Ep. 82: Turkeys, Ticks and Tactics
01:04:33 Share

Check engine light on? Take the guesswork out of your check engine light with O'Reilly Veriscan. It's free and provides a report with solutions based on over 650 million vehicle scans verified by ASE certified master technicians. And if you need help, we can recommend a shop for you. Ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today. O, O, O'Reilly Auto Parts.

There's nothing like snook hook sets at dawn or catching a tarpon in the moonlight. Find your next fishing trip made easy on fishingbooker.com and experience the magic of the Sunshine State or any other destination on your fishing bucket list. Book a blue water adventure in search of sailfish or go snapper fishing with the kids. With over 6,000 captains and trips to choose from, planning your next one just got a whole lot easier. Download the Fishing Booker app

on the Google Play or App Store or visit them online at fishingbooker.com to book your trip today. You ever get that feeling, the walls closing in, the concrete jungle suffocating you? You crave some wide open spaces, the chance to connect with nature, maybe in a spot all your own. Well, head over to land.com.

They've got ranches, forests, mountains, streams, you name it. Search by acreage. You can search by location. You can search by the kind of hunting and fishing you're dreaming of. Land.com. It is where the adventure begins. Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today we're live here in Kansas. My guest is a very special guy. I've been able to turkey hunt with him here in Kansas, Dirk Durham. Some may consider you a turkey hunting pro, expert, aficionado.

don't forget fitness model and fitness model. Yeah. So no, we were in Kansas. Uh, it's what's become a yearly trip for us. Anybody listen to the podcast, it's usually one of our two or three turkey hunt trips. So here's talk about turkey hunting, uh, Kansas a lot. So we're here. It's been awesome. Randy and his buddies, they, they did it for the last 15, 20 years. They did a big turkey camp, all of his college buddies come and it was a great time. We got to experience that for a few days and now we're, uh, we're here on our own trying to finish it up. I was fortunate to kill a,

I heard last night, and Dirk is hunting for a monster. He's not just going to kill any turkey. He's looking for a big one. Not just any turkey. Basically, Moby Dick of the turkeys. Giant. Yeah. We actually just... We had to run my bird into a taxidermist here, and we were on our way back. And we're, what, half a mile? Maybe a quarter mile from the house. Almost a stone's throw. And...

Wouldn't you know it, we're out dinking around in the middle of the day. It's pretty windy here today and just a rope dragging across the main county road here. Yeah, this big old Tom comes walking across the road just casual as can be and his head was the size of my fist.

And his neck was longer than my forearm and about the same thickness. I mean, I'm not a little guy, but I'm not a muscle bound guy either. Maybe some would say you are muscle bound. Well, I'm more proportionate. I am a fitness model. It's always been good here in Kansas. And I think since we've been coming to Kansas, it's probably the best year for turkey numbers.

that they've had in a while. Yeah. Seem to bounce back a little bit. Yeah. Lots of turkeys here on the property. It's been good. We saw seven jakes today this morning in one spot. Yeah. Different this year. It's been, they've been going through a drought here. And so normally we don't have a whole lot of vegetation, but you step inside the shade line here.

And you can't barely see a turkey's head over the brush. It looks a lot different than years past, but turkey hunting is really good. Yeah, it seems like the woods are just like about a month ahead of schedule. Things are in bloom. All the little bushes and brush are leafed out. It's tough to see a turkey coming through that stuff. Yeah, April 20th, me and Randy were down spraying one of his food plots, getting the grass and the broadleafs out of there so the clover can pop through and

There was a nest and when they mowed it down, the winter wheat was so high, the cover crop, they had to mow it so they could spray it effectively. And they noticed there was a hen sitting on a nest already in April 20th. She had 11 eggs, I believe like April 18th, she had nine or 10. I think maybe she laid one more since they had been in there. So, and she was sitting all day. She wasn't leaving that nest. So, I mean, it's...

seems to be really early. I mean, I'm sure people that know more or the biology of turkeys say, oh, it's completely normal, but, um, seems pretty dang early. And they're, uh, you know, they're, they're more advanced this year. You know, it's more like hunting them in early May to mid May. These guys felt like, uh, this year more so. Well, one thing I've noticed, um,

compared to years past a lot of times years past and we're we've hunted this thing late in may even middle to late may and we'll see groups of hens together and gobbers following them around i mean they won't leave those hens and this time

like i'm seeing a lot of single hens out you know in the middle of the day or early evening by themselves for a little bit they'll come out in a field and eat a little bit and then go back so they're probably coming off the nest and gonna go eat yep yep real quiet hens they're all by themselves and you know this morning we were on a bird we were trying to be on a bird that was roosted all by himself no hens around anywhere in sight um just seems a little weird you know but uh

No, it's been good. So we're going to roll into our typical cutting the distance. When I'm the host, we're going to roll into listener questions first. And I do have to apologize. I had me and Chris Parrish recorded an awesome episode, if you guys could all hear it. The sad reality is we had some technical difficulties and Chris's side of the audio didn't upload. So what, I mean, you go from Chris Parrish in the turkey hunting world to Dirk Durham, you don't, you don't,

drop too many you don't miss a beat so we're gonna we're gonna roll some of the same episode i recorded with chris we're gonna try to redo it i may share a little bit of his answers um added in with me and dirk's answers but um i really wish we could have got that dang episode out but uh we'll we'll circle back and meet up with him you know somewhere else but uh you know another time we'll ask him these questions but once again you have any questions for me or my guests um

Email them to us at ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com or feel free to send us a message on social media and we'll do our best to get them included here. So I have to thank the Washington State Wild Turkey Hunting Club for this group of questions. The first one comes from Tyson Gray. We would love to hear you guys compare your approach on Easterns versus Merriams versus Rios in the West and how they differ from each other.

See if Dirk wants to take a crack at that. Have you hunted Rios before or just Merriams and Easterns? So the Merriams in Idaho, there's Merriams and Rios. Yep. And they seem to be crossed up a lot. If not, I don't know if there's any pure lines on either one. But so I feel like it's kind of just a hybrid at that point. And yeah,

So I'm not really sure how to compare that. But definitely the difference between, you know, Western birds and Eastern birds are definitely a big contrast. Yeah. These Easterns here, you know, in Kansas, I've got the...

The luxury back when Easterns were doing pretty decent around my hometown of PL. I've got to hunt a lot of Easterns, you know, just similar to you. We have Rios that are kind of mixed in more so in the blues. And we've got our Merriams that are more of those mountain birds and Easterns just more hard headed there. They don't want to talk as much. It seems like you can almost set your watch to it. Like on this trip, it's eight 17 and 43 seconds at that time of the day right now. Like they're done talking for the most part. They're just done.

They be quiet. They're hardheaded. You can't you multiple times on this trip. We've known their birds in an area. You go out and hit them with an owl scream, a hawk scream, a crow call your loudest yelps, and they're just not going to talk. They're just not going to let you know they're there. You know, the birds, the bird I killed last night did not make a sound where hen yelp and there was a live hen that came out.

in the food plot with them. They didn't care. It was, it was just, it was, it's been difficult and it was tough to get them to, you know, to, to make a sound. And so, uh, Miriam's a lot more talkative. Uh, you know, Miriam's,

They don't like to roost necessarily in the same spots. These birds here seem to want to roost in the same general. They got their favorite roosting spots. You know, we'll follow a group of birds and they may roost in one or two spots, but it's the same spots typically every night. You know, they've got their trees they want. You know, but other than that, I know Parrish had kind of alluded to, you know, pressure. These Easterns have been hunted for longer.

um, most, you know, most of the time than, than some of the transplanted Merriam's and Rio's in certain areas. So he feels like they've, they've got an edge or a little smarter. Um, sometimes, you know, and maybe that's some of the reasons we, we think that they're, they're more hardheaded, but, uh,

Well, they have a bigger head. They definitely do. The head size on the Eastern is way larger than a Miriam or a Rio there in Idaho. And maybe they have a bigger brain. Maybe it's not the size of a chili bean. Maybe it's the size of a tangerine. I don't know. But they seem a little bit more...

