Dismantling Broken Money Beliefs | Ep 239
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You don't need permission to want to make more money. You don't need permission to talk about money. You don't need permission to want to be rich. You don't need permission to go all in on something. You don't need permission to be successful. If you're waiting for somebody to give you permission, if you're waiting for somebody to cheer you on, you are going to be waiting a long fucking time because everybody is focused on themselves. They're not focused on you.

What's up, guys? Welcome back to Build. And today I want to talk about something that I do not talk about too often, which is money. Specifically, I want to talk about women and money and why so many women hesitate to talk about money. So the reason I wanted to talk about this is because someone was asking me about

money. And the reality is, is that if you listen to my podcast, aside from seeing some of my like YouTube headlines, which make me cringe, I don't really like super talk about money. If I do, it's like, okay, I'm trying to make myself credible. Yeah, yeah, I made money selling my businesses, blah, blah, blah. I don't like having to do that. But also like,

I'm not Kim Kardashian. People don't know who I am to that degree yet. So I say things to build credibility so people understand why they can listen to me or trust what I'm saying. And often that measure is money. But if we rewind 12 years ago, I did not like talking about money. In fact, I didn't think about money. And I didn't think about money.

And so much so that I actually think it was not very well balanced. So 12 years ago, I was focused on helping people. I was focused on adding value. And I would literally do anything to help my clients succeed.

But when I say anything, I mean, like, it was too much. I was undercharging. I was overworking. And I was overcommitting for what people were paying me. And so it was actually an inequitable exchange. Like, we were out of exchange with one another because they were paying me so little and I was just giving them so much.

And so when I got into business with my partner, Alex, that was when I really realized like, you know, because he was very focused on money. But I was like, well, I can take, you know, 50% or 40% of his focus on money and combine it with my focus on helping people. And I feel like that's like the best of both worlds. And I feel like I've come to this really good spot in my life now where I see money and helping people as like one in the same, which is, I'll tell you my frameworks on this.

One, I see it as I don't want to make money unless it's what I call quality money. Okay, when I talk about quality money, it's money that's made in a way that makes me feel good. It's money that's made in a way that's made the world better. It's money that's made in a way that's made my employees' lives better, my clients' lives better, my portfolio companies better. And so

And so I call that quality money. My team hears me say, I'll say quality revenue, quality profit, because I'm like, man, look at our profit margin. Like this is quality profit because I'm still paying people really well. And yet look at our profit. That's the first thing. It's just understanding that now I really look at money as like there's quality money and there's not quality money. For example, like I don't want to associate with people who make low quality money, meaning like, uh,

Uh, they have a shitty business that, you know, doesn't value their clients. They treat their employees like shit and underpay them. Uh, they sell something that's not really that good. Like those kinds of things I would say is like low quality money, right? The second framework that I really have around how I see money now is I really see making more money as my, uh,

measurement of the value that I'm creating in the world. When I look at a lot of the richest people in the world, the reason that they have so much money is they've created so much value. Now, maybe that value is very controversial for sure, but it is irrefutable. It is representative of the value. And so that's the second frame that I've really shifted into. And I think the third one is that there's nothing wrong with

wanting to have some money and wanting to spend money. I think that in the very early days of business and probably, gosh, the first four years that I was making very good money, I didn't wanna spend it because I felt like it made me a bad person to spend any amount of money on myself. What I really wanted to do today in this podcast is talk about

you know, why do women struggle to talk about money? Why do they get more hate for making money than men do? And what does it take to actually, you know, build wealth without feeling guilt, without feeling shame and without feeling like there's something wrong with you making more money? And again, like this is not something I talk about a ton because I,

I'll just be completely transparent. I think talking about money brings the kind of people into my audience that are not for me. Because if I talk too much about money, you just get people who only care about money. They don't care about leadership. They don't care about creating value. They don't care about creating great products. And so it's intentional why I don't focus on it. It's intentional why I don't focus on with my team. I just like, I want people who want to be excellent rather than want to make money. And money is a byproduct of excellence.

