"White-knuckling Through Life, Babe!" Listening to Yourself
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In professional wrestling, who doesn't love a hot tag when the patient hero finally swoops in to challenge the villain in reverse events?

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Welcome to More Better with Stephanie and Melissa. A podcast where we stop pretending to have it all together and embrace the journey of becoming a little more better every day. And start being real. No, that's the real world. The MTV show that we all watched. Remember Puck? That's Melissa Fumero. And that's Stephanie Beatrice. We're your hosts for this ride into hell or wherever it takes us. I'm not sure what's going to happen. I don't know. We're going to find out. More, more, more, more, more about it. More, more.

Welcome to the show. Did I just blow out the speakers in your Honda Civic? Get ready, baby. This is a wild ride you're on. We're doing it. The thing is real. So we know each other from thousands of years ago when we were on a little show you may have watched called Brooklyn Nine-Nine. Nine-Nine. Nine-Nine. We wanted to do this podcast because we found in our friendship discussions a lot of time we were evolving. I wanted to say devolve.

Evolving, but that's not right. Sometimes. Our conversations do devolve. But they were evolving into each of us asking for advice on different things in our lives that we just didn't feel like we were really handling well. Yes. Lots of dressing room talks. Lots of checking in with each other. And I think just a little discovery of like, oh, we're two people that are always a little bit scattered. But always trying. Like working on ourselves a little. And like trying to just...

Be better. Just like a little bit. Just a little bit. But we also don't have time to be trying to like take a pottery class and stuff. We're very busy. Oh.

As many of our friends are busy, if they have a job or trying to get health care or have people in their lives they have to take care of, have to eat, have to show up for people, you know what I mean? Take care of people, take care of little people. And that's where we kind of came up with this idea of like, well, if we're doing it and if most of our friendships are also us doing that with other friends, then why don't we do it in kind of a community forum so that we can all get a little bit more better together? Because...

On top of everything else, on top of this, like, wanting to go on this, you know, eat, pray, love moment. I can't eat, pray, love. I don't have time to eat, pray, love. I have to, like, eat, pray, love for my family. That's literally all I thought about when I read that book was, like, who has the time?

Nobody has the time. Nobody has the time to do that. I can barely get out of my house in the morning, like, as a whole person. So, like, essentially we wanted to do this conversation so that you guys can have a space where you feel like you listen to your friends talk and then walk away and feel like maybe just a little bit you feel like a little bit more better of a person. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe.

Maybe you laughed a couple times during this podcast. Yeah, you know what? And if that's all that happens. Then that's pretty good. That's pretty good. We'll take it. Yeah. Would you, why don't you do, for those people. Sorry, I'm sorry again. That's how she is in real life though. I just want you to know that's how she is. She just like reboots herself sometimes.

So much. There may be people listening that don't know us and the show. And so. Oh, well, then how did you come aboard on the crazy train? I don't know. Crazy train of life. Where are you from, Steph? I'm from Texas. I was born in Argentina. My parents are Colombian and Bolivian.

Shout out to the immigrant community. What about you? I am from New Jersey. Oh. First generation, daughter of immigrants. Oh, beautiful. Or refugees, I guess is the more proper. That's correct. More better name for Cubans. By the way, we know this about each other. We're just doing this like we're on a first date for you. Yeah. Because some of you are on a first date with us right now. So it's a little bit about who we are. And we're both actors. And we met on a show. Mm-hmm. And...

We said the rest. Yeah. That's good. How are you doing? Are you fully caffeinated? Getting there. Yeah. Melissa drinks a lot of coffee. She's Cuban. She drinks a lot of coffee. So much coffee. It never keeps me up at night. When I was pregnant for the first time, it was literally the first thing I asked my doctor was, how much coffee can I safely drink during this? I don't care about anything else. And then you were like, I don't fucking care what you say. I'm Cuban. I'm drinking as much as I want. Yeah.

