Ep. 13: 20 Years of Elk Hunting Experience with Cody Rich
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Today's guest has a lot of irons in the fire. He is the host of Rich Outdoors podcast. He's the owner of Backcountry Fieldbox. He's kind of started up the Rich Ideas Lab, which is a little bit of a motivational talks and ideas for entrepreneurs. But the reason I have him on the podcast today, he's also a damn good elk hunter, a good elk caller. I met Cody Rich at the Oregon State Elk Calling Championships probably 10 years ago. I can remember very distinctly, he walked in with a

duct tape, camo duct tape, like hose hooked to a big yellow wiffle ball bat. And I'm like, man, that guy sounds good. You know, he's not using my calls, but he sounds pretty good. And to my surprise, and this isn't a dig on you, and this is one of the reasons I don't like podcasts, is I don't think you made the finals that first year.

I met you and I was like scratching my head. I'm like, man, that guy was good. And so that's when I met you. I think we've stayed in touch ever since. You know, I've been on your podcast. We've talked elk hunting. I followed your, you know, follow everything you've been doing. So, you know, it's cool to finally have you on here. And how are you doing, Cody? Good, man. Dude, that was kind of like,

the tail end of the competition stuff for me, I was actually kind of like one of the bitter moments. Uh, but back in those days, I would say like pre, uh, pre Phelps like that in the competition circles, like that was kind of like the go-to, you know, the wiffle ball bat, uh, with the, like some kind of hose attached to it. Like, you know, not everyone had a Phelps bat back then. Uh, so yeah. Uh,

Yeah. Good times. Yeah. But like, again, like dude calling competitions can be so finicky. It's like, you can think you crushed it and then just like not even place. You're like, ah, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I hate him. Cause I, I feel like, I feel like I'm like my own biggest critic and very honest with myself.

But I also know when I feel like I did good and I've just been frustrated so many times, you know, did well at them as well. But then the beats are a lot or, you know, the bad beats are worse than the good wins. And I just kind of went there and supported some of our callers and provided advice on routines and stuff. But I'm kind of kind of over it. But yeah, it is what it is. How's everything out there in Bozeman? Yeah.

Good, man. Good. Just getting ready for elk season, getting pumped, getting, you know, just like trying to iron out all the little pieces before season. So, I mean, I'm stoked about this year. I am a little bit trigger happy, I will say, like going into it. I think the last two years I've really tried to hold out for big bulls. But, you know, that itch starts to come back. So I haven't killed a bow or an elk with my bow the last two years, which is the longest I've ever gone. And it's like, okay, now like...

Yeah. No holds barred. I'm not holding out for anything anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that, that makes, yeah, that's tough. Um, I remember back in, I think 2015 or I think when I didn't kill a bull and it was like first thing, you know, that next year, like the monkeys getting kicked off the back really early. Like I don't even care. We can, we can build from there. It's just a building point. So that's, that's good. So we're going to start this podcast really quickly. Like we do all of them before we jump in the meat and potatoes of the podcast. Um,

If you have any questions out there from our listeners, hit us up on social. You can email us at ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com. We'll take questions from past episodes, but we want to do our best to answer the questions. We'll get Cody's opinion on these as well, but one of the questions we get the most, and it's middle of July now. This will probably be air sometime in August, but as a beginner elk caller, what call should I get, which is kind of right in our wheelhouse? I'll give you my explanation first.

We have a diaphragm pack that is, we call it the beginner diaphragm pack, but I also want to put the asterisk on it that it doesn't, you can't necessarily outgrow it that quickly. It's just a good sample pack that will give you the ability to try diaphragms that are in different spectrums of our lineup.

If we were to just say, hey, go use Dirk Durham's call, the Maverick, and you were a light pressure, a finesse type caller, you would kind of write them off that, hey, these Phelps calls won't work for us. I'm just not going to be a good diaphragm caller. I have to do something else. So we try to pick calls that are going to cater to multiple styles. And then from there, once you decide what you like, we will make better recommendations on how to continue. But a lot of times, most guys or gals will –

you'd like multiple of those calls and it works, works fairly well. Um,

We have a brand new call we just released called the Easy Sucker. It really kind of cuts that learning curve down for people that don't know if they're going to be able to use diaphragms and need to have that confidence going in to season very, very quickly. And then on the bugle side, we, you know, if you want a bugle, which I highly recommend just to have in your arsenal, it's like a, you know, a carpenter showing up to build a house with, you know, half the tools in his toolbox or half the tools in his van. It just makes it easier if you have the right tools.

If you become a good diaphragm caller, you can pick up one of our plastic tubes. If you need assistance on bugling, the Easy Bugler is there. So all you have to do is place your bottom lip on basically the amp diaphragm that is an attachment to a bugle tube. Very easy to learn and cuts out learning curve down.

There's multiple ways to do it, but I always recommend everybody try a diaphragm. And then we have some new, you know, the Easy Sucker, the Easy Bugler, and then the Easy Estrus that really kind of cut that learning curve down for people that may not be able to master diaphragms. And then, you know, whether it's even our brand or something, you just have to make sure that the fit's right. There's so many different mouth shapes and styles and latex stretches. Like, you just need to find something that you're going to be confident with.

What's your recommendation for new elk callers? Where to start and try to cut that learning curve down as fast as possible, Cody? - You know, it's funny, like when I started, I remember getting reads and whatnot and trying to do it and then trying to help people do it. And like, it's such a learning curve to want you to get into the whole reads game, right? But I do think it's worth doing, it's worth practicing.

i say that because you you of all people have like made it so easy for people to be able to call without reads that now i'm like maybe i don't know maybe you don't even need them anymore because like you know the new sucker call like i i've always had either like an open read call uh you know some kind of external call uh and i like having that just like you said in arsenal just as a different call but a lot of those is really hard to hit those like soft

like you would with a read or something. They just have never historically been like great at that being quiet, right? Like we use them because I can hit that hyper love and get a bold, a bugle off a cow call. Yeah. Maybe he wouldn't answer another bugle. But now you have like this, the sucker call, which is like, you can hit those. I mean, it sounds so much like a read. It's crazy to me. And then same at the easier, easy bugler. Like I think those two, like honestly in today's day and age, you could get away with just those two calls.

as a beginner. And I even struggle to be like, yeah, I think you should get good at reads. But if you just can't, don't want to, don't want to put in the effort, then...

