Ep. 12: Backcountry Elk Hunting with Nate Simmons
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You've probably heard that 90% of the elk are killed by the same 10% of hunters year in and year out. Today's guest is one of those elk hunters that converts the majority of his issue tags into notch tags. What's even better? He's as humble as they get. Nate Simmons is one of those guys I look up to and have a ton of respect for.

He resides in Cody, Wyoming and is one of the most extreme backcountry bow hunters out there and he prides himself on being a self-sufficient DIY hunter. He is the producer and co-host of the Western Hunter TV show and has written numerous hunting articles. His success as an elk hunter is second to none and today I wanted to sit down and pick Nate's brain on some of his tactics that leads to his consistent success. Welcome to the show, Nate. Well, thank you. Honored to be here. I'm excited to talk some elk hunting with you, Jason. Thank you.

How's everything going over there at the Western Hunter? Good. It's been extremely busy lately. This is always like about our busiest time of the year. We just, we just got our first episode of the new season off on Monday. And that first one's always way tougher than any of the ones that follow it. So the rest of them. Yep. For sure. Do you have any big hunts lined up for this fall?

You know, nothing out of the ordinary. It doesn't look like I'm still waiting on a couple states draw results, but I don't really anticipate a whole lot of luck there. But I am still pretty excited. I've got my normal elk hunting lineup, you know, kind of what's been my standard, which is elk.

Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana. And all those this year are their general season over-the-counter hunts, which I'm just probably more excited than I ever have been because it does feel to me like

So this may not be the last year that I get all three of those in one season, but it very likely could be. Like, I feel really, really lucky that I've got all three of those in my pocket. For sure. Yeah, it's definitely getting harder, especially mule deer tags are still somewhat available. But man, the elk tags are getting tough to come by. I got great information online.

I was able to draw a 2% tag here in Washington. So it's an extra tag for me. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a little pleasant surprise. We have some decent hunting here as long as you can get one of the

very few tags they have. So, uh, added, added to my fall. Awesome. So is it a Rocky or Roosevelt? Rocky. We, uh, down in the blues down in Southeast, um, Washington. So yeah, really, really lucky. That's awesome, man. Have you, have you ever hunted there before? I did. My wife had to tag in, uh, 15 and, um, saw some, some great bulls. Um, so I'm, I'm excited to get back and, and,

you know, run, run loose through the area, you know, definitely rugged, rugged terrain. And, you know, sometimes tough hunting there at the end of October. But the nice thing is, you know, going in that there's a big bull somewhere in that unit, it's just up to me to go find it. So cool. It alleviates the first part of, you know, going to find a big bull or be even being in a unit with one, you know, they're there. It's just finding them and trying to find one that the, the wolves haven't turned into toothpicks. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So, well, we're going to start this podcast off like all of them. We're going to take some questions that, you know, kind of pertain to your experience and your expertise. And if you have any questions out there in the audience, feel

that you want to ask our guests, please email us at ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com. We'll take your questions, pass them on to the experts and see what their answers are. So the first question that the listeners had for you, Nate, was with some great elk hunting existing in grizzly dense areas,

and known a little bit of your past, what are the do's and do nots while hunting in grizzly country? And how have you kind of adapted and coped with, you know, not necessarily being the apex predator, but still wanting to get into some of that country and hunt it. And then if you can elaborate a little bit on gun versus bear spray, and then, you know, some of your camping in grizzly country, you know, tactics or advice. Okay. Yeah. I would say, I guess, I mean, really it's like,

I've been hunting in grizzly country, like my first hunt in grizzly country was probably like 10 years ago. And there's been maybe a year or two that I haven't hunted in grizzly country over that time. But, you know, definitely the majority of those. And even like last year, I did two hunts in grizzly country, one in Wyoming and Montana. But

But so I have experience, but it's definitely still like an evolving, you know, like system that I'm coming up with. I'm still making tweaks and, and, you know, stuff to my, you know, just to my system. But I would say probably like the number one thing that I think is really important where it's not, I mean, it's always important. It's not as important outside of grizzly country. And that is to try to always hunt with another person if possible.

Um, you know, which, uh, you know, like I rarely ever go on an elk hunt alone anymore. Like, uh, especially in grizzly country. I mean, I've, I've self filmed a couple of elk hunts, um, over the years, but, uh, never in grizzly country. And that's something I highly doubt that I would ever even attempt, uh,

Um, there's just so, you know, it's just much more likely in, in my opinion, uh, that you're going to have trouble if you're completely alone. Um, you know, in pretty much any time, I feel like it's a detriment to be alone, but particularly when you get one down, um,

You know, like, I mean, last year, for example, the bull I killed was down in a, like a, just a little creek bottom where it was kind of a deep little cut there. And when I was down working on the elk, like I couldn't see anything and we knew there was at least two bears in the area. So it was really nice to have Randy who was with me stay up, like out of the wash a little bit to where he could kind of,

you know, keep his eyes and ears going where I was right next to the creek, couldn't hear. So I feel like, you know, that would be the number one thing just from a safety standpoint is to always, you know, at least be in pairs. And then also to have GPS communication device. I feel like that's really kind of, you know, a good idea no matter where you are. But I think in grizzly country, even if you think you're going to have cell service, I think it's just really foolish to go out there without a backup way of communicating.

which kind of like would tie in with another piece of advice I would have is that

You know, if you don't have your own pack animals, I think having an outfitter lined up to retrieve your elk with, you know, horses or mules is a really good idea if you're in grizzly country. Even if you're not planning on being that far back. I mean, if you just if you end up being back a little ways, you know, just having somebody lined up to help you. I mean, that's some of like my most pleasant experiences hunting in grizzly country is

is on hunts where I've been able to contact an outfitter and either do a drop camp, just have them pack me in and drop me off, which there's a huge benefit in that too. I mean, normally I just backpack when I'm elk hunting because I just feel like I'm the most mobile that way. You know, it's just less things to worry about. But doing the drop camp, having an outfitter drop me allows me to take a nicer camp, which is a little safer in grizzly country. I mean, generally I would take an electric fence

And a bigger tent that we could both be inside of. I feel like there's just a lot of things, safety measures that we can take, more rope, all that sort of stuff. So I do like that as well. But the biggest thing is when you get an elk down, I mean, the second I recover my elk...

I'm on the phone, you know, give him a call and say, hey, come get me, you know, and that's just so nice. I mean, there's enough things for me to be stressed out about hunting in grizzly country, like not having to go worry about getting my animals or take care of them. Just knowing. And it's also just peace of mind when you're processing that elk, knowing that there's help on the way. Yeah, those are great tips, Nate. And I have to ask Gunner Spray.

