Ep. 124: Guiding
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As a guide and hunter, I've spent thousands of days in the field. This show is about translating my hard-won experiences into tips and tactics that'll get you closer to your ultimate goal, success in the field. I'm Remy Warren. This is Cutting the Distance. Welcome back to the podcast, everyone. It is pretty crazy. It's already almost the end of the year. It just seems like yesterday I was recording an end-of-the-year podcast, and here we are again. For me, it kind of flew by.

But this week, it's kind of into the hunting season. I'm in my hunting lodge here. Just got done with a lot of guiding and got the fire going. I'm just flipping through a few photo albums, some old pictures of some guided hunts I'd done in the past. Kind of reminiscing and then just realizing I've got about a hundred stories and noticed there's quite a few that I actually forgot about.

But I really do love guiding hunters. And for me, it's always just been a way or at least starting out was a way that I could be hunting all the time. Just as someone that's obsessed with hunting, I thought there's got to be a way I can do this all the time. And for me, that was getting into guiding.

Hey, I mean, really, I kind of made it a year round gig. I'd travel the world chasing the seasons. I'd go to the Southern hemisphere when hunts would close down in the North, travel different States. And then of course, throwing my own hunts in there for a lot of my adult life, I probably spent way more nights in a sleeping bag than a bed. I actually still sleep. Like when I sleep in a bed, my arms and legs are crossed. Like I'm in a mummy bag because of it, but that's just a different story in itself.

I think one of the things that I'm most proud about is just having that background and experience base as a guide and an outfitter. And well, of course, building a good business and working really hard for it. At the time, I was one of the youngest outfitters in the state of Montana. But more than anything, it was just a lifestyle that I enjoyed because I got to be out hunting.

And two of the questions that I get asked a lot are actually kind of two different sides of the coin, but I figured I'd answer both of them in this podcast. The first is,

is regarding how do you become a hunting guide? I get the question a lot, like, how do I do what you do? It seems like an awesome lifestyle. I love hunting. I'd love to be a guide, but there's really no job fair for it. There's really no good, like, this is the plan that you go through. How do you become a hunting guide? So I'll answer that question. And then the other question is kind of the opposite side of that coin. Guy's saying maybe, hey, I'm going to go on my first hunt out West or I'm going to, I really want to hunt this particular species or this particular area. Um,

You know, what's the best option? Should I go DIY or should I go guided? And then, you know, if I do choose to go guided, how do I prepare and be a good client? So this week, I'm going to answer all those questions regarding guiding, picking a guided hunt, being on a guided hunt, or becoming a guide yourself. But first, I want to share the story of a recent Canada moose hunt and a little behind the scenes that I've been itching to share and an encounter where the bull cut the distance for us.

This hunt took place in Newfoundland and we were chasing moose. It was this year, actually. I told the story of the caribou hunt, woodland caribou hunt. And while I was there, I actually got the opportunity to hunt moose. And a friend of mine, Jed, was hunting moose as well. So the two of us had moose tags. I was archery hunting. He was rifle hunting. And...

I released a video today, so you should be able to go watch it if you want. And I thought it's fun when you have a video because you can actually see the hunt. But then I was kind of thinking about it. I was like, well, there's all those moments that you don't see in a video. Those kind of like the things the camera doesn't capture. So kind of like behind the scenes story of the story, I thought would be kind of a cool story to tell.

This particular hunt, we were with our guide, Daniel, same guy. So this is actually the first year I've hunted in Canada because of that restriction where a lot of places in Canada, you have to have a guide, or there are a few places you could do like a hunter host thing if you know someone, but it's only for certain species and fairly limited. Canada actually is fairly restricted in like different provinces. If you don't live in that province, you can't hunt without a guide even. So I'm kind of restricted in that way.

But anyways, find myself in Newfoundland and we were chasing the moose. One of the things that, so we flew in, we got choppered into a pretty remote location. I had set up a base camp and we were just coming, kind of coming off the tail end of a, I guess it'd be a hurricane, like the few weeks earlier, really bad winds, but

I think like there was other guys out, not where we were at, but just other places. And, you know, it's just kind of been like dismal hunting, I think only because of bad weather. Some of the guys that we had talked to, you know, just encountering a lot of wet and we kind of landed in this perfect break in between that really bad weather. Anytime you're hunting, you know, you're going somewhere, not one thing that can always like jack up.

what you're expecting is really bad weather and i'm generally the person that hits the bad weather so i was like we were kind of delayed a little bit um getting into camp because of the weather once we got out we had a few openings where it's like okay it's we're actually gonna have decent enough weather to do some hunting so i've shot moose before but my buddy jed was hunting with me and he'd never taken a moose so i was like oh i was kind of thinking about it i was like all right

I'm going to kind of look for, I don't know if I was, I wasn't really going to be super picky. We didn't have a lot of time. I'm thinking two moose and then one to have time to caribou hunt afterwards. But I was like, well, you know, it's kind of like depends on the scenario, but Jed, I'll let you shoot first. You know, you haven't shot a moose. He's like, sweet. So,

Anyways, I'm going to kind of fast forward to the behind the scenes part because you can watch the video. And I think that's like, you know, I'm always the person that's like, if you could read the book or watch the movie, I'm the watch the movie guy first. Not always. Sometimes the books are good, but just, you know, I like to see it. But there's some things in the hunting story you can't see. So we're getting set up and Daniel's calling us.