I think you'd get by on those two calls. No problem. No. And I'm, I'm a little bit torn. You know, there, there's the idea that I had to struggle through to get really good at diagrams and, and we're cutting that learning curve. But ultimately, um, at least this is what I tell myself so I can get over that is, you know, it's, it's really experience, you know, it's why would I be selfish enough to

to, you know, are selfish to the point where, no, you need to struggle through. And maybe just people don't have the resolve that I did to not give up or the time. So I, that's my goal going into this is we identify problems. You know, we get to listen to a lot of where they struggle calling people that just aren't having the same experience out there that we are because we can run diaphragms very well. And so that's really my point going in is let's make something where they can be

you know, 95% as good as us, you know, very, very quickly without as much time. And this is my other, uh, you know, this is at least what I tell myself. Um, I'd rather have a bunch of guys out there that can call good than a bunch of guys out there that are calling bad. And, and, you know, my reasoning for that is not educating elk, not screwing things up. And at least if you sound like an elk, um, there's not a bunch of education going on. So at least that's what I tell myself, but who knows if that's right or not.

Dude, 100%. I would rather have someone behind me coming in on me with the new sucker call than hitting a hoochie mama. Because how many times have we been there where you can hear them coming down the mountain? You get a bull. This happened to me last year. So I'm working this bull and I get right at daylight, I'm on him. And

it's very evident that calling, I don't need to call. It is pure chaos. And I just need to like stay close. Right. And I'm basically dogging this herd. And, uh, I hear it. I hear like the, the Primo's bugle. And then I hear the hoochie mama and I hear the hoochie mama coming right in and like, Oh, shut up. And I'm in like, I'm in the herd. Like I'm,

I'm in the red zone. All I need is just something to go right in my situation. I'm within 60 yards of cows. And here comes the hoochie mama. And they're heads up looking and they start to move away. And he just keeps hitting it. And they'd kind of go a couple hundred yards and I'd be right there with him. And here comes the hoochie mama again. And I'm like, I would have much rather had someone with a felt sucker call back there to her. At least it sounded somewhat like an elk. So I don't know. We've all been in the...

the hoochie mama situation yep yep so that's that's my recommendation on beginner elk callers there's no there's no right answer because we don't really know what a beginner needs you might be a high pressure high volume lots of air type of caller or you might be the complete opposite and finesse light subtle sounds and so there's no real good answer it's just try a few and then we'll quickly hopefully find a solution and then we can stick with that moving out

out the next the next question is more of a statement that i just wanted to elaborate on we get a lot i want to sound like a small bull what diaphragm should i get and they usually um follow that up with some scenario where they feel or tell us that you know sounding like a big bull is going to scare everything off and so i wanted to elaborate this on this um statement and kind of turn it into a question and give my my two cents um it came up at a seminar i was out the other day um

I've been very fortunate. My hunting buddies, Charlie Smith, Schmidt, Tyson, Gabriel, I get to hunt with a lot of great elk callers who are on the upper end of volume. They're good callers. They call loud. I've had Charlie 20 yards to my right and had a real bull coming in 70 yards to my left or whatever it may be.

And no matter what Charlie does or what I can do, we can't match the intensity of even some of these smaller raghorn bulls as they come in. Everything is louder. Everything's deeper. Everything's more intense from the real elk. And so I kind of turn that question on people. Why do you want to sound like a small bull? You know, and it's typically, I don't want to scare the big ones away or I don't want to scare the small ones away. I don't think it's possible. And then I'm also going to go on, um,

I'm a very loud caller. I've got a giant set of lungs on me. Whatever I did throughout learning to call, I figured out how to control read. And I would say I'm in the top 1% volume wise. So I get even louder when I'm out in the woods than I do on stage and whatnot. So very, very loud caller. But if you're going to look at my rafters where I grew up cutting my teeth here in my backyard, you will literally see the longest lineup of

150 to 170 type raghorn bowls that came in with me calling as loud as I can. So I used two different

you know, branches on this argument that number one, you can't call as loud as a real elk, no matter what you do. So why would you even want to, you know, tone that down, you know, or bring that back, cut that volume down a little bit anyways. But then the statistics, you know, the statistics and what I've been able to call in, even with trying to call big herd bulls in, usually I end up calling the satellite bull in with those large beagles anyways. So I'm, I'm a very,

You know, I'm a proponent. I advocate for going out and calling as big as possible. But what's your take on that? Do you ever go out? I mean, I will in certain instances and situations go out there and try to, you know, I will spike squeal. I will give out small raghorn beagles, but it's very, very pointed and in very certain situations. But most of the time I'm out there cranking at 100%.

Yeah. So I would say, generally speaking, I get where people are coming from. They want to sound like a small bowl. They think that has more options, right? I would say, like you said, I would...

I would say most people don't have the problem that they sound too big. They just don't know how to have the right inflection. And I would say far, far more people are not loud enough. That is a much, much bigger issue that like you're bugling too quietly and nothing can hear you, uh, is a far bigger issue. I've listened to a lot of people bugle. I've listened to Phelps bugle too, and he's ridiculously loud. Uh,

And so I would say like, there's, it's a far bigger issue that you can't be loud enough than you're being too big. Uh, like you said, like I can, I

I can run any call to sound. I don't even want to say small. I would say less aggressive is a better term. Um, and there's scenarios where I would use that. So like the first half of season, uh, you know, Elks Elker in a timber patch and I slip in there. I know they're in this area and I'm going to sound like a lazy bull. I use the term lazy bull more than I would say a small bull. Uh, and that's what the, you know, Ooh,

like it could be a small, but basically I'm just not being super aggressive when I don't need to be. Uh, and I think that's probably what people are trying to say, uh, more so than a small bowl. It's like, I, we've all heard really, really big bowls. Give us lazy bugles, you know, bugles from their bed, um, those types of things. And, and,

it's not that they're small, it's that, you know, they're, they're very passive aggressive in that. And I think that's what people are going for. It's like, how do I be more passive aggressive and not ridiculously aggressive? There's times to have both, right? You don't want to walk into a situation, you know, say you get into a timber patch, you know, there's milk bedded in here and you're probably within 200 yards. And then you just rip off a, you know, a big loud bugle and maybe these are pressured elk. And so they're just going to bounce out of there and not say anything.

you know whereas if i throw the lazy bugle at him you know maybe it takes you know five or six maybe 10 or 15 bugles over an hour period and finally i get a response out of him you know i'm not pressuring that bull but i'm trying to figure out where he is in this in this in this timber patch with me uh and so like again i sentiment to you that what you said is like i

I don't really try to sound small. There's just moments where I can give a less aggressive call. And I don't, to me, the read does not matter. I mean, Charlie's read would, I would struggle with it a little bit. I could still do it. You know, and so those, those, those are tougher to give the spike squeals and stuff. But I think pretty much once you can run a read, you can do it with any of them.

For sure. And I'm going to piggyback on this real quick before we jump out of the questions from the listeners. As Cody mentioned, volume is usually...

attached or a, you know, it goes along with trying to sound like a small bull versus a big bull. But, you know, for, for skilled callers, we can just tone it back. Like I can take my call, the Maverick, tone it back and sound smaller with less volume, but you can't go the opposite direction. If I'm using a call that's lighter and latex lighter and stretch when I'm hunting big Canyon country, you know, we might be in a 3000 foot drainage, 2000 foot drainage, big, you know, big country.

