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This is Talk of the Devils, the athletics podcast dedicated to Manchester United. We are still sat in Old Trafford. The sun is just going down on what was probably the worst Manchester derby that I can remember. We'll maybe debate that actually at the start of the podcast as to how bad that actually was. For what it's worth, it was a 0-0 draw that keeps Manchester United in the lower half of the Premier League.
Less said about it, better, but we're going to do a podcast about it. We'll all hold hands together and talk about whatever we can muster. And obviously then we will build up to the biggest game of the season for Manchester United on Thursday, away at Lyon in the first leg of their Europa League quarter-final. And that bit will be far more energetic. Laurie Whitwell sat alongside me, Andy Mitton's with us as well. Laurie, was it the worst ever? No.
Yes, I think it probably was. It's something that I can remember and I know that I have been on this podcast before after a 0-0 derby at Old Trafford where I said, honestly, you had to be there. It was pretty good in the flesh, live. When was that? Was it under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer? Oh, the lockdown one? Yeah, was it that one? See, the thing was with lockdown football, you could say it was great and because people could only watch it on the TV and didn't feel it in person...
you could probably lie to them I don't think there's any way of dressing that one up no no so you're accusing me of fabricating that previous excitement at 0-0 I'm certainly not fabricating my deep
Yeah, despondency. Former Daily Mail journalist fabricating stories, surely not. Well, you need to watch what you're saying there. Allegedly. Yes, exactly. Very cute, crucial word there. Now, I think, well, nothing alleged about the poor performances today. I think it was the passing. Like, so many passes went astray. I mean... The ones that are playing the first half were particularly pointed, weren't they? What was going on there? Bad touches. It was contagious as well, wasn't it? It was contagious. I mean, there was one period that was absolutely comical where it was sort of to me, to you, you know, and neither...
team really wanted to get on it. I think you have to say City were awful as well. How bad they have become this season is remarkable. United were the better team. I thought they looked likelier to score and it felt like they were trying towards the end of the game, albeit again in that kind of haphazard kind of way where
Wow, one team was trying, we can confirm that, can we? Listen, small mercies, this is the kind of crumbs that I'm trying to gather together to get some energy into this first half and not save it all for the pre-Leon section. I think the bit that probably summed it up was that tepid,
pathetic bit of aggro between Ugarte who was it Bernardo Silva's push on him was the weakest thing I've ever seen I mean Jorah by the time he got there he came steaming in as if he was going to have to really get in the mix here and here we are in Manchester Derby by the time he got there the whole steam had been you know
evaporated and he just was you know tapping people on the shoulders you know so I mean it just summed it all up that they couldn't even get riled enough for a for a bit of handbags any better from your side Andy no it was flatter than Norfolk mate it reminded me is Norfolk flat is it of course you use a geography reference to give people a comparison if you want to take me to court I will prove that Norfolk's pretty flat no no problem reminded me of um
Just before United became good, and City were obviously never good until... Is this how far back we're going? Yeah, we are. So there was a game in February 1990. I was dead excited about it. I treated myself to a ticket to the main stand quite near the dugouts. £5.40, probably about £600 next season. And it was just a terrible game. United were 17, City were like 14, something like that. Clayton Blackmore scored them.
If I'm looking at positives from today, all right, there's a clean sheet. United didn't score again. That's the 12th game this season. Your point about City being poor is so true. I'm so surprised. They've got so many good players and Guardiola's a brilliant manager. I'm absolutely baffled how bad they are because I felt if there were maybe another two Bruno Fernandes-class players in that United team today, then they could have got a winner. The crowd were urging it, but...
It was put to me at half-time. Which of those two squads would you like to have in three years' time? And the person who said it said they'd rather have the Manchester United squad than the Manchester City squad. I'm not sure, and I don't know whether it's a debating point that we should go down the rabbit hole on too much, but...
It feels like there's quite a lot of players there at City who are coming to the end of their time with the club. Obviously, Kevin De Bruyne announced on Friday and it did make me think about what's coming for United and the challenge that they've got to try and get back to the top.
