Ep. 91: Packs
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As a guide and hunter, I've spent thousands of days in the field. This show is about translating my hard-won experiences into tips and tactics that'll get you closer to your ultimate goal, success in the field. I'm Remy Warren. This is Cutting the Distance. Welcome to Pack Week on the Podcast, everyone.

Really one of the integral pieces of gear to any Western or mountain hunt is a pack. It's with you nearly every step of the way, whether you're carrying gear in or packing out your meat. It's the one kind of piece of gear that tries to make something inherently uncomfortable, just more comfortable.

Throughout the year, I probably have a pack on more days than not. I actually just feel strange if I'm walking around in the woods without a pack on. And having spent so much time in various packs, I feel like there's a lot to learn and know when it comes to not only picking a pack, but utilizing a pack.

This week, I want to break down packs, the different types, and how to properly use them. I'll discuss everything from sizing and features to the optimal ways to load whatever style of pack you choose. Think of this as a deep dive on all things pack-related, from the pack-in to the pack-out. But first, I want to share a story of an elk hunt and a pack-out, and a case of FPS.

This hunt takes place in Western Montana, and it was actually one that was filmed for the Meat Eater TV show quite a few years ago. I think most people that listen to the podcast are pretty familiar with that show, especially because this podcast is in the Meat Eater Network. So maybe you've seen the episode, maybe you haven't. You could always go watch it. But I think the more fun story isn't necessarily the hunt story, but kind of the behind-the-scenes part that people really don't get to see.

On this particular hunt, Steve and I both had elk tags. I'd been guiding the whole season, packed out many bulls, seen many bulls get shot. And now it's pretty much the last week of the season. We had some, we were kind of actually hoping for, it was one of those years where you really want really bad weather and it was, it started to get bad, but then kind of cleared up. So we're kind of hoping for more migration. I wanted to hunt some areas that I'd hunted in the past where we've got into some good bulls.

And so the first day was kind of leading into that bad weather, but, um, we ended up going into the spot that I like to hunt and sure enough, we spotted a couple elk, a group of bulls off in the distance. We're like, all right, let's make a move. We get down in there. We're watching, you know, we watch them disappear behind this Ridge. And I know, okay, I've actually shot an elk like

like in this dang near same spot a year earlier, like almost, I mean, I would say within two or 300 yards of where these elk were. So it's like, all right, cool. I was, I was looking for a particular bull, but he wasn't there that day. And I wasn't going to be picky for those of you that know me. It's like, when it comes to the last week of the season, I just want to fill my freezer with some elk. So if it's got five or six points on its head and

or less as the week goes on. As my friend Mike likes to say, increase your success by lowering your standards. As the season progresses, I start with really wide expectations. And as it gets down to that last day, it just starts to narrow into whatever's available. But I kind of like to say, okay, I like at least six points on one side. It's kind of like a personal goal of mine. But really, as it gets down to that last week, pretty much anything legal is

tries to get a ride out in the backpack. So we see these bulls, Steve and I go down in there. There's like two ridges in between and they disappeared behind one. We're hoping that they pop out within range. So we get set up. No elk, no elk, no elk. I'm like, okay, are they coming out? So I actually walked back to where I could see above to see if they're still there. Go back, look, okay, they're still there. And then they disappeared. So now I hustle back to where they're all set up. I'm like, okay, they're still here. They should pop over.

We're set up the elk pop out. We're going to try to get a double, but Steve's like, ah, you shoot first. So I line up, shoot my bull. It goes down the other bull. Steve just wasn't in a really good position. He maybe had a shot, but then had to move up for a rest and spook the other elk. Um, especially with the gunshot and everything going on, got a little chaotic and he wasn't able to get a shot on that bull. So it's like, well, whatever. We got one bull down bird in hand.

go down to the elk and it was a pretty steep hillside. He took a pretty good tumble and actually I'm looking at the bull right here. I've yet to put his antlers back together, like fell. I've never seen this happen and broke one antler off at the pedicle, like right up against the base. Luckily, you know, the antler was just laying there and, uh, I probably through the breaking process, it slowed him down enough. He must've been on a pretty good tumble to not go all the way to the bottom, which I

He was about halfway to the bottom at this point. So we're like, sweet. We get some paracord, tie him up to a tree, and

start processing him. I figured, oh yeah, I'll be able to put these antlers back together. And when I get home, no big deal, just skullcap it. And it's been a project, one of those projects that I still haven't got to yet, but looking at it right now thinking, yeah, she'd probably get to that this year. Um, anyways, so we pack it up and on this trip, I was actually, uh, they had a new pack and they're like, Hey, you want to try this pack as a pack that I wanted to try? So I'm like, sweet. Yeah.

