Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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As a guide and hunter, I've spent thousands of days in the field. This show is about translating my hard-won experiences into tips and tactics that'll get you closer to your ultimate goal, success in the field. I'm Remy Warren. This is Cutting the Distance.
Welcome back to the podcast, everyone. This week, we're going to be talking about October mule deer. In my opinion, it's one of the hardest times to hunt mule deer out west. Why is that? Because the tactics seem to always contradict themselves. It's that time when the mule deer vanish and disappear between being bachelored up and the rut. They just ghost you. They're hard and difficult to hunt. So if you were to ask me, well, are the deer high or low? Honestly, the answer is both.
Now, if you said, should I focus on cover or the open? Once again, both. Should you glass or bush stock? The answer is both. So this week, we're going to even odds on October mule deer by sharing this now open secret of using contradictory tactics that effectively put you in a terribly good position for success. But before we do that, I want to share the most successful, unsuccessful hunt I've had for October mule deer.
Now this hunt took place last season. It was on a over-the-counter mule deer tag during middle of October. The reason a lot of those over-the-counter tags are during October is because it's difficult to find deer. So game managers know they aren't going to all get shot out because there's going to be a lot of people that don't even see bucks or something that they're allowed to shoot. Now on this particular hunt, I had my dad and my, at the time, pregnant wife, and
joining me. We decided to go. We had a kind of like a long weekend. They were going to go and do just a fun hunt together. It was kind of planned as like
I mean, some hunts you're like thinking, or at least me, I'm thinking, um, I'm here to find the biggest, best deer I can or other hunts. I'm like, I'm going to go deep and just hunt it hard for a week. And this is, this is, but this hunt, it was just kind of like wanting to get out, wanting to hunt with my dad, hunt with my wife. And if we saw some deer, great. We were just there to have a good time. And I think that there's, you know, there's always a lot of different reasons why you're out hunting, but we weren't going to be super picky about,
It was mostly about having a fun camp, enjoying the experience together and getting out. So with that mindset, I found a pretty sweet camp spot. This place, there's actually some hot springs around. So I was like, oh, let's camp where the hot springs are. We can then kind of like hot tub the evening and hunt during the day. So we set out for just a couple of days, go in there, get the tent set up.
And, uh, of course a big storm rolls in, which you're like, Oh, this is going to be good. But the area we were hunting pretty low deer densities I'd hunted in there before. And I, I actually, I hunted pretty hard. I did shoot a really big buck, but I, um, also didn't see a lot of deer. So I knew that that was a possibility. And I, even though I had a tag, I was like pretty much thinking I'm, I'm up to bat last. So I really wanted to get my dad or my wife a deer. So,
We ended up starting out, going into some of the – checking a few of the areas where I'd seen deer before. And so we hike up in there first day and just getting into the zone, like getting back in there. I mean actually my entire wife's pregnancy, she was like a hiking beast. Yeah.
I think like, I don't even know how many months in she had a deer hunt that lasted essentially a month and just getting after it. But she can just, she can always hike. I don't know. She's probably a better hiker than me.
And my dad's in great shape. So we decided to just go pretty much straight up the mountain, get into the zone pretty quick in an area where it was kind of on the edge of a burn and some timbered stuff. And he just looked so good. I'm thinking, man, this is this is the spot. My wife and I scouted it early season. We went in there in the spring. We went in there in the summer. We were just it was loaded with deer. So we get in there and start glassing, hunting and just not turning anything up. Boat.
no animals. We see a little bit of fresh sign, saw elk. There's actually the elk season was open as well, but we didn't have elk tags and just no deer doing everything we know that's right. Glassing, looking, kind of covering ridges. So what we're doing, we're just, we're moving down some of these ridges in the burn, glassing into different basins. It was overcast that day and just not turning up any deer. So I think that first day we saw
one white tailed doe. And that was it. And he's just glassing it like down in the bottom. So, uh, second day we go out different spot, uh,
hike way back into this perfect base and get set up glassing. Everything's good. It's actually snowing. The snow clears. It's like, in my opinion, the best opportunity you would ever have to find an October mule deer. That weather is popping off. They're going to come out and feed and we're, we're in the zone. We're on the edge of the thick timber, a little bit of open where they can feed. We're doing everything right. And just could not for the life of us turn up a deer.
