United's Greatest European Away Games
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Hello and welcome to Talk of the Devils Extra, the bonus podcast taking you deeper on the biggest Manchester United stories from the Athletic. In this edition, we're delighted to be following up our episode on the greatest European nights at Old Trafford with a show all about the best away days on the continent for Manchester United. As always, there's been a great response, so thank you for that. So much, in fact, that we're going to do finals another day.

Maybe later this season, you never know. But thank you for sharing all your wonderful memories of the greatest games, the most memorable moments, and of course, some quirky travel tales as well. It wouldn't be a Talk of the Devils without a few of those. And it wouldn't be a Talk of the Devils without Laurie and Andy joining us as well. Gentlemen, welcome. We're hoping that we're getting everyone in the mood for Thursday with this, but we're going to start at the very start, if that's okay.

Andy Mitton, obviously, Laurie is our more senior member. Resident historian. Resident historian, to give him his full title. So Andy, Manchester United's first ever away game in Europe was? And elect. 1956, United won 2-0 and then won 10-0, which we discussed on a previous podcast, in the home leg. And then there was a game in Dortmund and then there was a game in Bilbao.

Yeah, weirdly. Any idea what travel was actually like for the players back then? I mean, were there even fans attending events?

Manchester United's first away game in Europe, for example. There would be a handful who travelled with the team. I spoke to the defender, Bill Fowkes, about that trip to Bilbao in 1957. And in his words, he said the following. Now, bear in mind, this is the year before the Munich air disaster. Fowkes said, I loved flying up to Munich. Nothing bothered me. And the plane could have flown upside down for all I cared.

We flew to Bilbao in January 57 in an old Dakota and the temperature on board was freezing. I'd fallen asleep with my foot on the lever which controlled the heat. My fault. It was so cold that the chairman, Harold Hardman, had to be rushed to hospital in Spain suffering from hypothermia. He missed the game and the flight home was because of me. The flight was bumpy on the way back. The cloud was so thick the pilot couldn't find the runway. He asked us if we could see it.

My impression of Spain being sun and sand were based on holiday posters at railway stations, so I was surprised that it was freezing with snow on the ground. It was our first season in Europe and we were unbeaten until Bilbao gave us a real going over in front of 60,000. The pitch wasn't good, it was covered in slush and mud and it got worse as the game went on. Bilbao had the best centre-half I'd ever seen, Jesus Garay. He was so good he kept Tommy Taylor quiet for most of the game. I'd never seen anyone do that.

The Basques were quicker and much fitter than us, but while we lost 5-3, Matt Busby instilled a confidence in us that made me think we could still handle them back in Manchester. He was right, but first we had to get back. There'd been a snowstorm and the players had to brush the wings clean of snow so we could take off. The flight home was awful. We had a terrifying landing when we stopped to refuel in Jersey, the Channel Islands.

That's crazy, isn't it? So this is before the Munich air disaster, which of course he was on board for. And it just gives you an impression actually of how treacherous and difficult

It was to be involved even in Europe for Manchester United. It wasn't. It was down to Samat Busby. He went against the wishes of the English FA. He was a trailblazer. He said, I want this team to play in Europe. I want to test my team against the best teams in Europe. And he was soon up against them. These are names we still see to this day. There were powers then and the powers now. Not Athletic Bilbao. We don't see that very often these days. It's a good question, but under Franco...

They had to change the name to be the Spanish, the Castilian Atletico Bilbao. It was only in 1977 when Franco went that they could change the name back to its original anglicised version, Athletic spelt the English way. And it's Athletic Club to this day. It's never Atletico Bilbao as it was reported then in the British media.

We stand corrected, Laurie, don't we? I just find that all fascinating. And yes, I'm glad that we've got some historical relevance to their name, you know, that I still struggle with, to be honest. But, I mean, snowing Bilbao at that time, it's scary to think back that that was sort of an ominous sign, right? It really is. And it was talked about at the time and viewed through the prism of history. It's ominous, as you say.

1957 then, obviously this goes on to, and they had a great run all the way to the semi-finals. Taking on Real Madrid, as you mentioned a moment ago, Andy, in front of a quite incredible crowd at the Bernabeu. 135,000 fans packed in to see United's game. That's often listed, well it's officially listed as the biggest crowd ever to see Manchester United play. Is it? I dispute it. I don't believe it. Were you there? No.

I wasn't there, mate. I'm not that old. I don't believe that the Bernabeu ever held that many people. And I've spoken to Spanish historians. I've spoken to the best Real Madrid writers. And they feel that the attendances were guesstimates at the time by the journalists who were there. I don't know that anyone who traveled with the press pack from England...

would have had access to an official figure. I think they've got together in a huddle and gone, this is massive. There must be at least 120. Let's go for 135. And it's reported as fact. I don't believe it. I think the biggest crowd Man United have ever played in front of

was 114,000 at Barcelona in 1994, that 4-0 defeat. Are you suggesting journalists might try and rev up a certain figure to get a headline, Andy? That is exactly what I'm doing, Mr. Whitwell. I don't believe it. The Bernabeu's been expanded three times since. There's no way Eld won 3-5 at the time. Look how passionate he's got already. Love it.

I'd love to know what the difference is between looking out at a crowd of 130,000 and 135,000 and deciding that that's the number that you settle on.

But obviously that was the season before Manchester United's tragedy of the Munich air disaster, the 6th of February 1958. And it was the team travelling back from a European Cup quarter-final away at Red Star Belgrade. 23 people were killed, including eight members of the Busby Babes team who had drawn 3-all in Yugoslavia to reach the semi-finals 5-4 on aggregate. Roger Byrne, Eddie Coleman, Duncan Edwards, Mark Jones,

and Tommy Taylor, who'd all started the second leg, and also Jeff Bent and Billy Whelan, who were part of the travelling squad. A fabled game, that one, against Red Star, Andy. Fabled. The most expensive match programme you can find from Manchester United's history. There were so few of them. You're paying thousands for that, and...