I'm pretty sure my body metabolizes it. It'll be fine. You know what? And it was. Yeah, it was. So the first big thing that we wanted to talk about was listening to yourself because it's hard. It's very hard. Hard to do. Hard to do. We're each going to talk about when we've succeeded or failed. God, it's so hard, isn't it? For some reason, you just don't want to do it. No. You hear the voice in your head and you go, I'm not going

to listen to you. You're smart. No, you're not. No, you're not. It's been a journey of trying to figure out how to do that. It's really hard when you have... As women, as artists, like, it's very, very difficult because there's a lot of things in your life that are telling you, like, don't listen to your intuition, honey. Don't worry about that part of yourself. We just need you to do this. Yeah, just ignore that red flag, baby. So, yeah. I've been thinking a lot about that lately. Other than that, I'm like,

you know, just white knuckling through life, babe. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Just white knuckling it. I am on a new antidepressant. It's working great. This is day four. That's fantastic. So we'll see how that all goes. That's a little bit of more better. Pray for me, everybody. Pray for me. But good for you for doing it, doing the thing. So, Steph, can you remember the very first time or a time in your life when you listened to yourself or didn't listen to yourself in like a major way? I don't know.

Did I just like cause anxiety in your body? Yes, you were whole spine just went brrrr. Everything went straight. My butt clenched. There was, I'm not going to name names, so don't ask me to. But I'm going to absolutely tell you who it is after the episode. No, I'm just kidding. I won't. No, I will. So I used to do a lot of theater. Yes. I did a lot of theater before I moved to L.A. and L.A. And...

I did a production that was a really big Shakespeare production. And I had never done Shakespeare before. I had sort of always wanted to, but I didn't really feel like Shakespeare was for me. It was very hoity-toity. But the good Shakespeare I had seen was electric, phenomenal, alive. The language felt so, like, sexy and real. And, like, everything just felt like, ah! So I really wanted to do Shakespeare, and I got a really, really small part in this very big production. And in the play...

What was the play? I can't tell you because that would give away the person's name. Okay, okay, okay. There's a lot of like fisticuffs and like grabbing of people in these Shakespeare plays. Fisticuffs is a great word, by the way. Isn't it great? I threw it in there for you. And we were in rehearsal in this big rehearsal hall and like,

These are huge plays, right? Shakespeare would write these plays for like... There's a ton of people in them. So all the actors are sitting around the rehearsal hall, the director's directing, the leads are leading. You know, I'm like...

Deep background, basically. I'm like literally holding a lantern or a spear or whatever. And there was this part where in the fisticuffs, I was like down on the ground and someone had to pull me up to standing. And then I had to pretend to run away and they had to grab me and pull me back. Now, it just so happened that the person that had to grab me and pull me back was also the Miana that I was dating at the time. Okay. Okay.

So we're in rehearsal and I'm acting my balls off because I'm like, I'm just spirit carrier number three. I want to be in a big show someday. So I'm just giving it everything. I'm like, yes, I'm like crying, weeping, you know, just like doing the whole thing. I'm like, I mean, there wasn't any snot because it would not have been character appropriate, but I was like desolate on the ground, a maiden in despair. Yeah. Yeah.

And so he pulls me up off the ground and my arm is like, that didn't feel so great. And we had had like lessons on how to, right? How to do shit properly and safely. And then I start to run. Like I take the exit, right? And I'm like running. Like I would really run away from someone because he's supposed to let go. And he held on so tight that my arm like, like I, my body jerked back and like,

It was like a big move. Like, and everyone is watching. Everyone's watching the scene, right? And I hear people go like, and like it hurt. It hurt. And after the scene finished, like the next scene was about to start. And I like went over to the fight choreographer and I was like, hey, he like kind of hurt me.

And so the fight choreographer grabs the lead and he's like, hey, so how can we figure this out? You know, there was an accident that happened today. I think like you guys need, he starts like directing him or whatever. And the lead is like, well, she shouldn't have run. What? And I was like, oh.

Like I couldn't. No, sir. But also like at the time I was just, I didn't know. And he's like this big star. So I felt like, I really feel so stupid right now even telling it. I was just like, I was like, okay, yeah. He was like, I remember he was like, well, she's, we're not, this isn't real. So if she's really going to run, then I have to hold on to her. Or no, he said something like,

He was like, if she's really going to run, I have to hold onto her that tight. And the fight choreographer was like, I don't understand what you're saying. Because, like, she has to run. No, bro. Yeah, that's not what we... So, like...

Then, you know, not only is this like a work thing because like I'm in a work environment. Everyone's like eavesdropping on the conversation also. And like I look like the idiot because I'm just, I have nothing to say. I've brought over the choreographer and like. And then so I took a little bike ride after rehearsal and I was like biking and crying while I biked. And like, you know, tears streaming. And then I see my phone ring, my flip phone at the time. So I pick it up. I pull over and I pick it up.