started a little fire, uh, roasted up some sandwiches. And, uh, one thing we were just, we were just having a good time together. It was, it was everything we wanted. And the only thing we needed was to add to pepper in some deer. My dad's like, yeah, great area. You know, hadn't seen any bucks. I hadn't seen any deer. So the next day was our last day. We're going to go back to this other area and see what we can find. And,
It's just one of those things you're thinking, man, I haven't seen anything, but I know the deer here. So we switch up tactics. We're going into places we can glass. We decided now we're going to go into places where you can't glass. Those really thick pockets where the deer should be bedded and hanging right on the edge of actually a place where I'd gotten into some deer a couple of years earlier. So we go in there and on the way up, like a hundred and...
I would say 200 yards off the trail, something catches my eye. I look and there's a bedded mule deer doe. And she blended in so good, just watching us walk by. And that was immediately click in my brain going, this is why we aren't seeing them. They're just bedded tight. Like they aren't moving around. They're in these little pockets and they don't want to be seen. But
For whatever reason, they are tucked in tight. So we're like, okay, this is what we're looking for. We finally found the target animal. Now we just got to find a buck. So my dad and I go up, keep cruising up to the top. And we get to the top and it's like this flat little basin kind of thing. And it's just thick.
And there's a little bit of burn in there, but it's mostly just timber. So we just start bush stocking through it, get the wind right and checking all these little benches and just similar places to where we'd seen that doe. And just every little pocket moving over, going glassing it, then even just glassing close. So we get up to the top, it's the evening. What would be our last day of this long weekend?
And just, um, we're glassing this, like just walking and glassing in front of us, probably 300 yards. Most you can see. Also, my dad goes buck like what? Okay. We get down and sure enough, it's just an antler tip and an ear of a buck on this ridge bedded up. And this is the evening, like when you'd expect deer to be walking around. So we're like, all right, man, this is it. Get my dad set up.
And there's a little bit of brush in the way. So I'm like, all right, I held him dial up a scope 300 yards and we're like, he's bedded, but all you can see is the top of the deer. So I was thinking, well, we could try to get him to stand here, but it's shooting through a lot of stuff. So I scoot over and I've got a clear view. And at this point, I think the deer had heard something because he's now pretty alert on us. So I'm like, all right, keep on him. Let's keep watching him.
And then we decide how we don't have a good shot here. So I'm like, dad, crawl up just a little bit and move over. I think you'll have a good, like where I was sitting, I could have shot him in his bed. And then that way, if he stood up to, I think you'd have a clear shot. Everything's good. So my dad grabs his stuff. This buck was so keyed in. I mean, we were,
We dropped our packs, everything. He grabs his pack to move. That buck gets up on a dead run away from us. It was such a heartbreaker because, you know, we hiked a lot. We put in some time. I mean, not a lot of time, but a long weekend, the time that we had. And here's the one buck that we find in the deep timber running
And he just blows out as fast as he can be. And we think to ourselves, this is why October deer hunting can be so difficult. But we went back that night, got in the hot spring, had a great meal, cooked up an elk tenderloin, some tamales that a friend had made over the fire. And it was just one of those like hunts that even though we came away with nothing, we remembered one, how difficult it is
Two, we got to enjoy the company of each other and just to hunt it. That was the first time my wife, my dad, and I had hunted together like that. And it kind of reminded me of just those hunts growing up as a kid when we'd join up with family or whatever and be able to get out. It was just a cool experience because, hey, we had a tag in our pocket and there was definitely an opportunity. We weren't successful, but I would say that the trip overall was a successful venture. Yeah.
