Ep. 19: Frost Bite for Late-Season Elk and How to Backcountry Snow Camp
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As a guide and hunter, I've spent thousands of days in the field. This show is about translating my hard-won experiences into tips and tactics that'll get you closer to your ultimate goal, success in the field. I'm Remy Warren. This is Cutting the Distance. This podcast is presented by Yeti, built for the wild. It's late season. The snow has hit.

Now while most of the elk and deer may have seemed to have moved to lower country, there's always a few holdouts that stay deep. While backpacking into winter-like conditions really doesn't sound that appealing to most hunters, that's the exact reason it's worth considering. When everyone else leaves the backcountry, that's when I like to head in. But honestly, winter camping is a whole new beast in itself.

and there are special considerations to make that hunt safe and successful. I want to go over a few late season camping, backcountry, travel tips, and gear options. But first, I want to tell you of a story of a late season backpack hunt that we decided to film. Honestly, the conditions were too harsh and probably had no business trying to do this, but that's exactly why I wanted to give it a try.

So I thought, let's do a backcountry backpack hunt into an area, a roadless area, and film it. Well, it's 20 below. There's knee-deep snow. What could go wrong? I was going to do an in-and-out where I hiked up through one spot, carried my camp the whole way, and do like a whole 13-mile trip through this backcountry area and then end at another zone.

However, I didn't understand what kind of camera equipment was coming on this trip. And at this point, the snow was bad. You probably could have taken horses, but I didn't have horses to take. It was me, it was backpacking, and then two guys with cameras. So we decided the 13-mile trip is not going to work with the crew that we have right here. What we'll do is we'll do a little five-mile in, five-mile back. Still a long ways, but we're going to shave off some carrying a lot of stuff. We'll set up a camp and we'll go for it.

Now, the reason I like hunting this spot late season is the snow on the other side of the mountain on the way up there is deep, deep.

Most of the elk have moved down, but at the top there's windblown ridges and the wind is so gnarly up there all the time that it actually keeps the ridges open. So there's grass available for the elk and then they'll go into a few patches of trees up there to bed, but they still have feed even late season. Then when they got a bailout, they can pretty much push their way through neck deep snow down to the valley later on. But that's, I mean, you're nobody's bothering them.

So we get up there. I actually had my brother help drag in a sled with some of their camera equipment and stuff. And then we all backpacked in. I had all my gear plus a lot of other people's gear. We trudged up the trail. We couldn't even get to the trailhead in the truck because the snow was so deep.

So we ended up having to hike a little bit further than planned, get up over the top of the mountain. Now it's time to set up camp. Well, it's about 40 mile an hour to 50 mile an hour gusts of wind, and it's well below zero. Find a patch of trees there.

get a fire going, get camp set up. Ground's frozen. There's definitely no water. The jet boils won't work. It's so cold, the propane and the little jet boil tanks won't work. So we're just now using my one pot to boil water for everybody, melting snow. Got the tent set up, got a little shelter built. Good to go. Now it's time to hunt. First day, kind of go out looking for elk.

Pretty slow day, hard to glass, pretty cold, got to bundle up. Once you stop, you start to freeze. So you like to walk as you're walking, you're over sweating. So it's fairly tough conditions. This goes on for a few days. We have a little bit of an encounter with some elk in one of the openings. So then it comes down to, honestly, I don't even remember what day it was, but I'm glassing and I spot a giant bull, like the bull of my dreams. This is a great bull. I'm like, all right, sweet.

There's a big bull over here, boys. Let's go get it.

We work our way around there behind this ridge. I'm walking and I walk at a pretty fast pace. I'm kind of hard to keep up with, especially when there's snow and I'm cold. I just trudge. I'm like, I'll break trail. Come on guys. So I'm busting trail going through. I know that once I get around, cause I've hunted up here a lot. Like once I get over this one ridge, I should have a shot at this big bull. Well, there was a couple other bulls with him. There was a nice six point and another smaller bull.

Now we got across this big opening, but we're out of sight of the elk. I'm maybe a few hundred yards in front of the guys that are filming. And here comes some antler tips over the ridge that I'm trying to get to. This is not going to work. I lay down in the snow signal, get down. I can see they're filming. I'm like, okay, cool. One of the guys ended up before this point got fairly close to me.

And there's someone with a longer lens back behind filming. And I'm like, okay, it's not the big bull. I'll wait for the bigger bull. But I also know that we aren't going to have a whole lot more chance after this. We'd hunted hard. It was getting tough. It was now or never. Like the big bull had to come over now because it wasn't going to happen again.

