How Heidi Somers Built a $100M Business From Her Living Room | Ep 260
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What's up, guys? Welcome back to Build. Today, we have a special guest who is a powerhouse in the fitness industry. In fact, I think that the first time that I heard of her was 2016. So it's when she first came on the rise in the fitness industry. She started as a fitness influencer. She built a super loyal following and then has turned that into a nine-figure empire. And so I wanted to go and figure out what are the brains behind this empire that she has built. You may know her as Heidi Summers. This is the Buff Bunny Collection, as well as her app called Grounds.

Her goal with the Buff Bunny Collection is to empower women to make them feel comfortable. Behind the brand, it's clear that she has some very strong values around resilience, women's empowerment, risk-taking. And I think what's really cool about this conversation is that in all the questions that I asked her,

It became very clear that the reason that she's so successful is because she's so connected with the customer and she so believes the mission that she preaches. And so I really hope that you enjoy this conversation goes through everything from how she started the companies to wearing all the hats to hiring employees to how do you deal with trauma to how do you stay married to somebody who has their own other business. And so I hope you enjoy.

You know, you started Buff Buddy in your living room and you did like everything. You wore all the hats. And so what I was wondering is like looking back, were the top most important lessons that got you from working in your living room, wearing all the hats to the big empire that you've built now? My background is biology. It is not marketing. It is not fashion. It is not education.

business or anything of the sort. My background is biology, science and that aspect. So starting a business, I really had to learn marketing, customer service. I had to learn how to lead, how to hire, how to sell online, how to run a Dymo label, everything, everything from scratch. So I think if I were to

I'd say one thing that helped me the most is probably Google. I love that. So I knew nothing about the industry. I just knew that myself, as someone that has walked into the gym for the first time, and I really struggled with feeling comfortable and feeling lost at the time, that I wish I would have had an outfit that made me feel comfortable.

powerful at the moment so that's kind of what drove me to do it yeah and I knew in order to do that you know whatever I do I do with all they might like I don't get corners or anything so I had to learn every aspect of the business and I do owe that to Google we had chat GBT back then I would I would been on another level right it's like that would have been so easy so did you have any mentors in the beginning or any way that you could talk to or did you just have to wing it I

I really just winged a lot of what I did back in the day. I like to say that I created a wonderful product that I'm proud of. Yeah. And one of the very first things I wanted to do is I sought on to create a pink legging. I'm very girly. I love to lift weights, but I thought there was just something so powerful about putting on a pink pair of leggings, going into the gym and being able to deadlift 200 pounds. Oh, yeah. So that is what I really focused on. It was like tunnel vision. Mm-hmm.

And, you know, learning that whole business coming from zero, you know, zero knowledge. I wish I had like four or five percent or something, but it took a lot. And in the beginning, did you you mentioned like you've hired friends and family and things like that. Like how has that evolved over time in terms of like how you find people to help you bring that vision to life? I would say I have a rule right now that I never hire friends and I never. Oh, no way.

Were there any experiences that led us to that? There was, yes, there was a few. Which is not a bad thing. It's just when you hire friends and family, it's a different type of respect and boundary where I'm so grateful for the friends that I had in the beginning because they really helped me so much. I would pay them with like Chipotle. I would pay them with, you know, food and snacks. I was like, come over, I'll buy you a drink later at the bar if you can help me pack these orders.

But it was such a wonderful time just being able to have all my friends over, pack orders. But I realized very quickly that, you know, especially if you give them a glass of champagne before you start packing orders, you're going to have a lot of errors, mess ups, inventory issues. But it's still some like fond memories to look back on. I'm so grateful that I had the support that I did with my friends. But now at this point, I've realized that when you do, if you hire someone who's a friend first, right?

It's really hard for them to shift that mentality where I'm really good at being able to be like, right now I'm your friend. And right now I'm the owner. Like putting one hat on versus another. So I'm really good at being able to shift those things. But I realize that some people aren't. You know, they get their feelings hurt very easily. They struggle with constructive criticism if they're a friend first. Yeah. So...

Now I have this boundary to where I really try not to hire any friends or family because I want to cherish that friendship and that family member on a different level. However, as you work with team members, I do get close with them. How could I not? I would say when I got married, I had quite a few of my employees at my wedding because I was like, these are the people that I love and I work with very often. Yeah.

So I feel like you have a little bit of crossover. Yeah, 100%. I think it's funny because people are like, where do I draw the line? And it is

especially when you're mission driven and it's what you do all day, every day, and you put your heart and soul into it. It's like, well, of course you become friends with the people because, you know, I've, I've said about that before, which is like some of my closest friends are the people that I work with because we get put in situations, more hardships than I do with my friends outside of work. Right. And it's like when you're in a pickle and something happens or this breaks or that, and you have to figure it out together, you,

you bond more than you do with your friends outside of work where you just go to dinner or lunch or movies and weekends. You know what I mean? Yes. Yeah, that's really, that's really a good point. Did you have any times where you had to like, because I know for myself, I can think of, you know, I brought a few friends in and then I had to let them go. Did you ever have to do that? Or was it just like a mutual parting of ways? I think most of the friends that I hired were always more of subcontractors, never full-time employees. I learned quickly that, you know,

Smart. Some subcontracting was kind of my way to test the waters to see if this would be a good fit. And I was like, this is not a good fit. Yeah. And I realized that I didn't want to full time hire any friends or family just because I wanted to protect those relationships. Well, that was smart. And I've had times where I've had family members and friends, mostly friends. I'd be like, I want to work at your company. I have one friend. She is amazing. Oh, my gosh. She's the most brilliant mom.

minded person I know but I was like you are so brilliant in the engineering side of things I don't have a place for you I can't really utilize your brilliance in my company right so you should stay where you're at or find something else that makes you passionate about it do you do that for a lot of people in your company

Like, are you constantly looking at, like, what are you best at and are you in the right seat? Yes. Because sometimes you'll look at an employee and be like, you are way too brilliant. I love the word brilliant. Yeah. Like, you are way too brilliant to be where you're at. And there's been a few times where we have moved up people and sometimes they're happy where they're at, but you can see their drive. And so we'll approach them and be like, you need...

You need a managerial position or sometimes even a director position over time. That's always fun. Yeah, that is fun. Giving people new opportunities. I love that. Something I want to ask you is I know that you're fairly involved in the operations of the company. How have you evolved as a leader? Because I think, you know, there's the external of what people see happens, but then there's the internal. Like, how have you had to change things?

to recognize the company, to get to the potential that it has now? From going from biology in the living room to now a nine-figure company, like what's changed most with you? Growing up, I was always a bit of a people pleaser and I love people.

And my love language is acts of service. So I love being able to do things for people. Yeah. And as a leader, I think earlier on before I had my own companies, I would not get walked on, but a little bit, right? Like I'd be like, oh, that's okay. I'd let things slide. Yeah. But one thing that I've changed drastically as a person is as soon as you start a company, you realize that it can be a, what's the term? Dog eat dog world where people, everyone has to take advantage of you. Yeah.

And there was a few instances earlier on where I realized, I was like, okay, I don't have an investor. This is my money I'm putting in. And so I was extremely protective of the inventory I was purchasing and making sure that it was nothing but a masterpiece, as I like to say. So I was very careful how I would spend my money and making sure that it helped the brand. So there was a few instances where I just really had to put my foot down and I was scared. But...

I live by this term. I always say I do it with shaking hands, right? So as scared as I was to be in this one room, there was like, I don't know, 15 different people in there. It was me and my part-time assistant at the time. And I was like, I will not be purchasing this inventory because my customers deserve better. And this wasn't what was approved. I mean, they tried every single way to try to get me to purchase this inventory that they had made incorrectly. And I was like, I won't do it. And I remember leaving that

room and I was like I was so proud of myself in the moment my part-time assistant was basically shaking she was like I could have never done that on my own and now she's like crushing it she's no longer my assistant anymore but she has her own business now and she's absolutely crushing it right now and I couldn't be more proud of her so it's like

It's like those instances that you work through together. And it was just baby steps at the time. I think it was before I even launched the company. But learning lessons like that really helped you be able to like set boundaries and really just making sure that you're not taken advantage of in the business world. What do you think brought you the awareness of that? Was it just the fact that you really wanted to build an amazing company or was it something else that told you that that was something you need to learn?

I don't think anything really transpired to make me think that way. But everything that I do, I always think about like the community of women that I've built over time on social media. And oh gosh, what's a Spider-Man quote?

With great power comes great responsibility. I love Spider-Man growing up. Same. I think when you build a social media presence, you should be so careful like what you put out online. Not careful to the point where you're changing who you are as a person. But I think that if you have people who trust in you, really making sure that whatever you put out there, whether you're doing a product review or you're building your brand, you should do it with excellence and confidence.

I think when, you know, rather it was like it was a T-shirt that I was screen printing on and I said no to or a legging that I'm creating from the ground up. I always think when this gets in the hands of a customer, will she be so proud to wear this? Or could we have done it differently to make her feel more empowered along the way? Everything I do, I think with that mindset and I think that's really helped me be able to put my foot down. And I just think like the girls are better. Yeah.

I love that. That's really admirable. Thank you. You know, as you're saying that, I was wondering, like, how does being the one that's running the company and also being the face, because you started doing essentially both from the beginning. How has your time, like, has that been...

a conflict for you? I guess I have a lot of questions about it. Has it been a conflict for you? Oh, gosh, absolutely. Especially because my husband always also owns multiple businesses. So I mean, there was times where I mean, we'd be working 12, 18 hour days all the time and barely sleeping.

But we loved what we did. Even now, like I love what I do and I get so excited to wake up every day and I'm like, what are we working on today? You know, and of course I have my agenda meetings, but if I have a meeting canceled, I'm like, what can I dive into? Like what can I dive into that I haven't dived into lately for different departments? But I think one thing that I've learned over time is I don't want to micromanage my team. It's like sometimes I'll see them doing something

And I like to give them guidance, but I don't ever like to tell them exactly what to do. You know, whether they mess up a little bit, they learn. So I had to learn that over time. That was hard, especially because, you know, I'm like, I know what they should do, but I want to get them to learn because social media brands, it's a newer thing. Yeah. And being able to find people that understand and.

and know what to do, especially because you have so many little PR moments. You know, you can have big ones, you can have small ones, and knowing how to navigate through that as well. At one point, I was creative director, marketing director, CEO. I was like head of product. I did a lot of operations, although I am the CEO and I do a lot of operations, but I would say I'm more on the creative side of things. I have an amazing COO who was like, Heidi, I'm the brains, I'm the logistics. You be the creative and creative.

But a lot of putting out fires and being able to do operations, there's a lot of creative in that as well. So we work really well together. That's amazing. How is your time split right now between like building the brand and being, you know, the main face of the business versus being CEO? And how do you, what do you enjoy most about both? Great question. So my...

Weeks are definitely don't see my calendar. I'm sure yours is crazy, too. Yeah. The way that I kind of lay out my week is Tuesday is my product day. So I'm in the design room for minimum eight hours. So then I usually go home. I get in a workout and then I will kind of digest and process everything that we kind of went over.

So I could go through the whole day a week going through the product. Exactly. Yes. I'd want people to hear that because how many people do you think actually do that? Not many. Not many. No. So many people. And this is, that's so important because like that right there, when you said that, I'm just like, that's why your brand is ahead because so many people, they're just, they would fill that time with marketing or being the brand, but you're filling it, making sure that you're staying ahead with the product. That's really cool. Thank you.