For me to get the game going, I need that call to reach as many elk as possible. So I'm taking as much volume as,

is I can get all the time because there are days or there are weeks where we go through where, you know, these elk just aren't really beagle on their own. We have to get them kind of going or we need, you know, it might be big country and it takes you a couple hours to get there. So we kind of miss the, the morning action and we still need to get these things to crank up. And I want that loud, you know, crisp diaphragm, you know, that is typically associated with quote unquote a

big bull read to to go in there and hammer them and another great option which really cranks up the volume even more is that easy bugler um you know mouthpiece it's just extremely loud but that's one reason i like to go out armed with a bunch of different options you know i can you know i do have lighter reads for real subtle cow calls but we can do it all but that's one reason another reason i like to go out there and have a big bull read or extra volume is just to reach and locate

Right. I mean, generally speaking, like in the old days, it was like you had cow reads and you had big bull reads and, and like, you know, those, those triples, you know, those heavy stretch triples, uh, you know, they, they can be tough to do those soft cow calls, but at the same time, those cow reads, like you just can't get very loud with them because when you hit that octave, that high pitch, it's just, it, you can't have the volume. And so you just can't really get the, uh, the locate as nearly as well, at least not as loud. Yep.

Yeah. So, well, once again, if you have any questions of your own, you'd like us to try to tackle here on cutting the distance, email us at CTD at Phelps game calls.com. And we'll do our best to get them on here. So now we're going to roll into my questions for you. Um, you had a post the other day on Twitter that seemed to gain a lot of traction and it brought up a good point. And I'm like, Hey, you know, that, that'd be a great topic, um, for the podcast. So we're just going to kind of run through these and, um,

What your post was some things I wish I knew about elk hunting 20 years ago, which is,

There's all kinds of what we did wrong, which we've learned from, but these are more statements that a little bit of skill, a little bit of mental toughness, a little bit of physical toughness. So we're just going to kind of go through, elaborate on how these have impacted and why we think these are things we wish we knew 20 years ago, because it's obvious we probably made some mistakes or it's been screwed up along the way. But I think most of us can look back at what we did 20 years ago, laugh a little bit,

And then, but it was all part of figuring out our system, what works and ultimately what made us better elk hunters. So the first one that we've got here and I, Cody, I just went to your Twitter post and we just kind of stole these. But so luck, luck is great when it comes, but consistency is the thing that separates the lucky from the unlucky. Go ahead and elaborate on that. And then I've got some, you know, some stories that kind of run into that or as well.

Yeah. Um, you know, I mean like consistency is, I think there's people, there's a lot of people who's, who'd go into the woods like, and they're kind of just going out there and be like, man, I hope I get lucky this year. And, and, you know, when it comes, it comes and like, um, I'll take the, those, uh, lucky strikes when they happen. Like one of my, one of my best bulls I ever killed, I was literally taking a nap and like almost got stepped on and, you know, had to crawl 15 yards to my bow and it was chaos. And like,

I'm not too proud to be like, yeah, I'll take that luck when it comes. But being consistent, I think when you look at a career over time, it's like just doing things consistent, finding your rhythm, finding, like you had said, your own system. I think we all have like, hey, here's what works for us. And we create that system and just being super consistent, being consistent in the days you put in, like doing the work and all those things like

That's what, when you find elk hunters who have been successful year in and year out, they got 20 racks hanging on the wall. It's usually they're very consistent, right? There's the same analogy in business. It's about doing the little things well. And I think this is 100% true for elk hunting. It's like, you know, you...

Instead of being like, oh man, that guy got lucky or, oh, he hunts private or he does this or whatever. It's like, no, they have a really good system and they learned how to execute it. Right. And they, they're very consistent within that system and they're very consistent year over year. And I think you'll, you find those things to be true.

Yeah, and same as you, I'll take luck when it comes. There have been multiple times where I can remember one time we didn't end up, well, we did end up later killing the bull, but in 2014, we were struggling. Kelly Smith, Charlie's wife, had drawn a Toucanon tag, and we were in elk every day. But just for one reason or another, nothing would work out.

Um, we had just screwed up on maybe our 20th bowl, you know, the hunt. And it's just like, we were just sitting there kind of just frustrating. And we could hear all of a sudden, uh, a satellite bowl ripping off. We didn't move from our spot. We're like, we were almost to the point where we were throwing a big pissy fit. Charlie didn't want to move. He's like, screw it. I'm not even chasing that bowl. Um, we literally sat there and that bowl ran up the ridge, uh,

crossed a little drainage and ran right back down the same Ridge and ran into us. Like that's luck. Like we didn't do anything. We were literally sitting in a spot and that bull, you know, came into us now, you know, she ended up missing, but that was, that was a hunt where like no skill was ever, you know, was required. Yeah. We had put ourselves in that spot.

But we didn't know that bull even lived at the time we went to that spot. And it literally ran right into us when we made a conscious effort to, we're not moving. But similar to you, I don't want to go out into the woods or out into the elk mountains, whatever you want to call it, with only having luck on my side. I want to build consistent success consistently.

year in and year out. And by being lucky, it's not going to happen. Like I think those are the, and not saying anything bad, but that's the other 10, you know, the, the, the 90%, that's the 90% of hunters that kill 10% of the elk. You know, it's, it's the, it's the guys that rely on that luck for things to come into play. Um, and so I expect, and one thing I just wanted to elaborate on this, which, you know, consistency, I expect to be successful in

Every morning, every night, every afternoon, everything I do in the elk woods, I've either drawn up a plan where I can honestly see the end result being me notching a tag or standing over a dead bull or my buddy standing over a dead bull. And if I can't get to the point where I feel that my plan is that consistent, I need to change my plan, right? Because going...