intelligent. A little smarter, if you will. Yeah, their survival instinct seems to be at a heightened level compared to Merriam's and Rio's. So our second question comes from Kaysen Kent. Do you need multiple different types of calls or can one or two calls get the job done consistently? Yeah. I consider...

any kind of animals I'm calling, it's kind of like going fishing, right? I want to have a handful of different, different calls in my, in my pouch or bag or whatever. Um, and no, and that's no different with Turkey hunting. Um, though I will say I've got a, I've got this one buddy who considers himself quite the Turkey caller, quite, quite the Turkey hunter. And his only call he owns is an old, um,

as an old box, a friction box. Right. And, and he runs that thing with no finesse. He just, he runs that thing just wide open, just, he just starts just hatchet in that thing. And I'm just like, Oh man, you gotta put a little finesse on that thing. And, and,

He gets them coming and in, in Idaho. So, and you know, so we're hunting those Miriam's or hybrids and those, those Tom's will come in to it really well. I mean, I don't even think he can even run a turkey diaphragm. So,

And with that said, here, well, sometimes we throw the whole book at them. You know, we just kind of run through our gamut of different calls and stuff. And sometimes they're just so hard-headed, you're not getting an answer for nothing. Or one call is not drawn in better than another one. It seems like when they want to come, they want to come to, and it doesn't matter which one. Yeah.

Um, but same to be said about, about diaphragms too. Uh, my experience I've had, um, sometimes I can't get a, get a turkey to answer me at all with a diaphragm and I pick up a box or a pot and it's like, bam, now everything's changed and they're answering and they're coming. So. Yeah. We're going to get to our best dump here in a little bit. So I'm not gonna talk about every call that I carry, but as far as like, I think you can get it done consistently with one or two calls, uh, you know, to answer Cason's question directly. Like, yeah, one or two calls, you're going to probably, uh,

Kill 90% of the birds, 95% of the birds you would kill. But, you know, just like any good tradesman, you know, if you have a circular saw, a table saw, and a, you know, a recip saw,

You can do a lot more work a lot faster and a lot more efficient at times or do the job right instead of having one saw trying to make it work on all of them. So just like any carpenter, any tradesman, the more tools and the right specific tools you have at certain times. And what I would say, I would equate that to is sometimes there are birds that just want to gobble at a

a diaphragm or they just want to gobble at that box sound or they want to gobble at the sharp pitch of a crystal, you know, over aluminum call, whatever it may be with a certain high pitch striker. Um, so I would say there are times where having more calls may be to your advantage, but you can definitely get the job done with, um, you know, being, being efficient with any of them. Um, but you know, ideally diaphragms are, are well suited for, for turkey hunting. But you know, if you're good at a pot call or a box call, um, you can definitely make, make it work. Um,

And then Cason's had a follow-up question. Are decoys worth it? We've went back and forth on this one yesterday. I had to crawl out to our decoy to get the jakes off of them. They 100% thought that that Dave Smith decoy is worth

hen was real and was it was inappropriate what they were doing um with with the decoy but i crawled out multiple times to beat them off of it and uh it it was obviously effective those jakes were locked they were convinced it was real and then there are times where you know that tom just comes strutting right in and there are times where i think especially we we hinted at it already these birds are a little bit finicky right now a little bit wary um you know if you throw a posturing hen out there and not like an upright or breeding hen like sometimes a hen

you know you we've seen it in calling right where you're you're that hand doesn't want to you guys are in a battle and then she'll eventually take the tom away from you she doesn't like if you put a posturing in out there like it might not be the right move at the right time um you know so decoys are definitely worth it we've been packing around all week and in certain settings where maybe we need to to put some visual out there at the you know at the edge of a long cut or the edge of a long field so they can get a visual and maybe have a reason to come down but there are times like last night

We were a little concerned with if these, you know, on a nighttime hunt, if these turkeys come out in this field to feed and the hinges, are they, are they going to be, you know, have a care in the world that it's there. So, uh, I'm, I'm kind of on both sides of this one. Uh, but we, we always pack the decoys and, um, they, they work pretty effectively. Yeah.

Next question from John Hicks. After you spook a bird or shoot his buddy, how long do you have to wait to get back after him? He mentions his son had missed a nice time yesterday. Today, his whole flock wouldn't even react to any amount of calls. I had a several years ago, I had a morning where I was on these two gobblers and they were just going crazy on the roost. And I get as close as I can. They fly down and they come towards me, but I could not get them to break.

50 yards. And that was back when I had a, you know, I'm just shooting a kind of a full choke and the Turkey loads at the time. I think there was like a combo of like fours and sixes and stuff. And it wasn't nothing like the Turkey loads we have these days. And I'm like, I think I can reach out and touch that, that Turkey at 50 yards. So yeah,

When the time was right, I put the old shotgun bead on the turkey's head and I missed bigger than it can be. I mean, I don't even know where the pellets went, but they took off running. So discouraged, I walked back to the pickup, which by chance, the turkeys kind of ran off back towards the pickup. So I got back to the pickup. It was probably about a half mile walk. I get to the pickup. I'm like, well, I'm going to crow call here and see if I can hear anything. And I crow call and bam, immediately.

I get an answer and it sounds like kind of where those toms went to. So I grabbed my shotgun and went back over there in the woods and slipped in and I sat down and I made like four yelps and those toms could not get to me quick enough. I shot the one at like five yards or something. It was incredible. It was like they'd forgotten about what had just happened.

um, completely earlier. They wouldn't hardly come in close enough, but also I was in some heavier timber when they did come in this next time, but they were gobbling and just running in as fast as they could. So I don't know how long their memory is. So I, I would,

I would think don't give up too quick on them. Yep. And, and I think it's just, we've seen it here one morning, they'll be on fire. You get a little weird weather change or like one night they'll be on fire. And the next night they don't make, you know, we've heard, we know there are birds around us. We'll go back the next morning and, oh, they're gobbling the roost next morning. They didn't gobble it all that night, you know, real bad morning. You know, there's mornings where the guys all said opening morning here, everything was cranking the next morning. Nobody heard a bugle or bugle, a gobble besides, besides the one guy, you know? So it's like,

it's the birds are real temperamental and I, I wouldn't, um, equate, you know, not hearing them or, uh,

you know, because of the, the miss, I would say they're, they're pretty short memory. Um, you know, they're, they're gonna, they're gonna recreate. That's what they're out there for. They're going to do their, their, their stuff. And so I would just say it was more of a coincidence that, you know, the day after they may be quieted down. Um, you know, we've, we had some neighbors here that shot at some birds and it quieted them down and moved them for a day, but eventually they came back to their preferred roost and, um, you know, settled down. So,

Yeah. We appreciate that. That question, uh, John next question from Ryan Clark, um, best calling techniques for early season birds when they're hand up. He says, sometimes he feels like any calling he does is doing more damage than good. Um, and, and maybe sometimes he feels like he should be silent and try to sneak in. Um, what's your opinion on that? I think in the last few years, we've, we've run into that a lot here in Kansas. And I feel like

And as we're calling, then those hens are leading those toms away. But if we kind of go over to where they kind of went and then set up again and start doing some calling and not overdo the calling, just call a little bit, just to let them know, hey, there's some hens over here. Well, those gobblers will get...

kind of tired or spun out or whatever they're trying to do with those other hens and there'll be a lull in whatever they're doing and they'll come back and they'll be like you know I remember there were some hens over here I'm gonna go check those out yeah so it's a major game of patience at that point so you just have to sit patiently and have your head on a swivel and be very you know mindful of movement but we've had that you know an hour later maybe two hours later

bam, you hear a gobble and that, that gobbler's right there at 20 yards from you. Randy's bird on opening day here. We actually got in maybe a little late. Didn't know exactly where they roosted, maybe misplanned it. And, uh,

We actually bumped some birds off the roost. And that morning had a bunch of goblin, three big long beards behind us, goblins, some out in front of us. You know, it's just one of those mornings we were able to just kind of keep calling occasionally. And then maybe more patiently, we kind of stopped for 20 to 30 minutes in the middle, kind of let things settle down and let that flock figure out what their morning routine was. And then started picking our calling back up. And slowly we heard two gobblers break off and come towards us, you know, and he's able to kill one of those. So why it can be very, you know, uh,

It can be discouraging as you're trying to call these early hend up birds.