Thank you. I think it's so important because it starts with your product. You know, it's like you can't out market a bad product. You can. I know some people have done it, but it's not a long lasting company or business. And so I spend one day a week fully focused on product. I turn off my phone. I tell my assistant, I was like, you can come in if it's urgent, if you need me. But I really want to focus on how to make this glute seem perfect or perfect.

create a sports bra for a CrossFitter who's going to be doing all these different movements. And I really need to be able to focus on those. Then my Mondays meetings are usually split between Grounds, which is my fitness app, and then Buff Money Collection. And those I do leave, I would say about three to four hours in those days in order to take urgent meetings if needed. And those are my meetings that I have with my personal branding team, Grounds and Buff Money Collection. Wednesday, I try to keep just for Buff Money Collection meetings.

And then Thursday and Friday, I don't take meetings unless it's urgent. So I keep those two days fully open for content. So if I need to film content, I'm like, great, I have two days dedicated to it. And for a while, I was really great at it. And then all these urgent meetings kept coming up and I would have to put my foot down and say, is this actually urgent or can't wait until Monday? And so creating those boundaries really helped. I mean, that's pretty structured. That's like

I mean, I know how it goes, which is like you have the structure and then it's like somebody dot and you're like, oh man, okay, just kidding on that day. We're doing this instead. But that's really cool. What, I'm kind of curious, like back when I was in fitness, I didn't make, there's, I didn't make much content. You know, I got, I could post a few things online and get a client immediately, right? Because it was like the heydays. It was like 14 years ago. But like you came up and your brand has been built in fitness, like

Have you ever at any point felt any pressure or negativity or like need to conform being in that industry specifically where, because I imagine like you're this very smart, very powerful woman who's running a company, but you're also putting yourself out there in fitness and essentially being a model for your company. And so it's like this juxtaposition of two things where I'm guessing people often put you in a box because you're also very beautiful. I'm kind of curious, like what has that been like for you?

Just the pressure of having so many eyeballs on you. I think when I first started social media, if you look at my old videos, I mean, they're so awkward and cringy. Every once in a while, one comes up and I'll watch them. But I enjoy it because I think that I've grown so much as a person. Yeah. I think when I very first started filming, I was very...

nervous. I do still get nervous doing any type of public speaking. It's like my worst fear right now and I'm really trying to conquer it. I've done like two. I've done two little mini events. Podcasts I just really enjoy because I feel like it's just a conversation so I don't really get too too nervous with podcasts. When I started filming for YouTube, you know, I was extremely awkward. I think is the best way to put it. But I really just thought about, I'm just talking to a friend and I think that really helped me

get comfortable over time like fairly quickly ish but I think the person that helped me the most is probably my husband so when we started dating he was like you worry about too much stop worrying just put it out there and I was like you know what you're right so he really helped me come out of my shell a lot now when I you know pop up on social media I really just look at it like it's a big

girl group chat because that's how my community is. Like, they're so fun. That's the way that I always kind of, you know, if it's on Instagram Live or I'm creating a YouTube video, I just think it's just a big girls group chat. And it's made me

a lot more comfortable kind of chatting. And when it comes to business, I would say it's difficult because when you have a team, you have this brilliant team who does incredible things, but then sometimes, you know, issues happen, little mistakes happen. Of course. Which I'm all about saying, you know, it's okay. You can make mistakes. Just own it, be transparent, move forward. That's all you can do. Yeah. I like to think that I'm a very

Calm leader. I remember I had a director of design who was, she was new and we had a product that we had to push out into another launch. We're launch based. So if all of our product that's coming from all over the world doesn't come in on time, we have to move back a launch or we just have to drop an item. Yeah. I don't remember if we had to move the launch back or if we had to pull launch out, but I was just listening to her case. I was like, okay, this is happening. It's out of our control. So we're going to move this. Boom, boom. Okay. What's next? And she was like,

You're not mad? I can't. We don't have time. Too much time. We don't have time to waste. It's okay. Things happen. It's out of our control. Yeah. Solution and move on. And that's how I've been able to move pretty quickly. But when PR things happen, that can be hard because sometimes, you know, it can be a mistake on my end, which I'm like, hey, I'm going to own it. And then sometimes if it's a mistake by an employee, that's hard because sometimes I own it just to kind of cover up for them. And but sometimes it's

I mean, the internet, people can find out all kinds of things. And like, they'll be like, this wasn't Heidi, this was. And I'm like, guys, like, leave them alone. And so it can be really hard when all the eyeballs are on you because sometimes they'll blame you for everything. And then sometimes they'll try to pick on your team and you just got to, you just got to like stand up for them, you know? Have you always had such a positive mindset? You seem very resilient. You know, I was talking to my sister the other day about it. I think that I've always just been a person that has constantly just tried to survive. Yeah.

You're like, actually, I'm just trying to survive right now. We were just talking. She's like, Heidi, you've always worked so hard ever since you were young. And I've always just maintained a positive outlook. I guess I've always seen the silver lining. And I think something that I've realized recently is I...

I've always just tried to survive and be independent for myself. I've always had this mindset where it's like, no one's coming to save you. You're just going to save yourself. So there's not like a friend who's going to save you. There's not like a knight in shining armor who's going to come save you. You really just have to roll up your sleeves and do the work yourself. And I think that I've just had that mindset since I was young, since I started working. Especially because, you know, it is interesting because I think that the, I mean, you can probably see just like how in culture things shift.

You know, and I think a lot of people do want somebody to just come and save them. Yeah. And so it's unique to hear, to hear that, especially from something, you're beautiful. You have so much going for you. You could probably find a guy to take care of you. You just go on a date, right? You could, when you weren't married. So when I first got into fitness, I was a personal trainer. I remember I was talking to a couple of my clients. This was in Orange County, California. And they were talking about

I'm going on breakfast, lunch date. I was like, girl, what? You know, we're at 7 a.m. We're training. And she was like, you don't understand. She's like, why are you working so hard? And I was like, what? She's like, why do you work so hard? She's like, just go on a date, breakfast, lunch, dinner, get someone to take care of you and you don't have to worry about it.

It's funny because I never had that mindset either. The fact that you could think that somebody else could take care of you. It was like I just wasn't programmed with whatever that is. It sounds like you weren't either. It's just like was not in my DNA. Terrifies me. Terrifying. Yeah. I don't know why. Why are we like this? I don't know. Self-sufficient? Yeah.

I think so. You have a good dad? Yes, exactly. That could have been it. Also, I think maybe the different relationships that you have in life. I don't hate any of my ex-boyfriends by any means, but I think that I've been in some relationships where...

I had a hard time trusting them where maybe I just felt like I could never let myself be taken care of by some of the previous relationships that I've had where I was like, okay, I want to be able to provide for myself and for my kids. And I guess I would just hear stories about, you know, women who did do that. And then they were like, you know, they were just tossed aside for some younger girl. I don't know. So I think what I just realized really young that I'm

I just want to take care of myself. And then I met my husband, who is a wonderful human. And I was like, not that I would ever stop doing everything that I'm doing, but I think it was the first time that I felt really safe in a relationship in the sense of I know that he's got my back no matter what. And I think it was all my other previous relationships. I think that I learned so many different things. I wouldn't say that any of them were toxic by any means, but I think that my husband was probably my soulmate where we just like clicked. And

And when did you guys, at what point in building your brand and your business did you meet him? I had done a few different, like more merch style launches because I don't know if you remember, but whenever you were a YouTuber or you started doing social media, you had merch, you sold merch. So that was my first step was doing some t-shirts that said Buff Bunny on them. And I didn't think that people would really even purchase them. I was like, this is a word that means a lot to me. Yeah.

putting that on a t-shirt I was like I hope people like it and they loved it and I did like two or three merch drops and then I did one main Buff Money Collection launch it's like my first official launch like leggings and bras and things like that um we had met each other like years prior I think we had two three small conversations and then I didn't see him for years and he came up to me I think we're in the UK and he was like hi and I was like Christian I was like Christian

Christian. He had grown. He's four years younger than me. Yeah. And I've never been interested in younger guys. Cougar. No, I'm kidding. I,

I always say that. I'm like, oh my gosh, look at me. But it's funny because you're short. So like, I would think you're younger than him. I just don't know. He gets, I get carded all the time. Like, especially in Vegas, there's been a few times where they've taken so long with my ID and I'm like, I'm 35. Come on, like, let's go. And I look at my husband, like no ID needed. And I'm like, poor guy, like some four years, four years older than him. It happens to my sister. She's like seven inches shorter than me. So people always think she's my kid. So I get it. Yeah.

It's a short thing. Yeah, it is. Yes. So you guys met. You're in the UK. Yes, we met in the UK. Or we knew each other, been years. He came up to the UK and he was just like, you know, it's been a few years. And he was like, yo, congratulations on everything you're doing. I think I had done like two merch launches and he had his company. It was like a year and a half later, there came to a point where we were both single. He...

figured out a way to talk to me was through business because I wouldn't give him the time of day. He asked me to be an alpha lead athlete, like an athlete for his company. He would send me DMs. I would just ignore them. And then as soon as he started texting me about business, it was like, yeah, I'm sending these novels back. This is how I'm doing my stock colors or my custom colors. My MOQs are about this much. And that really, he really got me there. It's like it really got you going, huh? He just, he knew what to do, which was talk business to me. And I was like,

I'm intellectually stimulated. No, I love that. I think that makes a lot of sense. You guys meet, you both, he has his thing, you have your thing. How have you managed to have to, I would say like both have separate, very successful businesses and have your successful relationship? I would say maybe what was it like in the beginning, maybe figuring that out and then what has it evolved into? Great question. I think when we first started dating,

It was fun and exciting. And the first time he came to my house, I'll never forget my assistant at the time. She was like, Christian's coming over. And I was like, yeah, she's like the enemy because he had a clothing line. And I was like, oh, my God, she's not. She's like, what if he's just dating you to steal your ideas? I was like, he's not stealing my ideas. He's going to go look at these big brands. He's not looking at I just started. I've had like one big launch. But he came to visit and she had tore down. It was like an idea mood board and she had ripped everything off and put it.

Put it away. He comes in. He's looking at my office. He's like, there's nothing on your mood board. I was like, my team doesn't trust you. So it was really fun in the beginning. We definitely had our hurdles. Part of me was like, man, I wish we worked for the same company. There was times in our careers where I was like, I wish we both owned the same company so we could have two employees.

strong minded people on one company. Yeah. But there was a few times where I would stay up late with him and work with him. And I was like, I do not want this. Not there is no part of me that wants this.

Just because both of us are extremely creative, visionaries, and we have all these ideas and we need someone to actually execute them. And I'm more, I would say I'm almost this hybrid of I have these really great ideas and I can execute them and I can wear these two different hats, if you will, where he is just a brilliant mind. And he will, he calls himself like someone that kind of like bulldozes through it, right? And I was like, I like to have plans in a place.

So I think we quickly realized, you know, it's actually better that we have our own separate companies. He has his own style. I have my own style. It's actually great. Technically, we're competitors, but I'll come over to him and be like, hey, this like glute seam is really crushing right now.