We know what happened. The players stayed in the Majestic Hotel in Belgrade. It still stands to this day. There's a big museum in there to Manchester United and Red Star were a great, great team. The team stopped to refuel on the way back in Munich.

This isn't the place to do the Munich air disaster justice. I'm sure we even do a different podcast on that. But the context of it was that United were returning from Belgrade. Obviously, the team were completely ripped apart by that accident. They did their best to rebuild in the aftermath of the crash, mentally, physically, practically, obviously mentally.

the thought of playing the semi-final even against Milan was, was difficult. It didn't take place until I think three months later, something like that when a very depleted team lost 4-0, um, in that away leg. Uh,

What's incredible for me looking back at it, Andy, is the names on the team sheet that night. Harry Gregg, the goalkeeper, Dennis Feiler, Captain Bill Fowkes, who you've spoken about before, who all survived the crash and went on to feature in that game. I think there's a couple of others who did the same as well. I mean, the thought of just three months later going back to play another away European game after that, I think that's unimaginable in some ways. And the bravery and the

determination that those players showed to carry on is incredible. Many of the players refusing to fly, players travelling over land. You mentioned the names who had been in a disaster. It's almost as interesting, the other names on there, Freddie Goodwin, Ronnie Cope, Stan Crowther, Kenny Morgans, Colin Webster. These were players who were drafted in, some of them from non-league teams. The team was managed by Jimmy Murphy. There was no way

that this team, however high in emotion they were, could compete with the great AC Milan and United lost 4-0.

And that was that. United would play in Europe, but it wouldn't be for another six years following the FA Cup win in 1963. It was a long rebuilding process after the Munich air disaster and the Phoenix would take a full decade to rise. But it's incredible that it did. Absolutely. They didn't get back in the European Cup like you were alluding to there until 1965-66 and the quarterfinal that year was

shot one man to international fame.

I don't think that Benfica have ever been demoralised like this. Yeah, George Best, El Beatle, I think as he became known around the time, that was the night that he lit up the Stadium of Light in Portugal, scoring twice within 11 minutes. And like I say, a 19-year-old becoming a worldwide superstar overnight. I love the stories and the images of

of best goal being shown in cinemas around the country, Andy, just so people could get a sight of how incredible he was in this game. A 5-1 win for United away at Benfica in the quarters. George Best became a real superstar that night. So into context, Benfica were great, far more established than Manchester United. They held up kick-off by 15 minutes so that Eusebio could be presented with the 1965 European Player of the Year title.

By Dennis Law as well, I believe. When Manchester United players were going to the stadium, the fans were holding five up. They thought they could win 5-0 and the United players were like, not a chance this is going to happen. It's a 10pm kick-off and some of the United players were nervous, others were not. And Busby just said, just take it easy, quieten the crowd down.

George Best just completely ignored that advice. He ran amok from start to finish. He slaughtered Benfica. He pulverised Benfica. He scored his first goal in the sixth minute, his second in the twelfth minute. Two minutes later, he set up John Cannelli to make it three. United were so dominant that two further efforts were disallowed in the first half. George Best was 19. He absolutely stunned 75,000 fans. And you know what Benfica's record was?

before that game in Europe, played 19, won 18, drawn one, lost none. Does that make it possibly the best European performance in United's history abroad? Yeah, yeah. Given the context, given what they'd been through, given what they would go on to achieve...

given the status of Benfica and, as Andy's saying there, the expectations for them going into it. That's got to stand out, hasn't it, as one of the greatest away performances in United's history? Oh, yeah. Oh, it's totally up there. And also, it was of the time. It was El Beatle.

because he brought that sombrero hat on the way home at a time when everyone in Britain thought that... Swaggering. Yeah, and he was a beautiful looking man. He was fashionable. This is all reminding me actually of a guy called Matt Best who I met. He's a listener to the podcast. I hope he likes his name being mentioned in Seville on a night out. He came up and said hello. And then he was, I think just at that point having his son and he called his son George Best because of nights like that, because of...

you know, those kind of memories. So I think that's his sort of tribute to a guy that obviously played a huge part in United's history. And hopes were so high, but United went out in the next round, in the semi-finals against Partizan, Belgrade, lost 2-0 in Belgrade and United won 1-0 at Old Trafford, which obviously wasn't good enough. And Paddy Creran was so angry that,

that he assaulted one of his rivals in the post-match dinner at the Midland Hotel. He wasn't a man for diplomacy, Paddy, when direct action in his mind could be more effective. Yes, but that frustration, that determination led them on to glory the following season. And in that run, remarkably, to the 1968 European Cup final and that incredible win over Benfica again,

United didn't actually win a single game in the competition away from home in the run to the final, which I can't believe. And when you look at the teams that they played, you said before, Andy, about some of the early opponents being very famous names. Well, no disrespect to the names I'm about to read out, but they're not quite at the level of that opening European campaign. So they drew United away at Hibernians in Malta against Sarajevo in what was Yugoslavia at the time.

And they lost in Poland against Gornik Zabrze. But it was the semifinal, really.

that lasts long in the memory, a three-all draw away at Real Madrid. Yeah, and you say that about those opponents. It wasn't like now. The pitches were completely different. They weren't uniform like they are now. Two of them opponents were behind the iron curtain. What was going on with the food? What was going on with the floodlights? There was all these little twists and turns. Sarajevo, that part of the world produces...

