Jody McBrayer: So Far, So Good...Thanks To God
25:57 Share

It's time to take the quiz. Five questions, five minutes a day, five days a week. Take the quiz every weekday at thequiz.fox and then listen to the quiz podcast to find out how you did. Play, share, and of course, listen to the quiz at thequiz.fox.

It's live in the Bream with host of Fox News at night, Shannon Bream. All right, this week on live in the Bream, somebody who is well-known and loved, but also means a lot to me because he's a friend. He's got a brand new book out, but you will know him in some respects as a Christian music superstar. He has won all kinds of awards. He's humble and he's already laughing and embarrassed, but I love him so much. Jody McBrayer.

of Avalon, of Kena's Voice of Truth. If you want to go way back, it is so great to have you on Live in the Bream. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here. Okay. This new book coming out so far, so good, but it was touch and go there for a while. Comes out on the 24th of November. And I don't know how you're doing all of this stuff because you're also the worship pastor at Ashland Avenue Church in Cincinnati. So this was quite an undertaking and you're super transparent about your life

Why was it important to you to kind of just put this all out there? A different Jodi McBear than a lot of people may think they know. Well, I'm just a big advocate and I don't know that I've always been a big advocate for this. I mean, definitely, you know, it's been a process, but I think over the last, especially seven years, like I looked at a memory today that came up on Facebook and now we have those things that pop up and it's, and it showed, I was in the Holy land this time, seven years ago.

And I remember feeling so alone and despondent in the Holy land. Like it was a, it was during that season of my life where things were really transitioning and I was struggling and,

It was probably about seven years ago that I started to decide, okay, look, I can either dig a hole and hide in that hole, or I can step out and share who I am, share what I've been through, talk about the scars, talk about the difficulties in the hopes that somebody will see themselves in me and find healing, find camaraderie, just find companionship, anything. And I think there's healing in knowing you're not alone, you know? So that's really the goal for the book and, and,

You know, my wife, Stephanie and I, we sat and talked about the book for a while. And I remember a couple of times I'm like, should I share this? Should I talk about this? Do we really want to go into that? And at first we would both recoil, you know, it'd be like, well, maybe we shouldn't. But then the more we talked about it, the more we're like, but if it's going to help somebody, right.

If somebody is going to see themselves in it, yeah, we should. And so, so far, so good. There it is. Yeah. And also I should mention that you re-recorded that song, which was such a beautiful big hit back in the day. And this time around, it's a different arrangement and it's with your daughter.

Also singing with you. And I got to think like as 20 somethings, when that song came out, like I loved it so much and it, it touched me, but it's different to hear it 20, 30 years later, all the life you've lived and to know what that song really means. And now to have your daughter too. Oh gosh. Yeah. Well, you know, the thing is, is you sing a song like so far, so good, which really talks

it's kind of a love letter or a letter to Jesus just saying, thanks, you know, for all the things that we've been through together, I'm still here and I'm still doing okay. And it's because you've been so faithful. You've been great. And, um, you know, at 22 years old, how you really can't sing that. And then the experience that I had in the, in the studio recording, that was just a nightmare. I write about it in the book too, but, um,

Yeah, to come full circle now, some 51 years later. But you've got great hair. Oh, well, listen, I've got hair and teeth. That's about all I got going for me.

But to have my daughter singing on it with me, who is 16 and did a phenomenal job. She's a way better singer at 16 than I was. That's for sure. Well, I love that you included so much of your childhood in this book too. And you talk about your precious father, who was just like one of the most amazing people. But your tomfoolery as a child brought me many chuckles. I loved it because you had kind of this like little rebellious streak. Like, listen, you're somebody who is up in church and like blowing down the house with your amazing vocal pipes.

but always a little bit of mischief, like skirting the rules a little bit. And, you know, I think that does create a little bit of internal conflict for people when we feel like as Christians, we have to look and be perfect and never mess up and live a certain expected way. And if you are struggling with things, it's really tough to kind of feel like you got to have that onstage facade and,

When you know yourself, you may need help with something or there are things in your life that aren't completely perfect. That's all of us. And so you're kind of putting this all out there, you know, warts and all for people to read. I think they're going to be super encouraged. But take us through the loss of your father, because I think that was such a critical point in your life. It was.