And then he'll come to me and do the same thing. He's like, don't do capris. You're not doing great. And so we actually use that to our advantage where we let each other know what's truly behind the curtain of what's doing well, what isn't. And I didn't have mentors during my come up of business. But I think that one thing that really helped myself, my husband, and a lot of our friend groups

is that we kind of all came together. We were all business owners. It's myself, my husband, and I think like three or four other guys in Houston. And we all got together and we would be like, great, here's a great website person. Here's a great photographer. Here's a great model. Don't work with this person. This person's great.

And we kind of built this group of people. They say that you're the average of the five people that you spend the most time with. And I think that was a huge part of how we all flourished. Like all of us kind of came up with our own companies. They've all been successful. And I think it's because we really leaned into each other. It's almost like your own little board of directors. Yes. But all with our own separate companies, which is really cool. Right.

That's so interesting. And you found people that weren't, didn't feel like it was competition. They felt like you were all getting something from it. They weren't scarce to your mind. Yes. It's funny because I think all of us had a clothing line. That's crazy. So we had this common denominator of we all had...

a clothing line. They were all a little different though. So mine was like definitely more on the feminine side. It's like if you took, you know, a bodybuilder woman or a woman who loves to lift weights and she really wants to stay in touch with that feminine side, that's Buff Bunny. And then my husband has his company, which is a little bit more of that alpha, a little bit more masculine side of it. And then our other friends, some of them had more streetwear. So everyone had their own personality to it. So were we competitors? Sure. But

But we all had our own style to it and we were all looking out for each other's back. If there was a model that was just really hard to work with, we kind of let each other know. Or if there was an affiliate who's just crushing it and she's not exclusive, we're like, hey, everyone should be working with this girl. She's really pulling at sales. So we all really...

helped each other. And the through line that I'm seeing here through like talking about your husband and talking about your friends is just collaborate, don't compete. Seems like that's how you do it. I don't think any of us are really competitive. If anything, we get excited to let each other know like this is really, this is helping a lot. Yeah. No, that's really cool. It's so unique to find too because, you know, even in my last company gym launch, I mean, we would have people so competitive to the degree that they're like, if there's anybody else that's using this program that's in my city, I don't want to do it because it's

then we're going to be competing. And I was like, well, you can either compete with one hand behind your back or you can compete with both like they are. Right.

And I was also like, if that's what you think your competition is, then that's tough because competition is your laziness and the fact that you have this mindset. Exactly. Yeah. You get so much farther with collaborating. Right. And now do you both like in terms of like how you manage, like you have a very demanding company. He has a very demanding company. How do you manage having time together? Do you plan it? Do you plan it and he just shows up? Like how does that work? That's a good question. I'm definitely...

Big planner. Big plan girl. Love my plans. I'm like, great. You want to hang out? Let's put this in for 5 to 7 p.m. Like, I can't help it. It's just who I am as a person. Yeah. My husband's definitely more of like that free flow. Like, let's just go with the flow. And I'm like, I need to plan. More of a planner. Yeah.

I would say we are at the point now where we are able to just unplug-ish on the weekends. I say ish because tomorrow we both actually have a launch on the same day. I'm like, why haven't we had this tomorrow? We both have a launch tomorrow, yes. His is like a big launch. Mine is just, I have launches every six to eight weeks or so. Hmm.

But I have a wonderful team who I can trust. Like I could just completely clock out. They can handle it. But I'm very hands on. I love being able to do it as much as I can. I would say our thing is we have a trip that we like to go on every summer and we try to be gone for like a month. We're like, let's push, push, push, push.

And then we're going to go to the Caymans for a month. So three or four weeks or so. Wow. It's our favorite place. What do you do? Like, how is it going from being on, on, on, on, on? You're just off for a month. Like, I know I'm asking for myself because I'm like, how do you just unplug for a month? Not really unplug. I'm sorry. Okay.

You're like, no, no, I still check my email. Oh, no, I still check my messages. My husband and I will, for like three or four weeks, we'll be on the beach. Let's say that. And we will drink margaritas and we will eat chicken tenders. And we just, we work out sometimes. And we just like really enjoy each other's time. We do this thing where we do like a tipsy Q&A on most of our yearly thing where we'll have a couple drinks and we'll answer fun questions. Oh, like on your social medias? On a YouTube, yeah. And it can be like business related, personal related, blog related.

both of us are very transparent online which makes it really fun but then there's still some things that we just keep to ourselves as well because you know boundaries yeah but I'm sure I understand because I get the questions too and I'm like yeah exactly but I think my husband's really good at unplugging he will just like turn his phone off and it'll be dead for a week he's like it's okay and I cannot do that like he'll go off for a swim on my cat and I look at my phone I'm just like look at these messages can't help it no but I don't feel drained by it I love it

I feel like if I didn't check on my team for a few days, I would probably feel just very anxious. Like I want to make sure that they're okay. And if they need anything that I can do, yes. And it's not to say that Christian doesn't care, but he's like, he's really pushed himself to different levels that even I haven't pushed myself to. So I think that he kind of needs that unplug. Yeah. Yeah. Some people are different. What's your philosophy around work-life balance or work-life integration? Do you have any ideas?

way that you penetrate that into your company when people come in? Like, you're like, hey, this is how we do things here. These are my views on how these things work. The three words that we tell our team whenever they come working, you know, when they come to work with us is three things.

is excellence. Everything you do, do it with excellence. Don't cut corners. Don't quickly do something. Like everything that you do should be like a masterpiece. Like you're so proud of this work. That's something fun where in the past, you know, I'd have like a team member. Maybe they want to like push a design forward or they want to like post this graphic. And I'll be like, if we did it, because I do polls. I think it's really helpful for people

getting that data from our community, be like, hey, would you all like to wear this legging or this legging? And they'll let me know right away. And I'm like, perfect. I love it. And so they'll be like, hey, we weren't unsure about this. We're not sure. And I'm like, did you ask the community? Go ask them. See what they think. And a lot of times it can make them feel very empowered by being like, wow, we got a 90%. Yes. So I have this thing where it's like it has to be 80% in order for it to be a masterpiece, if you will. If it's below that, it's like, let's go back to drawing board a little bit, continue to improve it until we get that 80%.

So you're not ever asking your team unless, or you're not ever launching anything unless you have an over 80%. Not quite. I think that my team, like we know what does well, but if we're unsure and we're like, you know what? Yeah.

This is a wild card. Yeah. Yeah. Something new. Yes. We have this poll of people. It's about 150 women. And we'll be like, what do y'all think about this? And if we get an 80% yes, we'd go for it. But there's been times where we've gotten like a 90% no. And like the team is like, we feel strongly about this. I'm like, I don't know about it at all. And so I like to get full. I like to get that data. I'm like, great. Let's take that concept that you want to do. Let's put it somewhere else. Doesn't mean it's a terrible idea. It just means that it needs a little bit more TLC before it

It's a masterpiece. That's really helped. So do things with excellence always. And then transparency. I think that the best, the most best run companies is run by a transparent team. So being transparent with, you know, your employees as a leader, but then also coworkers. It's like, just be transparent. If you forgot about the project, you did it wrong. You didn't, you didn't make the best decision in that moment. It's okay. Just own it. Be transparent. Make

move forward. And, you know, if we mess up as a team, as a company on something, I just tell the team, you gotta be transparent with the customers. You know, did we launch a legging that was, I don't know, slightly sheer?

Own it. Don't try to hide it. You can't hide it. It's transparent. Yeah. So we do everything with transparency. And then our other word is diversity. So everything you do as an inclusive brand, making sure that we are diverse. Diverse in the product. Diverse in the way that we educate. Diverse in the website. And kind of make sure it fits all shapes and sizes. Yes, exactly. So yeah, do everything with excellence, transparency. Are those your values? Okay.

Okay. So the three? Yes. Oh, nice. You know, it's funny. I don't often meet somebody who only has three. It's like most people have like 10. I used to have 10. Did you? I did have 10. It was a long list of 10. And then I just, I narrowed it down to like the three main ones. And we do want to continue to build. We're like, okay, these are the three most important things for our internal team. Yeah. To like really understand in order to perform really well. You can remember three. Mm-hmm.

Exactly. You can remember all three. I think it actually takes more discipline to have less values than to have more. You know, I've walked into buildings where they're like, these are our 10 values and then these are our 16 principles. And I'm like, the fuck? It's like...

I'm like, okay, honesty, integrity, this, that, blah, blah, like frigging what the hell? Yeah, it's too much. Just all the nice words in the alphabet, you know? And you're like, yeah, so we want to be good people, not liar to your deal, right? Exactly. And when it comes down to it, I just tell the team, like, just make good decisions. That's all it comes down to. I think there was some company had that in their company handbook. The handbook said make good decisions. And I was like, I love that.

And if you can't find someone who knows what that means, then they shouldn't be in the company. Exactly. So, yeah, we used to have 10 principles. And I can't even tell you what those 10 principles are because it was eight years ago when we had those. And exactly what you said, I was like, it's a bunch of motivational words that don't really mean anything. So we narrowed it down to these three that have so much meaning and power behind them. And I was like, you can remember three. That's a good way to explain that to them. I love that. That's really cool. I know that your brand exists.

You're very mission focused. I'm curious how you determine...

what the next move is, whether it be for a funny collection, whether it be for grounds, like how do you decide what you say yes or no to? Because there's so many people that they're never going to reach your level because they just simply don't say yes or no to the right things. You know what I'm saying? Yes. I'm curious, like, do you have a method for doing that or has it been purely guided by the desire to help women? I think it's a,

a little bit of a, so funny, I don't like the word balance. I was like, it's a little bit of a balance, you can say, where I'll use this for an example. I wanted to start a fitness app eight years ago. And I thought, you know what, Buff Money Collection or fitness app. I was like, I'm going to do Buff Money Collection. But once Buff Money Collection gets to the point, once I've built a team, I've built a brand to where I'm comfortable taking a

a baby step back in order to be able to handle having a whole nother business, a whole nother team of employees that are completely different. Yes. I'm going to wait for the

for the perfect time, but not too long. It did wait quite a while, but I didn't realize Buff Money Collection would grow to the point that it did. So a good problem to have. Yeah. But I waited till the right moment to take a step back and then build grounds. Choosing that moment was, did I feel absolutely ready in that moment to do grounds? Not really, but I was like, this is, I think I can handle both of them. It was a bit of a struggle at first to try to manage it.

I think it's two separate companies that are different. You have a physical good and I have a digital good. Completely different businesses, different worlds. Trying to know and now it's like okay what's the next move in order for both to grow? In that sense we have so many different opportunities that come up. Everyone's telling you what you should what you shouldn't do. I would say a lot of

A lot of it, I hate to say it's my gut, but you really have to weigh all the decisions, right? So right now we thought, you know what, do we want to go into the retail space? We can either have our own stores or we can partner with retailers. So that was a decision where like, great, how can we do both and leverage both of those? And so it's like decisions like that where you almost have to really like

draw out the plans for both. Like, what's your five-year goal for, yes, for both sides? Which one do you want to start with first? And then being able to bring in the second one, right? So if you're going to do, you want to do overall retail, it's like, great. If we want to do both, let's get into other retailers first, use that leverage, and then have our own stores. So you don't have a problem being patient? I'm not the most patient person in the world. I'm like, let's go, let's go.

