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cover of episode Ep. 85: Whitetail Strategy and Tactics with Brock Shelton

Ep. 85: Whitetail Strategy and Tactics with Brock Shelton

2024/5/16
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Cutting The Distance

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Jason: 本期节目邀请到Brock Shelton讨论白尾鹿狩猎策略与技巧,包括狩猎日历、狩猎点的选择、应对不同时期发情期的策略以及气味控制等方面。 Brock Shelton: 气味控制至关重要,需要根据风向和热气流选择狩猎时间和地点,并采取气味控制措施,包括使用气味控制产品、选择合适的狩猎路径等。狩猎路径的选择至关重要,需要确保能够不被鹿发现地到达狩猎点,甚至需要额外购买土地以改善狩猎路径。通常情况下,我会选择在农场周边狩猎,而农场内部的一些狩猎点则会等到发情期再使用。与邻居协调狩猎策略,对提高狩猎成功率至关重要,需要和邻居就鹿群管理达成一致。判断鹿的年龄和体型大小,需要综合考虑多个因素,包括胸部、腹部、脸部特征等,并结合相机拍摄的照片进行判断。虽然曾亲眼目睹过用人类尿液制造假刮痕吸引鹿的有效性,但我个人通常不会使用这种方法,更倾向于尽量减少自身气味的影响。使用粗绳制作刮痕可以更好地留住气味,吸引鹿前来。在一月份到三月份,要确保鹿群有足够的粮食过冬,并观察鹿群的活动路线,为秋季狩猎做准备。在夏季中期,我会准备狩猎点,修剪树枝等,以便秋季狩猎时能够快速安装狩猎装置。我很少在鹿群的栖息地寻找鹿角,通常会在农作物田地及其周边区域寻找。通常到八月份中旬,鹿的体型基本发育完全,可以开始观察鹿群的活动情况。选择狩猎时间需要考虑风向、温度和鹿群的活动情况,最佳时机是冷锋过境时,且风向有利。秋季的第一次冷锋过境通常会带来大量的鹿群活动,是狩猎的最佳时机。冷锋过境后的第一天,鹿群的活动最为剧烈。发情期是狩猎的好时机,因为鹿群会四处活动,增加了狩猎机会。发情期结束后,鹿群会回到食物来源地觅食,此时是狩猎的好时机。补充喂养对鹿群整体健康有益,但也会导致鹿群数量在不同农场之间出现差异。如果农作物不是理想的狩猎食物来源,那么精心准备的狩猎点就显得尤为重要。我的狩猎装备比较轻便,箭支和箭头的重量约为380-385格令,我更注重射箭的精准度。鹿的叫声的使用取决于具体情况,如果目标是特定鹿,则保持安静;如果没有特定目标,则可以使用鹿叫声来吸引鹿。白尾鹿狩猎中最大的错误是在不利条件下进行狩猎,例如风向不利或时机不对,这可能会适得其反。即使是成熟的鹿,也可能会因为认为风向对自己有利而犯错,这时是狩猎的良机。 Brock Shelton: 细节决定成败,需要对各种因素进行综合考量,并根据实际情况灵活调整策略。

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Brock emphasizes the importance of playing the wind, using scent control products, and minimizing human scent to avoid alerting deer.

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Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. I'm still in Kansas at turkey camp, but I wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to talk with my buddy Brock Shelton about white-tailed deer hunting. He's one of those guys who may not have social media, he may not talk a whole lot about his success, but his wall of antlers tells me everything I need to know about if he knows what he's doing out in the woods. He's got a pile of big bucks to his name, and some of those are nearing that magical 200-inch mark, so I know he knows what he's doing out there.

And to boot, he may just be the nicest guy ever. I've had the fortune of coming to Kansas for four years now, and Brock's always running dinner. He's got dinner on the smoker, running us here, running us there. So it makes me rethink how good of a guy I am being here in Kansas.

I've had the chance to share a blind with him a little bit this week. We've talked a lot of hunting. We've talked about the history of the area and kind of the history of hunting in this area. And then we talked a lot about how he manages the properties for deer and turkey, amongst a bunch of other things. So I'm excited to get him here on the podcast. Welcome to the show, Brock.

Hey, thanks for having me, Jason. Yeah, yeah. You were here from, I believe, the first time we showed up in Kansas. You were involved. We hunted with you a couple times then, and since we've been coming back, deer hunting. So yeah, I think you had killed that... When did you kill that big buck? I'm not even going to guess. I don't know.

I killed my largest one to date back in 2015. So it's been a few years back. Gotcha. And that buck, I said nearing 200. I thought he might have made it. How big did that get? He was like 199 and change. So he was close. It's a lot.

Real close. Well, I'm going to, I'm going to round up cause that's the kind of guy I am. So you have a 200 inch buck. Thank you. No, it was a, it was a giant buck. Um, I think that first year I got to go over to Brock's place and check out, you know, his, his shop and those bucks and some of the, the big whitetails he had killed and, uh, it very impressive. And, um,

Like I say, he's a, he's a quiet guy. Um, doesn't talk a whole lot about, you know, this or that, or claim that he, he knows all of this, but just talking with him, you get the, you get the idea that, um, he knows a whole lot about whitetail hunting and, uh, pretty dang good at it. So, um,

Like all episodes of Cutting the Distance, today I'm going to jump into listener question and answer, but we got a special version of the listener question and answer today. I just got my questions from Dirk Durham. He had three that he wanted me to throw at Brock, so we're going to do it that way. But if you've got any questions of your own for me or my guests,

feel free to email them to us at ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com or send us a message on social media and we'll do our best to get them included here. So I'm going to throw three questions here at you, Brock, that Dirk had.

what is your opinion on scent control? You know, coming from the West, we're, we're more of a get the wind at your face and, and you're good to go. You know, we always use the old, uh, the saying like, Oh, a grandpa used to smoke and he's killed more elk or more deer than anybody we know. But we come out here, you know, come out to the Midwest. And, uh, I, I think it's, you know, you're sitting in one spot, you're sitting in the stand. Um,

it becomes maybe more critical at this point. Um, sure. And so what's your opinion on that? Yeah. It's always good to hear, you know, some of you guys come in from other States and, and,

and say how the wind's always blowing here, but having lived here my whole life, it's just another day. So, um, we do play the wind. I always try to look at, um, multiple weather stations or reports and try to play the wind and look at the wind. And I'll, I run a lot of cameras and I try to look at deer activity and,

Um, I won't go into a stand until the weather's in my favor. I don't want to go in there and, and let other deer know that I'm there. And also the one that I'm hunting because you can, you can mess up a stand just going in wrong one time. So, um, it's very, very key to me. And, um, you also play your thermals. Uh, look, look, look at the thermals in the mornings. Of course, everything's rising. It helps you get away with a little bit more if there's little to no wind. Um,