Love to try a new pack. I've like pretty much tried every pack ever, whether it's on some kind of hunt or even if it's not one that I had, I like to just like, I don't know, I'd be guiding like, Hey, let me try your pack this week. Just, just to see, you know, know what's out there and know what I like.

So I got this new pack. I'm just not real familiar with it. I've been using other packs that I'm real familiar with, packed out plenty elk. Actually the year before from this very spot, I packed out an entire bull, same size as this bull by myself in one trip. Well, I got it one trip from the semi downhill or slightly uphill parts. I ended up only being able to fit a

What I did was front shoulders, all the loose meat, head, mantlers, all that in the pack. And then I actually drug each quarter hair on with the hair side down. So I just drug it with paracord one in each arm because there was snow. So I could like drag it uphill.

It was a beast of a pack out, but I just did not. It was like storm moving in, did not feel like hiking all the way back to this spot from my camp. So I just thought, I'll just pack it all out in one trip. So the year before I'd pretty much carried an elk out of there myself. I had carried an elk out of there myself. So I thought, oh, this will be easy. Like we've got a bunch of guys splitting up the weight. Perfect.

So I load up the pack, everybody's starting to hike up the hill and I am just like dragging. It's like kicking my butt. And I'm like, this is terrible. Everything's just like slopping around. I had a serious case of what I call FPS floppy pack syndrome.

I'm watching everybody else just like hike up. And I'm like, this is less weight than I normally take. And I am, it is just, I feel like I'm falling over while I was falling over everything slopping around. But it's like one of those things where you load up your pack and you go,

Yeah. I just don't want to take the time to figure this thing out. Like they kind of showed me how to work it. Like you do this, you do this. Okay, cool. And I've got it. And the antlers are like on the back. Everything's the weight is like as far back as possible. Every time I walk, it's just constantly shifting whatever weights in there.

I'm like, this is the worst. So I get about a halfway up to the top and I just decide, okay, I can't do this. I sit down like I'm going to take 15 minutes here and figure this dang thing out. So, um,

I adjust the pack, put it back on, start walking night and day difference. Like I can't even describe that. I was like, this is, this should not be this hard. I've walked out of here and I'm thinking, you know, when you put stuff in your pack and you know, I just haven't really, you know, I've always had my packs like figured cause I've pretty familiar with them.

And then you put on a pack and it dawned on me how much just adjusting that pack made a difference. And then I just like...

trotted up the hill. No problem. Didn't feel like it was like I had taken a hundred pounds out of my pack and just left it on the hill, but everything was still there. Everything was in the pack. It was just adjusted right. And felt completely different. And later on that stone glacier pack became one of my favorite packs. I was cursing it the first 20 minutes with it.

And then once I realized, okay, how to use it, got rid of the flop, packed it right, use it how it was supposed to be used. It actually became the pack that I still use to this day. I really think the moral to the pack story is even the best packs used wrong, feel wrong.

Like packs can be uncomfortable and make it feel like there's so much weight and this is the worst thing ever, but they don't have to be.

It can be just a matter of how you use the pack, use it correctly. And the way that you pack things in the bag, that floppy pack syndrome is real. And I see it happen so many times, like, especially as a guide or even just like hiking around, running into hunters in the field. And you just look at the way their packs are set up and you think, man, that's going to be a struggle for this guy. Like I ran into a guy on a trail once, probably had a quarter in his pack, you know, what I wouldn't consider a lot of weight and just, he's just dying.

And I look and it's like his pack is not adjusted for him. His waist belt is essentially with that weight slid down and slid

like he didn't even notice that it was wrapped around too low and his legs and hip flexors are just working against this waist belt that's pressing against his legs, like almost holding his legs together. I was like, Hey, let me help you out. Let me just adjust some things here. Adjust this pack. He puts it on like light bulb clicked on. Oh my gosh, this is so easy. So a lot of pack problems, a lot of the strain, a lot of the stuff that just sucks about packs, uh,

is user error and can be easily fixed. But before we go into some of that, let's start real wide and let's just talk about packs in general and the three major types of packs. So the first type of pack is gonna be your external frame.

That's your like standard metal backpacking frame that you see. It's probably the oldest version of just a heavy freighter pack. Some examples, Barney's of Alaska makes a great one of those. The Outdoorsman makes one that's polycarbonate kind of frame, but I would still consider that external frame. Kelty, you know, back in the day, they had a freighter pack. Cabela's had like their old school outfitter pack.

These packs have been used in around forever. They're really good. I would say they're really strong at carrying a lot of weight. Their downside would be super bulky, already heavy, but I mean, they're just meant to carry lots of heavy stuff. And they still do work. I would say the next type is probably...