Me and my COO, we're always trying to figure out ways that we can, we're like, how do we get from idea to execution? Totally. And I think that's just, that's strategic. Yes. I think what it is, is even in just saying that though, you're like, you know, and then in a couple of years, just put yourself like, I know that you, but think about so many people that are starting, that majority of America's small businesses that are doing less than 5 million in revenue.

Why do they not get to the size that you're at? Another reason I think is because the lack of patience. When you talk to somebody who has a small business, they speak in days. You're speaking in years. And you're talking about, okay, if we do this, then in two years we can do this. Whereas if I speak to somebody who has a smaller business, people are talking, well, by next month. That might take three months. I'm like, oh my God. Yeah.

It would take three months to do that. Jesus, what are we going to do in the meantime? You know, build another business, might as well. Yeah. You know, so I think that that definitely shows. And what you're talking about, too, with like, you know, there's a theory that I have, which is like most people work really, really hard just on the wrong things in the wrong order.

It sounds like you put a lot of thought into what's the order of the sequence of how we're going to do these things. Because if you gain leverage on one, then it makes the next one easier, which it sounds like is what you're thinking through with these opportunities now. Yes. I think with looking at the businesses in different departments, Buff Money Collection, for example, when I first started the brand, I didn't think it would, you know, do that well. It took me a while to get a warehouse because I was like, I don't know. I was thinking in that direction.

that small business mindset where you're like, oh my gosh, I can't get a warehouse and sign a three-year lease. That's crazy. That's three years. Absolutely not. But I think with each launch, I got a little bit more confident. And then also I was like, there's only so much space in my house to be doing a fulfillment center right now. I need space. I think what I did is I built this

blueprint for launches. So what we typically do is we have a launch. They're fun themes. It's like, I want women to feel something special with each launch. And we really, we have a debrief. Every time we have a launch, we have a debrief and we go over, Hey, what is everything we did? Right. How, how could we do more of that? And less of the things that we didn't do very well.

And so I think that helps. And those are things that my team does now. And I'm in most of them. And it's fun. And it's exciting to see all the different department heads that go, we like really crushed on this. Sometimes it's great. We had a couple exclusive athletes that absolutely crushed and said, how can we get more of those? How can we build on that side of the business? These ads did really well. How can we look at those ads and be able to branch off of those ads in order to do more like that? And the ones that did poorly, why? And being able to make sure that we don't do ads

ads like that again that didn't have a good you know performance now I think that that's part of I mean because as you're talking about everything it's like customer focus at groups product innovation cycles like constantly iterating like getting the feedback from it's just like

But those are such things that so many people don't do. It's like, what do I do? And you're like, I don't know, ask the customers. Like, it's an obvious answer. But a lot of people are so far from the customer, even just in how you speak, you're constantly referring to the women that you serve. I think that that alone is

I mean, it's clear to me that's a reason why you're so successful is you're so in tune with them and you're connected, which I think part is probably from your brand and having that constant feedback. But I think another piece is that you have to integrate that into the company and you obviously have. And it's such a key piece that so many people that I hope are listening to this here because so many people forget about the customer. They get too focused on the ads, the marketing, the this, the cashflow, the P&L, the hiring, firing. They forget who they're doing it all for.

Yes, and that's why, you know, whether it's Buff Money Collection or Grounds,

Whenever I'm making big decisions on product, I always think I put myself back in that mindset of myself. You know, when I gained some weight, walked into the gym and just felt terror. You know, you're so scared. You don't want to be there. And I was like, what would she want? I remember there was one moment. I know exactly what you're talking about, where some people, they lose focus of like, who's this for? Who is the customer? And they're just thinking, oh, marketing ads and this. And we were building grounds. We were building a dashboard for macros, right? I was like, OK, why?

whatever started doing macros is very overwhelming. So they're looking at the different options they can have for like a layout for the macros. Yeah. And they're asking all these girls, they're asking these trainers, they're like, oh, does this make sense? Does this make sense? I was like, you're asking the wrong people. Those are not the people that are going to be confused. I was like, asked one of the girls, I was like, have you ever tracked your macros? She was no. I go, great. Can you look at this? And she was like, I'm overwhelmed. I'm like, great. That's the answer that I wanted. Back to the drawing board. Right. That's also making sure that you're asking the right customer that you're targeting.

targeting as well. I think that's a really, really good point there. She's like, what's a macro? And she's like, exactly. And that was the response. And you know, the team was like, no, no, we're confident. This is, this makes sense. This makes sense. And they're going around asking all these advanced trainers. And I was like, no, it was like my younger self would look at this and just feel more overwhelmed. We need to make this so easily digestible for a newbie. So she feels confident when she's utilizing it.

It's funny because I have a couple of people in the company that are super, super smart, very intelligent. And every time they love an idea, I'm like, oh, well, then it definitely won't work. Because you're not who we're talking to right now. Like you're just, this is not how most people think. And then they'll be like, oh.

Or they'll be like, I hate that. I'm like, great, then people are gonna love it. And they're like, what? And I'm like, see, you hate everything everyone else loves. So this is a great indicator for me. So I think that's really smart to be able to lock in on that. I'm curious when you're talking about like gathering the information from everything and being able to iterate on the next steps, like along the way to building the brand that you have and the companies that you have, I'm sure there's been a lot of failure. How have you been able to, I mean, like, have you had any moments where you've been like, I don't know if I'm gonna do this anymore? And if so, like,

What do you tell yourself to keep going? A few years ago, I was creative director, marketing director, head of product. And it was I was wearing so many hats that I was like, man, I love what I do, but I know that I can find someone that does it better than me. I went to school for biology and I dropped out. Come on. There's a lot of other people out there who could do these certain positions and do it better. And I can just give them my feedback like this is how I want

I think with creative, it was hard in marketing because I'm a storyteller and I love to make women feel a certain way with our campaigns. And so even now, it's like really working with the teams in order for them to understand the meeting. And I can't help it. I love going on set. So I'm like, I just like, can I go to this one? Because this story, I really want to make sure it comes to life. Yeah. And I always tell the team, whether or not someone's going to purchase, you

I want to make them feel something when they watch these videos. So we've done really powerful videos just that make women think like, I can do this. I can do hard things. And so with some of the videos that we've done as well, some of them are a bit jarring where it's like, oh God, like we did this one for grounds and it was about calling out, you know, like the waist trainers and like the skinny tees and like all of that. I was like, man,

a lot of companies make so much money selling this but they're kind of bullshit products let's make a really emotional time video that relates to a woman like tried utilizing all these things and then really all they needed was like a call from their mom to like snap them out of it and so I really love storytelling in that sense because I was like maybe someone's talking to download grounds or they're not going to purchase a pair of leggings but at least we made them feel something and I think for me that means more to me than like a sale and that might be a

a terrible business move, but I think me focusing on that and hyper-focusing on it actually helps sales. Yeah. So,

Because women felt something when they watched that video. They feel a lot more tied to that pair of leggings because it made them think of that video that they watched. You know, there's people that I speak to and they build a business so that they can make money. And then there's people that I speak to that they want to build a great product, want to help a community, want to build a great team, and they make money by consequence. So I think you fall into that camp. And I think that's way more sustainable because

Because, I mean, if you're just doing something for money, that gets really old quick. And you could probably have already been done by now. You know what I mean? So I don't see that as a bad thing at all. I think that's really cool. I think it makes the days. I think if you're doing it for money, too. I've had a lot of people find a lot of expos. That's always a question. I want to make a lot of money doing fitness stuff. I strongly encourage you to find something that you really love to do that, you know, when you get up in the morning, especially after 8am.

for eight years, you're just as excited. If it's just money you're looking for, you won't have that excitement. You won't have that drive on like the days where you're just like, I'm so sick of putting out all these buyers. Yeah, 100%. I agree with you completely because especially people ask me all the time, how do I sell my business? I'm like, hold your business. It's six months old.

I'm like, so six months old and you already want to sell it. They're like, well, I started it so I could sell it. I was like, that is going to be a painful journey. It's like, yeah, I had a kid so that I could get them out of the house. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, that's, you're just asking for the ending before it's even begun. That's actually something I wanted to ask you is like, you know, in building the brand and having the success, have you ever at any point in time thought about or been approached of like having somebody come in, invest in the company, taking some chips off the table? Has that ever been anything that you've considered? I

I think for me, if we did, my husband was approached by someone that

wanted to do the same thing. They're like, I'll give you all this money and we want like part of your business. And he was like, the money isn't the problem. I have a lot of money. The problem is I need someone to help me function like this, this company. I want someone to help me with the employee side of things. And I think for myself, it would, like, I felt the same way at the time. It was a couple of years ago when this was going on, I think three years ago. And we were like, we are so blessed because we have so much income right now from our companies. And

It's more of if we did, it's someone coming in to help us structure because, you know, as creatives, that's the hardest part for us. Like we just want to run. We just want to run. But sometimes it's like you need to continuously build out. It's like a continuous blueprint of bringing in all these different positions. So that was one. And then I know when I created Grounds, when we launched, I had multiple people come forward and were like, I will invest. I will do this. And I was like, I'm not ready for that yet. Yeah.

like I want to keep building. I have so many plans for grounds that are no one's ever done before. Yeah. And I'm so excited to launch them. And I was like, I don't want anyone to take a piece of grounds right now because I have so many other amazing plans that I want to do. And I would be nervous that someone might be like, slow down a little bit, like, but I want to continue running. There have been times too. I think I had a, I have a friend who's like, oh, like I have all this money saved up. Can I just like put it in grounds? Like that's not how it works. Yeah.

You're like, and then suddenly, what? Yes, exactly. That's not how investing works. But yeah, I think. Wow. So it's been all this time and you've not, that's really, that's a testament to how much you love the company. I do. Because most people that I speak to too, I mean, that had a company for as long as you have,

Especially around like the I would say like five to seven year mark is when people like tend to be like I want to take chips off the table or do this or do that. I think that's a good way to put it. I would be open to taking chips off the table. Yeah. But to completely sell it. I don't think I love what I do right now. Oh, yeah.

No, that would be tough, especially with like if you're tied. I mean, it's something that I as somebody who I'm on both sides, I'm like, don't fully sell a company that you're the face of. Yes. Then, you know, oftentimes you have to sell your name image likeness to them. And then they basically control you. So it's like they almost become your manager to a weird degree. Yes.

which a lot of people don't know. I know some people who have gone through a transaction and then they actually come to us and be like, how do we get out of this? I'm like, I can't even help you. They sell 80% of their business. They don't realize they sign away all their rights to basically like control their brand. And then they basically have to work for the company that buys it, which doesn't do what in a way that they would have done it. And it's like, if you're already successful, yeah, it's a difficult thing to do. I think it's...

I also think there's an interesting shift that I do think is going to occur, which I think will be interesting for someone in your position, which is a lot of investors, even right now, are talking about rather than looking for products to invest in, the new way of doing like venture capital, for example, is that they want to look for people to invest in brands. And they're going to go brand first and then say, great, now how do we use our operational expertise to help them build businesses? Right.

