United manage to win the match despite being down to 10 men?

Manchester United showed resilience and strong defensive performances, particularly from Harry Maguire and Matthijs de Ligt. Altay Bayandir's crucial saves, including a penalty stop, and Joshua Zirkzee's winning penalty in the shootout were key to their victory.

Why was Joshua Zirkzee's performance significant in the match?

Joshua Zirkzee's performance was significant because he scored the winning penalty, redeeming himself after a difficult period where his Manchester United career seemed uncertain. His quick ball release and awareness were closer to his impressive form in Italy last season.

What challenges did Altay Bayandir face in the match, and how did he overcome them?

Altay Bayandir faced challenges with his kicking accuracy in the first half and a shaky start, including a poor punch that led to Arsenal's goal. However, he made crucial saves, including two penalties, and stood firm against Arsenal's set pieces, earning him the player of the match title.

How did the Manchester United players show resilience after Diogo Dalot's red card?

The Manchester United players rallied together, with strong defensive performances and key saves from Altay Bayandir. They maintained their composure, defended resolutely, and ultimately secured the win through a penalty shootout.

What was the significance of Bruno Fernandes' goal in the match?

Bruno Fernandes' goal gave Manchester United the lead with a superb finish, showcasing his ability to deliver in crucial moments. His leadership and composure were vital in guiding the team through a tough match.

How did Manchester United's performance in this match compare to their previous games?

Manchester United showed a marked improvement in resilience and teamwork, particularly in their defensive efforts and ability to counter-attack. This performance built on their recent results, including a draw at Liverpool and a win at Manchester City, indicating a positive shift under the new manager.

Chapters
Manchester United's 10-men team secured a dramatic penalty shootout victory against Arsenal in the FA Cup. Altay Bayindir's penalty saves and Joshua Zirkzee's winning penalty were pivotal moments. The team's resilience and performance despite being down a player are highlighted.
  • 10-men victory against Arsenal
  • Altay Bayindir's penalty saves
  • Joshua Zirkzee's winning penalty
  • Resilience and strong performance despite red card

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
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Gabriel's been caught out. Garnaccio has Hoyland and Bruno Fernandes to the left. It is Bruno Fernandes! One chance, one goal for the United captain. There will be an Arsenal penalty. This for the lead. Saved by Bayerder. There's his moment. It stays 1-1. Joshua Xerxe to get Manchester United into the fourth round draw. And he does just that.

The ten men of Manchester United have got the job done at Arsenal.

Sounded good that, didn't it? This is Talk of the Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. It's Sunday evening and we are here once again to reflect on a victory of sorts for Manchester United. A dramatic penalty win at the Emirates to go through to round four of the FA Cup. Redemption in there for Altai Bayende and Joshua Xerxe. We've got Ruud van Nistelrooy's Leicester to look forward to.

I'm so happy that you brought this up straight out the gate, Ian, because yeah, I am glory hunting this evening. There's been times when I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on podcasts before and I've been on

I have been planned, even though I've been off with absences and I've been planning to come back on. This one was totally, I saw the game, I thought, I need to talk about this afterwards. So thank you for having me. It's good to have you here, of course. Carl, you've just made it back to your hotel room after being at the game.

Yeah, that was fun. Good, that won it again. You're not half-cut this week, though. That's the only downside this week compared to last week. Yeah, sorry for gabbing too much last week. Maybe it's the Cockney Red in me, but I'm never, ever, ever going to tire of Manchester United scoring a counter-attack goal away at Arsenal. Oh, no. It's always...

a sumptuous treat and just a really good backs against the wall performance from United I think huge shifts from Harry Maguire and Matthijs de Ligt in particular one of the greatest reversals I've ever seen in a goalkeeper bad first half good second half an extra time from Bayern there like well done mate well done you think about how well United defended with 10 men against an Arsenal team you went into that

Before the penalty shootout, there was a little moment when Ugarte and Onana were G-ing up by Indir, proper pushing and shoving him, going, you got this, you got this, you got this. And I'm going, this is good. The United team isn't at the level of Ameren Sporting, but they are beginning to understand that if you graft Rebic,

really, really hard, it will come. Yeah, Andy, if you work hard for one another, you're a team and teams can achieve things, right? Simple as. We saw evidence of that at Liverpool away last week, so I was more confident going into this one. Were you? Yeah, I was, but when the draw was made, I didn't think United were going through. There was two draws, Tottenham and Arsenal away, and I just thought, kick a man while he's down. And Arsenal...

a decent at home. A Manchester United record at the Emirates is atrocious. Today was the biggest away allocation. I think going back to the 90s, I can't think of anywhere where we've had more than 8,000 tickets since then. I'm going back to your Wimbledon's away in the Premier League and stuff. So it was a big one. I'm delighted with the result. I really am because...

Even had United lost on penalties, which I know we're going to discuss, I thought so many of the players did so well. Yeah, they did. And it was redemption, like I said at the top, Carl, for a couple of players in particular. You said about Altai Bayon Deer turning things around in-game, but how good was it to see Joshua Xerxe score the winning penalty? Only what? Is it about 10 days ago, that moment against Newcastle where he was taken off and...