But yeah, I also do scent control as far as the soaps, the showers, the laundering. And I don't dry anything in a dryer or anything with those earth scent sheets. I always put everything outside, dry them, and then I put them in like some carbon scent lock proof bags. So on scent control...

on your wind are your approaches to your stands even you know we hear a lot of talk about that like you know you're you're hunting your stand but then does your approach potentially you know is half your property now set it up are you thinking you know how does that how does that approach affect how I'm going to get to that stand and where I think the deer at that time absolutely like access is key to me I've actually acquired a few acres that adjoined our farm that allowed me more access to

to my farm. I can go in and out undetected. And I was able to do that before, but having the ability to purchase that just locked that up and allowed me to access to some of my better stands and knowing that I'll always have that route now. And I'm going to be getting ahead of myself a little bit, but I want to keep kind of going on that. Do you typically hunt the perimeter of your farm or do you have some stands or some ground blinds on the interior? I typically hunt the way my farm

my farm or our farm is laid out, I typically hunt perimeters. And some of my perimeters that are in different areas of my farm, I will wait until the rut to hunt those stands because just of where they are located. If I'm going in there, I'm going to spend all day in there. I'm not going to go in and send it all up and walk through everything for two hours of a set. So that's just...

my game plan and it's worked for me in the past so I try to stick to it. We'll get into it later. Randy's one of your neighbors. We've had Randy on the podcast. We talk about the property we get to hunt here. We'll talk a little bit about having good neighbors and whether you don't want to mess up his hunt or where maybe his deer are coming from. I know you guys probably coordinate there. Knowing your neighbor can be a big... Because you're not fighting with your neighbor. I don't care if I blow into him. I want the deer. We'll get into that here in a little bit too. I've always said...

a guy's hunting is only as good as his neighbors because if your neighbor doesn't have the same game plan as you or, or, you know, management as you say on deer age, um, you'll, you'll be letting four-year-old deer pass all day and your neighbor's shooting them. So it's, it's really good to have good neighbors like Randy, Rodney around us. My brother bought a farm across the road too. And everybody on the same game plan really improves everyone's hunting. Yep. Yep.

Yeah, I know Randy has an outfitter adjacent to one of his properties, and that always provides a little bit of head-butting there or management difficulties because you're trying to grow big deer, hit an age class, but they're shooting any three-and-a-half-year-old that ends up on the other side of the fence, which makes it a little tricky. Yeah, it adds for some...

talks in the evenings around at camp, you know, so. Yep. All right. The second question from Dirk, um, how do you feel judge deer, which has become important to me. And I've learned a lot, you know, since I've been coming here because Randy, you

You know, as we just talked, you guys are trying to manage for five and a half year old deer primarily, but four and a half year old deer, if the situation's right or they're there, or maybe they want them out of the group, you know, out of the herd. But how are you when you're in the stand or when you're just scouting your property and looking at cams, like what's your go-to for field judging deer for age? And, you know, even I guess antler size as well.

Yeah, you can tell a lot by deer. I mean, a lot by the size. Like, you'll look at, say, the brisket in front. If you've got a big brisket on a deer, um...

It's kind of deceiving too with the belly on deers because we do do some supplemental feeding here. And so, you know, everybody around is feeding good. So you want to look at the whole picture, not just look at one and say, oh man, look how much mass he has. Well, it could be a good four-year-old that's

could be a giant if you let him let him go another year or two and um so cameras have helped a lot uh there's there's been many deer that i've had pictures of and i was like i need to go see that deer in person because a camera will give you a good idea but seeing them in person you can really judge them on the hoof better and get your binoculars up even if they're 25 30 yards away look at them close i mean because once once you pull the trigger on that release you

There's no bringing it back. He's done. Yeah. And so are you looking at like the back line? Are you looking at belly line? Are you trying to look, do you use like the face? You know, sometimes you'll start to look for Roman nose or like just an old deer face. Like, you know, some...

One thing that we, I'm throwing a bunch of questions at you here at once. One, the other thing we've talked about, like growing up, you always talk about, oh, look at the mass on that buck. He must be ancient. But we've kind of learned, the more I learn, I'm like, well, that's just genetics at some point or mom's health. So like, are there any other features, face, horns, belly, back? Yeah, you can look at the face. If it's a really old deer, their eyes will be sunken in. They'll be gray faced. It's a little harder to tell. Some are hair on them, you know, but...

you, you can just tell like the deer I shot this past year. I mean, he was ancient. I mean, I had a, I had a better deer underneath me when I shot this old deer that I'm anxious to see. He made it through rifle season. I'm anxious to see what he's going to be, be like this next year. But, um, and that's part of what we do is kind of our community of neighbors here that,

we'll shoot the older mature deer rather than the one that would look better on the wall. Yeah. Yeah. And so that was, I was going to roll that in. So if you see 180 inch buck, but you only think it's a four and a half year old, are you letting it go? Or are you shooting like, he's getting a pass. You're going to let a giant buck. Cause,

I got to hunt my first year white tail here. You guys had a 12 point running around that in the pictures of him and the, you guys sent me a trail cam pick and there's a, I think it's an eight point with him. And the, the eight point is twice the body size of this little 12 body wise. And, um, we got to see him the year after and he grew up and now he's kind of disappeared on you guys. Right. But it was one of those things like that buck probably scored at one point there, 160 inches, but you guys like, no, absolutely not. That could blow up into a monster. You know, you guys were dealing with droughts and, and,

You're like, we just want to get him on one good moisture year and some age. And so you guys are letting bucks that, you know, anybody be happy to shoot walk. And some people will find that hard to believe, but.

It was, it was an easy move when you know, your neighbors are going to do the same thing. It's, it's just the right thing to do to grow bigger deer. Yeah. And that's, it's, it's awesome. And like, I'm still struggling to comprehend it because you guys are willing, like you guys are hunting and you guys love to hunt, but you're also, there's a side to it. That's like trying to grow as big a deer as possible, which makes it pretty unique. Like it's truly about how big a deer can our properties hold versus how big a deer can I shoot always. Yeah. And that's,

Randy, my neighbor, that's one of the things we'll put in food plots and strategize even our farms together to raise the bigger deer. And it's worked out well. I mean, as well as it could be. Yep.

Wow. I'm sure we'll get into more of that on management and the food plots and stuff, um, in our conversation a little later. So the third question from Dirk, um, what is your opinion on mock scrapes with human urine? Um, and, and how does the, what's your opinion on that? Yeah, we kind of laughed about this a little earlier, you know, I've, I've heard of that working before and I've actually seen it firsthand one time. I actually, uh,

was hanging a stand one weekend I think I was in college and came back and was hanging a stand and I had a had a buddy with me that had never really hunted much and I turn around and he's over there relieving himself 10 yards from my new stand I'm hanging I'm like what are you doing you know and I'm like going man I'm gonna have to let this cool off for a while but the wind was right the week later when I came back I think it was probably like the first or second week in November and

And I came back and the woods were just tore up around that. So I'm sure, you know, and I've read magazine articles and everything else where once that, not to get too scientific, ammonia or whatever it is that's coming off of the urine, it comes off of both humans and deer and then puts the aroma out. And it must have worked because it wasn't that torn up a week prior when I hung the stand. So...