So I know some investment firms, for example, that are now just targeting like people on YouTube with, you know, 10, 15 million followers that don't even have a business. And they're saying, we're going to invest just in your YouTube channel. And so I think it's going to be a really interesting landscape. So I'm interested to see the next like two years. I'm sure people will approach you, but you already have these very successful businesses as well. So it's going to be an interesting time. Like I said, I would be open to taking chips off. I think that with Buff Money Collection, I did this with Grounds actually, and a lot of people were

confused. They're like, why didn't you call the Buffbunny app? But I did that very strategically. I did that on purpose. So for Buffbunny Collection, I used to be like the face of the brand. I was like the model doing all this. But if you actually look at the Instagram, I don't really model very often for it. I kind of like take my own personal brand and I push Buffbunny Collection and I love to nerd out and talk about the products. I'm like, we put this welt pocket right here? Yeah. And I enjoy it.

So with Buff Money Collection, I'm no longer the face of it because it's an inclusive brand. So we actually like are always looking for different types of ones to shoot for the brand. When I created Grounds, I did so very strategically. I was very advised against launching with five trainers or like you're crazy. You should launch with you and then add trainers. Now, would that have been easier? Yes. But the purpose of Grounds is to be an inclusive app.

That way, you know, not everyone's going to relate to me. They're going to go on the app and they're going to be like, okay, she's in great shape. And I just can't connect with her. I wanted a woman to go on the app and see one of the five girls. I connect with her more.

Maybe I'm in my early 20s. I feel more comfortable doing Bailey's. Maybe I am 40. I feel more comfortable doing Kara's. So I really built each trainer, brought them on very strategically so a woman could feel at least one personal connection with a trainer. Totally. And then also, I wanted to separate the name because I felt like it was important for Buff Money Collection to have its own identity and also Grounds to have its own identity. In case I ever wanted to sell one or the other, I wouldn't get both. No, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

I also think if you're being advised in the beginning, it's easy. I love the laugh. Yeah. Well, it's like, sure. Launch it with just you. Easy now, hard later. Yes. And what you did was hard now, easy later. Yes. Because, and that's really always the trade-off we're making, which is like, it's either going to be hard in the beginning.

Or it's going to be hard later. Which one do you want? Choose your hard. Yeah, choose your hard. It's funny because I think, I don't know about you, but I think going through my own fitness journey, I lost a lot of weight. Like that taught me so many of the skills that actually applied to business. And I feel like that might be where you've gotten a lot of yours too, because it's like the patience, the being long-term minded, the being willing to work your fucking face off, being willing to be uncomfortable, like all of those things.

I feel like fitness in a way is like such a good breeding ground for entrepreneurship because you agree. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. I think for myself, I think the hardest time of my life was when I did, have you ever done a bodybuilding competition? I did a bikini competition. Yes. All right. Yeah. The whole era. We were all doing it, right? Yeah. Yeah.

that taught me so much about myself I think because at the time I was in college I was just starting YouTube I was working a full-time job part-time job a different full-time I was doing a lot four jobs right yes I think when I did the bikini competition I was doing three possibly four it all kind of blurred more than one is a lot for yes but what I did is I found jobs we were like four jobs is a lot it was

It was one full-time job and then other jobs that paid me a lot for a short amount of time. And so that was the way I kind of maneuvered that. Also, I'm structuring this so I can make overall more money for less time. Yeah. I was doing that. When I did a bodybuilding competition, I was just astounded at the progress that I made in my body. And for

for me it was hard because you know day after day you're not seeing changes right I was like I've never had a six pack and I totally did it for vain reasons you know I was like I lost a lot of weight and then bodybuilding the bikini competitions everyone was doing them and so I was like I would love to see if I could get a six pack I'm crazy and so me following this regimen and I coach myself so I like taught myself how to prep like what all goes into it all the macros all the things and I remember lifting up my shirt it was like towards the end of the prep I was like oh

Like, oh, my God, I have to make an 80-pack. I've got to find these photos. Yeah. I was so proud of myself because I woke up a lot of those mornings just, like, in tears because I was so stressed out. I was so tired. Yeah. But I was so proud of myself because…

I was like, I came out of this. I was in school too. So I got straight A's and I was like, this is temporary. And like during that semester was like the hardest time. I was like, if I can do all of this, I can do anything. And so that hard semester taught me so much about myself. I mean, I pushed myself past any boundary I thought that I had. And with prepping for a show and just doing fitness in general, when you're meal prepping and you're following a fitness regimen, you have to be so dedicated.

You have to have boundaries. So even if you're a people pleaser, you have to say, nope, sorry, I got to work out. Can't eat that now. Take this tequila shot. Well, no, I actually can't. Yeah. As much as I want to. So you really learn boundaries and how to set up your blueprint in order to get what you want. I'm curious, like what your, did you do one or two or how many competitions? Three. And why'd you stop? So the first one I did and I got,

I do have a little bit of competitive set to me. Yeah, yeah. But it's fun, right? And my first show, I got fifth place. And I was like, I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I remember going on stage. I didn't think they would call my number. And so I'm staying there and they call my number. I was like, shit. But I walk out there and if you look at the, and I documented the whole thing.

So I go out there and I'm almost doing this like salsa routine because I do love salsa dancing because I didn't practice the posing. I was like, they're not going to call my number. Yeah, because I was told like, OK, there's, I don't know, 600. It was a big show. 600 competitors, I believe it was. So I didn't think I would get called. Wow. I didn't research enough, clearly. I should have. But they called my number and I ended up getting fifth place. And I was like so ecstatic. Went out with my friends, holding my trophy. I was like, I did it, guys. And they're like, do you want first place? I was like, yeah, but.

I'll try again later. So then I tried again. I got first place. I was like, okay, that was exciting. So then I did one other show, first place again. And then for me to excel in that, I knew that I'd have to take my body to extreme levels. And so I really had to sit with myself and think, am I doing this? Do I want to go to the Olympia stage one day? Is that my goal? If not, maybe I just do these for fun. I want to do them every once in a while for fun. And also I wanted to really speak to a woman that were that girled

for me, right? When I was just walking to the gym for the first time, I was like, my goal isn't to be Miss Bikini Olympia. My goal is to just like help women get from their starting point to just take a step forward. And me doing competitions, I feel like didn't align with that. So like, I love the sport and I tune in and I watch Olympia and I'm like, oh my gosh. And like, I'm all about it, but I just, I stopped competing. I still watch it as well. You do? Like, Chris Bumms did. Oh yeah. I mean, I remember being

23 in my apartment by myself. This is before I, no, it's 22. In my apartment by myself on the couch, my futon, watching it on like, I can't remember where it streamed live on there. Like for the first time watching like Kai Green and like some of the OGs competing. I just like,

I thought it was so impressive what people could do with their bodies, you know? And then when I competed for the first time, it's so funny to look back at the pictures because like, if I look at what I looked like versus now, what the, what's expected on stage, it's crazy. I was like, dang, we definitely qualified. Like what the hell's going on? So it's funny. Cause I had similar reasons. I was like, does this help me accomplish my long-term goals? You know? Cause I was going to compete and figure next. Cause I said, did you figure too? Did you? Okay. Yeah. Right. And so,

I said, I'm going to bulk. I'm going to do a crazy workout routine. I'm going to... And I got like four months into it and we were building Gym Launch. And I said...

how does this align with my goals? And that was kind of what did it for me. It was, I was like, this does not help me accomplish any of my goals. And if anything, I actually feel a little more isolated now because now the people I'm around, they're not competing and doing these things. They're building businesses and they're, you know, I'm learning all that. And so once my interest changed, and I think also understanding the cost of what it would take to even compete and figure, I was like, I don't think it's, it's for me anymore. Yeah. Yeah.

So, but it did. It taught me a ton. Do you think you learned more through the process of it or do you think you learned more through winning? Oh, the process. I didn't really care for a trophy. I mean, yes, I was a little bit competitive, but I told myself going into it, I was like, whether or not you win any placing in it. My favorite part was the journey. I think that I just became...

a more, well, it's funny because it's technically an unhealthy sport, right? People see these crazy physiques on stage and they may look healthy, but technically it's an unhealthy sport, right? For me, I just, as much as I respected the sport, I knew that, again, it was getting me away from my long-term goals and the extreme measures that I would have to take in order to keep going. It just, it wasn't worth it. What are your long-term goals now? Like personally and professionally, do you have goals that you set for yourself or a vision for what you want for your life?

I think right now I'm at the point where I'm so proud of, you know, Buff Lane Collection and I love grounds. I'm at the point where I want to keep building the brands because I just enjoy it doing it every day. But my husband and I, we just bought seven and a half acres of land and I want chickens and I want children and, but I want to be able to do it all.

Chickens and children. Chickens and children. Chickens, children, and land, but still work on my businesses and keep growing them. My COO and I often talk. She's like, Heidi, this is going to be a billion-dollar brand. And I was like, I want a billion-dollar impact. So we'll kind of like make jokes back and forth with each other. And she's like, I love that. So now instead of saying like we want a billion-dollar brand, we say we want a billion-dollar impact because she knows for me what's most important is the way that women feel when they wear the clothes. I love that.

So you want chickens, you want children, land. What's the plan to get there? Maybe rescue a few cats. You know, there's a lot of goals that I have in life. How does that change what you do on a daily basis? Or have you thought about that?

It doesn't really change too much. I know having kids is like a whole other, it's a whole other thing. I have 16 nieces and nephews. So I'm like, I've seen like my sisters and, you know, they're superheroes doing all the things that they do. I think, you know, step one, we got the house. We're going to run a day, get the chickens. We're trying for kids right now, hopefully soon, crossing the fingers. But we, I mean, we have, let's see, my two businesses, my husband has a gym, a clothing line, an energy drink, a bodybuilding league.

So I still get the bodybuilding side of things where I get to go. I help judge them. Do you have people to support you both personally that help?

Like you manage all this, like whether it be executive assistants, people that help with your house or your just day to day stuff? Or how do you get the support that you need to do everything you do? Yes, great question. So I have an amazing executive assistant. She is always looking out for my my best self. Like she'll be like, hi, do you have a lot of meetings? Are you sure you want to do that? Or, you know, you're you're landing at midnight and you have an 8 a.m. meeting. Are you sure that's the best idea?

So she has my back. He does have an executive assistant and we definitely have someone that comes help us take care of the house, clean it. She comes twice a week. That was, that's been wonderful. We have a great teams on every single out of all technically eight brands that we have. We have great teams that we've established to help

run each one. Yeah. I think that's what makes it a lot more manageable. And then I'm extremely careful how I sort out my calendar and I have like really good boundaries with my team. And I know my executive assistant, she's really great now where she'll look at the meeting and say, what's the agenda? Does Heidi actually have to go to that one? Like we really only need her at like the most important meetings. But if I have a manager director that really wants me there for certain ones that are out of my normal calendar, then

I absolutely respect that. I'm like, if they want me there, there's a reason. Was there a point where it shifted for you where it went from like working all the time, putting in, wearing all the hats? Like what did you have to learn to get yourself out of that? Because you'd learned boundaries prior. Yes. But then at some point you realize I kind of have to wear all the hats. Was it a skill or was it a mindset shift that got you to now be to the point where you have your sanity and you have your time and you're going to get your chickens? My chickens.