And we just moved down from camp calling and we see this cow moose kind of across the way and just like watching a glass and her switching between, you know, some guys are kind of like switching between rain gear and no rain gear. Cause it's like, you know, you're wearing your rain gear and it's wet. Like the ground's wet. Everything's wet in the morning.

So you got your rain gear on, keep from getting soaked. But then if you're hiking aggressively, as things start to dry out, if you're just wearing your rain gear, then you're just raining on the inside as opposed to getting wet from the outside. So you're going to be wet no matter what. So a couple of guys swapping gear out and whatever. Daniel's calling. We're looking at this cow moose and then I hear like a stick break behind us. Slowly turn around and there's just like, he's like, he wants to come in.

Like, so I whispered it like, I don't think anything's recording this morning. I whispered Jed like, Hey Jed, there's a nice bull. You should probably shoot it. He's like, sweet. And then, so we like, we start to move and I realized like this bull is coming and I've got my bow. I was planning on hunting second, but I'm like, now this bull was like on a beeline for the call. And it's at a point where I'm kind of thinking like,

man, this is going to be, this is too close to shoot with a rifle. I better shoot with a bow. And it just kind of happened. Like this bull was just normally when you can kind of like make a play and make a plan and do whatever you might have a little bit of time. This bull was just on one. He was ready to come in. He was ready to fight swaying back and forth. So it was like, Jed's behind me. I'm like, well, looks like I'm up.

So I've got my bow and the bull's like slowly working his way in, standing there waiting. It's like, I've seen this happen on videos. Every time I've been moose hunting myself, the moose don't do this. And I've guided Shire's moose hunts where they just, they get in like this trance and it's like, you could pretty much get away with anything within reason.

And that bull's just coming in on a string. He's just like so fired up on testosterone that he's just going to come in. He's going to rake. He's going to do his thing. And he's coming. He's coming in hot. For me, when I've had a bow in my hand, that's never been the case. Like it's always you make one small movement and they blow out or it's

It just seems like that does happen. But in my mind, it's like, oh, that only happens on TV. It doesn't happen for me. And here it's happening. I'm like, oh, this is awesome. So this bull's kind of like in that bull trance, swaying back and forth, coming in, starting to rake. We're in this like little bit of a burn area. And, you know, kind of like I've got this tree at my back.

It kind of feels like we're out in the open, but also like utilizing what available cover we've got. Daniel's gut is shoulder blade, kind of mimicking an antler. Sometimes I'll use like a paddle or something like that, but shoulder blade makes a pretty good sound, just like a dried out shoulder bone. So bull's coming in and it's just like getting closer and closer. At one point it's raking. So I'm like, all right, I'm going to draw when he's, you know, I still don't want to do something stupid, but,

make a movement and get, get busted and, you know, have them standing there facing us or whatever, not get a good shot. So I draw back and I'm just holding, holding. I'm like, I'm just waiting for him to take another step. And he's just busy raking and then starts walking straight again, like right at us. His head goes behind something or actually started raking again. I let down and, uh, okay. Just waiting, waiting, waiting. Now he moves, he passes behind something where he can't see me and I can draw back again, draw back, uh,

I'm waiting for him. Takes a step, opens up the shoulder and send an arrow through. Well, uh, Chris is one of the guys filming was actually just like, so we, the three of us, well, this is a big crew. Cause when you've got other people filming, it just kind of exponentially increases the amount of moving parts. So I guess it's like, I got to draw a diagram. There's me and Daniel. I've got the bow. Daniel's calling. There's,

Jed, who's got the rifle, who's right behind me. And then there's Nico, who's got a camera filming. And then there's another guy, Chris, who's got a camera and he stopped where we first started. Well, the moose is coming right toward Chris and, uh,

At this point, like, I see Chris over here, the moose right here, and I'm like thinking, oh, yeah, Chris is a good buddy of mine. I would hate to shoot this moose and have him run Chris over. But I also knew that there's a big deadfall in front of Chris.

So, you know, I, I shoot the moose and it was pretty close to Chris. I mean, it's like runs toward him, but not real far. And then, uh, turns and I put another arrow in the bull at, uh, probably like 20 yards at that point. First shot was pretty close. I didn't, uh, range it or anything. I didn't have to, I just said, yeah, top pin.

Moose is down, pretty nice moose. We're like, well, okay, that happened fast. We were kind of expecting, you know, see a bull, you know, kind of get them to come in like they sometimes do where they're like kind of interested. And it was just like this bull, we're distracted, turn around, bull's coming in hot, make a move, shoot the bull. So then it's Jed's turn up to bat. So we hunt, you know, a few days and have some encounters and get some weather and, you know, things go how hunts go.

And it's getting down toward the last, it's probably kind of like, I don't know if it's the last day, but it was getting toward the end of that. And so the night before we did this huge hike, I don't know, we, we hiked like all the way out back around maybe 13 miles, something like that. And, uh, get back to camp, but just before shooting time ends.

