Searching For Answers: The Murder of Robert Joyal, Part One
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This is Murder, She Told, true crime stories from Maine, New England, and small town USA. I'm your host, Kristen Seavey. You can connect with me and suggest your hometown crime at MurderSheTold.com and follow on Instagram at MurderSheToldPodcast.

Despite their seven-year age difference, Robert Joyle was a hell of an older brother. And to Mark, Robert was his hero. He protected him, believed in him, and comforted him.

Today, in his 30s, more than 20 years later, Mark's memories of Robert's larger-than-life personality and charm remain vivid. And he fondly recalls a time when Robert made him feel like a rock star. I remember one time I was sitting in the house in Texas and his friend came over and, you

They were, like, gonna leave to go play basketball somewhere. And he just sort of, like, saw me sitting in the living room by myself and was like... All of a sudden, you could see he just changed his plans. He was like, hey, uh... Hey, Mark, you wanna shoot hoops? And his friend looked at him like, I thought we were leaving. And he was like, no, I think we'll just play here. Mark, you wanna come outside? Well, yeah. And...

I remember we played a game called 21 in a basketball game. We used to play that all the time. And again, he just had this weird... He was really good at letting me win, but not making me feel like he gave it to me. So he blocked my shot a couple times.

But he'd also bump his friend out of the way when he thought his friend was going to steal the ball from me. And he'd go, oh, man, good move, Mark. And I'd score. So I remember like this one game was like the most fun I ever had in my life. And it was just we just played basketball under the stars in our driveway. It was me, my brother and his friend. I think it was his friend, Chris. He made a point of, you know, bringing me in to those types of things.

The driveway that Mark's talking about is in Houston, Texas, where he, his brother, and his parents were living together. They had just moved from Massachusetts, away from their extended family, and set out to forge a new life for themselves in the Lone Star State. My

My dad had gotten a job down there with his father. His father owned a company. They sold fiberglass grating that was used for flooring and warehouses and stuff. But it was a good job. My dad took it. So that's where we ended up. And we lived in this little suburb right outside the city. It's called Clear Lake. And Houston is massive. If you drove from one end of Maine to...

to Rhode Island, that would get you through Houston and maybe to Dallas. But it's such a big area. So we lived in this little cookie-cutter neighborhood with other kids on the street that we were all friends with. Rob's best friend Joe lived on the corner of the road, and it was like four houses down from us. And his little brothers were my best friends.

You know, we lived in this modest little house in a sort of lower middle class neighborhood. Houston's interesting, like that whole area, because it's like there's so many people there that you can drive 10 minutes and they have to have another elementary school because there's so many kids, they can't fit them all. Like, so not even all the kids in Clear Lake went to Clear Lake. Some had spilled over into other schools and stuff.

I mean, I had kids in my elementary class that were from Egypt and Mexico City, France. Like, it was so diverse. And then I moved to Maine, and it was just like, you know, the most outlandish place somebody had been was like Saco. And I was, you know, this kid from Houston, so obviously that was pretty weird. But Houston, we just, Rob really loved being a Texan. Like, he fit in. You know, he loved football, and it became this identity and...

His best friend lived down the road, and I was best friends with his best friend's little brothers, and we just had a nice little thing going for quite a while. Whether or not they're willing to admit it, every teenager wants to feel a sense of belonging. And though it wouldn't last, in Texas, football was Rob's life.

It was where he belonged. After playing JV as a freshman, he was moved up to varsity as a sophomore, a running back for the Clear Lake Falcons. He fit in perfectly amongst the rugged teenage athletes in a world where football was king and its star players, celebrities.

When we got into Houston, I think he realized that this football thing really worked for him. He got to go out there and be a man's man. He got to hit people and run through people. He didn't like being defined by his height, so he really liked to make sure that he didn't back down from people. Football was a great way to do that because you'd have these monsters coming in to tackle him. He was a running back.

And he could plow through them because he was just a brick house and he was fast. So he got all this confidence built and he got more popular and girls liked him. And, you know, he was so proud of his jersey and proud of being on a football team. And it really mixed well with his personality. Mark told me of the time when they saw Rob score three touchdowns in one game. And the first thing he did when it ended was run to the sidelines to give his mother a hug.

Rob had a place in the school ecosystem where he belonged. A place where he felt seen. A place where he could apply his energy. Rob was somebody who stepped up to a challenge, and as Mark mentioned, he wouldn't back down no matter what. Football was the perfect outlet for a kid like Robert Joyle.