What I would consider the now gold standard, the internal frame. The internal frame is similar to the external frame, but instead of that external where the bag is on the, I would say like where the bag is on the inside of the frame, the bag attaches to the frame on the external frame, obviously based on the name internal. So it still has stays of a frame, but the frame is inside the structure of the pack bag.

These are, I mean, this is like your Stone Glacier. There's Exo, Mystery Ranch, Kefaru. All those are pretty much internal frame type.

I have pretty much switched exclusively to the Stone Glacier bags after literally that trip that I told you about was the start of my, I switched from external type frames to internal frame. And that trip that I talked about in the story was that kind of catalyst that got me to switch because I realized, wow, these are a lot lighter to start off. So when I'm going in, it's a lot lighter. It's a little bit more streamlined. I can, I can cinch it down more. It's more quiet and

There's a lot of benefits to that internal frame pack. And so I switched from previously doing a lot of external frame packs and a mixture of other internal frames to going fully on the internal frame bus. And I think that that's the way a lot of packs are now. The benefits of it are they start out lighter. You can still carry a lot of weight and they're a little more streamlined for moving through timber, stocking, or just using when there's nothing in it.

Now, the third type of pack would be the no frame pack.

This is your standard JanSport, just floppy bag. I mean, you see these every once in a while, companies come out with them and you're like, Ooh, this looks great. Or it's comfortable or whatever. I mean, these just are garbage. That's the way I see it. Like if it's got no kind of frame, it's probably no good. Now, one thing I should mention with the internal frame and external frame, they all pretty much have waist belts as well. So, or hip belts.

that kind of help distribute the weight to your legs. And then I guess there's a bonus type of pack, which would be the fanny pack or as the Aussie friends call it, a bum bag.

I would say if it was between a no frame backpack or a fanny pack, 100% go with the fanny pack, go with the bum bag. It's like actually pretty good for day hunt type stuff because it just puts all the weight immediately on your hips and on your waist. Your legs are carrying it, not necessarily your shoulders. Whereas the no frame bag is just straight on your shoulders. You're putting like a lot of pressure and weight on a very, um, I would say not so strong portion of your body when you could just carry everything with your legs. Um,

And the way you use that bum bag for the most time, like I've used that type of pack system. And when it comes to packing out, then you just make a backpack out of whatever you shoot, tie the legs together, sling it over your shoulder, carry the whole animal out. Works really great on like day trips and flat country. Yeah, it's not so bad, but also gives you an extra place to store stuff. So that'd be the bonus bag, but I won't talk too much about those.

So now that we kind of understand the types of bags, you know, you can decide, and I'm going to go into like a little bit of detail on the way to pack both the internal and external frame. But before we like talk about packing it, one of the questions I get asked so much is like what pack size, right?

Honestly, my theory has always been the bigger, the better. But I like something that collapses to be smaller. And you also have to be realistic with yourself. What type of person are you? How much weight are you going to be carrying? If you're a guy that's like, hey, I'm not going to carry that much weight, even on the packout, I'd rather take four trips than one heavy trip.

If that's you, then go with the smaller pack bag. It's going to be lighter starting off, but I would say at a minimum, I like a 3,200 cubic type pack. And then for me, like if somebody's like, Oh, what size pack bag do you want? I would say 6,400.

Um, it's pretty solid if it's light enough as the pack bag gets bigger, it obviously gets heavier. It gets more bulky. A couple of my favorites, the stone glacier sky talus is pretty good, like for back country overnight trips. But even when I'm just day hunting, I'll just cinch that thing down a little bit smaller, make it not so big. And it's not

not heavy enough to really be that big of a deal. Now, when I'm doing a lot of guiding, I know, okay, well, if we get something, we're going to come back with some people. We might just make one trip out from there. A 3200 is fine. You can fit an elk quarter in there. You could fit, you know, all your gear. It's a lot lighter bag, maybe a little more streamlined, especially if you're going to be like doing some sneaking bow hunting and you've got your pack on the whole time.

It does make a difference to have a smaller pack when you're stocking and moving around. So you want to kind of think about, okay, what kind of hunting do I do? Am I doing a lot of long stay overnight stuff? How much room am I going to need? That 3,200 is on the small side, but you can definitely put all your stuff in it, especially if the bag like extends from the frame where you can maybe slide some stuff in that freighter shelf, like

on the pack in food and other stuff, stuff that's also going to shrink as you go on. So like your food, if I've got the 3200, I just want to go kind of lightweight streamline, as long as I can, there's places where I can put more bulky gear that's not super heavy, I'll have enough room for it. But you know, if you're gonna like, say, Hey, I want one pack that does everything.