And we hear this bull like grunting off in the distance. And we're like, oh, geez. So we beeline down the ridge past camp. So we now blow past camp.

And we're trying to like get in there. You know, it sounds like he's close, but also a ways away. So generally, you know, and it's kind of like anything when you're calling, you know, you might call and you've got to cover a considerable amount because you aren't going to call that animal off of something else. Like you aren't going to call a bull off of a hot cow, for instance, probably not going to. So we're calling and, and as we're moving in, we're trying to just using the calls to keep an eye, like tabs on him. And we're going to cross through this little Creek bottom and,

All of a sudden, we hear these willows breaking. And it's like, dude, this bull is coming to us. So, we get set up. The bull, like, it's just like, of course, the worst possible spot. All this thick willows. And this bull comes through the willows. And I look and I see just a big wreck. I'm like, whoa, this is a really big bull. This is a nice bull. You want this bull, Jed. And so...

I'm like, but where Jed's at, he can't see him. Of course, Chris, I think the moose were like attracted to his, I'm joking, but it's like, he had like this big camera lens and they're just like walking straight toward him. He's not moving. He's like frozen. He's got a good view of him. None of none of no one else does. So we try to try to reposition to get a shot. Both catches the movement wheels around runs off. Like that's a bummer. That was a really good bull. So gets dark, uh,

next morning we're like, well, I don't know if we blew him out of the area or what. Um, so the plan was, uh, there was this good glassing, like you climb up the mountain, kind of see over some of the burns and a few bogs off in the distance. And because we were limited on time, it was like, well, let's split up. Maybe, you know, Daniel and, uh,

Jed are going to stay down and call kind of where that bull was. If he's still around, I'm going to go to the top of the mountain and just glass. And then they're going to meet up with me. And then that way, if nothing happens during the calling, then we can, I can kind of like be like, well, I saw a moose go over here in bed and do this whole thing. Right. So I'm sure you can guess what happens. I split up from those guys and,

I get just to my glassing spot, right? I just pop over the glassing spot. I look down below me 200 yards away. Here's that big bull, like standing there, bro. I'm like, you've got to be kidding me, right?

So I'm like, I was going to like, if I saw something that we could go after, I could make like some cow calls or something. They could hear me making my moose calls and then come up and we could make a play or whatever, or I could go down or whatever. But the bull is too close to do anything. So I'm like, okay, well, they know where I'm at and they're going to meet me here. So I'm just sitting there watching this, just like freaking out. Like, oh man, dude, come on guys. Just, okay. I can hear them calling down lower and

obviously this now I'm looking and there's like 13 moose around. It's just like a moose magnet. There's just moose everywhere. Little bulls, the big bull. And I've got this thing just shot after shot broadside, just standing there 200 yards and Jed's rifle hunting. So I'm like, all right, come on guys. Like,

So that bull's there and he's just there forever. Like this never happens. You know, if I, it's always when you leave somebody that's got the tag, that's when you see the big one. Right. So I'm like, all right. So I hear them walking up to me. I'm like, okay, finally I put my pack down. So as soon as they get up, I'm like, okay, these guys can just make a shot. This is going to be great.

literally the second they come up, like not because it was spooked, the bull, just like the cow, like they just move off into the sick stuff. I'm like, guys, there's a really big bull right here. They're like, yeah, yeah. Okay. I was like, no, I mean, I've had this thing like all morning standing here broadside, like just staring off in the distance, just standing there doing bull moose things. And now as soon as they get there, of course, like Murphy's loft, that bull just goes into the timbers.

And I'm like, okay, they could see some of the cows and some of the other stuff. And I'm like, no, there's a big bull in here. I showed him, we got a little bit of video and stuff. Like, all right, he's there. So we're like, okay. So in our wisdom, we're like, they're like, we're going to go, we're going to stock in. And I'm like, okay, I'll stay here and watch that way. If they like blow out or something happens, at least we'll know what happened.

So they leave. And what do you think happens? As soon as they leave, the bull steps out again for like another three to five minutes. So I'm like, crap. So I just watch him. I'm like, okay, well, at least we know he's still here. So I'm watching and then disappears. And it's just like nothing. I'm like, man, they should have shot him by now and nothing. And so just waiting, waiting, waiting.

45 minutes goes by I don't know it seemed like forever I'm like alright I don't see the moose anymore I see a couple cows so there's still some cows there and I don't know I'm like I'm just gonna get in my snack bag eating snack or whatever and then I hear boom sweet okay they got him

And, uh, I was like, Ooh, I hope he got him. Was it a hit? Was it a miss? And then a few minutes later, I hear like, boom again. So I'm like, all right, I know that he got him because there, you wouldn't have two shots that spaced apart. So like, sweet. So pack up my stuff, work over there. They ended up getting in there, but the, the, it was like so thick once, you know, from my view, I had like a wider view. And then when they got in tight, uh,

They actually saw a lot of cows and whatever, but it was just so thick that they didn't have a shot on the bull or didn't even see the bull. So I don't know when they, when they got in, I guess I wasn't even there. It was just like kind of a cluster, I guess, like,

not a good rest bull stepped out, like just one split second shot. Jed made a good shot, anchored the big bull and we had the big bull down, but I was the whole time just sitting there like, dang, they should have been here earlier. I was just worried the whole time. So walked up on the bulls, like really good bull for the area.