But I say, you know, be persistent, stick with it, and then just kind of let the turkeys dictate. Like if, you know, they're not hammering back at your calls, and if you can't tell that they're responding to you, maybe call more sparingly or more patiently versus, you know, if they're hammering your calls and you can kind of keep them going and keep them excited, then I would say stick with them. And, you know, at times here when this hunting gets really tough early, when they are flocked up or henned up, which they don't seem to be as much this year,

um, you know, this is where you're scouting and patterning or listening like, Hey, that bird keeps going through this area or he keeps, you know, going off the point of this, you know, meadow or whatever it may be, whatever area you're hunting, um, you know, use, use the patterning. It's not as fun of hunting, but you can definitely set up and, you know, just kind of wait for them to come back through. I've also had, you know, good luck after they, they, after the hens laid them off, I almost said cows after the hens laid them off. Um,

Later on, if there's like an area close by that's kind of an open meadow-y area or maybe a little open knoll or something where the toms like to strut, once those hens kind of get figured out what they're going to do for the day, a lot of times those toms will go back out there in those openings and just strut around. Now, the hens might be somewhere close by, but if you know about those kind of places, like, you know, I've seen toms strutting here a lot. It's super smart to go sit down.

in those places really, you know, within shot range of where they're going to strut and just sit there and maybe make a few calls very sparingly and then just be quiet and just let, let it unfold. Cause a lot of times, you know, an hour or two later, those toms, they want to be there anyway. They're going to come back out and strut and, and you can take that to your advantage. Yep. Yeah.

O'Reilly auto parts are in the business of keeping your car on the road. I love O'Reilly. In fact, the other day, I'm not kidding you. The other day I went into an O'Reilly auto parts looking for a part. I needed a different thing that wasn't really in there. You know, only like tangentially related to what they carry.

They did not have it, and the dude told me specifically where I would go down the road to find it is how nice they are. They offer friendly, helpful service and the parts knowledge you need for all your maintenance and repairs. Thousands of parts and accessories in stock, in-store, or online, so you never have to worry if you're in a jam.

They'll test your battery for free. If you need your windshield wipers replaced, a brake light fixed, or quick service, they'll help you find the right part or point you to a local repair shop for help. Whether you're a car aficionado or an auto novice, you'll find the employees at O'Reilly Auto Parts are knowledgeable, helpful, best of all, friendly. These guys are your one-stop shop for all things auto, do-it-yourself,

You can find what you need in-store or online. Stop by O'Reilly Auto Parts today or visit them at OReillyAuto.com slash MeatEater. That's OReillyAuto.com slash MeatEater. We've all seen plenty of gadgets and fads come and go, but here's one product that stood the test of time. Seafoam Motor Treatment. Lots of hunters and anglers know that seafoam helps engines run better and last longer.

It's really simple. When you pour it in your gas tank, sea foam cleans harmful fuel deposits that cause engine problems. I'm talking common stuff like hard starts, rough engine performance, or lost fuel economy. Sea foam is an easy way to prevent or overcome these problems. Just pour a can in your gas tank and let it clean your fuel system. You probably know someone who has used a can of sea foam to get their truck or boat going again. People everywhere rely on sea foam to keep their trucks, boats, and small engines running the way that they should the entire season.

Help your engine run better and last longer. Pick up a can of Seafoam today at your local auto parts store or visit seafoamworks.com to learn more.

This is Brent Reeves from This Country Life. What makes South Dakota the greatest for pheasant hunting? With over 1.2 million pheasants harvested last year, South Dakota boasts the highest population of pheasants in the nation. In fact, you'd have to add up the total harvest from neighboring states just to get that many birds.

There's also millions of wide open acres chock full of different landscapes, meaning the hunt in one county is often completely different from just a few counties over. But what really makes South Dakota the greatest goes way beyond just hunting a colorful bird. It's the pursuit of something more like the camaraderie that awaits all kinds of hunters from all walks of life and partaking in South Dakota tradition over 100 years in the making.

It's about taking the greatest shots and watching your dog work the greatest fields in the greatest lands, carrying on the greatest heritage and making the greatest memories. So what are you waiting for? From the rush of the flush to the stories at the end of the day, experience a thrill like no other. Learn how at HuntTheGreatest.com.

Last question is from Mike Zebko. Do you have any tips for dummy proofing the process of learning to use a diaphragm call? I've paid attention to fit, tried multiple types of diaphragms, and after 20 years of turkey hunting, I still can't seem to get it. I'm totally confident with my box and slate, but really want to figure out how to use this diaphragm call. What do you have for me?

Oh man, I'm going to let you kind of jump on this one. If you were asking about elk calls, I'd have some advice, but I will say this about any kind of diaphragm calls. It's all muscle memory. So if you're trying to practice and you're just trying to get it down, you don't have to do it for like an hour a day. It doesn't take that kind of a time commitment. What it does take is consistency. So maybe 10 minutes a day. And after like, after

after like two weeks of 10 minutes a day, just throwing the call in every day, pretty soon your tongue and, and your, your air pressure and your brain and all that stuff will start getting muscle memory and you'll start, they'll start working together better. But if you just try a little bit here and there, um, it's really hard to build that muscle memory, but just getting that thing in your mouth and, and what can you do? Can you, can you make a Yelp? Can you make any kind of a noise? Um,

I like, I look at kids, kids will, they'll take a diaphragm. They'll take any kind of a noisy noisemaker and they'll start blowing on it and they will check, test the boundaries of everything. They'll make every single noise.

Every single noise they possibly can. One minute, they got a diaphragm in their mouth. They're trying to talk like Donald Duck. The next minute, they're trying to squeal like a pig. And the next minute, they're making siren noises and just making weird noises. Like get that diaphragm in your mouth. Start making some noises with it. Understand, you know, the parameters, what kind of tongue pressure it takes to make different sounds. Just any kind of a sound. And then start like...

Trying to do the exercises. We're trying to actually make it Yelp. So I actually had the, I had messaged Mike after this comment and said, hey, I'm more than willing to help you out.

First thing I asked them to do is put the call in your mouth, try to run what you think you need to do for five minutes and take it out and send me a picture straight top down. I wanted to see, because one of the things we struggle with right off the bat is getting these things sealed off. Me and you have seen it hundreds and maybe thousands of times. People that can't run a diaphragm, we can't get the air sealed off. Until you can get the air sealed off, you're never going to make a clean sound. You're never going to get the volume. You never can get anything right. So when Mike had taken his call out of his mouth, sent me a picture, he had

And usually we get a, some folds at like 45 degrees from the center of the call. Like if you come back on like a pizza shape, the, the, the corners of the U shape of the tape is typically have folds. And we're like, Oh, there's too much material there. It's folding up. We can't get it sealed. We asked people to cut that material out, try it again. Mike had a very interesting fold on the right side of his mouth.

like directly horizontal of the call like a big major fold that the call was trying well if you can't get that to seal off so the first thing me and mike started working with was cutting his tape more narrow trying to cut material out trying to cut little slits around that area to so it can fold and and become more malleable

Um, so Fitment and, and sealing it. And so one thing with Fitment and I'll talk about other brands because I used to use these, you know, night and hail hunter specialties. Um, you know, the, the zinc, some of these old, you know, Quaker boy, the old school turkey calls or what I call them old school. Cause that's what I used to use. They come on what's

considered a adult small frame, but for me as a, as a call maker, they're large frames. They're very, very big calls, the actual structure of them underneath the tape. And a lot of times they struggled to get them to fit my mouth or they'll, they'll, you know, be candid a little bit left or right because they are so big and I've got a big pallet.

