Ep. 55: Calling in Big Bulls: Welcome to the Elk Party
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As a guide and hunter, I've spent thousands of days in the field. This show is about translating my hard-won experiences into tips and tactics that'll get you closer to your ultimate goal, success in the field. I'm Remy Warren. This is Cutting the Distance. Don't worry, your speakers have not broken, and I am not crazy just yet. That noise you hear is the beginnings of a party.

what i like to deem an elk party it's a calling sequence that i've used over the years with a lot of success it's one that creates this illusion of building a harem of cows with a lot of excitement possibly a hot cow and a bull has run in and stirred him up what this does is it draws attention from another group of elk to bring satellite bulls to your location

But not only that, it's a great technique and tactic to use to draw that herd bull away from the cows he's with to come investigate what's going on where you're at. In my opinion, it's one of my most deadly tactics when it comes to calling elk during the peak rut. But before I share those tactics, let's go into a story where this worked really well in southwestern Montana.

I really like to tell guiding stories on this podcast. I think one reason because I have an unlimited supply of good stories just because of all the times I've been out guiding and a lot of interactions with elk that you might not get while you're just hunting for yourself. But another reason, especially when it comes to talking about elk calling is

because as the guide I really get to interact with the elk and be a caller in the way that I think is the most appropriate to drawing a bull in and that generally means setting the hunter up moving back and doing my call sequence out of the way where I can try to draw that bull closer in to the hunter or the shooter now on this particular day we woke up and I told my client I looked him straight in the face and I said today you're shooting an elk and

He's like, why is that? I said, because my brother, Jason is done with his hunter and we're both going to take you out. So what that means is I get to do the calling. I get to drop back and do the calling. And my brother, Jason gets to be with the guy that's drawing back and shooting. And so many times I'll be drawn back calling, but I'm trying to direct the person when to move, whatever. And me and my brother have just hunted so much together and hunted a lot

in general for elk. I mean, he's, he's guided with me for years as well. And so we both know how to move and how to call and when to get into position and where to go. And we can read how the elk's reacting and just that kind of little bit of knowledge, uh,

It just makes you so much more successful. So if I'm calling and he's the shooter or vice versa, I'm the shooter and he's calling. I mean, generally we'll go out and we can get in a bull or maybe it's one we're going to pass or whatever, but we understand when to move and it just makes it so much easier, so much more successful. So this guy just like struck out on this one because he's,

You know, I was going to be calling, my brother was going to help him get into position, tell him when to draw, okay, let's move and then throw out a cow call and stop him. And he also, I had a video camera and figured out, might as well film this too. So we went out that morning and it was like a really good morning, peak rut, pre daylight, we get a bunch of elk fired up. It's just like a big group down below. And there's this nice bull in the area that I'd been watching.

Was hoping, okay, man, this might be that elk that we'd been looking at. It was a big six by seven. And this is just a general elk area, fairly low success rate at the time. So any bull is a good bull, but if you can get a decent one, that's awesome too. So we get in there and the elk are just firing off. We get into position and...

It's one of those scenarios where there's enough bulls in the group that they're kind of on the move. Like the herd bull, it has nothing to do with what we're doing. This is just the elk doing their thing. So the elk are kind of pushing each other around and you can tell that there's maybe three or four bulls in the group and it's just like getting chaotic with bugling and we're throwing in our bugles and we get into position and we've got the herd bull screaming right behind these small pines and

I move back and start raking a tree. Jason takes him up to get into position and the bull just never breaks the plane of those pines to where we can get a shot. And at that point, the cows start moving down past us and we're just surrounded by elk. I mean, we've got cows coming in. So that bull goes down and I can hear there's just like this one hot cow and there must be something crazy going on. So I'm thinking to myself, man, how are we going to pull? We almost got that bull to commit, but there's just so much chaos in here.