Do you think the teams in the Premier League, there's a lot to be said about United and all the journey that they've got to go on, but do you think the teams in the Premier League, the top teams, are that good? To me, they don't feel as insurmountable as they were maybe two or three years ago for United. Well, I suppose not. I mean, City set the
set the agenda in a big way where it did feel they were light years ahead and now clearly you can see that there's a way of reaching them and getting on side with them and even beyond them and Liverpool obviously have had a really good season but again they've had matches where they've kind of squeezed past teams and they've been on a roll and obviously it came unstuck today against Fulham They've been the best of the bunch but that bunch is maybe not
as strong as it was previously as well. Yeah, I mean, you look at Nottingham Forest being third and obviously they got beat by Aston Villa. They've obviously had a really good season. United should have beat them for me, you know what I mean? United should have beaten Forest, really. And they're only, I think, five points behind Arsenal who, you know, it's been a very strange season and I suppose that does give you encouragement that,
Things can turn quickly, right? I think we've said it before, Leicester go from scrapping against relegation to winning the title. We've had various rises such as that. But I feel like, to your point about which squad would you prefer, you're putting a lot of faith in players from a United point of view that haven't necessarily shown that they're going to become any better. So you talk about another game where Rasmus Hoyland has had a very difficult encounter, not having any impact really, and not even making the moves. Did he have a shot? Well...
No, I don't think so. Xerxe came on and made more of an impact, didn't he? There was a moment actually in the first half where Bruno had the ball, he's got Dorgue and Hoyland running ahead of him, but Hoyland kind of runs into the left side of that towards Dorgue and Bruno eventually goes wide into Dorgue as a shot wide. I mean, Dorgue takes shots too much from my liking. That first touch that he had when Garnaccio squared it back to him in the first half when he was just on the edge of the box...
Oh yeah. He just summed up the first half for me that touch. But Bruno in that moment He'd only need to hit it a little bit harder and it'd probably be classed as a shot on target that's how bad the touch was. Well there you go one for the stats I suppose but I think in that moment then Bruno and Hoyland had a conversation or Bruno had a conversation with Hoyland where he was basically saying you're running the wrong place there you need to run straight and to the right so I could have got the angle for the pass so that
That is a concern. Obviously, you look at City and they've gone and bought three young players in January that they could equally be good in the future. So they are obviously adjusting to it. Yeah, I mean, that said, Marmouch played today, but Nico Gonzalez was left on the bench for the first time since he signed for City. Kuzinov was an unused sub as well. Victor Reus, the other defender they signed, is not in the team either. So they spent a lot of money in January, but Marmouch aside, they've not made a huge impact on...
on first team matters maybe they're giving space to grow what do you think Andy I mean Amarin spoke in the press conference after the game today and also on Friday as well sort of saying he's not the type of manager to ask for too much time he's in a rush to get this right although he then said that United you know it's unrealistic to expect them to be title challengers next year but
how do you see their plight to get back to where they need to be? Briefly on City, and hopefully no City fans are listening to this, I actually do think they've bought very well. I saw Nico a lot when he was playing in Spain. I've got Argentinian mates who absolutely rave about Echeverry, who was playing for River Plate. If you look at some of their key players, they are still very young, even not...
Not the players who they've signed. Who? Doc, who's quite young. Guardiola's quite young.
Yeah, okay. Harlan Guardiola, yeah. That kid from Norway, he's quite young. I'm stunned that they let Alvarez go because he's one of the best players in the world and I mean that. Well, there was 90 million reasons for that. Yeah, I know that but I'm still surprised and I know why. I read his interviews. Why? Not that this is going to become a Manchester City podcast. You're trying your best. I think Guardiola's a brilliant manager.
