Ep. 87: 2024 Hunting Season Plans and Elk Hunting Q&A
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Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance Podcast. I've got my partner in crime, Jason Glenn Phelps, here on the podcast today. He's in beautiful PL, Washington, and I'm in beautiful Meridian, Idaho. How are you doing today, Jason? Good, good. It's great.

I feel like spring's kind of, it's not past yet, but we're getting into like, fall season for me kicks off like three months ahead of fall hunting season. So I feel like we've turned the corner and like fall season's ahead of us. So I'm getting excited. Yeah. Yeah. It's those warm days and, you know, spring is kind of starting to fade away to summer and, you know, we're just here at the tail end of spring.

of May, really. And for me, summertime is all about scouting and camping trips and preparation for the fall. So this is my favorite time of year besides September. Yep. Yep. I love it. Everything's happening, preparing for the sheep hunt, preparing for our elk hunts that we have a pretty full schedule. And so I like this time of year. Yeah. So tell us, we're going to talk a little bit today about

our falls and how they're going to line up. What's your fall look like this year, Jason?

so yeah, I've, uh, very fortunate and blessed with everything that's been presented. You know, the, they keep coming. I should go buy a lottery ticket, um, this year and play for the rest of the year because I've been very, very fortunate. Um, you know, starting off, uh, you know, even last year being able to get the tags I wanted in Idaho. Um, you know, and so we'll talk about that in a little bit. And then just recently, um, you know, those that don't know, I was able to kill a hoof-rotted elk here in Washington, just got notified of an incentive tag. Uh,

Uh, so I, I've got a real, real busy schedule. So I'm, I'd actually back in 2020 when I still owned Phelps game calls and was owning and, you know, owned and operated it. I had just got done with my mountain goat hunt and, um,

at first I never wanted to hunt like that again and then about two days later that wore off and I had booked a doll sheep hunt way back in 2020 um for 2024 so um all of the the the trick is so my wife didn't know exactly how much it cost and hopefully she forgets between year to year as I put a little bit down I I paid it in quarters as we led up to it so um

I finally got that paid off. I wanted to be the first time of the year. So 2024 was how long I had to wait. So I'm gonna start off with a dull sheep hunt up in Alaska, which is kind of a dream hunt for me. I'm going to get to do that. And then I, I was just talking about killing a hoof rotted elk. Well in Washington, they've, they've offered some incentive tags for killing hoof rotted elk and then turning your hooves in for additional research and testing. So,

So I killed a bull with hoof rot this year, did everything right. Um, you go to a fish and wildlife drop site. So for me, there's a, in Centralia, Washington, there's a pheasant farm that fish and wildlife operates, went and put them in the plastic bag, filled out all of my, all my information, um, for my chance at like that, that wonk is golden ticket, right? I'm like, this is, this, this is just a, and knowing that there was probably very little chance that I would draw that, um,

Of course, anything that I think I'm involved in, it ends up being three or four weeks late. I had drawn a multi-season tag here this year. All this is coming down. Finally, I get an email while I'm coaching my daughter's fast pitch game that, hey, you've been selected as one of the 19 people that will get one of the Western Washington incentive tags.

So I'm stoked about that. And then there's, there's an additional drawing, right? Cause there's 19 of us, but then the way the units work out, there's five different areas. And within those, there's five tags, five tags, five tags, two and two to makes up the 19. Well, there's some of the spots that I've cut my teeth on hunting and really would love to get in there with an incentive tag. Um, fortunately for me, I found out I drew five of 19, um,

And just found out a couple of days ago that I was fortunate to get the exact tag I wanted out of that drawing. So the stars lined up multiple times for all this to happen. So I will have a very, very good incentive tag. And for those that don't know what an incentive tag is, basically it turns into a governor's tag for certain units with the exception that if there is a general season or a special permit season that goes on in that unit, I have to hunt with the same weapon. So basically, yeah,

I've got September 1st to 31st. Um, Oh, I can hunt all those days. I can only hunt with a rifle outside of normal season. So basically I can hunt September 1st to six with a rifle would have to pick up my bow the seventh to the 18th. As soon as the 19th of September hits, I can go back with a rifle. So basically it gives me almost like a governor's tag, um, in these units. So I'm super excited about that. Never, never had that kind of fortune here in Washington, but I'll, I'll take it.

Um, next up, you know, we had Bo nickel on the podcast, uh, about what, eight or 10 episodes ago. We talked a little bit about this hunt. Um, Bo and I both struck out in the draws in New Mexico and, uh,

I'm not going to, you know, some people don't like the system in New Mexico, the landowner system. I know the locals don't really like it because it seems like, you know, the, the fish and game in that state are being sold. But we, we did take advantage of, of the business that we're in and, and some of the funding that we do have to create content and to go out and really, you know, I say create content, but really Dirk, you know, for those that don't know, like we're out there testing new calls all the way out to 26, 27, right? So it gives us

the chance to be in elk rich environments, good situations. I get to hunt with a guy that I really look up to like Bo. So me and Bo will have landowner tags in New Mexico. Like I say, I'm very fortunate and blessed. I never thought that I'd be able to get these sort of opportunities, but I'm really excited about that hunt. New Mexico is always fun. It lets me really put new product and new ideas to the test because there are so many elk.

So we'll have that hunt. I mentioned being able to get to Idaho, you know, get tags in Idaho. So myself, Tyson, Corey Tombs from Tall Timber, we have a hunt planned in Idaho where we've got both mule deer and elk tags. So really excited about that one coming up, a rifle elk hunt. And then...

Yeah, I think we will know about Kansas tomorrow. The draw takes place and we'll get, we'll know by Friday on the 24th, I believe of May. So we're recording this on the 21st. We'll know whether we're, we're going to be drawn for Kansas whitetail, which I really, really enjoy. And then, you know, aside from any other special drawings, I kind of shot for the stars and all these other units or States that haven't been announced yet. You know,

It may look as like for us, it's, you know, for outsiders that may look like a very, very busy season, but the reality is to have, you know, three elk hunts, maybe a whitetail hunt and the sheep hunt is a pretty light load, especially considering the sheep hunt is going to be in September. So three elk hunts, maybe a whitetail hunt. And then if, you know, hopefully the stars align and I can get a mule deer hunt in somewhere, but we'll see if that's able to happen. So how about what's your fall shaping up like?

