3 Steps To Dealing With A Cancerous Teammate | Ep 233
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Keeping cancerous teammates around is literally the most expensive mistake that you could make. They kill productivity, they destroy morale, and they push away your best people. They make everything worse. But when you take action, everything can change. What's up guys, welcome back to Build. And today we are talking about a topic that every entrepreneur, great business owner, manager, or team leader is going to face. And that is, what do you do when you've got a cancer on your team?

Trust me, I know this topic and I know it too well because guess what? Even if you build an amazing culture, you build that culture because you make sure that you don't have cancers on your teams. And so it's not that businesses that have amazing cultures and have great businesses don't ever have to deal with cancerous teammates. It's that they know how to deal with cancerous teammates. It's that it's not that they never have them on the team. It's that they know how to respond when they are on the team. And so this is really top of mind for me because I'm

when I was building my first company, this was one of the hardest things I had to protect for and from. And even today with acquisition.com, it is one of those things I am on the lookout for. Because here's the thing, when your business starts growing quickly,

People are desperate for help, right? They want to bring people on the team. They want those people to help them. They're feeling like, gosh, I really need somebody to help me. I'm desperate, right? And so sometimes what happens is that they might, you know, use rose-colored glasses when they're selecting people to be on the team. You do your best to make sure that people cannot get on the team who are cancers when you're hiring. And

And you do your best to make sure that your hiring managers don't have rose-colored glasses. But sometimes these people are going to sneak through. And so what I want to talk about is what do you do when these people do end up on your team? How do you handle it the right way? And why is it that leaders wait so long to take action? And I will give you the spoiler alert, okay? Keeping cancerous people on your team costs you way fucking more than you think. Financially, emotionally, and culturally.

ironically, to the other degree, cutting them out actually provides an amazing opportunity for the team to strengthen your culture. And so I want to break this down for you guys, because this is probably one of the biggest areas that I see inexperienced leaders or people who have had good businesses, but not great cultures struggle. And it's something that I try to protect against with all my might, but nobody's perfect. No business is perfect. No team is perfect. So first thing I want to talk about

Why is it so important to remove cancerous teammates quickly? Okay, think about it literally like cancer. You want to catch it when it's small because if it's not small, what happens to cancer? It spreads. Okay, so to put it bluntly, a cancerous teammate is not just a small problem. It is a ticking time bomb. It is only a matter of time because you think, you see it and you're like, you know, they're not that bad. You know, they're not this, they're not that. They're only doing this little thing.

Right now, that's what they're doing right now. You just haven't seen it play out yet. I have never had an instance in my business where I've had somebody who's cancerous on the team, who does insidious things, who is malicious, is sabotaging. I've never had that person remain isolated. I've never had the problems that they've created stay small. The only times that they remain isolated and small is when I got them the fuck off the team.

to put it bluntly, okay? Because here's the thing, the longer you let them stay, the more damage they cause. And so you need to act fast, okay? This is crazy. One toxic teammate can reduce team productivity by 30 to 40%.

They are not just dragging themselves down, okay? They pull everybody else down with them. That or sometimes they're the high performer, right? We've all got the toxic high performer who they overperform. And the reason that they stand out is because they step on everybody else, right? And so you think, oh gosh, this person is amazing, but it's obvious to everybody else that they're not. And I can tell you the funny thing is that a lot of the times people are worried. They're like, oh, I'm going to get this person on the team. Like everyone's going to be so scared and upset and all those things.

I had two months ago, a teammate who was a clear cancer on a team. And I had to come in, I'd tell this manager, I was like, listen, you got to get this person off the team. Like, it's not about skill. It's not about this. Like this person is sabotaging teammates. This person is speaking ill of teammates. This person is shit talking people on our team. This is the opposite of our culture. And it took them a minute because I think they had a blind spot to it. But once they saw it, they were like, you know, you're right, we got to get this person off the team. And

And let me tell you what happened after we got that person off the team. They were so worried. They're like, I don't know if the other teammates are going to go with them, if they're going to think, oh my gosh, or all these things, or like if they're going to be scared or, you know what that team did? That team fucking celebrated. They were happy that person was gone. They said, thank you so much. Thank you for saving us. Can you believe that? I felt terrible. Thank you for saving us because this person was such a toxic teammate.