And it's him. And he was like, what happened today? And I was like, I started crying. And I was like, you know, I just think it was like really wrong that you did that. And like he did it in front of everyone. And I just felt really embarrassed. And like, and I was trying, I was really trying to be like. To stand up for yourself. To stand up for myself. And he talked me out of it. And I was with that person for eight years after that. Wow.

Here's my wife, baby. I wish I could go back in time and say to that girl, like, you do not need this person's approval. You don't need his. You don't. Just because he's done more than you, just because you think he's a better actor than you, just because he's older than you, it doesn't make him better than you. I wish I would have.

And I knew it. I knew it in my heart. I knew it. That is so hard. Like I was crying on that bike ride. I was like, how could I be dating someone that would do something like that to me? And he talked me out of it. He talked me out of it. Yeah.

I did really learn from that. Like, there were a lot of red flags and it did take me eight years to get there, but I got there. So, like, if you're listening to this and you're in something right now and you're like, I just, I gotta just stay in it because it's gonna get better. And, like, I've put so much time into it already. And if you are feeling those red flags, like, just...

Get out now, like if you can, because those red flags are not going away. They're just going to keep popping up. Conviértete en un nuevo cliente de DraftKings. Usa el código MyCultura y anota un golazo. Mira qué gran jugada. Usa el código MyCultura, apuesta cinco dólares y gana 150 dólares en apuestas de bono

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When faced with challenges, I have learned there is no option but to overcome it. You've got to lace up your kicks and keep charging forward with love and positivity because life keeps happening, baby, but you got this.

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Okay. So, Mal, your turn. Oh, I did just think of one when I was younger. I was in high school and I was a dancer growing up. And it was my senior year of high school. And we had like senior prom or something. But we also had some like big rehearsal or something for a recital or a show. Because we also did like musicals. Yeah.

I don't remember what it was specifically, but I was leaving something early. And it caused with the director and her son like a drama that I was leaving early. To go do your other thing. To go do my other thing, my personal thing.

thing that was like a big like high school moment. Yeah. And I even got ready at the dance studio and made all my friends pick me up in the party bus at my dance studio, like tried to make every accommodation to like make everyone happy. And then I didn't. And they kept me a little longer. And I feel like there was a moment where I got

Kind of annoyed. But I was trying to be quiet about it. But, like, obviously they clocked it. And then I think it was the next day, the sun got in my face and, like, yelled at me about it. And I just... He yelled at you? He yelled at me. Melissa Fumero. And I took it. And I, like...

Was like, yeah, I shouldn't have done that to everyone. I shouldn't have, you know... I cannot imagine you doing that. I cannot imagine you doing that. I just cannot imagine it. Now I would. Yeah, you would... But...

Yeah, I just, I don't even remember what I said. Like, you know, where you just, you're so taken aback. And I just was, and then I felt all the shame and all the guilt. And I was like, yeah, I let everybody down. I fucked up everything for everyone. And I shouldn't have done, I should have just skipped it. I should have just skipped the prom or like skipped the thing and everything.

But then also there's that part in your brain. I also remember that tug in my brain of being like, no, you're still a person. You're still a kid. You still, right? And that's the part that I wasn't listening to. And it felt awful for the longest time until years later. I remember looking back on that and being like, that was so messed up. The tug in your brain. The tug in your brain. That's such a good way to put it. Like that little voice in your head that's going, no, you didn't do anything wrong. You're allowed to have things for yourself. You're allowed to have...

these big kid moments. Like, you know, and I had the best time at that thing, whatever. I think it was senior prom. It was either senior prom or like a weekend prom thing. I had the best time and like all these like core memories were made and I felt shame about it for the longest time because I made them angry.

So stupid. Not you stupid. They're stupid. Like, I was just, like, a teen. And then the way that, like, rocks your confidence and you're insecure about certain things. Especially when you're the kind of person that wants to show up for other people and, like, prides themselves on doing a good job. Yes. And I recognize that, like, I have a little bit of, like, a people pleaser kind of thing. Like, you know, I think it's gotten healthier as I got older. But, like, yeah, I want to, like—

Like, I think I'm better now at, like, I want to make everyone happy, but, like, also still protect my happiness. Whereas when I was younger, that was definitely, like, not as balanced, which I think is probably true for a lot of people. I think, you know, what's interesting is, like, when does that happen? When does the shift happen, right? Because, like, I don't know. I cannot remember the shift happening. I don't remember the shift happening. But I remember feeling like...