So one thing that we do aside from the parish Huckleberry kill zone and manipulator, all of our other tricky calls are built on what I would consider a medium frame that we've found to fit people a whole lot better. They may be a little bit different specs or stretches, um,

in those diaphragms than the larger ones. And you may be able to get better sounds or different sounds out of a large one. But one thing I would urge people to do is all of our tricky calls, aside from those original Parrish 3 in our lineup are built on a smaller frame, could be the ticket just because of the actual structure of the call being to fit up in your palate a little bit better.

And then, like Dirk said, a lot of practice. Work on the high note. I would start with a ghost cut. Try to get that kiki note down. Get that. If you can just hold that...

Like the very high-pitched mosquito noise. That's the note you need to start with. Even for turkeys, you may not hold it near as long as you do on an elk, but then you'll drop your bottom jaw more so than elk calling where we tend to just move our tongue and pressure with our tongue. Turkey calling, you'll actually drop your bottom jaw, and that's what's going to give you your note articulation, your high to low. And so find a good starting point, work on that, and that's the best advice. There's lots of good YouTube videos out there. And

In fact, we'd not to interrupt, but in fact, we've got two different YouTube videos of Chris Parrish kind of walking you through like from the very basics. Video number one is the very basics of diaphragms and video number two is advanced. So, you know, how to purr and cut and all that stuff. Hey, I don't even know about our own YouTube channel. Dirk says, head over to the Phelps Game Calls YouTube channel and check out the Chris Parrish series on running a diaphragm. Phelps. Hey, I, I,

I wear a lot of hats. I'm not a YouTube video manager. Do you have them set up for people in a specific playlist? So like turkey educational. I think they're in how to's. And also I think, correct me if I'm wrong, I think if you scan the barcode or not the barcode, the QR code on the back of any of the Philips diaphragm calls, it will take you to a place where you can watch on how to use the diaphragms. Whether if turkey calls Chris Parrish or if they're –

um elk calls you can see me my smiling face and tell you how to run it up so hey if you don't want to waste your time searching for youtube just go ahead and buy a package of our calls and scan that qr code it'll be way easier so wow you're a heck of a salesman it'll get you right to it hey i'm i think i have a tick on my back do you like i just got bit by a tick um i would let people know i would tell you i'll check for it here after the podcast but they're

Yeah. You can use the mirror. Some good lighting. Well, once again, thank you all for your questions here. It gives us a nice little segment here for cutting the distance. If you have questions for me or my guest, CTD at PhelpsGameCalls.com or send us a message on social. We'll do our best to get them included. So now me and Dirk are going to jump into the conversation. Let's start with a little hunt recap here. To date, we've got a couple of days left. You've got a turkey tag in your pocket. You know, Kansas, it was...

Started pretty slow. I think they talked about just seven to eight days ago prior to the opener. Their trail cams are just loaded. Flocks and flocks, you know, big flocks, hens, you know, seven, eight, 10 hens, multiple gobblers. They show up here on the 17th of the opener and everything had changed in that short week. They went from, you know, the big groups of hens to, you know, toms running together and hens being all singled up. But I don't know if anybody knows

I've seen three hens in one field at one time, but they were all kind of independent. They just happened to be there. They all came out separate. They weren't all feeding together, running together. Last night, a hen separate. This morning, we had a single hen. We had multiple single hens this morning. Just seems to be at a weird stage, and maybe these hens are all...

laying all day already, which seems crazy because usually we come in early May, May 5th to 10th, and they're still flocked up, which now they're already seem to be kind of out of that phase a little bit. Yeah, right.

Randy thinks all those single hens that we're seeing are, they're laying, you know, laying on eggs. They're sitting on their nest, coming out and getting a little quick bite to eat. And then, cause they'll come out in those, those meadows or those fields and eat, scratch around and eat a little bit. And then bam, they disappear and go. And they, they're not, if they see another hen, they'd avoid them. They're not like chumming around with them. Yep.

Yeah. And, uh, we've had some, a lot of Jake's, I mean, credit to Randy and his management of his property. He is loaded up with Jake's, which, uh, any of you that have hunted Tom's long or Turkey's long enough, and you're trying to kill a long beard and let the Jake's go can realize. And some of you may not know, maybe you haven't experienced this yet, but I think the ratio is two to one, the Tom wins a two Jake's to one Tom, the Tom will still kind of do his thing, but you start to get to that three to one, four to one ratio. And that Tom is,

becomes very nervous around that many jakes right any of you that's seen it you'll i may be telling some of you something you already know but these jakes will bully that tom right and steal his hand or run him off or and so we're we're dealing with lots of jakes which makes

sometimes trying to call these toms in you know these single toms a little bit more difficult um you know they're they're wary so we we actually have stopped putting our jake decoy out in the field right because they don't know if that's the only jake if there's more jakes on the edge um and uh it's just it's been tough the the long beards for the most part um we've seen a few singles but for the most part these long beards are all running together um a little bit and

It's been an interesting year. Lots of turkeys around, which helps, but calling birds, we've called a few in. We've patterned a few birds and we've just got lucky on a few birds, I'd say.

It's like the turkeys are living a gang mentality right now. You got the longbeards versus the jakes. And like last night, your turkey, you got, there was three longbeards together. You know, it's funny. They're running these little groups and you would think, you know, having a hen decoy or some running some calls would just be a slam dunk.

anytime, but it just hasn't been a slam dunk every single time. One time I'll see some Jake's we'll have a decoy out. We'll, we'll see a group of Jake's walk by. You do some Colin, they'll look over at that, at that decoy and just keep going. Like there have zero interest. And then the next one, like the next day you're out there and the Jake's are molesting your decoy. Yeah. Um, we've been getting kind of mixed signals from, you know, Jake's and, and long beards. So it's been kind of a weird, weird, weird week. Yep. Thankfully, um,

One saving grace. There's just a lot of turkeys around for the most part. Um, you know, even though they're being quiet or sometimes real, real, uh, you know, quiet, quiet and, uh,

living in the woods they will fly off the roost and you know where i come from birds like to go to ag go out in the open these birds are completely content living in the timber all day long not getting out of there so you sometimes don't see them we've like i said we've called the multiple birds they just don't answer um so yeah it's interesting we're having a lot of fun like always here but you know kind of beating our head against the wall um at times uh and

Not everything's going our way, but we've had pretty dang good success. I am curious, what's your tick count? Have you been keeping track of these Kansas ticks? I think through yesterday, I've picked five of them off me that were embedded and were latched on. And yesterday afternoon, I think we thumped and swept and squished

I don't know, probably 20 each that were crawling on us. Yeah, I was really starting to question if a turkey was worth the amount of anxiety and just, I just don't like ticks. It kind of freaked me out. They're all over. If you waited 20 seconds and looked back down, you'd have two or three seed ticks crawling up your boot. The big one, if you know the answer, please email me

at CTD at Phelps game calls or figure out how to email Phelps game calls. I'm not going to put my email out there, but I want somebody to know the big ones. We have permethrin on everything and we, we re-upped our game last night. We did a second application because I was tired of ticks. The big ones, the full size adults, they will crawl up, get, they don't get halfway up my gator and they'll tip off dizzy, drunk, poisoned, whatever you want to call it. They're, they're done.

These seed ticks will start up my boot and they're faster and they will make it through my gator. No problem. That permethrin doesn't seem to bother them. And then they're cruising up my leg and then you have to flick them or, you know, get them with your fingernail. I want to know if there's something to that and seed ticks or permethrin doesn't work on them or something weird's going on. But, uh, yeah, we, I've had, I had one, uh,

One Lone Star, one big one in my shin. And then last night I had a little seed tick that wasn't really in. But as we're recording this podcast, the big Lone Star tick bite has a big bump and it itches. So that's a new development in the tick bite. God, I hate these things. If I could figure out a way to just

I've looked, I spent two hours last night before my turkey came in, um, trying to research tea tree oils. If I eat lots of garlic, if I, I was, I'm ready to try anything. I just want to enjoy the turkey hunt and not deal with these dang ticks, but all right. I diverge. We'll, we'll jump back in the podcast, but, uh, these ticks are giving us some fits.