That's the thing though. They don't just drag themselves down. They pull everybody else with them and those people don't want to be there. They don't want to live there. But also humans don't want to say no to people. A lot of people have a hard time saying no. They have a hard time speaking against somebody who's very authoritative. And that's a lot of times what these people are like, right? They're going to be negative. They're going to try and convince everybody else that they're right and everyone else is wrong. And they're going to drag everybody else down their lane of misery. Which kind of brings me to my second point of why you need to ask fast is that

If you don't catch it soon, negativity is the only thing, the only thing that spreads faster than negativity is wildfire. Because if one person is gossiping, if they're sabotaging, if they're undermining others, if they're refusing to take ownership, it starts to influence everybody, even your best people, because they start to question what is acceptable here. If this person's on the team, why do I have to act so great?

If this is okay and they get to stay here with this behavior, why should I act so amazing? Why should I work so hard? Why should I take ownership? Why should I not shit talk? Apparently it's okay. Cultural contamination is what I call it. You have contaminated the culture. And guys, I will tell you one thing.

I will do anything to protect the culture. It does not matter at what stakes. I swear to God, every time I have realized, like when I thought like there's no way I can get rid of this person, it's going to be so bad. It's all these things. If I have done it to protect the culture, I have gained so much more from others on the team by getting rid of that person that I have never, ever, ever had it put me in a

Okay, I'm talking companies doing hundreds of millions of dollars. Never put me in a bad spot because they're contaminating the culture. They're spreading the negativity and they're reducing the output of everybody else on the team. You just don't see it. You don't see it because maybe you haven't done it before. Maybe you haven't gotten rid of these people before or maybe you're just scared. And that's, listen, rightfully so. I get it, especially if you're strapped and you're like, we're already thin. How are we going to get rid of this person? Promise you, it's going to be easier without them.

And the last reason why I would argue that we want to act fast, reputation. Okay, so think about it like this, right? If your clients or your customers sense the dysfunction in your team, it reflects poorly on you. And keeping a cancerous person, right, a cancer on the team, sends a message that mediocrity or bad behavior is acceptable. And then people start to question your customers, your clients start to think, oh gosh, I'm

Are those the people that are going to be servicing my account? Are those the people that are going to be providing me support? Are these the kind of people that work at this company? And they start to see you differently because guess what? Your customers only judge you by the interactions they have with your company. And if the only person they interact with is this cancerous teammate, they will see your entire company as cancerous. Let that sink in.

If the productivity killer, if the contaminating the culture wasn't enough, think about your reputation. Think about your customers and clients. Now, on the other side, the bright side of all this, okay? Something really cool. If you remove a cancerous employee, studies have shown and can support this, that there will be a 54% improvement in teamwork and an 80% reduction in stress levels for the rest of the team. So what that means is you don't just stop the bleeding when you get that person out.

It actually strengthens your team. And I think a lot of people, like I, in the beginning, when I would like, you know, people would be like, you need to get these people on the team. I'd be so scared. I'd be like, oh my God, I have so much going on. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't have enough team to take this on. Like my clients are going to leave all these things. And every single time over the last decade, like there's not one time I can think of where this didn't happen. Things got better. Everyone was happier. People were less stressed and everyone was more productive.

And then I always stepped back and I was like, holy crap. Like I had no idea how much, I have chills thinking about it. I had no idea how much these people weighed on me. I had no idea how much attention it took for me knowing that I kept somebody like that on my team. Knowing that I had to walk into my fucking office every day and see somebody who's cancerous, who I know is talking shit, who I know is insidious, who I know is bringing people down. I need my attention back.

And so if none of those things have convinced you, know this, you will have an 80% reduction in stress. You will feel better and you will have more integrity with yourself for being the leader that you know your team deserves by doing the right thing. I think that we've gotten to the point where we understand we need to do something about this, right? So you have somebody on your team right now. I'm sure they're coming to mind as you're listening to this and you're like, dang it, Sally.

Why'd you do this to me? I'm listening to Layla's podcast. Now I'm like, shit, Sally's got to go. Okay. But how do you do this in a way that's effective and it can minimize fallout? Okay. I've really just broken this down into three steps to make it super simple for you. Because here's the thing, 17 steps to getting this person, like we don't need that shit. We need three steps that you can just do this quickly. Okay. The first one is identify the problem quickly. Cancer is not hard to spot. It's just hard to admit.