It felt like his Manchester United career could end then. There's been rumours about him going in January. That seemed to have been put to bed in David Ornstein's column last week. But stepping up, sending United through, that's the way to do it, isn't it? Absolutely. Has that only been 10 days? I think it has, yeah. This is how quickly things change in Manchester United. 30th of December, wasn't it? Something like that. Are we at the 10 days stage yet? Just a touch past it, maybe. Yeah.

less than two weeks ago there you go Amrin said sometimes in one week your life can change and said against Tottenham everyone's pointing the finger at Altai and he was the hero and then Joshua he had a small problem with the fans and yet you could see every single touch he had

the fans were cheering him it really was a really good away support and it was really good from Xerxe in that he was releasing the ball just a touch quicker there was just a bit more zip apart from when Ahmad was offside gonna say that one the touch was just a bit quicker the awareness was just a bit quicker just a little bit more I'm gonna get into these

that I haven't seen from him in the United shirt. This was closer to the one that, the Xerxes that impressed so much in Italy last season. And it was really nice. Just a really good moment. Laurie is very good at doing penalty analysis. I don't know how he's got either like a spare pair of eyes. Oh yeah. Because when you have to report on penalty shootouts, you've got to have one eye. Is that actually going to go in as the penalty? And he also, for colour, you always got to look at the sideline, see who the coaches are looking at and whatnot. And that's always a handful.

And there was a great bit after Xerxes scores. So half the team is going charging up to celebrate with him. But Ahmad and Malasia stayed in centre circle just to shake hands with the Arsenal players. So that adds, you add Ahmad's handshake of Pep Guardiola after the derby to his one against Arsenal. He's a very respectful winner. He just wants another meme, doesn't he? Mr. Ahmad, he knows what he's up to. He's aware of the internet.

Andy, can we just home in a little bit on Xerxe and can we be honest for a moment? Anyone nervous when he stepped up to take that penalty? I was most nervous with Martinez. I don't know why. I just was. Left foot, isn't it? Always. I don't know. That was the one. But just to get to penalties was an achievement because Diogo Delo, that was a really poor challenge for that yellow. He did very well last week. He didn't do well last week.

So to get to the end of 90 minutes equal, to get to the end of extra time equal with 10 men, I thought would be such a shame to go out of the FA Cup. Again, just Manchester United have been so down this season and it feels really nice. Just, I'm not going to say look because,

They were warriors today. They really earned that win. Seven or eight of those players were eight out of tens. And the players who were so good, it couldn't have happened to better people like Xerxeak because Weinbach, 12 days to the Newcastle home game and his situation, which changed a lot at Anfield last week.

But compared to today, I thought he did well when he came on. He combined very well with Ahmad a couple of times. And I think he probably forced Raya's best save of the day. But I think there was a slight deflection on that. And then to get the winning penalty. Well, now he's genuinely making a name for himself, isn't he? In front of the away fans, brilliant. Against Arsenal, brilliant. Love it. Yeah, absolutely. Really, really pleased for him. And to hear...

well robin van persie's song really isn't it the the seven nation army chant by the white stripes echoing around the emirates to oh joshua zirksy just felt quite poetic and perfect as well i'm sure the arsenal fans weren't triggered by that tune whatsoever i always love that chant real robin van persie anyway um can we talk about bayonet a little bit more laurie because um

Well, actually, Carl, what did Ruben Amarim say about him playing this game in the press conference? Because you were there on Friday in the press. I'll come back to you in a moment, Laurie, if that's okay. What did he actually say about him starting? I'll admit I sent a text message to you in surprise that he'd said this, but anyway. Yes, so Amarim was asked about basically the turbulence that's occurred at United recently. And he said, you're seeing there's less rotation now.

happening right now and he gave the example Manu was playing more than Casemiro which I thought was an interesting thing and then he was asked by Samuel Lockhurst which goalkeeper would start and he went that's a good question but it would be Altai to start and that was it he didn't really drill down into it as far as he's concerned Bayern Dier is the cup goalkeeper and Onana will be the league goalkeeper and that's how you work out your share but

And I admit, similar to you, I thought this would be a huge test when you consider he didn't have a great performance against Tottenham, not just about the Olimpico goal, but I think his kicking wasn't great, particularly in the first half at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. And I think that there's things, parts of his game that he will need to develop as well.

And again, there were parts right in the early stages where his kicking is perhaps not where it possibly should be. And I think you can maybe say some of this is down to ring rust. If you don't play, unless it's a cup game, it can be quite hard to get your kicking radar. Fifth appearance in 18 months. Exactly. And I was fearful, particularly on set pieces, what Arsenal might do. Something that was quite interesting at the Emirates was basically whenever Arsenal had a corner kick, Amarim would sit down and Carlos Fernandez would come out on the touchline and then you start barking orders at

There was one free kick in the first half in particular where I watched Carlos shout again and again and again and again about where he wanted United players to stand in their respective zones. We've got a great piece from him.

Ahmed on the Athletic about why United aren't the best at set pieces and it's about how the shift in zonal and man marking and whatnot and he sort of was barking over and over and over again about the back post coverage in particular and then just as the Arsenal set pieces being delivered he walked away in half disgust at the fact they weren't precisely where they needed to be but something's really really important for this United team like you've seen right now is they got first contact to the ball and

So perhaps they aren't exactly 100% clued up on where they need to be standing and everything they need to be. But when you've got players like Maguire and De Ligt going, ah, screw it, I'm just going to jump higher and stronger to you for certain things, that can get ahead. There was a bit quite late on in the game where I saw a mad...

almost clamber on top of Jorginho to get ahead of him. I'm going, yeah, these boys, they've had their Red Bulls today and that'll do. Well, yeah, and they've needed to improve from set pieces as well. I have to admit, I do find the sort of Arsenal obsession with this a bit...

It was tedious, to be honest. And they take forever, don't they? It's like an NFL game. It's like, oh, let's get the playbook out. Which one are we doing today? Put an advert break in there. It's all the narrative around it as well. I mean, they're even singing songs about the set-piece coach and stuff like this. It's just like, is this what it's come to? I mean, Arsenal, even what, last season, extremely exciting team to watch, but they're just so...

difference or how they were before. Anyway, let's keep it focused, Laurie. I was asking you about Altai Bionde, player of the match, saved Urdegaard's penalty in normal time, saved Havertz in the shootout, six saves in the game, including two from Rice, which were really important towards the end of the match and stood up to the set pieces as well. And considering what happened at Spurs not that long ago and what happened in the first half and what happened with the first goal even,

really does deserve a hell of a lot of credit for what he managed to produce. Yeah, for sure. And I think you could see the warmth from Bruno Fernandes after the game towards him, pushing him towards the away fans, which looks an incredible away end and he's right to touch on because it looked like they came all the way round to the press box. Even Amron admitted he didn't realise quite how far the United fans stretched.