Well, that bull starts walking across the opening and he's in the wide open. We're laying down, but he's kind of looking at us like something is not right. I'm waiting. I'm waiting. Come on, big bull. Come over. Come over. The big bull doesn't show up. That six point, he was a nice six point, turns around and starts to go. I'm like, uh-oh, this is it. This is my chance. I either shoot this nice six point, which I would be happy with,

or I wait for the bigger bull. Now the bigger bull was a seven by seven. He had some cool kickbacks. So the bull is walking. He stops, gives me a shot. Boom, shoot him. Runs over the ridge, falls over dead. Just out of sight of where we could see. I mean, I shot him at the last moment while I had a good backdrop before he went over into the never nevers. Then after that happened, one thing you didn't see on the film, because I don't know that we got it and it just didn't make sense.

In a five minute film, you can't tell the whole story of everything that happens. So that's why I'm telling the whole story here. The big bull ran out from the other side of the ridge after I shot that bull, stood there broadside for about four minutes, staring back at me.

I was like, dang it. Big 7x7, of course, after I shot the smaller bull, decides to stand there. However, one thing about me is when I pull the trigger or release the arrow, that's the animal I wanted to take at that time. And I was just as excited to take that 6x6. And it was just cool to see that that bull was still there. Who knows what would have happened if I didn't shoot, but it's just kind of a funny story of...

It looks like you get this one bull and then you get it. And then the big bull just runs out and stands there broadside. I don't know if that's ever happened to you, but it's happened to me this time and a couple of times with some mule deer as well. Still as excited to get that other bull, but it was just funny. I had to laugh that that big bull just stood there after I shot the other one. Late season backcountry hunts and winter weather backpacking and camping is not impossible. Okay.

But it's pretty difficult without the right preparation and knowledge. So that cold weather is just harsh. The conditions do make it more dangerous. And I've got a few little tricks that just keep you more comfortable. Because the more comfortable you are in really harsh, crappy conditions, the harder you can hunt. And the harder you can hunt, the more likely you are to be successful.

A lot of that comfort comes from preparation, the right knowledge and the right gear. So we're going to talk about that. The prep, the knowledge, the gear. The first and most important piece of equipment is going to be your shelter. Your shelter is what keeps you alive at night. Now, if you think about any backcountry experience, it's kind of primal because you're going deep. You're going into that. You need the things of survival. You bring those all with you. What do you need to live?

oxygen, well, that's already there, water, shelter, and food. Shelter, I believe on a backcountry hunt is one of the most important things in not only your comfort, but your survival as well. I've camped places where it is with the windchill well below zero.

But with the right sleeping bag, with the right four season tent, with the right little bit of know-how, you can do it. And it's not that bad. So let's start with the kind of shelter. I like a four season backpacking tent.

There's a couple options. The one that I use a lot is a stone glacier, the sky two person. It's got a lot of room. I'll take that if I'm by myself. It's light, but it's also super durable. It's got a double vestibule. So there's a little bit of room for gear. Another great option would be a teepee style tent. This isn't packing in with horses. Like you aren't going to bring a wall tent. You need something light that you can carry, but those teepee tents with a packable stove, man, if you got that, that's, that's the best.

So you've got your options. If you've got one of those and this is something you're going to do and the area is conducive for it's not too windy, get the stove option. But a four season tent, I believe that's just more my style. I don't want to have to deal with the stove and the other things because of the four season tents, just more durable in the elements. And I trust it and I've used it a lot. So that's what I go with. But there are a few options.

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Go to fishingbooker.com today. That's fishingbooker.com. Now, for season camping, I'm just going to run through a list of like some tips that I just always consider. Because if you haven't done it before, these are things you just got to think about. So the first one, pitching your tent. This may sound obvious, but pitch it with the door away from the wind. Because what's going to happen is that wind will create drifts.

And you do not want that drift to be up against your door because then every time you open your vest, you will, that snow is going to fall in. It's going to blow in. So I generally pitch my tent where that wind doesn't drift or create the drifts up against my tent.

Another thing to think about with your tent is I will take snow and I will bury the edge of the fly with snow. That way wind can't blow snow up inside the tent. So I'll clear out an area with like a snow shovel or my foot, then I'll set up the tent and then I'll pack snow onto the edges around the fly, which tends to keep in my own heat as well as keeps out wind and other snow.

Another cool thing, if you're in a lot of snow, it's actually pretty easy to build a snow cave. But most of the time when you can do that, it's probably too much snow for the ridges and other things to be open for the elk to live in. So you kind of got to balance where you're at and the time of year. I just like to kind of bury my tent a little bit with a little bit of snow as a protective wall over the vestibule.