But part of being on a prestigious team meant keeping up with school, and when trouble hit junior year, Rob was ultimately kicked off the team and demoted to JV as a consequence. Shortly after that, Rob quit football. Suddenly, Rob didn't have a place anymore, and the once-popular athlete no longer fit in where he best belonged.

Just the fact that after he was kicked off the team, he sort of fell apart just kind of really reinforces how important that was to him. And like I said, when we moved down there, he really embraced being a Texan. He really embraced being a football player.

and being a scrappy, tough little guy that wasn't afraid of anybody. And he always was flirting with girls and stuff and football got him definitely, I'm sure made him more popular with, with girls in school and all that stuff.

So he just embraced it and it became his life and it was a really good outlet for him. And he wrote that for a while, all through middle school and then into high school. And it wasn't until his junior year when his grades started to slip and that's when he got kicked off the team.

Before Rob found football, before he became a Texan, he lived in Massachusetts. His early childhood was spent growing up on Cape Cod, Mecca for the Joyal family. Rob had a whole other life outside of his one in Texas. At first, Texas seemed to work out for him. It seemed that Rob fit in just about anywhere he went.

You know, Houston and Cape Cod are just so different. And I think when he went back there later on, he really brought with him, hey, I'm the kid who made it in the city. And now I'm up here with you guys who, you know, aren't as well-traveled as I am. So let me tell you how the real world works. And yeah, he grew up on the streets. No, but I think, you know, the same way that when I moved here, people were like, wow, do you ride a horse to school?

And I was like, no, my dad has a Subaru. And they're like, oh my God, he drives a car. Like, this is amazing. I didn't know people from Texas did that. And so I think even on Cape Cod, people were like, so you live in,

in the city and you have to walk to school. And have you ever seen, you know, gone to a football game? Have I gone to a football game? Kid, I am the football game. Okay. I'm on the varsity team, not to brag. And then we go in the city and we hang out with all our city folk that are probably a little bit tougher than you guys are not to brag. Like, I think that was kind of how he carried it himself. And so he kind of go there and talk a big game and then he could go back to Texas and

tell people he's a surfer because he was. You know, he'd go on Cape Cod, he'd surf, he'd do all the things that Cape Cod kids did. And then when he'd go to Houston, he'd do all the things that Houston kids did. But when he was in Houston, he wasn't just a football player. He was also a surfer. And when he went to Cape Cod, he wasn't just a local Cape Cod surfer. He was also a varsity football player in Texas football.

He got to use that as leverage. And I'm sure he used that to pick up girls and stuff, too.

Mark remembers returning to Cape Cod for vacation and spending time with family every Christmas and summer. To shake things up and to encourage Rob to refocus on school, his parents moved him back to Massachusetts to live with his grandparents and attend Nauset High School to see if that would be a better fit than Clear Lake High. But ultimately, Rob ended up returning to Clear Lake and just summering in Cape Cod.

Again, Rob found his place while working a seasonal beachside gig where there was no shortage of girls and adults to charm and win over. Rob was having the time of his life. He had a really good gig when it was summer. He would go and he would work for this place called the Barley Neck Inn. And it was right down the road from where my grandparents lived. And

We knew the owners and the guy who owned it really liked Rob. I think he saw a lot of himself in Rob. I believe his name was Joe. And Joe was this successful Cape Codder and he built this beautiful old inn. And then he turned part of it into like a dining room. And then part of it was into like a restaurant bar, live music kind of thing. And then eventually he,

built all these little like condos and apartments around there. But he gave Rob a summer job as a bus boy. And Joe loved Rob. He thought he was hilarious. And I think he related to him. And Joe's wife, Kathy, also really liked Rob. They just thought he was such a good kid. But, you know, he was a kid. He did dumb stuff. And

You know, they knew that, you know, he was sneaking out and partying and all that stuff. But he always showed up to work and tried hard and he was very polite. And they were really sweet. He moved, I forget what else he did there. I know he was a busboy. He may have been a host at one point or waiter. But he made really good money, obviously, Cape Cod and tourism. So he worked there most summers and everything.

Joe and Kathy were really nice to him and they really liked him. And, um, they were really nice to our family, especially after Rob passed away. I mean, they, they went to the funerals. They, you know, anytime we ever went back to the restaurant, they made a point of coming and sitting with us. And it's just funny. He was, it was Rob and then a bunch of really pretty Cape Cod girls. And,

And it couldn't have been a better situation. Like I'm sure Rob, his first instinct was like, okay, I know you're going to pay me something. We can worry about that later. Tell me about the girls I'll be working with. That's where his mind was. So I'm sure he's just flirting with everybody and charming, you know, charming the pants off everybody. And that probably made him a really good host as well. And yeah,

But not everyone fell for the charming smile and tall tales of Robert Joyle. In fact, his parents could see right through it.