Now, you might be thinking, well, that was a story. Why did you share an unsuccessful story of October mule deer hunting when you're teaching us how to be successful? And I think part of the reason I wanted to share that story is because, one, it contradicts some of the things I'm talking about, contradictory tactics. And you'll understand it here in a minute. But the other thing is October mule deer hunting can be tough. Now, I've found over the years through guiding, I mean, I've cut my teeth chasing deer this time of year when –
They're pretty much non-existent in general type areas. And we found some giant deer. I mean, we've taken 190 inch type deer in general tags that have low densities and not a lot of big deer. Over the years, I've found a lot of success. And a lot of that success is using these tactics that...
kind of seem opposite yet work together. When you're talking about October mule deer, I think we got to first understand deer or at least bucks as a whole and kind of what they go through and why this October season seems to be the most difficult season to find them. So if you think about the growth cycle of deer, they shed their antlers in the winter and then they start regrowing in the spring. Now, in order for a buck to regrow his antlers, it takes about the same amount of energy as a doe, cranes,
creating a fawn. So you're like, whoa, that's a lot of energy that they need to grow that rack. And while they're growing, their social structure is a little bit different. They're out in the open, they're feeding more. So that's why like during the spring and through the summer, you tend to find...
mule deer in certain types of habitat areas with lots of feed out in the open. And they tend to bachelor up because all those bucks are kind of doing the same thing. So they find this like safety and numbers game where they're in velvet, their antlers are soft. They don't want to be going through so much brush and cover. And they also just need a lot of food. Most food, a lot of good brows is in those fringe areas of that more open kind of country. And then they've got some cover where they can get out of the sun and
Now, another thing to think about is it's hot. So they're generally in the summer up higher in those higher elevations. Not every area lends itself to like that Alpine, but when you think of classic mule deer and velvet, you're thinking of bachelor groups up in the Alpine because they've got food, they've got safety, they've got kind of their whole pattern that they do. And it's all designed to kind of grow those antlers. Now we fast forward a little bit longer and they start to shed that velvet. They, they
They rip that velvet off. And then what happens? Well, that, that early September season, they kind of stay together in those bachelor groups, but they've got their, their antlers shed and they spend a little less time out in the open. It's like they're, they're now don't need as much food, but they're still kind of used to like, Hey, summer was going. It was cool.
Then as they kind of get into this October season, what starts to happen is those bachelor bucks start to split off for a couple of reasons. One, it's like they no longer need that safety because now they're going to use cover as safety. They're going to split off and they're going to be kind of solitary. And what they're doing during that solitary period is they're storing up their energy and bulking up.
for what is soon to be the rut. Because during the rut, they're once again expending all that energy, but they aren't gaining energy. So it's kind of like growing their antlers where it all goes into the growth of the antler during the rut. It all goes into rutting. And the ones that have the endurance, the strength,
Those are the ones that are going to breed. Those are the ones that are going to be successful fighting and cruising and finding does and doing their thing. So you kind of think about this October time is like they split off there by themselves and they are essentially kind of like.
loners they're they're doing their thing but in a small area probably not you think like oh they'd be bulking up with a lot of food that is true but generally they've got like a smaller home range a tighter area and they're just kind of staying secluded where there's feeling protected and they don't necessarily show themselves as much
And that's what makes it very difficult when you're hunting because it's the one time a year where mule deer aren't out. It's like, I've literally gone to a place and seen a hundred deer a day in August and a hundred deer a day during the rut. And in October, you struggle to even see a buck. And you're like, where do they go? Well, they're there, but they're hard to find. So generally when I'm thinking about October deer tactics, the first thing I think of is go where they are, which is the timber.
So tactic one is go to the timber. And the reason that is because we're thinking about their behavior and where they're at. So we're going to hunt in those areas that they are. Now, if
every, you gotta have to, when you're thinking about hunting, you've got to like break down the area you're hunting specifically based on like you choose your tactic for where you are. Now, if you're in an area that has a high Alpine and you know that those deer are in that Alpine, the most logical thing is that those deer are now going to be moving from that higher elevation to that first level of timber that maybe I would say like 1500 to 3000 feet lower, depending on the elevation of
the mountain range you're at, and they're going to be in that more like that band of cover. And so you got to kind of think about, okay, this is where I'm going to pinpoint those deer. They're going to be out of that Alpine and just a little bit lower. Now,
You're thinking like, well, you know, I asked earlier, are they high or are they low? Well, one, it depends on the area. And two, it depends on the type of country that you want to hunt because the opposite side to that is also during that time looking lower. Like, I guess it just kind of depends on your frame of reference. Are they high or are they low?