Well, the draws haven't really smiled on me much yet. I applied in Montana and they said, I suck. You're a loser. So that doesn't mean I'm not going to try to get on the alternate list. But Idaho draws are not out yet. So in Idaho, you can only pick one trophy species to apply for, whether it's a goat, sheep, moose, or elk. So I'm in the draw for elk.

gave up on my dream of trying to draw a moose tag. I've been trying to draw one of those for over 20 years and just never, just all my friends have drawn a moose tag in Idaho. And I'm just like, you know what? I'm going to try to go after some of these trophy elk while I'm still young enough to do so. And then maybe when I get a little older, once I draw that trophy elk tag, I'll go back to moose trying to draw that. So the draws are not out yet for Idaho.

But definitely going to have a over-the-counter tag. I have a plan with my good buddy, Cody Wilson. He's going to come over. He's a Wyoming friend of mine. I'm going bear hunting with him in a couple weeks. Anyway, I'm going to have him come over and go elk hunting with me together there in Idaho. And we're going to backpack in. And I think we're getting to be joined by our buddy Bradley Damerman from Idaho Whitetail Guides. A guy we go mountain lion and bear hunting with.

He's an awesome elk caller, elk hunter, as is Cody. And I thought, man, what a great opportunity for three great guys to go together and have a good time and chase elk. We're going to backpack it. I mean, we could day hunt this country, but I feel like it's pretty steep and deep and nasty. And there'll probably be a lot of day hunters, day trippers. So maybe we can get back in there and find some little honey holes to hunt.

Idaho. And then talk about being fortunate. When I very first started elk hunting and when I was 15 years old, you know, it was probably pretty much everything to me. You know, I, I'm, I'm not going to lie. I'm like for a boy growing up in a little small town, a wee hype, you know, that's, that was the funnest thing I could ever think of doing. And, you know, I imagine myself years down the road, you know, continuing to elk hunt, but I never imagined I'd have an opportunity to get a really awesome tag and, and,

This year, I was fortunate enough to be able to get an outfitter tag in the great state of Oregon. One of the big three units that's very sought after. And I do feel bad because I know there's a lot of folks that spend...

20 plus years trying to draw this tag. And an outfitter has to go into a drawing with the other outfitters to try to draw a tag in the unit that they guide in. And then if they draw it, then they can sell that tag to whoever. And so it's going to get, that tag is going to go to somebody. And we were able to allocate funds for

from, uh, Phelps Game Calls to buy that tag for me and I get to go. So I'm, I'm pretty excited. Um, the chances of shooting a really nice bull are there. I hope they have a great summer with lots of horn growth and maybe I'll be able to shoot a bull of a lifetime and, and not like a raghorn, but, uh, you never know. I mean, it's hunting, so I'm pretty excited about that. It's going to be a pretty physically demanding hunt. So, um, I turned 50, uh,

50 today. So I guess my childhood's over. It's time to start getting serious about things.

Start training. Yeah. I feel like you joined me when I had that same rifle tag. Yeah. What, three years ago? Two years ago? So I get to be the Sherpa on this one and walk in all your footsteps and root you on and be your cheerleader. So I'm stoked. You know, a lot of these, you know, back in the day, I would say 10 years ago, I always wanted to be the trigger puller, but now I take just as much

I have just as much fun and get just as much excitement out of watching my buddies kill stuff and accomplish awesome things. And, um, so I'm, I'm super stoked about this. I'm really excited with, um, you know, when these outfitter tags happen, you know, I don't want to hunt what we don't want to hunt with just anybody that gets them. Right. And so we, you know, they kind of vet us, we kind of vet them. What are you after? What type of hunt do you want to do? And, and we were able to find, uh, uh,

a guy that I think, you know, he just wanted some people to hunt hard and do it right and give the tag some justice. And so we've been talking with Derek quite a bit and, uh, I think it's, it's going to be, be awesome, um, with Eastern Oregon outfitters. So I'm excited to see what we're able to put together. And, uh, like I say, you know, talking with him, I think we're all on the same page and it should be a real, real good hunt.

Yeah, absolutely. And one other cool thing is Jason said I could borrow his, his, uh, big old Canyon roller gun, if you will. I don't, does that gun have a name? Do you? Oh, we just call it the edge. The edge. The edge.

The 338 Edge, it weighs about 87 pounds. I don't know. It's big. But Jason said he would be my gun bearer. And so I'll just snap my fingers and I'll be, Jason, bring my gun to me. I'd like to shoot this elk of a hair. So he'll pack that thing around for me. All right.

Am I going to dial it? Does it need to come pre-dialed for every shot situation so I have to use pull trigger? Well, yeah. I mean, you got to lay the rifle out. You got to range it. You have to dial it. You got to do the calculation because, I mean, you are the math wizard and basically, you know, genius nerd. So you can figure all that out. All I have to do is lay down and shoot. Do you want me to bring like a thick shooting mat and a thin one depending on?

The terrain and everything. So I'll have to roll out the shooting mat for you and load the gun and. Yes. Okay. I don't want to have to lay on rocks or, or get wet, make sure it's waterproof. Um, you know, I don't like getting wet when I'm hunting. No, I'll probably, I'll probably have to pack that thing myself. I guess. I mean, if you want me to, I mean, I don't even know if I can shoot that thing. I guess, I guess I did shoot it once. I shot my deer with it in Montana here a couple of years ago. So. Yeah. It seemed to work. So.

Yeah, it works good. So now, and then you're also in for Kansas. I have a bad feeling that like one of these years we're not, we can't be fortunate. We've drawn everything we've ever put in for Kansas. So fingers crossed we can do it one more time, but we'll see. Yeah, I hope so. I've got an ax to grind with the Kansas bucks and I can't get revenge on the buck that I missed last year because he's no longer alive, but you know.

Wait. Oh, he's still alive? Oh, wait. That was a different buck. It was the other. They shot the other giant eight point. The other big eight point. Yeah. Yeah. Some lady was able to shoot a big buck that was kind of like the arch rival of the eight point that I missed. And it was a dandy. So maybe we'll swoop. I hate to like give names to animals. It's kind of dumb. But we kind of call him swoops because his main beam kind of swooped up real big and kind of.

