Don't Outsource Recruiting Your Top Leaders, Here's Why | Ep 258
19:54 Share

The question is, if you are the best recruiter for your company, if you are the best interviewer in your company, and you can protect the company from wasting that much money and foregoing that much productivity, right? Why not make it something you're focused on? And so if you're wondering why you feel stuck dealing with underperformance or turnover, it's probably because you didn't take recruiting seriously enough. It's probably because you're not involved enough in recruiting.

What's up, guys? Welcome back to Build. And today I want to talk about a topic that has been on my mind all week, and that is recruiting top talent as the CEO or founder of your company. This is a topic that I actually don't think I've touched on in quite some time. And I think the reason I hadn't touched on it is because I was just busy doing it. And I

Recently, I have gotten way back into recruiting. And the reason for that is because in Q4, I said, okay, I need to back off. Like, I don't have time to do many other things because we're recruiting so many roles every quarter. And so I really need to only be involved in roles that are, you know, X level or above. And, you know, these departments, it's okay. And historically, I'm typically involved in more than that.

But I said, you know, I just don't know how to balance it all. And that was just the truth. I was just like, I don't know how to do all of it. And that didn't result in what I wanted. It didn't result in what I wanted. And I was having a conversation with one of my very close friends last night, who's also CEO of a very large company, much bigger than my company. And I was saying, like, how do I do all of these things? How do I have this many one-on-ones a week? How do I run this many meetings? How do I make this many speeches? How do I write this many decks? How do I do all of it?

And you said, Layla, you know, the one thing I've learned is that you can't outsource this part. It's your magic. And it really stuck with me because when we were talking about it, it's almost like everybody on your team, they're like, you shouldn't be involved in this much. Like we can't, we're going to save your time. We're going to do this. And so your team's always looking to take things away from you, at least if they're a great team, right? They're looking to make your life easier.

And so it's difficult because sometimes you're like, I don't know, should I believe them? Should I not? And a lot of times, especially if we're really busy, we kind of believe them more than we should, right? We're like, yeah, I want to believe this person that I shouldn't be involved in these things because that's a lot of time and I don't have a lot of time. I'm already pretty maxed out. You know, reaching out to a friend and I reached out to another friend as well. It was really great to have these conversations to remind me of why what I used to do worked so well. And the reality is, is that

Most people do this wrong. And I am now paying for that, right? Because for one quarter, I did it wrong. I treated it like an afterthought. I didn't treat it like it was my number one priority. And the reality is, is that hiring the right people is literally the highest leverage thing that you can do to build your company, right? Because if you prevent problems from even starting,

right, and you get in the right people to your company, then you don't have to deal with firing people, laying people off, wrong culture fits, bad culture, conflict, all those things.

because you prevent it on the front end. I have been painfully reminded of that myself over the last couple of weeks. And I've just recognized that this is one of those things that I can't outsource. And even if that means, because my company is hiring so many roles right now, 30 some roles this quarter, we hired 27 roles last, I believe. It doesn't mean I should outsource. It means I should outsource other things. And so what I did is I looked at my calendar and I said, okay,

What am I going to do? What am I going to get rid of? What am I not going to do? Because I need to focus all in on this. And this is the most important thing right now. Because if I can get the right people into my team to relieve my teammates, there's nothing better I can do for this company. And so I sent a message to my team last night. I said, I'm going to be involved in hiring for every role here going forward. And I will figure my schedule out. Don't worry about it. And the reason that I know this is so important is because one, I've done it in the past. It works very well.

Two, there's one thing that I've just found is very difficult for anybody that's not the founder or the CEO of the company to do, which is when I'm looking to hire somebody, I'm hiring from the future. I'm hiring from where we're going. And then I'm reverse engineering if this person fits into that vision. And the skills that they have, even if it's not a 10 out of 10 fit today, is it going to really help me get towards that vision we have tomorrow?

And will those skills be more useful to have sooner rather than later? Not to mention looking at their goals for themselves and looking at the goals of the company and seeing if they have a future fit. A future fit is like their future fits within the future of the company. And that is something that I have talked to people about. I have trained people on. But it's very difficult to do if you're not constantly thinking about where you're going.

And I'm constantly thinking about where the company is going. Therefore, it's a lot easier for me to see this. I would say that the second reason it's difficult to completely outsource hiring of your company. A lot of people will meet great talent, but it's not the right time. But the reality is, is that great talent rarely comes at the perfect time because great talent usually doesn't come and apply for your company. Usually it's a coincidental meeting.