You want to look for patterns. Look at gossip. Look at laziness. Look at entitlement. Look at overall negativity. Look at somebody that complains for the sake of complaining, right? And I would say those people are like, if the rest of the team is saying all these great things and you can tell they're being honest and one person is saying a bunch of shitty things,

That's probably the cancer, right? You want to pull the thread. Every time you see something, every time you notice something, I don't want you to leave the thread unpulled. You need to pull that thread early, okay? Now, once you've pulled the thread, you're like, all right, I see that there's a problem. I see what you're talking about. I see where this is existing in my business. The second thing you need to do is address it directly, okay? So a lot of people, they're like, the moment they address it, or I'm sorry, the moment that they notice it, they're like, Laila,

I need to fire them immediately. Look at all these and blah, blah, blah. They're toxic. And I'm like, yes, yes, yes. They're toxic. Have you told them? And then they're like, fuck, what? I have to tell them? I have to tell them that their behavior is unacceptable? Yes, you have to tell them their behavior is fucking unacceptable. I know this is hard, but this is what we've got to do to be a great organization because everybody

Imagine this, right? Imagine that when people go up to you and they ask you, did they know what they were doing wrong before you fired them? What are you gonna tell your team?

I say this all the time. I'm like, it's for everybody else, not for them. You know that they are, how do I put this? They're beyond help. Like that's been identified. I get it. And I know what those people are like. And I'm like, yeah, this just is never going to work. Like you're like a two, maybe I'll get you to a five. You're never going to be a 10. And I just know that. And I can tell because I've done this enough times. I've done it for a decade. And I can just see the kind of people that like, they just aren't part of the culture. I get that. But

Having a one-on-one conversation with somebody and making them completely aware about the specific behaviors that are unacceptable keeps it professional and keeps it compliant. And it sets an example because when this person is no longer on the team, you can stand behind when you say to the rest of the team, I told them what was unacceptable. I documented what was unacceptable and they were aware. This is very important. And all you have to say to that person is this.

Hey, I heard that the other day you were in the lobby and you were talking shit about these two people. I just want you to understand that behavior isn't aligned with the team standards. It's impacting the group negatively. And I need you to immediately stop doing that. And if you do not stop doing that, then this is gonna be a different conversation. This...

step is so important because right here, you're making it clear to the person. So if there's any chance that they are the 0.1% that is just completely unaware, then you're gonna bring them back in right then.

And for the 99%, that is beyond repair, right? You're like, they are definitely a cancer. They're shit talking. They're lazy. They're all these things. You know that when you tell the team that person's no longer here, that you've done everything in your power. And that is so important for you as a leader so you can stand there and you can have integrity. Okay, so don't skip that step just because you know this person is beyond repair. Now, the last step.

Take fast action. What's likely gonna happen, I know this is crazy, in a lot of the situations, one of two things will happen. The 0.1%, they might actually change their behavior. And hey, that's fucking great. You threw a Hail Mary and now this cancer has turned and it's become benign. And you're like, wow, that's great. Now they've got a long way to go because it's like you'd have to earn back the trust of the team. You'd have to do the, and like, it's a tough road. For the other 99%, their behavior is likely going to get worse. I know that's crazy.

However, the moment that somebody who's acting bad knows that people are watching them, they tend to trip up more often. It's like they get in their heads about it and they start monitoring themselves and they get angry about the fact that you brought it up to them. There's all this inner turmoil going on. So here's the thing. If the behavior continues and the behavior goes up in terms of frequency and intensity, do not hesitate to exit that person from your company.

Here's the thing. The longer they stay, the more that they kill morale, the more productivity suffers, and your top performers are losing respect for you day after day. Top performers, the worst thing that you could do to them is have them clean up the mess from a low performer or from a cancer. And so you need to take action so you can make sure that you're protecting the rest of the team and protecting the respect of the people who you want to be there. The

The number one thing that dissuades people who are amazing from staying at your company is the way that you handle the people that shouldn't be at your company. They're gonna be like, seriously, sack up. You can't even get out the people who are fucking making our lives terrible. You can't get out the people who are making our lives miserable. And that's how they're gonna feel. And so listen, listen, listen. I understand there are cases where things might be complicated. Most of the situations are not like that. Most situations...

You want to get the person out as quickly as possible. Now, the question is, why do people wait so long? Okay. If those are the three steps, like identify it quickly, address it with the person and then take action quickly. Why is it that people wait so long? Okay. And I feel like this is the elephant in the room, which is like, okay, we all understand that it's kind of like the girl who she's been with like the toxic guy for, you know, like a year and like everyone sees that.

that they're in this like toxic, weird relationship where like both of them are mean to each other and they're like, dude, like you just both treat each other like shit, like just break up, right? But you're like, I don't know why they don't see it. I don't know why they're not doing it. It's the same kind of here where it's like, you can see it when you're not the person in the seat, but there's a reason that person is ignoring it or not admitting it or not looking at it. Typically, it starts with fear of confrontation.