I wouldn't go out without both. Um, but like I said, since I, there's always somebody with me, uh, usually what, what the system that I have is that I have bear spray on me and I'm usually in front, you know, when I'm hunting and, and then, uh, you know, Randy's general, he's with me an awful lot in grizzly country. And then he usually packs a 10 millimeter Glock, um, with some, you know, pretty, uh, serious bear loads.

And, you know, like personally, like if the conditions are right, like I would much rather use spray for a lot of reasons. I just feel like there's more forgiveness there. You know, you know, I mean, like with a pistol, like who knows if you're gonna be able to be accurate enough. And the last thing you I mean, like, certainly, I'd pull the trigger, you know, if I if I really felt like my life was in danger, but just hearing the stories of

people that have had to kill them of what they've had to deal with it's like I want no part of that yeah so that's the system we go with that the downside to me like when Randy and I go backpacking and we're both in one-man tents like I only have spray in my tent you know and that's not going to do me a whole lot of good inside of my tent if a bear came in at night but but when I'm out in the field I do feel like just having a combination of the two is a pretty good system

Gotcha. Do you recommend as long as the forest isn't too dry and you're going to burn the whole place down, do you recommend building a fire if it's a nighttime breakdown of that bowl? Do you build fires or do you tend to just put somebody on watch?

Yeah, like you said, it's really condition, you know, just dictates that. Like, I recovered a bull with Randy several years ago, and there was snow on the ground. And so I called the packer as soon as I recovered the elk, but I knew he was not going to get there that day. He was going to get there, you know, late the next morning. We're just too far for him to come, you know, that same day. So we knew...

There was no rush. We just took our time and processed the elk. But yeah, we definitely started a bonfire on that deal because there was no fire restrictions and we were not worried about the fire getting away from us. But yeah, that definitely was a little peace of mind there. And we have done it other times where we've had bears. We had a bear come in to us when we were eating dinner one night. It got super close to us. It was just one of those deals where

My head's always on a swivel when I'm in grizzly country, like constantly, whether it's day or night, but just, we were both just sitting there. We had the pistol in between us. We're sitting on the ground, eating our mountain house. And just every so often it was pitch dark. I just kind of shine my light out through the meadow and just kind of subconsciously without even thinking about it. And I did it once and looked over and there was two eyes, like, I mean, 15 yards. Um, and he was downwind coming straight at us. And fortunately he just took off running when we started hollering and stuff. But, uh,

We were really spooked that he was going to be coming back that night. So, you know, we hung our food, went back over to where we had our camp set up, you know, about 150 yards away. And, yeah, we started a little fire that night. Just – I don't know if it was really going to keep him away or not, but it made us feel a little bit better. Yeah. Another –

Another thing I guess I kind of like to do in grizzly country, if I'm going to be hunting elk in grizzly country, is I usually try to stay away from areas that are really thick. I like to try to pick out areas that...

are more open with lots of topography so that I can use my eyes as much as possible to locate the elk versus in areas that are really dense where you constantly have to be covering ground to locate them with your ears. And that's really like, that strategy is one that, one, I kind of like to begin with, but it's also just a safety thing. You know, like...

I just, I don't want to go hunt in like in, in grizzly country and know that my game plan is, is I got to cover lots of ground, you know, constantly and be trying to, you know, locate elk with bugles. Um, just because I feel like the more traveling you're doing in thick cover, um, you know, that's just, to me, that just presents more, um,

likelihood that you're going to end up bumping one. So usually, you know, a lot of times where archery hunters get into trouble is they just bump into one and surprise it.

Um, and I've, I've had that happen to me where I've bumped bears like very close, but fortunately, um, none of them have charged. They've, they've ran the other direction, but I just feel like that, you know, getting up on a glass and spot to where I can see and also where I can hear really well. Um, you know, it just allows me to know, like I can be hunting very effectively without constantly being happy, having to be on the move. And I guess the other part of that too is, um,

Uh, is when I'm in grizzly country, I also tend to push my luck a little bit with how close I camp to the, uh, in, in proximity to the, where I think the elk are. Um, I try to camp a little closer in grizzly country, uh,

so it just limits the amount of movement i don't want to have to get up and hike for an hour in the dark to go get to where the elk are like i'd like to be wake up and feel like they're pretty close just just to limit my movement you know which is really just it's a safety precaution really yeah those are all great points and i wanted to add on to your point of hunting with a partner i was at a western hunting summit um just this past weekend and one of the speakers was talking about grizzly

hunting and I I don't remember the stat and I'm not going to claim to know it but I know it was exponentially better like the survival rate of one guy versus a group of two guys versus a group of three guys by the time you got the three guys I think the survival rate was like down in the you know 99 percent more than you know surviving if it was one you know 100 so that's a a little bit of information I don't know the exact stats but it was exponentially increased that there wasn't going to be a fatality or any you know major issues with three or more people

Yeah, no, yeah, for sure. Um, there was, uh, like, like self filming is definitely not like something that I, uh, you know, I seek out, like I've just ended up in some situations that I've needed to over the years. Um, but like, just to, to your point, um, about being with people, there was, I don't know, it was probably about three years ago. I was hunting, uh, I had a general elk tag in Wyoming and was hunting with, uh,

a guy that had taken some vacation off his work to film with me. And we found a huge bull, biggest bull that I've ever found on a general tag. I mean, it was like a 370 type bull, just a monster. And he was in a pretty killable spot. I called him in once, just barely out of range.

And I just felt like if I kept hunting him, I could probably have a good chance at him. And we ran out of time. My buddy had to go back to work and I still had plenty of time. And I knew, I mean, I absolutely could have went back up there and tried to sell film, but I just thought there is no way. Like if it had been like years and years ago, I might've been foolish enough to attempt it. I've just had enough experiences now in grizzly country. I just thought,

Huge bull in a great spot. There's no way I'm going up there by myself. So I just packed my bags and went over to Idaho and self-filmed over there because I liked my odds of survival. It felt like they were just a lot higher. And I'm glad that I made that decision.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. We'll jump into question number two. Somebody had for you. How long will you typically stay in an area if it seems marginal or you're not finding the elk that you like before you decide to move on and find an area that has more elk or the elk you're looking for? You know, I would say that really depends on a couple of factors. You know, one would be

Do I have a good draw tag versus a general season tag? You know, like if I, if I have a good draw tag, which, you know, I don't have very often, but when I do, I'm going to be more picky. Like if I end up in a marginal area, like, you know, I'm going to be swinging for the fence. I'm going to be looking for, um, you know, the pot of gold in the rainbow. So I'm going to, I'm going to like, I'm going to move very quickly. If I, if I'm not in a really, really good situation that I feel great about and I have a draw tag, I'm going to be moving.