Yeah. I would say the biggest thing, and I'm sure small businesses struggle with this. So when I started the brand, I'm like, okay, I have no experience in this. I have no mentor. I have no loan. I have no business partner. I have nothing. It's just me and my crazy idea that I can do this. And so as I started hiring people, that was a whole new thing for me. How do you even, where do you even start when it comes to hiring people? So I hired a girl as my

as my personal assistant. That was my assistant for like a month, a part time. Okay. I thought you would be like for forever now. Oh, no, no, no. But she quickly turned into a full time and then like helping me with Buff Money Collection. So I was just moving very fast. Wow. Yep. And I hired her because at the time I was like, okay, I am filming and editing and uploading all these YouTube videos. I'm doing stuff on Instagram. I'm online coaching. I'm doing all these things. I'm at my laptop like 18 hours a day. Can you just like help me go

Go grocery shopping. Like the little things went a long way for me just so I could be at my laptop. Yeah. When it came to her, I just hired whoever applied. I was like, yeah, you seem cool. You seem fun to hang out with. I'll hire you. Yeah. She's amazing. So trying to hire the right people was such a big struggle for me in the beginning. Now, I feel like I have a really good system. But in the beginning, you just don't. You don't know shit. No. No.

So you're blindly going into this trying to pick the best people. But I think one thing that I have is I'm really good at reading people. So I don't know how, I don't know if it's a gift or what, but I'd look at people's resume and I usually knew if they were bullshitting or not. And meeting them using the first five minutes, I would know like this person would be a good, a good key player or not. And then as time went on, I think for me, you know, you hire, you fire, you try to grow, you try to build.

build this infrastructure of employees but you always have this fear when you're first starting like someone comes along and they're like oh I have all this experience but they cost more right they come with experience you're like oof I'm not ready for that I was afraid not that they would do a better job than me but I was like I'm scared that taking on an employee when you're very first starting with no experience to me I took it so seriously I was like I'm supportive

supporting this person and their family, this company has to succeed. Because I'm thinking of that person and their family, if they have a kid, like a wife, husband. So I was super scared to hire big hires back then. But as time went on, I think for me, it was three or four years ago, I hired some people before then that were bigger hires, but I hired a true COO and she changed my life, completely changed my life. She managed all the brands? She manages Buff Money Collection.

So she came in and she was like, some of these people are amazing. And, you know, we'd have conversations like these people need to be promoted. They're amazing. I'm like, yeah, right.

And then some other people, she was like, we need to get them KPIs. And if they're not performing, we need to find someone else who can take us to the next level. And so she really helped me build structures. Like I had lucid structures, but we came together and really, she was like, what's important to you for KPIs? And so we really built all these KPIs for the different departments. And that changed my life because for the first time I could go on vacation and not be checking my phone every minute because like everyone was coming to me for, I was a problem solver in every department. So now they went to her.

first, which was great. And then if she figured out she would come to me, which saved a lot of time. Yeah. That's, I mean, that's huge. What do you think in terms of hires that changed your life to get Buff Bunny to where it needs to be and to get grounds to where it needs to be? What key hires do you think come next? Right now? Yeah. To get you to the next level, to get you elevated in your role. Who do you think you need to bring in?

Now I would love to hire, I think a CMO would be amazing, but

I actually never had a marketing director until like five months ago. Wow. I just hired my first marketing director because we had this blueprint, right? And it was working. It still is working. Yeah. But I knew that I was like, in order for us to grow, we need to look at the blueprint and find ways to expand on it. Of course. And I can't do everything, right? So I hired a marketing director. I was like, oh, I can't believe we haven't had a marketing director. We

We've only had. As soon as you get them, you're like, how did I not have this? Exactly. I mean, she came in guns a blazing. I was like, I love this. This is great. I want more of you. We need more of you in order to do more. It makes sense. And so I think expanding in the different marketing roles, but I would love eventually sooner than later to have a CMO. Whoever sees all of it. I didn't have like a social media manager and I, and I did have a influencer marketing manager, but they would also constantly come to me in the past and they were like, what, what do we do? Like,

Like this is a blueprint that we were doing and they were always afraid to execute in the past. But then over time, we brought in some new people who have really like elevated those. And then I think a CMO would be great. My marketing director is great. Phenomenal. Love her. CMO. What about CTO? Do you have an app?

So I have an amazing product development team on Groundside, and they're, I mean, they're incredible. Doing great. Like, what they did with Ground in such a short amount of time is wild. Like, when you think about all the different features that they put into there, or put into the app, I would say it's probably like a five to seven year app for other companies to get to that level, and we did that in a year. Wow. So, I mean, there's a lot of engineers working on it, but...

Head of product. He's also one of the co-founders. He started the app with me. Heard. Okay. So he's essentially like a semi-CTO type. I'm curious, like for you, looking at the impact that you've had of just what you've done in the industry and like who you've been able to be to all these women. I know that you often speak...

to the women who are wearing the clothing and using the app. But to speak to women who want to be you and do what you've done and what you've accomplished, if you had to give them three of your best pieces of advice to those younger women who aspire to be like you, what would it be? I would say my best piece of advice, which I often tell women is, you know, or men, is just start.

I think a lot of times we get wrapped up in needing a perfect plan. And even myself, I'm a planner. I'm like, I need a plan, I need a strategy, and I will move forward. But a lot of times we let that hold us back from actually starting. And, you know, even when it comes to when I'm bringing on new hires or I have a girl that comes up to me at an expo and she's like, I really want to start this coffee mug company. I've had people, I've had a lot of girls come up to me and they're like, I want to start this brand. And I love it. I get, I start nerding out. I talk too long. But I always tell them as startups,

stupid and silly as it sounds like you just have to start it it could be a baby step it's actually sitting down and writing out your plan is step one but to actually start it's start on that actual plan that you're you're laying out if you want to start a coffee mug go get a sample made that's you just starting take action take action

I think that a lot of people just wait for the perfect moment and there's never going to be a perfect moment. There was never a perfect moment to start buff buying. There was never a perfect moment to start grounds. I always felt like, is it the right time? I'm just going to go for it. Just, just start it. And I'm so glad that I did. So that would be my biggest thing. And another one is not being afraid to take up space. I think a lot of people, they like to almost, like they have this brilliant idea, but they're so afraid to take action and to, to,

to start because we're like who am I to create this company and I'm like well who am I to create Buff Money Collection I don't think that I'm anyone special I came from a small town

And again, I feel like I started the brand really scrappy. I started my living room with nothing but just a really big dream. And so it's like, who am I to do that? And Google. Man, if I would have had ChatGBT. Y'all got ChatGBT now. Y'all better use that. Y'all better have multi-million dollar companies if you're watching this. It's just, it's wild. So I would say that the two most important things is just start and don't be afraid to take up space.

I think it's so many people. It's just like, I don't know how many times I can be like, just go do it. Yes. Just go. And they're like, but I, this, that, fear. No, just do it. I swear. Like, I'm scared too still every day when I'm doing new stuff all the time. So you just get used to it. You just got to do it with shaking hands, you know? It's okay to be afraid. That is a much more graceful way. I'm like, fuck the plan. Fuck your mood. Follow the plan. You're like, do it with shaking hands. I like that. Very graceful. I think for me, I've had people say,

I think my two annoyances is when people are like, don't be afraid, just do it. I'm like, I am afraid. There's nothing that you're going to tell me that I'm not going to be afraid. So the way that I phrase about it or the way that I rephrase it is it's okay to be scared. Just do it with shaking hands. So when I first did my public speaking thing, I was so afraid. Like I got up there and I'm like, hi. Hi.

But I was like, I'm terrified to be up here. And I started feeling more comfortable just being transparent about it. And then I just got more comfortable as I started speaking. Is that what you're trying to work on right now? Yes, actually. Because I would love, I love podcasts, but there's events that we do sometimes. Like we did a grounds event where we had hundreds of women come out. I'm like, I'm going to put you guys through a workout. That's cool. But I got so nervous when they gave me the microphone. I'm like, it's not a conversation. You know, I'm just like, thanks for coming, guys.

So I want to get better in that sense. I think that's definitely a big goal of mine. How do you think you get better? Well, I hired a speaking coach. Oh, you did? Very first session the other day, which was great. Yes, he's amazing. That's smart.

Because I say filler words a lot. Again, I feel like I've done business in a very scrappy way. And so I just want to get better. But I don't want to lose myself. No. It's like I want to stay me. And so I told the speaking coach, I want to stay authentic to myself. I just want to get better. You know, you can always improve. I think, you know, it's really interesting. Something I can relate to is when I first started making content about business, I was

my content talking about something that I do on a day-to-day basis and it was so bad compared to Alex's content about something that he'd never done before. And I like could not understand why that existed. And then when I

one day I was talking to one of my friends, our friend Trevor Cash, and he was like, there's a very big difference between being able to do the thing and being able to talk about doing the thing. And then I realized this about three years ago, I'd spent my entire career doing business. And now I needed to talk about doing business. And it's a completely different skill. It

It is. And one, I know it sounds so ridiculous to say the difference between the two, but I kind of, I feel like that might be what you're looking at right now, which is like, I recognize that somebody else, like when I told, I would tell Alex a concept I has, he can still, to this day, tell a story, explain the thing in a way better than I can. And-

I'm like, mind blown by it because I'm like, what the hell? I spend all day every day doing this thing and why is it that you say in two seconds it sounds so much better, right? But it's helped me so much to understand it's two different skills because it's also helped me with my team. When people are trying to get promoted, they're like, why

Why is it I'm working harder? Why don't I get promoted? I was like, well, being a manager is not about doing marketing. It's about teaching and communicating marketing, which is a completely different skill. And so, I mean, it makes complete sense to me. It's like you spent this whole time doing this, doing these things, talking to your customers, talking. Now it's a it's just a different skill. That makes so much sense because it's exactly what I did where I would just do it and I

When I would first start doing podcasts, I'd be like, well, how'd you do it? I don't know how to explain it. I just do that because I've been doing it for so long. But I was always nervous about speaking about what I did because – and it was my friend Max. He put me on his podcast. And that was the first time, you know, I ever spoke about business success and money. I was always like, I just do fitness. I make leggings. And people knew that I was – my business was doing well. Yeah. But –

my friends were like, why don't you ever talk about how well the company is doing? And for me, I think I looked at it. I was like, I don't want people to look at me differently in the sense of the community. I was so afraid that they would look at me and be like, I can't relate to you now. And that complete opposite happened because, you know, Max put me on his podcast and I shared a little bit. You know, he's just he's the best friend of ours. He's being bulletproof. So he's like, you know, share a little bit about this. OK.

Okay. But after that, it was a huge moment for me because then I had all the – it turned from people asking me so many fitness questions. Now I had so many women coming to me and they were like, teach me about business. How can I market my brand? How can I start my business? And it was something I was so afraid to speak about. Ended up being –

the biggest blessing because now I have so many women that come to me and just ask for advice and marketing and creative and tips and how do you just start and and I loved it that much more that makes a lot of sense then that that'd be the next thing that you focus on because I think I still have the same that you're talking about which is like someone will be like how did you do that and I'm like you just fucking do you know you just do it but you don't explain it right and

And so for me, I don't know if this helps at all, but studying language has helped me so much. Really? One of my friends, he's a behavioral psychologist and understand the impact of the words you say on how people are able to do things. And it's just behavioral psychology, studying language has helped me just really understand how to articulate the things that I do in a way that is digestible for people. At least I still am very self-conscious about it because I think that when I don't, when I haven't thought through a concept,

I can hear it come out because I'm like, and I over explain and go here and go here and all this way around. I think that the best way that I've learned is just by doing it, watching myself back on camera. So watching the YouTube video, watching the speech I give, watching the short I do, and then being like, you don't know that well enough. Try it again. How can you say that in a simpler way? Yes. And I think oftentimes the people who are best at business are actually the people who aren't the best at explaining it.