There's, of course, the great story where he was actually supposed to go to Cape Cod that day. He was supposed to jump on a plane. And I guess the night before, he snuck out, came back in, and dropped his weed on the floor. And my mom woke him up and was like, Robert, what the hell is all this? And he was like, oh, I don't know. I think somebody must have put it there. Somebody must have planted that there. And she was like, somebody went into your room and spread pot all over your room.

carpet and then like onto your bed he was like yeah isn't that crazy and she was like Rob you gotta be kidding me and he was so good he was denied denied denied denied okay here's what happened

And he would try to get out of it best he could. And my mom, knowing that, and now my dad was like, what's going on? What is all this? And my mom goes, okay, well, as long as it's not yours, then you won't mind. I'm just going to flush it down the toilet. So she grabbed the bag, the ripped bag that still had a lot of it in, I guess still had a bunch of pot in it.

And she started to go to the bathroom right next to his room. We had a bathroom like in between our two rooms. And so she brought the bag in there. And all of a sudden, my brother follows her out and was like, well, wait a minute. Let's think about this. It's not my weed, but I could probably sell it. And then we could use that money for something good. Oh, don't flush it. Don't flush it. Come on. We could build a porch. Like he was so desperate to find a way to have my mom

go, yeah, you're right. Here's the weed back. You deal with it. Of course, my mom and dad were like, Rob,

this is ridiculous. How far are you willing to go for this? And then when they flushed it, he was like, oh my God, like, you don't have no idea how much that cost me. You know, like I thought it wasn't yours. And he was like, yeah, yeah, it's not, but it could have been or something. And they were just like, Robert Joy, I'll tell the truth. And he was like, that's my weed. And you just flushed it. Now I'm out like, you know, 140 bucks or something. It was a riot. And then we had a couple of

A couple different stories kind of similar to that. Like the time he accidentally smashed into something in his dad's car and thought the best way to cover it up was to kick it, pretend it was vandalism, and hope he didn't get caught. Spoiler alert, he got caught.

I mean, there was the other time he stole my dad's Mercedes and then crashed it and then tried to make it seem like somebody else stole it. And then was denying, denying, denying right up until the point where my dad grabbed my brother's sneaker and matched it to the footprint on the door. And then my brother said, okay, here's what happened. It was funny because he kind of liked to toe the line with rules.

But he was also very charming. And I think he got away with a lot. I think it was a little bit different with my mom and dad. I think they kind of knew what his games were. But I think if you were like a teacher and Rob didn't turn in an assignment or was late and he said, I'm going to have to call your parents, he could charm his way out of it. The stories that, at the time, were met with a shaking of the head or frustration are now precious, funny, and treasured.

Small stories that offer a glimpse inside Rob's life before it was taken away. A moment in a memory where his smile comes to life again, his laughs fill a room, and his big personality, even in the moments when he was annoying family and pushing his boundaries, shines through. He definitely was a handful. And that's, you know, it's part of, it's a curse and a blessing. Like, the blessing was that

He was so funny and he was so just willing to joke around and take things lightly and goof around and make people feel great and tell jokes. And, you know, if you're putting up lights on the Christmas tree, he would be singing to himself, you know, making songs up. It's Christmas and we're putting up the tree. It's Christmas. Like, and you just be like, man, he is out of his mind.

But also, I think he was a little fearless, and I think sometimes that got him into trouble. I think that's why, you know, he couldn't back away from somebody slightly antagonizing him. You know, most people would just say, ah, it's not worth it. My brother would go, ah, it's worth it. I'm going to go confront this person. So, yeah, it was a double-edged sword, so to speak. It was this quality in Rob, this confrontational nature, that may have ultimately cost him his life.

Rob and I have different fathers. My mom and his dad had split up, and that was in Massachusetts. And then she met my dad, and they had me. And Rob and I were about seven years apart. I didn't even really understand that until, gosh, I was in middle school myself.