I think he's probably pushing 160 inches. He has a great buck. He's big. And it was a heartbreaker. The funny thing was we never had a great trail cam picture of this. And I went and sat on a stand.

that had pictures of him yeah and he was a do not shoot because he was too young buck and then i seen your video and now we all kind of joke coy is like yeah i shouldn't have told you he was a non-shooter because i'm like i would have been because he very as we mentioned his main beam swoop up almost like a front fork versus a main beam that curls out right and he was very very distinct and um i'm like i could because i would have known it was him like i've got to pass this thing i just sat there and cried during the shoot

Dirk just blew right through the rules. He never looked at that. That's why you don't look at trail cam pictures when people are telling you what you can and can't shoot. You just. Yeah. I wasn't in on that conversation. I didn't, I didn't get that briefing that said, oh yeah, shoot this. Don't shoot that. Don't shoot that buck. We got to let him grow. I'm glad I didn't see that. Cause I'd have been like, dang it. There's that. What do I do? No, I don't. I think talking with Koi and Randy after the fact, like they would have never, they would have never cared if we shot that buck. They just, they didn't know exactly how big he was. Yeah. Yeah. He's a good mature buck. So.

Yeah. Anything else? You got any, um, you know, uh, well, I'll have it. I put it, I applied for some mule deer tags here in Idaho. Um, if I don't get like a trophy unit, then I'll get up over the counter one, which I can probably hunt the area you hunt. So we're just kind of trying to figure out what,

I haven't locked in my plans a hundred percent in Idaho. So, um, we'll, we'll see, we'll see Phelps. I may go, go on that hunt with you. We'll, we'll see. Okay. Yeah. That'd be fun. And there's always Idaho whitetail too. You know, it may be, I mean, if it don't work out to go mule deer hunting, I could always do whitetails. Um, you know, it's,

It's a low percentage of chance to shoot a big buck. I don't even think I put my rifle on a deer last year. It was a tough hunt, you know, bad weather and timing was not good for Idaho whitetails. But, you know, that's hunting, right? We're going to have to...

And a running joke, since we just took all the Kansas and Arkansas and Missouri boys hunting out here and kind of took them on a true Western turkey hunt and put mile after mile after mile on. The joke is that we're not getting any electric or motor vehicle rides to our stands. The joke is that they're going to make us walk 14 miles to get our deer stand just for

Well, they said that one time they're like, um, as far as they went that one day Turkey hunt and they could have walked from their house to the nearest city, which was like 16 miles or something like that's one way all the way into that one town. Dang it. That's a long walk. Like, I don't know why you guys were so mad at turkeys. Don't want to walk that much. I mean, it's a thing. It's a bird Phelps. We're going to save this for a different episode, but, um, it is, um,

I don't even know if I want to open the can of worms. Washington was at the epitome of turkey hunting there for a bit and it has been discovered. I'll just say that. And it's not, I don't foresee it in the near future ever being what it was moving here on forward. There's just,

all in about a two or three year span, just tons and tons of pressure, which, uh, maybe some of that belongs on me for talking about. I don't know. But, um, I don't know. Are you Jocko? Link said it. Jocko Link said, you know, you have to, it is, it is what it is, but never, ever seen more piles of feathers, more boot tracks, more, a lot of what we've seen out there. And it wasn't like this last year. So, uh,

Man, I don't know what the solution is. Or if there is a solution, maybe just our heydays are going to be gone or just not as good. But anyways, we're talking big game today. Nobody wants to talk about turkeys until next January, February. Exactly. Stupid turkeys.

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Yeah, so maybe we should read some questions. Do you have some questions today? Yeah, I was able to gather a few questions. And, Dirk, I'm going to have you drop the beat for our new Q&A sponsor. This portion of the episode is brought to you by Pendleton Whiskey. Letter Buck.

That's that is great. It's almost superhero. I bet I could probably get, get the job when that one guy passes away, that voice is over for Optimus prime onto transformers. I could probably get that job. What do you think? Oh, definitely. Definitely. Gotcha. Yeah.

Okay. My name is Optimus Prime. Yeah. And I will, I'll write a letter of recommendation that, you know, cause I'm more than willing to let my buddies go chase their dreams. So that's. I thought you were saying more than happy to let me go. Like, yeah.

nice knowing you don't read too much into letting my buddies chase their dreams but yeah just no no we're gonna jump into like i say it's it's almost june um you know most people's elk season doesn't start to september but um i mean our literal season doesn't start till september but it's it's what's on our brain already three months out um starting to just get everything figured out so we're gonna jump right into additional elk questions um so this question came into us um

I think from a relatively new hunter, but they're able to locate elk before dark in the evening coming out to feed. What should they expect in the morning? What's that elk movement look like? Should they go back to that same area? Should they go back to that same patch of timber the elk are coming out of? Or what's their typical movement? Why the lights are off? Yeah, typically more times than not.

If you go back there in the next morning, the elk should be within hearing distance. If you get there, you know, before first light. If you're an hour late, you may not hear any bugles at all. It just depends. Every year or every year is different. And then you have a lot of things against you, you know, whether it's moon phase, other hunters presence, predators, whatever.

But as long as they were undisturbed, you know, from the night before through the night, they should be there in the gray light of morning. They should be within listening distance if the bulls were talking. Now, if you're there...

on like sometimes like on a full moon, I've had it to where bulls will be in their bedding area within 30 minutes to an hour after first light and done. They, they're done talking for quite a while, you know, until midday maybe. So, um, if you're going to do that, you want to make sure you want to be there bright and early just to make sure you're, you're, you know, where the elk are at and where they're going in case you can't intercept them. Yeah. And, and,

I always assume there needs to be an assumption made, and it really depends on how big the country is. If I can go back to where I've seen them from and it's not a giant canyon or it isn't going to take me an hour or two to get around, I may go back to that same spot as long as the wind and everything else is going to be good, relocate them, and then draw up my plan.

If it's big, big country and my best bet to go kill that elk is to be over there, then I'm just going to assume they're coming back to that spot and I'm going to go get the wind right, come up below them, whatever it may be. But yeah, I would say I'm always expecting elk to be back in the same spot. Now with that said, elk are elk and there's nothing to say that they don't feed up a canyon up and over the ridge and drop on the backside. Maybe they were doing a bigger...

