Ep. 113: When the Elk ARE Bugling
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As a guide and hunter, I've spent thousands of days in the field. This show is about translating my hard-won experiences into tips and tactics that'll get you closer to your ultimate goal, success in the field. I'm Remy Warren. This is Cutting the Distance.

Welcome back to the podcast, everyone. It is currently the last day of September, which means one awesome thing. One more week of elk rutting knowledge on Cutting the Distance podcast. I dubbed this Elk Month, and I've been trying to divulge all my elk hunting, bugling, archery skills knowledge to you. So we've talked about a lot of scenarios that come up in the elk woods, but what about that scenario when it's bugle city, when things are going great, maybe it's peak rut, and

The elk are super active. You go, well, that's awesome. That's what we want. And that is very, very, very true. But there are a few problems that you run into. When the elk are going crazy, when those bulls come into heat, there's a lot of cows around, there's a lot of commotion, and it can be very difficult to call a bull to your location. So what we're going to do is we're going to talk about this week how to make those right moves when things are going off. How do you stalk in the herd past other elk?

When do you know that your calling is not going to call in a bull? And what moves can you make when there is a hot cow around and you're trying to call a bull out of that herd? But before we do that, I want to share the story of a recent hunt that I just took with my trad bow and had Bugle City all around me. So this past weekend, I was out chasing elk and I had just the weekend to hunt because I had a lot of work things that I had to get done.

And so I went out and I'm like thinking to myself, man, it's going to be busy. This, you know, just all the things that you think, oh, I got one day. And then I decided to bring my trad bow. I don't know. Here's, I like to,

I like to mix it up. I kind of see myself as just somebody that loves to hunt. I love to hunt with everything, whether it's a recurve, longbow, compound bow, shotgun, rifle. Like I just, if there's an open season, I like to do it. And I just had taken a really big bull with my compound bow. So I'm like, man, I definitely know where I'm at now. I'm not going to, not going to best that bull probably ever. But I thought, well,

If I bring my trad bow, then I can increase my success by lowering my standards and still feel really good about myself. And I didn't think I was like, I probably I'm not going to even run into much. So I get up to my spot and bugle in the kind of early morning light. Don't hear anything. Go over the other side and bugle. And sure enough, I hear a bugle way, like way back there. OK, so I start glassing.

And I pick out a herd up at the top of this mountain, kind of in this little burn. I'm like, sweet. So I gather up my stuff and I'm just like, I'm going to, I know that they're going to, they're going to move out of there pretty quick. So I wanted to get there as fast as possible. So I'm, I'm hustling there. I don't know. They're probably two miles or more away, maybe a couple thousand feet elevation gain. Like they were up their ways where I was at. There was no snow where they were at was pretty much borderline snowpack just from the night before. So I start hustling up there.

And as I'm making my way up there, the hill kind of blocks any sound that I would be hearing any bugles. And I'm going, I'm like, all right, this is, I'm hoping they're still up there. And I heard one bugle. I'm like, sweet. Okay. They're still in here. And then all of a sudden off on my right side, as I'm going up the canyon, the wolves start howling. And I'm thinking this sucks, man. Like these, what's the deal? The elk are definitely going to shut up. It's not going to be good right now.

And so the wolves are howling maybe 400 yards on the ridge on my other side. The elk are probably 300 yards above me, maybe 400. I'm just like smack in the middle. All right. So I get up to the point where I can kind of see and I pop over bugle and I get a response back and it kind of actually surprised me because I thought, well, they're going to quiet down with these wolves going off. And so the bull bugle is back and he's up a little bit in the timber more and there's a bunch of cows still in the burn. So,

I watch them and I think this, I know for a fact, I called a little bit trying to draw something down, but it just wasn't that scenario. I need the scenario where I'm in tighter because this bull's got a lot of cows and they're probably, I'm hoping there's other bulls around, but at this point, only one was bugling. So,

I go, I start, I work around the mountain. I get up and I'm just at this point, nearly jogging, trying to catch up, trying to cut them off at the top where I know once they get into that timber, then I can get closer. I have a little bit more of an advantage than being in that wide open. And so I get in and make a sound, a bugle and bull bugles. Once I get up in that timber, like in there, I'm like, all right, sweet.