But I typically, I don't do that. I'll, I'll, I'll do other methods. I'm, I'm trying to be, uh, as under the radar as I can. I don't try to leave any scent or leave anything behind. And yeah. Um, yeah.

Yeah. And that's, you know, not necessarily as woodsman, but like, yeah, you just, you're being, you're going the extra step. Like you don't want to risk that it will work, but if it doesn't work, you don't want to risk that. Cause you know, Randy, our good buddy, like, you know, oh, you pee out of your stand. No need to get down. No need to bring a bottle. And to me, I'm like, but what if, what if I drank some supplement or, or had some vitamins that like given off scent and, uh,

I just, yeah, I don't want to risk it. Or asparagus the night before. Yeah, it doesn't. I always pack an empty bottle. I have one in my bag just in case. I want to stack the deck in my favor. Yeah. And then to piggyback on that, we noticed around here you guys use some of those big one-inch, inch-and-a-half ropes that your guys' scrapes. Can you, you know, a little bit about that versus, like, using natural licking sticks or, you know, along the field edges?

Yeah. A lot of times we'll put cameras on those rope scrapes and then also have them, you know, within range of your stand. And what that does is you take a rope and you let it air out for a while and it's an inch diameter and then you can put some

some uh scent on it and um then the theory is every buck that comes around will smell that it allows the wind to blow through it and that rope holds holds the scent a little better and we we have seen a lot more uh activity on those scrapes it just it holds better than a regular branch i think um but uh it's just something else to have in your arsenal you know yeah yeah

Yeah, I appreciate you taking those questions from Dirk here. Once again, listeners, if you have a question for me or my guests, feel free to email them to us at ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com or send us a message on social and we'll do our best to get them included here. So now we're going to kind of jump into my discussion I wanted to have with you, Brock. And I'm still relatively new, so I preface this whole thing like I'm

I'd always joked I would hunt whitetail when I turned 70 and couldn't hunt mule deer and elk anymore and walk around. But I got the invite from Randy a couple years ago, and I'm kind of hooked. It's new to me. It's still hunting, but it's a different game. It's a different chess match than we play with mule deer or elk or anything else that I hunt. So pretty new. But I wanted to kind of jump into it. I've got to talk to Randy about whitetail hunting, but haven't necessarily had you on and kind of see what you think about whitetail hunting.

um you know you growing up it's what you see 90 on tv and it's like oh this looks super simple you know it's like the drewies get up in a redneck popped up out in the middle of the field and you can but as the more you learn the more i'm here now for two years hopefully i draw a tag this year and come back for a third year um there's a lot there's a lot involved um you know and you can't oversimplify it like oh a big buck just wants to breed eat and avoid conflict and exposure but there's a lot more to this you got to you know try to get the deer

to be that big to begin with number one number two get them to an age which you guys would talk about management number three and then during hunting season you have a chance to get to them um you know so there's there's a lot to it win sets you know travel corridors scouting all of that so i really kind of wanted to jump in and have a conversation with you but what we're going to start with is more of that calendar

um of a whitetail hunter um or a whitetail property uh manager i guess as well and and what are those major milestones throughout the year so if we kind of just started in in january like what are you doing as as a whitetail hunter you know you you live here randy you know travels back and forth quite a bit but like are you doing anything in january february march

Yeah, those early months, January, February, March, those are the months where I like to make sure that our deer herd has enough food to make it through the harsh weather. That's when I really start putting the minerals out later in those months, but I make sure they have food, whether it be corn or other supplements.

Nobody's hunting them. There's no pressure. I want them to feel safe on my farm. And what that also does, it allows me to then, you know, ease around my property and look for travel routes. By this time, you know, of course, all the vegetation's off. You can see deer trails, you know, everywhere.

long ways away so it's it's nice to take a look at those and and just get a feel for what the deer are doing now because you know you can have an ice storm or something and have limbs come down and it changes travel routes and um it's that's where you can really you know far as taking care of the herd making sure they're being fed good and then um looking to see how they're moving and that just gives you maybe an edge up come come the fall you know so

Gotcha. Are you, are you taking advantage of moving stands this time? You know, are you going to move, you know, I hear a lot of people talk like February, March, April. Yeah, I will, I will get a stand site prepped. I'll, I'll have some limbs cut and do some stuff then. So then when it's time to hang a stand, I'll, I'll usually wait till middle part of the summer, of course, probably when it's the hottest, but, and spray down good. So you won't have ticks crawling all over you and go hang that up. So all I have to do is really

hang my my uh ladder and and my put my lock on on and ready to roll come middle of september so you're prepping those sites more so um and now do you shed hunt your your ground or your bedding areas are you one of those guys just want to stay out of there all the time you know it's it's been since i've shed hunted my bedding area on our place it's probably been

two or three years. I, I usually, we have, uh, quite a few acres of row crop. So I'll, I'll, I'll check out the, the, uh, crop fields and then the surrounding areas around them. But I, I seldom go into the bedding area. Um, but, um,

I know some guys do. I don't think it really, at that time of year, affects it too much. But if I was going to do that, I'd probably wait until I made sure that everything had dropped and before it started greening up. So you're talking late February, early March typically. Just one day in there, one day in there. One or two passes through there and back through, and that way you're not running everything off. Yep.

Yeah. I get a little nervous. Me and Dirk were talking yesterday, you know, we, we kind of tromped, we had some birds gobbling, we started with, and then up top. And I'm like, man, sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't just stay out of here, you know, or not walking through here, but you know, it's a dual purpose farm. You're hunting deer and, and turkeys, but sometimes you're like, are we, are we messing anything up? Or if there's a big buck bedding in here, are we going to mess them up? Um,

And I don't know how much pressure you can put on them here in the middle of April. Do they care by season, or does that register with the big buck? Like, I got bumped here in April. Maybe this isn't as safe as I thought. Yeah, I think in that time of year, to me, it doesn't affect them as much as, say, during the hunting season. I think they have a shorter memory than what a lot of people give them credit for.

Gotcha. Yeah, we had to, the night I shot my bird back there, we had a buck about five yards away from us and you could see he was going to, you know, big bases already and he was about this tall and you're like, I hope that doesn't like mess him up. I'm sure it won't, but you just hope it doesn't like make him feel he's not secure there.

