We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!
Export Podcast Subscriptions
S
Simon Miles
播
播音员
主持著名true crime播客《Crime Junkie》的播音员和创始人。
Simon Miles: 详细阐述了其在捷克和东德档案馆的研究结果，指出苏联方面对Able Archer 83演习的记录中，缺乏证据表明苏联当时处于高度戒备或认为存在迫在眉睫的核战争威胁。他认为，西方普遍接受的‘差点发生核战争’的说法主要基于戈尔杰夫斯基的单一证词，其可靠性值得怀疑。Miles 认为，戈尔杰夫斯基的动机可能与他需要营救滞留在苏联的家人有关，因此夸大了事件的严重性。
Ed Helms: 作为播音员，Helms 概述了本集的核心问题：对Able Archer 83事件的传统叙事是否准确？本集将深入探讨这一问题，并分析来自不同方面的证据，包括苏联和东德的档案记录以及戈尔杰夫斯基和鲁普的证词。
播音员: 播音员总结了事件的多种观点，包括：安德罗波夫和布什的会面暗示公开言论与实际政策之间的差异；佩鲁兹将军关于苏联空军部署核武器的说法与苏联档案缺乏相关记录形成对比；要证明‘差点发生核战争’的说法，需要来自东欧阵营的强有力证据，而目前这些证据并不存在；戈尔杰夫斯基和鲁普的证词都缺乏关键证据，并且都有作伪证的动机；苏联领导人热衷于冷战表演，因此宣传理论可能是正确的。
Simon Miles: He detailed his research findings in the Czech and East German archives, pointing out that Soviet records of the Able Archer 83 exercise lacked evidence that the Soviet Union was on high alert or believed there was an imminent threat of nuclear war. He believes that the widely accepted Western narrative of a ‘near nuclear war’ is mainly based on Gordievsky’s single testimony, the reliability of which is questionable. Miles believes that Gordievsky’s motives may be related to his need to rescue his family stranded in the Soviet Union, and therefore exaggerated the severity of the event.
Ed Helms: As a narrator, Helms outlines the core question of this episode: Is the traditional narrative of the Able Archer 83 event accurate? This episode will delve into this question and analyze evidence from various sources, including Soviet and East German archival records and the testimonies of Gordievsky and Rupp.
Narrator: The narrator summarizes various perspectives on the event, including: the meeting between Andropov and Bush suggests a difference between public statements and actual policies; General Perutz’s account of the Soviet Air Force deploying nuclear weapons contrasts with the lack of relevant records in Soviet archives; to prove the claim of ‘near nuclear war’, strong evidence from the Eastern bloc is needed, but currently such evidence does not exist; Gordievsky and Rupp’s testimonies both lack key evidence, and both have motives to fabricate; Soviet leaders were keen on Cold War performances, so the propaganda theory may be correct.
Deep Dive
Andropov, the former head of the KGB, meets with former head of the CIA George Bush Sr. at Brezhnev's funeral, discussing the coded language and public consumption in their countries, hinting at deeper understanding between leaders of nuclear-armed superpowers.
Shownotes Transcript