And Dirk, I'm going to give you a tip. I don't know if you know this or not, but gators, when you have them, they are a great addition. You should probably wear them out in the field. Well, I do have gators and I forgot to wear them last night. Oh, you do have them. Yeah. So last night I was sitting there paranoid, picking ticks off my socks, picking ticks off my legs, picking ticks off my pants, off my boots and the seed ticks mostly. And if you don't know what a seed tick is, they're like a miniature version of a normal tick. They're like tiny, tiny.

And if you've got bad eyesight like me, they're hard to see. And sometimes if you have one embedded on you, it's like, is that a tiny little mole or a blemish? Or is that, and you have to kind of like kind of scratch at it and like see if it'll move. And it's like, oh, that's like a latch. It's something latched on. And then you have to get it off. And then I'm like,

But is it a tick? So then I'll put it on a white piece of paper. And if you're like me and stubborn and don't have your readers with you all the time, then I just grab my cell phone and the camera on it and zoom in. Oh, yeah, I see legs. That's a tick. So, yeah, you should definitely have gators on it or you're going to regret it. Yep.

All right. We're going to jump into our, we got about 20 minutes here to finish up. We're going to jump just into our normal discussion. Let's do a turkey vest on. We've always, we tell everybody what we have in our elk pack and what we take on multi-day trips and single day trips. Um, let me know what's in your vest. Um,

First off, I don't have a turkey vest. Oh. I've never been a real vest guy. I think they'd look good on you. Yeah, I probably would. I'd make it look good. No, but what I have is I have a FHF chest rig, which if you're not familiar, it kind of looks like a bino harness, but instead of being more vertical up and down looking, it's more horizontal. So I can store a pot. I'll just tell you what's in it. I have a turkey pot, a striker.

Sometimes I'll have a couple pots or a couple different strikers, different strikers because different strikers made out of different materials will make a different sound with the same pot.

I also have a couple locator calls. I have an owl hooter and I have a three triple threat, triple screamer. What do we call those things? Triple locator. The triple locator. So the triple locator makes a owl scream, a hawk scream, and a pileated woodpecker. And I got that in there. I have a small pair of loophole binoculars.

I also have some diaphragms. I have some stuff to scrub my slate with, you know, some SOS pad. And last but not least, I carry some little pruning clippers. TSA stopped me at Tear Apart. They're like, oh, you can't have these. I'm like, what? Why not? And they're like, you might cut someone's finger off with them.

but then they measured them. They were under seven inches. So they allowed it as a carry on. And, you know, whenever, and I will say, I think I had less ticks on me than Jason had on him last night. And the reason is why is I went through and I clipped all the little bushes and all the little brush and stuff around where I was going to sit on my little seat there. And Jason did not do that. I knew I wanted the cover. It was, I needed to make sure the turkeys didn't see me. Yeah. Well, and then the, but the turkeys didn't see you, but the ticks did.

And anyhow, I got those. So that's kind of what I run in my little vest there. You know what? I won't get in trouble for saying what I got through TSA, and it was on a complete accident. I don't think this... They're going to stop you at TSA tomorrow. Don't put me on the list. So this is the first year we didn't bring shotguns. We had a great idea. We were going to use our bows, and we were going to try to kill a turkey with a bow. We made it about two days until we realized that was real, real tough. It was foolish. Yeah, turkeys are meant to be shot with shotguns.

I didn't have to check a gun, so I didn't bring any ammo. Usually, I bring a check bag, but I took my FHF Apex belt turkey system and just threw it in my carry-on, not thinking anything about it. Well, guess what FHF also makes? They make a shell holder that velcros the inside of your harness, and there sat two 12-gauge shotgun shells, number 9 TSS Federal 1A.

And I got here and I was thinking as we're starting to switch the guns, I'm like, oh, I even got my own ammunition to shoot. And then it just instantly clicked. Like, how the heck did you get the ammunition here? And through security. Yeah.

Man, and SeaTac pulled all three of my bags. Like you watch that little flipper and you're like, oh, number one goes. Number two goes because these podcast mics we're talking on right now always, he thought they were suppressors. Evidently, you should keep your thumb release since it can be considered brass knuckles in a separate. So I got, almost got my thumb release taken. Almost got my podcast mics taken because they thought those looked like silencer cans.

And then thankfully the one guy didn't even open the bag with the shotgun shells in them. Um,

Gosh dang, thankfully I don't have those shotguns. I'm going to leave them here in Kansas. I'm going to donate them to turkey camp. But yeah, that was not what's in my vest, but I had to just let everybody know that I snuck some shotgun shells through TSA without any intention of doing so. It can happen. I don't even know what they would have did to me. Like it's not a weapon, but I probably would have gotten in trouble. They would have took you to the back room and you would have got the special pat down. Oh, you know, I'm glad I didn't.

O'Reilly auto parts are in the business of keeping your car on the road. I love O'Reilly. In fact, the other day, I'm not kidding you. The other day I went into an O'Reilly auto parts looking for a part. I needed a different thing that wasn't really in there. You know, only like tangentially related to what they carry.

They did not have it, and the dude told me specifically where I would go down the road to find it is how nice they are. They offer friendly, helpful service and the parts knowledge you need for all your maintenance and repairs. Thousands of parts and accessories in stock, in-store, or online, so you never have to worry if you're in a jam.

They'll test your battery for free. If you need your windshield wipers replaced, a brake light fixed, or quick service, they'll help you find the right part or point you to a local repair shop for help. Whether you're a car aficionado or an auto novice, you'll find the employees at O'Reilly Auto Parts are knowledgeable, helpful, best of all, friendly. These guys are your one-stop shop for all things auto, do-it-yourself,

You can find what you need in-store or online. Stop by O'Reilly Auto Parts today or visit them at OReillyAuto.com slash MeatEater. That's OReillyAuto.com slash MeatEater. We've all seen plenty of gadgets and fads come and go, but here's one product that stood the test of time. Seafoam Motor Treatment. Lots of hunters and anglers know that seafoam helps engines run better and last longer.

It's really simple. When you pour it in your gas tank, sea foam cleans harmful fuel deposits that cause engine problems. I'm talking common stuff like hard starts, rough engine performance, or lost fuel economy. Sea foam is an easy way to prevent or overcome these problems. Just pour a can in your gas tank and let it clean your fuel system. You probably know someone who has used a can of sea foam to get their truck or boat going again. People everywhere rely on sea foam to keep their trucks, boats, and small engines running the way that they should the entire season.

Help your engine run better and last longer. Pick up a can of Seafoam today at your local auto parts store or visit seafoamworks.com to learn more.

This is Brent Reeves from This Country Life. What makes South Dakota the greatest for pheasant hunting? With over 1.2 million pheasants harvested last year, South Dakota boasts the highest population of pheasants in the nation. In fact, you'd have to add up the total harvest from neighboring states just to get that many birds.

There's also millions of wide open acres chock full of different landscapes, meaning the hunt in one county is often completely different from just a few counties over. But what really makes South Dakota the greatest goes way beyond just hunting a colorful bird. It's the pursuit of something more like the camaraderie that awaits all kinds of hunters from all walks of life and partaking in South Dakota tradition over 100 years in the making.

It's about taking the greatest shots and watching your dog work the greatest fields in the greatest lands, carrying on the greatest heritage and making the greatest memories. So what are you waiting for? From the rush of the flush to the stories at the end of the day, experience a thrill like no other. Learn how at huntthegreatest.com. So back to what's in my vest. I do run a vest.