And then to have the penalties in front of that end, does that kind of play into what he's able to do as a goalkeeper? But I agree with you. I thought it was a real breakthrough for him because we've not seen anything of him, have we really? And obviously that...

goal against Tottenham is the thing that will be remembered or would have been remembered about him up until this match and I think you can maybe question could he have caught the cross that then Arsenal scored from but the way he responded to that the punch wasn't great but I mean both penalty saves were absolutely brilliant I mean sometimes you get a penalty save from a goalkeeper and it's a poor penalty or he's telegraphed it a little bit I mean David Raya by the way

what was he doing for some of their penalties? I mean, Joro's penalty was absolutely superb, but it didn't need to be that good to beat Raya, who'd obviously stepped about a yard to his left. But by India, both of them, I mean, the Odegaard one, you get such whip on it. And then the Havertz one as well, it's fingertip stuff. It has to be full stretch and committed to it. So absolutely brilliant penalty saves. And then, yeah, in kind of open play, the save from,

Rice, wasn't it? The header and then the save low down. Two really good saves. And he was loving it, right? Wasn't he? It felt like this kind of game where, okay, we've gone down to 10 men and we maybe will touch on the similarities to 99 and the semi-final, maybe. No chest there this time, unfortunately. No pitch invasion. But the way that the players kind of

gathered themselves after that red card, I thought really showed a great resilience. And I think Bayon Deer was certainly at the heart of it. Yeah, he's a popular lad, I'm told as well, Bayon Deer. We've not seen him play much, have we? So we don't really know a great deal about him. I've done a few interviews with him and he's a very humble, very down-to-earth, polite and popular member of the United squad. Him and Andre Onana are a really good team together. But a couple of things about him. He's got...

A very impressive range of knitwear. He regularly impresses his teammates. Better than Carls? Better than Carls and better than even Ruud van Nistelrooy when he had that brief partnership with Paul Smith as Manchester United interim manager. And he also loves putting on a Mancunian accent. So...

There are two sort of interesting things about Altai, but he was the last one in the dressing room to all the players after the game. And you can imagine the reaction that he got in there. And you're right to point out the warmth from Bruno Fernandes. Andy, the sort of reserve goalkeeper is not...

It's not the easiest role to play, is it, when you're not called upon that often? And it's not the easiest when you've had appearances that have not gone well and then you're under pressure to come in and perform, which was pretty much a first choice United 11. I mean, the only other change was Garnaccio for Ahmad. It was a big call to start him, especially what happened at Spurs last month. And when he signed from Fenerbahce, given his status as an international and Fenerbahce's status as a huge club,

I thought he'd be more sort of Sergio Romero playing plenty of matches and it just didn't happen. And then he appears, I think it was Newport away. And you're thinking, why have you made this move? Because I think it's safe to assume footballers want to play football, but if he's going to be the FA Cup goalkeeper, then great. And got over a massive hurdle today, beating Arsenal away. You've got Leicester at home,

rare home draw again because we've had a run of a ways haven't we and um rude van nistelroy and this man united did really well to win the fa cup last year not going to win the league this year could retain the cup this year or at least have a cup run i was just thinking so much today we can't be going out the fa cup in the third round they'd only use the ball once then they've made a special ball this season for the fa cup winners so you know you need to at least use the ball twice yeah

Yeah, but his saves were fantastic. And there was another one from Declan Rice as well, like a free header. There was another reaction save just after 90 minutes. You could feel we grew in confidence. I know apparently one of the issues with Bayer-India's integration last season was communication. He wasn't the most confident communicator in English last season. And sometimes, especially when you're a goalkeeper, you do need communication.

those man on left right little bits of communication to your back line ahead his english is actually okay i mean i did an interview with him this season a few weeks ago which was for the turkish rights holders and i made it clear to him that i obviously couldn't speak turkish but i would ask the questions in english and he needed to answer in turkish so he answered in turkish and then got the impression i had no idea what he was saying so about halfway through decided he was then going to answer in english as well just to make sure that i understood um

How nice. Which I told him he didn't need to do, but I guess that sort of shows the personality that we're dealing with here. He's a very courteous man. From everything that I've been told, it feels like he's got a little bit more settled now in Manchester and he's got a little bit more... Again, you get a bit more settled and your personality comes through a little bit more and you could see within the game, post-penalty save, he's actually barking at his backline just a little bit more about what he wants there too.

Even that little word when he came out, when Xerxe was about to take the winning penalty as it turned out, it just gave him a little G up and a little word. Even little things like that just sort of shows the influence, doesn't it? Absolutely. Confidence, confidence, confidence. I thought his kicking was quite poor in the first half. Sorry to put a little dampener on your face. It's true. He was mad at a match, but his kicking was bobbins for the first bit. Cheers, Andy. Thanks, mate. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

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You mentioned before, Larry, actually, there was similarities with 1999 and that semi-final replay against Arsenal, what with a red card and a penalty save, United going in front and being pegged back. But it just needed that extra time winner, didn't it? I was thinking Ahmad was the likeliest to produce that. And they actually went kind of close. Obviously, Xerxe drew a good save out of Raya Uriah and he added a little deflection. And Ahmad with a header. But I thought it was going to be him maybe picking up the ball with a bit of space because Arsenal were trying to get the winner. They just weren't really...

taking advantage of the extra man because they were kind of dribbling trying to dribble past players rather than pass it round and you know just exerting that extra personnel that they would have had but yeah I was kind of primed for it to be you know this kind of extra time glorious occasion like in 99 you know FA Cup semi-final replay at Villa Park obviously just the child in me the

that occasion that I went to with my dad. But I thought United just... I thought every player committed themselves fully. And I don't know if we want to get into more specifics about Manuel Agarte's performance. So I thought... I was like, how has he not got a booking with this referee?