I preface this by saying I'm stunned how bad they are. I wouldn't be surprised if you got them right back up there very quickly. I hope I am completely wrong there. I'm going to talk now about Manchester United. I'm more concerned about the young Manchester United players. You know, Garnaccio's gone off the boil.
after last year end product but you could say that about so many players I'm pretty encouraged by what I've seen about Dorgo Hoyland's got to start scoring otherwise he's going to be moved on just got to start scoring I'm not going to pile on to him I don't think it's it's fair but if you play up front for Manchester United he touched the ball twice in his in the city half in the first half
In the City box or the City half? City half. That's what Sky said, yeah. So those two touches were actually very good ones. One of them was a combination play with Bruno Fernandes. I thought Bruno was United's best player by a mile again today and was saying that week after week. But Hoyland's got to start producing. I see moments with Xerxe, who's quite young as well.
Lenny Yoro, my opinion on him is unchanged. He was decent. Yeah. So there are reasons for it, but we're talking after a really flat Manchester derby and we're talking with Manchester United being 14th before the game, I think 13th now. It's bobbins, isn't it? It just is. Well, that's why I was trying to talk about the future and change the subject a little bit because the actual game itself is not one that we're going to dwell on for much longer.
Well, we are actually. We're going to do the rest of the podcast on it until we talk about Lyon. But I don't know. I sort of look at the picture in the Premier League now as well. There's going to be a lot of teams who qualify for Europe who aren't used to it either. So you're going to have the likes of Nottingham Forest, Brighton, obviously Villa again, who've done all right this year in coping. Newcastle, who've had the problems previously. If they do get into Europe, you think that would weaken them for the Premier League because they're not squads built necessarily to play every three days.
I know United are way off it. I know there's a lot of work to be done. I know that the summer is going to be one of brickmanship maybe again with moving people on and bringing people in. It's not going to be big name buys necessarily. It's going to be people with room to grow. I just started to think a little bit about what next season might look like. I don't know, I don't feel like it's as scary as it seems.
has been at times this year really. You're kind of keeping me guessing here Ian with which kind of glass half full glass half empty sort of way you're going to frame this question so it went positive at the end there and it's interesting that you mentioned big players in the summer because that is what Amarine said before
before the game where he said one or two big players he basically clarified it I think what he was saying was players that will make a big impact on my team should we give him that credit not from Real Madrid basically not for loads although money helps a lot he said so yeah I mean I think clearly they're already looking at
the summer and how this squad can be shaped but yeah I think that that is a very valid point that other teams will suffer by being in Europe Fulham I think you can mention as well depending on what they do end of the season I do think United and probably City they both look tired at the end as well I mean maybe I'm giving them some excuses there but it is I think they were just bored like us possibly bored possibly bored but it's a long season they've obviously just had two matches
back-to-back in the Premier League with that midweek game and it felt like at moments the concentration levels weren't there where you're not trapping a ball correctly, you're not passing it to a team-mate correctly. It was pretty...
pretty arduous to get through at times but as I say I thought United at least gave it a go you know Xerxes came on and had the best chance of the game didn't he? Yeah they were the better team weren't they? They were more likely to win out of the two sides I mean I am sort of looking ahead to next season and ignoring the fact that Ruben Amorino and Manchester United have got one hell of a lot of work to do to even be better than this year but you think maybe with some of the injuries beginning to see players coming back again whether that can be reduced then the squad looks different again for next year I think
So maybe I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit. But just going back to some of the performances in the derby today, Andy, Casemiro as well. Manuel Agarte, again, not lasting 90 minutes. It's Casemiro who stays on the pitch and Agarte who goes off, which...
It's beginning to seem a bit odd to me that he's unable to last the 90 minutes, but Casemiro's record was 11 tackles today, or he won the ball back 11 times, and that's the most of any player in a Premier League game this season, actually. Yeah, I think the midfield gave the ball away a bit too loosely in the first half. I think Casemiro shielded the defence well, and he is a goal threat as well. He swung a shot just before half-time.
He fouled Foden, didn't he? And then he gave the ball away. I'm less worried about Casemiro in Europe and United have been good in Europe. You know, of the 72 teams that entered the top group stages of the big two competitions, you see how I'm pulling, you know, stats can prove anything.
We've got a... Manchester United are the best team in Europe. Yeah, finish the stat. Yeah. United are the only unbeaten out of the 72. And Casemiro has done well in Europe. And I'd be very confident with him starting and Ugarte as well. This isn't a vintage midfield for Manchester United. We talk about big names in the summer. It's as important to me as the culture is.