Um, but most of the time I have a general season tag or over the counter type tag in my pocket. And, uh, you know, so that, that would be the second part of it. And that would have to do with really, um, if I had an, a marginal area to myself, um,

you know, or if there's other hunters around. So if I'm in an over-the-counter or general season type unit, if I feel like it's kind of marginal hunting, but I got it to myself, I'm probably going to stick it out for a while longer. Because I would just personally, I'd rather have a marginal area with solitude versus an area that has plenty of elk, but also lots of people. So I guess those are just a couple of factors, you know, if it's a draw tag general, and then really if I have it to myself or not.

Um, but I guess really, I like when it comes down to making that decision, like, do I, should I move or not? Um, I know I would always rather move too soon than too late. Um, you know, I mean, if you're thinking about leaving, then it's, it's definitely not a great situation to begin with. And, um,

I almost never make a move and wish I was back on the other area. You know, like if anything, you know, like a lot of times I end up moving areas and I kind of wished I'd have done it sooner. Gotcha. Yeah. You know, we always go by the mantra, don't leave elk to find elk. But I also don't like that saying as well, because I'm not going to sit and, you know, as you mentioned, if there's only a few elk or I feel like my chances of actually, you

you know, making it happen on those few elk, like I'm willing to leave a few elk to go find, you know, better elk or better numbers. So yeah, it's definitely on a case by case basis for sure.

Yep. And it's a gamble. I mean, that's, I mean, that's the whole thing. I mean, that's, uh, like last year on my Idaho hunt, um, I was in a spot that had a decent amount of elk, but it also had a, an insane amount of people. Um, and it was, I stressed out over, should I leave? Because like, I knew I could find elk there every day. And I knew that if I left, there's a good chance I could find just as many people somewhere else or, you know, not as many elk, but I

in that instance, it ended up being a good decision. I, you know, I moved areas, uh, found about the same, maybe even less elk, but I had the place to myself and, you know, I'd wished I'd made that move sooner. For sure. Yeah. So if you have any questions for our guests, um, on cutting the distance, make sure to email us ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com or hit us up on social anyway and get ahold of us and we'll make sure to include those in here.

Now we're going to jump into discussion some of the questions I had for Nate and some of his tactics and, you know, the way he likes to hunt elk. So, Nate, it's well known that you love to backpack hunt for elk. I would say you're pretty dang good at it. But let's say you were just getting into elk hunting and wanted to undertake, you know, hunting from your back or spiking out or camping with the elk, whatever we want to call it, you know, all the different ways we can do it. You know, we go up, there are hunts where we set up a base camp and we hunt from there. There's

there's times where you wake up in the morning, we throw our sleeping bag and our tent and our pack and we're moving on. Um, what advice would you have for somebody that's looking to maybe get from, you know, road hunting or the traditional day hunting and get into backpack hunting? Like what would be your advice, um, to maybe give them a shortcut versus some of the stuff that you've learned, you know, over the, over the, you know, many years you've been doing it. Um, I guess for somebody that was just starting out, um,

I would say that, you know, just start out with like one, two or even, you know, maybe three night outings max. You know, don't try and just rip off a week long, you know, trip cold turkey, you know. And then also, you know, with that, like start out with, you know, like two to four mile type range.

trips, you know, not try to rip off like a, you know, a six, 12 miler right out of the gate, you know, I mean, like monster expeditions aren't usually necessary. You know, to me, like the biggest,

advantage of backpacking is just the efficiency and the time saved hiking back and forth each morning and evening. It's not necessarily like getting 10 miles deep. I mean, a lot of times, like I've killed a lot of elk where I've only been three miles, you know, from, from the truck.

But, you know, like in the mountains with a pack on, if you're hunting like somewhat rugged terrain with a pack on, like I usually like kind of average going about two miles an hour, especially if I'm off trail. So if I'm three miles back, that means it's going to take me an hour and a half.

uh, one way to get in in the morning and an hour and a half, you know, to get out that evening. And then more than likely I'm going to get in my truck after I get back to back to the truck, drive, you know, 20 or 30 minutes back to my base camp and then go make a meal and everything. By the time you get to bed, you gotta, you don't get to sleep very much and you gotta get up, drive back to trailhead. Like, like you get, I get so much more sleep,

And, you know, I just have a lot more energy, even if it's only three miles back, it's, it's more than worth it to me, just from the efficiency standpoint, because in September, as you know, it's like, the nights are pretty short, the days are long, like, you're not getting a ton of sleep to begin with. So, you know, I just feel like, you know, just because somebody wants to go backpacking doesn't mean, okay, we got to, we got to go eight miles to make it worth it. I don't think that's the case at all.

Um, and I guess the other thing would be just be very critical of what you decide to put in your backpack. Um, you know, like when you're just starting out, it's easy to pack way more than you need, which will really start to wear on you, especially when the hunting gets tough. I mean, that's something I still struggle with. You know, I always think, ah, I probably need that. It's like, if you're trying to decide if you really need it or not, like there's a decent chance you don't, it's something you definitely fine tune with experience, but

um you know really i mean but like look up some uh experienced hunters gear lists go through it you know and uh you know like don't take too much because that'll definitely lead to a shorter you know more frustrating hunt from my experience just all that weight on your back um i guess probably like the last thing um that i would say that for somebody that's not uh done it before it's just super critical is just to take good care of your feet um i know it took me uh a lot of years to

to realize like the quality boots and insoles were more than, uh, worth the money. Um, you know, like that, that's just ruined more hunts for me over the years, or even if it hasn't ruined them, it's just really led to, uh, me making decisions that probably, uh,

ultimately weren't the best decisions to lead to success. I was making decisions off of how I felt and when I had blistered feet. I feel like now I've got my boot, sock, and insole system so dialed in that even after a really brutal day of hiking with a heavy pack,

I get back to camp and the last thing I'm thinking about is my feet. I used to, before I started realizing how important it was to invest in quality socks and insole and boots, even when I would sit down, I'd stop hiking and I'd just stop to listen for bugles. I just wanted to sit down and untie my boots. Now that I've got everything dialed in, I hardly even think about them. I do think that is a really, really big deal.