So then I started thinking, why don't we just create our own chaos? Why don't we create a party that sounds like what's going on down there up here?

and see if that might, in this confusion, cause this other bull to come in. And if worst case scenario, definitely one of these satellite bulls will come check us out. But we did get a glimpse of the herd bull and I'm thinking, man, we really, really want to get this bull. So let's just try this. So we get in and that herd bull is below us and we're bugling. And every time we bugle, he bugles back, but he's at that point now where he's just not going to come in.

So I tell Jason, why don't you guys get set up above this little goalie and they're down below us. I'm going to draw back and I'm just going to create this party. So I draw back and I just start throwing out cow calls. And then I'm starting to do throw out some estrus wine calls. And then I've got this scenario where I'm playing as two bulls and I'm far enough back where if the elk comes to me or whatever, you would have to draw past them before it gets to me. So I'm moving around a lot.

I'm running from one position to another, calling over here, calling over there, calling in different directions, throwing out a lot of different cow calls. I'll bugle in this one spot. And then I run over, literally sprinting and breaking branches and bugling over here. I've got the bugle tube and I'm sprinting.

sprinting and bugling at the same time and doing the same thing with cow estrus call. Just, it's like that sound when a bull's chasing a cow down the mountain and she's in heat, but it's like a younger bull's hot on her tail. And I'm trying to entice this herd bull away from real cows thinking, oh man, those satellite bulls just picked up a hot cow and I better go investigate.

So I'm doing that. I'm just going off on the calls, running around, breaking stuff, smashing trees, just literally having the best time you can have on the mountain. I mean, that to me is just like the epitome of September. And sure enough, my brother, he could hear that bull bugling. And then it was that running while doing an estrous cow call and then just running and screaming and bugling.

And that was just enough to make that herd bull come check us out. He starts walking up. It's just perfect. Like walked right into 20 yards. My brother Jason gives him a bull stops broadside thump.

bull down. Nice big six by seven, just on a public land general area. And we were pretty much stoked. There was just the whole fired up scenario was we went from calling elk to essentially becoming this massive herd of elk. And even when I was throwing out those cow calls, I had Jason throwing cow calls as well. And what we really did is we just created this, what I like to call elk party. So

Since then, most of the herd bulls that I've called in have been called in using that same tactic where I create a party and draw that bull just out of curiosity to our location. And of course, it works really well for getting those other satellite bulls interested as well. If you watch any movie that has a good party, there's always a few things that are universal. And we're going to take those few things that are universal to any party and we're going to convert it into calling elk.

So my three universal party moves, chicks, loud music, breaking stuff. How often do you see a movie where there's a party and something isn't just getting completely thrashed? So we're going to go through the setup for creating a massive elk party and then the times that it works the best as well as the calls to use and when to use them.

the first setup, creating the chicks. What we're doing is we're trying to make the elk think that we've got a harem of cows or we are a harem of cows. Now, if you're in the peak rut and you've got a hot cow, really what happens is this scene of pandemonium breaks out where

The herd bull is trying to keep tabs on that cow, but the other satellite bulls in the area start trying to run cows off for themselves. There's this like rift of confusion and you can capitalize on that by essentially taking what those elk are doing naturally and creating it somewhere else in very close proximity that's going to draw the elk to your location.

I've done this technique so many times when I've encountered a scenario very similar to this and maybe called in three to seven bulls in a single morning.

Many times it's, I end up passing up even some good bulls, just trying to get that herd bull to my location. Sometimes he'll end up coming in. Other times I kick myself for not shooting one of the other good bulls that comes in. A couple of years ago, I did the same thing and ended up passing on a big six by six and shooting a little rag horn bull after I knew I wasn't going to get the herd bull in.

Every scenario is a little bit different. However, this is a really good calling tactic when the time is right for it. And this generally pertains to peak rut when there's a high likelihood that a cow is going to go into estrus and you've found a herd of elk that might have multiple bulls that are trying to steal cows away from the herd bull.