I'm not a life coach. I'm not a big motivational speaker, but we're getting a little bit there. If I can't drop a plan or buy into a plan where I can see that as an option somewhere throughout, you know, every, everything I do that day is a building block towards killing an elk. If I honestly don't believe that, and I've got to like talk myself into that or lie about it. I'm now going into that. I I've been there that, that situation I'm now hunting, you know, uh,

at a very low confidence and where you're just literally walking through the paces and you don't feel that everything you're doing is leading to that success. It's just not great. And so by consistency, like everything we do is a pointed movement, a pointed use of energy. And, and we're, we're trying to, to continue on that, um, you know, that consistent success. So,

Yeah, a little off track there, but that's kind of how I go about it in my head, that everything we do is leading up to that consistent success. And I think it's tough when you're first starting out. You don't have a system. You don't have gut intuition even, really. You don't have a base of knowledge, a base of experiences that you've built to where you're like, okay, I just need to keep doing this. We're hitting it. We're close. A great example, and I'm sure you've been here. We've all been there.

you're going out and sometimes you're like, man, you got 20 bowls that you just haven't gotten close to. Something goes wrong every single time. Like, man, am I being too aggressive? Am I not being aggressive enough? And then you start switching and you're like, oh, you're going back and forth. And what I've tried to do, and I'm not perfect at this by any stretch, but like, okay, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to execute this playbook

over and over and over. And I know this playbook works because it's worked in the past, but if I executed enough times, I'm going to be successful versus, well, maybe I should sit water. Oh, maybe I should just, you know, spot and stuff like you're switching up. And then you're like, you start to have that self-doubt. You're like, oh man, let's go over here. Let's go over there. And you start bouncing around. It's like, okay, we're not executing a system right now. It's like, you need to figure out your system and execute it well. Right. And, and

eventually it might not work out every single time, but you know, if you do the same plan, you kind of work through your system. And that sounds super boring, right? Like it sounds like, Oh, well, no, I want to just want to go out and be spontaneous. And I think when you try to just be spontaneous and go where the wind blows, that's a good recipe for like only relying on luck. Not, not entirely, but I would say like it leans a lot more that way. Yeah, for sure. And that your, your point there at the end kind of rolls into your next point is you

Being aggressive is a skill. Knowing when to be patient is a skill, but the balance between those two is an art. And so I'll kind of roll into this one first. I'm a very, very aggressive hunter and caller. And being patient is a skill I would say I've learned a lot more over the last 20 years because I would say you rewind 20 years ago, everything was aggressive and I wasn't able to

to, I don't say I wasn't able, I just was unwilling to roll that back ever. And as you just mentioned, my calling system is very, very prescriptive. We do this, you know, within some confines, it's always going to be a little bit different, but it's basically, we're going to check the wind. We're going to get as close as the terrain and vegetation allows us to. We are going to, you know, take his temperature. We're going to make this call and we're going to do that over and over and over. So I call it

you know, very prescriptive calling and a very prescriptive system, which usually is the underlying theme is us being very aggressive, getting very close, not letting time pass. Why, why we kind of got what we have on the table. But I also, as I've gotten older and one of the things that's probably, I would say have made me a better elk hunter or more successful elk hunter is being able to be a little bit more patient. And so this,

I now look at it like I have my base system, which is very aggressive, but I will make slight changes to that base system based on...

how the elk are reacting because i would be a fool to just say you know what these elk in this area aren't bugling quite like they were last year they're very lackadaisical but i'm going to just keep going in and hammering them and and you know seven eight nine ten times in a row just blowing them out so i'm like i'm still going to get close but i'm going to maybe change up my calling just slightly now i'm not going to i'm not going to be less aggressive but i may you know so i do i'm

I want to be aware and cognizant that, that my old system that worked last year or in a different area or a different area that had different bull to cow ratios, whatever it may be, timing of the rut, um, making, making slight changes. But I agree. Um,

I feel like I'm finally getting to that point where I know how to mix skill and, and add in sprinkle in just enough patience to, to make, make myself like, you know, a more balanced Hunter. And you, you said it's kind of an art, which is, you know, yeah, I wouldn't say anything about me as art, but it just, it's more of the idea that, that it's kind of just like made me a better elk Hunter at this point by not just going in. I can remember back in,

I think it was 08 or 09. One of my buddies, Trevor, decided he was going to archery hunt for elk finally that year. And I don't know if he was ready to like just loose an arrow into the back of my calf eventually. But, you know, the system that I had developed, we had busted probably, you know, that was back in the good old days here where not a lot of people were archery hunting elk.

And we had just been busting out. I'm like, this is a system I've used. Like we've been using it. We've been successful. And you know, we'd get in close and we'd end up blowing the herd out. And he was just like, man, I'm going to, I'm going nuts. Like we're about ready to, I'm not hunting with you anymore. And I'm like, you just got to trust in the system, you know, but it ultimately did work out.

But it was that style of I'm going to get 60, 70 yards from these elk and then we're going to hit them with a giant beagle. Where now if I was to rewind, like we would still get, you know, fairly close, but we would do things a little bit differently, you know, and it was just it's a difference on blowing four or five herds out versus maybe blowing one or two of those out and and getting Collins on the other one. So, yeah, no, I like that statement. And for me, patience has only come with age because I'm a super impatient elk hunter.

Yeah. And I don't know if it's, you know, with, with the age that we've become more patient, I grew up, you know, same as you, like, and that worked really well. I mean, we, we grew up hunting Roosevelt. So that was being aggressive with this name of the game. There wasn't nearly as many hunters and, you know, not to, not to pick on anyone, but it's like, I feel like

A lot of us cut our teeth in that super aggressive, blow them out, I'll find more elk mentality. And it worked for a lot of years. And in my opinion, I could be wrong, but I said, my opinion, that dynamic has changed a little bit.

And, you know, I went from, okay, I knew the call game. I knew it really was. I could do that. I had that system, you know, much like your system. It was like, I'll just keep finding more elk. And I know the system works. It just, it'll have to play out and it plays out. And now every year, you know, you'd play out.

And then I went to, you know, Eastern Montana and I, I actually, I, when I started hunting Montana, I learned from some guys that had killed giants and, you know, they never touched a call. And I was like, okay, I want to learn this. It's, it's not for me, but I want to learn it. And so I, you know, I, I went there and I've spent now almost five years, uh, and I do a lot more glassing and spotting and stocking.

I love the fact, you know, and to me, it's always been about mastering the game and not mastering one technique. And so it was like, I, how many times have I put myself in a situation where it's like, man, I could go in there and, and call these elk, but you know, I'm going to try to learn this technique of hunting this open country stuff.

And so now I'm at a place where I feel like I'm super dangerous, whether an elk goes into a thick timber patch or whether they stay out in the wide open. To me, it's always about just kind of learning, mastering the game as a whole and not mastering one system. But within that,

That taught me a lot of patience. You know, I still 100% believe there are times where I can go in and challenge a herd bull that's in a timber patch, even in the most open country, right? I just, I now know both games. Whereas most people who hunt open country would never think to go in there and do that. Like, no way, I'll just wait until my opportunity comes. And so like, that's the balance. To me, it's always been like, I was super aggressive in my early days.