It's an introduction from a friend. The recruiter reached out to them and it's like, holy crap, this person is a 10 out of 10. Whatever it might be, it's not usually the exact time you need the person. And so what happens is if you have your team looking at that, they're thinking, well, that's not one of the roles we're looking for and so I'm going to have to pass. Whereas if the founder's more involved in recruiting, in finding great people, they look at that and they're like, we will find a spot for this person because I know that they're going to be useful and really smart, really hungry people are going to help us get towards our goal faster. There's just no way around it.

I can think of the people that were amazing, very talented that I passed up on because I said, well, I just don't have a role for them. And I deeply regret it because I didn't have a role for them then, but it didn't mean that three months later I didn't. And it didn't mean that they couldn't have added value in another way if I had brought them on the team. And the times when I have done that...

it has worked out much better. It has always worked out in my favor. Not to mention, there's a downside if we don't recruit the right talent, right? Which is one bad hire can usually cost, it's anywhere between like 30 and 50% of that employee's salary. And that being said, top performers, so if we're focusing on hiring the best of the best, if you look at the numbers, I believe it's, I think it was Harvard Business that did a review on this. It's like they're eight to 10 times more productive than the average employee. The question is, if you are the best recruiter for your company, if you are the best recruiter

are the best interviewer in your company. And you can protect the company from wasting that much money and foregoing that much productivity, right? Why not make it something you're focused on? And so if you're wondering why you feel stuck dealing with underperformance or turnover, it's probably because you didn't take recruiting seriously enough. It's probably because you're not involved enough in recruiting. And so I want to walk you guys through the six principles that I use

and I think about, and I use as frameworks when I'm recruiting for top talent so that you can use them when you're doing the same. Okay, the first one is only hire a hell yes. Okay, I will say this as clearly as I can. One fantastic hire will be able to 10x a function. This is not a joke. One bad hire, on the other hand, can completely ruin a function.

And so the people that you bring in, they're either going to completely elevate the team or they're going to completely bring them down. There is rarely a middle ground because somebody who is neutral, they're just like okay in the corner, they still bring the A players down. And that's why you never want to settle when it comes to hiring. Because one, A players or top talent want other A players or top talent. And they'll get very disgruntled and frustrated if that's not who they're surrounded by.

Two, one bad hire doesn't just affect their role. It lowers the standard for the entire team, right? So then everybody sees this person and thinks, oh, that person's acceptable. Meaning, okay, I guess that's the standard. Maybe this guy I just interviewed is the standard too. Because they don't know. They just see that you have this one mediocre person. And then three, if you're not genuinely excited about somebody, if you don't genuinely look forward to talking to them, they should not be on your payroll, period.

If it's not a hell yes, it's a no. And I can tell you, there have been so many times where I have negotiated with myself. I've fooled myself and I've tricked myself into thinking that somebody is a hell yes when they're not. And it's usually because, why? I'm freaking desperate. And so you have to come from the frame of power. Like whoever holds the most power in the conversation, in the frame, is the one who's going to have the most leverage.

What does power mean in this instance? It means that you need them less than they need you. And I can't emphasize enough, this is where a lot of recruiters, for example, especially outside recruiters, go wrong. They're so busy trying to close a role. They're so busy trying to make sure it doesn't take too long to find the person. They're so busy trying to appease the hiring manager that they forget about this, that they just, they see them with rose-colored glasses and they think, you know what? This person can do the job like, yeah,

Yeah, I think they're a little bit of a, maybe they're like a five out of 10 on the culture. But you know what? I think maybe it's just the interview. Maybe they were nervous. Maybe excuses, excuses, excuses, right? And so you have to stick with, if it's not a hell yes, it's a hell no. Now, I want to give some caveats to that. It's tough if you are a public facing figure, CEO or founder, to interview people and know if they're a hell yes. Why? Because many people will be terrified and nervous.

And so you have to take certain things into consideration. Is the person incredibly nervous? What level of role is this? And you have to be able to factor those things in. And I think part of that is the art of interviewing, which is if you are just interrogating people, you're never going to find out if that person is a hell yes or not. The job of the person interviewing is to first make them feel comfortable so you can see who they really are. And so I will say, if I don't break somebody's barrier,

in the interview and really get to understand who they are and get them to be their authentic selves, I don't know if they're the right hire or not. I can't. I can't tell because it's a facade and it's difficult for anybody to see past a facade. And so all the bullshit around, oh, you need to interrogate them, see if they can take the pressure. What are you talking about? You're just going to see the worst version of someone's self. And like, maybe they're tough, sure. But what are they like the rest of the time? You're just not going to know. Now, the second piece is

is hire for hunger, not just skill. I don't want people who are just good at what they do. I want people who are obsessed with growth and hungry. I want people who love learning so much that they want to learn no matter what the price is, that that is their number one objective. And I can say with complete certainty, every single one of my best hires has been obsessed with growth. They've been obsessed with learning and they've been hungry.