I'm pretty stoked. Cut them up. Jed got his first moose. I shot a nice bull with my bow, pretty close range. And it was just an epic hunt, really awesome hunt. Got to do a good hunt with good friends. It was fun being in camp with, you know, one of the things, um,

I always think about, it's like people are like, oh, what's it like? Like, what's it like guiding a guide? You know, it's like thinking on like Daniel's side. But, you know, for me, I've been on enough or guided enough hunts that it's actually really enjoyable to be, you know, it's like you're sharing guide stories. You have very similar experiences and you're around a guy that does it for the same reason that you love to. I think it was just a really cool experience.

that I got to do this season and it was a lot of fun. I do have video of it as well. So, but I think that was kind of like the behind the scenes part that I think was, I don't know, just something that you don't see of like, and it's very classic as far as when it comes to hunting of sometimes with the things that you plan aren't the way things go, even when they work out.

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I really essentially just devoted my life to helping people go hunting. You know, I'm a big proponent of DIY public land hunting. And I try to give hunters the necessary tools to take on those hunts on their own. But I also guide hunters. So I think that some people think of those two things as like mutually exclusive, like one and not the other. But really, it's not always like that.

Just because you like to do DIY hunts doesn't mean that there isn't a hunt that you couldn't benefit from going on guided hunt and vice versa. Maybe you've never been on a DIY hunt. Maybe going on a guided hunt is a good entry point into that type of hunt or a good way to experience something with somebody that really knows what they're doing.

So, you know, I, I mean, I personally prefer to do hunts by myself. That's how I really enjoy the hunt, but there's also other people that enjoy the hunt by, you know, being on a guided hunt where they, they've got somebody else's taking care of the logistics. Somebody else has done the scouting, somebody else has done whatever. And they, you know, are able to go and experience the hunt with somebody that really knows what they're doing or has done it a lot. Um, so I think that the two things, you know, when you're like, oh, I don't think it,

I don't think everything has to always be so polarizing, especially when it comes to hunting. You know, we're all hunters. We all enjoy the same pursuits. And it's like, I don't need to be like, oh, this guy is a do-it-yourself hunter and only that. I was like, yeah, I'm a do-it-yourself hunter. And I also guide hunters. And occasionally there's hunts where I need to go on, you know, a guided hunt for various legal reasons, various whatever reasons, logistical reasons, whatever.

So yeah, I think that the two things, like it's still a, definitely a good option to think about when you're thinking about planning that hunt, planning, maybe that first elk hunt, planning a hunt out West, maybe planning a hunt where you drew a special limited tag or something like that. So I feel like we'll just kind of dive in and talk about the reasons why, like some good reasons why you might want to go on a guided hunt as opposed to do yourself, or at least like look at all the options. So

The first is kind of the, a major one. And this one for me is the choice where it's like, these are the kind of the guided hunts that I go on. It'd be like legal restrictions. There's certain areas, Alaska for mountain goats, sheep, and brown grizzly bear. You have to have a guide legally. Pretty much if you're a U S resident, um,

And if you want to hunt anywhere in Canada, you have to have a guide. There are a few exceptions with some hunter host things that I mentioned before, but I mean, by and large, you have to have a guide. Now, even if you're a Canada resident of one province and you want to hunt and say like BC, you actually have to have a guide as well. So if you live in Alberta and you want to hunt in BC, you got to have a guide. Now there's other like access logistics. You know, when I was guiding a lot in New Zealand, I,

You know, there's a lot of places you could hunt and it's like, I do, I mean, I went over there and the reason that drew me over there was being able to do some DIY hunts in essentially public land DIY hunts for myself. And then, but for most people, it's like you're traveling all the way around the world. Do you have the logistical ability to get in there and do those hunts yourself? Some people, yes. Majority of people, no. So they would hire a guide.

Another thing would be like equipment restrictions. Something where, think about like a backcountry hunt in Alaska where in order to access it, you might need a plane or a boat or something that's like very hard to get where you're at. It's not just like where you can show up, rent a car and hike in. It might be a unit that's

X amount of miles from the road, you need a plane to access it. Or even like, let's say a wilderness hunt where it's just better to have a string of horses, or maybe you're going to go do a specific hunt, like a mountain lion hunt, and you need to pack a dogs. It's like there's an equipment restriction for something you don't have. A guided hunt that I went on recently,

Something that I really wanted to do for a long time was hunt snow geese. But I was like, I didn't have 2000 decoys. So I was like, okay, instead of buying 2000 decoys, I could go with a guy that has the decoys and has the property or whatever. And, and still have that experience of hunting snow geese. Another reason, like if you think about looking at a guided hunter going DIY, I

Having a special tag or a once in a lifetime opportunity. I think if I think about the kind of hunts where I would, you know, potentially go with a guide, there are a few hunts that I thought if I ever drew, I would hire a guide, even though I really enjoy the aspect of, you know, doing it myself. I've done almost the majority of, I would say 99.9% of my hunts have been DIY hunts.

aside from, I suppose, a couple in Alaska where I'm able to, you know, you have to have a guide for legal reasons and then Canada just this year. So, you know,

But like I thought about it and I was like, man, if I ever drew a Missouri breaks sheep tag, I'd probably hire a guide because I know that there's 200 inch Rams and I know that I would want a 200 inch Ram. And I know myself and know that I would have to scout the whole season and probably hunt every day of the season and know that it would probably just be better to hire somebody that has already done that over the years and knows where the Rams are and has access to certain areas and whatever. Now I don't have to worry about that because I don't actually even put in for that unit.