And during that time, those tactics work. And then I became much more patient. And as I started hunting one particular bull, you have to be really, really patient. And I think I was sometimes too patient there. And that's why I always say there's an art when you balance the two of when to be aggressive and when to be patient. And man, that takes a lot of time, a lot of at-bats to figure out. But I do think there's a balance. And to me, it's like,

I think it's almost a necessity. I think there's a ton of people teaching, be super aggressive. And that's what worked for them. What worked for them 10 years ago. But now there's twice as many elk hunters. The elk are more pressured than they've ever been. And so I feel like more now than ever, you have to be able to balance when to make that move. I'm still fine with being aggressive, going in there and challenge bugling. But it's got to be a very calculated decision because...

you just don't get it as many at bats with herds, you know? And when we were, you know, I don't know, let's say 2005 to 2010, like it felt like you could just go screw up a herd, bounce to the next one, screw up a herd, bounce to the next one. And there was always more elk to be messed with, right? Whereas today it's like you getting less opportunities and you kind of have to be more careful. Not to say you don't be aggressive because I don't think that's the answer because I think you still can be aggressive in certain situations. Again, just fighting that balance.

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The next one I don't like, Cody, but I'm going to... And I'm going to elaborate on that. Learn to be comfortable alone. It's a superpower few have, which I don't. That would be my kryptonite. I've never...

Shoot. I mean, around home, you know, when I used to hunt here, I would hunt alone. You know, it was, I learned by the school of what I would call hard, you know, if there was a hard knocks of hunting, it was the idea that my dad and my uncles and my grandpa and his brothers learned to hunt this way. It was amazing.

I'm scared to death of big timber and they would drop us off in these big canyons here around home. You know, we would glass clear cuts the first hour and a half, maybe hour. And then they would drop you off in a timber patch and they would literally say, you hunt down this Canyon, there'll be a bridge at the bottom. We'll pick you up at five tonight. Um,

I'm like, I was scared to death. And, and I always joke with my dad, like I could maybe thank you for making me figure out how to be a great elk hunter right off the bat. I learned to kill elk because I was more scared of trying to get through this big timber patch and not get lost. So if I killed an elk, I could jump on the radio and tell these guys like, Hey, you guys got to come find me now, you know, versus me having to hunt for that, you know, next eight hours down a Canyon.

Um, and so I was kind of joked that it made me a better elk hunter because the quicker I could find these elk and kill them, um, unless I had to be by myself out there, but no, I, I don't do well. Um, and, and over the last, uh,

You know, I did some deer hunts this year by myself, but, um, you know, it's just one dayers like overnight really probably would get, you know, and it wouldn't bother me. It's just, I feel confident. Like I like the bounce ideas, even if it's my camera guy or if it's just my buddy, like, Hey, you know, the elk are here. Do you think that, you know, they're that far away? They're that direction. Um,

I don't have the superpower of being able to necessarily be alone overnight, multiple overnights. So I can't really elaborate on that one, but I agree. It is a great option to have. I just don't know how I guess I've never tested myself either, but I don't like the idea of it.

Which is probably why you should do it. And I think another one I said, I don't know if this is on the list you want to cover, but first off, I do believe that a great hunting partner is worth three times the cost of having another tag to fill. And a bad partner costs three times as much. And what I mean by that is like...

you go on a hunt and say, I have another buddy, right? I've been a solo hunter for so long that, uh, it seems funny to me, like why I would take someone else hunting. Cause it's like, now I just get to hunt half the time, you know, give me a 10 day hunt. And like, now I'm trying to fill your tag for at least five, but you know, I'm probably more than that.

And, and so it's like, it's always been funny to me, like, why would I take someone else? I don't really need anyone else. Um, and we've all been there on a bad experience where you, you take someone hunting and it's just like, oh my God, like it's, you know, they drag you down. They don't want to go places. Uh, you know, they're just mentally not as strong as you. And so it drags you down as well. And so like,

Outside of that, I do think that hunting alone, one of the things that I've been able to do is once you're at the point where you're comfortable with being alone and just operating in your own headspace, I don't have to rely on anyone else's decision.

Uh, that's good and bad. Right. But I also, I never have, I never not do something because like, even if you and I were together and maybe this is not the perfect example, but if you and I were together, it would be like, well, I don't know if I want to go down there. Uh, I don't know if Jason wants to go. I'll just, we'll just stay up here. Oh, we'll just do this. You know, like you tend to take things differently. You do a different procedure. And I've just found that when I'm alone, I push myself.

farther than if I'm with someone. And that sounds counterintuitive. But like, for me, it's just like, I've always pushed myself farther when I'm alone. And I'm like, okay, I can make this decision. I can move quicker. I don't have to think about it. You know, the one downside is that, man, there's so many times where I wish I could just be like, there's a guy calling for me a hundred yards away and this would have been a done deal, you know? But I don't know, to me, like,

It's just a, it's a great superpower because it allows me to do, uh, push, do more, uh, and not have to like run decisions, not have that like decision fatigue of like, Hey, do you want to do this? Do you not want to do this? Overthinking things. Yeah, no, we're, I'm going to, I've got a couple of points to add to that and kind of skip forward to that good hunting partners versus bad, uh,

One thing I would recommend to everybody, if you don't have a diehard hunting partner, like don't assume the guy that you get along with 350 days out of the year is going to make a great hunting partner because it's,

I don't know what it is about elk hunting, um, you know, physical fatigue, mental fatigue, things not going your way, but, um, a normal friendship may not work very well, you know, in the elk woods. So make sure you've went scouting with this person, like, you know, plan some shorter trips, like two or three days scouting. Um, yeah, you're, I've been fortunate. Um,

But here's where my good hunting partners, you know, John, Nick, Charlie, you know, Dirk, these guys that I've hunted with is that decision-making or calling, you know, I get frustrated if I'm the shooter and the color's like not doing what I want them to do. And then, you know, the first thing that enters your head is like this idiot, you know, even though they're your, one of your best buddies, like, why doesn't this guy know how to call elk? You know? And you start to question, well, then it, you know, some of the, the battling of like

well it's my day to hunt i want to go here but then i'm trying to give like very good educated you know because we've all been there we've all got our own experiences we pull from like john i don't want to cross the creek and go up the other side i want to stay on our side of the drainage because

you know, of, of this, this and this, or we were there two days ago and there were multiple herd bulls in a rut fest. And, but it's like, it's his day to hunt. And so now I'm like pissed at John the rest of the day, you know, or whatever it may be like we went on the other side, you know, or you go over there and it sucks. And then you're kind of like told you so all day, like should just listen to my plan. I've been here, you know, enough, but you know, with, with your respect for him, he's also been in situations enough. Um, so yeah, it's a lot of that, um, decision-making where if you are solo, um,

You just get to do what you want to do, but

Yeah. And for me, it's like, as, as you, like, you think about like dogging a herd, um, I would say if you're, if your go-to tactic is like, oh, we're going to locate an elk, move in and we're going to try to call them in, then having a partner really does help. Or even those situations where you're like, one guy stays up on the hill, keep him talking, I'll move in. Those are great for having a hunting partner when it comes to dogging a herd or like just, you know,

moving as quietly as you can or, or, you know, putting a stock on our herd, uh, generally speaking, like it's not beneficial to have a second person. Right. And so like, there's just certain situations for me. It just, I don't know. I always worked out better to be solo. Yep.

