John Cooper Wants To Save America
24:00 Share

Hey every- Hey everyone! It's me, Drew Alfuallo, host of The Comment Section Show. Come join me and one of my iconic special guests every week on the show as we dive into the dreaded comment sections of our tagged videos and take down the most terrible men on the internet, period. Somehow they won't go away no matter what I do, no matter how incredibly awful and mean I am to them, but I don't mind doing this work. In fact, if I'm being honest, I think it's God's work.

So make sure y'all follow me on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts for new episodes every Wednesday. It's Live in the Bream with the host of Fox News Sunday, Shannon Bream. This week on Live in the Bream, we have somebody you may know for one very specific thing who is doing some very different things now in his life. And I love that when people have different talents.

And they're sometimes taking a chance by the one very successful thing they have to jump into another arena. And this week's guest has done that. John Cooper, you'll know him as singer for Skillet. These guys have sold more than 17 million albums, one of the most successful rock bands of the 21st century.

Selling out shows all over the world year after year. John Cooper, though, became an author in 2020, and now he's got a brand new book. His second book is out. It is called Wimpy, Weak, and Woke, How Truth Can Save America from Utopian Destruction. John, welcome to Live in the Bream. Hello. It's so great to chat with you. Thank you for having me. You too. Now, listen, I got to ask you, I was, before, as we're getting ready, I'm sitting here trying to gobble a little bit of Chick-fil-A and also listening and watching Skillet videos.

as I'm getting ready for this. I'm like, this is kind of a fun way to spend my afternoon. But people will know you for Skillet. So let's talk about that first. And then we're going to get into why you would jump into some of these really tough topics and conversations we're having as well. Did you ever have any idea? I don't know if people, when you start a band, you're like, yeah, we are definitely going to make it. I'm sure thousands of bands over the years have thought that, but was there something or a moment that sort of clicked for you? Like Skillet is really going to be a thing.

It's really funny because like it is for most things, you're living with two different feelings. Every musician thinks that they're going to be the next John Lennon. Exactly. Yeah, as soon as people hear it, it's going to be huge. But at the same time, you kind of don't actually believe that. You have these dreams, but you don't really believe it. And then I'll tell you what.

If you do actually think that, after a year of being on the road, driving in a van, never sleeping, never making any money, changing flat tires in the middle of the night, nobody coming to your shows, you then go, yeah, nobody's ever going to listen to my music. I'm never going to make it. And Skillet was really in that mindset.

more in that position. We were a band, our first record came out in 96. It wasn't until 2006, so we had been a band for 10 years, four records, actually it was our fifth record that finally really began to hit. We

We still didn't have any radio. We didn't have any radio songs, but there was this underground movement of Skillet fans. It was really happening. As you asked me, I remember that moment. I was actually at a show. We were in California. We flew in to do this gig, and we were performing the single from that record. The song was called Rebirthing. This is 2006.

And I remember the crowd singing so loud and it was the first time that it ever happened. Wow. So, you know, you're talking about 10 years and, and, and nobody's ever like sung my song back to me. Almost like when you go to a U2 show, you know, or something, everybody knows the words. I called my manager. I said, I said, dude, the weirdest thing happened. The crowd was singing the song. Like what, what does this mean? And my manager said, John,

you have to get it through your head. You guys are becoming famous. And I said, no, we're not. Nobody knows me on the street, but that was an amazing moment. I thought it was a one-off. And he said, no, this isn't a one-off. This is going to be the new thing. And I really couldn't believe it. It was amazing. But the good thing about that is that it keeps you, you know, people always say, when you guys got famous, did you struggle with pride? I say, no, I never had any pride in my own talent. I'd been a band for

10 to 13 years. I couldn't believe it. I was so thankful to God that I could pay my bills and I could feed my kids. The last thing I felt was pride. You just feel gratitude, you know? Well, that's what I felt anyway. Well, yeah. 10 years of character building, of, you know, dragging your own equipment. You say nobody was coming to your shows, which kind of cracks me up. It's like somebody was coming to the shows. But 10 years of that will remind you it's not about you. Like, it really, you know, you're like...

Like we're the same guys who were plugging away at this thing for 10 years. Then people finally catch the drift of what you're doing. By the way, how would you describe Skillet? Because I think this is funny when people know who you are. There's kind of a debate over what your music is, what the band is. How do you describe Skillet? Well, that's true. That's a great point. I say this Skillet.