You know, I think dysfunction, any dysfunction that we have in our life, I think, I mean, the Bible says that foolishness is bound in the heart of a child. So I think we all have foolishness in us. You know what I mean? I mean, nobody, people would look at you and think, you know, Shannon's got it all together. And you have always. Which is true, right, Jodi? Of course it's true. You've always dotted every I and crossed every T. But I, you know, I think the flip side is like, I think about my brothers and my

I have two older brothers and both of them are, you know, they're just very organized and very grounded, I guess. And so my parents would say, Richard, Jim, don't do this. And they'd be like, OK. And they'd say, Jody, don't do this. And I'd be like, OK, you know, why not? And I would always push the envelope. So you're right about that. I've always kind of had this.

not rebellious because I'm not really a rebellious person, but I've always kind of had this, well, how bad can it be? I mean, surely I can do that. I mean, it's not going to hurt, you know, and then I always find out the hard way. But, you know, the, the whole perception of perfection thing that the church pushes, not just on people who are on the platform, but I think religion in general has pushed this for centuries and,

You know, you're not allowed to be flawed. You're not allowed to make mistakes. And if you are, you know, yes, of course, there's we receive forgiveness from Christ for those things. And he loves us. We know that we know that Christ forgives us, but people aren't always as forgiving or forgetting. And so a lot of times you deal with ostracization or is that the right word? I wrote a book and I don't even know the right word, but.

you get ostracized. We get it. We get the idea. Yeah. Um, and you get kind of pushed away from faith and pushed away from those things. And so I think there was a part of me when my father passed away, if I can come back to that point. Um, um,

When my dad passed away, he was the, he was sort of like my buffer. He was the person that I, everything that I did wrong, everything that I did right, I always bounced off of him. And when he was gone, I think everything just felt wrong. Everything, everything felt like it just like, it's like the light was on and it just, the light turned off and I was in the darkest place I could possibly be. And so when you're in the dark, all of the negative things start to get highlighted and

And I let the dysfunction take over. It was really just poor decisions on my part. Mm-hmm.

there's one of the things in the book, you talk about a poor decision that you had made and some things that had gone wrong. And I texted you because this part of your book actually made me cry to know that your dad said, you can come home. I want you to come home right now. He wanted you to be there to talk through it and be taken care of by your family. And he left you a ticket. He said, go to the airport. There'll be a ticket there. When you checked in, you found out it was a first-class ticket that your dad had sent you after this horrible mistake and, and

tough time in your life. It literally brought me to tears because I thought about what a sweetheart of a guy he was and that he would say, I'm putting my boy in first class to come home and us to figure this out. It just kind of said everything about who he was. Yeah. You know, I think...

I'm not going to cry. I'm not going to cry. That's okay. Cause I am on this end. You know, my, I wish so much that, and my dad was a dad to a lot of people. I mean, he was that kind of person and everybody, sorry, the dogs, um, everybody, um, you know, everybody's sort of a hero when they pass away. You know what I'm saying? Like everybody's kind of like, we always want to remember the good things and never talk about my dad. There really wasn't that much bad. I mean, he had a temper every once in a while, you know, um,

He was a Baptist pastor, but he would say a curse word every now and then. Oh, no. But I'm seeing he's just a solid, great, godly guy and loved so well. And, you know...

When he bought me that ticket, I remember calling them on the phone and talking to them about what I had done. And I was so scared to, because I never wanted to disappoint him. My mother was kind of go with the flow. She's like, well, that's fine. Just come home. You know, she was just that kind of person. But my dad, I could always sense when he was disappointed in me and it broke my heart. And, you know, he was silent. So that, I think when I got to the airport and that first class ticket was there, I

It was my father's way of saying, listen, you're not just welcome home, but I'm rolling out the red carpet for you. And it reminded me of the prodigal son story in the Bible, you know, when he had gone and squandered everything that he was given and came back and said, look, I'll just work in your I'll work in your fields with your workers. He's like, no, you won't. I'm going to.