And with some of those activities on the pitch. He said he had been booked at one point and he hadn't as well. It was Cobby Mayne with the little flick of the ball away. I mean, Arsenal fans know all about getting bookings for players flicking the ball away. So I'm sure they were sharp on that. Especially English midfielders, yeah. I loved his reaction. I mean, maybe I shouldn't endorse this, but I loved his reaction to the Havertz sort of penalty, which is obviously so, so ridiculously soft and, you know, kind of head in his face a bit, but...

I'm very teetering on the edge of what's acceptable, but just about getting away with it and then Garnaccio coming in with the shove to the floor. I mean, that's what you kind of want in these games. Definitely. Let's show a bit of muscle. We can condone that, can't we? Yeah. Okay, good. I do believe Harry Maguire called Kai Havertz a shithouse.

after that penalty decision was awarded. Good Sheffield language there, yeah. Look, again, maybe it's the Cockney Red in me, maybe it's the Knights kid in me, I want Arsenal and Manchester United to not like each other because that's what these games are supposed to be about. There needs to be a bit more of that. This is what this United team needs at times, Andy, as well. A bit of nastiness, a bit of needle, a bit of edge, and if it helps galvanise them, bring them together and let them go to places like Arsenal and come away with penalty shootout wins. This is more like it, isn't it?

Listen to me. I'm agreeing with you. I'm nodding along with you. Not you, I'm just saying generally, yeah. Just getting excited. Sorry. Ian wants to play football next week now. Now? This team has got a grit about them.

If you look at the last month, gone away to Manchester City and won, got a draw at Liverpool and have beaten Arsenal on penalties. So despite the number of defeats, there are some real clear positives of the identity that this team is coming through. And we mentioned Xerxe,

We mentioned Bayon D, I thought Harry Maguire has been excellent under the new manager. I don't think it's well known, but he spent the last two days in bed before the game and he really wanted to play.

And he did play and he was magnificent, as was Matthias De Ligt alongside him. That clearance in front of Trossard, unbelievable. He has got a bit of acceleration to him. I know he's not the fastest maybe, but he can cover ground. I know you're rolling your eyes here at me. No, no. I think that block is a very good example of what Amarans United will be between now and the end of the season. Because...

De Ligt's positioning was perhaps not ideal and it puts him in a really difficult position to get to where he needs to be but the moment he twigs what he needs to do he's like well I'm just going to have to bust a gut and let's see what happens.

and he gets there and the more that happens the more you get buying into what Amarin wants from this team and so I'm not sure if this team's going to be good but they are going to be a nuisance and that will do for now Could I ask you Andy what did you think when Harry Maguire was coming off because I thought incredible what you just said there two days in bed to spend that amount of time on the pitch is ridiculous but I was actually worried because I was like he's one of my penalty takers and he's putting on Yoro oh it turns out Yoro's pretty good at penalties as well um

But what were you thinking in that moment? It'd been ill and he'd just played... It came off in the 103rd minute. So it played up around 110 minutes because there was a lot of time added on, wasn't there? I was just pleased that it had a really good game because...

It's not that long ago that he was being heavily criticised by football fans, not just Manchester United fans, where he became a bit of a comedic figure. And I thought he was at the centre of everything today. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer always maintained about him, he's first to everything. And we know what his strengths and we know what his limitations are, but I can remember...

Going back to May 2021, the month of Gdansk, he was one of Manchester United's most important players. And when he was missed, he was badly missed. I thought the penalty was a soft one. I felt that he was rightly furious. He was booked, but then who wasn't booked today? I think there were 10, 11 bookings. Arsenal players, apparently. Yeah, seven were from Manchester United players. So if we're talking about football,

Four or five players who've had really rough patches, which we have done, and they're coming out of that. That all adds positivity into this big pot of confidence. You've got a manager who communicates fantastically well,

And it just gives real room for optimism that he has made a massive change. He's changed the structure of the team mid-season without his own players. And he's getting results against some of the teams that are viewed as being the best in the world.

Yeah, I'll come back to what you said a moment ago about getting a result like this away at Arsenal after the draw at Liverpool and the victory at City. Kyle, we talked about it a little bit after that derby win at the Etihad, but a big criticism of Eric Ten Hag's time at Manchester United was his record away against the top sides. Just to repeat it, I think we mentioned it on that pod, but he only took three points from 10 matches away against the big six.

in the Premier League during his time in charge of Manchester United and now in what a couple of months basically Amarim's obviously had these three results now away I mean during that time he's still lost at Arsenal in the league he's still lost at Tottenham in the League Cup as well with a changed side but the signs are more positive that this United team are capable of going to difficult places and leaving with more than a 0-0 draw. Yeah I also I think the signs are there that

you know what this Manchester United team want to do. And there was a very pronounced period under Eric Ten Hag where it just became a model of just what does Ten Hag want? And the press conferences, you'd ask him, what is it? And Ten Hag's answers would really go around and around in circles and you'd come away deeply confused by things, or at least I was confused.

And I think there's just a clarity right now. I'm not sure if it's, again, I'm not going to call Manchester United good, but I do know what's going on, which is very clear. Amrin himself said to compare this game against the one against December, he said he thinks the first half in December was actually better and United still have things they need to improve on the ball.