And this is one of, this is a scenario that happens like when bulls are, are in a herd and there's maybe a hot cow or whatever. It's like rutting just bulls. Now there's multiple bulls bugling and they're just like moving with the herd. The herd is moving and I'm moving with them.

So I keep going and getting set up. I'm trying to self film it, which, so it's like, here, here, let's do some difficult stuff. I'm going to go elk hunting. Cool. That's fine. That's one challenge. And then I'm going to take a traditional bow. Cool. That's another one. And now I'm just going to self film it. And like, I'm a glutton for punishment. What can I say? But I enjoy it. It was like, I'm out here. I'm having a good time. This is what I like to do. So we, so I, I go, um, around the mountain and I'm getting into the elk.

It's one of those things where it's like, I'm a hundred yards. I'm screaming. Bulls are screaming. Three or four bulls are firing off. There's cows moving around and the bulls are pushing and doing their thing. And, but nothing's coming into me. And generally when you get into a herd like this, oftentimes I've had good success, like making a lot of commotion and then just a satellite type bull kind of funneling through and checking things out. Like, oh, I wasn't part of the party. Let's what's going on over here and getting a shot. I've killed many elk that way.

But on this particular day, it's like all every bull I've seen is a pretty mature bull, like a nice six by six. I saw some six by sevens, just like some of the best bulls I've ever seen in the area. And I'm thinking, what the heck is going on here? And so at one point, I'm 150 yards away and there's four bulls together, all picked a little tree and they're all raking their antlers for like five minutes.

Okay. So finally a couple of all the cows in between me and them moved off and there's one still raking. I'm like, I'm just going to rush in there and get him. And, uh, so I do, I do that and I go in, I start closing in. I'm probably 45 yards. He's raking on the other side of the tree. I've left my camera behind on this point. I actually had a GoPro and I just have a, like a hate relationship with GoPros because every time I want them to work, they don't.

So I was like recording with that and realized it wasn't even recording, which would have been cool. I get in on that bull and and then he starts to walk off. So I call and another bull starts to circle within range. Thirty five yards, 30 yards closing. And I'm like, oh, perfect. I'm going to this is this is done.

And yet every time the bull stops, he stops with his vitals behind a tree, walks, stops vitals behind a tree and like circles to try to get my wind. But by this point, the other bulls are now pushing the cows off moving. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, man, this is like, how many encounters do you get? Like just if I had a compound bow, I would have shot the bull that was raking it 50 yards when I had an opportunity and probably would have shot this other bull while he was moving. Cause I would have been able to, but yeah,

So I'm like, all right. So I just keep following him. And now they're in this like big open basin. I get in the trees. I've got cows in front of me, maybe 20 yards. I'm bugling. Bulls are bugling all over. I'm like, I'm probably 15 minutes away from killing a bull. And then I'm like, all of a sudden they start funneling past me, maybe 45, 50 yards. I'm like, not running, but running in a way. It's like, okay, are they just chasing a hot cow or nope? They're spooked, but they're coming toward me.

I'm like, what the hell is going on here? And just the whole herd, a hundred and something elk, lots of bulls. Just, I'm like, I was so close to just killing a bull. I mean, they were working. At some point, a bull would have walked within, you know, recurve range. And I hear voices. And I'm like, what the heck? Like, this just sounds like, this is like,

I'm thinking now I definitely heard that because no hunter would just like be upwind of elk and then just like yelling and laughing and having a jolly good time. I mean, I was having a good time, but not like that.

And I'm like, so then all of a sudden I see like some people and I start glassing them up and I realized they were just like backpacking. You're just like in a random, it wasn't, it's not like a backpacking spot. Like what are these people doing camping out here? Just, I think they heard the commotion of the elk and I could hear them being like, well, what's that? And just had no, probably never seen an elk before and hear all this like crazy noise and can't figure out what's going on. And of course the wind is blowing straight down from them to the elk.

And the fact that they were just like yelling, like, oh my gosh, that's weird. What's going on? And the elk decided to run off. So now I'm like, okay, that sucks. That's what happens on a weekend. Sometimes, you know, you just run into people. Everybody's, I mean, it's cool to see people enjoying the outdoors. So, hey, whatever. So the elk run down the mountain.

And now I'm like, all right, well, that's over, but I'm going to, you know, they were still bugling and doing their thing. So I decided to just kind of go in the direction that they were going, not knowing if I could get them to pick back up again. I get about halfway down. I find cut tracks or I can see some serious elk move through here and just start following it.