Top, top footballers. The Poles, they produce good footballers. But then Real Madrid in the semi-final, United win 1-0 at home. They go away to Madrid. They know it's going to be so, so, so difficult. United are 1-0 down after half an hour, 2-0 down.

after 41 minutes there's an own goal then it's 3-1 at half time to Real Madrid who do you think is going through when Real Madrid are winning 3-1 at half time Manchester United as Matt Busby pointed out we did score at Old Trafford it's only actually 3-2 if we get another goal then we've got an away goal Busby said one of the most incredible things and Pat Creran told me this because I worked with Pat on his autobiography

Busby started at half-time and said, well lads, we've been playing a defensive game and we don't play it well, do we? So let's go out and attack. We should be alright.

If we're going to lose, we might as well lose by six goals. The players couldn't believe what they were hearing. This was a man asking Manchester United to attack against Real Madrid away. But Busby was clever because he realised defending wasn't a natural game. But Busby had also been scarred by Munich and his tone became more and more emotional. And he looked at the players in the dressing room.

He said, now come on boys, believe in yourselves. We're Manchester United. Let's have a go at them. He kept saying it. We are Manchester United. Let's have a go at them. If he was desperate, and he probably was, then he hid it. We are Manchester United. Let's have a go at them. And somehow, United went out

And David Sadler, who is a defender, scored. And Bill Fowkes, who is a defender, scored. Why was this happening? Their own teammates were looking at them going, what the F are you doing up there, you complete idiot? You've just scored.

We're going through. We're going to Wembley. We're going to play Benfica. So you're saying that defenders scoring crucial goals in European matches is nothing new, Andy? I'm saying that. Some of the most important goals in Manchester United's history have been scored by defenders. And...

Bill Fowkes, David Sadler, great custodians of Manchester United. The likes of Charlton and Creran, they couldn't believe what they were seeing, but they weren't complaining because he scored. Yeah, I think it's like a front cover in that maybe or something. I don't know. Maybe keep an eye out for that in the coming weeks and days.

United, obviously, from that moment, went through, beat Benfica, as I'm sure everyone listening to this podcast is already aware. But after that, they made the semi-final the following year of the European Cup. But pretty much the next two and a half decades were about the UEFA Cup, the Cup Winners' Cup. United not really making much of an impact. Famous defeat on penalties to Vidioton.

of Hungary, which sounds more like a 90s shop that you rent VHSs from. Ask your dad if you're not sure what I'm talking about. I remember listening to that on Piccadilly Radio. I was devastated, mate. Devastated. Duke Le Prague, Videoton. The games weren't on TV, or if they were, they weren't on my TV. So I was listening to them on the radio and went out of Europe. Yeah, against the mighty Videoton, who I think, I don't even know if they exist now. Certainly, if they do exist, it's a team with a completely different name.

But this is where some of your memories come in. The first one is from Quentin. My first European game was away at Juventus in 1976.

United had qualified for Europe after bouncing back from relegation. We won the home leg 1-0 against a side containing six of the Italian national team. That was courtesy of a Gordon Hill volley. The best moment of our trip, though, came on the outbound flight, packed with United fans as we began our descent into Turin. Everyone started singing, we're going down again, because obviously United had only just recovered from relegation, like you said.

And after a pleasant few hours in Turin, we got thumped 3-0 and our coach had most of its windows broken on the way back to the airport. But thank you for that memory, Quentin. 1984, we've spoken about the incredible comeback of

on the last Talk the Devils Extra. By the way, if you don't know what we're talking about when we refer to the last extra, go back and have a listen. It was all about the best European nights in Old Trafford's history. But to have that great European night, they had to have an absolute disaster away against Diego Maradona's Barcelona, didn't they? United were beating 2-0 in front of 90,000. The players who were there...

say that they didn't actually play that badly. They felt that they might get a sniff at Old Trafford. People like Brian Robson will say that is the loudest atmosphere they've ever experienced at Old Trafford. United got a game in the semi-final against a top Juventus team with Michel Platini and United bowed out in the semi-final that year. Huge deal at the time. And then there was no European football.

until 1991. Laurie, have you bought your shirt yet? It looks pretty fresh, doesn't it? If only we had somebody on this podcast that could give us a hint as to the kind of merchandise that's around this reimagination of a momentous year in United's history.

1991 was big deal. No English teams had been in Europe. And I'm not reading the script from the film here. This is what I'm talking about. Sounds like it, yeah. You look good in that kit, by the way, Andy, I must say. Glad you've grown into your ears. Pexy Monkass, Wrexham, away.

One hour from Manchester? Yeah. Does that count as a European away? Yeah, definitely. Oh, yeah, yeah. I counted how many European aways I've been to just for this podcast, and Wrexham is officially a European away. If you want to take me to court and try and prove otherwise... What was the number, Andy? Did you find it? How many times I've seen Man United play outside of England, including friendlies, in all my life? 235.

You know, I never said this on the film, on that trip to Wrexham, I went on an official members bus. They were a bit straight, aren't they? I remember seeing two guys in front of me and I don't know whether they're still alive, Terry and Chinny. I've never spoke to them. They started the songs in the Stratford end. And as a young lad, you're like, whoa, I'm sat near them on a bus. This is like a major deal. They actually acknowledged that I exist. They've just let on to me and I've got a Wrexham. Life is good.

Life was good. Manchester United, of course, got all the way to the final that year. And a couple of years later, not only did they get to the final, actually, they won the entire thing. But you probably know that by now. And if not, have a look at Andy's film that's out at the moment that looks a great watch. And even just for the gear, I think it's worth watching. And Andy's hat is...

United were back in the Champions League just a couple of years later. We've talked about it on the podcast before, so I want to point you in the direction of a fantastic article that Andy wrote on The Athletic to mark 30 years since he was deported, the criminal, from Turkey and missed Manchester United's second round 0-0 draw in the Ali Sami Yen Stadium against Galatasaray. Welcome to hell by Andy Mitton's nonchalant.