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So the first step in this tactic is creating an illusion that there's a large group of cows where you're at. And that involves throwing out multiple cow calls. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to start by making cow calls in multiple directions and kind of like this call and response where it's like the herd of cows kind of got separated somehow. And I'm doing this call and response thing. So I've got a call here and I'll just kind of demonstrate it.

Just like a few "mew, mew, mew, mew" just all over in different directions. Then what I'll do at the end there, I throw in a few of these long, drawn out

eww sounds that can be made with pretty much any alcohol, but open reeds work really well for this. And then just like your standard diaphragm call, I got an open read right here. I'll do it. It might blow the speakers out, but we'll give it a try. So it's just this like high, low, high, like more long drawn out. Imagine if a cow were to bugle, that's kind of the way that I see this estrous wine going. So it's, it's the sound that a cow makes when she gets into heat.

I'll start building that up with those cow sounds, and then I'll grab my bugle tube, and I'll throw in some bugles in there as well. Now, it could be any kind of bugle, really. It could be more younger bull bugle, or it could just be also another really good dominant bugle, kind of like we talked about last week, that more display call bugle.

throwing some of those out there, or even just maybe a more immature bull that's like, hey, there's some satellite bulls, some raghorns getting up in some business that they probably shouldn't be in. So I'll throw out the cow calls and then I'll mix in some bugles with that.

The key here is to just create this illusion of multiple cows. Now, if you've got two people, maybe a shooter and a caller, having them throw out cow calls as well, what you'll start to notice is you should be close enough to the herd where that herd's actually starting to talk back and forth to you as well and create confusion amongst the cows. You want to make every elk think that the real party is happening right where you're at. Now, the second ingredient to creating a good elk party is lots of noise.

I've heard so many things of, oh, don't over call. You bugle too much. You do this too much. I believe that when you're creating this elk party, there's no such thing as too much noise. And I've only learned that because over the years, I've been in real scenarios where elk are doing this and they are just going apeshit. And that's what we're trying to create. We're creating this illusion that something really, really exciting is going on. And we're going to make lots of noise while we do it.

So that means throwing out an excessive amount of bugles where you're acting as two bulls or more, maybe doing more an easier, like smaller bull bugle, and then just a bull that's doing a display call. I think that adding in some really aggressive bugling into this mix, where maybe you've got one bull that you're bugling away from the elk and

and then another bull that you're bugling toward the elk that you're trying to call in and creating this scenario where it's like there's two bulls over here fighting over something mixing that in with the frenzy of the cow calls is a really good way to just build this up you'll really know if the elk are responding to it if the other bulls around are lighting off you'll also know that if you're trying to call in that herd bull he's going to be the one that is probably making all the other noise

Whereas the other bulls around are now going to switch into this mode of hearing you bugle really dominant and displaying toward that herd bull that's also displaying and maybe one other bull sounding off. And what the other satellite bulls are going to do is they're just going to kind of maybe quiet down and investigate.

This is where when you're set up, you got to make sure you're watching because it's really likely that you're going to have another elk come into your setup. A lot of times I'll get spikes coming in, but I've had some really good size bulls, even some bigger than what we would term the herd bull, come into this setup quiet just to investigate and see like what the heck is going on.

because the other bull might actually be starting to take his cows away from where you're at. So I like to make a lot of noise and then I like to keep that noise going as I'm following that herd bull's bugle. So I want to stay within a certain amount of distance and just keep that volume up and keep that elk in earshot where it sounds like, okay, I'm within a certain distance of the herd and the other elk around are going to be coming and checking out my location. But it really involves in

in some ways, over-calling. Because you're just building up this hype, you're building up a real scenario that happens, and you'll start to see that this scenario, if it hasn't already started to happen where you're at with the elk that you're calling at, you can kind of build up a frenzy amongst some elk that might be near you. Along with the making noise, I mentioned this in the story, but I just really want to explain how I do it, is

There's a little bit of running around when it comes to creating this elk party. It's very hard to successfully create this elk party as well when you're just by yourself trying to call a bull in solo. That's why I actually really like this tactic when I'm hunting with someone else. But if you're both hunting and you've got a bow, there's so many times where I've been the caller and it's like, oh crap, here comes a nice bull. I'm just going to hold still for a second, let him saunter by, but he's within bow range and then continue to keep calling.