It doesn't matter their age. It doesn't matter how much experience they have. It's hunger. And here's the thing. If you hire somebody who's just competent, they're just going to clock in and clock out. If you hire somebody who's obsessed and who's hungry, they're going to not just meet the standard. They're going to raise it. They're going to innovate and they're going to push everything and everybody forward. Now, why is this so important? You can train how to close a deal, how to make a bet, how to prepare a meal, how to whatever it is the person is doing in your business.

But you can't train hunger, can you? I know that's definitely harder for me than would be doing anything else. I could train somebody on how to analyze a business. I can train somebody on how to clean an office. I can train somebody on how to conduct an event. But train somebody on how to be hungry and motivated? Here's the thing. When people talk about hiring for skill fit versus culture fit, I think a lot of it's complete bullshit because here's the reality.

Culture is a skill. Culture is made up of much harder skills than the skills that it takes to do a job. Our traits, right? Our values at acquisition.com. Unimpeachable character, sincere candor, competitive greatness. Here's the thing. Those are skills.

Those are skills and they're much harder than knowing how to close a sales call, how to talk to an angry customer, how to write a report or run a meeting. Like if you have hunger, if you're obsessed with growth, if you have the values, everything else is 10 times easier. And yet companies get this backward. They think like, oh, you know, well, they've got the skill. Maybe they're not an amazing culture fit. Okay. How much harder is it to train somebody to be nice and

than it is to train somebody to talk to an angry customer. Do you even know how to train somebody to be nice?

I know I sure as hell don't. I'm like, I don't know. You're just really mean and I don't feel like talking to you. So I'd rather not hire you and find somebody who's nice and then train them up on this. And so you want to hire for hunger, not just skill. Hire people who love their work and love growth as much as you love your company. Okay, that doesn't mean they're going to love the company as much as you do, but it means that they love growth and that they love challenge. And those are the kind of people that you want in your company. That is what an A player acts like. Now, here's the third principle with recruiting.

Recruiting never stops. You never stop recruiting. You guys ever heard the term never stop selling? Here's the other term, never stop recruiting. Most people think about hiring when there's an open role and that is a mistake. And I can tell you, I have made this mistake before and I feel like I made it recently. And it is just, it's the worst thing you can do, right? Because the best people, they're not job hunting. They're already crushing it somewhere else.

And if you want them, you need to already have a relationship with them to get them to come to your company when there's an opportunity. You need to build relationships before you need them. It's kind of like the thing about networking, like for business, right? A lot of people, a lot of people that probably listen to this, you go to networking events, you go to masterminds, you go to whatever. Why is that? Well, you're like, well, this relationship got me this. This relationship got me an introduction here. This relationship...

Okay, do you think that if you only reached out to them when you needed them, that you would be able to get that from them? Do you think that they'd be willing to help you? No. And so the same goes for top talent. What you want to do is continue to recruit even when you're fully staffed.

Because one, the right person is always worth making room for. And if you start hiring when you're desperate, you're already too late. Because not only are you going to have to incur the cost of the fact that you don't have somebody in the role, but every single day that goes by feels painful and you're desperate in the hiring process and you're more likely to make bad decisions. So what's the rule of thumb here? Recruiting is not a task. Recruiting is an art. Recruiting is an ongoing process. Recruiting is a way of doing business.

And it is one of the top things that a CEO or founder needs to focus on. Now, what could make that easier? Only thing that can make that easier is number four. Make the best candidates chase you. The best people don't want a job. They want the job. They want the job at your company. So if you want a players, you know how I talked about the frame? You have to flip the interview.

You don't just assess candidates. You sell them on why your company is the best place to work, on why your company is crushing it, on why this is the best opportunity that they have and why this is going to be great for them. I always say sell, don't tell. Okay, you sell them. You don't tell them about your company.

And this is missed in the process because a lot of the times people think, well, gosh, they should be selling me on their talent. Sure, but I haven't heard your sales pitch yet. Why do they even think they want the product? You haven't even told them what the offer is. And there's nobody that can do that better than the founder of the CEO because who believes in the company more than you? Every time I get on with a candidate, I do the same two things. First, I make sure that they understand the job. I ask them to repeat back what they think the job is. Then I do the next thing. I say, let me tell you a little bit about the company.