Not welcome. It was later revoked, that deportation, to be fair. So we'll let Andy off. But the run after that, Laurie, I don't know, 96, 97, it was all about United building momentum. It was all about United improving domestically and improving in Europe. That era, I just remember a Smichel save. I don't know about you. Rapid Vienna away.

Well, that goes back to what we talked about in the previous podcast in terms of that kind of mystical feel to it. And it always seemed to be that there was fog across the pitch in a European away trip. If there wasn't fog, it didn't feel like a real game on the continent. Not from the pyros, no. Well, maybe there was pyros, but maybe it was just also the kind of humidity or lack thereof in the air. I don't know how these things work. Probably freezing in Rapid Vienna.

I remember Schmeichel. Coldest game I've ever been to. Ever. Oh, so you were there? Ever. Apart from the Kazakhstan one, which was obviously going to be cold. So did you wear joggers like Peter Schmeichel? Everyone was freezing, mate. There were 5,500 United fans. It was an amazing save and it was absolutely freezing. Yeah, the save people compared to Gordon Banks as well, Laurie, but he didn't have joggers and...

White socks on, do you want me to say? It's a bit hotter for Gordon Banks. This must be better, surely. I don't know. You've watched them both. It was a pretty incredible reach from Schmeichel. The athleticism, the fact the ball was almost past him. And yeah, Ron Atkinson immediately on the commentary compares it to Gordon Banks. And yeah, that whole era as well, the commentators, I just think, really captured the sense that this was something different and fun.

and you and yeah the way they spoke was just so compelling so yeah that kind of whole era sticks in my mind as something special Yeah absolutely obviously 97 United eventually got to the semi-finals and were knocked out by Dortmund but it was all about building up to 1999 which we'll come back to later

You won't find a better save anywhere than that. It was past him and he got it away. I'm telling you, that could be another one of Gordon Banks' job. That is an unbelievable save. Look at that.

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OK, the noughties. This next period, pretty much the apex of Sir Alex Ferguson and Manchester United in Europe in the Champions League. It's definitely a sweet spot for you lot because we had so many messages about this particular period. I'm sorry that we can't read them all out. But before United rose to the very top, Laurie, it was all about trying to get back to 1999. You know, the run to the semi-final in 2002,

knocked out on away goals. I don't know how still to this day they got knocked out by Leverkusen, to be honest. Probably similar to the Dortmund game in 97 that we mentioned before. We had a message from Jerry in Cork. He said, one of my favourite United away memories has got to be a cracking performance at the Riazor against Deportivo La Coruña in April 2002. David Beckham scored a stunning goal from what felt like 45 yards.

I don't think it was quite that far out but it was a long way out and Ruud van Nistelrooy added a second later on great memories what stands out to you? Well yeah just sort of jumping off the back of that of Gerry's recollection I mean that Beckham one it did feel like it was a very long way out I'm not saying it was far off 45 I've re-watched it actually and he takes the shot from an absolutely audacious distance and obviously Ruud van Nistelrooy's second is from a lot

closer in as we all expect from him. I think that just period was United sort of showing muscle, you know, going to teams away and actually being more considered maybe Fergie, I think, changing his tactics a little bit and having three in midfield, you know, obviously Juan Sebastian Varane was bought for that purpose, right? To kind of add a bit of culture to United's European performances and

And yeah, I think they certainly elevated themselves to that level, but then never quite got over the line in such a frustrating way. I feel like that period probably, you know, is one that Ferguson would reflect on thinking we could have done better. Yeah, it wasn't all good by any means, Andy, was it? No. No.

But just you mentioned in Deportivo La Coruña, no one would ever go to La Coruña. Well, actually, it's a terrible example because cruise ships now stop there. Apart from if the football team and Super Depor they were called. I could probably name most of that team now and I couldn't tell you what I had for tea yesterday. They were brilliant games. They came to Old Trafford. They were fantastic. And I remember going to one of them games in La Coruña.

where gigs had just been out of this world. And I remember feeling afterwards, once a year, Man United gave you this massive, massive buzz where you can't believe how good it was. And we went in a bar by the beach, because La Coruña is such a beautiful city. Not a pretentious bar, just a normal bar by the Rehsau Beach. And three or four of the Deportivo players just came in for a drink.

You get these little moments on European trips. It's a reason people don't just go for the game. They go for the incidental bits. It's the characters they come across. And United fans going abroad and, you know, I wanted to try an alcoholic beverage as well as visiting all the museums and doing whatever they want to do, being ambassadors for this great football club. This is why European football is so good.

Not all good though, like I referred to a moment ago. When we were talking in preparation for this, a game away at Lille in 2005 stood out to you straight away. 2005 was a rough year for Manchester United. I know compared to now when the team are 14, complaining about being third doesn't sound it. But it was a year of the Glazer takeover. I

I felt that fans really turned against Sir Alex Ferguson for the first time at that game in Lille, which was played in Stade de France because Lille's old ground was too small. It only held 15,000. United played Lille at Lons a few years previous to that. And...

The one in 05 was just after Roy Keane had given his outburst, allegedly, on MUTV. And a lot of United fans were backing Roy Keane at the time. And I can remember my phone going and it was like, is Ferguson the right man to carry on to lead United? And there were serious doubts about whether Alex Ferguson was. And he was, by the way. He definitely was. He answered that emphatically, didn't he, in his response, which we'll talk about in a moment. We had a message from Tarek.

about a game away at Lille actually a couple of years later, 2007, the quick free kick by Giggs nearly got crushed in the away end. It'll always have a special place for me. Nothing quite like watching United away in Europe. That was actually in the second group stage round, remember when that was the thing? Mad when that was the thing. In the Champions League. So many games. Yeah, you sort of talk about the number of matches there are now. Obviously at that point, I think there was probably even more

memorable days in Manchester United's European history these are none more memorable than the run to the 2008 2009 and 2011 Champions League finals what a record that was it's a shame they only won one of them but maybe that's a discussion for another day their reform though Laurie in this period stands out to me away from home and

United actually only lost one game away from home in the Champions League between losing the semi-final in Milan in 2007 all the way through to the group stage in the 2011-12 campaign away at Basel, which they ended up in the Europa League that year. We'll talk about that in a moment, but this is just as good as it gets, isn't it really?