Now, a lot of the big teams didn't do well this weekend who were in Europe. So maybe this is a fact today. Barcelona didn't win. Real Madrid didn't win this weekend. Anthony played very well again for Real Betis. And if you look at why Anthony, who's clearly a good player, why has he not done well at Manchester United? I think it was partly a personal problem, but a club culture problem as well. And the one thing that Ruben Amarim is trying to do in his own mind is to reset the culture.
So if you talk to him about what he wants to do, it's, I'm making difficult decisions. I'm letting players go out on loan. I'm going to do it my way. I'm going to play it my way. And this will lead to success in the future. He's been pretty consistent about that.
bringing young players in who are pretty malleable to his system. So that's the best case scenario, that the lads he's brought in, added to another two or three in the summer, and we suddenly start to see a brighter Manchester United, and rivals suddenly have to play European football, which Manchester United are well-versed in doing. And somehow you win the Europa League, and you've got the Champions League riches, and one or two of the players comes up really quickly from the youth team. The 18s had a brilliant win on Saturday, by the way.
they scored not 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 or 11 or 12 13 they put past Leeds United unlucky Leeds I'm not going to go too harsh on a bunch of children who played I do think that but yeah it is a season where you need to take solace in anything celebrate anything I suppose
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What about Garnaccio then as well? Because, again, he...
give it as much as he could. He's full of running still, isn't he? You can't... It's the same sort of criticism again, isn't it, with him? In some ways, he was United's brightest player because he was a threat and he was trying things. But again, the link-up with Dogu in the second half especially seemed a bit truncated and the end product wasn't always there. It feels like...
he needs a break actually but we can't give him one well there is that definitely I was sort of a bit more encouraged by him actually after being probably on the negative side of things after the Forest game even though again he was the one trying to make things happen didn't the headline on your article say that he can't fit this system it was quite a strong headline I don't think I quite wrote that did you not write that no I didn't write the headline
did it say exactly that it said something like shows should be sold I think it said it definitely didn't say that you're pushing the buttons here tonight aren't you I've just got to try and make the podcast interesting where's your negative buzzer anyway I need that I need your falsehood buzzer when you try and spin stuff
Yeah, but I actually thought the understanding with Garnaccio and Dorgi down the left was a bit better as well in the second half. He was passing to him. That chance for Xerxes was Garnaccio passing to Dorgi in the right moment and him crossing it. So that was encouraging at least. He just seemed to make the same run quite a bit. Well, this is it. And he switched sides, I think, at different moments again. So it's figuring out where should I run and when should I release it to my teammate and...
with two new players into the system really and then also two young players developing their own game anyway that's obviously going to have bumps in the road so do we have the patience for that do United have the patience whilst they obviously need to be aggressive and be competing and I think again Amorim to his point before the game and then after the game as well he obviously is going to be asked about the whole Project 150 Mission 21 agenda that's been set out and he has to kind of balance it between it's like a NASA agenda
sort of mission, doesn't it? Well, I mean, NASA was part of the inspiration, wasn't it, when we touched on the whole sort of Dave Brailsford background. Getting the janitors involved with getting people to the moon. Yeah, exactly. And so, I mean, listen, United obviously shooting a bit lower than that, but the idea is that they are challenging and Amarin, I think his point is
that's his ambition, right? The reality is that it's going to be difficult, but he has that in his motivation. It's not like he's kind of passing that off into the future at some nondescript point. I quite like the way he answered it because you don't want him to say there's no chance and you don't want him to say that he needs loads of time. And you also don't want him to say anything stupid like, yeah, we'll be title challengers next year because then it puts everyone under pressure. So I think actually he dealt with that correctly. Yeah, a human sort of realistic way and that's how he's dealt with a lot of things. So yeah,
I mean, I think that it's... Until he gets more players that suit his system, though, it's going to be running uphill because you're finding...