I wouldn't get held up on them being in the same spot, but how am I going to say this? I'm going to assume they're going to be in that same spot, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're not in there or they're not around or they're a mile up the ridge or into, you know, in a different feeding pattern, maybe making a loop. So, um,

Yeah, that's, I'm typically going to go back to that. It's, you know, it's live sign. They were there, what, eight hours ago. They're typically going to be in the same general vicinity. And we can even kind of extend this to bulls beagling, you know, at night or in the middle of the night. Like, what should I do? Well, go back to that spot because what I've found is typically those elk are going to be very, very tight to that location come sunrise. One thing I experienced years ago was,

I had located a bunch of bulls the night before rifle season, man, they were just bugling their heads off. It was awesome. And I'm like, Oh yeah, this is a done deal. We're going to swoop in here tomorrow morning. You know, there's some clear cuts and, and we're going to catch these things and we're just going to, you know, bang them up. We're going to, we're going to all going to tag out. Well, they moved in the night.

Not very far, probably a half a mile, but they moved over onto some private property and there were some guys over there waiting for them the next morning that I think just by happenstance and they shot the devil out of them. So, you know, they can move if you're, if you're in that, some of that country that's, you know, checkerboarded or, or, you know, you're hunting that fringe area of private, they can move easily back and forth to where you may just miss out on that opportunity.

Yep. I'm, I'm in agreement there. Um, so this one's tough and I'll see how you answer it. Um, how does hunting pressure affect your hunt or how do you allow it to affect your hunt? How do you adjust to it? And have you ever been able to use it to your advantage? Um, yeah, it affects my hunt a lot. And,

If I have, if I go to my spot that I want to go to and hunt and there's people already there, I just back, I don't even go in. I don't want to hunt around them. For number one, I don't want to,

I don't want to foul up their hunt. I don't want them to foul my hunt up. Unless now let's say this is like a huge, huge amount of country and you can hike in and you can get away from people. You know, that's, that's a different, different story. But if it's like in the spot, I probably going to go somewhere else. And then,

Let's say you get to that trailhead and there's 40 pickups there and there's a few decent trails leading out of this from this trailhead. Let's say you go up and then the trails branch off and, um,

Typically, most of the people I assume are going to probably get on that trail and hike it for a while. And some people are going to go deep and some people are going to go as far as they can. So they'll be spread out along that trail. And if this is mid-season or late season, the elk that were along that trail on the opener, they're long gone at this point. They've probably been pushed out of there. They've been educated. They've been spooked out.

So I'm going to look at that and be like, okay, I don't want to hunt right here by the trail. I want to, I want to look at where the elk would go away from that trail. So you kind of look at the country. We kind of did this in Colorado that one time we kind of hunted that stuff closer to the trail, but we were off trail. When we, we dove in, we, we walked off the trail and kind of picked our way through the landscape and then we,

There was some elk in there and there were some people too. It's like, all right, we got to get away from where everybody else is at. So we looked on our onX and we could look up

If we go cross over this mountain and back into this drainage on the backside, there's no horse trails leaning, leaning into that spot. So I'll bet this would be a good place to find elk. So we made this horrendous climb. I mean, I think we were like 11,200 feet going across the top there. I was kind of winded. I was like, oh man, it's so weird. If you're not used to that elevation, it was flat on top. We were like walking along. I'm like, man, I'm just winded walking across this hillside here. Yeah.

And then when we dropped off, you know, we got over to the next rim down into that next drainage and did some calling, bam, there were bulls bugling in there. So we were able to capitalize on that. So look at the places that are going to steer most people away from hunting them. If there's a lot of pressure around, where would you run to and hide if you were an elk? And then go to those places and you'll probably find more success than just hunting off the same trail everybody else is.

Yeah, no, I, I always talk about, um, the story when me and Charlie went to Idaho for our first time in 2014, we really didn't know the area. We knew some spots we wanted to try and I was fortunate and killed my bull the first day we were in there, got it packed out. And then we went to a different, a completely different zone or area within that, that unit.

And, uh, we're just driving around kind of scouting and there are, there's a trailhead there that have seven or eight rigs parked at it. And there was really nobody else up and down the road. So we start to

you know nobody hold judgment but we're locating from the road right we're glassing we're bugling in the patches of timber and and bits and pieces and we're noticing that like is this a joke like you almost wonder like if you're on candid camera at some point because there's like there's three or four bulls down in this patch of timber i see a herd out here in the wide open um and so we we go through this whole hunt charlie ends up killing that next evening

So everything went great for a hunt, but then we hung around and talked to some of these people and these people that were way deep in on this trailhead with everybody were, they weren't seeing any elk.

and it kind of was like well we're just two or three miles off of this trail system and down to these other finger ridges it was easier to get to it was more accessible but there was so much pressure in one major drainage that did look good like if you were to look at it on a map you're like yeah there's gonna be elk in there but these elk adapted rolled out became even easier to hunt than some of this deep stuff and um

Like I say, not that we'd ever do it again, but we rolled into Idaho two days, you know, a six by seven and a six point bowl. And we rolled out of there and it was, it was a great hunt, but you know, to, to kill Charlie's, we really used all of that pressure to our advantage and ultimately had a way better hunt than these guys that were hiking in six, seven, eight miles. Um, and, and it's like, it was awesome.

I would hesitate to ever say elk hunting was too easy, but on that scenario, it was pretty dang easy because these people had really concentrated these elk for us.

It sure seemed like it. And I remember you were texting me that year and you're like, Hey, what are you guys getting into? And you thought I was like fooling you. You're like, cause I'm like, we're getting our butts kicked over here and we're hunting a complete opposite side of the unit. Right. And we're quite a ways away, but we were getting our butts just handed to us and Phelps is over there just stacking them up. And so in my opinion, you, if you, if you're not having any luck where you're at,

If there's a lot of pressure or maybe a lot of predators, whatever the case may be, don't be afraid to move, move spots because, um, you know, you take a drive across the unit, you know, relocate it, almost relocate, relocate a zip code away and try it again. You may just be covered up in elk. Um, yeah.