My left pocket has a nice little striker and pot. I usually keep two pots there with three strikers. I've got a waterproof striker. I've got just our standard diamond wood peg with the maple top. And then I've got a one-piece reverse taper striker that Steve Morgenstern worked with us on. I think we're all sold out. We sold out of them really, really quick. So I've got those three strikers. And it's just weird, you know, with the certain times...

whatever turkey call I think sounds the best. The turkeys won't answer you. Switch strikers, switch calls, make it higher pitch, lower pitch, more rasp, cleaner, and all of a sudden they hammer. So I like to have between those two calls and three strikers gives me the ability to tell like six different birds on my right. Um, hip belt. I carry my box call. Um, I'm testing a new box call for 25 right now. Um, sounds, sounds really, really good. Uh, moving to the, the apex system has a dropdown seat that folds. So it, when you're

When you're walking around and it's not dragging around slapping you, it buckles up. I've got a little bit of a hydration pack on my back between, and I keep a water or my extra coat there. And then on the front on the chest rig, I've got, and I'm probably gonna get the name of the pocket wrong. I believe it's an E2 or an E1 pocket on the front of the chest rig. So it gives me a lot of expansion. In the main pocket, I typically keep my alcohol, my binoculars and my ammo.

Um, and the front one, I'll keep my locators call locator calls. I've also got the triple locator laminate and I've got a crow call. And I also keep all of my diaphragms, um, in that front pocket. I don't carry a loppers, even though all these guys do. And sometimes I wish I had some, I usually, I'm the guy that bends a stick in half and then does like 17 twirls and try to like get the branch to break off. And that's how I usually create my shooting lanes. Um, but sometimes I really wish I had some loppers.

Randy has a really nice pair. They're like ratcheting, right? So even if you have to cut a big, big, uh, you know, branch out of the way with the small pair of pliers, you can just get a little leverage. It locks and it slowly just works your way through them. Um, probably need to get that, uh, not my best, but something we carry here in Kansas, we don't carry in Washington due to the terrain is these low, very low sitting seats. Um, man,

folding chairs. Yeah. Just little folding chairs that are four inches off the ground, um, makes these long morning sits a lot more comfortable, um, a lot easier to sleep in than when you're sitting against the tree, um, on the ground. Um, and it, they're almost a little too high, even though they're four inches to get your knee, but usually we can put a hand under your gun or on your knee and get like the right elevation to shoot out, um, really makes your sits sits longer. And then, um,

Not in our vest, but around our shoulders is typically always that upright hand decoy. We're packing into all of our sets and then we'll decide when we get there if it's the right setup or if things are happening too quick or the brush is too tall, what we're going to do there.

So that's really, you know, I carried an eight by 32 pair of loop, loophole BX fours. Yeah, just pretty simple system. And then I probably got 20 or 30 different diaphragms that I carry around just because I, I've got them. And, you know, if I'm trying to, you know, emulate a tree Yelp or something real light, I might switch compared to a call that I want to cut down into, you know, try to locate a bird with. So I just, I've got a handful of

of, uh, diaphragms and that pretty much rounds out, uh, everything that I carry pretty, pretty simple. Um, you know, sometimes a Washington, bigger Canyon country, I'll, I'll grab a tube call, um, just so I can, you know, cut really loud and locate birds. Yeah. Those, um, I'll, I have one of those folding chairs too.

And they're a lifesaver here. So you get you off the ground. I think with that, you have a little maybe less ticks on you or maybe it takes them longer to get on you. But also just the comfort level because I feel like here in Kansas, we do a lot more sitting and being patient and being comfortable while you're sitting and being patient is paramount because if you're not comfortable, you're moving around and pretty soon Tom comes in and they spot you moving around or whatever. So those things are

You gotta have them. They're, they're really nice. But, but what in Idaho or, or let's say you're in Washington, um, you're putting on a lot more miles in a day, um, chasing turkeys. They're kind of a pain in the butt to carry. So, yeah, they're, they're not fun. And, uh,

I feel like, I mean, we could get into some long call-ins. We have to sit for a long time. I'll just make it do. But, you know, the butt pad, the one-inch foam or one-and-a-half-inch foam, three inches of foam, whatever your vest has, like that typically will be good enough to get you through a sit. Yeah. And by the way, I want to thank you for getting me one of those cool Apex belt systems. You're welcome. From FHF. And that was sarcasm because I don't have one. Oh. Thanks a lot, Jason. Well, you just, I didn't know you wanted one. Well, yeah. I didn't. I mean...

if I would have known, I could have tried. Okay. All right. Well, now I know. Now you know. Yeah. I know. So. I was the guinea pig last year. I think me and Rinella were the first two to run around. Yeah. You've got a prototype. Yeah. Yeah. I probably should have just reached out and said, hey, can I get one of those? Yeah. So I can be cool like Jason. Yeah. Yeah. Ultimate turkey hunter. Do you feel like the Batman of the turkey woods when you wear that, like a superhero? It looks like a utility belt. Oh yeah. It is. It's, I could, I have so much more stuff I can add to that. Yeah. Just like,

Build on it. Put a couple more box calls on the back. I got all kinds of room. Wow. It's amazing. But I don't like Vest. I struggle with it because growing up, turkey Vests were the cool thing, right? It's like if you're basketball, back when Air Jordans were cool, it's like, oh, to be a turkey hunter, that's the thing. I want a Vest because you got to look the part. It's the...

Just the quintessential. Yeah. The quintessential Turkey Hunter has a vest. He can keep, you know, his decoys, his old foam decoys were in the back pocket and, you know, this and that. And the drop down seat that hits you in the back of the knees, like that's what you wanted. And man, it would be tough to go back to a vest after having a more lightweight belt system with just some shoulder straps.

um, the chest rig, like I'm not, I don't feel like I'm stuck inside of a vest and doesn't add any warmth necessarily. Um, it's a real nice system. That's why I don't wear a vest is because I just get so overheated a lot of times. Like this week's been good. It hasn't been very hot. Um, quite a bit of wind. It's been fairly cooler temperatures, but man, when it, when we've been here in may and it's, it's humid and pretty warm out,

Oh, fewer of the clothes, the better, man. You just, you get pretty sweaty and a vest would just add to that. But I know a lot of people love them. So yeah, it's a, you know, the, the, the, the Apex system. I'm, I'm not, I wasn't even coming into this podcast trying to endorse it, but it is an, it is a nice system. Right. Made in the USA by my good buddy, Paul Lewis, great designer. He makes every single one of them, doesn't he? No, no, he doesn't. He gets them scratched out and then we, we, I think he passes those on.

He'd probably like it if I told everybody that he built all of them. Yeah. Yeah.

So we're just going to run through a few scenarios to kind of round out this, uh, you know, the podcast is a lot of people. When I was, when I was learning how to Turkey hunt and reading all kinds of articles and watching this video nowadays, there's, there's so much YouTube, but I feel like a lot of new Turkey hunters, um, or people that are just getting into it, or maybe haven't had a lot of success. They hear a sound in the woods and they don't know what to do. Like, what am I going to do now? I just heard this. So I'm going to run through some scenarios and just kind of get your take or what you would do. Um,

Um, I may tell you why I agree with you or disagree with you and then we'll, we'll go from there. So we're going to call this the lost hen scenario. Um, we're walking through some of Randy's woods back here. Let's say it's 200 acres of woods, but we got a little trail built through it. Um, you hear a distant Yelp of a lost hen, um, echoing through the trees. What are you going to do?

I'm probably going to start looking for cover immediately. Like, okay, where is this hen at? And where am I at in relation to it? Do I need to hide right now? Is it far enough away where I'm not going to get spotted? But anytime I hear any kind of turkey vocalization, that's the first thing on my mind. Am I exposed? Can I get down? Can I get a shooting lane and be ready? That's going to be my first thing. Because you're going to shoot a hen?

No, but there may be a gobbler with her. So I was going to get to that. So you're assuming, even though you just heard a lost hen, it's end April, you're going to assume there's a gobbler there.

I'm going to assume it. I feel like it'd be just like September and elk. Like if I hear cows calling in late September, I'm like, ooh, there could be a bull. No, I wasn't saying you're wrong. I was going to agree with that. I was just bringing that up. Instantly, I'm going to assume almost any turkey noise I hear, there's going to be something I want to shoot with it, a long beard. Whether that's the case or not, we'll find out later. But yeah, number one, assume there's a... The next thing to add to what...