throw a feast and give you a diamond ring and put a coat on you. You're my son and you're welcome home. And that's who my dad was. And you know what I read in your book, you talk about the prodigal son. And I was just reading about that in my reading this morning and something I hadn't really thought about before, but the author was talking about in dissecting that story that

that the second son who had stayed there and been faithful and been the good guy, following all the rules, stayed there, had worked. Like he was frustrated that his dad rolled out this red carpet for the prodigal son and how that can be so many of us too. Like, you know, why would God forgive them? And when it's like, well, okay, you know, we all are sons of God who, and daughters of God who have had this enormous amount of grace and redemption that

that we could never earn, that we can never deserve. So we should all be happy to see anybody get restored when they come back. And that son was not happy about the prodigal son, his brother. Yeah. It's our humanity that comes out in us. You know what I mean? It's like we, we all want to be recipients of large amounts of grace, but sometimes it's really difficult to give grace. And I've watched people

who have done me wrong in the past or people that have hurt me throughout my journey. And I see favor on them or I see their lives flourishing or I see great things going on with them. And sometimes it's difficult. You're like, oh, come on. Are you serious? Like, you know how many jobs I have to work and you're over here, you know, but in the same respect, it's I'm always reminded always, it always comes back to God saying, don't even go there. It

Because you could be in a ditch somewhere if it weren't for the grace that I've poured on for life. And so it always comes back around. And, you know, I'm just so grateful to be even sitting here telling my story. You know, the fact that I'm almost 52 and that I have the chance to do this is a blessing. It's weird how much older you are than me, but we were in college at the same time. Yeah, I know. How does that happen? Yeah.

I don't know. You just you turned 30 and stayed there. Right. Live in the Bream continues in a moment. This is Jimmy Fallon inviting you to join me for Fox Across America, where we'll discuss every single one of the Democrats dumb ideas. Just kidding. It's only a three hour show. Listen live at noon Eastern or get the podcast at Fox Across America dot com.

I love that. First of all, to know Stephanie is to love her. She's beautiful and amazing inside and out. And you guys shared some really personal stuff about her health struggles and what a toll that took on you. I've been there. And when you're going from doctor to doctor and you describe this feeling of when you finally, I mean, a long ways into this medical fight, get to this right doctor who says like, I can help you. It's this.

feeling of winning the lottery, like why might get my life back? You guys detail her struggle, which I think is going to be so helpful for people, but you also are very transparent about your marriage. I mean, listen, anybody who's been married longer than five minutes has had some trouble. I mean, like, and you don't stay married 20, 25,

without going through some valleys. And I do think that's another thing that's important for people to know that no one's marriage is as perfect as you think it looks from the outside. You're just very transparent about the fact that marriage is not easy and perfect. And you guys had struggles and you decided to share that in this book. Well, you know, okay. So my dad, again, going back to him, um,

was an ordained pastor and he used to do weddings and stuff when I was a kid. And a lot of the weddings we would go to because it was people that we knew. And my dad would get up to, you know, to do the little speech or the talk that they give before they give their vows. And my dad used to say all the time,

I just want you guys to know that at some point one or both of you are going to want out of this. And as a kid, I used to think, Oh, that's so awful. Like, why would you say that? That's terrible. Oh. And then you get married and you're like, I get it because it's true. And again, you go back to the humanity of who we are. Um,

People are people. And as much as we like to think that we've got it all together, you never ever see how selfish and how self-centered you could be as a person until you have to share your life with someone else. And, you know, Stephanie has been very, very patient with me through a lot of things. Now, in turn, we've walked through a lot of stuff with her too. And I think both of us would say, you know, we've come through it because we stayed together because we fought through the difficulties. And, you know, she is,

you know, there's a, there's a movie called ever after, which is kind of a take on Cinderella and it's with Drew Barrymore. It's one of our favorite movies. And there's a line in it where Leonardo da Vinci says, she's your match in every way. And, you know, I know that God brought her into my life as my match and it was going to take a special, special woman to deal with my mess and she hasn't dealt with it. So I'm so grateful. You know, we are 23 years and yeah, I mean,

I ain't going anywhere. Well, and I love that you made this point in the book. You talk about like when you get through tough times, some couples really struggle and they can't find a way through. But when you do on the other side, the bond that you have is so much deeper than what you started out with. And we found that to be true too. Like if you can really find your way to navigate and weather through the worst things on the other side, it's sort of like, you know, I see you and appreciate you and I'm bonded to you in a totally different way. Like we have each other's backs and

And I'm so glad we made it through that. Yeah. Well, you guys have walked through your share of even just health struggles as well. And like when I, when I had the chance to hear you speak at combo a couple of weeks ago, um, I had no idea to the extent of all the things that you had gone through with your eye and all of the, uh, and it sounded so similar to what we'd walked through with Stephanie with her autoimmune stuff. And, um, yeah,