pushing players into areas that perhaps they're not the most comfortable in. I mean, I think Casemiro's renaissance, just to touch on your earlier point, has been encouraging and very timely because, yeah, as you say, Agate, I mean, he gave the ball away, his passing wasn't good today and that's why he comes out. Why do you think he doesn't last 90 minutes? You don't think it's a fitness thing? It could be a fitness thing. It could be a fitness thing, yeah, when you look at the league that he was playing at in Ligue 1 and then before that in Portugal. So is there a kind of robustness that needs to be
built into him because he's full of running when he is on the pitch isn't he yeah especially without the ball international break is that part of it yeah because he's only half time sub at Nottingham Forest yeah but Casemiro's playing better at the moment so it's as simple as that so he's going to leave the player that's actually performing better on the pitch and I think Casemiro I asked about him afterwards because he'll probably be the subject of my match piece just in terms of
you've got this guy that's obviously now earning the most money in your squad I would say and he's got another year left on his contract I mean maybe we thought that he was done sort of at the end of last season and okay maybe there's more interest I'm sure that the hierarchy would ultimately like to trim that wage bill and get more from him but actually he's now okay he's still perhaps
perhaps more for a player that's earning that much but he's actually doing the kind of thing in the scale of the squad that is commensurate with his salary so maybe he does stay another year and actually keep playing for United Yeah maybe because his contract's there isn't it As he said he wants to stay Yeah and they may struggle to get rid of him on the wage that he's on as well to be fair because I know that they've
spoken to people. They looked around last summer for sure. Something else that we should reflect on was the protest after the game in the Stretford and Lorry as well. Did you get a sense of how that went and the impact that it had? I think it was certainly eye-catching because a lot of people stayed afterwards. Quite a lot of City fans stayed because they were saluting Kevin De Bruyne afterwards so it
need a bit of time. Nice of them to join him. Yeah, exactly. The sitting protests reuniting both sides of Manchester. But to be fair, they have actually been united on ticket prices, haven't they, before this point? Yeah. So I would say several thousand probably stayed, organised by the 1958 group, a different means again of protesting to show their discontent at the running of the club, mainly aimed at the Glazers' ownership, of course. But yeah, it was quite a lot of people, I think. And then also, during the game, there was a protest by people that are going to
going to be moved by the new configuration around the dugout so they actually turned stood up and you know sung at the directors in the directors box right behind them so very you know in your face kind of protest I wasn't even aware of that it was quite significant and basically I think one sign said you know been a supporter for 74 years you know what kind of and now I'm treated like this that was kind of the message so I know you've done a piece on those people haven't you Andy?
Yeah, I spoke to some of them and the comments below the piece are really interesting actually because the people I spoke to are obviously disappointed
They all say, look, we've had an absolute result here and we don't want to be moved and we've been here for many, many years, et cetera, et cetera. And there's some good stories there. There's one really funny story about one fella who's been calling the lad next to him by the wrong name for like 17 years and he's been calling him the wrong name back and you go past the point of no return where you've got to say, what's your name again, mate? But
But there's actually a bit of pushback with people going, just because you got them season ticket holders for a family member 50 years ago doesn't mean you've got a right forever. Okay. Quite a few American readers saying, I can't believe how cheap Premier League football is.
which is pretty interesting, but then Manchester is not in America, so it shows the different economies. Yeah. Well, you've also got fans paying a lot of money for a pre-season friendly where Manchester United are in their town once a year, once every five years or whatever it works out. It's a very different thing spending that money multiple times a week, isn't it? So your season ticket holders are there every week. They are the people providing the support on those miserable nights against Ipswich or whatever. Yeah.
But back to your other point, I remember doing a piece when ticket prices were nearly $200 for Man United's under-21s with Wrexham and I was indignant and this is disgraceful and I got to the stadium and it simply was not an issue.
So it just shows how there's different markets. But that doesn't mean that the fans I spoke to can not be annoyed and disappointed. And it's little practical things as well. One gentleman said, there's not actually many stairs I have to go up to get to my seat. I only have to climb like six or seven seats. Another gentleman can't see out of one eye. So he's like, you know, it's better for me to be central from a view. Fair enough.