Yeah, those are all great points. And to reiterate what Nate said on, you know, miles and then nights, use those as building blocks. It's a lot easier to do four nights after you've camped for three nights, you know, and then if you want to extend it to seven, once you've already did a four or five and just build on it, don't you? Don't go, you know, 20 miles deep in the wilderness for 10 nights. It's just, it's not going to be enjoyable right out of the gate. And, you know, the thing that some people,

times people overlook is what happens if you do kill an elk back there, the, the work just begins. And so, yeah, use, use the, the distance and the nights is building blocks and then, you know, build on that. So. Absolutely. We all know backpack hunting, um, you know, steep, off,

off-grid type country, pretty physically demanding. What do you do to prepare physically? Do you have a regimen? Do you just stay in good enough shape year-round? Do you show up and get in shape on the mountain? How do you prepare physically to do this year in and year out?

in the mountains? Um, I guess that's also, um, kind of like hunting in grizzly country. It's just like an evolving strategy. I mean, uh, you know, like I, for, for years and years, uh, when I was younger, I didn't really have to do anything to hunt exactly the way I wanted to and to be effective. Um,

But I'm 41 now. And, you know, like every year that goes by, I'm just having to get, you know, to where I'm committing to doing more in the off season and leading up to hunting season to be able to, you know, hunt the way that I want to. And I still, I mean, I don't do as much as a lot of guys, you know, I hear, you know, their regimen and stuff.

And, you know, that's great. Unfortunately for me, I don't feel like I need to do that. And I spend my time doing other things. But what I do do is I have to be a lot smarter now with my diet.

Um, so that I don't go into hunting season with too much extra weight on me. Um, you know, cause there was when I was kind of making that transition from being able to be young enough and get away with whatever, you know, I could eat whatever I want to do, whatever, and I'd still be fine to now. Uh, you know, I was kind of, I felt like I was coming out of season, uh, out of hunting season in the, at the weight and shape that I needed to be in. And now I'm trying to get to where I'm going into hunting season there. And so I'm just having to be a lot smarter with, uh, what I'm eating. Um,

And, uh, you know, I, it's not like I don't really subscribe just strictly to a keto diet, but kind of, especially like in the months leading up to hunting season, really just limit the carbs. Um, and, uh, you know, and, and try to, uh, you know, shed those extra pounds that definitely are going to help me, um, on the, on the mountain. And then as far as like actually training goes, um,

You know, I keep it pretty simple. You know, I'm fortunate that I live at like, you know, I live over 5,000 feet in elevation. So that's an asset in, you know, that I don't live down at lower elevation because I know that that can make, that's a tough transition going from lower elevation to higher elevation. But I trail run, you know, three to five times a week. And I kind of usually just, you know, start out less. And I ramp that number up as I get closer to hunting season. But I kind of start that.

um, in the spring, um, and then just ramp it up more, uh, you know, as I get closer to hunting season and I'm running like three, four or five miles, um, you know, and, uh, that's also just kind of something that I start out at less mileage and work my way up as it gets closer to hunting season. Um, and then I do some very basic strength training, um, that really has, you know, is mostly just to strengthen my upper body for, uh, archery performance, um,

And that's the same thing. Like I don't do it year round. Like I can see that that's probably coming. I'm guessing that I'm probably, I mean, there's going to come a time where this is really going to be more required of me year round just to stay. Right now I have, you know, a little bit of, you know, peaks and valleys just in my physical conditioning, but I'm still at an age where I feel like I can get away with it. But really where I invest a lot more of my time when it comes to training is in archery.

I spend far more time in the length of the sessions and just the frequency on my archery, just working on my shot, my form, also as well as just playing with equipment, tinkering with veins and stuff. But I do feel like it's all for nothing if you can't make the shot. So I just personally, that's where I spend a large amount of my time.

is out on my, uh, you know, on my range, uh, you know, 3d shoots. Um, you know, I take, uh, I got one of those little, those little baby, like Reinhardt elk targets. It's easy to throw in the back of my truck and I can take that down to the BLM and shoot on angles and with weird footing and stuff. And I really try to focus on being able to capitalize when I get a shot opportunity. Yeah. Your, your plan at least sounds a lot more, uh,

more consistent than mine where you eat for whatever you want for nine months out of the year and then uh try to get in shape a little bit before season and then you use elk season to get in shape so your plan is definitely more dialed than mine but yeah uh today's today's actually my 39th birthday so similar to you i'm probably running out of times where my uh my thank you my my mental toughness and uh everything's gonna just allow me to kind of grind through i'm gonna have to probably start putting a lot more work into it and i should anyways but

Yeah, so that's great, great tips on getting in, staying in shape for your hunts. O'Reilly Auto Parts are in the business of keeping your car on the road. I love O'Reilly. In fact, the other day, I'm not kidding you, the other day, I went into an O'Reilly Auto Parts looking for a part. I needed a different thing that wasn't really in there, you know, only like tangentially related to what they carry.

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This is Brent Reeves from This Country Life. What makes South Dakota the greatest for pheasant hunting? With over 1.2 million pheasants harvested last year, South Dakota boasts the highest population of pheasants in the nation. In fact, you'd have to add up the total harvest from neighboring states just to get that many birds.

There's also millions of wide open acres chock full of different landscapes, meaning the hunt in one county is often completely different from just a few counties over. But what really makes South Dakota the greatest goes way beyond just hunting a colorful bird. It's the pursuit of something more like the camaraderie that awaits all kinds of hunters from all walks of life and partaking in South Dakota tradition over 100 years in the making.

It's about taking the greatest shots and watching your dog work the greatest fields in the greatest lands, carrying on the greatest heritage and making the greatest memories. So what are you waiting for? From the rush of the flush to the stories at the end of the day, experience a thrill like no other. Learn how at huntthegreatest.com. So let's, let's dive in a little bit here, Nate. Um,

you know, either you've been to an area, it's always nice if you've been to an area, but, um, you know, you, you can usually stroll back in there and where the elk are at from year to year, they will typically be there. Now with that said, they're not always going to be in the same place, but yeah,

If you're looking at an area, let's dive in a little bit on how you kind of confirm or through e-scouting or what do you do to kind of make sure that you're going to show up an elk, whether it's talk to biologists, talk to other hunters, talk to, you know, what are some of those tips and tactics to make sure you're going to end up being an elk? Because it's the most obvious thing we can say, but in order to kill an elk, you need to be in elk or around elk. So walk us through, you know, kind of your, you know,

e-scouting and proofing an area before you ever show up to the trailhead okay yeah i mean i still uh i i i make this mistake um you know like every once in a while i did it last year and it cost me but but

