Dr. Gabrielle Lyon on Muscle, Creatine & the Links between H. Pylori & Acne | Part 2
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If we know that women seem to have lower levels of creatine in the brain and that they are very responsive to creatine and it improves mood and memory, that's extraordinary. This is the Pursuit of Wellness podcast and I'm your host, Mari Llewellyn.

What is up, guys? Welcome back to the show. Today, we have Dr. Gabrielle Lyon back for part two. I mean, it may even be part three because she came on stage at the event that I threw, but she's incredible. She is a top favorite guest of this show, one of my favorite people, my personal doctor who has gotten me through so much. So I'm so happy to have her back on today. She is here to share insights on muscle health, weight loss, and weight loss.

hormone balance and optimal nutrition strategies. We talk about my acne journey and the role of H. pylori, which Dr. Lyon actually helped diagnose and when antibiotics could actually be beneficial. We explore supplements like creatine and colostrum for muscle retention, fertility and metabolic health, along with practical ways to improve kids' nutrition. She has two kids herself and I really admire the way she parents and keeps them healthy. So that's very interesting insight from her.

We talk about healthy school lunches to creating positive habits at home. And finally, we dive into topics like ozempic, fasting, and the crucial role of protein in building a strong foundation, especially for women. Without further ado, let's hop into this chat with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, welcome back for part two.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. Our part one was so fun. I mean, I loved it and the audience absolutely loved it. They freaked out over it. It's one of my top performing episodes. So I'm so excited to have you back. Anytime you ask, I'm here. I know. I mean, we talk every single week anyway, but I mean, I've told them you're my doctor and like we check in and

have been through a lot together already, I feel like. I've told the audience, you helped me with my acne, which is just like, was the craziest journey for me. Like 10 years of insane acne on and off, chaos.

kept coming back, couldn't figure out why. And we eventually got to finding out I had H. pylori, which I'd never heard of. Do you mind if we start there? Because I feel like people had a lot of questions about that. Yeah. And I think it's important to frame up this idea of acne, right? And there are many different causes of acne. But for someone who is young and healthy...

to go through cycles of this cyclic acne is major. It affects people's well-being, emotional well-being, and so you really have to get to the root cause. And H. pylori is a cause of acne or at least highly correlated. And I will tell you this, the higher the load, which by the way, H. pylori is a gram-negative bacteria.

Nearly 50% of the population has it. Did I just have a very high dose of it? So this is very interesting. The load of the H. pylori can mirror the degree of the acne.

Those individuals that seem to, again, not in all studies, but those individuals that seem to have a high bacterial load of H. pylori are the ones that seem to have the worst acne. And so if you don't treat the H. pylori, then the acne, whether you do a full elimination diet or you remove all of these things or improve your B vitamin status,

You don't get rid of it. Yeah, that was me. I barely could eat any. In my head, I couldn't eat anything because I was like, well, I eat dairy. It will trigger it when I have alcohol, when I have sugar. Like I pretty much just ate meat and fruit when I first met you. Like I was so restrictive. And now I can get away with having like a little bit of

things here and there and it doesn't re-trigger it. I still eat healthy for the most part, but like even when I go out for dinner, I'm not struggling with breakouts the next day. And nor should you. And by the way, roughly 20% of the population will have symptoms. So let's talk about symptoms of H. pylori. Yeah.

Acne can be a symptom, but also reflux. People that are-- you'll hear them, they're constantly clearing their throat, that can be from reflux. Interesting, so it could show up differently in different people. Heartburn, yes. And the other component of that is if the partner is not treated, how do you get H. Pylori?

Well, you can get it from saliva. It's probably the most common way. If you kiss, if you even, I don't know, share drinks, depends on my three-year-old gets, you know, saliva everywhere. But you have to be treated and also your partner has to be treated. Right. That was the biggest like mind, that's what clicked for me. I was like, okay.

Greg and I have been together for 10 years. Something's wrong with both of us, but it's showing up differently in both of us. And then when you said it's either your house or your spouse, I was like, well, I've moved house a ton. Greg is the one consistent in my life. Poor Greg.

Greg, you know, we're just busting your chops over here. But he became bacteria boy as of that moment. Like my whole community was calling him bacteria boy because we were like, Greg's the problem. So we both had to do antibiotics, which was so funny because I feel like I had subconsciously been avoiding antibiotics because I think in the wellness space, there's like very extreme views on things. And I had a lot of people on the show saying,

telling me how bad antibiotics were. And I know that chronic use of antibiotics is bad. However, clearly there's a time and a place for it, right? So for me it was like the thing that fixed my acne and I had been avoiding it for like 10 years.