You know, the interesting thing is, is that you really start to learn a lot about a person when they walk through that kind of stuff with you. And like, I'm sure Shell was unbelievable and Stephanie was too. So I'm so grateful for the bond that we have now. Not that we didn't have it when we first got married, but it's-

It's a different level. It is a different level. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. So you, what was fascinating to me is that you and I were not in regular contact during a lot of these years after college, you know, you lose touch. You're definitely somebody though, that you feel like I see you and we're just going to pick up where we left off. You're a good friend like that. But all of these years through the music business, which I think people who know you from that are going to be fascinated by some of this stuff.

with Avalon, with the recording studio, with Truth, with Kena's voice. Like there's just so much good behind the scenes stuff from award shows. And I mean, and I think everybody thinks too, like if you've had that level of success, like you're just billionaires and you're never going to struggle financially. And so...

When you tell all these things about, well, I was working these 13 jobs. Plus I was on tour as like a headlining artist. Like I think people will be fascinated of the inner workings of the music business. Yeah. Well, it is Christian music too. I mean, it's a bit, it's a vast difference, you know, like we're really good friends with Matthew and Emily West. And my daughter's best friend is Lulu West, Matthew's daughter. And Matthew's had great success, but 99% of his success has come from writing songs.

country songs. He's a very successful Christian artist, but he'll be the first person to tell you, I don't make my money from Christian music. It's a different pool. I always tell people because people are like, how long have you been doing this? I said, well, I just celebrated my 21st year in Christian music.

And I said, you know, if I were doing this for the money, I'd have quit a long time ago. It's not about that for me. And I think when I first started, I thought it was. I thought it was going to be, you know, I mean, obviously I did. I moved to Nashville, leased a car, bought a signed apartment. And by the way, that apartment sounded terrible. Oh, it was anus. And the way you describe it in the book, I'm like, yikes. And Stephanie, I mean, thank God she went to interior design school and she basically, you know, made it as livable as possible. But it was literally a hole in the wall.

It was awful. But then you tell the story too, like the first time that you heard your song on the radio. And I just love that because you imagine that as somebody who's trying to make it in Nashville. I love the way you describe that. Tell us a little bit about what that moment was like. Well, just, you know, back...

back in the glory days of Christian music, music has changed so much. And with streaming and iTunes and Spotify and all that stuff, the whole format has changed. But back when we signed back in 96, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and the ground was still cooling, you know, radio was it. Like if your song was being played on radio, you made it. And I

I'm sure a lot of people have seen that movie, That Thing You Do. It's very similar to that. You hear a song on the radio. And so our first song was a single called Give It Up. And our record came out. We always release records around Christmas time or Thanksgiving. And our record came out in November. So that means the single came out in September, I think.

And by the end of September, it had gone to number one. And we were sitting and I had never heard it on the radio. We were driving through downtown Nashville and passing by this Christian Lifeway Christian bookstore, which is no longer there. I miss those, by the way. I know they had this massive poster up in the window of us. Right when we passed by, I turned on the radio and they said, this is the new song from Avalon called Give It Up. And I was like, oh,

And I rolled down the window. And you know, it's down on Music Row. So there's people walking everywhere. And you're like, I'm on the radio. And they're like, clapping for you. It was really cool. I love that story. It was really cool. I mean, to have those moments, you know, you share the highest highs and the lowest lows and getting to places where people would see that success in you and never realize that you had real moments of darkness and that people struggle with depression, with anxiety, with all kinds of things. Even if you're successful, even if you are a child of God, I mean, there's just...

You say that there is nothing is wasted and that, you know, there's been purpose in all of your story. And I certainly feel that way as you're sharing it in the book.

Yeah. You know, I just think we're, we are only as good as our story and we can share all the positive things and make it look, make our Insta life look perfect. You know what I mean? That's the world we live in where everybody, Facebook's a little more real. Instagram is the gloss. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's the retouch and you know, I can't lie. I do a filter. I might use a face tune every once in a while. Yeah.