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Um, when, when will you like pick them up or, or, I mean, about what time, you know, is it May, June horn size? You're like, all right, I got them. Or is he going to be in the same area and, um, confirm you still alive? You know, it's, it's funny because, you know, in years past, like the largest deer that I'd shot, I had pictures of him in a counter with him the year before on the total opposite end of the farm, diagonal end of the farm. Um,

I'm a big believer. I'll run cameras as much as I can. I may not in the summer months. I may not go in and check them for two months, but batteries are cheap in the whole scheme of things, even though they've gone up like crazy, like everything else. But

We run some cell cams too, and there's not a lot of cell service on my farm. So I've got to pick and choose where I want to run those cameras. So they're just not dying within a week, but for the most part, he'll be, he'll be close. And if,

if he's on my farm there's more than likely i'll have a picture of him and then i'll start a game plan for that yeah what's in your opinion um what are the what's the likelihood that if a deer's been on your farm he'll leave or that if a deer wasn't on your farm he kind of shows up or um can you tell like sometimes there's a buck just blow up once and you're like hey where'd this deer come from or did he come from some adjacent farm and just end up there yeah occasionally we'll have deer and like man we'll

And we'll, we'll get, once I say, once again, we'll get with the neighbors and like, Hey, do you have a picture of this deer? There's, there's, uh, there's transparency between all of us as neighbors here. If we have a good deer, we're sharing it with the other guys. We're, we're just as happy as if the other guy shoots it as we are. So that, that helps you to strategize saying, Hey, I had a picture of this deer last year and he was three and a half last year. He's only four and a half. We need to let him go another year. So, uh,

They stay, I mean, and like I say, our farms together are, what, there's probably 1,500 acres here? Yep. Over 1,500 acres that we're managing together. So that...

It's a unique, unique situation. I'm blessed to be a part of. Yeah. Yeah. Good neighbors and, and, you know, similar management styles. Um, definitely, you know, help. Are you, are you going to go out, you know, in the mornings or the evenings and, and, you know, let the binoculars do the work? Are you going to try to just leave those deer and pressured when they're, when they're getting a bite to eat out in the, in the ag? Usually, um, I'll, I'll,

I'll take a, like we have miles sections around, around here. Usually drive around the evening times if there's soybeans out and take binoculars and it's a fun activity right before dark to see what's around. Um,

The way our farm lies, it's kind of hard to do that because it's off the road a little way. So I typically don't do that much behind our place, but it's fun to see just, you know, a mile up the road, you can see some nice deer out on the bean fields in the evening before dark and, you know,

It's not that far to go three quarters of a mile and they're on your place. Yep. And, and what time, what time around here are you guys' deer finished out or, you know, you can start to figure out what's around? Usually by first middle part of August, they're, they're, they are what they are. You can see the bulbs on the end of the, the, the, uh, the racks are thinning out and they're going to, they're basically size is done and,

then they'll just wait for the velvet to fall off. They're in their bachelor groups. Do those bucks that are running together, do they start to split at about that time when their velvet starts to fall or they split before that here? No, they'll still be together. And then after the velvet comes off, they'll start their pecking order. And is it at the point where you try to start to figure out like where that big bucks want to hang, where he's bedding, where he's coming out? Is about that time, middle August? Um, yeah.

Or later. It's later than that. So it's going to still, it's going to continue to change until what time? I would say when they'll start losing their velvet, usually around first week, two weeks in September. I mean,

Um, you can still, you can still, um, well, like that, uh, big deer I shot almost 10 years ago. Now I was wanting to try to get him in velvet just because he was so impressive. And, um, so he still was carrying velvet up in the middle of September. So it just varies a little bit. And, and I'm sure you, you've, you've heard us talk about, we've had a deer here on our farm that was, was in velvet year round too. It was kind of unique. So, yeah.

Gotcha. Is your opener always September 15th or is it float on like a Saturday? Man, I, even if I'm after a good deer, it's usually in the middle of September. I don't know whether they're, what day it usually falls on. I don't, I'm usually not that excited. I'm usually not biting my lip that, that anxious, but, uh,

Yeah. I just look at the website and see when first day we can go. And, and like I say, a lot of times, even if you have a good deer coming in, you, you'll look at the weather or, and it's hard for me to get excited if it's 90 degrees, right? Like,

you're sweating and I just don't want to mess up a good stand. I got a good deal. So you're, you're going to wait. Um, so, so when are you going to finally get in the stand? Whether if you've got a great buck, is it when weather drops cold front? Like when, when does Brock Shelton say, all right, I'm, I'm getting dressed up. I'm, I'm, I'm going up in the stand. Yeah. Um,

First and foremost, I look to see if the wind's right, right? Like, I don't mind sitting on a stand if, you know, I'm doing surveillance and as long as the wind's right and I'm not messing up the farm or the stand. I'll look at the wind. I'll look to see the pattern of the deer. I do a lot of – I just watch the deer movement a lot by cell cams and regular cams if –

If I've been in there lately to pull the card, but you, you can, if you've got a good deer coming into a spot, you don't want to go in there. If he's not coming in, you, you want to, you want to play. Like I say, I always say you want to put the cards in your deck over there. You want to, you want to make sure he's coming in. You want to make sure the wind's right. And it's always better if you, if, if you got a front coming in.

Um, it's, those are, those are key factors and you can get, get a lot of good movement that way. Gotcha. Um, so pre-rut, uh, is, are you going to like October 15th? Are you going to start getting the stand more and more? Is that, is that pre, you know, end of October rolls around as long as the weather and the winds, right? You're going to be out. Yeah. Uh, I will, I'll, I'll look at my activity and everybody talks about the October lull. Um, here in Kansas, the last

couple years, it's been colder the first week in October than it has the first week in November, which is, is odd, you know? So, um, yeah, I, I can remember, you know, on November, I think seventh, a couple of years ago, I guess it would have been in 2020, uh, shooting a buck and it was 70 degrees. I was in a long sleeve t-shirt was all, but, uh, October you're,

you can have some deer starting to move, but yeah, it's, but if you got a cold front coming in, they'll, they'll really pick up the pace a little bit. So it's, I just, I just watch and see what the deer are moving on, on cameras and, and,

I'm real big, and if nothing's moving, I don't want to go in there and stink up a stand. Gotcha. So you'll wait until he shows on that area. Yeah, and there's usually enough stuff to do around the farm that I can keep busy and wait until everything's right and in my favor. Gotcha. And then if you still have a tag as you get towards that peak, maybe I'll ask, is there a favorite time, or is it just when that weather and that cold front with the right wind and the movements there? Is that really the...

doesn't matter as long as those three things are there. Yeah. I think weather is huge. I think it plays a huge part on, on a lot of things. And, and,

I just try to stack everything I can in my favor, whether it be the wind, the temperatures, there's so many factors and all that helps you. And it gets the deer up on their feet earlier too, right? If it's colder, they got to get up, they got to go feed. Um, so yeah, I know it's kind of generic, but I, if there's no movement, I don't want to go in there. No, that's, that's,

it's fair i mean sometimes we get we get accused of like oversimplifying calling elk or what we do i know you got to find them you get close to get the wind right and you you hunt them you know so no i i completely understand it's like you know you need the movement you need the deer obviously you need the the the wind to be right and then you need that little weather that maybe gets them on their feet earlier it gets them to the food you know before it gets dark or whatever it may be um with that weather is there something you preferred you like the very very

first 12 hours of a cold front? Is it the first 24, 48? Like if there was like an optimal time in your opinion, like what, what part of that weather change is it that's better than the rest?