until you have to pack them out and then i'm like man i wish i had folks yeah yeah no it's yeah it's funny how that works but i might have to one of these days i'm gonna have to plan a hunt where it's just me and see if i if i'm tough enough to do it so the next one here is something you can control in a game of unknowns a crutches of the vice that someone depends on know the difference um

Yeah. I mean, I could go to like, what's your thought? Okay. So a lot of this stems from, um, I talked, I mean, it's been a long time. I talked to new hunters and whatnot, and I feel like a lot of people are, oh, should I get this tent or this camo or this gear or this thing? And I don't know, sent for a long time. I've kind of always said like by tags, not geared. And I mean, by experiences and stop worrying about equipment. Um,

I was dead, broke, poor, whatever you want to call it growing up. And we didn't have options. And so when I came in, I mean, I've hunted since I can remember. So gear has never really been like a thing for me. Like there's things I wish I had or wanted to have, but I, I've just kind of operated on this. Like, uh, I just hunt with what I have. And that's a mentality. I think it's different when you come into it.

adult onset hunting, if you will. And you're like, okay, what do I need? And I get the argument that you're like, okay, I want to be comfortable because then I'll stay out there longer. I understand that argument. I don't really agree with it as much because I've just done this when I was poor and had nothing. And so to me, it never really made sense. But I think it's like,

You can try to worry about what gear you have and what's going to be this. And it's in a world of like, okay, I'm going to go into this new unit. Maybe I'm going into the wilderness. And like, I just don't know what's going to happen. I, you know, all these things. I think people try to worry about what, what gear they're going to take because it's the only thing that they can tangibly control. It's the only thing they can like, oh, if I get the best of this. Right. And I, I feel like that's a little bit of a crutch.

for trying to maybe better understand, you know, even just e-scouting, right? Or like working through scenarios or like just trying to figure out what all the game plans are. And that's a better, to me, a better use of my worry than what pants I'm wearing. And I do feel like people tend to key in on that gear more than, I don't know, say like...

if I look at all the greatest hunters that I looked up to and respected growing up that were like, yeah, they, none of them care. They wear blue jeans and flannels, you know? Um, but they got it done. And so like, to me, I, I just feel like there's a lot of adult onset hunters that worry about, you know, their gear too much. I get it. If you like, when like, I totally disagree, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, no, I'm, I'm fully on board with that. Um, I,

I would say 20 years ago, um, you know, when I didn't have great gear, I was always looking to upgrade pieces. But if you were, I don't even, I get a hunt with a lot of people and, you know, some people have got like the nicest, newest gear and it's like organized and like, and this isn't necessarily right to the idea, but it's in the nicest, you know, it's in the perfect little pocket folded up in the perfect spot. You go to look at me, like all my stuff's just like jammed in a bag and

I know that it's going to work. You know, I grew up similar to you. You know, my dad's and my dad and my uncles, they were the guys that hunted in white New Balance tennis shoes so they could make sure they weren't stepping on sticks and making noise. You know, that's how they were taught. You know, the elk don't know you live and they hunted in sweatpants and a red flannel, you know, or their their logging jeans, depending on how hot it was and how quiet they wanted to be.

And so gear is one of those things I don't even think about or I don't necessarily associate with my success. Similar to you. It's there. I want to have very nice gear, but

We've all, I don't want to say we all, I get the fortune of seeing a lot of these guys, you know, because they're, they're struggling year in and year out and they can't seem to kind of break that barrier to success, but they've always got the newest bow and they've always got brand new rain gear and they've got a new pack this year. And they've got now by all means, if that makes you feel more confident, but I agree with you. And the reason it becomes a crutch is because they feel that somehow that new gear is bridging the gap.

to their success when really they probably can't shoot the new, you know, 2022 bow any better than they could the 2021 bow or those new pants they're wearing. Aren't going to get them to the next Ridge back because they didn't spend the time to get in shape, you know? And so that's where that gear becomes a crutch. Like, yeah, you've got it. And maybe in your head it's like a placebo or kind of that false confidence. But yeah, don't, don't rely on your gear because gear is never, never,

killed an animal it's just added to the comfort it's added to the ability to go deeper farther stay longer um you know whatever it may be but it's not going no piece of gear is going to make you a better elk hunter um you know without knowing how to use it and putting it into action

And that's why I just believe it's a, it can be a crutch is if I worry, that's the thing I'm worrying about or trying to improve. It means I'm taking my focus off worrying and improving something else. And I think there's far better things if you just want to be successful to improve, then, you know, what pair of pants you wear. Yep. I agree with that completely. The next one.

There is compounding success and doing the same thing year after year, but there comes a point when it hurts your growth. And we touched on this one a little bit earlier, um, with more of the aggressive, um, and then knowing when to be patient. That's probably the biggest, um, you know, when we talk about the same thing year after year being prescriptive, but then, you know, you taking the chance and, and like, I'm going to learn the spot and stock me taking the chance, uh,

of not being so aggressive and learning, you know, timing when to be as aggressive as I used to, but when to kick it back a notch, um, there was never a situation back 20 years ago when I, you know, or, or farther when I started this, if I had a bowl at, you know, seven 20 in the evening and it was going to be dark by eight, I was bombing over there with like every, uh,

you know, last ditch effort I had to go over there and kill that bull. Now there may be an instance where I'm like, you know what, we're going to sit back, make sure that bull doesn't smell us, make sure he doesn't know that there's, you know, another elk, you know, also known as me trying to call them in. Like there's, it just is going to be a better situation if we don't mess with them until the morning or the thermals are going to be right, you know, rather than risking it. And so I'm,

you know, very similar to the one we talked about earlier. For me, it turns into more of an aggressive or, you know, learning new styles and picking up, you know, just recognizing. And then there's just,

More experience. I've been very fortunate five or six weeks a year for the last five years elk hunting and a lot before that. Just the more I can stack up and experience, the more I'm like, hey, I've been in this situation before. I've tried to do this 20 times the same way and it's failed every time. Let's recognize that.