He never made me feel like I was anything less than 100% his brother. So yeah, so we had lived up there. I think I was like two or two and a half when we moved. And so he had a little bit of a, he had a life in Massachusetts. And, you know, by the time we left, we were all, you know, the new and improved Joel Myers clan. So we had my mom, my dad, myself and my brother. But

But we were a tight little family. And Rob and I, even though we were like seven years apart, it's just like all of my memories are just like connected to him. He was always there. And he loved, you know, I don't say this without this being like shoved down my throat for the longest time is that Rob adored me and he loved having a little brother. And so I was a big priority to him for sure.

I noticed that Mark uses the hyphenated last name of Joel Myers, so I asked him what Rob went by. I also asked him if Rob's biological father was ever a part of his life. No.

No, never. And, you know, that was definitely, I think, you know, something that Rob had to deal with internally. And I'm sure that caused him a lot of confusion and pain. So he had a kind of a weird relationship with my dad because it wasn't his real dad.

I think there was some tension there. Again, I was so little that I didn't really pay attention to any of that because it didn't really dawn on me until much later in my life that that might have been some sort of an issue here and there. But he never spoke to his biological father. The guy pretty much just stayed out of his life, moved on. And my mom just had to sort of pick up the slack, grab her son and move on, make it work. And she did.

Listening to Mark speak so frankly about Rob and his struggles helped me to really understand him. Every person, no matter how young, has struggles. And in today's world, we are so quick to bottle up or filter or hide them to the point where we sometimes don't think they're happening to anyone else but us. But struggle and grit is what makes us human. The ugly, imperfect bits of our stories, relatable.

Rob wasn't perfect, despite trying to charm certain people into thinking he was. And I'm grateful to Mark and his family for being so transparent. It would be easy to see Rob's short life only through rose-colored glasses.

Knowing Rob was going through some deeper dynamics he didn't quite understand within himself helped me to understand a little more about how he maybe saw his place in the world. A kid who acts out sometimes and does stupid things, but underneath it all just wants a place to belong. A place where he fits in and feels accepted. Rob did belong to his family, but maybe he couldn't quite see that no matter how much support he was given.

Maybe he didn't quite understand why. The worst thing that could have happened to 17-year-old Rob was getting kicked off the football team junior year. And instead of it helping improve his focus on grades, it only made it worse. His entire demeanor changed, and he started acting out more. His grades didn't get any better, and without his place on the football team, Rob felt lost.

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We didn't love Texas. I mean, we didn't love Houston. My parents, my dad's from New Jersey, my mom is from Massachusetts, and Texas is just its own world. It's a weird place, as you may know. You know, we did our thing, and then we just kind of felt like, okay, well, it's kind of run its course. Let's go back to New England. You know, I think we got to a point where I was headed towards middle school, and my brother was...

you know, in his later years of high school. And I think my parents recognized that middle school in Houston was a big change. It was very similar to high school. And I think there was a sense that like,

okay, we did it with Rob and it had its ups and downs, but Mark's about to get to that point. He's in the fourth grade and sixth grade was when you went to middle school. So I think they were sort of like, do we stay here and let Mark finish school here or do we relocate now and just start that process? Because I don't think they envisioned themselves staying in Texas forever.

So that was primarily the drive there. I think Houston was just a really rough place. And Rob and his personality, that could be a scary mix, right? Like he's somebody who wants to toe the line. He kind of breaks the rules every now and then. He's kind of hardheaded. He's got a little bit of an ego. And I think he just kept getting into trouble and sneaking out of the house. And we were getting calls that like, you know, Robert hasn't

been to school this week and then, you know, they'd call him out on it and he, you know, went to the Galveston and hung out with all his friends down there or something. Like, he just was doing his own thing. He was not...

not all about being tied down, but after he left the football team, the crowd he was hanging out with got rougher and rougher. I mean, I remember this one time where my mom and I picked him up from school and he was still on the football team. And she noticed as we were leaving, she noticed, um, one of Rob's like best friends that he hadn't hung out with in a few years. And she

And she goes, oh, is that so-and-so? And he was like, yeah. And she's like, whatever happened to him? Why don't you hang out with him? And he said, you know, he, he like quit football in high school and, and, uh, he started hanging out with some rough crowds. And I think he's like into drugs and stuff. And it's just not really my thing and whatever.

And then fast forward a couple of years, I think he sort of started to follow in that path. You know, he was going to start smoking pot and drink and sneak out of the house. And it was just becoming more frequent, especially because we didn't have football to kind of keep them grounded. And so I think my parents just looked at that and kind of felt like it was a powder keg, like we're asking for it if we stay here. You know, either Rob's going to get in trouble or

Or Mark is going to lose his innocence when he makes it to high school and he could follow a path that maybe Rob is on now and not do any sports and get into trouble. And hey, maybe it would just make sense if we moved to like a really nice, quaint little country bumpkin town in a different area and we'll just kind of press the reset button.