But if I did and I drew it and if I randomly put in for one year and drew it, then I would probably hire a guide or maybe like an Arizona strip mule deer tag where it's like, yeah, you are never going to draw this again. It's just lucky that you got it.

And it's like one of the best hunts you could go for. And there's, you know, you could put in the time, but you might not have the time to put in and you wouldn't, and you'd want to do that once in a lifetime opportunity justice. Good friend of mine, uh, this year drew an Arizona strip mule deer rifle tag. It was like, had hardly any points. It's like, all right.

you know, he was not expecting it. And I think he made the right move. He hired, you know, one of the best guides in the area. And it's like, yeah, it costs a lot more than just going out on your own, but you're also, you're paying for that experience of these guys are the best. They know the area they know, and you're never going to get that tag again. So you might as well do that tag justice if you have the ability to do that. And then, you know, the flip side is, you know, that's a, that's kind of a decision that you can make if you know that opportunity arises. Um,

Now, another reason guys maybe think about using a guy is just like your physical conditioning. Sometimes older guys that maybe aren't in the best shape don't have the time to backpack or the ability to backpack into an area. So they hire a guy because of logistical reasons or maybe just better access, like something where it could be private land hunt where they've got, there's going to be an easier, physically easier hunt, better access to, I don't know.

animals that are unpressured, no other hunters, or it could be something where you're just like looking for an experience that you can't get somewhere else. So those are kind of reasons, benefits of going guided. Now, just if you're talking about general, like let's say a guy's like, ah, I'm going to go on an elk hunt. I really want to get an elk.

So you could say, well, you can go, you can do it yourself, public land, unguided. And I think the average guy, you know, this isn't necessarily people coming from a hostile area, but I read this, what was it? Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation a long time ago. Don't know if it's still current because there's a lot of new technology out there, but it was like one in every seven years, a guy would kill an elk, like just on his own DIY. Even people that live in areas where there's elk, it's like one in seven years. I'm thinking like, man, that's crazy. Yeah.

But that's a long time. And then with a guide, it's like cuts it down to like one in two years or one in three years. So you cut the time to success in half. And if it's with a really good guide, it probably even less than that. So.

you know, the opportunity of having success. Or then the other thing is just somebody that maybe doesn't know over the course of my guiding, there's been a lot of people that I'd taken out that had never really had those big game opportunities, never had somebody to show them kind of got into it, got their feet wet, never found success. And so it's like, let's go with somebody that really knows what they're doing, where I can pick up some tips and things that I can use back home, wherever I hunt, where I can, uh,

kind of learn from my mistakes or kind of be shown the ropes and like feel comfortable and confident and maybe get that first success or at least that experience with somebody that has some form of expert knowledge. And we always talk a lot over the course of this podcast. I've talked a ton of, you know, you get into the field and here's what you can expect. On a guided hunt, I think that you should also have like, here's what I can expect. And I think the one thing to expect is like,

No matter what the guided hunt, unless it's like some kind of high fenced thing, success is not guaranteed. Even if you pay a lot of money for whatever kind of hunt, it's never guaranteed. It's wild animals, it's wild conditions. Anything can happen. Weather can happen, whatever. Even if it's in a really high percentage area, it's

nothing, I would say nothing is guaranteed. There's places where it's a lot higher likelihood that you would kill something. I know that there's, you know, you see, I've seen videos of guys hunting some private ranches for elk and it's like, man, if you couldn't get one there, you aren't going to get one anywhere. You know, the opportunity abounds. But while I'm over here, just like grinding it out for some public land, general unit elk,

You know, you could be over here on some other place chasing private land, really well managed herd that gets zero pressure. But even then, success wouldn't be guaranteed, you know, unless, like I said, that's those, you know, high fence thing. But I don't know if that's its own deal. We're not even talking about that. So, you know, another thing to expect is the fact that whether you go guided or not,

There's only so much a guide can do for you. I used to always say like, as a guide, you have to do everything except pull the trigger. And that includes like even helping guys set up because you want to make sure that that shot's successful. But as a guided client, what you can do is you can shoot and you can hike. If it's a physical shot,

hunt, then you need to be in physical shape and prepared. And then also prepared with whatever you're hunting with, whether it's a bow, whether it's a rifle, whatever you need to be prepared with it, because that's going to increase your chances of success. Somebody can only help you out so far.