I was going to say, and also like, then I'm going to vocalize back. I'm going to call back to it, you know, depending on how far away it is. If it's not very, if it's pretty close, I'm going to be pretty quiet and make some really quiet yelps and very conservative. Like maybe you do a three or four yelps and then just let it sit. Like less is more in times like that, in my opinion. Yep. And so one thing I might do a little different than, than vocalize back. I, if I hear a hen yelping, I might just sit there for two or three minutes.

you know, depending on how far, if I've got to sit down, I'll sit down, but I might just listen. Like what's going on? Is there, you know, is, is she going to continue to talk? Was it just a, did she just kind of, you know, make a sporadic sound and then she's back to feed and content. Like why did she, you know, maybe listen for distant gobbles, um, depending on how far out she is. And then like you, I may yelp back. And one thing I like to do similar to elk calling is we try to match your intensity. You know, if a hen's out there just being loud mouth and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I may kind of go in with that intensity, but if she's just milling around, the last thing I want to do is try to tick off that hand and get her to go the other way. So I'll match intensity and typically very soft calling, just loud. I always just want to assume that I'm calling just loud enough she can just barely hear me or just aggressively enough that she can just barely hear me. See if we get a response. If that doesn't work out, we don't get a response. A lot of times move in that direction a little bit.

try again, get a little closer. And then we all know, or if you've been turkey hunting long enough, you know that if it is the dense forest, kind of like we set up, you're probably not going to go and sneak in on those birds. So the last thing I want to do is like push too hard. You know, maybe this is where elk and turkey differ a little bit. I'll be a little more patient turkey hunting and be a little less aggressive and not walk in. I'll maybe skirt or just make a mental note on where that hen was at, what time of day. If I don't hear a gobbler, you know, kind of continue on.

And I might not even call. I might not do a turkey call. I may sit down, get concealed. I may blow a locator call like a hawk screamer or a crow call. Now we're checking to see if there's a gobbler there. It's going to be a sound that's non-threatening to the hen. And if there's a tom there, he may sound off.

Um, lately here in the middle of the day and stuff, it seems like, and we can't buy a gobble no matter what we're slamming the car door, you name it. I mean, you can't get one to gobble, but that's a good way to actually see if there could possibly be a Tom with her. Yeah.

Great answers. Um, you know, there's, there's no right or wrong answer here. We're just kind of telling you what we would do. Um, next scenario is the, the, the Tom in the field. Um, you're hunting in an open field or you pop up to an open field. We can envision like Randy's top today. You know, it's a, a long, narrow, um, flat top that kind of maybe drops into two Oak bottoms on both sides. You pop up at one end and you see a Tom strutting out there at 250 yards away. What's your move?

I'm going to belly crawl out there and grab him. No, no, I'm probably going to watch him for a little bit and see what, what's on his mind. Where's he going? Is he coming my way? Is he going the other way? Of course I don't want to get seen, but I'm going to kind of, I'm going to kind of observe and see what he's doing before I do any calling to him. I like it. So I know when me and Chris went through this, we talked a little bit of,

Knowing that you have the ability to cut that distance from 250 yards

to potentially 100 yards, would you rather, let's say you knew without getting picked off, you could crawl up there and put your decoy out and he would eventually see it. Would you try to call that bird from 250 yards away with your decoy or would you drop off the edge into the oaks and try to pop up at 100 yards? Which one would you take if you can only take one? I know Chris said he would always try to cut that distance down as much as possible. He'd much prefer 100 yards and no decoy, but being really close to that bird than 250 yards away.

and a decoy. And so that was one, I know I wanted to add that in that, you know, if you can move, same thing we talk about on elk all the time, like you, your chances of calling something in exponentially go up if you can cut that distance.

if they have to move their feet as little as possible to get to you, your, your chance is going to go way up in my opinion. Oh yeah, absolutely. I agree with that a hundred percent. Anytime you can get within, you know, their zone or whatever you want to call it. You know, like you say, 250 yards, you just may be background noise at that point. It's like, eh, I'm content over here strutting around and doing my thing. If, if, if I'm gobbling or whatever, I want you to come over to me. But yeah,

If you get over there and you're half that distance or even closer and you, you know, pop out a little, a little closer than that and can do a little bit of calling. Um, you're definitely going to be, get more of his attention, I think. Yeah. That's, that's like I say, that's, that's what we would do. Not saying it's the right or wrong, but that's how we're probably going to run. And we're going to probably run that system over and over and over until it works out. Um, so now we're going to picture ourselves in a wooded area and you hear an echoing thunderous gobble off in the distance. Yeah.

Oh man, it's tough because sometimes we've, we ran into that this morning a little bit. It's like, okay, which way is it? Is it that way? I mean, trying to locate those gobbles in the woods is tough. So if it's off in the distance a while, I'm going to, I'm going to get super quiet and listen. You know, I may just listen for a few minutes on my own without making any kind of noise. If it was only one gobble, then after listening for a while, I'm going to, I'm going to do some calling, whether it's a locator call or a hen call.

um, I'm going to do some calling to see if I can hear it again. Like, I really want to pinpoint this thing and determine how far away it is in the position of it. Am I going to have to get real crafty and like make a big circle because there's a field in between him and I, and I'll get exposed or, or is it good as can I, can I quietly and quickly approach him without getting, getting seen? Um,

Those would be the first things through my head. Yeah, and the first thing we always do when we hear Gobble, which you touched on, we all got to try to figure out in our heads where we think he is, right? That's a...

every time we hear a gobble like oh he's up on he's up in the corner of that you know lot or he's he's down in that bottom where these two cricks intersect you know we're always trying to figure out where he is exactly and sometimes that may take the second gobble um you know we've all all listened to turkeys gobble we know they haven't moved but just by them turning 180 gobbling that in gobbling away you're like that bird's in two different spots by half a mile you know sometimes

We really need to pinpoint them. And then, yeah, the same is just listen for a little bit. Um, are there hens with them? Are there other, a lot of times are there other birds? Um, you know, and then once we can figure that out, typically, unless they're coming in our direction by their, their gobbles, we'll, we'll, we'll try to cut that distance as, you know, as a terrain and vegetation allows and try to get as close as we can to them. Um,

Um, and then typically, you know, if you had to pick a call to use, we're probably going to sit down and, you know, start with just your, your typical yelping your, you know, see if we get a response. Is the end of that or not? Maybe wait five to 10 minutes. Does he answer?

And then figure out if we... A few clucks and some more aggressive yelps. Maybe even throw some cutting in later on down the road. Just see if he's into that. If not, we may need to just sit tight. You've now made some hen calls. And a lot of times, I think we relate it more to elk where we'll get up and try to push the conversation and push the game. A lot of times, these turkeys are just...

They're coming in slow. They're working at their own pace. So just be patient. I think I'm 100 times more patient turkey hunter than I am an elk hunter. I feel like I've seen it enough where sometimes it just takes a little time to materialize and for things to happen like you want them. But yeah, I'm going to try to get as close as I can to that gobbling bird without being seen. Be as conservative as I can and try to get in tight. Another thing, by sitting there and listening for a little while,

I feel like this happens a lot. Like you hear one gobble and it's in the distance and you sit down and you start being quiet and you just listen and then you start calling. And if you let it, give it a little bit of time, like five, 10 minutes. Sometimes you hear a gobbler like really close to you.

um, that you might not have heard before. It's like, Oh, I heard a gobble. And then you just take off towards it. Um, sometimes you'll walk away from one. Yeah. That was coming. That would have been calling right, right there. Sometimes the ones that are close to you, sometimes it just takes them a little longer to, to vocalize. Sometimes not. Sometimes they just hammer right away. But, uh, I feel like giving it a little, I feel like everything with turkey hunting, if you can give it a little more time, like I am the least patient person on planet earth and, uh,

Turkey hunting is teaching me patience. Um, and I'm, I'm exercising that a lot. Like just take your time. Just don't get in a rush, you know, um, just give it a little time and, and, and by waiting an extra 10, 10 minutes or something, you're, you're not going to miss out on anything. Yep.

Okay, next scenario we'll call the morning hen. We roost birds a lot or we know where these Easterns like to roost, so we'll get in tight. You're set up near that roosting area and you start to hear the soft clucks and purrs of a hen in a nearby tree followed by longbeards or dominant bird gobbles. What's your play?