Yeah, and also when you think about it, what else can H. pylori cause? Well, it can cause an ulcer, it can also cause gastric cancer. I heard that, yeah. And when you said that people in the wellness space are very polarized, it's so true. We cannot say that hormones are good and then antibiotics are bad.

or just having these very polarizing views, it doesn't necessarily make sense, right? Antibiotics have a time and a place. You're not going to treat pneumonia naturally, I'm sorry. It's just not, you know? You're not going to treat type 1 diabetes naturally. You're going to give a person insulin. Again, this is just my professional opinion, but I do think that we have to have...

a very well-rounded view of why we are saying do something or don't do something. And you had tried to treat your acne. Yeah, with so many different supplements. I tried everything. And at some point supplements are amazing. They're amazing for circling back and help healing the gut, right? There are things like polyphenols which are wonderful for the gut microbiome, things that are in red and green powders, various colors, right?

There are things like colostrum and just various other agents that we can use to help. But you still have to deal with the pathogen. You have to kill it. Yep, exactly. So we did the round of antibiotics. And we also tested you for antibiotic resistance. Yeah. Before we chose antibiotics. And listen, there are certain things that you can treat naturally. For example, if someone has yeast overgrowth, candida.

doesn't mean you have to use diflucan or some kind of medication. You can rein in the diet, you can use herbals, there are agents that can and are effective at killing yeast. But when it comes to something like H. pylori, we know the outcome and also we know the effect that it was having on you. How can people at home test for H. pylori? What a wonderful question. There are ways in which someone can test, you can see your physician, you can get a urea breath test,

Or you can do a stool test. Of course, you can do an endoscopy, which is a scope. Probably not on the routine. It doesn't sound like fun. But there are ways to definitively test for it. Yeah. And we saw in mine, I think I had pretty high levels. And then we tested Greg and we were like, oh, there they are. We both had it. So we both did like, what, three weeks of antibiotics, I think? 14 days. 14 days. Yeah.

three different antibiotics and then... Which is the standard of care. Yeah, and then we had a built-in post-care plan to rebuild the gut, which I think is crucial. It is, and let's talk about that. As your physician, I think it's important that I practice evidence-based medicine and all of our providers do, Dr. Lisa, the other providers...

There's also something to be said for a more integrative approach. That what we see that works anecdotally, that what we've seen over almost 20 years of seeing patients, that there are things like colostrum or prebiotics, things with polyphenols that can really help diversify the gut microbiome, seem to help heal it, you know.

things like glutamine. We were talking about glutamine and we do utilize higher doses of glutamine. Glutamine is an amino acid the body makes, but as your gut goes through challenges, it uses glutamine, those cells in the gut use glutamine for energy. And it's very difficult to get the amount that one would need from the diet. So this would be an amazing place to supplement glutamine for energy.

for gut health, for those cells in the gut. Yeah. So like this rebuild phase, I started... So I had a bunch of things I was doing, but I made this water every day, like my big Stanley cup I have. I would put glutamine, electrolytes, colostrum, bloom colostrum, bloom creatine, which is our new supplement. I'm so glad you came out with a creatine. Do you know the data is...

-Unbelievable. -Yeah. -Have you had Darren Kandao on yet? -No. We got Dr. Kandao pitching you right now. He is a world-class creatine expert. -I'd love to have him on. -And he will tell you that creatine is one of the safest supplements. But not only that, for women, there might be additional benefits for women. Women have what seems to be lower creatine stores and not just based on size.

Which is crazy because I think the way people think about creatine is that it's for men. Totally. So why is it so beneficial for women? I think, well, first of all, let me give you my top supplements that I would say, okay, this is what I think would be valuable for anybody, for women. A protein powder. I am obviously partial to whey protein. A omega-3 fatty acid. Mm-hmm.

some kind of polyphenol that, for example, a red, green, purple or something like urolithin A, which is a prebiotic, creatine at a higher dose than you would think. Creatine at a dose between 3 and 5 is what people think of for women, but creatine, what we are starting to see, what some of the research is coming out and also Dr. Abby Ryan Smith, that women, depending on their phase,

of their menstrual cycle seem to have greater benefit from creatine than other times, which again, I think that you should take creatine every day. I think that it's very unrealistic to dose creatine based on your cycle, whether you're in the luteal phase or even in pregnancy.