Just the sense of a community being broken up. People were saying, I can stomach the 5%. What I don't want to do is not know where I'm being moved to. So obviously a move like that is going to upset people. I should also mention the TRA today. They met in Manchester. Beautiful day. They funded all the flares and they had a big sing song. I think the fan culture is really important and should be protected.
One last thing to reflect on actually before we move it on and talk about Lyon versus Manchester United on Thursday I want to give Bruno Fernandes and the club some credit for an absolutely brilliant thing they did today and that was the mascot Bobby now you might have noticed him
him coming out with the players before the game. He was alongside Bruno Fernandes in his power chair. He was the first ever mascot that Manchester United have ever had in a power chair or a wheelchair. Eight years old, I think he is, a young fan from Belfast. And Bruno Fernandes saw a video of him celebrating United's derby win at the Etihad Stadium earlier on in the season, thought it was absolutely fantastic and invited him to go down to the training ground on Friday where he met all of the players.
had a little game of football in his chair with Bruno Fernandes as well and then Bruno asked him if he wanted to be the mascot for the game today which of course you can imagine for any young supporter he said yes and to see him come out today and to see the way that Bruno Fernandes and the other players spoke to him and interact
with him he's been given a day that he'll never forget so yeah a huge congratulations to everyone who made that happen and to see both of his parents in tears before the game watching him was very special indeed so nice one Bobby. Yeah it was absolutely lovely but it would have been funny if you would have said no I'll wait until you're actually good then I can be my star.
But Bruno's really good on stuff like that. The fact that the young lad comes onto his radar and he brings him in. Bruno drove it as well. It was not the club who pointed it out to him. He saw it, yeah. He does drive stuff like this. He's aware of his standing as the captain. He's aware of the responsibility. And he's got a pretty tricky job in that dressing room as well. But I think Bruno's had a really good six weeks.
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Right, before we move on then and talk about Lyon versus Manchester United on Thursday, remember Talk of the Devils is on tour again in the autumn. We're in Belfast, Dublin, Cork, Manchester and London. I'm sure you know the dates and the venues by now, but if not, take a look in our show description and also on our social media accounts as well. There's links to buy tickets for all of those events.
The tickets are selling really well. Thank you to everyone who's got them so far and we'd love to see you there. So if you've not bought a ticket and you want to come down, get involved. Right, let's talk about Thursday. Biggest game of the season so far, quite simply.
Yeah, because everything rides on the Europa League, right? Getting back into the Champions League, it can transform United's summer and it can give Ruben Amarin that level of credibility amongst the fans and also amongst the players that winning a trophy can't be
can lead to somewhere I know that Eric Ten Hag won too and maybe he still didn't quite get that buy-in from people but I think that you know Europa League at this point would be a pretty good achievement albeit yeah perhaps not with the same cachet as a European trophy of the past because you look at the teams that are still in the competition and you're thinking that United should be beating majority they should be beating all of them really yeah it's obviously a different difficult moment for them but yeah huge game in Lyon great city and
yeah I think United and maybe that coloured the performance today a little bit as well just not wanting to get injured I know Harry Maguire came off he didn't want to yeah he didn't want to so I feel like maybe that was a
a precaution from Ruben Amarin wanting to protect his squad again good question yeah it certainly was interesting that right well Lyon won 2-1 last night against Lille they're in 5th in league earned one point off the Champions League places in the French top flight but let's get a bit of a lowdown on the shape that they're in and also some of the familiar names in their squad two Premier League fans by Julian Leroy
Hello guys, I'm here to talk to you about Lyon, of course, before the big game against United in the Europa League on Thursday. There's a lot of things we can say about this Lyon team. I mean, first of all, they've changed manager not that long ago. Paulo Fonseca has replaced Pierre Sage. Now it's Paulo Fonseca in charge. He's a coach that likes his team to play good football, to have possession and that's only...
where he's done a lot defensively, there could be a little bit all over the place too. But overall, it's a good team. It's a really good team. This is going to be a very, very interesting game against United in Lyon, especially, but then depending obviously on that first leg, the second leg as well. They have the old guards who are still there after coming back from, after leaving the club and coming back. Alexandre Lacazette, of course, the club captain and Corentin Tolisso. Both of them, Lyon born and bred, went through the academy together.