Nobody wants to see this untouched. But I, but I will say that I have, I have found more fulfillment personally when I share my soul, when I share what honesty and, and, you know, there's opportunities when I go and do things on my own. Avalon has been really great since I've been back with them to let me share my story. Kena's voice has been amazing to let me share my story. And I,

I got to tell you, people really connect with it. I think just because they want sincerity, they want somebody who's going to step up and go, listen, life can suck sometimes. And if it weren't for God, I wouldn't be here. And I want you guys to know whatever you're going through, you're not alone. And even though it stings right now, there is purpose in it.

you are going to be better because of it. So just hold on. And my, you know, my mantra is keep breathing, keep going. Cause I had a counselor say that to me once, you know, when I was suicidal and I was thinking about taking my own life, he said to me, you know, I can help you. And I know God can help you, but nobody can help you. If you stop breathing, you have to keep going. You have to keep breathing and together we'll get through this. And so I tell people all the time, there are a bunch of people who love you and care about you. Keep breathing, keep going.

Yeah. And I think that you will give people that by reading this story, because if they can see how you've walked through these valleys and if they can see that somebody who by the world standards would seem like they have everything and can struggle, but can find a way to grab those lifelines and to work your way through, um, that there's healing possible for all of us who struggle. And it's okay to say that you're struggling and it's okay to reach out for help. And I, and I was crushed by the story in your book about a pastor who had reached out for help and was struggling with mental health issues and

Yeah. Well, I will say this to anybody who's listening, who is in a church that doesn't give you the freedom or the ability to feel like you can share your life.

share your hurts openly, run. That is not what church is. That is not who Christ is. And Christ is supposed to be a refuge. He's supposed to be a cleft in the rock, a place where we can go when we're struggling and we're having difficulty and we can confess all the things that we're struggling with. And he's supposed to be an ever-present help in time of trouble. And so if your church is not that, then that's not who church is. And I'm not here to pass judgment on anybody, but it's like,

If you need help and you need somebody to walk through something with you, find a place where you can do that. Find somebody who can speak into your life, who encourages you. I've watched many pastors, worship pastors and senior pastors of churches fall apart because they did not have the support that they needed. They were made to believe that they had to be perfect.

that they weren't allowed to be flawed. They weren't allowed to, and who can live? Nobody, but Jesus is perfect. Nobody, but God is perfect. And so the fact that we put that kind of pressure on our spiritual leaders to be perfect is

It's insurmountable. I mean, our churches and our Christian communities should be placed where, listen, if somebody is desperately in need of help, whatever the issue is, that's what we're there for. You don't show up perfect because then you don't need a savior. Then you wouldn't need one. I mean, we're all flawed and we all need help and we need each other. And with the Lord's grace, we can get there. Okay. The book is so far so good out November 24th. Jodi McBrayer, if we want to follow your music and everything else that's going on too, what do we need to know?

Oh, gosh. Well, the book and everything is Amazon or Barnes & Noble. You can order it there. Music is all on iTunes. It's everywhere you listen to music, iTunes, Amazon Music, Spotify, any place like that. The single, the new single, So Far So Good is...

is also on iTunes. It's beautiful. Are you going to be doing any touring coming up in the next year or so? I am. Well, so Avalon is, Avalon's got a new record coming out first of the year and we'll tour there. Yeah, I'm super excited about it. It's a worship offering and it's something that we really wanted to do for a long time. And since we all work in a church setting in some way or another, it just felt like the season for that. So we're doing that.

I'm doing a little Christmas tour, just five dates. But, you know, that's all I can do with being an artist at the church. So I'm doing that. I'm at a couple of I'm doing a couple of book pre-book tour things this weekend in Houston and the next weekend in where am I?

Florida. Do we get this stuff on Jodi McBrayer social media? So where we find out? So yes. So what I'm going to do is I have a new website that just launched. And so I'm going to create a page where there's going to have dates and times, but it's Jodi McBrayer online.com. So, okay. I love it. And by the way, I found out something. I will not give away the story here because people need to read the book. You and I have similar feelings about testify to love. Are you serious?

Oh my God. You know, I love all your songs, but I'm not the only one. I just, you know, loved it, but I, I still, I never got, I still don't get it. It's a, it is a huge hit. You are. You know, I can't. Jody McBrayer. The book is so far. So good. I'm just sending you and Stephanie and SC lots of love. And hopefully we'll see you guys soon out there. Thanks so much, Shannon. We love you. Thanks for joining live in the brain.

Cudlow on Fox Business is now on the go for podcast fans. Get key interviews with the biggest business newsmakers of the day. The Cudlow podcast will be available on the go after the show every weekday at foxbusinesspodcasts.com or wherever you download your favorite podcasts.