I've always said, and Randy and I have talked about this a little bit, my neighbor, that first cold front in season, when season starts, deer are going to be moving. And it just gets them on their feet. It lets them know that, hey, it's getting close, you know. And so I've always had great success even just seeing a lot of deer. That first cold snap of the fall, it just –

it just seems to like trigger things and get things moving. I really enjoy that. And, you know, that goes back to the big deer that I shot. It was October 1st and it dropped down to 40 degrees that night, you know, which is pretty moderate, you know, but it was colder than what it had been. And the timber was just alive. Yeah.

Does it matter if it's a, when you say cold front, is that, are we talking like a 10 degree drop? Are we talking like a 20 or 30 degree type drop? Usually 20 degrees. If you can get a 20 degree drop, you'll just get that much more movement. The colder, the bigger differential, the better there. Yeah. The bigger the Delta T, the better. Now, are you thinking, not to keep harping on this question, is like the first 24 going to be better than like the fourth day of a cold front or the third day of a cold front? Or are they all pretty equal once you just get that, that switch?

I like the first because it's kind of a shock to them, you know. But by the fourth day, they know that, hey, I'm going to have to feed more, which is still good. But that first is just like, hey, this is the kickoff, right? We need to get up and get moving. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, so we talked, you know, the low a little bit, that pre-rut, peak rut. If you still have a tag, you're playing the same thing. You need the movement or you just, even without the movement, now you're going to be out there because it is so chaotic. Yes. So I've always said when I was younger and didn't have cameras everywhere and sell cameras, I loved the first week in November because you had deer running around. They were looking for the doe that was in.

And as I've gotten older and I guess been around the deer herd longer, now I say,

The rut is the best time if you don't have a deer to hunt, because then you might have the neighbor's deer over on you. I say that and we still, I know what the neighbors have, but we share pictures, but you know, some of these other guys that are hunting 80 or 160 acres, if you don't have a good deer on camera, I'd say the rest of the time you need to be hunting because the neighbor's deer may be chasing one of your does back over on your farm and, and

you've got a nice mature deer in front of you. Last year when we were here, so the first year we came, we were more of that pre-rut, maybe just getting towards the peak, you know, early first week of November. Last year we came, I don't remember that we were here on the 15th and went right up until Thanksgiving, maybe the 23rd. And I decided I don't like the peak rut as much as the pre-rut because everything was either running by it at 30 miles an hour or they had a doe pushed up in some little nook or cranny and he just wasn't going to leave it. And so you had a lot of...

you know, small to medium bucks on their feet, but those big bucks were all kind of, you know, in that lockdown phase. And we weren't seeing a lot of movement, um, last year, you know, right in the smack dab of that rut. Yeah, that happens. The big deer will have run off all the little deer and the little deer running around looking for the next doe that the big deers let go. But, um,

Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it can be very difficult. It can be frustrating. I mean, there is no pattern during the rut, as you guys know, you know. Yeah. Do you lose some of your big deer off of cameras for two or three days during the rut or maybe for weeks at a time? They just, they're just, you don't know where they're at on your farm or. Well, you think they're not.

not moving but they're moving it's just in a little you know 300 yard area because they've got a doe they're tending a doe and they've i've i've seen a buck push a doe up against a rock wall fence and keep her there all day and i'm like well looks like i'm hunting all day because he's 80 yards away and i'll wait on him so yeah yeah um yeah it's it was crazy you know we had a

a buck crossroad here in front of Randy's. And all of a sudden you ended up way over by your house. And it's just, that's the kind of movement you'll get. Like,

it's just happenstance that randy owns both pieces or has the the ability to hunt both pieces of property but if that wasn't both of your pieces like you would have got a giant off of your neighbor you know that's a mile away yes which is a good thing but it's also a bad thing if you have specific deer on your property but you may not have access to them because now they're you know stuck on those all day well and then i think a lot of guys too i mean everything happens so quick like

We talked about before, you can spend all year doing food plots, doing everything else, and it comes down to a split 10 seconds. You got to make a decision. And cameras have helped with that because you know the deer, the characteristics, like, oh, he's got a kicker off this G2. That's this deer. I know he's five years old, but...

that you don't have any history with and he's coming by, like you say, running Mach 3 by your stand, you've got to make a quick decision whether, you know, hey, is this an old deer or a young deer? And that's probably the hardest thing I feel about the rut is making decisions on deer that you don't have a history with, you know? Yeah, yeah. In your opinion, like if you had to put a percentage to it, how many deer... How many of you... And you guys have...

I'll paint the picture. You guys have what I would say very well maintained and managed farms, right? You have the food, you have the fall food, you have the spring food, you have the bedding. How many percent of your deer do you lose during the rut? Do you think half of your bucks leave or 20% of your bucks leave or hardly none? Or do you guys get more during the rut? Can you put a number to that? We have a lot of does too on our farms and we've been trying to manage that and bring that number down a little bit.

But I would venture to say that, you know, it's hard to put a number on how many you lose because a lot of times they're making big circles. They can be on, like, for instance, they could be on Randy's farm in the morning and mid-morning on our farm, and they could just make a big loop, and they're just running. It's a big draw in between us. So it's...

It's hard to put a number, but yeah, they're running all over crazy. So is it best just to assume they're around? Is that the mentality you have to go there? Like, I'm going to hunt this buck if I got the right wind. There's always a chance during that peak rut that he's there. Yeah, especially during the peak rut when, I mean, it's hard to pattern or do anything rational with them because they're just all over the place. Gotcha. Yeah.