So it's safe during pregnancy? You did not hear that from me. Talk to your own doctor, but yes. And you have to understand creatine is made in the body. We get it from sources like red meat, which we are never going to be able to consume enough.

that is going to be meaningful. For example, one pound of red meat might have half a gram of creatine. Yeah. And if you need a minimum of three grams, three to five grams for muscle, 10 for brain health. Yeah. One in eight women will struggle with some kind of mental health issue. Yeah. Whether it's depression, anxiety. Yeah. And part of the reason...

you know, at least I'm beginning to see evidence that part of the reason is this ability to generate energy in the brain. And, you know, these are very broad strokes. I realize that, you know, I'm not giving you the mechanism, right? So I do think that the brain is very complicated. But if we know that women seem to have lower levels of creatine in the brain and that they are very responsive to creatine and it improves mood and memory,

That's extraordinary. Yeah, that's amazing. So also if someone were to take it with, say, an SSRI or something that they are doing already for their mood and brain function, might begin to see synergistic effects. ♪

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Doesn't it hydrate muscles too? It helps with glycogen storage. If say an individual was struggling with performance, there seems to be some evidence that it actually helps with storing those carbohydrates in skeletal muscle. Amazing. It is not going to make you big and bulky. Okay. That's the big thing is girls think it'll make them bloated. That's like the number one

misconception I see. I actually have been taking creatine since the beginning of my fitness journey. And I remember being really nervous. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to look bloated and watery, but it's the best thing ever. And I think that we're going to start to see more women taking creatine. Yeah, I hope so. I believe that it is probably going to be proven to be one of the most useful supplements for midlife. And when I say midlife, I am talking about, so midlife, I guess would be what? 40%

individuals should start before then. What age should they start? I mean, from a health muscle span perspective, I would say as early as they're willing to. Yeah. I mean, when I was 18, I was taking supplements. I don't know if you were taking supplements. I wasn't. I wish I was. I wasn't into fitness when I was 18. It took me until I was 23, 24 to have a mental breakdown and get into fitness.

But think, if you were just to take creatine... Kidding aside, I definitely believe women of childbearing age in their reproductive prime would benefit greatly from creatine. Creatine is considered, it's something called a carnane nutrient where it is really found in animal products.

mainly red meat, which is that's where the name carny nutrient came from. So it occurs naturally in foods, which is the recipe for a great supplement. Yes. Okay. And when you think about it, let's talk about who responds most to creatine. Number one, individuals that are eating likely a low creatine diet. So vegan vegetarians can really benefit from creatine. Okay. Okay.

Individuals that are tired, there may be evidence to support it seems to give people more energy in training, decreasing fatigue. Brain function could improve mood and improve just overall thought process. That's amazing. Yeah, that's pretty extraordinary. It is. And the safety profile.

We know that there is a high safety profile. It's the most studied supplement in the supplement industry, correct? It's been around for 60 some years. Sal DiStefano is a big fan of it. He's in Austin, by the way. What? I know. I'm texting him immediately. He may have left already. He was supposed to come on the show, but I was like too booked up the schedule. You have a lot happening. Yes, ma'am. We love Sal. Sal's the best. Yes, ma'am. Oh, he's such a cutie.

He loves his kids. Yes, he does. And, you know, every time Sal and I chat, we always talk about body composition. I have to say it's one of the things if we think about women, it really plagues young women. Yeah. There is a lot of pressure now more than ever.

For sure. And I think this look of like, I don't know what to call it, but it's this like cigarette skinny vibe is very in right now. Is it really? I think so. Like when I go on TikTok and I see these girls, it's like stick skinny legs. And there was like a muscle mommy. I told you what that was, right?

No. I made it up. Maybe I taught Sal. Who did I have on the show that I talked to? So they have a program called Muscle Mommy and I was like... Oh, yeah. So that's what you call girls who are like muscled up and have like nice glutes and stuff. Like you're a muscle mommy for sure. No, no. You said nice glutes so I don't actually fall into that category but I'll take it. I'll take it. I can't grow my glutes either. It's all...

I mean, I did tear my hamstring, but it's just a challenge. So think about it. The most important organ from my perspective when it comes to longevity is muscle. Yeah.

The more healthy muscle mass you have, the greater your survivability against nearly anything that's going to kill you. The more healthy muscle mass you have, the stronger, let's say the stronger you are, the greater your survivability. There's nothing more important and it's the only thing that we can control. Isn't it also great for like menopause and PCOS? Yes. So many things. It is the metabolic sync. When we have...

chronic disease, we have to think, okay, well, where does that start? The majority of chronic diseases are metabolic in nature. Yeah. Where do we push the envelope for metabolism? Muscle.