Go bigger, go, you know, a little bit bigger. It's like if you're, if I was to build another garage, I don't think you could ever build a garage big enough. And I think that packs are kind of similar in my mind that way. I was like, I like to have that extra room. There's people that are the opposite. They just want to be super efficient and don't need extra room. But for me, it's like, ah, just rather, uh,

have the extra room in case I need it. So that's the thought on the pack sizes. Now, when you're talking about pack, one thing you have to think about is weight. So you want to think about not only the weight of the pack and the weight of the things that you're carrying, but also how much you're going to pack out. That's another question I guess. Like how much do you carry when you're packing out?

Or when you're hiking around, like I've weighed my pack, even, I don't know what it is. Like if I'm packing into the back country for a week or whatever, my packs normally like 45 pounds. If I'm day hunting, I swear my packs like 30 pounds. And it's only because when I'm like going on a single day trip, I'm actually carrying different stuff, but heavier stuff. So I've got a bigger spotting scope. I've maybe got the heavier tripod. I maybe have an extra pair out like

higher power optics, or I've got more water and I'm not necessarily carrying a water filter, or I've got just random things that are like more creature comfort stuff, but help and aid in the hunt for like finding things. But it seems like, you know, most day packs are around that 20 pound mark. I don't know. It just depends what you've got, you know, type of year, time of season. Sometimes my day pack is just barely anything in it. Water, lunch, maybe small, very small first aid kit.

and, you know, maybe a jacket or extra gloves and something to a knife and whatever, you know, like very minimal. Um, so it just depends. I, I kind of vary on the gear that I take, depending on the type of hunt, how long I'm going to be, how far I'm going, what time of year it is. Now, when it comes to packing out, I mean, I would say your average pack out weights, it just depends what you're hunting. Let's say we're hunting elk, um, on the light side, you know, you gotta be prepared to carry probably 75 pounds. I tend to, um,

pack more than I should. I mean, a hundred pounds is not, I don't find that a lot, but I think that that's kind of like a gold standard of you want to pack that could at least handle a hundred pounds.

It depends how big you are and how many dead brain cells you have. If you're like me, I'm pretty sure there's like a part of my brain where the cells just died and keep me doing stupid stuff. Like when I was 18, I was just like, yeah, I'll carry that whole elk in my pack. And it's great. And as I weighed like 160 pounds and I'd carry 170 pounds and I just didn't even think about it because I was like, I got to do this myself. I don't want to carry, come back here. This would suck. I'll just do it in one trip.

And then every year I tell myself, this is just me talking about me, but every year I tell myself, I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to be super sensible. I'm going to carry just a quarter. And then I get there and I'm like, yeah, okay. Take a hind quarter and a front shoulder. Cause that's just half of the trips. Okay. Or one less trip. But every year I keep trying to talk myself into carrying less and I ended up not doing that.

So I like to just know that I've got a pack that can handle heavy weight, but also, you know, to handle that more weight, you need more volume. One thing I would say is, you know, if you don't want to put yourself in that position, which I started to do recently is like, Hey, I'll just take a smaller pack. Then I can't fit all that stuff in there. So my pack ends up being that 75 to 80 pound range of,

You know, and a good size bull elk, the quarters are about, a hind quarter is about 70 pounds or like average size. I've weighed, you know, quite a few and I've got back just to know. And then I feel like two front shoulders kind of also hit that. They're about 25 to 30 pounds each, you know, so...

If you can, the back straps, I think come out to like, I can't remember, but probably like 25, 30 pounds. So you kind of split up the weight that way. Sometimes I'll take that front shoulder and a hind quarter. So that's about that hundred pound range. And then if you throw in a back strap, you kind of start to hit that 110, 120 pound with your gear kind of thing. I think most people kind of overestimate the weight of their pack or a lot of people. So there's a lot of times where you're carrying 75, 80 pounds. You're like, God, this is 150 pounds.

And then you put it on a scale and you're like, ah, nope, not, but I'll have to, I've got a picture of just like the last super heavy pack. It was like, sometimes you'll just overload it and then be hand carrying stuff and stuff strapped all over. Um, but if you're realistic about the amount of weight that you want to carry, um,

I would say like, if you don't do this all the time, you don't have dead brain cells. You don't need to kill yourself doing it. 75 pounds is pretty like standard, fairly easy getting, get out, move quick, not really hurt and destroy your body. So just something to think about, but the type of weights that you might be carrying or the type of packs, you know, you want something that's super durable that can hold that kind of weight for a prolonged period of time.

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This is Brent Reeves from This Country Life. What makes South Dakota the greatest for pheasant hunting? With over 1.2 million pheasants harvested last year, South Dakota boasts the highest population of pheasants in the nation. In fact, you'd have to add up the total harvest from neighboring states just to get that many birds.