Well, that's kind of, and then going into the last part would be late season. You guys go all the way to the end of December. If you, for some reason, still have your tag, which typically you don't have your tag at that point, but what's the hunting look like there? Is it back to food source as soon as that rut's over? Yeah, they're back on food. If you've got standing soybeans or corn, standing corn, where you can go in and bush hog some of it off, they'll be piling in like,

I mean, food

food is key. The, those bucks are trying to put weight back on. And then those does too, they've been being chased around everywhere that they're looking for food and everybody's coming back into the food. It's, you know, so they're looking for a big ag and then something that is legal in Kansas is supplemental feeding, you know, whether it's protein feeders or corn, you know, I call them the corn spinners, whatever they are. You guys, you know, do some of that supplemental feeding, um,

How do you, you know, what's your opinion? I know you said back in the day, you didn't do very much of it at all versus like where it is today. Maybe I'm going to, I'm going to turn this conversation, not necessarily whether it's good or bad, but how do you think it affects the deer? Is it, is it ultimately good? Is it maybe, you know, are there some negatives or is it maybe just in that neutral, but it does make sure that the deer go into the winter healthier? Like what's your opinion on this, you know, feeding? Well, you know, it's, it's kind of a double-edged sword because, um,

you have, say, say you have a farm and all your neighbors are feeding it. If you aren't feeding your deer numbers are going to be significantly reduced because I mean, it's like going to a buffet or, you know, going to having to order one burger at a time. It's, you're going to have to do it just to maybe, you know, keep up and have a whole block of guys doing it. Um, kind of keeps everything together. Um,

I use it more as a supplemental. I don't necessarily hunt over it because it's just not what I enjoy doing. You know, I'd rather go into the timber. But I also think it's beneficial for the deer herd as a whole. I know as far as it's not just corn, we're putting out minerals, proteins, trying to make the deer healthier. You know, so it's...

I think overall it's a positive. Um, at first I was hesitant to do it, but I think overall it's a positive. I've seen our deer become healthier. Um, but, um,

That's just my take on it. I think it's supplemental, right? You guys still have the food plots. You guys still have the good ag. You still have the great underbrush. These deer can browse all day long. That's just more of a supplement to add that back into their diet and kind of boost it. So there's still everything else they need here. They would survive without it, but it is making them healthier, getting into the winter. Right. Because I'm in the belief that I don't think big deer like coming to feeders. So that's...

that's, that's just my belief. And I'll, I'll, I'll hunt those deer on other parts of my farm and just supplemental feed the does and the younger deer, you know? Yeah. We've hunted, I mean, we've hunted around them, you know, on the super cold mornings where I'm not in a stand, you know, you're in the redneck cause you're going to freeze to death. And yeah, the does may come in, the fawns may come in, but those bucks are like scent checking that 200 yards off, you know, just seeing if there's anything there. And then, you know, you'll catch a glimpse of them cruising through, but they're very reluctant to

ever come into that thing. But they'll, they'll feed all day out in a food plot. That's, that's what, uh, yeah. Yeah. Randy really got me involved with the food plots, you know, before I dabbled in it and here's some, you know, if,

We were planting beans that year. Our farmer was planting beans. I'd try to have clover in there and have it for a couple, three years and just trying to diversify the food. But with Randy, we've taken it up a notch or two as far as the food plot programs and, you know, providing more food for the deer throughout the whole year. Yeah, I got it right around with him there a couple days ago and we sprayed your honey hole with, yeah, I think we killed the winter wheat and all the broadleafs. And so, yeah, it's...

I love that part of it. Like you are doing work and the work results in, you know, that clover that I'm sure within what, a couple of weeks that clover will be doing better and you get a good rain and that clover is going to fill that whole entire food plot. Yeah. We killed that winter wheat and put down some fertilizer for that white clover and, uh, should be, yeah, like you say, a couple of three weeks, it should expect in rain this week. So it should really pop up. And, uh, Randy and I have always said, you know, this is what's fun is doing all the food plots and the prepping and, uh,

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One other quick question on the food plots. You own the farm, you know, you and your brother and sister own the farm, right? Yes. But you're kind of at the mercy of the farmer, right? Your crop, your ag fields, does that ever, you're like, darn it, I should have just planted those myself this year. Because this year you got stuck with Milo, right? Which is basically not going to be to your benefit hunting.

I've been doing a little research. I think Milo has a little, like a two-week window where it's very, very palatable. And I've seen this, you know, with neighbor raising Milo before. So it just makes it that much critical that our other food plots are –

are doing well enough to sustain and provide as long as they can. So will that make your, the honey hole's what, maybe an acre, maybe a little over an acre of plant? Couple acres, yeah. So is the honey hole, will that make, do you feel that that'll be that much better because that's going to be maybe more of a isolated, concentrated food source versus the, you know, your other hundred acres of being maybe not as palatable? Yeah, I think it will help. I think it'll definitely pick up the traffic in there because like I say,

deer eat milo but it's it's definitely not the 100 acres of soybeans we usually have in there or a fall a good fall source right so it's going to be palatable when it sprouts which is going to be what may june when it's yeah it should be um

I'm trying to think when that Milo, he's already got it in the field. So it'll start sprouting in the next, probably after this rain. Yeah, it's going to get some rain. So one other thing we, why we're talking about food management is water. You guys are coming at two or three year drought, pretty severe drought. This year there's water in these creeks that we've never seen water in before. They haven't flowed for years. Do you feel that that water will, I mean, the deer have always had water, but does that water, it's greener here than I've ever seen. Is that going to, you know,

add on five, 10% to the deer or is it just going to be good overall? I think, um, I think that will help. It's getting us into these, uh, late spring, early, early summer months. If we can keep the water flowing in the creeks, I think that will help us too with like the, you know, not losing deer, you know, that like we have in the past, you know? So yeah. Yeah.

uh, one thing we always love the, it doesn't make the hunter, but it makes the hunt, you know, hunting easier. Um, let's just go into like specific white to hunting gear. You know, we, you know, we hunt elk, you hunt, you know, my bow set up, my broadheads are picked for elk and this or that. So, um, white to hunting specific gear, like what's your archery equipment look like? Are you using expandables? You, you're shooting a lighter setup. Are you still going heavy? You know, I've, I've always, as a younger guy, I chased speed years ago and,

I still like a decent speed bow. My setup is pretty light. I think my arrow and broadheads weigh around the 380 grain, 385 grain. They're light. So ultra light for the Western guy, right? Yes. They're super light. I draw back 63 pounds, but I've always been a shot placement guy. Yeah.