You know, and fertility is an interesting thing because fertility rates have declined over years from both men and sperm count for women and also sperm count for men. Why do you think that is? I have my theories. I don't have an evidence-based answer, but I do have theories. Do you know cholesterol levels have also declined? Really? Is that correlated?

I think that we also have hormone levels declining like testosterone. -Is it correlated? Probably. -Yeah. I think fertility, we are way sedentary. 50% of the population doesn't exercise. Majority of people are either overweight or obese. Diet is very poor quality. Diet affects sperm, diet affects egg health, diet affects how we operate.

Also, I think that we are exposed to a lot of things that are in the environment that we have not had to deal with in the past. Yeah. So our bodies are just freaking out. And I will tell you, I'm going to say this sounds really fringe. I'm saying it here for the first time. I do think that we have a lot of light pollution and a lot of circadian misalignment. Hmm.

Just like lights in our faces all day in office buildings. All day. We're not – I just don't think that that's the way that we were designed. And so even though it's outside of our conscious awareness, I think it still affects us. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I know that sounds crazy. I don't think so. But think about it. I mean. I think all of these things together are creating an environment that we're not meant to be in. Yeah. I'm glad we're talking about fertility because it's a big focus of mine and yours together is like. No, no, we're not focusing on it. Just kidding.

That's the biggest thing is like, don't think about it. But when I came to you, I was like, hey, this is like a really big goal of mine. And I guess like a question I have, because you mentioned like a lot of people are struggling with obesity and metabolic issues. As someone who's like healthy and lean and I take care of myself, sometimes I get to the place where I'm like, well, do I need to put on weight in order to get pregnant? Because I hear people saying that to me as well. So it's kind of confusing of like,

really the right thing to do. I think the fertility space is so overwhelming and confusing. And every, I mean, you know, when I came to you, I was like, I am getting advice from a million people. I'm so confused. I'm trying a million things. But when you also came to me, you had acne and you had gotten advice from a million people. Yeah. And I say that because the best, the people that do the best are

eliminate distraction. You hone in, you have your team, you have your people, the rest is noise. Everybody has different experience and different input. And here's what I will tell you. People will say, oh, well, you need to put on weight to become pregnant, right? Let's say, even though we know that the average BMI is really high. That is not your challenge. When a woman is not cycling,

because she's too underweight, that's a problem. Yeah. Right? But I have a regular cycle, regular ovulation. You're doing great. You want it on your terms and the baby wants it on the baby's terms. And that's part of how that goes, you know? Yeah. But I do think fertility for people is a challenge in general. You know, it's probably the number one. I was thinking about what are the number one things that young women struggle with?

Body image. Body image. Yeah. Fertility. Fertility. Mental health in general. And then weight. Yeah. Women will have tried a million different types of diets. Yeah. But, you know. What would you say is your top advice for women listening who want to conceive and they're like, oh my gosh, I'm exposed to all these toxins. I don't know what to do. Like, what's the first place to start? Yeah.

That is a wonderful question. And the first place to start, I would say, again, from my experience is you have to eliminate the chaos because the pregnant, like a woman's body, again, this is, I'm not giving you evidence here. I'm just giving you years of practice. The more stressed an individual is,

I am telling you, it seems like the lower likelihood that they get pregnant because it's so much pressure. The body doesn't want to do – if the body doesn't feel safe, then I think it's very difficult to conceive. That's the first thing. It has to be – it's going to happen. It's not an if, it's a when. And then I think that –

when an individual removes themselves from that kind of pressure. And think about the frame, the lens that I'm looking at this. I am someone who believes we put ourselves in pressured situations, right? I am someone who believes you dive in and you do the hard thing. This is the one area that I can confidently say you don't. And it's the only area.

I know when I first started working with you, I'd met you before and I knew who you were and I knew what you stood for. And I remember the first conversation we had about

pregnancy and you were like you need to chill out and I was shocked because I was like oh this doesn't feel like you you are the person who's like do the hard things put yourself through it and I'm that person too yes you are I'm very type a um very controlling and like everything else I've done in my life I'm like work hard and you'll make it happen that's right this is the one thing

that I can't control and I can't work harder at necessarily. And there's probably a lesson in allowing. For sure. And you have to understand, you know where I'm coming from. You know that I am like, okay, it's hard, suck it up. We're like, do it. Yeah. But there is a level of pressure and demand...

that the body, whether it's within your conscious awareness or not, the body feels that. And you will hear that over and over again. The moment someone is like, I'm not worried about it, I'm not thinking about it. And you know it, right? You hear that. But I think that it's also a reasonable challenge.