They might be lower than they were in the summer, but they might be higher than they are in the late fall when they come to rut. A lot of the rutting action is going to take place in what would be the foothills, the lower country. If you've got that kind of classic low valleys, foothills, mountains, big mountains, the deer are now going to be
kind of hitting that area in between the foothills and the top of the mountains. So the flip side to that is check out the lower country, that area that's the fringe between where they're staging to breed. So you've got that stuff below the Alpine and you've got that stuff above the foothills and you've got this kind of band where you can think of seemingly two opposite trains of thought. One, you're going high, one, you're going low, right?
But in both those type of areas are areas to concentrate for deer this time of year. And it really depends on the type of area you're hunting. Now, another thought is some of those deer will still stay high. So you go, okay, well, the deer are secluded. They're, they're finding cover. And that is very true, but you will also still find deer that,
up in that Alpine country in those patches that provide that cover and food that haven't moved down that elevation. So it depends on the type of country you're hunting. I would say go high if there's good cover high, like if it's not pure, just like open Alpine, if you've got good habitat and good structure for them to stay safe and the general area where they breed is not super low, then you're going to catch them high.
if on the flip side, your area is a little bit lower elevation, like it just doesn't have that, that high Alpine, then I would go low and kind of catch them on that fringe of where the does, like you'll be going up into an area and you'll see does everywhere. And you're like, this is a nursery, right? It's just does, does, does, does, does, and maybe a little forky bucks, but you don't see any mature bucks. So you got to think those bucks are going to be in a higher elevation than that nursery in that kind of low
low type of train. So when looking for October mule deer, you're both going to go high and you're going to go low. It's that high country and that low country, depending on the type of area you're in. And sometimes, uh, if an area has both of that, both those type of areas can be very successful and productive. It just depends on the type of weather it's recently received and kind of where the, the does and other deer staging.
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So the next tactic is going to be both focusing on the type of cover. So we're going to focus on cover. And then the other, the flip side of that is to hunt open country. And you'll see why in a second. So like I talked about, we got to think about, well, what are the deer doing? Well, they're going into more cover. They're feeling secluded. So you think to yourself, well, that's a perfect place to hunt. Yes. Hunting the cover is a perfect place to hunt. But when you, in actuality, when you look at a mountain, you go,
wow, there is a lot of cover here. And I'm essentially looking for a needle in a haystack. And that's what it feels like sometimes on these October deer hunts when it's like, man, you know, sometimes some earlier in the season, it was like clockwork. We could come out here and find deer. And now where did they go? So the answer is they're probably in cover, but the hard part is it's really hard to effectively hunt that cover. So, um,
On the flip side of we know they're in cover, a good tactic is also to hunt the open. You think, well, they aren't in the open as much. And that is very true. But the deer that are there are easier to find. So it's kind of a catch 22 where you're saying most the deer are in the cover.
But the deer that are easiest to find are outside of that cover. They're in that country that might be more open or that more open country where I can limit the amount of cover is easier to find deer. I go back and forth when it comes this time of year to the places that I hunt. It is a lot easier to find deer in those more open areas because there's
You're still focusing on cover, but you're looking for the open areas because there's less cover for the deer to hide in and it's easier to catch them in the open. On the flip side, a majority of the deer will be in that thicker cover terrain. The stuff, even if it's overhanging,
open country like Nevada mule deer type country they're going to be in that thick mahogany band they're going to be in that pj this time of year they're going to be in that stuff that's really thick and that's if the majority of the deer in that that's your best odds for finding a really mature buck because he's probably going to be in that country that is
the safest for him from hunters because in these areas where there's general tags, the ones that are in the easier places to find generally get shot. So they don't get the age, they don't get the maturity. If you're looking for a true giant in a general tag, you want to hunt deep pockets that are full of cover. And so that's why I would say both focus on cover and hunt open country. You've got a little bit of both options. Now, when it comes to the tactic for
for hunting October mule deer, I would say there's two options, glass hard or bush stock. And I would say that both tactics are what you want to do. You want to do this combination of covering through country, covering through that cover. So moving through those pockets, moving into those timber pockets, moving in those ridges that are hard to glass, but then also covering
Honestly, this time of year is really about covering country. So you have to do it every way you can. It's with both glassing and still hunting and moving, covering those ridges and areas where it's like it takes you into that cover where the deer are.