Yeah, I was, I thought you were messing with me, you know, the old hunter's trick, like, oh, this unit sucks. Like I'd never hunt here again. And then you kept like asking me, did you really, were you really in that? You know, it's like, I swear I was in, in that, you know, unit X, Y, Z. It just, it was good for a couple of days and really just worked, worked well on us. So, uh, you know, worked well for us. And, um, like I say, we probably could never line it up, but I will just to let everybody know how much better that wasn't that like Charlie, my buddy, we had actually, he had

I shouldn't, he had nicked a bull very, you know, marginal shot. The bull is fine, but like that morning. So I killed the next morning, he hit the big herd bull and then killed the satellite bull. Um, later that night, um, normally we wouldn't hunt. We would continue to search, but we seen him running, you know, it was one of those like long ways off. We could see the blood like low on its, on its leg. Um, so I will, I will cover our tracks with that. Like we weren't just shooting at every bull we saw. Um, that's not us, but we hands and knees and,

But it was real good. And I'm just using the additional part of the story to just explain how using pressure can sometimes help. And then back to all the way to how does pressure affect our hunt? If it's a giant area and there's multiple spots that I know a trailhead leads to or a road system, all good.

I'll go in there and, and, um, you know, if I feel that it's, it's, it's not trampling, you know, trampling on somebody's area, if there's enough area to hunt for two guys, but just like Dirk, if it, if it's a pretty tight confined area that this leads to, like, I'm just going to bounce out and go find my own spot. Uh, typically. Yeah. And one, one additional point, um, which may go more to scouting or finding elk within the unit. Um, as much as I don't like to pay attention to people, like,

Being new to area, I never overlook where all the rigs are parked from an elevation standpoint to a terrain standpoint, to a feed standpoint, to maybe just where elk are at. And, you know, use that to your advantage because elk,

most likely six or seven or eight or 10 rigs at a trailhead. They're not in there because they like to hike and they're not in there because they like the scenery they're in there because there's probably elk in that zone. And so you can start to use that to like, well, there's something similar over here, eight miles away. Like, well, I'm going to go check that out. See, you know, same elevation, same type of feed, um, go see if there's elk over there, but nobody seems to be using it. So I use that, um, to my advantage a lot of times, um, cause I see where everybody's stacked in. Yeah. Yeah.

In Wyoming, for instance, over the years, it seems like there's a kind of a band of elevation that I found elk in. You're too low, you're not in them. You're too high, you're not in them. But there seems like there's a kind of that sweet spot. So maybe you see people hunting that sweet spot of elevation. You find a place that's not full of people. There's nobody there. I would...

I would imagine if there's, you know, a fair amount of elk in the unit that there's probably going to be elk in that same, that same band of elevation or similar, similar habitat. Definitely. Yep. All right. Onto our next question. Um, we've all been on a super tough hunt. Um, things aren't going your way. How do you stay motivated throughout a hunt? Um, you know, let's say five, six, seven days, either no bugles, or when you do get one coming in, the wind messes you up. Like what's your, what's your motivation, um, to stick it out?

It can be hard, especially I can assume for folks who haven't been elk hunting for a long time, it can be really hard and disheartening. For me, I know my system works. I know that bulls will talk eventually. And I know that once we can get the right one talking, we can call him in and shoot him.

Um, and with that information in back of my head, I know, I know my system works. And so I have that confidence. I know it's going to work when it's going to work is a tough part. And it can be tough because I've gone, um,

seven days one time without even hearing an elk bugle on this one unit. It was tough. And then finally on the seventh day, I heard one talking and I called him in and, and missed him. But, but, but having that confidence in the back of your head, but if you don't have that confidence, you've maybe you've never experienced success or maybe you're just brand new to at it. You have to have that, like, don't give up attitude. Like,

You have to like, remember back, like when you're sitting at work and you're like, man, I wish I was hunting right now. And you, everybody else is hunting. You're stuck in the office. Well, what are the alternatives? Well, I could go home and I could go back to work. I could go home, mow the lawn, paint the house. You could do honey do's. What, what, what are the alternatives? Well, this is, this is awesome. You have to, as motivated as we all are, or, you know, we try real hard to, you know, notch that tag. And maybe we're not.

we're not having any luck doing it. It's kind of a drag, but we have to like sometimes pause and remember, remember why we're there and try to enjoy it. So, you know, it's part of the process. I always say, you know, it's not a perfect Delcon. It hasn't, it's not a perfect Delcon at all until you've had the lowest of lows and the highest of highs. And sometimes that happens a few times in 10 days. So, um,

You just have to kind of know and have, just keep that motivation that, to, that is, it could happen on the last minute of the last day.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to elaborate a little bit on that. Like I hate the word motivation because I feel like that's like your gas tank, like it can run out, right? You always start a hunt with a ton of motivation, but like for me, I have to just stay disciplined regardless of my motivation, whether it's high or low, or I've got like, you know, I'll get re-motivated throughout a hunt because you got an, you know, you found a new big bowl in an area or there's elk bugling everywhere. But like

on the downs or two or three days and not hearing a bugle or you know when getting yeah like your motivation hits rock bottom and then it's like what's going to pull you through so like for me it's just discipline knowing I came here and not to not to be like all preachy or anything but

I remind myself, like you went into this hunt with a specific goal, like, and I need to stay disciplined to, to try to accomplish that goal, regardless of my motivation or, um, you know, hunting should be fun, but I'm not going to lie. There are some grinds on some hunts where you're like, I'm not having fun, but gosh, dang it. I planned all year to come here and kill a bull. Like, what do I got to do to make this happen? So, um, you know, motivation was maybe a word or that I don't necessarily like, like stay disciplined. Um,

One of the things that helps me at times when motivation is down or somebody to talk to is a good hunting buddy for us. It may be a camera guy, right? Or a hunting buddy. We've, I think over time you've reduced your list of people you hunt with because they are those buddies that will pick you up.

when you're down and maybe they're up or you know it's always easier if you're not the guy that just missed a bowl or you're the guy with the bow in your hand when you get winded like hey we got him next time right we got to keep grinding you're going to be fine where it's it always seems to be the guy that missed or the guy that got winded that that is maybe a little tougher on themselves so

good hunting buddies, good camera guys, um, whoever it is, we can bounce ideas off of like whoever that person is, um, can definitely help. Um, and I think we've, we've, you know, I've been fortunate to surround myself with, with guys that have the same, same game plan, the same amount of discipline. And at times I'm not going to lie. Like you need them to pick you up. And at times you need to pick them up and it just, it's a system that works for me.