It's not that they fear getting rid of the person. It's that they fear a three-minute conversation with the person. Seriously, and I think this is a good perspective for you guys.

A lot of times you have to let somebody go. It's not that you fear not having them. In fact, you very much fantasize about not having them. It's that you fear the five minute have to let them go conversation and the possible texts or calls or emails that you get thereafter. Or maybe they go talk shit about you. Maybe they take some customers, maybe whatever. That's what you fear. It's not the fact of not having them there. And so the reality is that most people don't like hard conversations, but avoiding them only makes things worse.

And ironically, if you avoid these hard conversations, you're likely going to have twice as much turnover with your best employees. So for me, what's very incentivizing is knowing that by avoiding that discomfort, I actually lose the people I want to stay.

Now, I also just say this, fear of confrontation is completely normal. It makes sense that you don't want to tell people because oftentimes the people that need to hear it the most, this is a tactic. Like they are mean, they do gossip, they do act hostile, right? They do act cancerous because they also know that typically they don't get fired because we don't want to talk to them. It's a tactic. So don't let them work that tactic on you.

Now, the second reason why people wait so long is that they're overly optimistic. Okay. And this is, you know, I will say that if anything, I sit in this bucket. So I will say I am, I self-diagnose myself as like overly optimistic about people's potential. Like I will hold on too long. I will have the hope that maybe they're going to turn it around.

Here's the thing. When I read this stat, I was like, fuck, fuck me. Okay, only 4% of toxic or cancerous or sabotaging, whatever word you want to use, employees improve without direct intervention. What does that mean? It's far better to act on what's happening right now when it's small than it is to wait for a miracle. And of those people that have an intervention, only 4%,

12% of them, if they are considered sabotaging, actually end up staying. So guys, like, I know that we all want to see the best in people and I get it. Like, I always am like, they can do it. Yeah, they can, but are they going to? They can, but do you have the time to wait? They can, but how much trust have they lost with the team? And so it's not about, can this person turn it around? How long can you wait for them to turn it around? And will the rest of your stars leave in the meantime?

And that is the cold, hard reality is that most of the time you don't have time to wait for them to fix it because your team will leave. That's it. It's not about them. It's like, hey, I know you could fix it, but it's probably gonna take a year. And I think you're gonna lose two or three good people in that year. And so it's not worth the trade. And so it's like in those situations, I know it sounds harsh, but it's like, guys, you have to protect your team. You have to protect the company. You have to protect the vision. You have to uphold the promises that you've made for people.

And if that means that you have to get rid of people because you know they can turn around in a year, but you don't have the time,

That's your duty to do as a leader of the company. And it sucks and it feels terrible sometimes because you're like, well, I know that they could be better. Everyone can be better. Put more attention on your top performers and stop putting so much to trying to save your low performers, which I think goes in the last piece, which is ego and self-doubt, right? Some people see it like when you fire somebody, it's like admitting they made a bad hire.

Okay, and I will tell you this one, even me who like I talk a ton about hiring, I talk a ton about, of course, I make bad hires. Of course, I hire the wrong people sometimes. Sometimes I've got my rose colored glasses on. Sometimes I was just like having a day when I interviewed the person. Sometimes I was just so busy. I wasn't like really digging in and thinking through all the different things. So every leader hires the wrong person at some point. The test is how quickly are you willing to fix it?

And when you do, your team is going to trust you, morale is going to go up, and you reestablish yourself as a leader who protects the culture. People aren't concerned if you hire the wrong person as long as you make a course correction. People are concerned if you have a history of hiring the wrong person and keeping them on the team. Do not let fear of confrontation, do not let overly optimistic thinking, and do not let your ego get in the way from protecting your team. Because I know it sounds...

Sounds crazy, but most companies die from the inside out. They die because we allow people, we allow cancer to spread, we allow it to grow, we allow it to sabotage the rest of the company. And so what I've really come to the conclusion of is that keeping cancerous teammates around is literally the most expensive mistake that you could make. They kill productivity, they destroy morale, and they push away your best people.

They make everything worse. But when you take action, everything can change. You will see a team that's more engaged, more productive. And honestly, they're just going to be happier all around. And guess what? So will you. Because you don't want people working for you who want to sabotage you. Like, it feels terrible to know that people that work for you literally want your company to do poorly. And you cannot grow a company with people trying to make it die.

What I'd ask you to do after listening to this podcast is if I know somebody's name came to mind for you, if you've got a business, I want you to address this now. I want you to know this week. I don't know what's going on. It doesn't matter. There's literally nothing that could be too important than addressing this because this is how you protect your culture. And if you protect your culture, you protect your company.