probably going to be, but also allowing you to look over a lot of different country and catch those deer that are moving between cover, catch those deer that might be out. Maybe they're just cruising to a new pocket or getting ready to stage or those deer that it's like, Hey, I'm out in the open. I live in open country. So we're going to glass it. So generally my October deer
deer hunt strategy looks like this. I get up and I start my morning on a glassing knob. So I will get up there and I'll, I'll find an area that I can overlook a bunch of different places where it's like timber pocket feeding sage open country, where it's like, this is mule deer habitat, prime mule deer habitat. I glass the, you know, if it's like Aspen type country, I glass the edge of those Aspen trees in the morning, the ridges, I'm really just picking it apart. And then
As the day progresses, I kind of start moving and changing my tactic. I don't really sit still when it comes to October deer because I know that the more I move around, the higher likelihood I have of
finding what I'm looking for. Now, there's a lot of people that can be very successful this time of year, just knowing, Hey, I know the deer use this basin. I see the sign. I'm going to sit here and wait until that deer comes out. And they might sit four or five days glassing and looking. And then sure enough, the deer comes out. I just personally, that's not my hunting strategy or tactic and it does work, but it, it just drives me crazy. Like I just lose that patience. So what I like to do is then, um,
move up the ridges and find those bedding areas, those thick pockets where I believe deer will be, and then going between glassing points. So I'll move up, up a ridge or whatever, uh, glassing along the way, looking for deer. And then when I get into a new pocket, sitting in glassing. Now I do know that when you get into these new pockets that look good, you're really doing yourself a disservice to, to judge that pocket based on what you're seeing that is not morning or evening. So,
During October time, deers spend a lot of time bedded. And if the moon's weird, if it's got like a full moon or something like that, they might even spend the evenings bedded. They might only be out in the morning or the evening just depends on weather.
on how they're feeling the type of weather or whatever. So they aren't going to be out very often. So you really, when you find a good spot where you're seeing a lot of sign, you're like this pocket's good. It's good for glassing. You then judge that pocket based on the right times of day, not the middle of the day. So that's something to think about. But then the rest of the day I spend cruising that timber still hunting because I will catch deer moving in that timber, uh,
Find them in those little pockets. I'm looking for sign, both tracks and, you know, scat and whatever. Even sometimes you'll start to see some, some initial rubbings where it's like, Hey, they're kind of marking out their turf. They're cruising around. They're, they're preparing for the rut, both mentally and physically, I guess.
And so the way that I like to structure my hunt is glassing in the mornings, moving throughout the day, finding like new areas where it looks like, okay, this is another good glassing spot, glassing it because you will oftentimes turn up deer, even out in the open in the daytime, maybe they're bedded or whatever, but looking for those bedded deer.
Then continuing moving through cover, bush stocking, and then getting to in the evening set up, posted up for more glassing. And that I found is probably the most successful way by combining all those things, like understanding where the deer might be and deciding, okay, high or low, which it could be both.
deciding whether to focus on cover or more open where they're in the cover, but the more open might be more successful. And then doing the combination of glassing and still hunting, you're covering the most country, the most efficiently. And that's the best way to find some of the hardest deer to find during this time of year.