One of the tactics that I think works really well in this particular setup is this tactic where it's like a bull is fired up and he's chasing a hot cow and you really get the correct sound. You literally have to run around and that's like a cow leaving this estrous wine as she's running and then doing some bugles while you're running as well. The bull can hear that

that noise traveling down the mountain as you're bugling. And that really kind of gets him fired up. And that gets that herd bull thinking, oh, another dominant bull is on a cow and I need to go investigate that. I need to forget what I'm doing right now, so long as he's not on his own hot cow and then come investigate what's going on. If that herd bull does have a hot cow with him per chance while this is going on,

you're probably more likely to be calling in satellite bulls and other bulls at this particular time but it's a really good tactic to get those other bulls to kind of think oh what's going on over here this is where the noise is at this is where the party's at you want to try to keep it louder and more interesting than the real elk that are just nearby

Now just like any good movie party, stuff is always getting broken. And it's the same way when you create this illusion of an elk party. One of the things that I notice new elk callers do wrong

they're afraid to make natural sounds so you think of it like this you sneak into a herd of elk and you're throwing out 20 cow calls and aggressive bugles and yet you're standing in one position and it's dead quiet all the other time if you've ever been into a herd of actual elk that are rutting and making those noises it sounds like two trains just went off the tracks going off the rails through a bunch of deadfall

And so you really have to kind of create those sounds. Don't be afraid to break branches, to rake a tree, to throw out other sounds that cue those elk into thinking, oh man, there is definitely a herd of large undulants running around having a good time over.

of there. So what that might mean for me is I'll pick a spot that's kind of thicker and where I've got sticks and other things that I can break. They sound like elk walking through. Maybe when I'm running, I might pick a spot that's going to sound like breaking branches and other things. If you've actually been in a herd of elk, that's what it sounds like. And so recreating that

is really, really important to kind of rounding out this illusion. There's been times where I've noticed that a bull will hang up and I'm just calling back and forth, but I'm sounding like this massive party. And then I realized, oh yeah, well, there's a lot of stuff around here and he's not hearing any of these other sounds. So maybe I'll mix in going over to a tree and just raking a tree.

That raking noise, not only is it a good display of dominance and can infuriate other bulls, it has this audio cue to them that is more than just the calling that sounds like, okay, there's something going on over there. Especially if you start to hear another bull rake back, like the raking, the breaking the sticks, the moving around can be really important into adding realism to creating this elk party.

Now as an additional bonus to helping this tactic work, you really have to keep this tactic mobile. So there's a specific scenario where it works really well and that's when you find a really fired up bull

and you get into a group of elk that are probably gonna start talking. And one of the main reasons that elk start talking is when they're moving, they're trying to stay together as a unit as these bulls are coming around and just messing up their groove. They're going in there, they're breaking up the party, trying to steal some cows away and do their thing. And you'll start hearing elk talking back and forth. You can actually start building that elk-cow-elk chatter yourself by using the cow call and calling to the cows.

Once you do that, it's very likely that the herd bull or maybe some of the other bulls will actually start doing what you're kind of making an illusion of creating where they're going to start driving other cows away and splitting things up and that herd will keep moving.