Um, and then it's just the experience of knowing I've been in this situation before I've been on day seven or eight and I haven't killed a bull or I haven't had things go right, but it just takes the one, like being able to live that and like see it through.

um, gives you the confidence you need to, that you're doing the right thing. Um, and that you just need to keep grinding. You need to climb the hill again. You need to go down and try to call that bull in when, yeah, you might have to drop a thousand feet or you might have to climb a thousand feet, whatever it may be. But it's like knowing that you've been in that situation and it's turned out positive in the past is, um,

And then you start to stack multiple occasions like that. You start to realize that you're always just a minute away from the hunt turning in your, in your favor. And then you go home and never remember the, the, the eight bad days. You remember that, that when everything worked. Um, and so, yeah, being able to, to, to call back on your experience and know that this is normal, no matter how good of a hunter you think you are, you know, it'll eventually, it can pencil out. It won't always pencil out, but it can. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know how many times it's been on the last day of the last minute.

that it's come together for me. Um, Kansas last year, whitetails, I mean, it was the worst whitetail weather we'd ever hunted in, right? It was, we, we went there packed for nice cold weather and man, we were sweating half the time. It was just not, you know, ideal, but we went to the stand every day. We put, you know, you just got to punch that time clock and make sure you're there when, when the deer come by. And sure enough, literally it was the last

10 minutes, 15 minutes of light on the last day and here comes a buck. So, yep. Yep. Nope. Um, I, I agree. Uh, don't, don't be motivated to be disciplined. Um, motivation will definitely help you walk a little bit faster on day one though. That's what, that's what that's good for. Okay. Yeah. I like that. I like that.

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Dirk, do you hunt all day for elk or is there times when you decide to come back to camp and kind of what triggers that decision or kind of what's, you know, where are you at on hunting all day? And we all know if you've listened to any of our podcasts, we think it can be effective, but I'll let you take that one and run with it. Yes and yes. I'll hunt all day and I'll come back to camp. Just depends. So,

In your typical Northwest states, I will hunt all day. I want to be in the woods. And I, a lot of times I, I have that midday, midday madness. I call it, you know, where, where you locate bulls in their bedding area and you get in close to them, you can call them out and they come out really well. They're very defensive of that space. But in New Mexico here a few years ago, we were just having bulls.

not real good luck with that whole midday madness thing. It seemed like, um, those elk would bed in places where if you tried to get close to them, they're going to pick you off. Like you, you, you get a, you could even try to get a couple hundred yards away and pretty soon one would pick you off. So it almost kind of seemed futile, futile to, um,

try to make those midday moves on those elk. Now, there were times where we would sit on the hillside across from them and just kind of keep tabs on them. And a lot of times, at least for that area, those elk would bed for an hour and a half, hour or two, and they would get up and move. And a lot of times there wasn't a lot of bugling afterward. They just kind of like give you an Irish goodbye. They just kind of sneak off, not say a word. And

And as the shadows were getting a little longer, you thought, all right, it's time. The wind's good. I'm going to go move over there. And they were just long gone. So...

We kind of did both in those areas. You know, we'd stay on the hill all day, sit there and sweat in the sun. And other times we'd go back to camp and it was hot there too. So I don't know which was worse, right? But I feel like if you stay in the field, you're going to be in the game, but you have to just really be smart. You can't, you don't want to spook them off. If the odds and the wind and the cover is right to make those midday moves, great. But if it's not, then maybe just stay, stay,

um, across from them on across the drainage or across the hillside somewhere. Uh, keep tabs on, keep, don't sleep. Um, keep your binoculars up, see which, which where they're heading. If they get up in the middle of the day quietly and move off, then, um, go move with them and, but, but don't blow them out of there. Yep. I agree with that. Almost,

almost completely the only time i typically go back to camp is if you either like lost them going to bed or you weren't able to keep track of them or um so if we've got elk bedded typically i'm going to find a shade tree especially like that new mexico the hot stuff yeah i'm just going to find a shade tree and wait because they're not going to you know they're obviously they're awake but they're not going to wake up as far as bugling until about an hour and a half before dark

and then the race is going to be on. You got to try to intercept them coming back towards water. Just like you in the mountains, like I can hunt here in Western Washington all day and the hunting is, yeah, there's more action in the morning and the evening. But like if I'm doing my job right, like it can be good all day. The temperatures are cooler. There's lots of water. We're not like, we don't have the heat stacked against us here. Yeah. So the only time I usually go back to camp is if my area just sucks from the morning. There's no elk in there.

or my elk didn't go to the bedding area, or there's just, if it was an exploratory mission, a lot of times I like to do my, my morning scouts of a new area in the morning. Cause it gives me a really good read on the area. If they're elk around talking and if there's just nothing by midday or I can't get to like maybe some detached ground that like requires a big drop and elevation that I can get closer or go check a different area out. Um, I'll head back to camp, but most of the time we're hunting all day. And if we're in elk, um, we're definitely hunting all day.

I don't make it a routine of going back to camp every day, though. Just, I know a lot of people will do that. They'll make their little morning hunt and they'll go back and like, yeah, let's have breakfast or let's go, let's like burgers or, you know, let's have a nap or whatever. I wouldn't make a routine of that. I would, you know, if at all possible, I'm going to stay out in the field. And if...

If it makes sense to go back to camp, I'll do it. But most of the time I won't. Sometimes I'll go back to camp. If I'm like just completely spun out that morning, I'll go back to camp, grab, maybe grab a bite to eat and then off to a complete different place, you know, or, um, or maybe I'll even move camp in the middle of the day, depending, um,

Yeah, I guess there is, I mean, piggybacking on that, let's say like our New Mexico hunt, you know, it's 10 days in a row. We're all, we're all,

like dusty, dirty, sticky, gross. Like if, if I pulled a plug on a, on a midday, like it's usually going to be early in the morning. Like, all right, we just need to reset, go get showers, go get like a warm meal in town, whatever it may be like, and do a full reset so that you can kind of re I'm going to use that word motivation again, kind of get re motivated on that hunt. And it's, it's weird how

At times, like that's all it takes. Like you're now walking faster, you're hunting harder, you're willing to go, you know, those little like mental, mental pickups, um, seem to be huge at times. Um, we don't always need them, but I'm not going to lie. If it plays into the, to the, to the system, then, then I take advantage of those when we can. Absolutely. Yeah. It's funny. Like you say, it's like you wash off the bad and, and now it's like, I feel good again. I'm it's almost like day one again. It's weird. Yeah.