Then left one for Arsenal, the other one for Bayern, then came back and now very much leading this new squad. They're the leader. Like I said, he's now having a great season. He's older now and you could see that he doesn't have the same impact. Tolisso, however, one of the best players
of the team in a slightly higher position as a number 10 quite often centrally where he can have a massive influence with and without the ball offensively and defensively on the team but really the big star has been Ryan Cherky and we kind of we've been waiting for a season like that from him for a long time he's an absolute genius of a footballer just a little bit inconsistent before quite a lot inconsistent now he's far more consistent and far more decisive as well and
often this season if the other team kept him quiet then Lyon would struggle and if he had a good game then Lyon would win basically to summarise it was a little bit like this so the big task I guess from a United point of view is to keep Schalke quiet then you've got
other really good players like mikotazi who i think will start ahead of la casette as the number nine the georgian international who had a really good euros and started slowly back to his the club where he all began for him but now now has been really on fire the last couple of months uh there's nemanja matic obviously who will face his all his old club in united so there's a lot of little stories
within Maitland-Nice will be back against an English club as well and back playing for England.
So it's a good squad. It's a team that I think has more to give than what we've seen so far this season. I think it's a team that can play really well, that can be a little bit naive defensively too at times, but they can cause United a bit of problem and Schalke, again, the big star of it. Thank you, Julian, for doing that. I mean, Andy, he's not scared me off Thursday, let's be honest.
No, this is a 7 out of 10 team. This isn't PSG, but this is a team who have been convincing, like United in the Europa League. They have lost one game, that was to Bishop Cass, but they beat FCSB, who Manchester United played, who Laurie obviously knows all about them because he's been reading up about them.
That was 7-1 on aggregate. They battered Rangers, who were still in this competition, and they're a good team in this competition. They beat teams like Eintracht Frankfurt. They're a big club. It's a big city. The average 50,000 fans. Fonseca, I went to Milan in September, watched his AC team win the Milan derby. So it's a team who score a lot of goals, more than Manchester United,
in Europe and they're scoring a lot at the moment. It was a big win for them at the weekend. There's a big cloud hanging over them and it's with their owners. There is a threat of relegation, there's a threat of administration and the owners, because of the complex way that they own the club, they've also got interests in other clubs.
They're saying, no, everything's okay. But the French Federation are like, well, you know, separate Lyon's finances from the other clubs that you own. Tell us exactly how much your profit and loss is. So it's the type of team you would expect to be meeting at this stage in the competition. I do think that Manchester United is,
Our slight favourites. Home leg, the second leg is at Old Trafford. But I tell you what, it will be bouncing there. There'll be 57,000 people there on Thursday. And it was loud when United went there in 2002. It was really loud in 2008. Tevez silenced them. I think it was Tevez in a big Champions League game. There's a real strong fan ultra culture there. They've got issues online.
of their own. So this is a big city club in a big competition. This is a club who really should be playing Champions League football. Bring it on.
Bring it on indeed, yeah. I mean, just listening to Andy talk about some of the brilliant Champions League ties that Manchester United have had against Lyon in the past wets the appetite a little bit. But when you're looking at some of the names that are involved with this Lyon squad, it's not the Lyon of Karim Benzema in 2008 or Janinho Panembacanu or Michael Essien or Sidney Govu like United faced as well. There's some classic, classic names and games from the past in there.
I love that you went for full name on Janinho. No messing. Well, not the Middlesbrough one. The one that took three kicks. I know. It's the only thing I remember about him. Well, exactly. Three kicks from like 40 yards, isn't it? Absolutely ridiculous. Crazy ability there. I'm just glad that Andy hasn't called me out on my poor knowledge of some of their current players. Ryan Cherky, yeah? Well, no, I knew about him because I'd seen him play for France under-21s against England under-21s. What's he like? He's a little-known player called...