There's also millions of wide open acres chock full of different landscapes, meaning the hunt in one county is often completely different from just a few counties over. But what really makes South Dakota the greatest goes way beyond just hunting a colorful bird. It's the pursuit of something more like the camaraderie that awaits all kinds of hunters from all walks of life and partaking in South Dakota tradition over 100 years in the making.

It's about taking the greatest shots and watching your dog work the greatest fields in the greatest lands, carrying on the greatest heritage and making the greatest memories. So what are you waiting for? From the rush of the flush to the stories at the end of the day, experience a thrill like no other. Learn how at huntthegreatest.com. So I think another thing to think about is just like pack features, right?

I really, you got to know what kind of person you are. There's a lot of personal preference. Are you a pocket person or are you just kind of like you'd rather have it light and not necessarily so much going on? I personally like fewer pockets. I like

to organize my pack internally. So I do use like little, I guess it's like parachute material bags and I just separate things that way. So I've got one that's all processing stuff. It's got game bags, knife, knife sharpener, and then maybe a multi-tool in my pocket and my pants. Also, I like two pockets. So I like a lid or something where I can put things that I need to get to quick. Then I like the main bag where I could put meat, all my gear, whatever, jacket, extra things. And then I

The only other pockets I would maybe like would be like something to hold a spotting scope and somewhere to strap a tripod and a water bottle to the outside, like ease of use, but not necessarily like a bunch of pockets inside. Now there's other, like my dad loves pockets. He loves to like open his pack and see 700 pockets in there and every pocket adds weight, but that's just like what he likes. I'm kind of trying to transition him into a BLS pocket guy, but

I don't even, he just likes to lose stuff in his pack, but that's the kind of guy he is. Now I'm not, I'm not trying to knock anybody that likes pockets. Cause I,

Hey, we, you know, it's like the straight verse angled spotting scope type thing. Everybody's got their own personal preference and different strokes for different blokes. So whatever you like, but I like to kind of keep the pack a little bit lighter, fewer pockets, just enough, like where there's organization and I can get to certain things quick, but not so many that it gets distracting and I can't find things. Yeah.

Now, if we're talking about features of pack, this would be the only must have feature that I think like if your pack doesn't have this, it should. This is probably the most important. And I've owned packs that don't have this feature and immediately got rid of them once I realized they didn't fit.

The probably key feature is a torso adjustment. The key to a comfortable pack, the key to carrying a lot of weight, the key to day in, day out, it working for you is the freaking thing has to fit you. It's like, imagine going on a hunt and you're a size small, even though most people are not, but, and you're going to wear a triple XL size pants and jacket and

It's going to be very, very uncomfortable. But people get packs and they just think like one size fits all. And it's probably the thing that needs to be most custom. You'd be better off being a size small wearing triple X pants and having a pack that fits than the other way around. So what I mean by a torso adjustment, that's not actually the waist belt. We're just talking about...

being able to move the distance from where your waist belt is to where your shoulder straps are. So it's on the back, like on the body of the pack itself. And those two things should be able to move together or move away and be set in a certain place. So we're talking about your torso height, like from your, the top of your hips, your tailbone up to your shoulders, everybody's torsos a little bit different. Some people like me, I've got really, really long legs and a fairly short torso for my like compared to everything else.

I've got friends that are normal leg height, long torso, or everything's the same, very standard, normal leg length, normal torso length. But that pack needs to fit that torso because the integrity of a pack, the reason that a framed pack works is what it's doing is it's actually putting that weight not on your shoulders, but into your hips.

So your legs carry the weight. I mean, your legs are designed to carry a lot more weight than you think. I mean, think about power lifters in a gym. You can only curl so much. You can only pull down so much with your arms. But I mean, you can lift multiple times your body weight with your legs. It's because they're just so strong. They're designed for that. They're moving all the time. It's a muscle that even if you were fairly sedentary, as long as you walk around, you're using it, you're flexing it, you're getting it stronger.

Um, and on a hunt you're especially it's, it's your mode of transportation. So you want that weight to be in your legs. You want to carry it with your legs. And that's the key to getting your pack set up is being able to distribute that weight. You want 80% of that pack weight in your legs, strongest part of your body.