And then it's about mid-morning at this point. And then I get like this whiff of elk smell. All right, we're in the zone. Bugle, nothing. Move down, get the smell again. I'm like, it's stronger now. Bugle. And one bugle is like right below me, maybe 45 yards. So creep in. I've got two six points down there. They're bugling. Other bulls bugling down the thing. I mean, it's just a bugle city. And so I just like...

I get into position bull walks about I don't even know 30 something yards probably maybe closer and just too much thick stuff no shot it's like dang it and then they move off and now it's same thing chase again so now I start moving in I'm creeping in bugling and I've got bulls down there I've got probably 100 cows to deal with and I start just like pinpointing a bugle moving toward it as they're kind of doing their thing shuffling around moving around

So, um, it's at one point I ended up having to crawl past about 10 cows within 30, 40 yards. The wind's good though. So I just keep crawling past, get around them, then move in again. Got a bull raking a tree for about five minutes. Cows in between me and him crawl past those cows get to about 45 to 60 yards. Well, it's 60 and then 45 as he moves off and just no shots for me. I was like, man, if I had my compound bow today, I've been done deal. But yeah,

And that was the herd bull. Actually, that was the biggest bull that I'd seen. So then they all move off reposition again. Now I'll say it's like for a timestamp, it's like 2 PM. These, these elk have been bugling all day long. This is as good as it gets. And, and so by the end of the day, I had had 10 opportunities. Like I would say had 10 bulls within normal bow range. I just didn't have a shot.

But in all six points are better. So it was just like an incredible day. So later on that day, they started funneling out into this, like the small pines back into the burn. And at this point I'm like, all right, I just got like, I just got to go. There's so many cows and I'm thinking, how do I get past them? But I've had similar scenarios where it's like, you know, if I was timid and I

Just like, okay, I can't get to that bull because these cows, I didn't want to blow them out, but like they're pretty, they're pretty fired up and they were all kind of getting shuffled around anyway. So I knew if one cow saw me, it's not a big deal. Like she would run and I would just bugle. So I go into the little pines with the elk and I'm just like, there's elk over here, cows calling and I'm just screaming, bugling, bugling.

And every time like there would be a cow 15 20 yards away She'd see me and I just scream with the bugle and i'm moving through the trees like i'm an elk And i'm moving past cows to get to where these bulls are running around Get out and here comes the herd bull. I bugle and I move in I see his antler tips in the trees and i'm just like Getting in the herd like the elk. I felt like I was just another elk in the herd screaming moving past elk shuffling elk around It's all good

Had that big bull walk out 50 yards, stand there broadside. I'm like, nah, it's just too far for the bow that I've got. And I figured I'd just get another shot. And so he moves off, pushes the cows, and then they all end up pushing out into this big open. And it's like, okay, kind of game over from that point. But it was one of the most incredible days chasing elk with a bow in hand for me. And one thing that I thought was pretty cool, and I was really glad that I ended up bringing that bow that day because...

If I had my compound bow, I probably would have shot a bull first thing in the morning. I would have been stoked, but I wouldn't have had that experience of interacting with this elk in that way where it's like, I'm just another bull in the herd, just running things around and just getting in there and moving past elk and really just like

getting in that entire experience of bringing in so many different bulls and just having those really close opportunities. But if I had my other bow, I would have killed a bull for sure. But I also would not have had that experience that I had. And I think it'll probably go down as one of the coolest days elk hunting that I can remember, especially without letting an arrow go. While it might seem like

bulls are going crazy that's the best thing that's the best case scenario for elk hunting and it definitely is like it's it's very exciting but it can also be difficult to kind of know how to act if you haven't

encountered a lot of those scenarios. And there's the reason because a couple of the things that happen when it's Bugle City, when there's bulls moving cows around, there's probably a lot of eyes, there's a lot of commotion, there's a lot of things going on. And those elk are actually probably harder to call in when that's going on because they're distracted by whatever hot cow they're chasing. So there's probably a couple of cows in that herd that

really garnering the attention of the bulls you think oh well I can just use my calls and draw the bull in and sometimes that does work and there's other times where I mean middle of the day I thought to myself look these bulls are very callable they're very they're very responsive but they aren't really like coming in to check things out they've got their own game going on over here and I either need to get in really really tight and play that game or