Nemanja Matic who Andy said you know he brought him up in a call that we were having about you know future pieces around Manchester United and he said I might interview Matic and I said oh any particular reason and then realised yeah so you've actually let me off there Andy and I've exposed myself willingly but yeah I mean does it so does he is he playing every week then is he going to play against United?
Yeah, he's probably going to play against United. He played 70 minutes against Lyon. I have been in contact with several members. He won't have played against Lyon. Not recently. Lille. Sure. I said Lille. All these French teams are beginning to move out.
Yeah, Loire. No, no. Lorient is the other one, isn't it? Lorient, yeah. Lorient, yeah. Hey, we could be here all night. Look at us without French football knowledge. That's what you two put on your air. So Matic is still this sort of Rodri type figure. You miss him when he's not there. He moved to Lyon at the start of this season. He'd been at Rons. He moved for family reasons. Yeah.
Ron? Do you mean Ren? Ren, sorry, Ren. Oh my God. Some French speaker's going to be listening to this. You're like Del Boy. How would a... 2-0 at the weekend with Monge too, honestly. I reckon I know more about Olympique Lyon than 99% of people listening to this. So I'll just give you a little education. At least you can pronounce them.
I watched him knock Manchester City out of the Champions League a few years ago with three children in midfield. And I watched one of them called Bruno Guimaraes. And I thought, he's absolutely brilliant. Why doesn't someone pick him up? And obviously Newcastle United did. But I became pretty good mates with Rudy Garcia, their manager. He invited me to see him in Lyon. And I went there during COVID. I took the train there, which he buzzed off. I took a train from Manchester and...
He was under real pressure, but after I went to see him, he won like eight on the bounce and he thought that I was some sort of good luck charm. So I met up with him for like drinks and stuff in Madrid, kept in touch with him. Is any manager named rude or a variant thereof? Do they think that you're a good luck charm?
Oh, dear me. Rudy Garcia was number two for Manchester United's job when Ralph Rangnick got it. I was going to say, that's why he was friends with you, Andy. He thought you could connect him up. He was the only one who got a second interview. I made a proper knob out myself with him last year because I said to him,
I mean, I'll hold my hands up. This is how my head works. I said to him, go for the Bournemouth job. It's going to come up. I messaged him and he just sent me a picture back going, I've taken another one. And it was him in Napoli Stadium where he just accepted it to be the Naples job. Had I been on the ball, I would have seen the news that he'd accepted the job to be the Napoli manager. But obviously it wasn't. But I was well-intentioned. Anyway, they've now got Fonseca.
They'll actually have him on the touchline as well, won't they? Yeah, he's not allowed to be the coach because of an incident which he disputes and will appeal, but he will be on the bench against Manchester United. Yeah, he's suspended for nine months for
from being on the touchline in French football, domestic football, from confronting a referee angrily. But like you say, there are some details still to work out with it, but it doesn't apply in Europe. Allegedly. Back to allegedlys. Another one of your friends, Owen. I met him for a coffee a few years ago in Lyon and I went to see him at Landarby. Did you get a train there?
I flew to... He was in Shakhtar Donetsk a few years ago. He had to get out of there rapid. I mean, there's a lot of Portuguese managers, isn't there? There's absolutely loads of them. So, yeah, let's see if I can catch up with him around these two games. But I'm excited. Beating Real Sociedad kept the season going. We've got another month ahead.
Everyone's buzzing. How are you getting to Lyon? How are you getting back? Oh, I've heard there's rumours of this and that. And this is what keeps fans going. And if United can win in Bilbao, that will make a huge difference to this season. Huge difference. Well, they just need to keep the season alive for the moment, don't they? So let's hope for something positive in Lyon on Thursday night in the first leg of that Europa League quarterfinal. But we'll leave it there on Talk of the Devils. If you want to get in touch,
You know you always can. Devilspod at theathletic.com. Remember those live dates coming in the autumn. Get involved with that. But, Laurie, thank you for cuddling up alongside me here in the press box at Old Trafford. Andy, thank you for joining us as well, and thanks for listening along. We'll see you on the next one after Leon. Take care. Bye-bye. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.