I was pretty much on board for it. I think my brother had some hesitation, obviously, because he had friends and he had a life and he was a little kind of weirded out about just leaving again. But he also recognized it as an opportunity. And, you know, we loved being near Cape Cod because that was where both of us were originally born and we had a lot of roots there. So, yeah.

Being closer was a really nice thing to us. And I think the more we talked about it, the more Rob and I, in particular Rob, were sold on the idea that, yeah, let's do this. Let's move to Maine. And I also think Rob recognized that

Things weren't on the up and up. It just seemed like life was getting harder and harder for him. And my parents were having a harder and harder time kind of keeping him in line. And so the idea that we would move to this nice, quiet little town away from the scary big city,

I don't know, like it was going to be like a little house on the prairie or something. We were going to be the Waltons and we'd all say, good night, Rob. Good night, Mark. Good night, Dad. And then we'd go outside and play in the dirt and be back to being a nice quaint little New England family. So I think that was kind of what we had hoped.

In 1998, the rough population of Houston was about 1.9 million. The Clear Lake neighborhood alone had 80,000 people. The population of Gorham, Maine in 1998? A little over 13,000.

The more we looked into it, or I should say the more my parents looked into it, they recognized Gorham as a place that at the time was still pretty small, but they had just built a new high school. And all the reviews said and all the real estate people said that the school system here was really good and great.

and really it was my dad, fell in love with this farmhouse, this old farmhouse in Gorham. And it just, it met a lot of the criteria that we were looking for at the time. It was quiet. It was safe.

Again, that was a big thing. Like, we don't want to just move from Houston to another Houston. We want to move somewhere quieter, you know, get out of the hustle and bustle in Houston and, you know, try the quaint New England farmhouse life. Safe. Maine was safe. A safe place to raise a family. Maybe Rob would get into less trouble here. Maybe this was the fresh start he needed.

Rob knew exactly where he would find his place in school. He'd started over before, and he could do it again. This was his senior year, and he knew exactly where he was going to fit. The football team. This was his chance to apply himself, step up, and become the football star he knew he was. To go out with a bang at a brand new school and maybe find a girlfriend and some good friends in the process.

This was Robert Joyal's second chance. My parents drove, we had two cars filled with stuff, and there was really only room for the driver. So my parents drove the cars full of stuff to Maine, and my brother and I took a plane and went and stayed with my grandparents for like a week before my parents made it up there, and then we all made the trek. And I remember on the runway,

And Rob told me, he said, he was asking me if I was excited. And I said, yeah, I'm a little nervous. Like, so weird. Like, you know, that was the last time our feet will ever be on, you know, Houston, Texas soil. And he said, you know, this is going to be really good.

He said, you and I are going to stick together and we're going to get to this new house and we're going to make a football field out in that big yard and that picture that dad showed us. And I'm going to get back into behaving and mom and dad and I are going to sort of work all that stuff out.

But you and I, Mark, we're going to be, we're best friends and I need you. So we're going to lean on each other and we'll have each other when we move there. And he really took this sort of big brother, parental sort of approach to our move. Moving 2,000 miles away left a lot of the bad influences that surrounded him behind and created a lot of space for new things.

Would he fill this void with strong new habits and have a fresh start? Or would his past problems manifest again in Maine? He had a much tougher time than I did. When we got here, you know, it was such a small town. And I got into school and I felt like I was always a shy kid. I never raised my hand. Even to this day, I don't really like...

enjoy a big company around me. And so when I moved there, I remember hearing that speech from Rob when we were on the runway and thinking, hey, maybe what I'll do is I'll start participating in class. Maybe I'll start talking to people. That was my approach to it. So when we got here, I sort of became the class clown, which relative to where I was in Texas was totally different. But I just was like, oh, fresh start. Let's do it.

And Rob's experience was that he went to school and everyone said, why are you dressed in Ralph Lauren? And why do you care about what your hair looks like? Rob was just different. He was so different than everybody here. I think he tried, but...

people weren't really accepting of him. And again, it was his senior year. So it's not like, you know, I had the luxury of it being fifth grade. So I still had time to sort of carve out my niche and find my way into social groups and stuff. I think Rob just hit a brick wall when he got here and wasn't really accepted. I don't

I remember a couple times he got into some fights at school. Like there was this one kid who was on the basketball team, I think, and he said something to my brother in the hallway. And my brother was like, I don't care who you are. I don't even know who you are, but I'm not taking that from you. And the kid kind of chirped at him back. And my brother was like, I told you I'm not backing down. And so my brother beat the snot out of the kid.

which just alienated him more. And I remember him at the table, you know, he got sent home from school, obviously, and I was sort of peeking in as he and his girlfriend and my mom were at the table and he had his hands, he had his head in his hands and he was crying. And he was saying, "I don't wanna get in trouble. "I don't wanna do that. "This kid was giving me a hard time. "I feel horrible. "Like, everybody hates me here."