Generally, what I do and has worked really well for me is it definitely starts with e-scouting and looking at the aerial imagery. I toggle back and forth between the topo and the satellite imagery quite often because, like I was mentioning about grizzly country just from a safety standpoint, it's also kind of what I prefer. I like to try to pick areas that...

are open enough and have enough topography that so I can get up on glassing spots and I'm not at the mercy of the rut. You know, that, you know, like that just kind of drives me crazy. Like if it would be different if,

If I was only going to just do, if I only, if I could only go on one elk hunt and I had a week to hunt, um, I wouldn't worry about it as much because I would, even if I was hunting more in like flatter, like thick, thick timber type terrain, I would just really try to plan my hunt around a good moon phase and peak of the rut. So I could really try to stack the odds in my favor of the bulls being vocal, um, which would kind of, you know, negate, you know, the, that, that terrain, uh, it wouldn't, you know, stop me from finding them generally. Um,

But because I usually am trying to, you know, go on more than one hunt, I can't just plan every hunt at the perfect time. So picking more open terrain that has more topography to it, which is just allows me to feel like I still have a chance, even if the bulls are not bugling for whatever reason, or if the rut's not really kicked in, I still feel like I have a shot.

You know, and I also, so once that's kind of how I try to pick an area. And then when I get there, you know, I just, I show up with a bunch of pre-marked

uh, vantage points. And I usually just try to stick to, uh, until I find the elk, I definitely try to stick to running the ridgeline, staying as high as possible. Um, and, uh, you know, and being able to look off one side of a ridge and another, but not only use my eyes, but you know, that also just allows me to hear, um, both sides very efficiently. And then from there I'll be, you know, I'm all right with dropping into a bottom of a Canyon, but when I'm just trying to find elk,

Um, you know, like I definitely like to stick to the tops, um, and, uh, and, and also camping, you know, just from a, from an efficiency standpoint, uh, I like to try to camp up high as well. Um, just cause I feel like that gives me an advantage over a lot of other people, uh, because usually, you know, there are exceptions of course, but usually, uh, finding water, drinking water is a big

big problem is, you know, like when you're camped up on top, um, there's usually not water up on top, but I usually still try to camp up there and it's just worth it to me to have to go out of my way, make a special trip, you know, drop, you know, a thousand feet or 1500 feet in elevation and pack water back up because it's

I just feel like it also, it just prevents me from ever like worrying about being late to, you know, a glassing spot or being tempted to leave early because I have a long hike out in the dark or whatever, you know, just being, being able to camp close to the elk, I feel like is a, is a big advantage too, just because a lot of other hunters are generally wanting to camp closer to water. What I found is a lot of times if I'm camped up on top, you know, I can be already be making a play on the elk before the other hunters even show up that day.

Hopefully, I'm in an area where I don't have to deal with hunting pressure, but that's getting to be way harder to find than it used to be. I just kind of factor that in. If I don't have to deal with other hunters, great, but I just kind of figure that at least at some point, if not every day, that's going to be a factor.

For sure. All right. Yeah. Thanks for those tips. And now we're going to jump into elk calling and your strategy and, you know, anybody that's watched you, you know, over the years, you know, sometimes, you know, you're a little more spot in stock. You aren't afraid to use calls at times, but let's go in to kind of your strategy. And the older I get and people might laugh at me for being a, you know, owning a, running a game call company and, you know,

Sometimes spot and stalk might be the best method because those bulls don't have any idea that you're on the landscape. If you're keeping the wind right, doing everything else right, you got that element of surprise where some people feel that when you call, you're giving up the surprise attack or giving up your location. So what's your opinion on calling? How do you kind of use calling to supplement your elk hunt? And give us a little bit on that.

Well, it's something I'm definitely working on improving because I feel like really

really like kind of everybody has like, uh, like methods that they prefer. And generally that's probably just going to fall in line with what they're, what they're most skilled at. And, uh, you know, I don't know, I wouldn't say that I'm like, like super, super skilled when it comes to spot and stock, but I'm definitely more skilled at spot and stock than I am as a caller. And it's just a confidence thing. You know, it's been like, like over the years, I've definitely used calling, uh,

you know, to locate elk, but I just have had, I've lacked confidence. Like the last thing I wanted to do when I actually got close to elk was blow on a call just because of fear of just messing everything up. So,

you know, over the years I have been, you know, more silent, but I'm also, I'm just trying to get better at being opportunistic to where I'm just trying to get better at recognizing a situation and just adapting in the moment. I'm trying to, I'm definitely trying to make that a priority because I mean, and don't get me wrong, I've called in, I mean, there's been a lot of like times over the years where

I've tried to get close without making a sound and realize, Hey, that's not going to happen. And also recognize, Hey, I'm in a perfect spot. I'm going to throw out a cow call here or a bugle. And I've had it work. I mean, I've, I mean, even no, I ha I don't really feel like I I'm, I'm a skilled caller. Probably, I don't know, uh, 30, 40% of the elk I've killed, I've called in, or at least calling was, you know, the reason I ended up killing that bull, uh,

But I'd like to see that number improve just because I know that it just has to do with my confidence level, my skill level. So it's something that I've really put a big emphasis on over the last couple of years, just improving the quality of sounds I can make and the consistency because it's also just like anything else. I mean, it's one thing to do it at home, you know, and then to do it when you know, like the elk that are 150 yards away are going to hear you.

So it's definitely something I've been working on and just trying to recognize that. I mean, if there's a bunch of other people blowing on calls in the area, I'm probably going to be less likely. But if I get into a canyon where the elk are being real vocal and aggressive and I'm not seeing a bunch of boot tracks, I should probably switch gears from going, hey, don't be quiet. I should probably go calling first because when that works, as you know as well as anyone,

Like it can be over really fast when the conditions are right. Yeah, for sure. And you kind of touched on a little bit like reading the situation and I feel like

you know, over the last 10 years, that's what's maybe helped me become more successful was being able to read the situation. Like this is, we've been in this situation enough. We've got the experience that, Hey, this, you know, I've seen bulls act this way. They've had this many cows, this many satellite bulls, you know, I couldn't approach with a spot in stock. The only answer is the call, like being able to look at a situation and know and say, all right,

Bowl A, I've got a 13% chance of calling. I'm being real exact here. But hey, that bowl over there, Bowl B, we wouldn't want to call to. We would want to approach with spot and stalk because of where he's set up. And we've got really good approach. And the terrain lays out in a way where he'd never see me coming. And then look at Bowl C. I think being able to evaluate, use your experience, use the bowl's location, how vocal he is, all of those things, and make an educated decision on...

you know, whether there's three bowls or whether there's, you know, a single bowl that you're going to go after, like knowing what gives you the best shot. And then what I've really been working on lately is, is whether to be patient, like that's never been an option. It was always, you know, hustle over there and call to it, hustle over there and spot and stock it. But now it's, Hey, maybe waiting a night and attacking that, that situation or that setup in the morning is going to be best.