If I want to draw a bull in, or I'm just going to be back here, 150 yards bugling. I need to get within that 70 to 80 yards or closer. If I really want to draw these bulls in and because I was, you know, using a traditional bow and I wanted, I want to get them within that 30 yards generally, but.

you know, had to keep committing to, to getting closer, to getting closer. And by doing that was seeing their reactions and in that way, getting a lot of good responses. So one thing that you need to kind of understand is what you can get away with in a herd of elk. And this goes for rifle hunters, bow hunters, whatever. I think that so many times people get kind of timid when it comes to moving around elk. And one of the things that's made me very, very successful is I,

spending a lot of time with elk and knowing how to move around them. You can move past elk in a herd. If you think like, well, you're going to get winded this, that, and the other thing you, you might, there are those times like when that wind's blowing and they aren't all super active. Yeah. They're on edge. They're, they're looking out, but when there's things going on and the wind's good, you can, you can get away with a lot of movement and a lot of sound because you

There's a lot going on in that herd. They're seeing things moving. I definitely for sure had elk looking at me, but by using my calls and then just using trees and cover, I was able to just kind of keep that movement and motion going, getting out of their sight, making a call and then letting them think, nah, it's not that big of a deal. It's not something that's threatening us. It's just probably another elk because in those herds, there's so many moving parts. You need to realize that when you get into a herd of elk, you can become another one of those moving parts if you do it right.

So the first thing is you got to look out for their eyes. You have to pay a lot of attention, but you can use the available cover to block their eyes. Even one tree blocking the eyes of that cow that sentry that's looking your way can be enough to get you in a position to get out of sight to remove. Now, the second thing that I do is I use calls to kind of distract their, make them think that what they're seeing is the movement of an elk.

So if I get in and a cow picks me off, I'll either let a cow sound or a bugle. And it's something that's like, okay, it kind of puts them at ease, especially if they're on edge and thinking about running. I'll put them at ease with the call and then I'll get out of sight and then out of sight, out of mind. I like to think of elk. If you've seen Jurassic Park, elk are the T-Rex of the hunting animal kingdom, right?

If you don't move, they don't see you. And that's one thing that really works well is like, even if you're calling, I've had bulls come in in the open, but if you don't move, they don't see you when they've got their brains all fired up.

So if you, if you're out of sight, out of mind, you can kind of get into a position where you can then move around that cow and not worry about spooking her out. Or if she does start to bust, let out a bugle, let out a sound where the other elk in the herd that don't know why that one cow is running, think, Oh,

Oh, maybe a bull is chasing or maybe something's up. As long as it's not a really important elk to the herd, that's like, oh, it's the lead cow or maybe that bull that's kind of pushing them all around. As long as you don't bust those ones out, you can generally get away with a lot. So,

I kind of have this philosophy when I'm getting into a herd of elk is you just can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. You're going to have to get in tight. You're going to have to make your moves. And if you sit back too timid, then you're probably going to lose your opportunity. Now there are those times where it's like, okay, we've got to be patient here. We aren't going to be able to get through the herd. The scenario is not right. The wind's not good. The thermals aren't good. They're bedded and alert and kind of on edge. But if they're rutted up and running around and things are going crazy, then

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Now, the next thing is understanding or knowing whether you're going to call the bull in that you're calling to or not. And here's how you can kind of tell is when that bull's interacting, is he just like kind of right on one cow and right on one certain cow? Or is he kind of coming off and making those challenges and

Saying like, oh, seeing what else is going on and whether the other elk in the herd are in this frenzy where the elk herd's moving and they're running around and checking things out. Or are they all kind of in this nucleus of the elk herd and this is where they are and nothing seems to be budging from that. So there's times where I'll get into a herd and they're bugling and it's crazy and I'll just sit back.

I'll do my bugle. I'll get crazy as well and hopes that the elk on the fringes will kind of come in and check things out. And that works really well. That's, that's how I kill a lot of elk in these calling scenarios. But when you want to kill that one big bull or that herd bull, or maybe all those elk are just kind of together and you can't really draw them away.