This feels wrong. This feels like the tug. I remember feeling the tug. Yeah. I think for me it happened in college. I was like of my most confident in college. Like when we were first year of Brooklyn and I was feeling so scared that entire first season and convinced I would get fired or fuck it up. Yeah.

At a certain point when I realized, like, this is going well. And I think I'm, like, doing okay at this. Yeah. And remember trying to remind myself, like, just try to be that girl in college. Aw. Like, try it. Like, where did we lose her? Yeah. And, like, how do we get back to her? And I feel like it's been a journey since then. Oh, that's interesting. Of, like, feeling more like her. Because I was – I think my first year of college I had an incredible acting teacher. Yeah.

that like really believed in me you were like Tobey Maguire in that Spider-Man where he's just like walking down the street giving everybody yeah yeah not me I was working like Ethan Embry really what's that

What's that movie called where they all work in the video store? Empire Records. Empire Records. Not the video record store. I was like Ethan Embry. I was like not—has same hair, same outfits. I was not doing my best in college. I guess like one of the things that happened during Brooklyn was me getting more confident and listening to myself because like first—

And you know this. First, like, four seasons, I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what I'm doing. And then by season seven and eight, it was like, oh, I know what I'm doing. I know what I'm doing. I've clocked these hours. I've listened to these jokes. I've read these scripts. I know these people's rhythms. I know what I'm doing. I know where the cameras are supposed to be. I know how something's shot. I know what I'm doing. I don't have to feel stupid anymore. And I think

One of the things that comes from being good at something is that you find your confidence in it. Like, that's why, I think that's why we as parents are trying to introduce our kids to a lot of different stuff because we're like, I don't know what you're going to like and what you're going to feel like is you, but I want you to feel like you in the world. Yeah. And I think by the end of Brooklyn, not, I would not say at the beginning, but by the end of Brooklyn, I felt like me in the world as an actor. Yeah. As a person. And I think for me, that translated really well.

a lot into my everyday life. Like, I just feel, like, more confident as a person, even though I still have stuff that's, like, antidepressants. But, you know, I'm like, you know, I still have stuff. I mean, I still have, that's why we started this podcast, because we have stuff. It's so interesting to me, though, because I remember in the beginning, especially being like, man, Steph is so confident. So, you know what I remember? I remember at the Golden Globes. I felt like I was a mess.

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But we were at the Golden Globes and I was not playing anything cool. I was very scattered, very like

holy shit, I can't believe we're here. Holy shit, I can't believe who's here. And I remember just like my eyes keep going to you and being like, man, Steph just looks so calm and like she deserves to be here. Meanwhile, do you remember my plastic insert on my dress? My chicken cutlet was like sliding down my dress. I got sweaty and just like sliding down my gown.

Also, can I tell our super bonding moment that night that I think made us become close friends? Was we went to the bathroom together because we both realized at some point that we could not get our dresses off alone. And so we were like...

I don't even remember who said it, but it was like, maybe when we have to pee, we should go together. And that's what we did. And we both went into a stall and I took my dress completely off and you held it up as I peed. That was a heavy dress. It was so heavy. I had welts in my shoulders. When we won, I immediately started crying and I was like a hot mess. And you were so...

collected. And I was like, how is she doing that? You know how I did that? Yeah. Because I was like, all of this is like, it's just so fleeting. But that you could be that president and have that realization. I was like in the stratosphere of just like freaking out and anxiety. I just kept thinking like, this might never happen again. I might never ever go to this again. So like, I want to remember all of it because like,

How many times in your life do you get to go to the Golden Globes? It was incredible. That's really funny to think about that time because I feel, for me as your friend, like, it feels like you've always been a model of confidence to me. And somebody who really does, like... Don't cry. Cry, cry. I just really feel like you've always been, like... I don't know. You were really... Especially on Brooklyn, you had experience before on camera. And, like, you just...