Yeah. To let go is the hardest part. Like you can take all the supplements, you can do all the things. That's right. It's the letting go part. And I feel like I've gotten better at it. You have. Like when I first met you, it was truly every minute I was thinking about it. And now it's to the point where I'm like, I don't really think about it until someone asks me.

Obviously, if something happens, like I get a negative test, that will set me off for a couple days. But also, it's going to happen. And then you're going to call me. You're like, I don't know why I was rushing this so much. Oh, my God. There is just diaper. And it's just a whole thing. It is a whole thing. But I do think that you're very brave to be talking about this because it's a personal thing. And it can be very challenging because...

You've been so disciplined in every aspect of your life. I mean, you're a very hard worker. Thank you. And I think that you're going into a moment where it has to, you have no control over this.

Yeah, and actually you'll be proud of me. I looked at my calendar because we have this event. I mean, guys, Dr. Gabrielle's in town right now because we have a big event tomorrow. We have a dinner tonight. Thank you so much for doing this, by the way. You also know that I made your deal, right? Whatever you ask me will always be a yes, so just pick it. You're the best.

Thank you. But I'm doing too much. And I like going to LA Monday. So I looked at my calendar and I was like, you know what? I'm deleting some things. I got rid of another event I was doing. I got rid of a bunch of interviews I was doing. I had to, because I was like, this needs to be my priority right now. And if I keep shoving my calendar full, when am I going to calm down? I will tell you, you know, I...

When I knew I wanted to have a child, I was a hard no and then all of a sudden I was a yes. Really? Yes. I was absolutely not, I'm not going to have any kids. I feel like you're such a mom to me. I mean, but I was an absolute hard no. I was a hard no. Yeah. And then there was a moment where I'm like, if I don't do this, I'm not going to have kids, right? Like this is the time.

And I had to really, at the time, I was training for a 50-hour event. I was bananas with my exercise, bananas with like, I was so rigid and so pushing my body that there was no way I was going to get pregnant. So what did you do? I was fasting till noon. I was training like a maniac. And I'm like, oh, you know, I want to get pregnant. It's never going to happen. So what did I do?

I stopped fasting. I started totally reducing my training. You know, when I say training like a crazy person, you're talking two to three hours a day. Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, some people do that. That sounds fun for me, right? That was a lot. Really reduced my training and the kind of training, it wasn't really central nervous system stress. It was, again, this is what I did. I'm not necessarily telling someone else to do it,

I really, I can't believe I'm talking about this stuff. I love it. This is different for you. I never, that's right. I talk about it privately, but never. I really softened. Yeah. I did acupuncture all the time. I just softened my whole way of being. Yeah. Yeah.

Weightlifting still or no? Yeah, but I wasn't doing 100 pull-ups a day followed by sprint intervals, followed by max deadlifts and squats. It was totally different. It was I'm training because I'm preparing my body for pregnancy. That makes me feel a lot better because, I mean, coming from you, someone who's like I know a super hard worker and super dedicated to fitness –

I've been struggling. I've been trying to soften up too and I'm not working out as much or as hard as I used to and things just feel a little bit different. Yeah. And I have a certain amount of guilt about it and I feel like hearing that makes me feel a lot better. ♪

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Let me address camera because I don't have a hoodie on anymore because I got hot and I have a cough dropping because I had a cough explosion. But we're back. Understatement of the cough explosion. I thought I was going to have to do CPR on set. First time ever. It's kind of like the moment where you hear on the loudspeaker on the airplane where someone goes...

Excuse me. Is there a doctor on the airplane? Please come to seat 3A. This has never happened to me. Of course it happens when you're here. Thank God. I had a moment. I almost hit the ground. Chest press. I had to stand up. Chest compressions. I got it. We're back. Heimlich maneuver. And I'm really upset because we were getting really deep. Yeah, I was just telling you that I don't actually ever really talk about myself because...

I think that part of my personal experience may be unimportant, but I think that I should share more and where better to share. I don't think it's unimportant. I think, well, first of all, in so many ways, I and other people look up to you because you're like this tough superwoman. And to hear that you also pulled back for pregnancy actually hypes me up about pulling back because I've had a lot of guilt about it.