The first 20 minutes in particular, Ameren spent a lot of time talking to Mainu and Fernandes and Ugarte about where he wanted them to stand and defend and how to nullify Odegaard. And there was a little bit in the first half where the ball went out for a throwing close to Ameren and Dalot picked up the ball to do the throwing and Ameren looked at him and went, no.

The throw-in is five yards closer to me. Come stand here. And again, it's these small, you know, Hamrin's spoken about tiny details he wants to get through to his team. And it's these little bits that are going to make United slightly better. Just being able to remember, stand exactly where the ball went out. When the other guy has a free kick, stand in front of the ball for maybe 30 seconds. Don't kick it to get yellow, but just the Sunday league shouts, shall we say.

that are so important to every game of football that perhaps weren't there towards the end of Eric Ten Hag's spell are coming back into Manchester United now.

You mentioned Ugarte. We've had an email from Alex, Carl. He says, I think it's probably important that Carl is given some space to offer a few words of apology about Ugarte after his scepticism in the summer. Carl, over to you. Go on then, Alex. Okay, so I do remember I said Ugarte's a player who gets a nosebleed when he gets into the final third when I was being mean about him. My fears about Ugarte were very much in relation to how I thought Ten Hag wanted to play going into the new season.

I saw Ugarte coming in and going, Ten Hag's like to play a midfield of Mainu and Ugarte. And I went, I'm not sure who's going to be the person to get the ball into the final third because Mainu's long passing isn't quite there yet or I haven't seen it yet. And Ugarte historically is not that sort of link player. How do you solve that? Well, you bring in

Ugarte's old manager from sporting and you change the formation so Ugarte doesn't have to pick the ball up from the centre-backs to pass into the final thirds because now the ball's being circulated by your wing-backs as well. But on top of that, Ugarte has got better. Amir was asked about this on the Friday about what have you seen in Ugarte since...

you work with him at Sporting and he said he's improved. When you play with PSG's players, you improve a little bit as well. He also said more than one occasion in the Friday's Prince Conference about how Manu's improving and how he said, you guys in England, sometimes you talk about Manu like he's the finished product. He's not. He has big potential and he has ways to go. And I think the way, if you do have the pleasure of watching United on Thursday against Southampton,

And it's Ugarte and Maino again. Really pay attention to how Amarin responds when those two are off the ball. He's really barking at those two players about what he wants from them. I think that's what's going to be the big thing for Ugarte. He's absolutely got better. You can hand me the humble pie now and I'll eat it. But also there's a way to go. It wasn't quite an apology that, Carl, was it? But I'm sure that response will satisfy us. Oh, hang on, hang on, hang on.

Mano Ogate, I'm sorry for saying you get a nosebleed when you entered the final third and I'm very glad that you play for Manchester United. You're very important for what this team needs to do.

Thank you, Kyle. I think we can all concur with that. Andy, another email that we've received from David said, just watch the Arsenal victory. And I wonder if you guys think the improved performances against Liverpool and now Arsenal are a direct result of Ameren having one game a week in the last fortnight, meaning that they actually have real training time on the pitch. What do you think? Yes, it's the one thing that he said after the Newcastle game. I think he said he'd had four days off

the team and as I mentioned in my previous answer to come in and change the way that the team's playing mid-season I've had people who I really respect saying to me you just do not do this you wait until the end of the season he was right to ask to stay at Sporting but Manchester United insisted that he came mid-season I had people saying to me Ruud van Nistelrooy should have stayed because he was doing alright but

Those type of comments will just fade away now because Ruben Amorim has got a very clear idea of what he wants. I like his honesty. I like the fact that he does give you detail, as Carl was saying, when you ask what you want from a player. You can see him on the side giving very specific instructions. Yeah.

He knows exactly what he wants from the players. And I think United fans are having him and he's certainly making an impact. That coat he wears sold out within weeks. You couldn't get one.

Sold out within weeks. Is this a man who tried? No, I know someone who did. And all you could get left were like... My mate tried to buy one. Yeah. Don't know what was left were for like four-year-olds or something like that. Sorry, Carly, I interrupted you. I just think it's very brave for a football manager, a Manchester United football manager to be wearing just tan chinos in the middle of winter. Yeah, we can't let that slide, can we?

surprised he's still doing it not sure not sure good man great man yeah just wear normal coloured trousers on the touchline for me but I'm nitpicking now maybe a little bit Laurie I poked you with it before but you know if there was an extra time winner in a Manchester United versus Arsenal game

FA Cup tie after a red card and a penalty miss and United going ahead and then being pegged back it would have kind of made your week and the pieces you wrote go full circle wouldn't it? Yes so you're touching on the piece we did with Ryan Giggs ahead of the Salford v Man City game which was something that

We had a discussion about whether to go there because it's obviously a very difficult subject, but we kind of felt that we didn't want to shy away from subjects that are tricky because ultimately the more you speak about things, I think the better understanding there is. And I can certainly understand. So basically we did an interview with him.