Oh, gosh. It just really depends on who you're talking to. I've heard everybody describe us every which way from Sunday, and I usually say, yeah, that's fine. I don't really care. We definitely are a hard rock band, but Skillet is also very melodic, so we have a lot of pops

even though we are hard rock slash metal. We also definitely are a Christian band. I sing about my faith all the time. I talk about my faith even more than I sing about it. Very upfront about that. But at the same time, we make most of our money, most of our gigs. Most all of our shows are mainstream. I'd say 75% of our income is just from rock and roll. It's not music.

what we consider to be Christian music. It's not like that. It's rock music. We have a lot of fans, you know, that are, I would say even disproportionately that are not what,

church-going, card-carrying evangelicals or something. They're just people that like the way the music makes them feel, and I love that. I never wanted to be a band that only sang to Christian people. I want to make music for all people, and I want everybody to relate to my songs in whatever way it speaks to them, but I am up front about

why I write my songs. I say, yeah, this song is about my hero, Jesus Christ. This song is about God and hope and not wanting to live in anger and bitterness. I write songs about forgiveness and things like that, which kind of speaks to the point that you just mentioned a second ago. In the end,

And pride comes whether you're famous or whether you're not famous. Some of the most prideful bands I've ever met are bands you've never heard of and will never hear of. It's sort of like pride is something that's not really to do with success. It's to do with...

poor character. And so I think when you have good character, and of course, for Christians, we believe that's because the Holy Spirit lives inside of us and begins to root out these negative things, these harmful things, sin, the Bible calls it. We're rooting out sinful attitudes, and we're taking on attitudes that are Christ-like. And when we find that, we find humility, because it's not all about us, as you said. And so then, hey,

If I sell a million records, that's wonderful. If I sell 100 records, it's wonderful. It doesn't affect who I am. Yeah, it's kind of nice when you know that you're not in control. I know that I am a control freak. And so for a lot of us who like to micromanage everything, it's hard to be a person of faith if you really are going to say, I'm going to let go of this because I'm really not running the show anyway. But there's freedom in that. If you can think, like you said, I can be happy with the message of the song, whether it says 100 or a million.

Because I know I'm using my talents. I'm putting myself out there and trusting God with the rest of it. I mean, if you know you're going to touch people. And I know for you, part of this is that you suffered a really serious loss as a teenager. How did that motivate you in songwriting and pursuing this career? What was your hope in turning around something so tragic?

Yeah, so my mom got sick with cancer when I was in sixth grade. And that's around 12, 11, 12 years old, I believe. And my mom struggled with cancer. Actually, I really should rewind to say that my mom was sort of the, well, like lots of families, my mom was the glue. I mean, she was the spiritual. I mean, my dad was a Christian as well. So I'm not saying he wasn't, but my mom was like the Jesus glue.

loving, read the Bible to your kids, make your kids pray, you know, just, you know, wash your hands before dinner and pray, you know, sort of like the practical stuff.

Oh yeah. This is what life is about. Life is about having a relationship with Jesus. And I learned that from my mom. So when my mom got sick with cancer, it was a very destabilizing thing. Um, not just because that's how it is when a parent gets deathly ill, but my mom fought cancer for three years off and on for the first six or eight months, you know, she had surgery and she had all these things happen in her life. They thought they got rid of it. And about 10 months later, uh,

Bad news, the cancer spread, and it came back even worse. And so for the last year of her life, she was in chemo three days a week. My mom was unrecognizable to me. She shrunk down. Gosh, she had to be 90 pounds. I mean, she just did not look good.

I mean, I don't want to exaggerate it, but hardly like a person. She certainly didn't look like my mom. And she was deathly sick all the time. Her hope was to have one day a week that she was not throwing up. And of course, this is the 80s, and cancer treatment is brutal, but it's come a long way since the 80s, thank God. But it's still brutal. And so the whole house...

It's tough to explain to people when they don't know what this is like, but my dad kind of created an area for her to live in, in what we would call the TV room of the house, because she was just so sick. And then my dad couldn't sleep because she was barfing all night long, and he's got to work and whatnot. So she had her own area in the TV room, but the whole house just has this...

It's a stench of death and it's not, it doesn't literally smell. It's the stench of death is very visceral. It's hard to explain. You feel it. It's a motive. You walk into the house and you instinctively know something is wrong. That's what the stench of death is. And we live that way for the last year of her life because she just would not let go. Her doctors kept saying,

you should be dead. The only thing holding you together is your sheer will. And my mom would say, no, it's not will, it's my faith in Jesus. But she ended up dying. I was a freshman in high school. I began fighting with my dad. And the story goes on. I mean, I just didn't know if I would be happy again. I didn't know if life would ever be normal again. Music, and that was a really long answer. Sorry to keep going on and on. No, good to hear it.