You're too busy fucking doing it. You're too busy doing it. Exactly. So it's like we need you to figure it out because we need more of this. You know what I mean? Yes. Yeah. My the other co-founder with with Grounds, he's the one that's been pushing. He's like, how do you have so much knowledge? Like you could help so many more women. He's like my biggest cheerleader, as I call it. And I would tell him, I don't know how to explain it. I just do it all the time. And so he'll be like, OK, he'll try to, you know, extract it out of me. I was like, I just do it. I just I just do it.

And so now I'm trying to like work on how to explain it in a better way that's digestible. Yeah. Because I can do that with clothes. Like I can explain. And this is something that my design director and I do. Like she's very, very technical. And although I know a lot of the technicalities of textiles and how to create fabrics, I'll be listening to her and we'll be on a podcast thing for behind the design. I'll listen to her later.

All right. So what she said, it makes your butt look rounder. And then people are like, ah, I get it. Yeah. And so but it's great because they learn the technical side of it. And then I take that. I just say it in a more digestible way for the girls. Yes, that's exactly the comparison that I made for myself was.

okay, in fitness, I understood biomechanics and physiology and all those things. That's what I went to school for. And I'd be training women and they're like, what? And I used to be like, well, if you do this, your deltoid is going to enact. And then when they did that, and then if you have a bigger rear delt, then that's going to support your, and then,

I had a mandarin. He was like, what the fuck? He was like, they only work out with you because they want to look like you. And I was like, I hated that. I was like, don't objectify me. And then he was like, it's the truth. He was like, tell them the simplicity. Like, you will have a bigger butt. It's just everything always came down to that, right? And so that's what I ended up doing is just like, ah, you're going to get bigger ass. And then they'd be like, oh, amazing. I'll do the exercise. But no, I was like, this will engage your adductors. And if you engage your adductors and your abductors at the same time. And then nobody cared. Yeah.

You're like, what? What's happening? What's going on? What's an adapter? Exactly. Well, I love that for you. That's a really cool new chapter to go into. Yeah, I'm excited. I wanted to go into some rapid fire questions. Yeah. Which are like just quick, whatever's top of mind when I ask you. Oh, gosh. Okay. What's the best business decision that you've ever made? Making pink leggings. I love it. What's the worst business decision you've ever made? Waiting too long to get a warehouse. Really? Yeah, my poor house. It was rough.

I mean, you're having employees in and out. Oh, that's tough. You're having boxes delivered. And I mean, it was, I waited too long. I could have done it earlier. Okay. Here's one that I'm curious about. What's one tool or software that you can't live without? Can't be ground. One. Oh yeah. It can't be ground. No, no, no. I'm all plug. Um,

Yeah. I mean, there's so many, but I think the way that I utilize Slack is unique. How? So I utilize it for my teams, but also for manufacturing. This is something that most fashion teams don't do. They do it through email or they'll do some other platform, the tech pack. We have all those, but we assign like a style number to each one and we're able to OCD organize all of our tech packs. It's like in this channel, we're only talking about this item that comes out like a year and a half. And so

I mean, the Slack gets crazy, but with each manufacturer, we have a certain Slack set up. That way, like, you can completely focus on, I don't know, the one for our seamless manufacturer and every single thing. Like, nothing gets lost. That's actually really interesting. It falls through the cracks. I've never seen anybody be able to get manufacturers for something like that on Slack. They don't like it, but they do it.

We do everything through email. It's like, not with us. No, this is nothing gets lost when you do it the way that we're doing it. That's really cool. What's one thing that you do every day that you believe keeps your business moving forward? I give myself what I call grace and space. So a lot of times, like, our calendars get really crazy. And so I look at my day the day before. And if I, you know, if I can tackle on more, I do. But I look at the day before and if I feel like, okay, I'm getting...

I'm starting to get sick. I'm not feeling well. I'm going through something or like this other project needs something. I will look at my calendar and if I need to move a meeting, which I hate doing because I'm like time. Yeah. I'll remove a meeting if I need to just like take time in order to, you know, mental health, physical health, whatever I need.

That's something that I would say that has kept me going. Grace and space. Grace and space. Did anything happen that triggered you to like, I need to do this stuff for myself? I went through a period, was it 20, I think it was 2019, when I had my company and, you know, we were working.

multimillion dollar company. And I was in San Antonio and my husband wanted me to move to Houston. And this was a really hard moment. Imagine having a multimillion dollar company and no employees because I had three and they were like, we don't want to move to Houston. But they were like, we're so supportive. We're so happy for you, but we don't want to move to Houston. So actually for a short time, I had a multimillion dollar company that I moved to Houston with zero employees. So I had to start from

from scratch. I like quickly was like hiring was like, hey, you you worked at a gym. Great. I think you could be this manager here. You'll figure it out. So trying to build this team in Houston in a new city. And then I had a phone call where I had a friend pass away. And this was when I had shortly after I had moved to Houston.

And I remember it was a time where, I mean, this was like my best friend. Oh, God. I'm so sorry. Thank you. It's okay. There's been a lot of time to process and everything, but...

I think for me being in that moment, I wish I had an answer to give people how to get through trauma when you are an entrepreneur, when you're doing it scrappy, when you're doing it all on your own. And you go through this traumatic experience. And I had just hired this team. They're counting on me. And if I don't show up, the business doesn't grow. So I think for me, I use that moment to kind of, you know, I would...

cry before work and then I would go into work, cry when I got back. And I really learned how to give myself grace and space, I guess, as I call it. So it's like if I'm going through something, letting yourself feel that trauma right away versus holding off and just, you know, I'm going to drown myself in work. It's like work was a great distraction, but I knew that I really had to feel this trauma that I was going through.

Otherwise, it was going to be like this elephant in the room, a monster in the room with you all the time, the boogeyman. And so I really just gave myself the grace and space that I needed, you know. And for me, that really changed my life because now, you know, if I'm going through something not as traumatic as the hunt, hopefully not again, but realizing that giving myself like the mental space that I need or the physical space that I need, it doesn't make me a weak leader by any means. It just means like I need to take a moment.

collect my thoughts, be there for myself mentally, physically. And so I can show up to be like a good leader when I go into work. And I can just say like, you know what? I had my moment where maybe I was crying in the car or whatever, but

I let myself have a moment. I'm going into work. I'm going to show up for my team. And then if I need some more time later to process, I will. But I think that a lot of people, you know, they go through these traumas and then they have a team counting on them. Not everyone. I don't know how I was able to do that, truly. But I feel for the entrepreneurs that, you know, they have everything on their shoulders and they go through something like that.

Maybe I was extremely resilient in that moment and it really helped me become the person I am now. But not everyone has that luxury. You know, not everyone has that resilience. And I'm like constantly thinking, like, what advice could I give to someone in that position? Whether it's like a friend or it's a loved one, it's like going through that type of trauma. I guess what would be your advice?

to someone. I think that's a more common thing than people think. I actually think that your business is a reason for you to wake up the next day. And I think a lot of people go through something traumatic. They lose somebody that they love or they're going through a really hard time. And I actually think what gets people through a hard time is responsibility. Because if nobody is relying on you, like if you have kids,

That's responsibility. If you have a business, that's responsibility. If you have friends counting on you, if you have a community that looks up to you, you feel a sense of duty to rise to the occasion. And so I actually think shying away from it when you're going through a really hard time, even though you want to with every bone in your body, I actually think it makes it worse. I think it's taking the time.

but then not letting it derail your whole life. Okay. I think that's, yeah, that's definitely a beautiful way to put it. Yes. I'm still learning how to express my words, right? Yeah, yeah. No, I'm... Well, whenever I would talk about it, I would just say, you know, I just give myself praise and space is the way that I would...

Yeah. Explain it. But when I talked about it in a YouTube video, a lot of people like I'm going through trauma. Like, how did how do I get through that? I'm like, man, like I just gave myself grace and space to feel those moments. But I agree with you where I think that if I would have just drawn myself in work, it would have taken me years to go through what I did. Whereas now.

You know, it's like I let myself feel it in that moment because I feel like I had to. Otherwise, it's just it's always in your closet. And it's like you're eventually going to have to face it so you can face it now or you can face it later. Yeah. And it doesn't make it easier to face it now or later. It's just and I also do think that work really helps. You know, I got my mind off things for a while and then I would and then I would go back.

There's been a lot of studies on people who get over grieving the fastest and who have the most productive lives after going through something traumatic. And it's the people who don't change their daily life the most. So I found that very interesting because they don't change their daily life the most, but they also don't suppress their emotions. So there's two things, right? Yes. And so I think what you said is actually the recipe for it, which is we acknowledge what happened. We give ourselves time.

to acknowledge the feelings that we have. And then we stick with the commitments that we've made. And, you know, it's kind of like if you want someone to live longer, give them a plant. Seriously, you look at old people who stay alive. If you want somebody to live longer and get through something, a plant even can keep somebody alive for years. I mean, a pet is like light years ahead of that. And then kids and a family is even further than that. And so I think it's like purpose. Yeah, you need purpose. And I think, yeah,

No, I think that's really powerful. And it really, you know, it's interesting because I think whether it's something traumatic people are going through or just going through a hard freaking time. Yeah. I think that's a message everyone needs to hear, which is like you have to.

to take care of yourself and you have to give yourself that space because I think like you're saying so I tell people on my team is like you have to show up for everybody yeah and if you are down then everybody in your company is down exactly so if you need five minutes to just cry in the corner or if you need an hour to get a workout take a walk listen to a podcast like how you show up to your team is going to have more of an impact than that meeting you could have taken during that time exactly I think you're telling the people the right thing I

I think it's just, I mean, it goes against a lot of traditional advice of taking all this time for something. You know, it's actually interesting. Me and Alex talk about a lot, which is like, what would we do if you die? Right. What would we do if you died? And, you know, we both have said, like, I would try my best to keep moving things along, like keep my life because neither of us want the other person to be suffering afterwards. Right. And so I have a friend, the behavioral psychologist, he always is like,

When something really bad happens and I'm feeling really bad, whatever, he always is like, great job sticking to the plan. Great job showing up. Better than laying on the couch. Yeah. Better than indulging. Better than ruminating. Because what is it that we do in that time? It's not like we're just like feeling your emotions is one thing, but ruminating.

on the loss, ruminating on the emotion. I think that sometimes we allow ourselves to spiral and we call it feeling, but it's actually, it's going deep into a place we don't even need to go. So for me, it's like, it's been learning the boundaries of my feelings of I'm, I want to feel my feelings, but I don't want to spiral. I don't want to ruminate and I don't want them to allow and dictate the direction of my life. You know what I mean? It's powerful. Yeah.