You just knew what you were doing. You were, like, doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were just doing it. And you were, like, you know, even sometimes with Dan Gore, our showrunner, I was very afraid of Dan for a very long time. Way too long. I was afraid of Dan in the beginning. Little kids, like, believe in Santa, like, too long. Like, I was afraid of Dan for too long. But, like, you were not. Maybe you were on the inside. A little bit, yeah. But, like, I think you were just, like, I want to try this. I want to do this. And you were very, like—

direct with your opinions about stuff and like sometimes to the point where you guys would spend a long time changing scenes because you and Andy didn't feel like something was right and you would be like oh yeah fighting for things that you were really like the Jake and Amy scene yeah and you were like really I mean again like you were listening to yourself like you were internally like I'm protective over this character that I didn't create but I helped build

You know, like that stuff. Because I felt like the Jake and Amy stuff because it felt like it was a relationship and it was love and it was real that I was like, oh, this I know how to do. But then every time I had a joke line, for the longest time. We were like, Joe, Joe will truly help us. I would be like, fuck, they gave me a joke line. Oh, no. I would just, I wanted just setups. That's so funny. I wanted just to be able to lob things to people. Oh, my God. I was dying for jokes. I was like starving for jokes. Oh, my God, no. The joke lines gave me so much anxiety. Yeah.

And then I would just do them all different ways because I didn't know what I was doing. And then later I learned, oh, that's kind of the way you do comedy anyway. Yeah, that is the way you do comedy. You just try things until it sticks. But it came for me of a place of, I don't know, please don't fire me.

Okay, so let's discuss. Let's digest. I wonder if you feel like you learned anything from today's discussion. Class, did you? We're sort of in a class. It's like a class. You're a 30-minute drive to work. Forum, if you will. Yeah, forum. Did you learn anything in the forum? That I should always listen to myself. A plus, you passed the class. Yay!

Speaking of class, like what's the best advice you've ever gotten about listening to yourself, like from somebody else? Oh, I don't know that I can think of any good advice I've ever gotten from someone about listening to myself. I feel like it's something I've just sort of stumbled through in life and like...

that like, I should not ignore my gut. I should not ignore my intuition and, you know, those little feelings inside. How about you, Steph? I mean, in terms of like, advice, like direct advice about listening to myself, I have a work one which is on Brooklyn. Yeah.

I remember being very, very nervous to try to improvise because I did not. I was like, oh, I remember trying it once early on and I was like all sweaty and stuff. And I turned to Andy, Andy Sandberg, and I was like, oh, this makes me so nervous. I hate doing it. He was like, oh, you just need to do it more. You just need to do it more. Try to improvise more.

And he was right. I mean, I was afraid to try the things I thought were funny because I thought, well, what if nobody laughs? And he was like, no, you just have to throw stuff, like try it and see if it sticks. And yeah.

Consequently, I try it all now. And, you know, half of it isn't any good at all. But I still get hired. So I'm doing something okay. And that's the thing. And I feel like that's such good advice for lots of things. Yeah. It's also like advice you can pass to other people. Like, just try. Just try. It's not as precious as you think it is. Right. Easier said than done. You'll get better at it the more times you do it. And I think it's the realization, too, that like it's okay.

It's okay to not know. Like, I've found a lot of comfort in that, too, of when people are just like, I don't know what it is. Let's try some stuff. Or, you know, that – I remember the first few times I heard that at work on the show. This joke's not working. I don't know what it is. And then trying things, I was like, oh, sometimes people just don't know. Don't know, yeah. But, like, that's –

It's really hard to be like, I don't know. Yeah. You want to say you have an answer. You want to say you have like... But I think saying I don't know is like actually really listening to yourself too. Yeah. It can be. Yeah. Steph, this was really fun. Oh. Do you feel a little bit more better? I think I do. Yeah. I feel a little bit more better too. Un poquito más mejor. Un poquito más mejor.

Thanks for joining us. Yeah. Whoever's out there. Yeah. We are really excited about the rest of the season because I think, you know, we're just trying to get a little bit, a little bit better. A little bit. Even if it's just these conversations with each other. Bye. Bye. Bye.

This episode was edited by Isis Madrid and engineered by Sean Tracy and features original music by Madison Davenport and

and Halo Boy. Our cover art is by Vincent Remis and photography by David Avalos. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. See you next week, suckas! Bye!

Hola mi gente, Rosalind Sanchez here from He Said, Ella Dijo. And although I like drama in my telenovelas, when it comes to real life, I prefer a drama-free casa. Thanks to Fabuloso. Its remarkable lavender scent lingers like a longing glance. And with two times more active ingredients to take the drama out of any mess, you'll be shouting gracias.

Actors understand from experience that we are only as good as our supporting cast members. Working together is how we bring out the best in each other. Well, more about drama here, and whether it's working on TV, films, or important causes, I understand the importance of being present and being prepared.

like with State Farm agents, ready to support you when you need it, however you choose. That's the State Farm way. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.