And I felt really bad for him. Maybe if Gorham had had an established football team, it would have been different for him. Maybe if kids in school had been more accepting of him and welcomed him, he would have found his place. But Gorham didn't have a football team until 1999, one year after Rob's death. I think kids made it really hard for him.

You know, he was the new kid, and he had less than one school year to make his way into some sort of a social circle. You know, living in a small town, a lot of those cliques and those groups are formed much earlier, and nobody really let him in. And the people that were accepting of him were some of the people that turned their back on him when everything went down in the end.

One place that Rob did fit in was around girls. His boldness, charm, and the mystery of being the new kid from the big, far-off place of Houston made him intriguing. That's the thing about him. He had a girlfriend before the plane landed. He loved girls. And he

He always had a girlfriend or a love interest. Very shortly after he got here, he was going out on dates with people. For me, asking out a girl in high school, oh my gosh, that's like, I might as well just jump off a bridge while I'm at it. Like, it's horrible. That's the scariest thing I've ever heard.

And Robert would just like go from girl to girl, like flirt with them and take them on a date. And if they broke up, he'd be like, okay, next one. I think that was part of his identity. He always liked having a girlfriend. You know, he played football. He dressed well. He was a tough, scrappy guy with a really good smile and always had a lady on his arm to keep him balanced. And I think that too was another thing. Like the girls he dated always seemed to be

fairly grounded and they were sort of his anchors. And the girl that he met here was not like that. She was a little bit of a drama queen and she just wasn't like some of his other girlfriends. You know, he liked having a girlfriend. He liked having somebody who, you know, was his partner in crime, so to speak. And so when he moved here, I'm sure they were like, okay, I got to find my locker. I need to find my girlfriend and I need to figure out where to get a haircut.

On the one hand, Rob was a serial monogamist. From the outside, girls might seem disposable, but with all of the conflict in his life, his parents, his academics, and his peers, Rob's romantic relationships probably provided him with something he deeply needed, acceptance.

Given his lack of other close relationships, he probably confided in and depended on his girlfriends more than Mark or his parents may have realized at the time. Sadly, his success in asking girls out on dates, especially being the new kid from away, probably didn't make him any friends amongst the guys in school.

Mark told me that Rob and his last girlfriend, Monique, saw Titanic in the theater about 20 times and saw themselves in the romance between Jack and Rose.

The Joyal Myers family moved to Maine in the fall of 1997, just in time for the ice storm of 98. A once-in-a-century storm that people still talk about. It holds a strange place in people's memory. Something remembered with a bit of boasting. After all, surviving it entitles you to a badge of honor.

But at the same time, it instilled a lingering fear about the power and brutality of Maine's winter. This major ice storm was every adult's nightmare and every kid's dream. Two weeks off from school, until you were still sitting in class in June, making up for those lost days. A far cry from the suburbs of hot and sunny Texas.

Mark remembered being interviewed by a reporter and his family being featured on the news. He still has the segment on VHS tape. It was just a couple months before he passed away. And so that is the last Rob that we ever experienced. That's the last time we knew him as a living human being. And that video is, it's

It's got all of his charm. It's got his smile. It's got his, you know, you tell the lady that reporter said, you know, what are you going to do with all your all your free time now that schools are closed? All this. And he goes, well, it's tough. He said, I just fortunately I brought all my books home from school and I plan on just continuing my studies.

And then he laughed, but it was, it was just perfect. Like you could tell he was like setting her up. And then this smile comes across. He goes, nah, I'm just kidding. He's like, this is great. I hate school. That's what he was. He was like, he was witty. He was funny. He was sharp. He had that element of like school. I don't care about school. So he's kind of a rebel. Like everything about him was like, somehow it's like a microcosm for him. Like he made it into that little clip and he was dressed nice and

you know, I'm sure like we hadn't taken a shower or something. And like Rob still had, you know, his nice shirt on and is perfectly, uh, he used to bend the rim on his hat and he would do, he would spend like hours on it. And I'd be like, dude, once you bend it, that's good. And he'd be like, no, it's gotta be the perfect bend. So his hats had the best, like he would, he would fold that rim or curve it or whatever. And, uh, he was sharp. It was definitely sharp. He was a sharp dressed man.