Draw up a different plan and let's go do that. You know? So yeah, I agree. If, if I only ever did the aggressive calling the same way every time I wasn't becoming a better elk hunter and even it, you know what I consider myself successful, but I'm still going out every day, every, every minute out there, I'm trying to learn and just hone my skills and get better. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think like the, the basic version of this is, um, you know, you find success in something and there's two types of people and there's the type of person who just keeps rinsing and repeating until it stops working. And then there's the type of person who wants to grow. And so it's like, how, how do you want to define your set success? And you can define your success as like, Oh, how many bulls I've killed. Right. And I think the best way to do that is to hunt the same spot, uh,

the same area and do the same things like because you'll get really good at that you could you know shoot a five-point roosevelt every single year at the end of your career you'll have 35 point roosevelts you know what i mean and maybe a couple you know booners in there because you know that's what came through

You see it with fishing, right? Fishing is actually a decent example of this. It's like, there's people who can do this one thing really well and they can rinse and repeat it. And then there's people who are like, I want to go, I want to master my craft and learn different techniques. I want to learn different fish, want to go to new areas. And the same, like,

to me, like that's how you, you focus on getting better. So like a great, like good example, I, you know, didn't kill an elk the last two years, but did I grow as an elk hunter? A hundred percent. Like I've gotten far better. You know, I could have just stayed hunting the deep timber and doing the call game and probably killed elk every year. But like, you know, I took two years to kind of, I

I won't even say go backwards, but to grow and, and my knowledge of the game. Right. And it was like, okay, I want to, you know, I want to master all these aspects of the game and that's going to help me grow because at the end of the day, I could go back, you know, I could go back to Oregon and hunt Roosevelt's and I still know that game, but what I've picked up by hunting the open country, um,

um, you know, hunting the breaks in Montana is going to teach me a lot about, you know, hunting Roosevelt. So you have a different thing. My patience has grown. Like the most simple version is like, yeah, my patience has grown a lot. You know, I'm way more, uh, patient on which attacks I make, which moments I, you know, make those attacks. And so just like, okay, do you want to grow? And so, I don't know, it's, it's, uh, just kind of a blanket statement of like, are you trying to be successful? AKA shoot one elk? Are you trying to increase your

ability as an El Conor to be successful. Yeah. And that's where I was at. I had a great Idaho spot. And to this day, when we walked out of it, I haven't been back since 2017 and the place is just on fire, but we had three good years in there. And I'm like, I can rinse and repeat, just like you said, I know the area, I know where the Elk are at, but it wasn't

satisfying anymore. And people can be like, well, and this is where, and I don't, I don't dodge it at all. Sport hunting versus like filling the freezer. And, and I, I like to do both. I wanted to go fill the freezer in a different area and you can call it sport, but I wanted to challenge myself because ultimately my goal, and it can be, it,

I don't know why it's even set as a goal. I would love to be dropped into any area, whether it's the mountains, whether it's a sagebrush, whether it's the arid desert of Arizona, New Mexico, whether it's the mountains of Idaho, whatever,

wherever it is. And I want to be the best elk hunter possible at that point when somebody dropped me in there. Um, it's kind of a weird, it's a weird idea, but I want to be, if you give me a gun and you know, late November, I want to be a smart enough elk hunter. I know what those elk are doing. You know, they're, they're outfeed and they're recuperating from the rut. They're going to be off on their own versus you put me in, you know, super pre-rut in Western Washington. And I want to know what to do. I want to be that, that type of elk hunter that,

knows it all from you know a to z any situation any time of year um so yeah i still haven't been back to idaho i literally left the place on fire with bulls beagling like crazy and uh it just is what it is i i wanted to see you know life short we only get so many years to do this and i just wanted to see other country and challenge myself in different ways but um yeah

No, a hundred percent. Um, you know, we should, we should do this someday. I keep saying, I'm going to do this. Um, I would love to challenge myself to go to Colorado and be like, okay, how many days does it take to kill an elk? Um, I've never hunted in Colorado. I know it's

very high pressure you know like it's a totally different type of hunt and and I would love to like just document like okay yeah my test my skills as an elk hunter and go to like over-the-counter Colorado hunt and see if we can get it done you know in in like three days and just see if it's possible

I'm sure you'd be fine. But no, yeah, it's just challenging yourself. Once you find success, continue to build on that and keep adding blocks to your game. Build a bigger house, I guess. So the next...

The next one, you're going to think killing an elk is a success, but when you look back, all you will see is the memory of the cool moments. And in parentheses, you had which you hated the most at the time. I'll let you go. I agree and disagree with this statement, but I'll let you take a first crack at it, and then I'm going to add to it.

I mean, I think this like plays nicely to that last one you just talked about. It's like, you know, it's, it's about building those skills. And, and in early days when I started, you know, killing elk was, was success, right? Like, Oh, I just want to kill an elk. And, you know, when I look back on my season, the, my, the moments I remember the most, the memories that make me smile, dude, they're not even killing elk. There's those moments are there, but like, it's the misses. Like it's the, you know, uh,

I don't know, screw ups. It's the like close encounters more, far more than anything. You know, it's like bull screaming and you're like, man, you like remember that time. And those are like the moments you're going to remember. And I think it's easy. You know, a lot of this is talking about how to be successful. And I get that that's what we all focus on.

And maybe this is to your point of, you know, the hunting, why people hunt with partners. And I get that. There's a lot of people like, man, I don't know how to be successful at hunt because I want to hang out with my dad or I want to hang out with my brother or whatever. And like, those are the moments you're going to remember. So it's kind of like a play on the whole be here now. And I think this is just great life advice to say like, you know, all these moments that you're trying to strive for and push hard. And I'm a huge fan of like work your face off for it.

but at the same time, don't forget to like take a glimpse into like what you're doing right now. Because when I look back on, on all the hunting seasons, you know, like,

the moments where it was just a suck fest or a pack out, uh, those are the ones I like, I remember the most. And you just said Idaho. And I can particularly remember a pack out in Idaho, killed a bulls, uh, solo. And it's just, it's raining sideways and all this. And I was like, this is so dumb. Why did I do this? Why am I in here? All like all those things. And like,

in retrospect now, I'm like, Oh, what a cool moment. You know what I mean? And like that, that was a part of killing the elk, but it was just a miserable moment within that. Yeah. And I'm, I'm the same way. Um, the, the moments you hate everything about you questioning why you're doing this, you know, I've, I've still got elk in the freezer. I could have hunted lower on the mountain. Um, you know, when you're miserable, sweating, hurting, hungry, you look back on those times and it's like, that was, that was the best part of that hunt.

um, I don't know why our brains work that way. Um, I don't know if it's because it's because you're, you know, you're just grinding in that memory. And so it just, it's more vivid later. I don't know what it is, but yeah, most of what you remember are either one, the hardest times or number two, the unique and chaotic times. And by chaotic, I mean like good elk encounters, like, you know, the rut best you get into just, you know, all of your

Right.

It's just, you know, that's what it's about. But I did want to peel this one back a little bit on killing an elk being a success. So I think there's two different ways to define success. There's the younger me, since we are talking about 20 years ago. To me, success meant that I killed an elk. I felt...

Back then, it was a little more important. I was either establishing myself as a good elk hunter. I wanted approval from my dad and uncles and grandpa that, hey, this guy's becoming a good elk hunter. It was more about the killing of the elk.