Now, a lot of cold comes from the ground. So you're obviously going to have like a sleeping pad, which you would have pretty much any time of year because a lot of the cold that will get you when you're sleeping is from the ground up. So what I do, if I can pack a little shovel or clear it out with my foot, I try to get rid of all the snow underneath my tent if possible. Then I also, an extra thing that I like to bring is a tarp or like a ground pad for the tent to lay underneath for residual snow. Then I put my sleeping pad on top of that.

One of the little tricks that I've picked up over the years for late season camping is I'll cut down pine boughs and then I'll put those over the snow with my tarp over that and then the tent on top of that. It adds cushion and it adds insulation in between the tent and the snow on the bottom, which keeps it warmer and it keeps less cold from coming up through the floor of the tent. It's an awesome tip to remember if you're doing any late season camping.

Another problem that's specific to really cold winter camping is you're probably going to encounter winds, yet the ground might be frozen to stake your tent to. So how do you solve that problem? I've got a couple solutions that I use. One is a winter dead man. So what I do is instead of trying to hit the peg into the dirt or maybe you can't get to the dirt, it's just snow.

I actually take the peg or I cut branches, which works pretty good, like maybe inch and a half branches, maybe six to eight inches long works fine. So you put it sideways to your tent line. You can either run paracord or whatever, and you run it perpendicular to your tent line. So you run it around the center of the tent peg or the center of the stick.

Then you either use rocks to place on top of that stick. So I'll bury it, pack it with snow, and then you can use rocks or whatever as an extra way to secure it on top of that perpendicular stake. So the stake's not actually going into the ground, but it's having weight or even just the weight of the snow up against it. You can pack it down, snow around it pretty hard, and then tighten it once it's secure. Another great option, like if it's snowy out, melt some water.

dig a hole in the snow, do that with your tent peg and then pour the water over the tent peg and allow it to freeze. A lot of times that water will seep down to the ground and then it refreezes at night and it's just like a frozen solid mass that holds your tent down.

It seems like a lot of extra work. And that's exactly the reason that it's a good time to go in because most people don't want to deal with this extra work. I also don't suggest this for everyone, but if you've advanced to a level where you go, and what's that next challenge? Late season winter camping is that, and I've learned to love it.

This time of year, special considerations need to go into your sleeping bag. You're going to want an extremely warm, zero degree, sub-zero sleeping bag. Now, one of the things to think about is a lot of people say, oh, if I get cold, I'll just sleep in my clothes. But most down sleeping bags use your body heat and reflect it back to you. I've actually found that wearing my clothes in my sleeping bag causes me to actually feel cooler.

The trouble is you don't want to be putting on frozen clothes in the morning. So I'll do one of two things. I'll either sleep on top of them in my bag or put them underneath my bag between my mat and sleep on that. Now, if my clothes are wet, I will sleep with them in my bag because my body heat draws the moisture out of my clothes to the outside of my bag. Now, if you're like me, you probably only have one sleeping bag for a multitude of seasons.

One thing that I've found is there's these, um, soul bivy, like S O L survive outdoors longer. They make this, it's like a survival blanket bivy, but it's more durable. It's more of a permanent one. It's got reflective inner layer and it's still breathable, but

That's awesome because it really helps trap the body heat and reflect it back in. It's not great for drawing moisture out, but it is good because it keeps your breath moisture off of your bag. Because as you're breathing at night, late season, what happens is your breath creates steam and that steam can cause ice on the outside or inside of the tent in your gear.

So even though it's cold out, one thing you want to remember is always pop a little bit of a vent open. That way your heat and your body heat can escape the tent and not create condensation in there that's going to freeze and freeze on top of your gear and be a pain later.

One of the most important things hunting this time of year is the ability to create a fire fast and efficient. You're going to want to make sure you have fire starter and you're going to want to make sure you're good at building a fire. Now that might sound simple, but I'm surprised how many people go out and are not equipped or don't have the knowledge of how to build fires in bad conditions when things are wet. Practice before you go out.

in a safe place, obviously, but practice in places when you're maybe just day hunting. Build a fire in that snowy environment. Figure out the type of things that burn. If you're in pine forests, anything where it's got dry needles, that just lights up like kerosene. Pitch, start your fire small. Just get good at finding the right materials. A good fire and a fast fire is all about material.