And I feel that's starting to lead to more consistent success with me versus just being young and dumb and charging in every time, putting some information together, having enough experience to make a good decision and then executing it. - Yeah, no, I totally agree. I guess that's another reason I like

hunting in open terrain, because I do feel like, just like what you're saying, it gives me a ton of confidence if I can actually see that bull and his behavior and just the way that, you know, his mannerisms, how he's interacting with other elk. Like if I can see that, it's one thing to hear their bugle and it's like, well, he might sound pissed, but that doesn't mean like he's an ultra aggressive, you know, elk that's just intolerant of any other bulls around him. But if you can watch him

You can usually get a pretty good idea and it can change. I mean, you might watch the bull one evening and go, man, he's just, you know, he's just kind of tending his cows. Doesn't seem ultra aggressive, you know, like doesn't seem like a great situation for calling maybe. And then the next morning, you know, there might be a couple other bulls over there just got him super annoyed. And you can look at it and go, geez, if we can get down there and just squeak off a bugle, like the way he's acting, he's probably going to come over and check it out. Yep. Yep.

Well, yeah, that's great advice on calling and, uh, you know, using it when it works and then, you know, not being afraid to go, you know, spot and stalk to, to, to finish off the hunt. Um,

So one thing I've noticed, Nate, and no fault of your own, but it's hunting. A lot of your hunts over the years have come down to final days or even hours. Are there any tips you can give the listeners to stay focused, stay committed to the goal? I've been able to gain confidence just because I've had enough experience where I wasn't willing to go home empty-handed. But shoot, no matter how good...

good. I executed everything, no matter what happened, you know, the wind's still the wind, the elk are still the elk. And, you know, we do end up killing something on day eight of, of a 10 day hunt or day nine of a 10 day hunt or shoot last year. Um, Ryan Lampers and myself, we killed on the last 10 minutes that we had in, in New Mexico. Um, how do you stay positive? How do you stay committed? Um, are there any tips? Um, you know, a lot of it comes with mental toughness, but I want to see if you have any tips out there for keeping people

um, you know, you know, sticking to the goal. Uh, and it's something that might not be able to be taught, but if, if you have any advice, um, I'm sure everybody would, would love to hear it. Well, I guess one thing for me, um, that just kind of helps me, um,

I don't know if it stayed positive. I'm a little bit more, I'm more of a pessimist than an optimist. But I guess one thing that just kind of keeps me, you know, more locked in is just that I almost feel like that feeling that you get when you're like, it's completely hopeless, like that we have no chance, like this is not happening. Like, I almost feel like

That is prerequisite to killing an elk. I just kind of joke around sometimes with Randy. It's like when we both get to that point where we're like, we just feel like idiots. Like we're completely wasting our time. Like we totally forgot how to hunt elk.

I just feel like, okay, well, you know, we've got that out of the way. Now we can go kill one like that. I just feel like that's, that's, you know, like it's not, it's, you know, as awful as it feels, I just feel like that's how it always feels. And it just kind of reassures me that it's like, this is not, even though in the moment on that hunt, it feels extra special. Like it's like, nope, this is worse than normal. And it really is like, that's just how they all feel. And I guess that probably has to do with the fact that like 90% of the elk hunts that I've went on

have been over the counter like general season type hunts and they're almost always tough with low odds of success

You know, most people go home empty handed. Like they're tough hunts to begin with, even though like I've had some bright spots, like I've had some days that were incredible over the years. Most, the majority of the days are very difficult. And even on hunts where you end up taking a bull, it wasn't because the hunting was incredible. You know, it usually feels impossible. And I guess just because that's what I'm used to doing, you

Um, you know, like I just, I don't let it get like, get me down and it kind of helps me stay focused knowing, Hey, I might only have a day left or an evening left or whatever. Um, you know, it happens when it happens and you can go from, I mean, it literally can, I have a lot of the elk I've killed an hour beforehand. There's no way you could have convinced me that I was going to be standing over a nice bull. Like it just, when it happens, it happens.

Yeah. And that's, that's what I use is my motivation because it is drawn from experience, but I think by, you know, passing on our experience to somebody that maybe hasn't been there is very similar to those hunts, like day six or seven, we're struggling. We've moved areas, you know, the next area is okay. We're, we're in elk, but just nothing's coming together. You know, the wind swirling, whatever it may be, we're just not gonna, you know, we're never going to kill an elk here. And then it only ever takes out one time. Um,

Um, it's that one bowl where the wind stays right, he's committed and it's over just like that. And there have been a few hunts where nothing ever went right besides that one 30 minute window, you know, where that bull comes in, we're able to execute everything and kill it.

But, uh, it's knowing that on day six or seven of a hard hunt, things aren't going your way, that it only takes one. It only takes out one bull in the one area, um, to do a few things wrong. And for us to do a few things right. And you would never know that that was a bad hunt. Cause all you're going to remember is a success. And, uh, so yeah, we, we feed off of that, you know, past, uh,

experience that it only takes one. Yep, absolutely. I mean, I love it when the bulls are going crazy and everything, but most of the elk hunts that have ended up being successful for me, that's pretty rare when that happens. And

I've killed bulls on hunts where I've only seen one bull and I've killed bulls on hunts where I've never even heard a bugle. So, you know, that just reinforces, you know, the fact that you just can't let tough hunting get you down. You just got to, you know, stay after it because you never know that, you know, just over the next rise, you know, that might be where it all comes together. Yep. Yep.