Fast forward to now, and I still need it to be a success, but it's more about accomplishing goals that I've set out for myself and a challenge that I've given myself. And so, like I said, there's a success with the idea that I've killed an elk, but there's now the success with the idea that I set a goal for myself, I challenged myself, and I met it. So,

That's where I said I kind of agree with the idea that the hard times are what you remember, but then as far as the definition of success, no.

I still want to be successful due to goal accomplishing. And when I look back, it's like, all right, that hunt was a success because we went to this unit in Wyoming with the intention of killing, you know, a mature six point bull. And, and I did my e-scouting. I had did all of my calling the biologists and whatever it may be. And because of all that, this hunt was a success as well. So, um, I still challenge myself to a point where, you know, I'm,

I wouldn't say it's like militant, like demanding of success to myself, but I, I put a lot of pressure on myself every year and it's not because I, I need to kill for anybody else. It's, it's because of what I expect out of myself and, and just holding myself to a, a pretty high standard.

Yeah. I mean, that's, I mean, I think we're on the same page on that. It just, you know, like you and I both grew up in very successful hunting families. And so like, there's always that seek of approval. Like you want your, you know, your dad, you want to kill elk. Cause like, that's what dad did. That's what grandpa did. And, and like, that's who you want to become. Right. And then like, as you progress, you're,

the goal marker keeps moving, right? And I, you know, like the advice I'd give myself 20 years ago is like, just pay attention to the journey because when you look back, those minor successes all made up the journey and the journey was kind of cool. And so, but,

within that there's micro decisions. Like that was a big piece of my decision to like, okay, I'm going to do this stupid thing called hunting open country. Like it's not my game. I'm going to suck at it. But that's a great piece of like going backwards to go forward because I have to say like, okay, you want to get better, not necessarily be successful. And I, it ties right into that other one is like, just from like when you're 20, you're like journey, what journey? Like we're just out killing elk and having fun. And that's fine. It's just like,

Those micro decisions of going to new places. And you did the same thing, right? You were in Idaho, you were successful, but like a party, you had this itch to go try something new and test yourself in a new environment. And, you know, it's the same when I was like, I remember...

The first time I was nervous in a long time, I had done a lot of things that were, uh, I had been there, done that, but like going for 16 days into the wilderness on horseback solo, it was like, whew, that's, you know, can I do it? Whatever. And I'm pushing myself. And like, when I look back, um, you know, that was an unsuccessful hunt. I came out and ended up killing a bull, um, you know, a different place, but that 16 days was like, that was a good test of your skill. And I'm sure there's tons of people who are like, oh no, I don't care about that. I just want to be successful. Yeah.

my advice to my, myself, you know, 20 years ago, whenever it was 22 years ago, we'd be like, Hey, just do new things, challenge yourself in new ways. Because if you only focus on this goal of, you know, killing elk, uh,

it'll make the journey less wide, right? Like it's just kind of a simple journey of like, oh yeah, you were successful in the same way and the same thing over time. So it kind of ties right back into what we're talking about. Like that's why you go to new places. That's why you test yourself in new ways. And I get that like everyone's in a different place in their journey. And if you're listening to this and you're like, dude, I'm just trying to kill my first out.

I get it. Like, don't let me talk too big on you because like we've all been there and like killing your first elk is step one. Right. And maybe if you haven't killed an elk yet, like hunt the same place. Don't go try to test yourself by being in new, new areas, new ways, like find a system that works. And then you, before you go take the step to like, I want to go to a new place, find

figure that step out, right? Because you, they're building blocks and you can't just like seek the end goal of like, I want to kill an elk in every single state. Like maybe you should start with like, what's block one, which is killing an elk in my home state. For sure. Yeah.

we're about only halfway through these Cody we may have to bring you back for part two because we're kind of running on time but I did I want to give you a chance kind of maybe explain a little bit about the rich ideas some of the stuff you've got going on how people can you reach out to you and then in closing I'll ask for your kind of your golden nugget for elk hunters out there but go ahead and give us a little bit about yourself and some of the stuff you got going on before we close up here

Yeah. I mean, I run a podcast and we talk a lot about entrepreneurship and hunting, all of those things, my new projects, the ideas lab. And actually I just, I'm launching. So, I mean, a lot of people probably know I have Wapiti Wednesday, which is like our Patreon only podcast. And we do elk podcasts every single week.

But on top of that, I'm kind of launching an Elk 201 course. And it's definitely not for beginners. These are the nuggets that I've learned in 500 plus podcasts. And so if you're interested in the next level of skills, check out my Elk 201 course. It's going to be like 50 bucks. And I think it's like...

This is how you become to my, my goal is to double your success rate. So if you've never hunted before, like, don't worry, like, don't take this course, go take, you know, the L collective or something else. But if, if you want to double your success rate, uh, and go from that a 10%, uh, success rate to 20 or even 30, 40 success rate, this is like the things you need to focus on.

And a lot of the stem from having, you know, hundreds of podcasts and people like, Oh, what's the, what's the one thing I need to listen to? What's the best advice? Like, okay, I'll just put together like a three to four hour course. That's like, here's what you need to know. Um, and we're actually going to make an audio file as well. So as I know, uh, it's almost season. So like,

trying to go watch videos, you don't have time for that. So we made an audio only file. So if you want to check that out, uh, just go to the rich outdoors.net, uh, four slash two Oh one. And we'll, we'll have everything there. Perfect. Perfect. Well, thank you. And, um, your one piece of advice for new elk hunters out there, maybe people struggling to find success, um, just a, a one-liner or something that you think they need to know, man, I would say like,

The difference between, you know, people who have 50% success rate and 10% success rate is just pure effort. I just don't think people understand how much, how hard those guys are working. And when they get, when they show up in the field, it's not like a, Hey, this is my vacation. It's like, we have work to do and I'm about to get it done. That's like, if you could just experience what it's like to go hunting with Jason is like

I, I've never hunted with Jason, but I know exactly how it is. It's like, he's just going to go all in and like everything is towards that goal. What? And I know like we just talked about like all this other stuff, but I think the amount of effort that goes in is like, once you show up, it's gotta be game time. If you want to be successful every single year, you gotta, you gotta treat it like such.

Yeah. I like that. Um, yeah. And just elaborate on a little bit. Like I show up just like you do at your normal job. And I don't like to think of hunting as a job. So don't, don't get that mixed up, but I show up with a, this is my job.

And my goal, and this is a check marks, and this is how I accomplish it. And I don't like to fail. And so no, very, very systematically. And this is the effort required to do it. And I'm willing to do that. So really appreciate having you on, Cody. It's a great conversation. Good luck this fall. And yeah, it was nice catching up with you. Likewise, buddy. Yeah, best of luck. Keep crushing it. Killing big bulls, making me jealous, all those things. We'll try.

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