And then something else I look up to you in a lot of ways

is that you are a fantastic mom and I've seen you in action to your two adorable kids. You mean the two children that are here that you might not say that tomorrow after our event? Well, I've seen them a couple of times and I just love them. I think they're the cutest things ever. And I know you're super involved. Like you do everything yourself. Well, not totally, but mostly. Mostly. I have a little bit of help, but it's really important to me to do it

the good and the bad you know it's not always amazing when they're throwing a tantrum but but as like a business owner a public fit i mean you do so much you're flying around the world all the time the fact that you pull this off i think is incredible and i also think the way your i remember your daughter was like explaining to me what she eats for people listening who have kids

that want them to eat healthy, that want them to get enough protein, how do you teach your kid what the difference is between something that's good or bad? You know what I mean? Very thoughtfully because the last thing that I want to do is to create any kind of body image issue, emotional tie to eating. We talk all about does this fuel your body to be healthy? We talk nothing about weight. We talk nothing about the way a person looks. Do you feel good being strong?

My kids, you will see them come to the gym and train with me. Pushing and pulling a sled. That's extraordinary. And it is proof to me that for the young moms listening right now, it is possible and they are our future. And it's so much better to instill good habits now than have them spend a lifetime trying to break old bad ones. Period. So you model good behavior, which I do.

And if someone offers me something that's gross, I say, "You know what? I don't eat that. I'm not the type of person that eats that. That's not good for my body." And she listens and obviously they're not perfect, right? They want goldfish or whatever and I'll just say, "Hey, is this a good choice? Is it going to make you feel good?"

And they are incredibly capable. I think that if you remove these-- but we don't have junk at the house, right? And I think that parents really need to understand that, yeah, kids are going to throw a tantrum, but at the end of the day, they eat what you provide. And so you have to make a really good choice. And you have to make those choices for yourself. Yeah, and show them what that looks like. They do not care what you say. Same with working out.

You know, we live in this epidemic of sedentary behavior. People are all on their phones. We just drove to come see you two and a half hours. How much electronics do you think those kids got? I'd be curious. Zero. Wow. What do they do the whole time? Scream, mostly. I feel like whenever I call you, you're like, hey! Don't jump in the pool! Sorry, can't talk right now, but...

What do they do? We play I Spy or we sing songs. But if I as a parent become dependent on external resources... Miss Rachel. Then I will teach my children to not be able to regulate their emotions and also become dependent on external resources. Right. And remember, we are not raising children.

We're building strong humans. How do we build strong humans and the next generation? And we do it by being very intentional. What does, and I don't know if you feel comfortable disclosing, maybe just give a couple examples, but what's like a day in a life eating like for them? For them, breakfast is typically some kind of eggs. So they know what is protein and what's not.

Breakfast is usually eggs and what I'll do is I'll let my daughter help make them and then she'll be up for it. She'll eat some eggs with some cheese, maybe she'll make it for her brother. She usually misses when we're making eggs, I can definitely count on at least one egg not making it into the pan. And you know how knowing that is, it gets into the whatever, the bottom of the stove, just the whole thing. And then some kind of berries or fruit. Yeah.

Maybe a yogurt and it's really easy. My son, he likes dried fruit and milk. It's not ideal. Or he loves a beef stick. That kid, he eats beef sticks like...

It's unbelievable. That's great. I mean, he's like, wants a beef stick. It's a great snack. So that's breakfast. Now lunch, this is interesting. So lunch, we usually pack for them. But my daughter wants to eat the school lunch. And she wants to eat it because it's not that healthy. Yeah, I was going to ask, like, how do you control when they go to school? I don't. I will pack and I'll ask her to please at least have some of that and then make her additional choice. What is the school lunch? It's garbage. Okay.

That sucks. It's garbage. Does that frustrate you? Yeah. But I also recognize, so I thought about it. I have two ways to go. I can go and I can talk to the school about how they shouldn't have pasta for lunch. And maybe the listener is like, well, pasta is not bad. Or they shouldn't have, I don't know, tacos and fried chicken or whatever it is because they'll have fruit or they'll have something else. They shouldn't have pizza. I mean, they serve these kids. And here's what I would say. If I...

take away her ability to choose, she's never going to learn how to regulate and have some kind of restraint. Every day she tells me what she has for lunch and she waits for the reaction. She's like, "Mom, I had chips and cheese."