It was a special time, very privileged to have witnessed it really because it became almost expected and you're thinking, how is this possible? And the teams often were not, obviously Ronaldo was a huge presence in it, right? And Rooney was coming to the fore and...

you had these special players, but often it was the unsung heroes that were actually putting in performances away from home that you really treasured. I mean, the one probably that sticks out in my mind from that period was the one the other way at Porto where Ronaldo scored that absolutely ridiculous goal because they'd drawn 2-2 at home and they had to go and win. And I just remember going into that game thinking, they're not going to do this, are they? But then they confound expectations and he

Yeah, it's one of the most incredible goals I think I've seen a United player score. What a goal! Not too far out for him. What a night when Manchester United had to score. They have scored inside six minutes. It's the player from Portugal who has hammered it in here.

So United never play Roma and then play them six times in no time. And three of those games are obviously away. Ronaldo's header. That's the one where, if you're watching at home, he comes from out of frame, basically, and just launches himself into frame and then heads the ball straight into the back of the net. It's one of the best headers I think I've ever seen. And then the two previous trips, one of them was a dead rubber. And the first trip, there was a lot of trouble there. United fans got attacked.

But there's another side to the story. Roma had their famous hooligans and Manchester United's hooligans actually regrouped for this. And the police said, do not go to that bridge. It's dangerous. United's hooligans said, OK, we're going to go to the bridge. This was the most audacious move since the Allies attacked Monte Cassino in Italy. United's hooligans attacked Roma's hooligans on the bridge. And it was the Roma hooligans who were running off.

I went back a year later, or it might have only been months later. I think it was the same calendar year. I was scared. So I did what I've only ever done once. I took my new girlfriend, now wife, and I thought that you're sort of shielded if you're with a member of the fairer sex. You use your...

future wife as a human shield? I went in the home end and just pretended to be like Irish tourist. It's a good line if you're an Irish tourist. I was going to say you couldn't pretend to be Italian. I definitely couldn't pretend to be Italian. I got a bus back to Termini Station. Someone just looked at me and basically knew I was English and I'm with this lady. And this Italian just shielded me and said, it's not safe for you here.

and walked us back towards our hotel. And I knew it wasn't safe. And I'd go back to Rome many years later

in the name of journalism. But great football in City, amazing times when United could go against your Totties and De Rossis and beat them. 7-1 at home and 2-0 away in the first leg of the quarterfinals on the run to winning the 2008 Champions League final. It stood out to Connor. For me, the best away days all seem to be in Italy. Obviously that night in Turin, but for me the game...

in 0203, 3-0 away, should have been 4, Gary Neville's chip. Also the game against Roma in 08 when Ronaldo comes from outside the television screen. We still don't actually know where he started that jump, to be honest. It's never actually been properly confirmed by any of the TV angles with a bullet header.

It was the night I thought that the 06-09 team was really on the way to greatness. Games on ITV just hit differently, which goes into what you were saying earlier, Laurie, about the commentary making it feel different and adding in all those different sensations. You mentioned the Porto goal from Ronaldo, the same season on the run to the final in 2009, the semi-final away to Arsenal, a remarkable performance from Manchester United. 2-0 up inside 11 minutes.

obviously Ronaldo scoring and then a counter-attacking goal which still to this day Laurie I don't know what you think stands out to me as maybe the best counter-attacking goal that United have ever scored part Rooney Ronaldo to make it 3-1 on the night and send United through The speed of Rooney to apply that finish as well and there was just such a muscular team there weren't they they knew how to play Arsenal in particular but equally every round it felt like they had a clear game plan and

And they had the quality, but they also had the power. You know, it felt a bit of a throwback at that time to sort of the early 1990s team where, you know, they could beat you in a couple of different ways. And yeah, I mean, that counter-attacking goal just exemplified everything that Manchester United should be about. Definitely. And it stands out as a fantastic memory. And now the counter is on. Par.

Rooney, he's got Ronaldo up in support, here he is, and that will do it, if it wasn't certain already, it is now, absolutely classic counter by Manchester United.

One that stands out to me during this period as well, and I'm sure it stands out to a lot of people. It wasn't a win, but a remarkable performance from United away from home. The 2008 semi-final, first leg in the camp now against Frank Rijkaard's Barcelona. Guardiola would arrive the following year. A pretty makeshift defence looking back at the team sheet. Owen Hargreaves at full-back. Pretty much Wes Brown's finest hour in a Manchester United shirt. It's a Barca side of Xavi, Iniesta,

Deco, Lionel Messi, Samuel Eto'o, Thierry Henry couldn't even get a game. He's on the bench for this team. And Messi didn't even last the 90 minutes against Patrice Evra. Cristiano Ronaldo missed the penalty after three minutes, but United drew 0-0 and obviously set up the second leg where Paul Scholes scores in a 1-0 win. And when I look back, actually, this is the first time that Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo ever shared a pitch together. That's the start of it all. That game. Wow. That is a great start.