Let's jump into the shot. And you've talked about it just a little bit ago that you're spending a lot of time on archery. You know, if you're anything like us, we at some point throughout a day probably think about elk, you know, 365 days a year. We're gearing up, we're looking at gear, you know, whatever it may be, we're always building success. But everything we do all year long comes down, in my opinion, to one shot. And we have to execute that one shot. You

You know none of that counts besides killing foam when it comes down to it You know you get one shot and when you're in your driveway or in your yard or at your range a lot of times You know you're pretty comfortable your heart rates. You know where it needs to be you're not sweating You don't have you go out in the mountains You know you might just put on a heck of a stock to try to cut you know off some some elk You're probably sweating you've got an elevated heart rate You've got a you know

seven, 800 pound live animal on you. You got a machete, a mosquito, a mosquito, maybe, maybe chewing on your neck and you've got to execute that shot. Can you give,

you know, the listeners some, you know, your shot process to make sure when it comes down to it, you execute and make a great shot. And there's a component to this that, and you may be able to elaborate on it. It's tough because when you finally get your chance, if you haven't been in that position a whole lot of times, it's tough to control your emotions as well. So kind of wrap up and I still get excited. So I still have to kind of walk myself through that, but you go through that shot process and how to execute a good shot when it matters.

Um, well, I guess this might not be the best answer for an elk hunting podcast, but it's, uh, honestly, for me, one of the things that, well, definitely the thing that's helped me the most is just the, uh, high country mule deer hunting that I've done and what that's led me to do. Um, because on average, uh, you know, taking a shot at a high country mule deer and steep terrain, they're, they're a smaller target than an elk. They're usually, it's a lot harder to get close to them. You're not going to be calling them in.

So usually a lot more challenging shots. And because I usually try to get in high country mule deer hunt every year, you know, a lot of my my my bow build and my training has to do with setting myself up to be successful for that. And, you know, like a nice byproduct of that has been if I can get.

my setup and my, uh, you know, dialed in to make longer shots at mule deer and steep terrain. And I can, you know, get my, my equipment dialed into where I feel comfortable with those shots, like shots on elk feel really easy. Um, and you know, and so my training has a lot to do with really preparing, like when I'm doing my training instead of my bow, like I'm really, I'm not thinking about elk. I'm thinking about that, you

you know, one shot that I might get at a high country mule deer and knowing that it's going to be potentially a lot longer shot. And, you know, they have a tendency to jump the string. So I'm really focused on trying to get my arrow flight as quiet as possible. My, my, my bow is quiet as possible, but I'm just, I'm really like when I'm practicing, I'm really challenging myself, stretching out the distance and,

Um, you know, and shooting, uh, you know, at long distances at my 3d deer target, um, you know, and just really trying to get comfortable, um, you know, holding my pin in a, in a small area on long shots and all that translate into like,

when I get to full drawn elk like it usually feels uh really super comfortable just but but if all I did was elk and that's all I was gearing up for you know I might I might approach it a little bit differently and you know those shots might feel a little more challenging but I know like being geared up for those deer um you know definitely like it's a huge uh you know byproduct is just you know I feel so much more confident on elk but one thing I do for elk

Very specifically, and I'm sure it helps me on deer too. But one thing for sure, as you know, on elk, like,

you never hardly ever get to shoot in rhythm. You know, when you're out practicing on the range, like you draw back, you know, you, you hold about the same amount of time, like everything's like in rhythm and you kind of have a shot sequence you go through. Um, and that almost, almost always gets blown up on elk. I mean, a lot of times you end up, you know, having to draw and then having to hold for a very long time because you see that bull coming in and you draw when you have cover. And then, you know, he might pop,

stop and pause when you don't have a shot and then he comes a little closer and then you finally do get your shot or the angle's wrong and you gotta wait, might have to step over to the side. So, so much of that, your normal sequence goes out the window

And, uh, not only do I like to practice that, you know, shooting out a sequence or maybe getting to full draw and taking a couple steps, you know, one way or the other. Um, one thing I really like to do is end my shooting sessions with, uh, and I, and I like to record all this and document it so that I can see the growth, but I'll, I'll, after my shooting sessions over with,

Um, before I hang my bow up, you know, I'll just go in the garage and I'll get my iPhone out and I get the, um, you know, the timer, uh, stopwatch out on my iPhone and I'll just, you know, hit start and I'll draw back my bow and I'll hold it as long as I possibly can. And then, uh, when I let down, I'll stop it. And I just write, write that number down on my whiteboard. Um,

And then I also usually write down like how many, how much, what the poundage is on that setup and what the percentage of let off is just so I have that as a reference point. And then, and then after I do that, um, I will, uh, I have this like rubber band that's made specifically for archers. I think a company called like MD 50 gear, I think that's the name of the company that makes them, but they make this rubber band. It's got a handle on both ends.

And, uh, I can't remember. They have a couple of different poundages, but I have the heaviest one. And then I, I, uh, I also use the timer on my phone and I'll set it to like 45 seconds and it'll start timing and I'll draw that back and I'll hold it at full draw for 45 seconds until my phone beeps at me and then I'll let down.

And, and I'll do that three times. And I kind of build that up, you know, I probably I start out at like 35 seconds, and then I end up as I build my strength to for 340 seconds holding 40. I'm constantly just trying to get to where it's like, almost seems impossible for me to hold that last one back.

Um, uh, and I really like, you can see it when you, when I'm recording it on my whiteboard, you know, from when I start that, you know, and I, and I don't like start that like right away when I, you know, and I shoot pretty much year round, whether it's, you know, in my, in my shop in the wintertime at 20 yards, I shoot year round, but I don't do this, uh, routine year round. I usually start this like in June, um, and then ramp it up to hunting season, but you can just see that growth. I mean, the, the amount of hold time just increases substantially, uh,

And I can feel it when I'm shooting, you know? So when I feel like that's just a really huge asset when it comes to hunting elk in particular, I mean, any hunting, that's going to be an asset, but elk hunting in particular, just being able to increase that amount of time that you can comfortably hold your bow back and still execute a shot. I just feel like that's invaluable because I know you've been there over the years as many times I have where it's like, you've held so long. You're not even sure how your pin is like wiggling all over the elk, even at 20 yards.