I tried to press him on his reason for being out of football. So he was back on primetime TV, really, because he's director of football at Salford. He's assisting Carl Robinson, the manager at Salford, because of a coaching reshuffle. In fact, a coach left to go to Manchester United. He's now coaching the under-15s. So Giggs was going to be on the dugout in front of the camera. So we felt that was an opportune moment to

just have a discussion around this guy who is, you know, by all intents and purposes, one of United's greatest ever footballers. Yeah. He's just out of the mainstream because of a court case, which, you know, revealed a lot about his private life. It was obviously unsavory allegations against him, all of which he denied. And he was ultimately found not guilty because the jury in the first trial couldn't reach a verdict. Um,

But still, he's kind of, you know, he's ostracised, right? He's not part of the kind of mainstream discourse around Manchester United, even though he's had such history with the club and, you know, even assistant manager, even manager for a caretaker spell. So, yeah, the interview was around that, you know,

the fact that he's not in the hall of fame, um, which I guess maybe is a trivial detail, but it kind of just is another point at which he is seen as being perhaps outside of what, uh, you know, the mainstream is. So, yeah, I thought it was an interesting kind of piece that, you know, it was, it was, uh,

Also interesting, the level of which United are involved with Salford. They're using the cliff, they're using Lyttelton Road, these places that are so steeped in United history. And I went there, it was actually my first time going there. I know Andy's probably going to think that's sort of sacrilegious to say that covering United, I hadn't been to these places before, but it was actually really interesting to see these kind of

training grounds where United's history was built under Sir Alex Ferguson. It's fascinating. You could make them part of the stadium tour in a way. I absolutely think so because obviously all the writing on the buildings is all kind of 1980s sort of style and they used it in the Adidas adverts didn't they last year as a kind of historic kind of

you know, nostalgic look at, you know, in your training kit. I think I've talked before on the pod about the fact that the, the sort of bathroom suite is still the same in Ferguson's office. The one where he could answer it on the phone, that one. That was a great story, that. Yeah. When he's on the loo and he gets an important phone call. I don't know if that's a live show story or one I've told on the podcast, but yeah. It's,

it's still the same toilet that Ferguson sat on his actual throne a knight of the realm no less yeah you can go and read Laurie's piece obviously about gigs being back on primetime television on a touchline on the Athletic obviously all the reaction to today's game will be on there as well just before we move on to Southampton though Andy Ruud van Isseroy is coming back to Old Trafford this will be nice won't it

Yeah, it'll be lovely. I found myself wanting him to do well, but obviously not in the FA Cup. I noticed his team scored six, I think, against QPR in the third round and they needed that because they've had some disappointing results. He's a top man, Rude, and I hope his team get comprehensively knocked out of the FA Cup, but it will be nice when he comes to Old Trafford with Leicester City. Didn't someone you know used to cover Leicester?

I don't know, Kyle. Do you know anyone who used to cover Leicester? Doesn't ring a bell, mate. Well, I like how we've got the Karl Anka derby coming up and maybe this could be my derby. I don't know. It is if you want to claim it. It is your derby. It is my derby. The Laurie Leicester derby. I'll claim it. It's right there. You watched them win a Premier League. Special memories. You did a good job with the gigs piece, Laurie, as well. I think it's well worth reading.

Just before we move it on, will we learn any more about the dynamic between Ruben and Rude? Do you think ahead of this cup tie, Andy, do you think there's any more to understand about the conversations that took place when Amarin arrived and Van Nistelrooy left? I don't think there is much of a dynamic. I don't think they had like a... Exactly. Did you see his post-match interview though? He sort of said, yeah, I spoke to Rude before he left and he sort of half stopped himself or sort of smiled. And I was thinking, you're thinking in your head, you fired him. I mean, that was basically what happened, right? Yeah.

Is that actually like what happened in your opinion, Laurie? Yeah, Amarin said he didn't... I mean, I think Ruud van Nistelrooy would have stayed had they been able to find him a space. Even if it wasn't at the same level of influence, you look suspicious. Fired him feels strong. Well, I don't know what other word is there for it. I don't know. Maybe he's not technically...

again I'm giving him his P45 but it's his decision that he's no longer at the club so okay maybe fired's a strong word but I'm trying to backtrack now in case that is any kind of legal ramification on it but yeah you know in football parlance I think that's what happened so

It's how they used to work for the Daily Mail. It's also the way that football works, isn't it? I mean, it was awkward because Rude had done really well. He'd only come back to live in England in the summer. He did very well when he was caretaker manager. I spoke to him loads and he just kept saying, I just want to help Manchester United. And he would have stayed, but he wouldn't have stayed in a really low position. And the fact that he's got a Premier League job now,

I think his, I know, I don't think, I know that what he did as caretaker manager really helped him get that Leicester City job. Yeah. And he beat them twice. That does help, doesn't it? This will be the third time that Manchester United have faced Leicester at Old Trafford this season. They've beaten them twice already. Both van Nistelrooy was in charge. Let's see what happens third time around in a few weeks' time. Right, next up then, it's Southampton in the Premier League at Old Trafford on Thursday. Karl Schumacher,

We'll talk about it being the Ancadar in a little while. You can give us a lowdown on your old club on the south coast. But Ruben Amarin and Bruno Fernandes both talked up the importance of this occasion after Anfield. Bruno Fernandes, I think, did it again today. And it's not about performing away at Liverpool or just performing away at Liverpool and Arsenal. It's also about producing something meaningful at home to Southampton on Thursday to prove that

that this team is improving and the last two matches are now going to be a benchmark for what's to come. Yes, absolutely. I think Michael Cox is writing a piece about

That would be out early this week about why Manchester United seem to perform better against the bigger teams from a tactical perspective. The quickest answer is the bigger teams also want the ball so there's more space in behind to counter-attack whereas teams like Southampton are more likely to sit deep. Do you think it is a stylistic issue then? Partially. I think Amaran on Friday also raised the point about physical effort.

he said you could see it at Anfield when the referee blew the final whistle players fell to the turf because they were really tired and he hasn't always seen that from Manchester United this is a thing that more than one Premier League manager has brought up this season especially if a team has a bad first half and has a better second half you go what was the difference and the managers are very much like well we thought we could cheat and we thought we didn't have to run in the first half

And I keep banging on about this. This is the Premier League era of six foot giants who run 10 to 13 kilometres per game. And if you think you don't, if you don't want to do that, you're probably not going to do well. And I think there are times where United are playing teams lower down the Premier League table and they think they can take their foot off the gas a little bit.