Patrice Evra was instructed to mark Lionel Messi and he did it very well. It's a hugely, hugely significant game. That game away, that 0-0, you know when they're doing their UEFA A licence?

that is a case study in defensive excellence. And we knew about Carlos Quiroz getting the mats out and saying with great precision, this is where Javi is going to be. This is how Deco receives a ball. This is what Zambrotta or Etu or Iniesta, um,

or Milito will do and getting it absolutely right. But it was United's defence that day, possibly the greatest defensive performance in United's modern history. What did they say about that performance that makes it that good, Andy? What are the technical aspects that make it stand out so much? I've actually got the notes and if I'd been better prepared for this, I could bring them out for you. All I know is that it is still taught. Looking at it from the outside, how do you contain...

Lionel Messi, how do you stop Xavi and Iniesta in Camp Nou?

And United attacked them. Ronaldo had the penalty after a couple of minutes. Yeah, two or three minutes. But a lot of it was zonal, mixed in with Evra going man-to-man. And I think Messi only got the better of Patrice Evra one time. And as you said, they had Thierry Henry on the bench, Ida Good Johnson on the bench, Lillian Thuram on the bench. World-class players on the bench, but he couldn't beat the mighty Manchester United.

No, they stood firm, didn't they? My goodness, Laurie, there's so many to mention during this period. It's remarkable, really. I feel like we're fast-forwarding through what's pretty much the best

the best period. But Milan 2, Manchester United 3, round of 16 in the 0-9-10 season. United's first ever win at the San Siro, remarkably. Picked out by a few. So Michael says, I remember sitting in class early on Wednesday morning in Melbourne, Australia, checking the score when the teacher wasn't looking. That game had everything. Ronaldinho gliding around the pitch.

Scholes having an air swing and inadvertently scoring with his shin. David Beckham coming off the bench. Wayne Rooney scoring two pinpoint headers. Rooney has a number nine. This was the season for him in a Manchester United shirt. Beckham coming off the bench for AC Milan. Yeah.

Beckham, we should describe that. Yeah, we should, you're right. Rowan, now based in Pittsburgh, but your recent episode took me right back to my time living in India, where I was during a Champions League last-16 tie between United and AC Milan at the San Siro on the 16th of February 2010. Champions League matches would kick off at around half one. This particular night was a tense one. Milan took the lead and I was slowly building up like a pressure cooker.

Then came the Scholes equaliser in the 36th minute. I let out a yell so loud at 2.15am that my parents and sister thought the house was on fire. I was grounded for a few days, but it remains one of my all-time favourite football memories. The season after, United got to the final again, 2011. I was in Schalke.

for a 2-0 away win in the semi-finals, which just felt so routine. I vividly, Andy, remember going to the final that year and just feeling like it would go on forever. Feeling almost blasé about going to a Champions League final at Wembley against Barcelona, like it was going to happen every year and continue and continue. But that season...

It wasn't a classic run by any means. I mean, they played Rangers, Valencia, Bursa Sport, Marseille, Chelsea and Schalke. But United's record away from home in that campaign, unbeaten away from home, they won five of the six games and didn't concede a single goal in those six matches. So you're triggering different points in my memory. The Spanish clubs for about a decade got really greedy with the ticket prices they charged United fans. I love the trips to Glasgow, to Rangers, to...

And to Celtic, always an amazing, amazing atmosphere. I remember sitting in the home section at Rangers and just not being wanted to be outed as being a United fan and getting shortchanged for a pie at half time and couldn't reveal my English accent to get the correct change. I just got done out of a fiver.

United were a top team. These were amazing times and we're getting these accounts in from Reds around the world. And I remember going to Islamabad a couple of years ago and meeting a load of Pakistani Reds. And the main reason they started supporting United was

David Beckham and watching these games because the Champions League grew really big around this time and Manchester United were at the forefront of it. So everyone was getting completely different things out of these games. You'd have your hardcore European away travellers who would go everywhere and you had to have your wits about you going to places like Istanbul. And yet a game against Besiktas in 2010,

The United players who played that day will say it's the loudest atmosphere they've ever experienced. Bursa Sport, 2010, fantastic city. Everyone really friendly. I think Bursa, who are a big club, are in the second or third division now, but they were champions of Turkey. And you get to visit these places you would never normally go to. And that's another great side of European football. Yeah, of course. Unfortunately for United from that point,

The Champions League, Europe for a while, felt like much more of a challenge. But then came one night against PSG in Paris in 2019. Just taking a look at the ball that did collide with the arm of Kimpembe. Oh, the referee's going to look at it, Steve. What a moment this is. Wow. My word. How do they see it? The Manchester United supporters are holding their breath. Penalty! It's a penalty to Manchester United! Penalty!

How's your bottle? Oh, he smashed it in! What a penalty from Marcus Rashford! Manchester United with another glorious night in the Champions League. United heading through to the quarter-finals. Marcus Rashford, the coolest man in the place. 3-1 Manchester United. A 94th minute penalty there from Marcus Rashford.

That moment, the win, Oli at the wheel, Cantona and Fergie in the dressing room after the game, United are back, Laurie, aren't they? I mean, to me, probably still to this point, that's the best post Sir Alex Ferguson moment for me. Those final excruciating minutes watching United after Rashford had scored the penalty were awful, but boy, was it a fantastic result.

God bless VAR, right? Definite pen. Definite, clear, outrageous handball. I think just nobody had the expectation where they did. I know that Solskjaer had brought the field goal factor back and there was maybe a small crumb of hope going there, but PSG had just...

outplayed United at Old Trafford and you thought really with the injury situation I mean the substitutes that day you know to Heath Chong Mason Greenwood as a 16 or 17 year old youngest United player in Champions League history I think you've got the facts to back up my reach to his exact age but yeah the

actual way they started the game was aggressive, was full of intensity and yeah, I mean, the finish, it has to be a late finish right with United to go through in these situations and obviously that was so memorable for everybody saying, give Ole a 10-year contract, right? Yeah, definitely. Liam, PSG away in 2019, I expected nothing after the first leg. I was quite high up in the ground and I remember the penalty.