I think that was a great last piece of advice you had. That one went deeper than I expected. Thank you. That was really good. I'm always just curious just how people navigate through those things. And, you know, when people ask me, I'm just very transparent. I don't like to give some motivational quote. But I'm always curious. Like during that time, I was like looking online. I was like, how am I supposed to get through this? Am I supposed to take time off? Because I don't have time to take things off. You know, and people are like, oh, I, you know, I'm...

mourning the loss of a loved one, I think, I guess it's someone that did it scrappy too. It's like, I can't afford to take time off. And so I always feel for people when they, they're in those positions, it's like, what is the right thing to do? But I love what I did because I still like, you know, honored this best friend that I had. And, you know, it's like, I still, I went through those emotions in the morning and in the evenings. But then a part of me is like, should I feel guilty for going to work? I was like, you know, you have people that are counting on you. And, you know,

I think it actually helped me is having purpose, having meaning, and then also not hiding away from like the hurt that I was feeling in those moments. It's like, you just got to feel it. But I'm always just kind of curious on other people. So have you gone through trauma before? And how did you navigate through that with all the things that you're juggling? I think a couple of

couple different times in my life. I tend to like to understand things. So whenever I go through anything like a hard time or something that someone might call traumatic, I want to understand and study what's going on with my own psychology. So like I find myself like for me, I love like diving into psychology books, behavioral science, studying all those things to understand why that event created these feelings and what I did to make them better or worse.

And I actually find the most amount of comfort when I'm in those moments and feeling my lowest in researching those things. I think it's probably an illusion of control, but it also is a great way to not overindulge the emotions.

So like I feel them, I'm upset, but then I'm like, I want to understand why does, why does, why am I built like this? Why does this occur? And can I do something to help myself manage it better? And that always has been very empowering for me. So I, that's why I love studying psychology and studying behavior science is because I think it's helped me so much.

Probably also I've had some bad experiences with other people trying to help me. So I probably have some trust issues there, just being real. Oh, that's right. You were, there was someone that tried diagnosing you as all these things, right? Had that happen a few times, yeah. And I'm like, sure, whatever.

But even if so true, I like the outcome of my brain and biology. I just want to understand how to manage it best. Yes. So for me, it's like not labeling things as problems I think has been very helpful as well. And I think...

you know, probably to the next degree is like defining trauma and resilience has been very helpful for me, which is we get to define trauma by trauma is something that changes your behavior permanently. Something happens to you and it doesn't permanently change your behavior. Is it traumatic?

And so then I think of what's resilience. Resilience is how quickly we can get back to our emotional baseline. And so I think I always think about, OK, if something bad happens, I immediately want to change my behavior because I'm scared, angry, sad, whatever it might be. Right. And then I think I literally this is always what goes through my mind. Do nothing. Do nothing. Don't change anything. Don't change anything. Keep living your life. Keep doing something.

And that's often the hardest thing to do is to do nothing or to keep doing everything the exact same way. And if I veer off and I fuck something up for a second, you know, if I indulge in my emotions or I, you know, don't stick to the plan or something, then I just, then I go to resilience, which is how do I get back to baseline? Like, it's not about if I'm going to get back. It's just like resilience is how quickly you do. So if you look at somebody who loses their job, somebody who's really resilient would get back on the market the next day. Be like, you know what? I'm going to find a better one.

And they're back job searching the next day. Someone who's not resilient, they lose their job. Weeks and weeks of sulking, laying on the couch, indulging. They become overweight. They don't go to the gym. Six months later, they start looking for a job. They're less resilient. So I think that defining those terms has helped me a lot in understanding if I've ever allowed anything in my life to traumatize me. Because I guess I speak a bit like that, like if I've allowed it to. It means that I've allowed it to change my behavior indefinitely.

Which also means that I have control over reversing them. So if I now identify that this event eight years ago changed my behavior, I can do something about that today. I don't even need to know why it changed. I just did. I changed my behavior. But I can do something about that today so that every day there forward, it doesn't have power over me. Yes. And I think that's really what I...

I tried to focus on is just not allowing those things to have power over me. But the thing is, we're all human, right? So it's like those things do happen. And that's why I think resilience is so key. It's just like, once you recognize that you catch it, okay, I've been doing this, I've been avoiding this thing. I changed this to how I've done this because I was scared. Then it's just, okay, what do I do differently now? You know what I mean? I think that happens in the macro of like big things happen. Like I definitely had things that happened with my mother when I was a kid, but then I've also had things happen like

you know, even a year and a half, two years ago, someone tried to attack me when I was getting in the car. And then I realized like, I didn't even go to the gym anymore because I didn't want to see that. And then what did I do? Okay. You know what? You avoid that gym and that parking lot at this time because you think someone's going to attack you again. Guess what you're going to do? Go to the gym at that parking lot in that time because you want it to have power over me. Yeah. It's better to like face it head on. Yeah, exactly. And that is not something I recommend or tell anyone else to do. So that's just what I've done for myself.

Yes. So that's definitely a good point. What do you think it is that got you through that time? Aside from the feeling your emotions, getting through it? Did you have support? I did. I think that, you know, the best thing that people always say is, you know, you go to a therapist.

I didn't. I went to the other version of therapy, which is friends. And I think that I had a great group of girls and, you know, we would chat about every day and we would just, you know, I think focus, I guess for me, I would see a silver lining of things. Right. Yeah. Now what happened? I think that was the first time I was like, there's no silver lining here.

But what my friends and I did is we like constantly would share photos just for a little while, not forever. But it's like, hey, like remember this funny memory? This was so funny. And like, oh, I love this photo. Like, look what I found. And I think finding ways to find joy of the memories really helped as well. Not just I think for me, the worst thing I could have done was just lay in bed and just think all day long. I mean, I can't imagine doing that.

I think, you know, work was great to focus my mind on something else. But the friends that I had were wonderful. And, you know, we weren't obsessing over what happened and all the details. It's just like, let's share some good ass memories we had with someone amazing in our lives. And I think that was the time when I just thought of the term, like, you know, grace and space. Give myself grace, give myself space.

So then I can go and my team and give them my best self. And they were also amazing during that time. They kind of knew some stuff that was going on. They were just kind of like, give me space. You know, I'm like, don't bring it up. Please don't talk about it at work. I don't want to. This is not the space. I will have grace and space somewhere else, but not at work.

That's really good. I hope for anyone listening, taking the time to feel your emotion, but then sticking with the commitments that you have and then hopefully finding support. I feel like those three things are like a recipe for getting through a hard time. Yes, definitely. And I mean, there might be someone that needs like they might need time to just like lay in bed. But for me, just I can't imagine doing that.

I think that would have been the worst possible thing for me to do. Yeah, I'll just spiral. Yes. I just laying in bed thinking about all day. I was like, oh, no. I think sticking to, you know, showing up for my team and processing the emotions and what you said, it's like you have to tackle it like right then and there.

But yeah, it's something that a lot of entrepreneurs don't talk about. You notice that? It's like whenever they go through these big life things that are so hard, I guess for small business owners. I was a small business owner at the time. No, I think people in general. I would say, yeah, I guess in general. And so I think for me back then, I wish someone would have spoken up about it. Yeah. So I could have known sort of what to do. I think I did the best thing I did in that position. Yeah.

But I just remember I was like, no one ever talks about what the right thing to do is in those positions. I think a lot of people don't want to think about the stuff that sucks. They don't want to think about the stuff that sucks. They don't want to think about the hard stuff. You know, that's part of why I actually liked making business content in the first place. I like talking about like all the stuff I failed at because it feels like in so many areas of life, especially like the bigger and bigger social media becomes all the stuff. It's like everyone wants it to be this facade of like everything's perfect and it's not. And I'm like...

Like, you know, I see people who run companies as big as yours, as big as mine. And they're like, it's amazing. And there's never. And I'm like, shut the fuck up. I'm like, dude, I like literally fucking you're just fucking selling bullshit. Yeah. It just pisses me off. If you think that you can get and if you think that you get to the top with no pressure, with no bad days, with not wanting to rip your hair out sometimes, with not feeling depressed or sad, like good luck.

You know what I mean? And I just think it's such a bad... But I think it's almost like it comes from culture, which is like, I think, in culture and maybe for even our generation, there was this...

like you just grit through it and like you don't talk about it and like all these things and then became the like perfectionism facade of like everything is beautiful and amazing when Instagram comes out and Facebook and then it's just like I think people just feel weird and then you see some people who do it and it's just not well done. It's like they're just sobbing on video. Right and so it's like you're

You're like, I don't want to be that person who's like sobbing on camera to everybody. And so at least that's what I thought before. It's like, gosh, how do I, how am I transparent and vulnerable at the things I'm going through without being overly, you know what I mean? I think we all go through, I mean, honestly, like if I'm, if I'm being real, like this last month for me has been probably the hardest month of my business in like three years. And it's been, and then I struggle with like, how do I,

You know, record, I make my podcast and I say like, oh, it's been a hard month, you know, but you're like, how much do you share? Because at the same time, you know, same with my team, like how much do I share? It's always, you're just trying to find the line of like sharing enough so that people don't think it's about them.

Like it's, you're not the reason I'm upset. And sharing enough so that people can take the lessons that you're learning in real time. Sharing enough so people don't feel alone. But not sharing so much that people feel like you are emotionally dumping on them. You know what I mean? Because I think that's the line that leaders especially can't cross, which is like your team, your audience, like they're not a place for you to just like dump your emotions on. Right? Yes.

And I say that as somebody who's been emotionally dumped on and didn't like it, you know, like, involuntarily. But I feel like that's kind of, like, penetrated through the culture. I don't know. I think a lot of people are being better about it now. But I still think people that are, like, at, like, doing nine figures in their business and beyond, I mean, how many people are actually sharing, like, what it's like to go through? And I think maybe part of that's because there's such a stigma with, like, what do you have to complain about? You know what I mean? Yeah.

And you're like, actually, it gets a lot harder. It's so much harder than you think. Yeah. So, yeah, I think you speaking and doing more of that and learning and being able to get that message out there, that's really important. It's not a lot of people want to do that. They just want people to clap for them. Yes. Give them their likes.

Post the highlight reels only. Yeah. And that's why I love you and Alex. I feel like y'all's podcast. I know we talked about this earlier, but I never listen to other podcasts. You know, you know, people like, oh, a mentor. What person do you listen to in the first couple of years? Like nobody, because I would try to listen. And these people are just blurting out like, oh, this is, you know, I just fly on a private jet everywhere. And these are my motivational quotes. And I was like, I am getting nothing out of this. I can't relate to this. I'm bored.

I just feel like it's like a bunch of bullshit. And so I was like, I'm not, I don't need to read books. I don't need a mentor, nothing. Now, two years ago, one of my friends was like, you should check out Alex Ramos. He does fitness as he, as we call it, fitness business stuff. Would love it. So I started listening to him. Loved, loved the podcast on Spotify. I would do it in the morning when I'm doing my makeup. My husband would come and be like, is that Alex? And my guy's like, every morning. And so loved, loved his show.

And so I told my friend, I was like, he's great. I'm actually listening to him consistently because he doesn't bullshit. He just speaks his mind. He's not afraid. He fumbles on his words. He cusses. I like him. Yeah. And then he goes, you should check out his wife. And I was like, he has a wife? And so then I looked you up and I started listening to your show. And I was like,

she's amazing. I think both of you were so needed in the industry because there are a lot of motivational speakers. And I went to an event one time and I just felt like a lot of the speakers on stage, I just didn't feel anything from them. It's just a bunch of what you said. It's just like a bunch of facades and bullshit. I hate to say. Yeah. Then you find certain people that you listen and you just like,

connect you get it you feel something yeah and that's what I liked about you and Alex is you're talking about the real shit and that's what thank you I've loved having you on this has been fun I don't even know what we talked about but all sorts of things I hope we went all over the map yeah we did it was fun