That being said, I think it's helpful to talk about this sometimes. And when I see it, and I see it like running rampant in different areas that I'm interacting with right now, it's something that I want to speak to. So I want to dismantle some of the beliefs that I have seen around money and explain how we can get better at this. The first thing that I have noticed in understanding money around women is that there is a gender gap in money mindset. Okay. And let me explain this.

What I've noticed is that a lot of men play to win and a lot of women play not to lose. Okay, so here's an interesting stat for you guys. 86% of women say they feel uncomfortable talking about money even with their own friends. Men apply for jobs when they meet 60% of the qualifications while women wait until they meet 100% of the qualifications. So you see what the problem is, is that women tend to hesitate.

They overthink. They worry what people will say. They worry that they're not good enough, right? Meanwhile, a lot of men are okay competing. They're okay pushing the limits. They're okay not second guessing whether they deserve to win, but just fucking going for it.

And I think that a lot of this ties into the fact that men are valued on success much more than women, right? And men are taught that making money, this is their duty, while women are taught that making money is optional. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that because, again, if you don't care about making money, then stop listening to the podcast. But if you want to make money, it's good to recognize these things and understand, okay, how would I shift my behavior so that I can

play the game to win and not to lose, right? And I think that the fundamental switch that has to happen here is, and why I think it's so important is playing any game from a place of trying not to lose is very disempowering. It's like, okay, I just don't want to fuck up. I just don't want to lose. I just don't want to ruin this. I just don't want to lose what I have. That's like a very disempowering place to play anything from, like making money, making a business, like doing anything.

And so what I observed about myself over the years is that when I first got in the business, I was definitely playing not to lose. I wasn't playing to win. And as I observed some of my mentors who were men and some people that had built really amazing businesses who, again, were men that I looked up to, I realized that they were okay failing. They were okay being...

being bad at something, they were okay not being perfect. I really admire that about men. I admire the fact that so many men are so less self-conscious than women and they're so comfortable being themselves and comfortable putting themselves out there and

Yes, I'm sure it's tied to all these societal norms, but I also think that that's something that's really admirable and I would love to be able to have that myself. And so I've made a very intentional effort over the years of like, how do I become okay with that, right? Part of how I've done that for myself, for example, is like when I make content, I try to be unfiltered. I try to do the document. I try to like put out shit that I don't like. I try to put out shit that's unfiltered that I'm like a little nervous about because I'm like, fuck.

I don't really like seem all put together there. I don't look amazing there. Or like, this is something I don't really feel comfortable sharing. But like, I don't want to reinforce this idea that I have to be perfect and I have to win 10 out of 10 times. I want to reinforce the idea that it's okay to lose. It's okay not to be perfect. And I can fucking go for it anyways.

And I think a lot more women would be a lot further in their careers or in their businesses if they let go of this perfectionist mentality, which is causing them to play not to lose and instead focused on being imperfect. Because if you're imperfect, you're probably gonna win faster. And if there's any lesson I've learned about business and by consequence making money, it's that imperfection beats perfection any day. And especially when it comes to speed and getting something off the ground, you can make it perfect later.

It's okay to be imperfect in the beginning. Now, the second thing that I've seen with women and I've experienced myself is that there is a bit of a, and it's changed as of recently, but I think there's still, at least with myself, there's like a stigma around, like there's like a social penalty, a social penalty for women around wealth, okay? What does that mean? It means that when women make a lot of money, there are ways that they are punished for making a lot of money. I remember reading this study one time. It was from, I think it was Columbia Business School. It was something like,

Women are two times more likely than men to be described as unlikable in a professional setting when they are considered successful or wealthy. You know, I think a lot of that is because society expects women to be very modest, very humble, very reserved. And so the moment that a woman says, like, I want to make hundreds of millions of dollars, I want to make billions, you know, you're labeled as greedy or untrustworthy or arrogant or something like that, right? Yeah.

Whereas I think often when men talk about their net worth in that regard, it's considered to be ambitious. Here's the truth.