You know, they can, they can spot the animal. They can show you the area. They can get you in on, they can call the bull in, but they can't shoot it for you. So you have to be able to keep up to, you know, I would always tell guys, like guys would ask, what's your success rate? And I'd be like, well, if it's me and I'm out hunting, it'd be like a hundred percent.

But that would mean that you'd have to keep up with me exactly and be able to shoot. And so, you know, by adding those two factors and it really kind of changes the success rate or the chance of success. So if you can manage the things that you can manage being in shape, you know, if it's a physical hunt, I mean, if it's a, now I would say on the flip side, if it's like a non-physical hunt, like let's say the,

white tail, say you're a tree stand hunter, a blind hunt, then you have to also then in that case, be able to sit or to be able to do the task that you're supposed to do. And then also be able to make a clean ethical shot. And that comes with practice at home in the off season before the hunt. And those are the things that you could do.

I think it's good to talk about, you know, in like, I would see this podcast as a very DIY centric podcast, but also there's so many, you know, by getting so many questions from people about like, I don't know about guided hunts. I don't know how to like, should I do a guided hunt? I'm kind of going this route or thinking about this thing. I'd like to try it myself, but don't have the time.

So, you know, you just kind of got to factor in. I think for a lot of people, if you factored, if you penciled it out, they're probably about equal in cost going guided or going unguided. Because if you go unguided, it might take you three or four years to figure it out, maybe more to figure it out, to get comfortable, to be successful. And there's a lot of guys that go out the first year and find success.

But for the average person, that's just not what happens. So, you know, they do it over the course of multiple years and it takes a while. And then, you know, you've got your time spread out, but you can do it yourself. A lot of the fun is in that planning preparation and finding that success yourself.

on the flip side, you know, you can, you can pay more for a guided hunt, but the logistics are taken care of. The scouting is taken care of the transportation and the camping and all those kinds of things are, are taken care of. So you don't have to think about that other stuff. You don't have to spend that extra time. If you got a limited amount of time or whatever, it's a good way to get into success earlier. And, you know, in the long run, sometimes it just pencils itself out. So it's really just more of a personal choice, but,

And sometimes factoring in those other things. But it's good to talk about because obviously a lot of people are interested in it. I think one of the questions too is like, how do you find a good guide? And I hate to say it, but the good ones are probably already booked out. You probably can't get with them. I know being a new father, if I were to go find a good daycare place, they don't have them available. They are all booked out. I know because I'm on like eight waiting lists.

Or like a good, we want to try to get our daughter in swim lessons. It's like the place that you want to go to, no spots available. The best you can do is get on a waiting list and you probably won't get in. And I hate to say that, but that's true. So, you know, as somebody that's been on a couple guided hunts, you know, I'm more on the guiding side of it than the

going on the guided hunt portion. But one thing that I would always recommend to clients, they would even book with me when I was starting out, is call some of our references. Guys that have been successful, guys that haven't been successful. See, especially the guys, the guys that you want to talk to are the guys that weren't successful. Because the guys that are successful probably are stoked. But that's not always the case. Talk to some people. Word of mouth is probably the best way. There are, I know when I was starting out, I was trying to book hunters and

It was difficult. And the guys that did book were like, whoa, this is the best time we've ever been on. And so it was like, you could get in on the ground floor and have something good. But, you know, just talking to people that have been on the hunt, it's a great way, you know, talking to somebody that's reputable. I actually kind of, I mean, I've got a lot of friends, you know, I've been doing this a long time. So I'm fortunate enough. I've got a lot of friends that also do the same thing. We know we run in the same circles. We go to the same convention kind of things. We hunt together. We do things outside of,

in the off season or one guy will come down and hunt or guide with us and we'll go up there and do the same. Just depends, you know, like back and forth. And so through that, I've got to meet a lot of good guides and know a lot of people that, that are good. Um, I actually kind of like have been starting a little booking agency kind of thing just to recommend people to places that I know are, are pretty solid. Call it my Remy Warren expeditions. If you want to check it out, go for it.

it. You can get kind of my recommendations, but you know, outside of that, just kind of finding places, you know, talking to people that maybe have been on hunts, whether it's friends, word of mouth, that's a great way to do it. You know, you could do the random internet search and then once you find something kind of just do your due diligence and,

Talk to people that have been there, I think is a good way and just get a good feel for it, you know, but there are out there. I hate to say it because I am as an outfitter. There are a lot of jokers out there, man. You got to be careful. I guided over the years, many hunters that have gone on hunts. There's probably more bad ones than good ones. And I hate, it's really, really, really unfortunate.

But there are some good ones that are really good and they do the whole experience right and they know what they're doing and they're professional and they're experts and they hire expert guides. And it's an incredible experience to go with somebody that does that for a living. And so, yeah, you just got to kind of, I wish that there was like an easier way to

to figure it out, like weed through the sift through the garbage, but really it's just word of mouth and talking to somebody that has done the hunt or like, you know, has a good reputation. Now on the flip side, maybe you are a guy like myself, there's just a guy or gal doesn't matter. Um, that is just absolutely, um,

obsessed with hunting. And you're like, man, I just want to hunt every day possible. I was like, cool. I remember my first guiding job. I think, I think maybe I've told this story before. Maybe I haven't, but anyways, I factored it out. Right. I was like,

It's kind of a long story, but anyways, I, the outfitter that I was working for had a heart attack. I ended up having to like take care of the horses, feed all the dogs, um, get up, cook breakfast. Cause the cook had to rush him to the hospital, like cook breakfast, do dinner, do the dishes. I think I slept like two hours a night for seven days. I'm not the type of person that could take naps. I just be like, if guys were napping in the middle of the day, I'm glassing. Like I'm just, I was just working my ass off. Right.