It's so funny, right? She's like, "But I also had the pepper and beef that you packed." Okay, great. And then dinner we're pretty tight. It's some kind of protein, some kind of vegetable and some kind of like potato or something. It's nice that you give her the choice also because I hear about kids who are over restricted or just like eating healthy so much that they go to their friend's house and they just binge on garbage. Yeah.

I try to think ahead about that happening, you know? And just if you teach them to make good choices, then they're able to exercise the ability to choose. And I think that ultimately we all have choices with our health, whether we're going to make good decisions and ultimately a life is built on these choices.

small, insignificant choices over time that build up to either good health, poor health, good habits, not good habits. And we just have to be very aware that it's all of these little choices over time that create a big picture. And as you said, the best thing that you can do is really be the example. It's essential. Yeah. So when I think about what are the things that I do that are healthy, I wake up, I train.

My children, three days a week, they can choose to come with me or they can choose not to. It's their choice. Then, well, first I highly caffeinate. Not proud of it, but yes, it happens. You know, highly caffeinate and then I'll train and then I'll come back. I'll have breakfast and my supplements. I'll have, depending on what kind of cycle I'm in, I'll have fish oil with like some eggs, some yogurt, whatever.

I'll usually have a green drink, I'll throw creatine in there, 5 grams in the morning. Yeah, multi, depending on what mood I'm in. So you're not fasting anymore? No, but I used to all the time. Do you still think it's beneficial? I think that there's going to be some data that comes out that's going to blow your mind. In a good way or a bad way? Shockingly not in a positive way.

For women. For women. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. Infertility and peri-postmenopausal women. What I think that is going to come out, and this hasn't been published yet, but I do know some of the researchers working on it, that those individuals that go through periods of fasting change their resting energy expenditure. So the amount of energy that they burn at rest so significantly, it could be upwards of 500 calories a day. So then when they go to eat, they're now struggling...

to lose weight because their energy metabolism has slowed down. Interesting. If you think about it, if your energy metabolism slows down by 500 calories, meaning you're burning 500 calories less a day. Yeah, that's a significant amount. That's a significant amount and it might actually be a little bit more.

Interesting. I always felt like maybe this is a crazy theory, but I feel like if you think ancestrally, women were gathering and like eating little bits all day and men were kind of going longer stretches without eating.

I don't know if that makes sense. I don't know. But to me, I wake up hungry and like I can't... That's a good sign. I would have to force myself to not eat for hours and I feel awful when I do that. And I also think, remember how I'd mentioned this idea of circadian biology? Yeah. That I think the light is affecting us. I also believe that because we're so dysregulated with light, we should probably eat when the sun is out.

which means instead of pushing a fasting window later, we probably should be eating earlier. What time do you eat dinner? I mean, we try to eat by 6.30, 7 o'clock. Greg and I as well. You know? Yeah, yeah. I like eating early. I feel like I digest before bed. I can't eat too late. If I go out for, I cannot, first of all, I won't accept a dinner reservation that's past 7. Yeah.

I won't because if you do that, you don't know me very well, you know? Like I have to be in bed at 8.30, so this isn't going to work. Which is probably really good. And I think that, you know, we talk a lot, like our last podcast, we talked a lot about muscle and protein and that is a huge layer, right? You have to get that right. I recommend close to one gram per pound ideal body weight. Yeah.

If you want to be plant-based, fine, if you don't want to be plant-based, fine, but really higher protein is better. Then you think about training, right? What are the training things that we have to do to optimize muscle? You have to lift, you have to do that two to three times a week. It's non-negotiable, you cannot replace it with walking, yoga is great, but you really should be doing some kind of resistance training, right? So this is the foundation. And then I think the next level is we start to think about our environment.

our interaction with the outside world, our relationship with light, our relationship with feeding timing, these kind of things that as we think about the greater complexities of a woman, fertility, these things, I think that we layer in appropriate and meaningful habits

like the time of day that you eat. I think that we can really begin to optimize our health choosing-- you've got your macro styled in, what is the next layer of supplements you have? Why are you taking it? What is the hierarchy of health and wellness? What are the things that you are really paying attention to and for what reason?