And that's just, you know, it gives me a ton of confidence. Yeah, I'm completely on board with you there. There was a day back when I thought I needed to shoot an 80-pound bow, and then I realized that the longer I can hold with a 70-pound bow was way more important than, you know, getting an extra inch of penetration. And one thing I found, especially when calling elk,

Um, there, you know, probably seven, eight years ago I was getting, you know, and before that I was getting caught drawing, um,

A lot on, on Collins as bulls came in, I would wait too long. And so then as of late, I've started drawing a lot earlier, which has given me a lot better chances, but just like you had mentioned, I'm now, um, holding my bow for, you know, upwards of a minute, a minute and a half. Um, one particular scenario, 2016 in Idaho, uh, we called a bull in and really sparse timber. And I, I had seen him come over the rise drew. And I think I held to like two 16, uh,

Um, he only had to let, and finally had to let down the bulls at 25 yards. I'm like, I can't even make a shot on this thing. Like I have no more control over holding this where it needs to be. Thankfully he went out the 35 and I had just that little five second rest had given me enough to get drawn. And, um,

um, killed the bull, but yeah, hold, holding your bow. Um, you know, I don't, I haven't subscribed to the tips and tactics of like, you know, once your cams rolled over, like holding it against your leg or any of that, I usually typically just stay focused and on the animal. Um, cause then if you're holding it on your leg, you still have to come up, you know, to your peep and do execute. So I,

I don't know what that bias on people when they roll the cam over on their, their leg, but yeah, drawing early is, is way more beneficial. But then as you had mentioned, everything you're practicing to hold longer is you're going to have to, you're going to have to be comfortable holding for that long.

yeah i would it would freak me out to try to hold my cam back anyway just i would be so afraid that i would derail the string off of the cam just because you know how there's really not a lot of torque at full drop just because of the let off like it would be super easy for something to go wrong and that uh that that string to come right out of the track but i mean i'm sure some people must have perfected it but i would be scared to do that so yeah just trying to increase my holding strength is a

is the route that i go but another um thing i guess i like to do um with that rubber band and this doesn't have to do with holding strength but it does have to do with um you know just feeling good is i was uh for a long time i was um you know and i still i shoot a ton um

And I was ending up with a lot of neck pain and back pain and stuff. So I kept going to the chiropractor. And he's like, man, he finally figured, he's like, you're lopsided. You're using all these muscles on one side of your body and not the other. He's like, you need to draw your bow back backwards. And I'm like, well, you can't draw. The cables are in the way to draw your compound back. So for a while, I was stringing up my recurve.

just so that I could draw it back left-handed just to try to balance things out. And that's, well, that's part of my routine now. And that rubber band makes it really easy to where when I'm doing that, when I'm resting in between my 45 second holds that rubber band, I draw back reverse and just try to exercise those muscles, balance things out. Um, and that in combination with daily stretching has really helped where, you know, it's like, I don't have to go to the chiropractor, you know, hardly at all anymore. And I do attribute it to, uh, to that, at least in part.

Yeah, that's great. Great information for everybody. And, you know, getting to see, you know, good archers like yourself, you know, getting to shoot around Brian Barney and some of these guys that are just, you know, amazing that you guys make me want to be a better archer, you know, because I've always just been like, ah,

six and you know, elk's got a 12 by 12 kill zone. I get it within six inches. We're, we're well within the margin of error, but you know, watching, watching some of you guys pound tight groups at long distances, you know, preparing for what you had said, the, the tougher target in a mule deer, um, has made me want to, to, to get better at, at archery. So no great points there on, on executing the shot and how you prepare, you know, for the, for, for when the shot comes around.

In closing here, Nate, if you could leave everybody with one kind of golden nugget to become a better elk hunter or something, you know, maybe people aren't thinking about, what would it be? I guess it would really just to be adaptive. You know, it's something that...

You know, I'm really trying to get better at it myself. And I do think that it's really helped me. I know for sure it's hurt me over the years going into hunts with tunnel vision. Like here's what I'm, this is my game plan. This is what I'm going to stick to that. And, you know, I've ate tags over the years, just being hardheaded. And I feel like just being adaptive, you know, and

you know regardless of what uh method hunting style you're more skilled at or you just prefer you know just don't get tunnel vision you know don't just just think hey i'm only going to try calling or only spot and stock or only sitting over you know over water over wallows like you know just uh to be more opportunistic to try to just read quickly uh you know situations quickly and adapt

Um, you know, don't be afraid to try new things and, uh, you know, and just, uh, you know, and that kind of ties in with,

uh, you know, like you were talking about earlier, like how long to stay in an area or move, like, don't be afraid to, uh, to keep moving. Like if you're not finding elk or you're being frustrated, like keep moving and like all that stuff, just being, being adaptive, um, opportunistic, you know, just rolling with the punches and having, you know, really good backup plans ready to go. Like I just never, ever go into a hut with one area just because even if it looks perfect, like some little hell hole that nobody else is going to want to go to, like,

today's day and age, like there's going to be somebody else there more than likely. Like I always have went into hunts with backup plans, but you know, now I feel like in today's day and age, like, you know, having plan A, B and C is probably not enough. Like I like to have a pretty good plan, you know, for, for multiple areas, just so that if things aren't happening, like I'm not going to try to grind, you know, and be frustrated in one area too long.

For sure. Yeah. We always use the analogy of, you know, have all the tools in your toolbox. You know, you'd a carpenter would never show up to build your house with a with a crescent wrench and a Phillips screwdriver. You know, he's got a specific tool for everything that he does. And us as elk hunters, you know, be be armed with as many tools, have your toolbox completely loaded up and then know how to use, you know, at least use most of them.

is going to make your job a lot easier. So we really appreciate having you on here, Nate. Can you let anybody know, you know, you're not all over social media, but, you know, can you let people know about Western Hunter, where they can find you, you know, where you're airing, any of that sort of stuff?

Um, yeah, so, uh, no, I'm not on social media. I'm one of those weirdos, but, uh, and I guess right now I'm not even totally sure what I, I think I heard that the Western hunter, uh, Instagram page got shut down by like, cause they thought it was, uh, you know, to, uh, you know, like anti-hunting, uh, anti-hunters, you know, didn't like it or something. But I, I think we've got,

uh, Western hunter magazine still has a page and that's kind of where they're sharing some of their, their stuff. Um, so, you know, uh, Western hunter magazine on, on Instagram, I believe is the place. And then, um, yeah, then Western hunter, uh,

We're getting ready to air our 10th season on the Sportsmas Channel beginning the last week in June. So the season 10, the new episodes will be airing there beginning then. And then all of our past seasons are available on the

um, uh, the Western hunter website, um, uh, for people that, uh, get a super subscription to the magazine, they get access to, um, all of our past seasons. You know, there's like, you know, well over a hundred episodes there, all, all the previous nine seasons. And then those seasons are also on the sportsman's channel, a digital platform as well on the MOTV app. I think it's, uh, my outdoor TV. Um, and they have an app and all of our past seasons are on there as well.

Perfect. Well, I really appreciate it, Nate. You know, one of the few guys I've, you know, looked up to as an elk hunter and always, you know, liked the way you did it, liked how humble you were and, you know, consistently get it done year after year. So thanks for joining us and good luck this fall. No, it was an honor to be on here. I appreciate you asking. Thank you.

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