post-Arsenal, there was a little bit where Amarin was like, well, I essentially asked Amarin, is this idea you're trying to translate to your team getting better? And he gave an example of Garnaccio. He says Garnaccio wants to play a lot on the outside, which is ball into space, ball into open space you want to run. But also he said Garnaccio and Ahmad both need to learn how to play on the outside and the inside. That inside bit being when a team is sat deep, how are you going to essentially unpick the lock

He says, you do that, you're a more complete player. And that's the next challenge. I'm sure Southampton are going to try and play a little bit like how Manchester United played against Arsenal, a little bit like how Newcastle played against Arsenal, where it's two banks of five.

and how do United break that stuff down? And that's the next bit. You've got to run, and you've also got to be clever and not try and launch it every 20 seconds. Yeah, I'm not sure we should give a bit of credit to, actually, Andy. We didn't really talk about him much in the Arsenal review earlier on in the podcast, but that assist for Bruno Fernandes was brilliant, wasn't it? The right decision at the right time, which has been the major critical, sorry, point of criticism for him. Yeah, I was a bit surprised when he started. I think he was the first United player to, well,

He had a shot against Raya about 10 minutes before half-time. Speculative. Yeah, well, he didn't have any support to pass it to anybody. But that pass to set up that opening goal was superb. And he also had to cover more when Deleu went off as well. So he's been much talked about. I've written a piece touching on him in The Athletic, which went up today. But I think he did well. He was one of the better players. And United...

Attack is still complicated. You know, Rasmus Hoyland is... It's difficult for him. I think he had 18 touches today, which, even for a striker, is really low. And the Arsenal lads will probably be having 40, 45, something like that. And I don't have any...

Miracle answers there, but the team have not been scoring enough goals. Against Southampton, Manchester United have absolutely got to get three points because today was a cut win. The point at Anfield was absolutely of merit, but it was only a point. Manchester United need points for the Premier League. Southampton have won one match out of 20. The goal difference is minus 32 points.

If this is a new dawn of Manchester United, and I think it is, and I'm not talking about the corner being fully turned. Oh, this is positivity, Mr. Mittens. No, I've been positive of what I've seen against Liverpool and against Arsenal, but you've got to be beating Southampton. If Southampton are going ahead from a set piece after six minutes, you just, no, no, no, no. LAUGHTER

Laurie? Yeah, I was just going to say on Garnaccio, again, it was Fernandes, I think, pushing him towards the away fans after he'd assisted. And I thought that was a kind of nod to the stories that have been going around about him and Mainu, United not considering them unsellable if a huge offer comes in. You think Bruno Fernandes has been reading your pieces, Laurie? Is that what you mean? I wouldn't be surprised if Bruno Fernandes is aware of the general talk in the media. I think he's a very sharp guy and I think he takes notice of...

stuff like that and also he knows the people involved I'm sure he's I'm sure these kind of discussions happen in the dressing room right I'd be surprised if it didn't see what Andy Merton's written here in the athletic

And so I thought that was quite tough. I mean, his ball to Fernandes, it wasn't actually perfect, I don't think, because it was bouncing a bit. Oh, there we go. I'm just saying, no, no, it was a great pass. He did the right, you're absolutely right, it did the right thing. It just, what I was going to come on to is how good Fernandes' finish was. Amazing. It's a bouncing ball and he's caught it with his instep, curl it right into the, it just kind of shows you, you know,

Maguire's finish at the end of Anfield. I knew you were going to bring Maguire up. Because it was similar. You know, he's bouncing ball and that's what Fernandes can do. And you just think that it shows how difficult sometimes that can be. And you're going to roll your eyes again here because I did wonder with Hoyland in that move...

Was he running in the right kind of place for Garnaccio to look for him? It dragged the defender out of space. Yeah, no, that's fine. That's fine. Okay. I'm just saying it didn't necessarily look himself like he was going to get the ball. But yeah. How have you made like one of the best counterattacking goals United have scored in recent times into two negatives? It's not a negative. Fantastic goal is what I'm saying. I've enhanced the finish with what I'm saying. Okay.

One other point on the game. I don't think the referee had a good game. Do you not? That's an understatement. Had Manchester United not gone through, we would have been talking about that a lot, lot more. Yeah, Adam Crafton tweeted, like, Kyle, do you think officials...

aren't used to officiating now without VAR being an option for them and it changes the way that they can sort of take control of these matches. I don't know what you think. Maybe, maybe. I do remember former Southampton manager Ralph Harsin was saying in games without VAR you can defend differently. So when you have the benefit of the VAR your back line can stand further apart because the offside bits are going to get hit. So it definitely has an effect on

on how teams play. Yeah, maybe. Let's talk about the team then. In fact, actually, Carl, you just mentioned Ralph Harsenhutl. There's the name I've not heard. Please pull him up there, Ian, because, yeah, he's shoehorned that one in because he's just touching those Southampton links in here. I've not heard that since Carl Anker was the Southampton correspondent, I believe. That's a name from the past, certainly. I mean, what can you tell us about historically one of the worst Premier League sides there's ever been? I just think they've... Blimey.

they've not been very good, have they? That was a new noise even for you, Carl, there, to show how bad they've been. They don't score goals and they absolutely leak goals due to Russell Martin's assistance to play out from the back. Yurik...

please forgive me the pronunciation there, has come in as their new manager. And from the Italian football fans I talked to and the Serie A experts I talked to, he is a particularly prickly character. Someone wants to describe him as a madman. The problem with the Southampton squad is, quite frankly, they're not primarily quality. It's a team that came up through the playoffs and Russell Martin worked minor miracles to get them up through the playoffs. And they spent quite a bit of money

I feel. There's a good piece from Dan Sheldon on Russell Martin sacking. And there was the belief from quite a few Southampton fans when the summer window shut that the squad wasn't noticeably better because quite a bit of their transfer kitty was spent on making loan deals permanent. Suppliers like Flynn Downs and whatnot. For this United game...