And I I'd rather not have to judge distance too much now than, you know, you know, I'm older and I've got pretty much my stand sites nailed down. I could probably go hunting without a range finder, but I always like taking my range finder range finding a couple, three trees areas around. So when the heat of the moment, something came by, I didn't have to judge distance too much because it was pretty flat shooting bow shooting over 300 feet per second with

with the way you're set up and I do shoot, uh, mechanical broadheads. Um, uh, the deer I shot this last year was just an inch and a half mechanical broadhead. Um, don't have any tuning issues with it that away. Um, and it's, it's worked, you know, it's just worked for me in the past. Um,

and so i'm one of these guys if if it's working for me i don't really want to change it you know yeah no and that's you know you're not trying to get through an elk you know broadside or you know if you make a mishap and you hit a bone so i mean whitetail i've always been a solid guy but you always wonder like hey you know you you know it is kansas it's windier than i've ever you know so it's like man it might be nice to shoot a little expandable maybe get a little less you know head drift and um you know all of that but uh yeah

yeah, I've had great success with the, the, the solid iron wheels here, but you know, it's always like, man, it'd be nice to have an expandable for, for these things. Um, yeah, in the past, I actually even shot an inch and three quarter mechanical broadhead and, um, it's shot placement is key. You know, the, the big deer I shot, um, I watched it fall over. Um,

the deer this last year, I hunt thick enough brush. I didn't get to see him fall over, but he went 15 yards. So, um, shot placement is key. And if, if, if you're able to put it where you want to, and, and I, I won't, if anything's questionable, I won't take the shot. Uh, that's just me. I'm pretty cautious and pretty safe guy that,

Um, like going back to that, that one day I shot, I waited, I waited till he turned broadside. It was 13 minutes. So it was a long 13 minutes, but it was, it was a solid 13 minutes looking at my watch. So, um, I, I just think you need to be patient and not rush it because you owe the animal that. So, yeah.

Um, I was going to go back. You should still bring a range finder in the stand. I know you do in case you have to stand on your tree stand seat and shoot out the back where you've never even thought about shooting before. That happened the year before last. That was a, that was a mishap that, uh, the first shot, um, the deer was close enough that, uh,

My top cam actually hit my bow holder. And so it forced my arrow to shoot underneath of him. And I was actually going to let him, let him go. I'm like, well, it's not meant to be, you know? And then I looked and he was still standing there and he, I saw him dripping blood and I had actually just grazed his belly. And I saw that I needed to do the, the, the right thing and, and, and finish him off. So.

I actually did some things I probably wasn't supposed to do. I stood on my seat and shot through a fork through the back of the tree. So, but, uh, the funniest thing was, is I got to hunt that stand that night or the next day or something. And I'm not, you know, still new at this whole tree stand thing. It takes me a little bit to get comfortable. And I get up this thing and the ladder, uh,

You have – I'm going to explain this story. So his steps to get on this stand are these circle steps, which basically you have to – Little triangles, yeah. You have to stand in – you have to put your toe against the tree. So you've got about an inch that you're hanging on to. Yeah, yeah. So first of all, I'm not real comfortable getting up there. And then when you get to the stand, you realize that the things –

what 15 degree angle into the tree it's leaning back it's a comfortable stand to set and it's leaning back a little ways so i get up and they're not being super comfortable and i'm like and then he tells me like when you get up there stand in the seat and look through the the back fork where i shot and i'm like i'm i'm not moving i don't even know how i'm going to shoot a deer out of this but uh it was funny i think you're you told us the reasoning was you made it so sketchy that your brother wouldn't want to hunt your best yeah sorry brit yeah

Yeah, no, and it's one of those where, you know, we do run safety lines, but, I mean, it is one of those deals where I probably need to reevaluate that. That's the tree that that stand needs to be in. It's just not straight. It's just not straight. But they make some stands now that you can level up and do stuff, and that's probably something I'll probably end up doing this year is getting a better stand in there. Yeah.

Yeah. Cause that morning, my very first day in the stand, I had hunted out of a millennium that had like some side rails. Well, this is just a little teeny foam seat with no side rails and you're leaning, like wanting to lean past the tree. And I'm like, ah, it wasn't real comfortable, but, uh, that's a great segue into my next question. Would you prefer to be in a, uh, tree stand or a ground blind? Tree stand every day of the week. I, I,

I've tried hunting out of a blind and it just seems like there's too many, too many spots. You can't see blind spots. And, um, I, you know, if you have the right, right gear now, you can stay out there in some pretty harsh elements. And I really, I really enjoy it. I just think you see more, you can watch the birds, the squirrels more. And now don't get me wrong. There's some days I'd rather be in a blind when it's 20 degrees and the wind's blowing 30, you know? So,

Yeah, no, I'm with you. Some of Randy's good sets are a redneck or a ground blind or an elevated ground blind, and I feel like, yeah, I'm just –

everything's got to be perfect a deer's got to stand in this like five six foot window where when i'm in a tree stand i can shoot 330 degrees around the tree and um i feel like i'm not going to get picked off as easy they're not looking at me i feel like sometimes those blinds they know they're there and you get those does bob in their head trying to see if they'll catch and move and you're like they know something you know you're just hoping that everything goes right well and with my luck i mean even hunting out of the tree i i

My top cam still hit a little bow holder that's like sticking out three inches from the tree. So who knows what I would hit shooting out of a blind. The buck I killed this year, trying to shoot out the front window of a redneck because he was out front, but really close, like 12, 13 yards. My stabilizer, you know, being a Western guy, I shouldn't even have had a stabilizer, but I just put my bow together when I got here.

lift my bow up, the stabilizer, katunk, right off the front. Thankfully he was so locked in on that doe, he didn't care, but just stuff like that. Like the blind, like, guess what? If I wasn't in the blind, my stabilizer would have been just fine. But so clothing, you kind of hinted to that, like there's good stuff out there, like

Are you, after anything specific, you just want to be quiet and warm, comfortable? Like, what are you, what are you looking at when you put, when you decide what you're going to wear to get through a hunt? Yeah, I, I, I run merino base layers. Um, and then I layer accordingly. I mean,

So much has changed in the last 20, 25 years since I started bow hunting far as, you know, it's like, man, to stay warm, you used to have to look like the Michelin man. You'd be going through the woods. If you fell down, you wouldn't be able to get up type of deal. Now then all this stuff you, you can, you can layer up and,

And, uh, really not be bulky or anything at all. Pretty comfortable. And so I'll run Merino base layers and then alternate some tops and, uh, bottoms, you know, everything's, you know, insulated now and it's, it's really changed. Yeah. Yeah. So you just want to be quiet. Yeah. Quiet is my biggest deal. Yeah.

And to me, that's the greatest enjoyment out of bow hunting probably is being close enough to a mature deer and him not ever knowing you're there. You know, so that's, to me, that's, that's.

Pretty, pretty neat task. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I, you won't insult me on this question. I want your, your honest answer. I know you're, you know, you're, you're paying a lot of attention to patterning deer and where you think they are, um, calling in decoys. Like, will you run a call? If so, which one and how often and when, and then will you ever use a decoy or you just not wanting to kind of what's your, your take there? A lot of that depends on the situation. Like if, if I'm after a particular deer and I know he's in the area, um,

I don't want him to know that I'm there. So I'll be quiet. Now say it's during the rut and I don't have a mature deer on camera that I, that I want to hunt. That's when I'll, if nothing's around, I'll, I'll do the rattling sequence, couple grunts. And I want to see what's in the area because I don't think I have anything that's mature enough to shoot say. So I'm going to try to pull something from somewhere else to see, Hey, maybe, maybe, maybe they've got a deer that's bigger, you know? Yep.