And I think I penciled it out. Like I had to pay for gas in my vehicle and had to get to this particular places in the Swan Valley in Montana, like around the Bob Marshall. And it was, you know, drive from where I was at. My truck got like eight miles a gallon. So I had to cover my gas and I had to have a guide license, which is like a hundred bucks. So that first guide trip that I guided, I think I made like 17 cents an hour.

And I was like, ha, jokes on you guys. I would have done this for free. You know? I mean, I got, after that first week, I was like, man, what these guys didn't know is I would have done this for free. Like, I was so stoked. I was like, I want to do this the rest of my life. Like, this is so awesome. I was like, this is the best thing ever. You know, and if you're that type of person where it's like, that's, you know, you want that lifestyle, then guiding is for you.

And I think, you know, I actually wrote an article for Western Hunter Magazine many years ago talking about how to be an elk guide. But...

you know whether it's an elk guide whether it's whatever i think the first step it's kind of similar to anything but you have to have the passion for it and then you know the easiest way to get into it someone says remy i really want to be a guide how do i get into it i say the first thing is look for guiding jobs where you're at the areas that you know really well like if you are in missouri and you take people out and whatever like find places around where you hunt because you're familiar with it you know you can build that reputation

For me, I decided that I wanted to guide Montana because it was like a consistent season compared to, I grew up in Nevada, but I also, my grandpa lived in Montana. I hunted every year and knew the area pretty well, but I ended up just like loading up my truck and driving up and just being like, all right, I'm just going to like be here until I figure it out. And I knew the area really well.

But I went into an area that I knew really well and then ran into an outfitter that was like realized that I knew the area really well. I was like, let me give you a job.

Because if you're in a somebody somewhere that you know, and like that barrier of having to show someone something is gone, then it's going to be a lot more likely that you're able to secure a guiding job. So I know that there's a lot of people who are like, Oh, I want to go do one of these guide schools or whatever. And they ask about that. That's not the way that I did it. Not saying the way that I did, it's the only way to do it. So I know that there's guys that have gone to some of these guide schools and kind of got guide positions, but

But I think that the first step would be kind of figuring out somewhere close by that you're already familiar with. Areas that you already hunt, places that you've already been. That's the easiest way to kind of get your foot in the door, in my opinion. Guiding is just like any other job. You know, you got to have a resume. You know, I hate to break it to most people who are like, I'm not, I don't really hunt that much, but I really enjoy it when I go out and I want to make this a living.

That's great. But you need the experience. It's just like anything, man. If I was like, I would really like to do brain surgery, but I didn't go to school for it. And I didn't like, I know nothing about it, but that's really what I want to do. But what's the easiest way to do that? Now, I don't want to do that like long route of like having to learn an area and do all this other stuff. I just want to do it.

It's not going to work for that person. You know, I'm not saying guiding is brain surgery, right? There's a big difference there, but it's just like any job, man. You got to have the knowledge base to get hired to do something. And so you need to build up

your skills, you need to build up your resume. And that might be just like, obviously taking people, not for money, but just like taking people, your friends out, hunting as much as possible, like getting that experience. It's like when a buddy has a tag, I was the guy that was always there. I'm like, let's go hunting. Let's go, you know, like building that up. And so when somebody, when the opportunity for a guide job

presented itself. It's like, here, I've got like this experience, this experience, this experience. I can show somebody pictures from all these hunts that I've been on. I already had the experience and the knowledge and became an expert in what I was doing. Now there are other routes to get into it. And so the other one that we talked about was like this guide school thing

You know, I think that that's a really good one for, you got to kind of decide the type of area that you want to work in. So you're like, let's say you're from Pennsylvania and you're like, I want to be an elk guide because that's like, that is the dream. That is the pinnacle of, in my opinion, elk guiding and sheep guiding is like the tops. It's the best.

So you're like, but I don't have elk where I'm at. And how do I do that? Well, there is an option to do guide school kind of thing. But what that's mostly teaching you is it can't really teach you no matter what they advertise. I'm just going to tell you to straight. You aren't going to learn how to elk hunt really well doing that without actually elk hunting. But what you will get is horse experience. You know, you'll learn how to pack horses. You'll learn how to trail horses. You'll learn you'll be a good packer.