So, know that, practice that before you go out into the backcountry and know that if something happens, you can always build a fire. If you get trapped out away from your shelter, you can build a fire and you'll survive through the night. It's also important to know how to build a fire because real late season, I've had so much trouble with fuel canisters,

that almost all the time I just get my water by boiling snow in a pot in the fire. I bring a metal cup with me this time of year as well. It's just another little trick that I've learned over the years because when I stop and I'm glassing, I always build fires late season. When I'm elk hunting, you won't find me very far from a fire if I'm just sitting and glassing. It's the only way to do it. You got to stay comfortable. You got to stay warm.

That metal cup is great to just scoop snow, set there while you're glassing, get some hot water going and increase your core temperature from inside. Warm water is a great way to do that.

Another trick with the warm water is at night, I'll boil water, I'll pour it in a Nalgene, I'll close it tight, and I'll keep that bottle inside my sleeping bag with me. It's a little bit of a heater. It works great. You can also boil up some water in the morning, stuff it in your boots. That hot bottle, it helps a little bit, you know, getting those boots warmed up because they will freeze.

Another thing I use and bring is hand warmers. Keep them with me and then I'll use some every night, open them up, put them in my boots about mid-morning when I wake up to help defrost my boots for that day's hunt. When we're talking about water, most people other times a year will bring either a Nalgene bottle or a water bladder. This is not the time of year to go into the backcountry with a water bladder or just a Nalgene bottle because what happens is the water will freeze in there almost instantly.

I actually prefer to carry the extra weight of like a Yeti thermos type bottle because I can boil my water. I can put it in there and I know throughout the day it insulates it and keeps my water warm. It also prevents it from freezing. So I'm not wasting time burning and boiling water. And then every time I go to sleep or a few hours later, I go to take a sip of water and it's frozen solid. That's a pain. So that extra weight of that bottle makes a big difference.

Now, when you go late season, you just have to carry more gear. Your pack is heavier.

It's all part of it. There's a few ways that you can get your gear in easier with a little less strain, especially if you aren't going too far. One of those ways is like a plastic sled. I either use like a concrete plastic sled, a duck hunting plastic sled, or just like a high side plastic toboggan. It's easy to drag. You can put extra gear in it for your base camp. It's also awesome because when you get an animal back to base camp, it's an easier way to pack it out.

There's been a few hunts just getting over a pass or something into the backcountry. I'll want snowshoes, but then I might on the other side not need them. It's a great way to save your energy for the big hikes in the backcountry, not busting through snow all the time. Just little tips for winter travel like that that make a huge difference. Now, this kind of hunt, I understand, is not for everyone, but it's something that I want to get you thinking about. And if you're thinking about it now, maybe the season's over.

but it's a great time to go out and just go take a winter camping trip. Maybe you're into skiing. Maybe you're just want to go for a little snowshoe. Don't get too far. Just give it some practice because that kind of skill and knowledge and just messing with it before a hunt is

is going to be invaluable when you decide to go into the backcountry late season for a hunt. You're going to pick up a few little things here and there. Yeah, that's necessary to bring that extra weight to worth it. That's not. And it's a really great way to get some skills before you actually go out there and now have to deal with a big elk packing it out or get too far and get in over your head. I

I just like to give you those kind of tips that get you thinking, thinking of new ways to hunt, maybe something you didn't think about before, didn't think you were capable of. But once you hear someone do it and you give it a try, you're going to really realize how capable you are in those backcountry settings and in really, I would say, adverse conditions. Backpack hunting in winter weather can provide some challenges, that's for sure.

There's nothing easy about it, but due to the difficulty, you just might find yourself alone with plenty of mature bulls around.

Taking the extra precautions and just a few of those specialized pieces of gear I talked about can make that experience way more enjoyable. Nothing's really pleasant about it, but late season backpacking can open up new areas to where big bulls are hanging out that the average hunter is avoiding. The experience itself is just honestly unique. And with a few outdoor skills, it's an effective way to chase backcountry bulls.

Next week, I think that we'll do a little Christmas special because this is that time of year. We're getting there. You can bust out your game meat, defrost it. Here's your homework for next week.

Next week, I want you to take a good piece of game meat out and give it a good slow defrost on, say, Tuesday night, Wednesday. Okay? And then what we're going to do, I'm going to tell you a fun story. I'm going to talk to you about some cool stuff. And I'll give you maybe like a little cooking advice or just some ways to think about preparing that wild game. Then next Thursday night, you can cook it up and you can share it with some friends. Tell some hunting stories.

and have a great dinner because that's the whole reason we're even going out there in the first place so until then keep eating you carnivores

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