One thing I like to do is I like to set up and get set up for a while. But if I start to hear that main bull that's bugling toward me move off, I'm going to keep dogging him. Last year I talked about dogging bulls. So we're just going to keep going after him and keep setting up that cow party at a distance where I'm sure I won't be seen or scare him away, but also not so far away that the rest of the elk are just going to continue with those live elk they're chasing. Now, if you've lost the herd or whatever,

that main action was going, it might not be a bad idea to just hunker down for a little bit. And like, if you all of a sudden the other elk stop, shut up, everything quiets down, keep the party going for a little bit longer where you are. You probably won't draw a herd bull in that way, but it's very likely that you'll draw one of the other satellite bulls that might be, uh,

late to the party, the old late comer to the party, the one that was across the canyon, you hear all this crap going on, and now he's going to show up. So just because everything quiets down or maybe you've lost the herd doesn't necessarily mean that this tactic won't still work, but you're going to be looking for an elk that's probably going to sneak in silently, probably going to be a less dominant bull, which in many instances is all I'm really looking for anyway. So that's a great tactic.

to actually just getting a bull anyway. So those are some things to think about. Remember, when you are creating this party, another thing that I will throw in there every once in a while is just some eye candy. I'll use a Montana decoy and use that as some kind of visual aid or visual cue that kind of distracts them from the crazy stuff that me as the caller is doing and focuses their attention somewhere else. This technique really works best if

thick timber. So it's kind of situational but when you find the right situation it works really good. So you're looking for more peak rut as opposed to pre-rut and maybe a little bit this will work.

creating like a large group of cows and making a lot of noise kind of works all the time. But primarily this tactic is 100% money when it's peak rut, when cows are starting to jump into that estrous cycle, and then you hone in on a group where that might be likely. And by doing those things and by creating that party, I would say that you're probably most definitely going to call a bull in in that scenario.

I hope you're enjoying a little of this elk action. Get you all fired up for September. I mentioned toward the end there, adding a decoy for realism. So next week, why don't we just talk about a little bit of elk decoying? I think that that's one thing that I've found over the years. I've had a lot of success with. You see a lot more guys with these decoys.

There's a lot of options out there right now, but there's certain ways. I mean, I've used them for a long time and sometimes they work good and sometimes they just are more pain than anything. But I'm going to give you a couple of setups where I've used them with a lot of success.

And then we'll go into a little more of a recap on just some of the best elk tips, pulling together some stuff from last year and some stuff from this year, and really just build out kind of a final scene before the elk season kicks off. So I hope you enjoy it. Just as a reminder, shoot me some questions. I want to do another Q&A here pretty quick. So I like to get those ahead of time because...

generally when that Q and A's that next Q and A's going to come out, you know where I'm going to be. I'm hopefully going to be just screaming at a bull and a bull screaming back in the elk woods for sure. I'm hoping maybe, I don't know. I'm going to be hunting with a friend. I don't know what I'm going to hunt with. I might actually just hunt with my longbow. I think he's going to bring his recurve. I might bring my longbow or my recurve. Maybe I'll just bring my regular bow. I don't know. I'm excited. I'm just getting fired up. I've got a lot of good spots I'm going to check out and

Did quite a bit of preseason scouting this year because some of my trips were canceled or whatever. So I had a little bit of time, but

But I think all this stuff is just going to be key to understanding elk and get you more successful. And maybe you don't have an elk hunt plan to this year, but learning these tactics now is the key. If you're a guy that's listening, I get a lot of messages from people like, hey, I haven't gone on my first Western big game hunt yet, but just listening to these things and then getting some calls and practicing and just understanding how to use them. Because I think the stuff that I'm talking about, I don't know, at least when I got started, there wasn't this kind of information out there.

And I really felt like all the calling elk stuff just never really, all the information never really worked for me. So I had to develop my own ways of doing things. And over the years doing that, I found a lot of success. And there's a lot of things that I've learned about elk and elk behavior. And I know I said it last week, but really understanding elk behavior lends itself a lot more to calling in a bull than how good your bugle is. So if you're new to it, you know, don't, don't get discouraged if you

you know, you'll always be number two to the elk. And I've heard elk make some real shitty bugles too, where you're like, that's definitely a dude. And it ends up being like a really nice bull. But outside of that, you know, just think of these things, get some practice in, and I will see you all next week right here on Cutting the Distance. So until then, party on Garth.

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