Very well said. Also, we touched on this last time, but just to mention, I think people are going to be thinking about it. With the wave of people on Ozempic for weight loss,

and losing a lot of weight quickly and potentially losing muscle, what should they be doing right now? First thing, I will say Ozempic, Terzepatide, which is Monderno, these are GLP-1, GIP, Agnes. Nothing has been more impactful in obesity medicine or weight loss than these drugs. They are more effective than bariatric surgery.

someone going on Ozempic could lose 15% of their body weight. We have never seen anything like this. And I did a fellowship in nutritional sciences and obesity medicine. So part of what I did was run an obesity clinic. These drugs have changed the game for people. So there's lots of controversy. People are like against it, for it. They're very polarized, which is interesting because I don't think that

There's a reason for that polarity. And also it's someone's choice. Whether you have 10 pounds to lose or 100 pounds to lose, it is body autonomy. It is an individual's choice. We should not be defining who can be taking it or who should and who shouldn't. Yeah. Dr. Tina was here yesterday and she said the same thing. It is fully our choice.

So that being said, when you lose weight quickly, you always lose a percentage of lean body mass. Lean body mass is organs, it's bone, it's anything outside of fat. That will happen.

The medications can expedite weight loss, which is all-encompassing, right? Again, the slower you lose weight when you have a higher protein diet, again, what does it say in the literature? 1.6 grams per kg, which comes out to 0.7 grams per pound. You can go higher. You will maintain lean tissue. Lean tissue is not just muscle.

50 or so percent of lean tissue is skeletal muscle. So when your listeners are hearing lean body mass, what does that mean? That actually means liver and bone and organs and all kinds of things. Connective tissue, right? It's not just muscle, those things. And that becomes important. And the other thing that I'll say, which I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about, is that when you lose weight, you also lose intramuscular fat. Yes. Yes.

And that will change, quote, the lean mass because the technology isn't necessarily sensitive enough to look at the quality and the morphology of the skeletal muscle. So if the muscle is like lean, it's mostly red and you see lines in it and then a fatty muscle has like marbling in it. Right. Okay. But...

the lean body mass, if it's measured by DEX or extrapolated in that way, isn't going to necessarily differentiate between the quality of that muscle tissue. So when you hear this weight loss with these medications, it's not all bad. You're losing visceral fat, but you're also losing fat within that skeletal muscle, which would then also make people think, oh, well, this is not good, you're also losing muscle. But you're losing...

You're improving the quality of that tissue. Makes a lot of sense. What are you going to do to also augment that? You are going to eat dietary protein and you're going to do resistance training. We use this all the time in our clinic. Yep. And we do not see them losing a tremendous amount of

The lifestyle has to match up with the plan. You also don't have to dose it aggressively. I think that's, yeah, we were talking about that yesterday, Dr. Tina. I think a lot of people are overusing Ozempic. I mean, in LA, it's like an epidemic. These girls are on crazy high doses. And they're probably on too high a dose. Yeah. Like unable to eat, throwing up. It's crazy. Yeah, that's not a good look. That's...

That's going to be tough. I certainly don't think that that's advisable, right? But when we do think about what is it that these medications do is I think they affect also inflammation, systemic inflammation. And whether it's the loss of body fat or not, but the reduction of inflammation, which is, you know, who knows?

We see it improve cardiovascular risk. We see it improve HSCRP, which is a marker of inflammation. We see it improve fertility. I'm sure Dr. Tino talked about that. We see various things that these medications can improve, which is extraordinary. Yeah, and I think it's important to talk about the benefits outside of weight loss because that seems to be...

the thing everyone's fixated on. And it's amazing that it's doing that for people, but there's so many benefits outside of it. And I learned a ton yesterday from doctors. What was your biggest takeaway? I think the drug and alcohol addiction, I knew it helped with addictive tendencies, but I didn't think about how powerful that could be. She was talking about the homeless population, rehabilitation. Like imagine that effect, that could save someone's life, you know? It's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, thank you so much for coming on for part two. Can you tell everyone again where to find your show, your books, everything? Yes. So I have a podcast, The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show, which is a top podcast in medicine. You were on it. I have a website, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. We do take patients. We take patients for nutrition, for training, private patients...

They can find me on Instagram, YouTube, OnlyFans. Just kidding. Totally kidding. Just kidding. Muscle mommy. Yeah, just kidding, guys. Sorry to disappoint. Andrew Huberman's show. Yes, I did a wonderful interview with Andrew. I think that was very helpful in terms of talking about the science. Yeah, I'm sure that opened a lot of people's eyes. Yeah. Thank you so much. Of course, of course.

Thanks for joining us on the Pursuit of Wellness podcast. To support this show, please rate and review and share with your loved ones. If you want to be reminded of new episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast or video player. You can sign up for my newsletter to receive my favorites at marielowelland.com. It will be linked in the show notes.

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