And then I go in to where the company's going, what the company's doing, the opportunity we have, how fast we're growing. Now, luckily, having a great company makes it an easy pitch. But, you know, even if you've got a bad company, I've seen people with a good pitch. And this is because, guys, the best talent isn't applying to jobs. They're getting recruited or they're seeking an opportunity. And if they're a high performer, they should lead the interview wanting to be a part of what you're building. If you've communicated it correctly.

The goal is that you want to make them feel like they're going to win big and win faster by joining you. Now, of course, there's a caveat here, which is don't lie and don't be a fucking unethical asshole, okay? I can say this shit because it's true and I eat my own dog food. Like, I'm over here busting my fucking ass making this company grow. That just is what it is, right? It's the truth. If you're not doing that, then this makes everything 10 times more hard, right? I know when I'm speaking to somebody and I'm selling them on my company, it's real conviction. It's not bullshit because I am excited about the company. I'm excited about the company.

I am making it grow. It is breaking records. I don't have to make anything up. That makes everything easier. Never lie. Never deceive somebody. But sell them on the opportunity. Tell them where you're going. Tell them what the vision is. Nobody's going to do that better than you. Now, what does that bring me to when we're talking about the vision? It's the fifth principle, which is that you want to hire for the future, not just today. You don't want to just hire to fill a gap.

You want to hire to propel growth. Really think about that. There's filling a gap and then there's hiring to propel growth. I tell my team this all the time. You can't grow if you don't have bandwidth. You can't grow if you don't have space. You guys see this? It happens in nature all the time. You put a flower in a box, the flower only grows to the size of the box. And so if you're only hiring people to fill gaps and plug issues...

then you're not going to be able to fulfill the vision that you have. So how do you know that you get somebody on your team who's going to help you grow into that vision? First question I ask myself, how would I feel if I had 10 more of this person on my team? Because people multiply themselves. And so you have to ask, will my company be better or worse with more people like this on my team?

Do I think I'd make more money or less money? Do I think I'd get to my vision faster or slower? Do I think I'd have people better culture fits or worse culture fits? If you wouldn't want to work with them and tend more of them in the long term, don't hire them in the short term. Because this is what happens. You bring one person in, they will multiply themselves. They will find a way. I promise you. But a lot of people don't think about this. They think, well, they're just filling this seat. Nope.

Are they going to help you get where you need to go? And if you had 10 more of them, would those people help? Which brings me to the sixth principle. You want to build a championship team, not a roster. The best CEOs and the best founders, they don't just hire for roles. They hire for greatness. If you meet

Somebody who's a fucking killer. You find a way to bring them in, even if it doesn't fit in the box, even if it doesn't fit with the comp, even if it doesn't make sense today exactly. The best founders don't just fill jobs. They build a winning team. This is your goal, to build a winning team.

I understand that you have a list of 10 or 15 jobs, but that doesn't matter. If you think this person can help your team win bigger and better and faster, then bring them onto the team. Because if you're only hiring based on what you have right now, what you need right now, you are missing out on people who will help you win the championship. And I wish I knew this years ago because it would have made my last company so much easier, but I didn't understand this.

And I regret it deeply because that is the biggest cheat code. If you find an A player, you make room for them on the team. You ask yourself, is this person being on the team going to help me achieve my goals? Do I think that the likelihood of us reaching our goals as a business will increase or decrease with bringing this person on the team? That's the question. And if you're like, dude, they would, I mean, I feel like two times more likely to hit my goals at this point. Then what are you doing?

What are we doing here? Let's make it work. Let's find a way. And so I'm here to remind you of this. There are no rules.

There are principles, but use critical thinking. If you think this person will make it more likely that your business succeeds, find a way to get that person on your team. Fuck what everybody else thinks. Fuck what they say. There are no rules. Give yourself permission to operate outside of the lines. We all think in these little boxes of, I need these roles, and I'll check this off, and I got to get this. It doesn't work like that. And you're going to be wrong about half these fucking roles anyways. And so you might as well bring the best people in when you have a shot.

If you get this right, you are not going to have to micromanage. You won't have to drag people along. You're not going to be resolving so much conflict. You're not going to be terminating so many people. Instead, your company is going to scale faster. It's going to operate better and you're going to attract more talent because you've created a self-fulfilling prophecy. Once it gains momentum because you've hired enough of the right people, it doesn't stop. And if you do this, you won't just build a company. You will build a winning team.