If you let other people's opinions of you and other people's judgments of you determine your income, then you're never going to have enough to build the life you want anyways. One thing that I have had to learn over the years, and it's been a big shift for me, is just like, honestly, fuck what anybody else thinks. All that matters is what I think. Do I recognize that there are ways in which like being a successful woman or being a woman who has a lot of money gets quote punished?

Yes. There's also ways in which like men get punished that are, you know, different and in other areas. So like, again, this is not about equitability or equity in general. This is just about like things I have observed myself. And what I've seen is that

A lot of women, the reason that they're not able to make more money is not because they are incompetent. It's not because they're unintelligent. It's because of this desire to be liked, this desire to not be judged, this desire to fit in.

And I get it because I felt that way. And then I made a lot of money when nobody knew who I was. And then people found out who I was. And then a lot of people didn't like me. And then I was like, well, fuck it. I can't really do anything about this anyways. Like I tried to hide it. I didn't wear fancy clothes. I didn't have a fancy car. I didn't do any of that shit. And here we are. People didn't like me anyways. And it was really freeing for me to realize that

Whether I try to hide something or not, whether I am acting as myself or not, like people are gonna find something to judge. And I would rather be judged for who I am and the things I really want than be judged for something else.

And so is there a way, is it true that a lot of women feel that they get punished to a degree for making money? I do think that women who are very ambitious can come off, and I've heard it many times, as being demanding or unlikable or harsh, yes. But I also think that there's nothing wrong with that. And people are entitled to their own opinions. And it's okay if some people think that about you. Right?

I think it's just something I've realized for myself, which is like, I've just made peace with it. I don't try to change it. I don't try to change other people's opinions. I'm just like, cool, if you want to think that about me, that's fine. Maybe I am a little harsh. Maybe I am like a little direct at times, and I'm okay with it. And I do recognize that's because of social conditioning and social norms. And I'm also okay with that. You know what I mean? Like, that's just how it is. I think I've just realized over time that

if I want to achieve my goals and if I want to build this life that I want and that nobody else knows what that vision looks like, right? Then I have to be okay with people judging me for it. Does that mean that I'm gonna get penalized for achieving my goals? I think everybody does to a degree, right? Because whether you're a woman or a man, like I think a lot of people get rocks thrown at them for being successful, but I think like you just gotta develop thick fucking skin. And I think a lot of women, you do have to develop even thicker skin to a degree because you're,

There is a little bit of a stigma sometimes around being direct, being harsh. It's all these things that make you a good leader to a degree, right? I'm not saying harsh, but like,

people might call direct harsh, but it's going to get you where you want to go. At some point, you just have to say like, I'm okay with other people judging me. I'm okay with other people not liking me. I'm okay with being misunderstood. And I'm just going to go forward anyways. Now, I just want to address some of the beliefs that I hear from a lot of women when they're talking about money, because I think that it's important to address like, what is it that people are saying to themselves, right? And I wrote down a couple that I heard a

at one of the recent workshops that I had, and I wanted to share them here, okay? So one, I don't want people to think I'm greedy. I don't want my success to make people uncomfortable. If I make more money, I'll have less time for my family. Here's the thing. Let me tell you what my perspective of each of those is, okay? So I don't want people to think I'm greedy. Money, making money doesn't make you greedy.

Making money gives you options. It gives you freedom. It gives you power. It gives you the ability to share that money and share that success and share all that with other people.

So you can actually be much less greedy when you make money than you are when you have less money. Because when you have less money, you want to keep it all to yourself. When you have more money, it gives you more freedom to give it and help other people. I don't want my success to make people uncomfortable, okay? You are not responsible for how people feel about your success. If they are uncomfortable, that is their problem. That is not your problem. If they judge you, that's on them. That's not on you. If they don't like you, it's great. Nobody needs to like you. Let them not like you. Who cares?

If I make more money, I'll have less time for my family. Man, this one I hear all the time. Okay, money doesn't take time away from your family.

it gives you more time with them because guess what you can do with the money? You can hire help, you can buy back your time, and you can design a life where you're not drowning in work, drowning in stress, taking care of all these little minutiae things. Instead, you can buy back your time so that you can create a life where you get to spend more time with your family. It's just a matter of recognizing you have control over that and that you don't need to play by the same rules somebody else does.