So we're going to talk about now how to fit the pack to you. And every time you put a pack on new pack, whatever, you're going to first make this torso adjustments. So the top of the shoulder strap and where that waist belt, that waist belt should run through the center of your hip bones. So if

So if you kind of go from your belly button straight out to your, that's your hip bone, you feel it like in there, you go, okay, the pack should be the center of that band should be on the center of that hip bone. Um, and then I like that, you know, the waist belt clip to be kind of just below my belly button, but I want that weight to be kind of centered over my hips. So when you kind of fit a pack, when you put it on, you're going to work from the bottom up. So the waist belt up,

So the first thing you're going to do is you're going to get that waist, the torso, right? And that once you set that should be good forever, you know, unless I don't know, it just doesn't really change that much. So now you'll put your waist belt on, you'll cinch that waist belt down and that you want that fairly tight because that's where all the weight's going to be. I mean, you can almost, when you put your pack on those straps, like you get in there, you cinch that waist belt, you want to wear those pack, like the, the shoulder straps on

aren't necessarily even really on your shoulders at this point. Like, yeah, okay, there's all the weight in my hips. Now I'm going to just kind of distribute it, take 20% into my shoulders. So now we're going to move up. So your shoulder straps should be kind of fairly loose. You can put the shoulder straps on and now cinch those down. You want them snug where it's like taking a little bit of the weight, but also you're still feeling that weight into the waist belt, into your hips. And then the next adjustment is going to be the load lifter. So that's above the shoulder straps.

It's kind of like that top one above the shoulder strap that goes to the pack. And what that does is that pulls the pack forward. So it's pulling it, snugging it closer to your body, depending on the type of pack you have. And we'll get a little more in depth here in a second. External frame pack, you can actually leave the load lifters a little further back on the internal. I like to kind of bring those load lifters forward.

a little bit tighter. What I've found is like, once that tops towards you on an internal frame pack, it kind of sucks the pack towards your body, which is the best weight distribution for an internal frame. Whereas on an external frame, it kind of, if that weight falls back slightly, it actually pushes more weight into the hips and, uh, kind of tends to be a little less, uh,

floppy a little bit more weight distribution. But what you're doing with that load lifter is just kind of killing that flop, you don't want things moving around. If your pack sliding around, it's just working way too many muscles way too fast, and actually going to burn you out a lot quicker. So now let's get into loading your pack. So an external frame is really good for just like if you just want to haul a lot of weight. It's really good because what it does is it takes that frame and it actually just drives that weight from that pack

right into your hips. But to work properly, an external frame is better loaded, slightly top heavy. So not all the way up high where it's all the weights above your head, but

It tends to, um, work better when there's like weight higher in the pack. So what I see a lot of guys do is they got an external frame. They throw all the quarters like meat side down on the bottom and that's great. But what it's doing is it's actually not pulling the pack slightly away from your body and pushing it into your hips. It's kind of actually just putting all the weight straight down. So it's, it's like all in your hips, but not

balanced correctly. What I do when I've got an external frame and I'm carrying quite a bit of stuff, I'd put maybe some more light gear on the bottom and then maybe one quarter down on that. So it's slightly above the bottom, not crazy. And then sometimes if I'm doing like two quarters, let's say deer or whatever, I'll flip like the front quarters up or one hind quarter up, like where it's the

the bottom part of the leg, like the, the less meat side. So like the ham is high, like alternate them. So one's down, one's up. That kind of puts more weight up higher.

I wouldn't say it's the opposite with an internal frame, but with an internal frame, you got to think, okay, that frames in the back of the pack bag and then going straight down to the pack belt. So the best way to distribute weight in an internal frame is actually keeping it like closer to your body. So I think of packing an internal frame pack, like

If you were to lay the part that goes against your body on the ground, packing it from the ground up. So you don't want weight out on the internal frame. You want weight closer to your body. So that's why pulling those load lifters like a little bit tighter on that will kind of help center that weight close to your body.

before you're packing out any meat or anything, when I pack everything, I try to put the light stuff on the outside of the pack and then the heavier stuff closer to my body. So I kind of like lay it down, pack the stuff in. I don't necessarily think of it packing like heavy stuff at the bottom, heavy stuff at the top. I think of packing heavy stuff closest to my body and then the lighter stuff further out. Um, a lot of internal frame packs actually have a zip where you can kind of unzip and then pack it that way.

you're going to get a lot better balance. Now when it comes to packing out meat or whatever, you just want it, you know, tight and close to your body. I tend to find that, you know, you could go a little bit lower with the like heavier weight when it comes to the packout. I mean, sometimes there's only one way it fits in and it's like, okay, all the weights down lower, but the internal frame tends to distribute lower weight better than an external frame. So that's the two different ways that you would pack that external frame. You kind of pack from the

bottom up where you want most of the weight slightly high of center. And like if it was vertical sitting on you from light at the bottom, more weight in the center, and then a little bit of weight at the top. And then the opposite internal frame, you want to pack horizontally with the weight close to the body and then go out with the lighter weight.