Yeah, that's, that's the one I tend to call. Like if, you know, first thing in the morning, there's good movement or you keep quiet, but it's when, all right, I've been on the stand for 30 minutes, an hour and nothing's going on, you know, crank up the calls a little bit. Or if you do see a buck passing by outside of shooting range, like it may be a last ditch effort, but, um, I don't have the luxury you do. Like maybe if I knew I can go hunting every day or go back out, like maybe, like you said, I wouldn't be as

is, um, apt to call. I would just stay quiet. Like he'll eventually come by. Cause if I spook him out of that tree and he picks me off now, I've just screwed this place up maybe. Yeah. And, and you know,

There's a, there's a lot. I mean, I've called in deer before. I've called in a deer with that's on my wall with the Dobley and a buck grunt. And I, I didn't have any pictures of him before. It was November 10th years ago, you know, and it's, he was just shy 170. I mean, it was a great deer and called him in. It works. There's no doubt. Um, and, and,

You know, if you're hunting all day and it's boring until the middle of the day, it's something to pass the time by, right? You might get something in and you can learn. Say it's only a three-and-a-half-year-old, but you can learn how he reacts and where he's coming from, and it might help you out down the road. Yeah. I mean, we – in that pre-rut year, I think it was November 5th or 6th when we had got here and hunted, and we hit the rattle bag out here behind Randy's and –

three bucks came flying in and so it's like it gave you an opportunity now maybe would a mature buck come i don't know but those three bucks that were more of that you know three and a half year age came you know kind of screaming in and um you know ultimately a big buck did come in an hour later so did you hear that was he going to come to that location anyways but yeah when one of us is cooking like what do you have to lose it's a natural sound um

try it but you know we're we're grunting it bucks out at 80 100 yards away where you have the chance to come back like you're like i'm still not going to blow on it like he'll eventually come by here and make a mistake yeah it all depends on the situation right like it just you don't want to like if you're hunting a particular deer and you know he's going to come by that tree i i would probably tend to be quiet but if it's middle of the rut and you're looking for some action you

By all means, deer, deer vocal, you know, they'll, they'll, they'll respond and check things out. Gotcha. All right. We're going to, we're going to wrap this up, but I want you to, uh, give us like, in your opinion, like what's one mistake that white to hunters make every year that if they avoided, they'd find more success, you know, that maybe something that's, you know, taken as, as the right thing to do, or, you know, maybe mistakes that people made, or maybe you made earlier on in your, your, your hunting that you kind of cleaned up. Yeah. Yeah.

Man, putting me on the spot. But I think I know my answer on that one is going to be people hunting when everything's not perfect. I don't want to say perfect, but not in their favor. I mean, you...

You may be doing more harm. Like I used to have to take a week off when I didn't live, live here. I would have to take a week off and come down and hunt. Well, I thought, man, I need to be in the tree stand every waking minute. Yeah. Well, there's sometimes you're doing more harm than good if you're in the tree stand. If the wind's not right, if, if you're going in at the wrong time and bumping stuff, um, I think you, sometimes you're, you're better off.

say the wind's not right for the stand where you're hunting a particular deer and you don't have another stand to go to,

You're better off sleeping in that morning and going that night. Yeah, waiting for the wind to change. I can't agree enough. It's your answer, but we're the same boat. We get one week. And so I'm speaking for Randy, but I feel like sometimes he feels pressure. He's got to have us in a stand morning and night. And sometimes we're like, I think we're risking it. And that's the case. If you had a target deer and they're a big deer, he wanted to kill one of you guys or a buddy. It's like, man, we could be really hurting this area. But we needed to be there. And so, yeah, I think...

Um, if you're, especially if you were targeting like a specific deer, uh, it may just be best to stay out until you get the right wind. Yeah. And that's, that's key too, is I think to, to maybe try to avoid that is maybe have some stands set up for all the different wind scenarios, you know, access to those stands. But I think that's probably one of the bigger mistakes that a lot of guys make is

hey, I'm here. I need to be doing this. I need to be in the stand. I'm not going to kill him from the couch. Well, that's true, but you're not going to kill him if the wind's wrong either. Yeah. Well, this conversation brought up one more question I wanted to ask you. In your opinion, on a big mature deer, do you have to give him any wind or will he eventually make a mistake and go against the wind when he comes from bedding to feeding? You know what I mean? Yeah. I think your opportunity is better if he thinks the wind's in his favor and it's

five say five to ten degrees out of his favor so you're you're hunting a pretty i don't want to say questionable wind because you just said you're pretty risk adverse you don't want to screw it up but you're going to wait you're going to go out there and like all right it is a true east and i think he's going to come from you know from the south so i you know or even less like i'm going to give him as much wind as he thinks he needs but he's not going to catch me because i'm going to kill him before he catches me before he gets to my wind cone i'm going to kill him and and they're apt to move more if they think the wind's in their favor and you you

You just tricked them by having your tree in the, or your stand in the right tree, because we're kind of going back to that tree stand where you're kind of feels like you're laying in a lazy boy tilting back that that's the tree it needs to be in. I mean, there's. If you're one more tree down, they'd catch you before you can shoot. Yeah. It's and grain, like I say, I'll be fixing that, that tree stand, but it's, it's in the location it needs to be in. So, and it's just details like that, that, you know,

you pay attention to over the years. You know, when I was younger, when I was 25, I wouldn't have been paying that close attention to things. You learn things as you get older or you should be. And, and you realize like, Hey, I need to pay more attention to this. This is what's happening. You have more experience. Um,

And, um, it's, I think they just move better when they think the wind's in their favor, but you, you know, it's, you got them. Yeah. So your, your route in safe, your tree stand safe to a certain degree, but you better not let them get, if you're going to kill them, you better not let them get past a certain area. And that is tough because that same tree we hunted out of, I did have some does come out first. I'm like,

ah, now they've got me. But if it was a buck, I could have killed them. So you're hoping like they get out of the field, get out of my way. And then, you know, if it was a buck, you'd had to shoot them before they got there. So you are letting little bucks into your wind cone, but you're kind of crossing your fingers that you'd kill the big guy before he got through there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Well, I really appreciate having you on here, Brock. It's a great conversation. Like I say, I really enjoy talking, hunting with you. It's, um, you know, you're a great, you know, land manager. You guys got some giant bucks around here. Great Turkey, great Turkey hunting. And, uh, so I, I tip my hat to everything you guys are doing for the white tail deer here in Kansas. And, uh, like I say,

a wealth of knowledge. You guys won't be able to go check him out on social media to check out all of his bucks or his turkeys and what he's got going on, but you're just going to have to trust me on this one that the guy, he knows what he's doing on the white tailwood. So I really appreciate having you on, Brock. Thanks for having me, Jason. Enjoyed it. Take care. Thank you.

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