I turned my back as the emotion and pressure was too much for me. My heart was jumping out of my chest. My throat was sore from shouting. But at the last movement, I told myself, you can't miss this and turned around as Rashford started his run up. Bang, absolute pandemonium. I nearly went flying over the safe standing guardrail. Regardless of what happens with Marcus, he'll always have that special night for me.

nerves of steel to take that penalty in front of the away end in the rain he could have slipped 3 000 away fans all the psg players going absolutely mad a dispute in it and you're right lori no one expected it i remember speaking to one of the coaches before the game and i

You see the quotes, what they've said afterwards? Nah. Beforehand, they were focusing on Arsenal the following weekend. I remember going, just go at them. We're Man United. PSG, just go at them. Andy, come on. We've got Arsenal at the weekend. And then United did what they did. It is the only time in Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's life that he has got his phone out

after a game as a manager and filmed what was going on. And what was going on was 25 young men singing Ollie's at the wheel with Eric Bailly dancing more enthusiastically than any of them, swinging a pizza box around his head. Ferguson came in there. Cantona came in there. It was so unexpected because PSG were a top team, still are, and had bossed United at Old Trafford. Wonderful, wonderful moment.

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Let's just whiz through some more of your messages then about some more of the recent European away games. So Harrison, I'm 24 and I've done four Euro away. So given our level these days, unfortunately, there's no wins in there, which sums it up in a way, doesn't it? But he says Barca 2-2, favourite of the four. What a stadium, top game.

Brilliant city. Munich, Porto, absolutely lovely cities and grounds. Less said for the games. As a younger fan visiting Manchester Platz, that was a sobering experience, but very important and something I feel privileged to have done. Lyon, due to the treatment of fans and a last-minute equaliser, I think I can safely say is my least favourite. However, the home leg made up for it. James, my first ever European away trip with United was to the Nou Camp for the 2-2 draw in the Europa League play-off.

for the knockout phase in February 2023. An amazing stadium and I'm so glad I got to see United play there before its renovation. Jack, my personal favourite away was Partizan Belgrade in 2019. A £9 flight from Doncaster to Romania followed by a minibus to Belgrade through the night.

A great welcome for a load of Reds that visited Majestic Hotel in the city centre, which you mentioned before, Andy, where the Busby Babes spent their last evenings. Heavily armed escort into the ground, followed by a long lock-in after the game. But a win after a terrible match made it more bearable.

Next one from Michael.

I just thought people had chips in Seville, Laurie. I didn't realise there was other activities. Well, exactly. This is the city where Andy decided to make a fraudulent claim that somehow stuck to me like Velcro. Yeah.

When I had a lovely plate of tapas. People still get on your case about it. The comments, you know, anytime, particularly if I'm in Spain, it's just chips in the Instagram replies. And also, I mean, Spain was the occasion when you posted that tweet, a picture of me with a pint after the game at the Nou Camp, right? And it went viral because you again had suggested that I'd requested some kind of exotic cocktail. Yeah.

Yeah, a bit worrying for our trade was that that tweet went like 20 times more viral than anything either of us had written about the game. An exclusive story, yeah. Probably the high point of 10 hogs, Manchester United, that performance against Barcelona. Probably the best Europa League away result, actually, when you look at Crash United's time in the competition. They should have won as well, it was so close to a victory. I say result, performance, probably more than result. Powerful, physically powerful Manchester United. Valtvergaust is number 10.

About Vergas as number 10. I loved it from a personal point of view because it was the first time I'd been back to the Nou Camp since going in 99. So I did the whole reconstruction of the picture of me looking forlorn outside the Nou Camp when we'd had our tickets robbed in 99. Luckily, there wasn't any kind of drama for this one. But yeah, Seville, that was also...

You talk about the sort of stories that you have from these away trips and that was for the Real Betis game was when I was very professional and managed to sleep in through my alarm and therefore missed the bus back to Malaga because it's a bit of a mission, right? To get to Seville, you can't fly straight there. I may have had a post article, you know,

drink to kind of just calm the nerves down after the games anyway. You were with me? We were drinking under the marketplace. Don't make excuses. So it's your fault then, basically. I remember. I slept past my alarm and then had to get an Uber, basically, to get to Malaga. And I think the guy hadn't actually realised how far I was asking him to drive. It was like a two-hour drive because when he put the confirmation in on his maps, he just turned around and went, oh.

And then as the journey progressed, I could tell that he basically called his missus, I think, and was explaining to her why he wouldn't be home for tea. And he was getting a lot of aggro on the phone back. So I felt a bit bad for that one. You know, I mentioned about Rome, United never playing there. United never playing Seville and suddenly played there four times, including a friendly, in like two years. And,

I love it how the competitions still throw up, even this season in the Europa League, going to places that you've not been to before. And remembering the largest away followings, the smallest away followings. Smallest was probably Rota Volgograd in 1995. 142 Manchester United fans went there. And the Russians weren't expecting us. There was only two...

in the city of Volgograd at the time. And inside the stadium, the locals, they were passionals, vodka and all these little... I think you find humans are good wherever you are if you're nice to people. Wasn't the smallest away following away in Linz, Andy, though?