Then you can kind of understand, okay, there's probably a hot cow in there and it's going to be really hard for me to make these elk think that I'm whatever I'll throw out.

cow estrus sounds but most of the time that doesn't work because it's like they've got they're right on the honey they don't need to go look for something else i'll throw out those challenge bugles and those bugles but they're it's like i'm they're so focused they're so moving they're just constantly doing their thing that it's going to be very difficult to call them away in those scenarios i found that the only way to call them away is to get so close that they like have to respond and

And that might be within that 100 yards or so. If you're sitting back at 250, 300 yards, you aren't going to call a bull off that. That's just how it is. But if you move in and you get 100 or sub 100, 60 yards, 50 yards, you think,

You think, well, 50 yards, I could shoot, but in timber and in thick stuff, you almost need them in your lap. So I try to get in as tight as possible. And then I make those calls. And that's how I draw in most of the bulls that end up coming into a setup. There are those herd bulls, those mature bulls or bulls that are very distracted and preoccupied by a cow that I'm not going to be able to call them off of. So by getting in tight and then using my call. So I use a combination of stalking and calling.

when the elk are kind of whipped up in this frenzy, I like to generally fire off with those bugles. And then a couple of tactics that I like to use cutting the bulls off. They don't like that. I'll cut them off in, in while they're bugling. And then I'll try to add some more aggressive sounds. I'll add those chuckles in there. And another sound that I really make a lot is that glunking where it's almost just like, if you took your hand and hit the back of your tube is a kind of sound.

You'll notice when you're in a herd and there's some hot cows in there, the bulls will be cruising around making that noise. And it's almost like it's a way that they're talking to those cows. And it can also be a way that really pisses off bulls that think they're in charge. Another sound that I make that's not even a bugle is through the bugle tube huffing and breathing really heavy. I almost think of it like a snort wheeze with a whitetail where like, I just get through the tube and huff, huff.

They don't like that. And it's like when you're in close enough, that helps bring that bull in that extra distance is really good, too. If you've got two callers, because you can get one guy set up a little bit further, you both get in pretty tight. And then you make those noises. And oftentimes, you can get those bulls to kind of come in and check it out.

And that's another way that I've had a lot of success calling in some of the bigger bulls in the herd, the herd bulls. People talk about calling in the herd bull, and that's a very difficult thing to do. But if you get in tight, if you make the right sounds and you move past a lot of the elk that you aren't interested in without blowing them out, but by being aggressive enough to be able to get into the herd, you have a lot better chance of actually calling that herd bull to where you can get a shot.

I don't know about you, but I really can't believe September has already come and gone. I mean, I feel like I spend more time thinking about this time here than anything. And then it just flies by.

But I hope that some of those tips and tactics helped you. I know I really appreciate all the messages I got. I'd say this year more than any, I've had people reach out with photos and videos even and just saying like this tactic killed this bull for me. And that to me is why I love doing this podcast. It's actually the only reason I like doing this podcast because it's about

you know, helping people be more successful in the time that they get to go out there and enjoy the hunt. And so I want to help you guys be more successful. And one of the ways that I like to do that and build these podcasts out to know what's going to make you more successful is by the question answers and the interaction that I get from you guys. So

we'll be doing a Q and a coming up. It can be about elk hunting. It can be about anything. And then also throw out your ideas of things that you guys are interested in hearing in the future, because I like to, there's, there's things I've got ideas on. Um, we're coming into the beginning of October. I know a lot of, a lot of general deer seasons that time of year. And that honestly, October deer hunting, mule deer hunting is probably the hardest thing you can do. Um, it's one of the hardest hunts out, out West, in my opinion.

It's a hard time of year to hunt them, but there are a few tips and tactics that I've used to be successful that time of year. But there's, I mean, there's a lot of different things going on. So feel free to reach out the best ways on Instagram at Remy Warren.

And you can go if you I actually did like a little story of this day that I just talked about. So I'll actually try to go put that on my profile and save it. So if you want to see a little bit of footage of the day, kind of build it out in a visual way here, you hear the story. It's so hard to like, you know, actually tell the whole story in like videos you're going. And it's also hard to like show the whole story as you're talking about it on a podcast. So combination of the two can kind of help paint a good picture. But I thought it might be fun to throw that out there.

As always, send in your questions. I appreciate you guys. Also, the great comments on the podcast, wherever you listen, comments, feedback, rating, good ratings. Those are great. Always great. So I appreciate you all. Until next week, live it up in Bugle City. Catch you guys later.

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