The last thing with a pack is when you're packing out meat, you know, there's a couple options. You've got like frame pack outs or just putting it in the bag. I like to put all the meat in the bag. There's a lot of guys that like to just pack with the frame. You save a lot of weight that way. But for me, I just like being everything really tight and secure. I just kind of actually use my bag, like the bag of the pack to pack everything out in. And then I just find ways and places to stuff all the extra gear.

I've actually got where you can kind of pull away. You've got a load shelf in there. I'll put like, that's great for a quarter and then you don't have to take your other gear out. So it just depends like what I'm packing and how I use it. That's a more simple way. If I'm just going in for a pack out some days, I know, Hey, I've just got one quarter or two quarters, whatever. Sometimes I'll just go in with just my frame itself. It's a really nice way to kind of go in lightweight, just bring what you need and not necessarily have to carry the extra weight of the pack bag itself.

That's just something to think about. And there's a lot of guys too, that maybe hunt with a lighter day pack. And then they've got more stout pack at the truck that they get. I personally like to be able to just take a good load in. Like when I'm hunting, I shoot something. I'm definitely packing out right then and there. I like to minimize my trips. So I like to have kind of whatever I'm planning on packing out in is what I'm hunting in 90% of the time.

Now, the last thing we'll talk about would be accessories for a pack. I think these are just kind of up to each person, but there's a few things, a few items to go with my pack that I kind of always have. One would be extra cordage or like webbing, anything to secure that load. Because like I said, the worst thing with a pack is just that floppy pack syndrome that where that pack is just wiggling around, burning out your muscles in a short amount of time. So I've got like, kind of like what you'd see,

you know, a little buckle on it. Um, I get them at like climbing stores. I don't know. There's, you could pretty much Amazon wherever, um, just like extra straps that look almost like pack buckle straps where you could wrap it around the pack, um, help cinch the antlers down, uh, anything like paracord or whatever. Sometimes the buckles work really good because you don't have to worry about having somewhere to tie it to. Um, it's just nice to like, you could wrap it around the pack or add it to a buckle or something like that.

Sometimes I'll buy extra buckles for my pack and then get extra lengths of cord or like webbing that fit those buckles. So I can just readjust the way that the pack's even designed just based on what I'm putting on it. Sometimes you got to strap stuff to the outside. Sometimes the antlers are awkward. So that always helps. Another thing that I always have, I just a garbage bag in my like a contractor style bag because I like to keep my pack bag clean. I've talked about it, but

If you're cooling your meat down, when you stop and you hang it and everything's right, it's fine to put in plastic. Your bag is not going to breathe any better for the most part. It's just going to get soaked in blood. All your gear is going to get bloody, messy, smell bad, especially if it starts to rain and other things, and it's just going to attract the bears and stuff like that. So I just like to keep my pack clean. So I always have a little garbage bag in there. And then something to think about too, when you're one of the hard parts, like killing that flop, getting everything that weight tight and centered, when you're

One thing that's hard is packing out antlers. The handlers are awkward So there's a couple ways a couple strategies that I do I'll carry maybe an extra bag the first technique is good But it can be dangerous and kind of catch on things also like other hunters, you know Sometimes you'll see like antlers up on smaller mule deer or whatever if I'm in a place where it's like hey It's an archery season in backcountry. Heck. Yeah, I just put the antlers face up and

at the top of my pack and then strap my hood over the top of it. Keeps it nice and centered. It doesn't bounce around, especially if they're like velvet or something like that. You don't early season archery mule deer. You don't want them rubbing on anything. So that's, that's a good technique. Um, but that doesn't work for everything. You know, maybe there's times where you're like, dude, this is the pumpkin patch out here. If I've got antlers above my head in a Brown pack, I'm definitely getting shot. So those situations go antlers down. You just want to make sure that

And however you're carrying them, the antlers, if you fall or whatever, aren't going to poke you in any way.

Another way that I'll do is I'll put like a garbage sack over the skull. If I, if I'm going to do a Euro, take the whole skull out. Otherwise I bring a saw and skull cap it, but I'll just put it kind of like over my shoulders forward, especially with elk where I'm like holding the antlers down in front of me. It puts a lot of extra weight on the shoulders, but it can be an okay way where you can take it on and off. But I'd say the best way is like, if you can slash it to your pack, but not having weight too far back, a good way to deal with antlers is you can

The same way that I would do if I'm packing horses. So you think about like, if you got an elk rack on a horse, what you don't want is you need to keep it up so it doesn't slide down. So it doesn't hit the horse on the side. So what I'll do is I'll pack it on the top.