I hope this helps you guys find some success. If you got that October deer tag, I definitely want you to send me some pictures. Keep me posted on your success. I've had so many awesome already. A lot of guys being successful using some tactics, some stuff from last season, uh,
I know, I know some, I got, I did get a few comments, people wanting like, they're like, I want this October deer stuff in September and the September elk stuff in August. And I understand that, you know, being able to prepare for it a little bit better, but also I like to kind of do things that are topical when we're doing it. There's a lot of guys cruising out this weekend. Um, and maybe this tactic when they're fresh, I feel like they, they also help a lot too. So, um,
In the future, I'll try to get ahead of some of the tactics. We'll talk a little bit about some late season elk tactics, some good rifle tactics. One thing that I did get a lot of questions on was just talking about gear. And I generally would break up
um, you know, a lot of the, the podcasts, I guess, like in the, in this quote unquote schedule, um, doing kind of a gear dump thing. And we haven't done one for a while. So I always think that that's fun. It's kind of one of those things. Like, I, I mean, I, I fortunate, I get to try a lot of gear and use a lot of gear. And so, uh, gear, I definitely have a, I feel like I can talk forever about gear Hunter. You get two hunters in the same room together, dude. It's just like gear talk city. That's all it is. Um, and,
But maybe we'll do a little bit of gear stuff too, just for the people that have asked for it. And then once again, you know, feel free to send out your comments. The best way is at Remy Warren on Instagram, or even I've been checking the YouTube stuff a little bit more as well. I've got some pretty awesome hunts that we've been, I just did. I should probably, it's kind of fun to talk about like recent hunts. I know a lot of the stories and stuff have been from past hunts, summer recent hunts.
It's actually just had an incredible moose hunt. It was really fun. Kind of fun to talk about different species too. You know, you think about this and it's like you get pigeonholed into elk and deer and yeah, it's hard to get a moose tag or whatever, but it's fine. I've actually got more questions about moose tactics than, than late season elk tactics. So, you know, that, that might even just steer the conversation there.
it's been it's been a pretty I've had like a pretty incredible season so far I did have one hunt it was just kind of like a I don't know man like a beat down you know those hunts where you put it all in you put it all on the line I hunted about two weeks in the back country for a sheep and did not well I'll let you watch the videos coming out tomorrow I guess it'd be Friday yeah
I mean, it's good. It's a cool watch. I'll put a, I'm actually, I'll just put a link to it or playlist on my Remy Warren YouTube channel. You can, you can check that out if you guys want.
But then after that, it was like super success of shooting the best bull I've ever shot. And that video is going to come out pretty soon. And then going into this moose and actually got a chance to hunt woodland caribou, which has been a dream of mine. Like I, it seems weird, but I love like the smaller species of species, coos deer, black tail deer, now Newfoundland caribou, woodland caribou from Newfoundland. I mean, I went from a string of like hard luck to,
a lot of success. And I think that's kind of fun to kind of fun to see, you know, it's like one of those things, man, I put in my time on one hunt and it's just been boom, bang, bop since then. So, um, yeah, you can keep up with all that or whatever, and maybe I'll share some of those stories as well. I really appreciate you guys, uh, reaching out and just, I've got so many messages about
people's like, Hey man, this tactic worked for me. This is, you know, I've hunted elk five years, not been successful. Use some of your tactics came out on top this year. So that's what that, that just gets me stoked on it. I'm pretty excited for the stuff we got coming up. Hopefully it's good stuff for the rest of the season. And then, like I say, just keep me posted on how you guys do. I like to see that kind of stuff. It keeps me motivated when I'm like,
dead tired in between hunts. I mean, I'm, I'm full on guide mode now. So, um, a lot of these podcasts are done in the wee hours of the night. Like I get in at 11, then, uh, eat dinner and do a podcast that you would think only takes 30 minutes, however long there, but it takes me a little bit longer to kind of think about it. And then, uh, get up at 4 a.m.,
And then head out, you know, it's just like the no sleep time of year. But it's also I think that's some of the best time when it's like racking my brain of like the tactics that I'm using. And that's why I like to keep them fresh with things that are going on, because it's just like, oh, this is what I did today. And it's easier for me to talk about that way. It's like real life action. And then you get a you get a benefit from that.
But yeah, keep the conversation going both ways. Feel free to reach out to me on social media at Remy Warren. I appreciate everyone too that drops the comments in the, wherever you listen to the podcast. And then if you give it a good rating, that never hurts. Share it with some friends, share it on social media, whatever you guys like to do. I appreciate it. And so until next week, let's just say, keep it contradictory. That's a fun word to say. All right. See you guys.
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