Long after VHS turned into DVDs and streaming, that tape holds value. More value than it did when it was a good laugh in 1998. A fun future memory of that time we were on TV. More than 20 years after Rob's death, it's one of the only things that Mark has to remind him of some things he never thought he'd forget.

I remember when he died and trying to wrap my head around like what that meant and what the implications of that were. And I remember like the day that it happened,

Thinking to myself, wow, that's weird that I'll never hear him talk again. And then in my head, I'm going, oh, good. I've got all these memories where I can just close my eyes and I'm right there with him. And little by little, your memory starts to fade. And I think that's part of what makes loss so hard is that as bad as it is in that first week, the first moments,

the rest of your life, that distance that gets created. And it just makes it harder. It makes it hurt more and more. And so I remember telling myself at 11 years old, whatever you do, don't forget his voice. Keep these memories in your head. And I tried to think about him as much as I could. And I'd wake up the next day and go, do I remember what Rob sounds like? And I'd try to go into my memory and go, okay, yeah, that's him. And

And over time, it disappeared. And that is where I think loss hits on another level. It's one thing just to, you know, get the news and he's not at the dinner table, but then to feel like, oh, I don't remember what he smells like. I don't remember what he sounds like. I forget if he was this tall or if he was this tall or what size shoe did he wear? Like, you just start to forget those things. And

And we found that DHS not long ago. And that was a big, it was actually a big sigh of relief for me knowing that that existed. And I have watched it and it's weird. It hits you. It hits you hard when you hear his voice for the first time in what feels like 20 years. And it just like wallops you out.

By the end of the storm going into the spring of 1998, the promises that Rob had made himself on the plane were long forgotten. His grades continued to decline, and his behavior got more and more rebellious. There was a constant battle between Rob, who didn't care one bit about school, and the family who just wanted him to graduate high school in June.

Just a few more months. But Rob couldn't help himself when it came to pushing boundaries. Like they said, they basically said, this is the last straw, Rob. Like, we have been so lenient with you. We have tried so hard to give you every benefit of the doubt. But if you do another stupid thing, like break curfew, buy a couple hours, or steal the car or something, like, you're forcing our hand. And so his response to that was...

My mom has a little tin where she keeps cash, sort of like an emergency fund. And I think he went in there and he took like a hundred bucks from her and didn't tell her. And she found out and was like, I told you, Rob, I told you not to do it. And you just couldn't help yourself.

After my conversation with Mark, he spoke with his mother, Faith, and she decided that it was important to correct his interpretation of his brother's last few months. Being that he was only 11, the family shielded him from their conflicts with Rob, and that shield has influenced the way he remembers this final month.

No matter how many chances Rob was given, he broke promises and crossed lines. About a month before his death, Rob wasn't actually living at home, though his stuff was still there and there was a space for him. His dad had kicked him out indefinitely after he ran up the phone bill to an absurd cost, back in the days of landlines and long-distance calls.

Faith said she once again gave Rob another opportunity to live with them, not wanting to push him away, and thought he might return home after a week where he stayed at his girlfriend's house, hoping it would give everyone a chance to cool down. But they didn't.

About a week before his death, Faith came home from work only to see Rob and Monique at the house, which was surprising since he still wasn't staying at home. After looking around, she realized that checks were missing from her checkbook. Rob had stolen her checks. And that was the final straw. When she confronted her son about the checks, he didn't seem to take it seriously.

In fact, he showed no concern or remorse at all. And after constantly defending him and exhausting every option of trying to give him space only to receive pushback on nearly every action, after he broke her trust for the very last time, she could no longer defend her son. Something needed to change.

It was decided that the following week, Rob would officially move out and into his friend's place in Portland. At that point, I think everyone was kind of exhausted from that back and forth. You know, I don't know who started the conversation, but they were just like, would it just be easier if you had an apartment, you didn't live here, and...

You wouldn't have to deal with our rules, but you would have to promise us that you would be going to school. Once you graduate, you can do whatever you want, but we have to get you to graduation, Rob. And I think he felt like, yeah, you know what? You give me a little independence. You give me a little bit more leash. Yeah, I'll go to school. I'll work hard. If that's the deal, I'll do it.