And then I'll run a stick between the antlers that lays across the saddlebags or something like that. So it keeps the antlers up. I do the same thing on my pack. I'll either use my trekking pole or whatever, use some cordage. So you got to think you're running a bar, a stick, maybe cut a stick. I mean, I cut a stick a lot and you run it between the antlers and you put that on the outside of the pack. So the antlers can be facedown.

the skull part or whatever would be up, strap that on, and then it doesn't swing forward, but you've got it kind of like where it keeps those antlers from poking forward too much. It's a really good way to kind of keep it centered. And then you can kind of still sit down like that too, if you find the right stick or rock when you need to take a break. And it also kind of holds the pack up. One last thing I will say when it comes to getting up with a heavy pack on is

here's, here's the, my patented philosophy. You put the pack on, you sit yourself and I see like people trying to help other people up or whatever. I mean, or like hold the pack, hold the heavy pack. If you've got a real heavy pack on, don't be holding the pack for your buddy to get into. Just everybody do themselves. You got to be able to get up on your own or like in this way. And I found that this is the best way to get up with a heavy pack. You could be assisted or whatever, have the pack on the ground and

You get into the pack. You first, you know, you tighten your waist belt. You kind of do everything. You go through the motions of putting the pack on. So waist belt first while on the ground, then pack straps, tighten your shoulder straps. And then what I like to do is if you need help, if you can help each other out, cool. But I think the best way is to roll over. So you're like on all fours facing the ground and

And then stand up from there. Use your legs to stand up. I mean, I've seen people get injured, just like trying to pull each other up, trying to whatever, just help them get over into that position on your knees or whatever, and then power up and stand up from there one leg at a time.

I mean, I can easily get my body weight or more off the ground by myself with that way. You're using the correct muscles. You aren't straining or hurting anybody else. I mean, most pack out injuries are probably somebody helping someone else get up or getting into the pack a funny way or trying to get up strange. So,

That's the best way to do it. That's the best way that I've found. Another good option too, if you've got a heavy pack, using hiking, trekking poles, cutting a stick, something. What that does is it just helps with your balance. It helps your core out. It helps your footing. It helps everything and takes a lot of that felt weight off. I mean, I've seen studies as much as 30, 40% of the felt weight can be distributed by

kind of going what I would say four wheel drive, having two sticks to help you, especially with a large pack and steep terrain. So,

just something to think about. I hope that that kind of covered all, a lot of the basics of packs, pack types and pack outs, how to load a pack. And, um, there's just, there's so many little things that a lot of people, especially those that aren't used to it, don't really think about. And then they get out there and then you're the guy on the trail that's got a heavy weight on and your pack belts holding your hip flexors down and the packs not fit. And you're just like floppy pack syndrome. And you're just burning out. Uh, when it's

something that is designed to make that task a heck of a lot easier. If used right, will make that task a heck of a lot easier. I hope you enjoyed that podcast. If you did, you know, feel free to share it with your friends, leave a comment or rating. Actually, last night was going through some of the comments and stuff. And I just thank you guys so much. Some of those comments, I mean, I do read them. They mean a lot to me. It's just like,

kind of the fuel for me when I just like got up this morning, I'm like, yes, I'm excited to record another podcast because people are enjoying them. So I really thank you guys so much for, for that, for those comments, for those ratings, for sharing the podcast with your friends and hunting buddies and whatever. So,

Thank you guys so much. It really does mean a lot to me. And next week is going to be all about listeners. It's going to be our Q&A. So make sure to shoot over those questions. I've been getting a lot. I've got a good list going already. Some stuff that we've talked about, some spring stuff, all kinds of cool stuff. So thank you guys for shooting those over. As always, feel free to reach out via social media at remywarren on Instagram.

primarily way that I try to communicate with people. So you can always send me a message there, tag me and stuff, kind of keep up to date with whatever I'm doing there, kind of all social media things, YouTube, whatever. But those are the best ways to reach out. So shoot me a message if you got questions. And also those questions, if I don't answer your specific question next week, it just helps me build out the kind of things that... Honestly, this

podcasts that I talked about today is like one of those things that I probably wouldn't have talked about, but it's so many questions on it. People like asking, Hey, can you do a podcast on this? Hey, can you do that? You talked about packs. Can you mention this? So I just, I keep note of those things. I've got a little, uh, in my phone, I've got a little memo sheet. And when I get things, I save them in there. I,

I mean, honestly, like I tried to build it out and a lot of this stuff is like, wow, I didn't realize, you know, I mean, there's stuff that I take for granted. It's just like stuff that I've over the years kind of in my mind has become common sense. And then I start talking about it. I'm like, yeah, most people wouldn't know this. And that's the kind of cool like discoveries that I like to find. And that just comes from the questions that you guys send me. So keep those coming. And I think that just packs up this week's podcast.

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