My faith in Jesus was paramount. I began to know Jesus. I began to talk to Jesus in a way that I had never prayed in my life earlier, even though I had been a Christian. But I began to really pray, really talk to God and say to God, hey, look, I know you're my Lord. I know you're my Savior. I know you're real, but I don't feel like you're listening to me. This is

This sucks. There's not another way to say it. I've had those conversations. He can handle it. We know that he can handle it. He can. And but through that, I began to know Jesus as a friend. The other good thing in my life was music. And so, you know, this is the 80s.

early 90s, I should say. And there was no internet. There was no texting my friends. There was no sending my friends messages telling them to give me a ring. You didn't have that. All you have is headphones and a boombox. And so I began listening to music. Christian music really spoke to me. I learned a lot about my faith through Christian music. And I just thought,

If I could ever write a song that could help someone else, could help the next little John Cooper teenage version of me one day in the way that Amy Grant or Michael W. Smith or Petra or Striper. Oh, Petra and Striper. I'm glad somebody else. Obviously, you're going to know those bands. But any chance to talk about those bands is always fun. Oh, but they had such an impact with you.

Yeah. Not surprising. I'm so glad you know those bands. That's so cool. Yeah. I mean, if I could do that for someone else, that would be, in my view, a way to give back to help people in the way that Christian music helped me. That's what really pushed me towards music. We'll have more Live in the Bream in a moment.

The Fox True Crime Podcast presents Crimes on Campus. Sharing chilling stories of scandal, corruption, and murder. New episodes available every Tuesday this month. Listen and follow at foxtruecrime.com.

It's such an amazing story because there's so much pain there. And for a lot of people, it makes sense. I've seen this happen with other folks too, that you suffer such a devastating loss in your own life that you then turn and say, there couldn't be a God. How could a God allow me to go through this kind of pain or this kind of loss?

And I get that. I think it's beautiful that you were able to turn it to how do I help other people walk through this terrible thing or try to find joy or peace in their own life. And you've done that on such an amazing scale after 10 years of grinding it out. Then you were an overnight success starting in 2006 and have been so since then. But in the last few years, you've decided to speak up and get involved. This new book again is called Wimpy, Weak and Woke, How Truth Can Save America from Utopian Destruction.

Why wade into this area where, gosh, there are people who have really strong feelings on a number of really heated issues? Why did you say, I'm going to step into that. I want to be part of that conversation. That's such a great question, Shannon. And this is actually, I've done about 5,000 interviews and we haven't discussed it from this perspective.

So I really like that we're going where you're taking us here. There's a lot of people of since 2006, 2009, 10. We got we got quite big at that time. We had a really big album called Awake. And.

And we were known, are known as like the hopeful band, the God is there for you band, the never give up. We don't want to create division. Skillet wants to create unity. We are the nice people. We are the accepting people. A few years ago, I started getting very vocal about unity.

what some people call culture war issues. And now there's a lot of people saying, John, I'm mad at you. You used to be all the things I just said, the unity guy, the nice guy, the hopeful guy. Now you are saying these very divisive, angsty things and whatever. What they don't understand, what I keep explaining, but they just don't get is that I write songs. I want to help people through chaos. I want to help people through darkness.

And what they don't understand is that people in America have never experienced the kind of chaos that we are experiencing right now. We didn't experience those things in 2010, 2007, 2008. There were no – let's say it like this, and I don't want to make people mad, but let's just talk about the real stuff.

Average, ordinary American parents right now are scratching their heads saying, what in God's name are my kids learning at school? My kids are coming home with information with gender unicorns and saying that boys can be girls and girls can be boys. My son is coming home. My son got shamed at school because –

He's acting like he's being toxic masculinity. And once you get to the bottom of it, you find out that actually he wasn't doing anything wrong. He's just doing what boys do. And these people hate boys. And what's the deal? These things are so chaotic and so destructive. I mean, you're looking right now at 51% of Americans age 15 to 30.

51% of them support the actions of Hamas on October 7th. So we're in such chaos and we are in such vitriol and such – I mean literally the foundations of Western civilizations are crumbling and it is going to cause – is already causing so much destruction. And by the way, people don't know.