And from there, you can kind of build your way up into getting experience elk hunting because there's the nice thing about those kind of areas, wilderness type guide areas is you don't necessarily need to know that specific area. So I always would break it down into like picking your job and then building your resume based on that job. So if you're like, hey, I want to...

get into elk guiding, you know, but I don't have any experience in a particular area, then I would say there's two kinds that are good for you. Wilderness type areas, because you don't necessarily need to know the whole area. You just need to know where you're packing into and then be familiar with horses and then have some elk knowledge. You know, there's two kinds of guides. There's the guides that

know the animal really well inside and out, and they could guide anywhere. You know, a guy that knows elk, he can guide in Nevada, he can guide in Utah, he can guide in Arizona. It doesn't matter. You bring him to a place where there's elk, that guy will find elk. And that's somebody that has a lot of experience chasing elk. And then there's the kind of guy that maybe doesn't have that same amount of experience, but wants to gain that experience. So that's kind of maybe somebody that's looking for a job that's not necessarily have that

certain experience, but maybe a job that doesn't necessarily need that experience is like where you can gain that experience as you do it. So that guide school would probably be a really good way to get your foot into elk country through packing, through learning about horses, because you can, you can learn that skill.

And it's like, I wouldn't say it's like a, it's like, that's something that can be taught without having, and you'll get that experience while doing it. And then as you get years of going into the field, you'll start learning about elk, you'll start understanding how to elk hunt, and then you can build some of that elk hunting skill. So I would say the first thing is, you know, obviously get out, get experience. And then with that experience, go to places that make sense to get a job, somewhere that's nearby, somewhere that you can,

I've interacted with hunted with somewhere that you can kind of understand, like there's guys that know an area. Um, those guys are always probably at the top guys that know an area and then know how to hunt the animals in that area are probably at the

you know, top of the resume heap. And then there's those guys that really know the animals and can go anywhere. Those guys are at the top. And then there's, you know, kind of the bottom, the guys that are like working their way up, but they've got to do other jobs to kind of get up to that position where they can actually eventually guide. So that's how I would say if I was your like hunting guide school guidance counselor,

Those would be my tips and how to make hunting and outdoors lifestyle living. One thing I should say is I think a lot of people don't realize, and this is every state's different, but as many rules as there are for hunting, there's probably even more rules and regulations that

over guiding and outfitting because it's not something in most places. Now I'm, so this is just like one of those things, like learn the laws of the land. I don't know where you live, so I'm not giving you legal advice for anything, but I am saying that it's not something where you can just say, Oh, I really want to be a guide.

So you just throw up a website, start advertising and have people pay you to take them out. That's not legal almost anywhere. There's a lot of hoops that you have to jump through. There's a lot of things that you have to do. So there's guides and there's outfitters. So a guide is the person that was like in the field physically, like, um,

taking the person out. And then an outfitter is somebody that's allowed to hire guides. So in most states, especially out West, only an outfitter is allowed to receive money. And it's actually a felony to call yourself an outfitter if you're not an outfitter. Like in the state of Montana, that would be a felony. If I said I'm an outfitter and I'm not an outfitter, that's a felony because there's so many hoops that somebody would have to jump through to become that position that if you don't have those requirements, then it would kind of like circumnavigate

a system that's set up that includes like liability insurance, that includes legal permits to be on certain lands, like forest service permits, state land leases, all kinds of stuff. There's a lot of different things. So generally, if you want to get into guiding, you have to work underneath an outfitter that's licensed, that's insured. Generally, you have to have your own license or your own insurance. In order to be an outfitter, you often have to take a test. You often have to

you know, have certain permits and other things. So it's not something you can generally just start up and do. Now, every state's different, you know, maybe the Midwest or East, you know, if you're on your own private land, that kind of changes some things, certain places, obviously you got to look into that, but, you know, you would have to start under an outfitter, generally speaking, get a license through whatever state you're in,

And it is a very regulated kind of thing. So accepting money to take people hunting in most places is illegal unless you have the proper licensing. So I should put that out there as like, just so people know, because I don't think a lot of people realize that. And there are a lot of hoops and a lot of things that you got to jump through to do that. So that's why you always start out working as a guide underneath an outfitter. And then from there, like,

When I got my outfitting license, you have to have 100 days registered through an outfitter before you can even test for your outfitter license yourself. So there is a lot of things that you have to go through. But to start out, you would be applying as a guide underneath an outfitter. And that's the way that you would start to get into it.

Thank you all again so much for listening. As always, I appreciate all the support, comments, everything. Next week, we're going to be doing one of my favorite episodes, which would be the Christmas special. I don't know what it is about the holiday season, but I love doing the Christmas special. I'm going to be doing a massive giveaway. I got thousands of dollars worth of gear, including a fully kitted out Matthew's bow to your exact specifications, some Schnee's boots, a Stone Glacier pack, T-shirts,

tent sleeping bag some stuff from vortex optics some stuff from yeti some day six arrows and broadheads a little bit of everything you need to go on a awesome bow hunting adventure of your own

minus the tags. So if you want in on that giveaway, you got to go to my website, remywarren.com. You can scroll to the bottom and there's a little thing to enter your email address. If you enter the email address, sign up for my mailing list, you will be automatically entered. If you've already done it,

You're already entered. You don't have to worry about it again. If you haven't, go in there, sign up for it. Hopefully you're the winner. Maybe you're listening to this now and you're like, that could be me. That definitely could be you. I appreciate you all so much. And until next week, let's say, let your heart be your guide. A little bit of Jiminy Cricket wisdom.

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