I need a portable shower is what I need. We do that. That one that Lampers had, that one Lampers had was a lifesaver. You just pull some water out of a bucket and propane heat. It was awesome. Did you guys share water? We didn't share water. We shared the shower. Oh, you did? Yeah.

not not the shower together like the shower oh he took turns one at a one at a time oh yes one okay okay gotcha gotcha and there there there may have been enough water in the bucket that we shared water but not once again they're not water in the shower just get i just want to make sure i understood all right yeah i i see you're painting a picture over there yeah um

All right. Last question for today. And this is kind of just a, a soft toss for you to kind of spin your own, your own question into here. So what, what is a, some or a common mistake or misconceptions that like beginner archery elk hunters should be aware of or avoid in your opinion? There's a lot of people, I guess it depends on what kind of hunting you're trying to do. There's a lot of people who will say,

Oh, don't call, don't call much. Or they, there's this like preconceived notion. Don't never call like a big bull. Don't call very much ever. Don't ever call. Um, I guess if you're going to be a spot and stock person, um, yeah, that's great advice. Don't, don't call at all. Um, unless you're trying to stop your animal, but if you're actually actively trying to call in and you, you want to go out and you want to interact and you want to use calls to call in an elk, um,

I feel like it's kind of like a card game. There's times to call hardly any, and there's times to call a lot. You have to kind of understand those times. So as a new, new hunters will sometimes be indoctrinated by somebody, maybe grandpa Joe, maybe by the internet, by somebody to look up to, you know, don't, don't call or never call like a big bull. But I'll tell you, there's, there's times where when,

calling to a big bull unless i call like a big bull too he won't even acknowledge he won't even answer but if i start ripping big nasty bugles like he's doing he gets mad and and replies and a lot of times come in just like that that one bull in new mexico that time um it and that was not just an isolated incident over the years it's it seems to be like those big bulls almost

If you're a raghorn, they're just not really worried about you. But if you're a big dominant bull that's actually challenging them, they start paying attention. Now, they may do a couple things. They may run off, take their herd and leave. He may get pushed his herd away and then come back and fight. Who knows? But I definitely will call like a big bull when the time is right.

And then also people say, oh, you don't call you that. That guy calling way too much. Well, if you're around elk, they're calling like, especially in a rut fest, bulls will bugle almost every breath. I mean, every, every 10 seconds I've had bulls bugle. I've had bulls come in bugling every 10 seconds on the way to me. I've, I've listened to elk just going crazy. I've heard cows, cow calling a lot. I guess, yeah,

you probably want to kind of try to match what's going on. If elk are being kind of quiet, maybe you shouldn't call as much. If elk are going bananas, yeah, you want to call a lot. But to just kind of like...

broadcast, like, just like, you know, put it all in one scenario. Like don't ever call very much. Don't ever call like a big bowl, just call like a little squealy bowl or whatever that, that kind of pigeonholes you until like lost opportunities, my opinion. Yeah. I've, I, I share this example a lot. Um, you know, we get in not saying it doesn't work and I, there's lots of ways to do this, but I'm also like a student of the game. I feel like I listened to guys that

Do you only want it? You know, we get a lot of people come by the booth. Like I don't want a big bull call. I just want satellite, you know, or a spike squeal. Yeah. And, uh, it's fine, but I've been out in the woods and I'm very fortunate. I get to hunt with some great colors and some that I would say are on the higher end or the higher, you know, end of volume, you know, being loud, big colors. And I've been in the same piece of woods with,

you know, you and a bowl with Charlie and a bowl with Tyson and a bowl, you know, these guys that can call as good as I can or better and with similar volume. And I'm like, all right, if you were trying to sound like a smaller bowl, then you would be a quarter of the real bowl. You know, like they're not able to keep up calling as loud and as big as they can with maybe the rag horn or the medium sized bowl that's coming in for

versus now if you were to tone that back, like you really aren't matching and being as realistic as possible. You know, once you're in the timber, once your beagles, you know, thumping off of all the brush and the timber, like,

And sometimes I even question like what we determine a little bowl versus a big bowl. Like we've always been there. We can hear that guttural roar. We can hear that rasp. Like there are some key, but like if it's just a high note bugle, like I, I don't even know if I'm good enough to really determine that was a big bowl or a small bowl. And we, I've been surprised a lot of times on the ground. So yeah,

Um, yeah, when we get into nasty grunts and chuckles, but I mean, how many five points have we seen in our lifetime that come in growly, super good chuckles and grunts and you're like, well, my, I tracked the wrong bull down his voice, you know, his, his, uh, you know, his bugle misled me. Um, and so I,

I don't know. I've, I've got enough real life experience and I've killed enough baby rag horn bulls off of trying to call like the biggest herd bull out there. Like I'm not convinced that calling like a small rag horn at times would get me anything better than I've already got. Um, regardless of whether I'm hunting herd bulls or satellites. Absolutely. Well, one thing to keep in mind is I've, I can call as nasty and big and loud as I possibly can.