Right now in America, for teenagers, we have the highest rates of suicide in American history, the highest rates of anxiety, the highest rates of children on medication for depression, anxiety, ADHD, whatever it may be. The most medicated generation of all time, the most depressed generation of all time in American history. Things are not going good. So me coming out on these issues...

is an extension of my original mission. I don't want any more hurting teenagers. I'm sick of it. It's depressing and it doesn't have to be this way. And so talking about these things is a way to say, guys, there is an answer to this and it's found in truth. And that's what I try to do with my new book, Wimpy, Weak and Woke. Yeah, one of the things you mentioned that there is so much hurting and there is so much chaos in our society is,

And excuse me, one of the verses you cite in the book is for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace from First Corinthians and how, gosh, people who have no faith and listen, we live in a society where in this country, at least you're free to believe or not believe whatever when it comes to your religion or, you know, not having a religion, whatever it is.

But I do think people have this common theme of wanting to feel well-being. They want to feel peace. Nobody likes chaos other than those who are really up to no good. So you talk about how God is, you know, he wants to bring peace. He wants to bring harmony. And that's in so many different ways within the church, within society. I think he he wants to heal. But the things that you bring up are really controversial. Do you worry that you'll alienate some fans?

Or if you say that, you know what, I've counted the costs. This is what I believe. And that's what I'm going to say. I think that I would say yes to all, to both of those. I would say, yes, there are some people that are mad. Yes, there are some people that feel alienated, which I don't want to do. But yes, I think that if I don't speak now, I truly believe that

That I will look back and say, John, why did you waste your time? You could have helped other you could have helped so many people. I view it like this. I really believe that we are on the cusp of the next transformational, you know, like they say, when the Industrial Revolution happened.

It was a worldwide transformational moment for Western civilization, I should say, really. And we look at it and we go, okay, what did people think before then? What did people think after then? How did it change the world? We see that with the Internet coming in. It transformed the world. I believe we are on the cusp of the end of Western civilization, the way that we view reality. And that's why I say to people, you don't have to be a Christian to

to read this book or to understand what I'm saying, I'm not trying to force you to believe all the things that I believe in. For people who think that Western civilization is good

and that the worldview is good, that is so tied into Judeo-Christian worldview, into the Bible. It doesn't mean you have to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and he died and paid the penalty for our sins and rose from the dead and that sort of thing. You don't have to believe that in order to understand that Western civilization came from God.

the Bible, and that it has produced the freest, most prosperous, best civilization in the history of the world, and created the most freedom for people to believe what they want to believe, you know, and for tolerance and things like that. So yes, some people feel that way, but I truly believe, you know, just like when I look back and I say, man, how come Christians didn't

Well, is that fair? Sorry, let me rewind. How come more Christians didn't speak out against slavery? Now, we know that the abolitionist movement was started by Christians, and the Quakers, and these wonderful people that stood up for justice and wanted to end slavery. But man, would it be awesome if we could look back and say, look at that. The entire...

American church was in one voice against this evil, man, that would be amazing. What if we could look back with MLK and say, look, the entire church was in one voice marching to end segregation. That would be amazing. I think we're going to look back on this and say, how come the church was not in one voice speaking against the incredible evils that we see in American culture right now?

Well, it's all in the book. The book is Wimpy, Weak, and Woke, How Truth Can Save America from Utopian Destruction. Talking about things like objective reality versus subjective feelings. A lot of these really hot button topics. John?

jumps right into them. And you can check out the book yourself. You can also find them on Twitter at John L. Cooper, on Instagram at John L. Cooper. Facebook is John L. Cooper Stuff. And the podcast is Cooper Stuff Podcast. John, it's been really nice to meet you virtually. And I hope that I get to a skillet concert very soon.

Oh, I sure. If you do, we'll have Chick-fil-A together. And I would love to. Can I just point people to my website? Yes, tell us. OK, John L. Cooper dot com is the only place you can get the physical book. So if you want a physical book, John L. Cooper dot com. I published it on my own. That's what that's why. And if you you can get the Kindle version on Amazon.

Okay, folks, you need to go check it out. Tell us what you think. We always love to hear your feedback and I'm sure John would too. So John, thanks for making time to be with us on Live in the Bream. I sure loved it. Thank you for having me. Listen ad-free with the Fox News Podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts and Amazon Prime members can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon Music app.

This is Jimmy Fallon inviting you to join me for Fox Across America, where we'll discuss every single one of the Democrats' dumb ideas. Just kidding. It's only a three-hour show. Listen live at noon Eastern or get the podcast at foxacrossamerica.com.