I'm going to start doing my tree yelping and soft clucks and stuff as well. I want to let that Tom know there's other choices besides the girls he already knew about. So that's how I'm going to start things. I'm just going to... I'm not going to overdo it though. I think you can over call, especially then, but I just want to like...

enter the conversation a little bit and just say, hey, I'm over here too. And then just kind of leave it at that and kind of... And unless that hen, she starts like firing up a lot, then I'm probably going to fire up a little bit more. But I don't want to just be there and be quiet. Unless I think...

If I know their path's going to just lead them right towards me, I may just say nothing. It just kind of depends on the turkeys. If you've been playing with them a little bit and you know they're going to fly down to this little narrow field and they're going to walk right by it because they like to go feed in a certain spot.

then I may just sit there and be quiet because then if I start calling that hen, when she gets out of the tree, she may lay that gobbler away from me. Yep. Now I like to do, you know, that similar to what you said, I want to, I want to hen you or, you know, tree yelp, uh, softly, um, some real light, subtle, you know, clucks, um, you know, purrs in the trees, um,

And what I'm looking for is those toms to acknowledge me, right? We've all been there, whether the toms are doing their own thing or gobbling their own versus when they hit your call, right, on a tree, you know, your second or third note. You're like, all right, they know I'm here. That's all. I've established that I'm a turkey over here. And then as it gets more daylight, I start to get personally very worried that they're looking for me, right? Why the heck is he already...

Is that hen already on the ground? What's going on? Why is this happening? And I don't want to get picked off, especially if you, like, two days ago when we set up next to those jakes and the one longbeard was down the way. Those things were in a tree 60, 70 yards away from me, and thankfully we had really good cover, but I was worried that they're going to try to pinpoint us and know that we're on the ground already without a fly down and all of that. And one thing, it depends on our cover. Sometimes I'll omit the fly down. I'll just...

I'll show up as a hen that's already on the ground, you know, once, once I can hear them all fly down. Um, but if the cover allows it and I can do it in a way where it's realistic and I know I'm not going to get picked off, um, we'll do a fly down cackle and kind of let that bird know that we're the first hen on the ground, you know, maybe grab his attention, um, to that location, especially when you're trying to fight, you know, the real thing, um, in, in the adjacent trees.

But yeah, that's the same thing. You know, soft, soft clucks and purrs, you know, soft, soft tree alps. Just make sure that those birds identify that, that we're there. And in the last, the last scenario is the silent woods. There's turkey sign, fresh turkey sign. There's birds around your hunting area, but the woods are silence, you know, silent. What's your approach? Well, I'm going to go where I think.

I think they're going to be hanging out. Maybe not where that right now, let's say, you know, you have broken meadows and woods or fields and woods. If they're, they're quiet and they're not out in the fields, they're probably in those woods. Maybe they're down in a draw or something. But I, I know they want to come up in the field at some point, sometimes mid morning, they're going to want to go come up and strut in those areas. You know, maybe the, the hens are going to want to come up there and feed, but,

If everything's quiet, I'm not hearing anything. I'm just going to kind of be practice that patience again. I'm going to set up, I'm going to do some calling. I'll put a decoy out. I'm going to start calling, you know, and real sparingly at first, and then maybe get a little bit louder, a little bit louder. And then I'm just going to turn it off and let it set. And I may sit for an hour or two. Just depends. And sometimes it, it just takes that time. Like,

They're eventually going to come there or, you know, they're preoccupied like we talked before, you know, with those hens, but that doesn't work out for them or they're ready to do something different. I heard hens over, I'm going to go check it out. So I think, you know, that it's almost like cold calling for elk. You know, you know there's elk in the area, you know there's turkeys in the area. We're going to do a bunch of calling and then we're just going to shut up and just kind of see how it unfolds. Yep.

I think Will Primos was, he used to call it the MRI, right? The most recent information you've got. And so in the morning, if we, let's say, you know, we've been fortunate here. Randy does a great job with his properties. Usually you can show up on the property, even if it's not where you wanted to set up to start the day, you'll hear birds, right?

And if you don't hear birds and you know where the birds were at the day before, where they like to frequent. So that's like the best information or, Hey, there was a Tom on this field edge on a certain date. So you're, you're trying to look at like, do I have number one, do I have live birds that are gobbling today? Do I think they're Jake's or, or, or long beards? And that, you know, and if I don't have any birds, then where have they been? Um, and then if that's not the case, like I like to get as high as I can or on a ridge or get some elevation to my, you know, on my side, um,

And if that doesn't work, just like we were talking this morning, we were able to actually, you know, hear better from down low just because the angle we could hear up on the tops versus if we got, as we got to the edge of those hills, we couldn't hear as good. So I want to, I want to be able to listen and then I will run those ridges. And this time of year, all kind of alternate all, you know, why we don't think there's trickies there. I'm kind of cranking through my woodpecker, you know, hawk scream, owl scream. I'm cranking on the box call. I'm letting you loud Yelps.

And I'm, I'm being pretty pointed here because I will, I will assume that if I don't hear a bird in the, you know, right now we've got it, we've got it coined from about daylight to eight 30. I'm going to assume that there's not a bird there. Cause I should be able to get a gobble of some sort. And so I'm going to run, you know, run the ridges or walk just like we did this morning after we had kind of a blown setup, we ended up walking around trying to get some

elevation, trying to hear birds and then reset up. And, and so I think you just got to cover ground. You got to kind of let your calls, your locators, um, you know, your, your box calls. And even if you're not using the call, just let your ears do the walking, right? Just, you got to find some, some recent information. You've got to find a gobbler on its feet. Um, and so I just cover ground, try to get, uh, you know, an answer or response, listen, um, and then, and then go from there. So, um,

Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's tough. Sometimes you'll find yourself in those situations where, you know, birds just aren't talking, nothing's answering. You just got to cover ground, see if you can find them. And if not, you know, call the morning hunt and come back out later. Or if you're patient, if you're more patient than me and go sit against the tree and, uh, set a decoy out or do some, you know, um, sporadic calling and go from there. So the great thing about either one of those tactics is they work.

They both work really well. And depending on the size of property you got to hunt, you know, maybe you don't have a large tract, you know, that being patient and just sitting and, you know, letting things unfold is the way to go. If you've got some places you can stretch your legs out and put on some boot leather miles, then that's a great way to do it too. Because just like you say, you know, they might be quiet right here, but you walk over

If it's broken country, you know, you may walk over 300 yards from where you're at and you can hear down into a little draw or a little holler or something. And then all of a sudden, bam, you can hear the turkeys. They're right over here. They've been calling the whole time. You just couldn't hear them because of your location. Yeah.

Well, that about wraps it up. We're almost an hour into this. We got to go get ready to go back out turkey hunting. So I really appreciate the one and only Dirk Durham, turkey hunting expert, expert caller, the knower of all things wild turkeys. Wow. Wow. That was probably the nicest thing you ever said about me and the most fictitious. Appreciate having you here. We're having a blast in Kansas. Thanks for listening to Cutting Distance and good luck to all of you out there chasing turkeys. Thanks everybody.

Hey, we're going to take a little break here and talk about interstate batteries. Now, if you're like me, enjoying the great outdoors, you need gear that is as reliable as it gets. That's why I power my adventures with interstate batteries. I use interstate batteries in my boats. I use interstate batteries in my camper. Great for your truck, too. From Alaska to Montana, they're outrageously dependable.

Battery is essential. With over 150,000 dealer locations, finding one is easy. For all your vehicles, land or sea, choose Interstate. Head to InterstateBatteries.com and find your power today. You ever get that feeling, the walls closing in, the concrete jungle suffocating you? You crave some wide open spaces, the chance to connect with nature, maybe in a spot all your own. Well, head over to Land.com.

They've got ranches, forests, mountains, streams, you name it. Search by acreage. You can search by location. You can search by the kind of hunting and fishing you're dreaming of. Land.com. It is where the adventure begins.