But if you, if you walk a hundred yards and I've hunted with, I've had the privilege of hunting with the people who are, you know, known to be some of the best callers you've ever heard. But if you walk a hundred yards away and you listen to the elk bugle and you listen to that guy, Colin, and he's trying to match that bull, there's no comparison. The bull is still like even a regular bull.

five point young six whatever they still sound louder they sound bigger like as a as a hunter we you know we get make up in our mind what what you know what what the sound is that we're making but honestly there's no comparison to a real elk in the in the in the wild and um they have way more volume they have way more guttural sounds and we can just try our best

Yep. No, I'm, I'm in agreement. And that's always, you know, I get asked, we've been asked this question through, you know, a series of podcasts. It seems like what's the biggest mistake beginners. And, and normally I try to stay away from calls, you know, we're, we're tied to the call company and we love to teach people to use calls, but I honestly feel that

Calling is a small component of what makes the ultimate, you know, or a good elk hunter. But in this case, I think there's so much misinformation and people are so unconfident in themselves that they won't make a call. And then they're just doing all these other things to then get to the point, you know, you get to 90% and they're not willing to that last little bit. So I think it's, yeah, practice with calls, be confident, be willing to try to make the calls. And excuse me, remember you're out there

you're to have fun. You're, you're, you know, to try things like, right. I, I still every year, like I ain't did this in a while. Like, let's see if this call works. How's this, how are they going to react to this one? Like, yeah. Um, I just like to go out there and throw stuff out and learn as I'm on the ground. Now don't get me wrong. I'm trying to, you know, kill a bull at the end of this, but a lot of times we, we throw a little bit of everything out of them and see how they respond. So I can ultimately hopefully become a better elk hunter than I am today.

I will say though, aside from calling, here's another like big mistake. I think a lot of new hunters do. And I think seasoned vets will do this too. People get stuck in a rut. They'll be like, I got my spot here. I'm a good spot. I know there's elk there. I know there's elk that's been there and they will let the days tick by going back to that same spot over and over and over. And it's like,

I haven't heard an elk bugle in there for three days. I'm like, well, where else have you been? Well, nowhere. It just, I go back into the spot, you know, I killed an elk there last year and there's some tracks and, um, people get kind of stuck in this rut of where they want to, where they want to kill an elk. But, um,

Um, honestly, if you kind of go into a, into your spot within a day or so, you haven't heard any bugles or if, if that's your game, if you're trying to bugle, or maybe if you're glass and if you're trying to do a spot and stock, if you're not glassed up elk, I would definitely move on. Um, now that doesn't say you don't want to come back in a few days and maybe check it again. Cause elk do move around a lot. Sometimes they get on like a circuit pattern where they're there one day they leave and three or four days later, they'll come back.

Um, so you can sometimes catch them in those places. So, but don't get stuck in this rut of just going back to the same old spot and let your season tick away and be like, well, yeah, I went there. I've spent my whole seven days or 10 days there and we never did get one and we never really even got into elk, but they never branched out from that one little spot.

Just got to kind of branch out, man. Yep. Yep. And I say you can sum it all up. Like, don't put all your eggs in the one basket. It's helped a lot of tags stay unnotched for a long time. People are so set on camping in a certain meadow or by a certain lake or, you know, and they bring in their 10 days of food and it's like, no, you should have been out of there in day one with the elk sign you've seen or the action that you've seen or, you know, bounce back out and get out of there and go find elk that aren't harassed.

Yep. Absolutely. I think that's all we've got for questions. That's, that's all the questions today, huh? You didn't have any other little, little funny ones, uh, to, to throw out there. Okay. Well, I, I do, I'll ask a question for myself. Um, since Phelps is the Phelps signature diaphragm is on pace to beat the Maverick this year at the rate we're going, um, what, what do you plan on dressing up as this year? Is your, uh,

Oh, so we're doing this? Oh, now we are. Oh, really? I just implemented the new, I figured it was the five-year anniversary of the 2019 Hulk Hogan hunt. So out of a commemorative fifth-year anniversary, it was just automatically put back in. Well, explain to our listeners if they don't know what that's all about. All right. So if you want to get a laugh, in 2019, me and Dirk made a bet whose diaphragm would sell more. Yeah.

And Dirk barely won by the skin of his teeth. And so my punishment, I not,

was to dress up like Hulk Hogan and hunt for a full day in that outfit. And so I had drawn a coveted, uh, Wyoming tag and, um, got to hunt my first day that hunt and Hulk Hogan outfit. Well, my original plan was to go up on the mountain, hide until that day was over and then start hunting on day two. Well, luck would have it. I found a, a bowl up there that was wanting to play the game and ultimately ended up killing, um,

my bowl and bright yellow and red stretch pants a hulk hulkamania shirt and a yellow bandana and all that ended up on youtube for y'all to see so it's a real proud moment uh what what was the film called it was september mania or uh what was it yeah something like that there's a picture of jason on the thumbnail with these hulk hogan uh it looks real good real good

You know, it's funny, you know, we get one wholesale dealer order roll in and it's really loaded heavily on the pink line.

uh, Phelps calls and he's all of a sudden starting to count his money. You know, he's already starting to like, Oh yeah. Hey Dirk. Yeah. How about let's have a contest. Let's, let's see who sells them. I'm like, Phelps, you're so far behind that, that little bump in there in the road. That's just a speed bump. Like it's not the, it's not the summation of the last five. You're going to have to rally the junior high girls in your local area to start buying your calls again. Yeah.

No. Yeah. Listen, you know, the, the Maverick militia is a real, is the real deal. There's my people are out there and, and from what I can tell, this is going to be a really good bugling year. So they're probably going to load up real good on those, those diaphragms, even though they probably bought a lot last year and didn't have, didn't wear them out because they just last forever. And like the pink one, but. Gotcha. I see it.

I see how you're spinning this. But, but yeah, I don't know. I could probably think up something funny for you to, to wear after you lose. Um, maybe you should just go back to your Hulk Hogan suit. Um, it wasn't a good look. It probably still fits. Those seems, I mean, for a cheap Amazon outfit, like I'm real impressed by the seams on those pants. I was impressed by the scenes, the scenes that, that, uh, Dave frame was able to capture with you, you know, this good, nice, uh,

slow motion scenes of you moving through the forest in those tights. Yeah. You must do, were you doing those Brazilian butt lift workouts? Yeah. Remember the old tapes? I don't know if your mom had them, but like the old, like buns of steel when the old tapes came through. I don't tell anybody, but I got, I got into those and really toned her up. Grabbed a thigh master and worked on that a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. You were looking good. Yeah.

All right. Well, yeah, if you guys ever want to ask some more questions, just email ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com. And if you want to call in and leave a voice message on the super not-so-secret hotline,

The phone number is 208-219-7701. Leave a three minute message. Ask a question. For me, Phelps are one of our guests to answer. And we haven't had any of our guests on here to answer some of those yet. So maybe we can, you know, figure that out one of these days. Yeah, that'd be fun. Yeah. Thanks for listening, guys. We'll catch you on the next one.

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