I think the interesting bit is we're all quite giddy and excited about United winning the penalty shootout. A lot of those players have put in really big shifts. And now you're wondering, are you going to be able to turn things around for Thursday and run 90 minutes at the absolute desired quality to put away any team?

I think it was quite interesting that Amarin played Toby Collier over Casemiro and Christian Eriksen in central midfield. It was good as well, to be fair to him. Energy running beyond. I enjoyed that cameo very much. Well, it's his first minutes since he played at left-back in the 7-0 win over Barnsley in the League Cup. And he played right wing-back for a part of this game, did he? Yes, he did. I wanted to ask you about this, Carl. Was Martinez injured or was he just trying to get him away from the box for all...

Arsenal's crosses because he took a very good penalty part way through extra time Fernandes went over to Amarin and they had a quick discussion and that's when the change happened so I think Fernandes has told Amarin Martinez can't run anymore

But he can't hop. Yes, he can't run anymore. That's my interpretation of the situation and I'm sure we might find in the pre-match press conference about knocks and whatnot. Ahmad didn't start because apparently he took a knock in training in the lead up to the game as well. So I think there might be some changes between now and Thursday. I think Ahmad might start if he can prove his fitness. I think Koya might even start.

get maybe another appearance off the bench as well and I'm now I mean but I'll put it to you gentlemen if Coy is starting over Casemiro and Christian Eriksen what's next for Casemiro leave well the exit yeah that's what is on the cards the news out for both on that straight away we're talking there of Saudi again incredible talk

I think so, yeah. I mean, certainly it's credible talk around the departure, whether that actually happens this month or not, I don't know. But even when they were coming in, you know, Sir Jim Ratcliffe highlighted the Casemiro deal as one that he thought was wrong because of the age of Casemiro, the expense that it cost, you know, in the salary. He is one of, if not the top earner at United. I think him and Rashford are pretty close.

and so yeah if he's not in the squad if he's not playing sorry then they're going to be like well can we not you know make better use of that money so I thought you're right Carl I think it's really interesting that Collier came in he actually we got a question on this in the Q&A that I did on Friday on Thursday a lot of fans were interested in hearing about Collier which surprised me but I

that's good to hear because he hadn't been playing obviously under Amri and he was actually injured to start with the first three weeks but then he was in the squad last four matches and this is his first minutes and I thought yeah to your point I was told in the summer he was the one that Ten Hag took on tour that had the best chance of actually emerging this season you know despite the kind of focus on Harry Amas and other players and I thought

And just his energy is discerning. And I thought he showed that, didn't he, against Arsenal? I thought he was the perfect sub in that situation. Yeah, Andy, Amarim was asked about Marcus Rashford once again in the press conference after the game against Arsenal. He was asked the same question as he played his last game for United and he gave a similar sort of answer. Have you heard any progress on any of the transfer business that United are looking at in January from when we last recorded?

With Marcus? No, I'd repeat what the manager says. I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. He is a player for Manchester United. We'll see. He have to work. There's a lot of noise, but I've not heard anything. I,

I'm almost certain that the obstacle is financial and there's no more to it than that. I'm sure Marcus would be very attractive to lots of clubs and he would be amenable to playing football with somebody else, but it's a financial obstacle. Laurie Carl, any transfer tidbits before we finish? Just a titillate at the end of the pod.

Well, just on Andy's point, I mean, they're obviously looking around Europe, aren't they? I think we reported that Rashford's brother, Dwayne Maynard, was in Milan to talk to AC, for example. You talked about it on the last pod, yeah. Yeah, there we go. I couldn't remember, sorry. But I think there's other places that he's visiting. But the Kyle Walker one is interesting, actually. That's sort of a bit of an update. United in for Kyle Walker? I didn't expect you to say that. Blimey. Not quite. Will he play wing-back? Well, I guess he could do, to be fair, couldn't he? He'd be very good in that.

situation maybe no it's just that AC have been looking at him but I'm told that if he went then that would be the end for the Rashford to AC Milan because they can only have one more UK player in their squad I hope that's right because they have a UK quota go on you explain it Carl do you know this it's part Brexit and part

related reasons. Oh, so it's like a non-EU spot then? Kind of. And please forgive me, James Horncaster, for mangling some of your wonderful prose here. But Horncaster raised the point that quite recently a tax loophole for non-Italian players got closed. So it's a lot harder now for Serie A clubs to hit a certain wage point that makes Premier League players able to come over. So...

Yeah, it's finance-based and it's also passport-based. But also, if you're AC Milan, don't buy Karl Walker. Nothing to do with Marcus Rashford, but...

you don't need a 30 plus something right back who is in decline and going to sleep at the back post like no I think for an ageing defender AC Milan is the ultimate place to go and play your football I feel like you could do five more seasons there I just feel like they are like born to have they had Paolo Modini playing at 40 he's like 45 and Costa Curta was even older next to him

Under 30s listening to this podcast having no idea who Kosta Kirter is but go and have a look. He was quite old when he finished playing for AC Milan. Anyway, we have gone on a huge tangent. I blame you there Ian. You let the door open for that one. You asked us a question. I said transfer titillation. I didn't expect there to be sort of... This was loads of titillation. Brexit rules. I don't know. Anyway.

Isn't it nice to sit here on a Sunday evening with a huge grin on our face after Manchester United have gone and won another football match, however they did it, again, and showed the sort of spirit that you can really get behind. It's even got Andy Mitten being positive about what's to come, optimistic that Manchester United may have nearly turned a corner. That's enough for me. Thank you for listening. Andy, Carl, Laurie, thank you for your company. We'll see you on the next one after Southampton. Take care. Bye-bye.

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