If I wanted to right now have kids, I could hire so much help that I could hire a CEO of acquisition.com. I could hire a nanny. I could hire somebody to clean my house. I could hire all these things so that the only thing that I do is be with my family in the most important moments. I could do that if I wanted to. So those are the most common beliefs that I hear. And I want to talk about how we can shift, not just in each of those beliefs, but shift our mindset around money, especially as women. So how can we shift money?

our mindset around money. Okay. The first one is just stop looking for permission. Okay. I remember one of the best conversations I had with my now husband was when, you know, I said something to the degree of like, I want to make more money. And he was like, do you need permission? And I was like, what? He was like, you don't, if you need permission, here you go, go make more money. And it was so funny because it was like just a little conversation at the kitchen counter. But I was like, fuck, I think I was waiting for permission. Right.

And then I was like, that's so stupid. I can't believe that I'm in a way feel like I need permission to go do what I want to fucking do with my life, right? And so the first thing is like, you don't need permission to want to make more money. You don't need permission to talk about money. You don't need permission to want to be rich. You don't need permission to go all in on something. You don't need permission to be successful. If you're waiting for somebody to give you permission, if you're waiting for somebody

If you're waiting for somebody to cheer you on, you are going to be waiting a long fucking time, okay? Because everybody is focused on themselves. They're not focused on you. And so stop waiting for permission to be the person you want to fucking be. If you want to go make money, go make fucking money. The second thing is that we want to start competing. I know this sounds interesting because I am not a competitive person with others, but I am with myself, okay?

What I talked about earlier is like men are okay with competition. They celebrate competition. Whereas women try to tear each other down. They look at competition as a bad thing. What we want to do is we want to stop apologizing for winning, apologizing for competing. We want to start celebrating it. And if we want to win, we need to start playing to win. And what does that mean? It means charge what you're fucking worth. Stop undercharging, right? Stop undercharging.

overworking for people when you do not have an equitable relationship and start pushing past the fear and doing it anyways. A lot of women that I talk to is in fact an immense amount. The only reason that their businesses are not as big as they could be is because of these things.

They're not charging what they're worth for their services or their product, or they're over delivering based on what they're having the person pay, or they're just scared. They're scared of judgment. They're scared of what it's going to mean. They're scared of what it's going to mean for them in society. And let me tell you guys, like, I'm here. I'm here now. I'm in that position that you could be scared of. And like, it's not bad. Like, yes, do people judge me? For sure. But like, honestly, I would rather be judged for who I am than live a life where I'm in prison to other people's opinions every day.

That sounds terrible. And the last thing that I would encourage women to do is build a bigger vision. Okay, I think a lot of the times what I've seen when I talk to, I mean, I talked to gosh, I don't even know how many founders a week right now, women have conditioned themselves in many ways to think small, okay, to aim for being comfortable and fitting in this box and not being judged and not being disliked, rather than thinking bigger.

The thing is, is that I think a lot of women say that they want to make an impact. Well, the bigger your vision, the bigger impact. And here's the thing, the more wealth that you can create, the more freedom that you have to create and make that vision come to life. And then the more success you build, the more opportunities you open, not just for yourself, but for your family, for your clients, for your team. We don't need more people playing small.

We need more people playing big, taking up space, charging what you're worth, making money, building things that fucking matter and do good for this world. And there are so many women that have amazing ideas, amazing businesses and amazing things to offer and they're just not doing that.

My final thoughts are this, okay? You have every right to make money. You have every right to win. You have every right to charge what you're worth. You have every right to feel scared and do it anyways. You have every right to be judged as well because people are entitled to their opinions. And you have every right to take up space.

And so in order to collect those rights, you have to be willing to make bold, unapologetic moves, to stop apologizing for your ambition and to start pushing past the fear and just do it anyways. Because the thing is, is that making money and becoming successful is a choice. It's just that most people, many people and many women are not brave enough to make it