So obviously this is a period when we were away, right? And it's just at the point of the pandemic is starting. And so fans were supposed to be allowed in. So a lot of fans had traveled, but then they said it was a behind closed doors game. No, you're right. Okay. So 2000 Reds would have gone, but Europe was shutting down. So maybe 300 went, maybe 100 of them didn't leave Vienna. So you're left with about 70 people outside the stadium, uh,

in ukraine in the next one to sort of a look at a bit from vantage points at least a few of them were i might have helped one person get in i mean it's not very professional of me this i think it's i think well i'm going to tell it anyway the statutes the limitations has expired mate i think you're okay well if i get in trouble i get in trouble there's basically 50 man united fans in a bar outside the ground and i realized because i've got access as a journalist i'm in a

pretty privileged position as you were and uh i say look i'll try and get one of you in choose among yourselves so this lad was thrust forward buzzer from kendall i'm like buzzer stay with me i'll do my best

buzzer saw the game yeah speaking of lovely away trips with andy uh this is a nice one from scott since i'm only 21 there's not been many great european away results to share with you unfortunately however having some pinchos and chatting about many weird and wonderful things with mr mitten in san sebastian this season is definitely a highlight for me a highlight you poor lad i think that might be the lad where i said do you buy united we stand you read it no oh okay

So as we're doing it, right. Okay, well, I promised we'd come back to it. What a collection of European aways Manchester United had in the treble season on the way to winning the Champions League in the most dramatic of circumstances.

away in Barcelona but for the away games who can forget where it all began a 0-0 draw at LKS Wurz in the second qualifying round we can forget that because we can talk about the group stage high scoring draws at Barca and Bayern a big win at Brombie then a professional draw at Inter in the quarters and then Turin superb response from the travelling United supporters into what Roy Keane there is a way back

and it had to be the captain Keane versus Zidane Zidane wins Keane's caught him and Keane's going to get a yellow card here angrily shouts across to Jesper Blomqvist for playing him into trouble like that Roy Keane if United should complete the turnaround will not be playing in the final Beckham Cole but York's in here 2-2 in Turin

And it is now Manchester United who edge ahead in the tie on away goals. Tied looking ball to him from Gary Neville. Davids. Easy for Schmeichel. He's going to try and boot this as far as he possibly can.

Montero struggled with the ball coming down from on high and Dwyer Yorks in on goal and Andy Cole will score the goal that takes Manchester United through to Barcelona and the Champions League final they know it now they can celebrate now what a night it's been for the Red Devils in Turin

Again, lots of messages about this. You can understand it. This is a lovely one from Adam. One that stands out for me was Barcelona in the Camp Nou 3-3. I was 13 years old and on the same day, my dad, who took me to my first ever match, passed away from cancer.

I was of course devastated but that match that night, seeing that famous York and Cole combination was a release and something that I could smile about after such a horrendous and dark moment. That's also why that season was so special to me.

Thank you for sharing that one, Adam. This one's from Al.

to let me stay up past curfew to watch the game. You can imagine how devastated I was when Juventus scored two quick goals, but then came a comeback for the ages, crowned by a fantastic performance from Keane. What could possibly top that? So yeah, Reina and Juric. Laurie, you want to bust a myth?

about Roy Keane in this game, don't you? Well, obviously they've referenced it there in terms of Keane putting in that incredible performance after he got booked. And obviously he did, maybe he stepped it up, but he did actually score before he got booked, which I, even in my mind, I'd sort of thought, yeah, he gets booked and then he goes and scores and, you know, it sort of transforms the whole mood. But it had actually turned already at that point. But still, for him to go and perform like he did

and, you know, basically drag United to the semi-final, I think should be remembered for what it was. And then even Paul Scholes came on as a sub, gets booked eight minutes in. They both missed the final suspension. And obviously, I mean, we will get onto this on another podcast, but I remember being there and their disappointment was evident. They kind of didn't really want to have that much to do with the celebrations when they were all parading the European Cup at the Nou Camp. Yeah, Roy Keane away in Turin.

arguably the greatest ever performance from a Manchester United player away from home in Europe, up there with that George Best game that we talked about in 1966. Andy, the Barcelona defenders felt like they were watching tennis when they were playing against York and Cole yesterday.

In that group stage game, I mean, York, Cole, York, Cole, goal. Unbelievable. I sat next to Hugh McIlvenny, the great Scottish journalist, that night, and he was just... He'd seen a lot, hadn't he? And he'd just purring admiration, going, wonderful, wonderful. And I'm thinking, like...

Gosh, this is a great Hugh McIlvenny and he's talking about my football team. This is wonderful. And Turin is the best Manchester United performance I've ever seen in Europe and Roy Keane's performance. Although years later, I said to him about Turin, I bumped into him, it was like the 10th or 15th anniversary. And so gaming Turin and he just went, I did all right.

You did better than all right. I did all right. He did his job. He did my job. He did better than all right. We are allowed to have a different opinion to him, even though he was on the pitch.

Juventus were the best team in the world. They were 2-0 up. Manchester United won 3-2 away to reach a first European final since 1968. They had Zidane. They had Davids. They had amazing players. Deschamps. United beat them. Yeah, it doesn't really get much better than that run to the final for so many different reasons. And I think that's the best place to leave it. Let's hope there are more glorious players

Manchester United European away displays left even in this campaign just one more please would be nice on Thursday night we hope that we've brought some positive karma once again to build you up to build the moment up to build the team up if they're listening which I'm sure they're not because they're very focused on the job ahead

in Bilbao but thank you so much every single one of you for getting involved with this shows like this are made by some of the weird and wonderful tales that you have about these matches I hope you enjoyed that us three certainly did Laurie, Andy thank you so much

for being with us on Talk The Devils Extra. We do have a couple more for you coming your way before the end of this campaign. We might even do a special on finals. You never know. But let us know what you think. Tell us topics that you'd like to hear about. You can email us devilspod at theathletic.com. You can let us know on social media for future episodes of Talk The Devils Extra. The regular podcast schedule continues, so we'll be back soon.

recording after the first leg on Thursday night. Hopefully that's ready for you first thing on Friday morning. And let's hope we do have something to add to some of the stories that we've told on this podcast from Manchester United's Europa League semi-final against Athletic Club. But for the minute, thank you for listening and we'll see you on the next one. Take care. Bye-bye.