And so it started with arguing that sort of thing. But I think in the end, it was like it was like a peace treaty. It was like, OK, what are the rules? We need a ceasefire. How do we how do we do this?

And that was the agreement that, you know, for the last few months of school, he would go get an apartment with a friend or something. And he had a buddy who had an apartment in Portland who was a little bit older than him, but had graduated already and was living in the apartment. And he was one of the guys that was with him that night. And it was sort of like a last resort, but

But we're so close to the finish line of graduation, and we just got to get you through these last couple months. What's it going to take? And that was where they landed. This decision still haunts Faith to this day. Maybe if I didn't kick him out, he'd still be alive. But nobody can predict what can happen. The decision to let Rob live somewhere else was influenced by what was best for the family. It's not her fault Rob died.

On April 3rd, 1998, Rob packed up his stuff in the new-to-him Ford Bronco his dad got him earlier that day and said his goodbyes to Gorham. Though he was only moving a short drive away, Mark remembered this day as bittersweet.

I was becoming a Red Sox fan, but I still thought the Yankees were cool. And when my dad got us these fitted Yankees hats for Christmas, mine fit really well. And Rob's was a little too big for him. So he constantly was taking the hat and swapping them out. And I had made a little mark under the cap. So I knew which hat was which and I call him out on it. And, uh,

I try to hide it from him more just like little big brother little brother stuff and I wanted to do something special for him and he came up in the upstairs where his room was and I was up there that was where we had like a playstation he had a little like couch up there and that was kind of the den so to speak and

Rob told Mark he'd see him the next day...

and hired his little brother to help him unpack, a job Mark was more than happy to take. Mark had no idea this would be the last time he'd get to hug his brother. Despite the move coming from a place of frustration, there was a sense of hope and maybe a dash of fear, but mostly confidence that the family was ultimately moving towards growing closer, despite physically moving farther apart.

Mark recalled watching Rob as he drove away that afternoon to his new life. He and my dad were talking for, you know, 10, 15 minutes, and then they shook hands, and then my dad, like, pulled them in for a hug, and they just had this big, long hug.

And it was, it was beautiful, right? Like after everything, all the stupid fighting over, you know, clean your room, get home earlier, do this, do that. And, uh, all of a sudden it was like, I love you. And I, I, I want you to be okay. And, and we're here for you. And, and Rob saying, I know, and I love you too, dad. And this is going to be good for all of us. And they were both really excited about, they got us Ford Bronco.

And they were really proud of that. And they hugged. And I watched my brother get in the car. And my dad came back in the house. And I saw my brother back out of the driveway. And my immediate thought was, OK, well, I'm going to go to sleep. I'm going to wake up. And tomorrow I got a big day ahead of me because I got to go help Rob set up his new apartment. But Rob never unpacked the car. Rob didn't even get to sleep in his apartment.

Because by the early morning hours of April 4th, 1998, the same night he'd moved out of his family's home, his very first night of freedom, Robert Joyle was stabbed to death in front of 50 people in the Denny's parking lot in Portland. And to this day, his case remains unsolved. ♪

Next week on Murder, She Told. The police would come into our living room and say this was gang activity and then they would go on the TV and they would say, Portland doesn't have a gang problem. And at the end, we were the ones who were just sort of like left on an island by ourselves and we realized how naive we were in that we trusted everybody and that's not to say that

Join me as I continue the conversation with Mark about his brother Rob. We'll dive into the investigation, what happened that night at Denny's, and why this case is still unsolved, despite having so many eyewitnesses.

If you or anyone you know has any information, call the Maine State Major Crimes Unit at 207-624-7143 or use the tip line linked in the show notes. I want to thank you so much for listening. I am so grateful that you chose to tune in and I couldn't be here without you. Thank you.

My sources for this episode include the Portland Press Herald, the Bangor Daily News, the Morning Sentinel, News Center Maine, and centralmaine.com. A very special thanks to Mark and Faith for sharing their memories and trusting me with Rob's story. All links for sources and images for this episode can be found on murdershetold.com, linked in the show notes. Special thanks to Byron Willis for his research and writing support.

If you loved this episode, please consider sharing it with a friend and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It's one of the best ways to support an indie podcast. If you are a friend or a family member of the victim, you're more than welcome to reach out to me at MurderSheToldPod at gmail.com. If you have a story that needs to be told or would like to suggest one, I would love to hear from you.

My only hope is that I've honored your stories in keeping the names of your family and friends alive. I'm Kristen Sevey, and this is Murder, She Told. Thank you for listening.