Pastor Lucado On Living Through The End Of This Age
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It's time to take the quiz. Five questions, five minutes a day, five days a week. Take the quiz every weekday at thequiz.fox and then listen to the quiz podcast to find out how you did. Play, share, and of course, listen to the quiz at thequiz.fox. It's Live in the Bream with the host of Fox News Sunday, Shannon Bream. I am so excited to have the man I call the greatest encourager out there in the world today. That's

That's how I feel about it. He helped get us through COVID. He's gotten us through generations of things in his years as a pastor, a best-selling author, and just a world-class inspirer. That's a new word I'm going to make if it doesn't exist. And we are going to talk to him about his brand new book today, What Happens Next? A Traveler's Guide Through the End of This Age. Pastor Max Lucado, welcome back.

back to live in the brain oh it's my it's my honor I think inspirer should be a word if it fits anyone it definitely fits you so you're very kind I know a few things get me as excited in the book world is when I see there's a new book coming from you and

And this really could not be more timely. As I always like to say, you really are such a good, encouraging person, not in a fluffy, you know, just kind of blowing smoke sort of way, but really, you know, at the core why we do have reasons for hope. And so in this new book, you're talking through a lot of what people feel like are very divided times. Maybe these are the end times, as Christians refer to them and in other faiths as well.

But you say, we don't have to be scared. We can be prepared. Tell us about this new book. Well, the beauty about the Bible, by the way, Shannon, thank you again for letting me have a few minutes on your program. The beauty of the Bible in a variety of things is, one, it gives us a timeline. It describes...

what God's intent is with history. It tells us that we're not a part of an endless cycle of meaningless events, but that God is directing history stage by stage, milestone by milestone, toward a wonderful climatic end.

We need that hope today. You look at the statistics with teenagers battling anxiety and unprecedented proportions with the suicide rate higher than it's been since World War II. We're divided, we're anxious, we're troubled.

And I do believe that God's solution is to tell us what happens next, to help us break free from feeling trapped in this life and to raise our hope and expectation about the next life. And you do focus on hope. So we'll work through that acronym because I think anything to help people kind of remember hope.

They'll get a lot more information in the book, but we'll talk about at least the framework for that. And it comes at a time when people look around and they see so many of the things that you mentioned. We see wars around the world. We see so much internal division among our own families and neighbors over domestic political issues. We see mental health crises. We see drug overdoses. I mean, it feels like a really rough moment in history, but it's not that we haven't been here before. And there is a way forward.

Absolutely. I like to compare it to being stuck on the tarmac in a plane that's grounded. We've all had that happen. Some time ago I had it happen and I was stuck on the Chicago tarmac for four hours. And the storm was raging, the lightning was flashing, and the planes were lined up. We couldn't go back to the airport, but we couldn't get off the plane. And it was a stifling experience.

And what we needed is the pilot to come over the intercom more often and tell us what's going on. I think as people, we feel trapped. We feel suffocated. There's a sense that we can't get off the ground in our lives. In the gospel, the promise of God through the gospel is that he is preparing for himself a people with whom he will counsel.

reign over the universe, reign in the universe forever, where there'll be no sin, no bitterness, no rancor, no regrets, no anger. It'll be a perfect place and we'll be in perfected bodies. What God began in the Garden of Eden is a picture of what will happen in the end.

And one of the consistent messages of Scripture, Shannon, is that we are made to set our hope on that. Scripture uses phrases like fix your eyes on things to come or set your affection on things to come. It's a decision.

that believers make to focus more on what is coming than what is happening. Because as we focus on what's next, we find courage to face what's happening now. And I think that's really what we need is some courage to face these challenges that we're in.

Yeah. And if you believe that the story ends with good, ultimately triumph over evil, it does give you that courage and that assurance that you can move forward through what every day now brings, which for some people, you know, you don't want to open your phone or open your front door. I mean, you just don't know what's coming at you right now. So we're talking with Pastor Max Licato about his new book, What Happens Next: A Traveler's Guide Through the End of This Age.

So let's start with hope because you say there's plenty there. H is hang in there. Remember, God is with us now. Mm hmm.

O would be optimism. We have every reason to believe that God will set things right. One of my favorite scriptures is that these brief and momentary struggles are not worth comparing with the glory that outweighs them all. Now, when somebody's passing through health struggles, as many of us have, they don't feel brief and momentary. But in perspective of heaven, they do.

And so we have every reason to have hope. You know, the Bible says that this life is like a vapor, Shannon. It's just here now and it's gone tomorrow. I used to illustrate this in sermons by just lighting a match and letting the smoke dissipate. The fire marshal doesn't like me to light matches anymore in church. But I say, there's your life right there. So hang on. It's going to be okay.

In the meantime, pray. There's our P. We just pray. Pray it through. Keep asking God for help and let our focus be on eternal life. The truth is God has no greater plans for you than no one has greater plans for you than God does. And nobody believes in you more than God does. The lie that says God hates you or God's angry or God doesn't care, that's straight from the pit of hell.

The truth is God loves the world, and he loves the people in the world. And understanding what he has in store activates and energizes and fuels this faith that we need. I love studying end times.

because it gets me excited. God didn't tell us what's about to happen to scare us, but just to prepare us, to get us ready, to alert us, and to help us understand these are tough times. But God said that it would get tough in the end. And so we're not surprised. And we're trusting that he has his hand on the wheel and that he will get us home, get us out of here in the right time, in the right way.

Yeah, that E, explore eternity, really does make you set your mind on things above, as you said. And we do have so many encouragements to do that, to run our race and to look ahead to God's promises. This morning I was reading...

you know, along these lines, um, that when the world seems overwhelming, that we do have this eternal promise. And if you can focus on that, and as you said, that vapor, that little whiff of a match, that little bit of smoke is, um, you know, the, the,

very briefest of times, although, as you said, wisely, when we are in it, it does feel difficult. And for everybody who is struggling or worried now, we get that. We all, I think, have those days, even probably the most encouraging human being I know, Pastor Lakedo. Now, you mentioned that you like end times, and I got to say, when I was a

You know, a lot of evangelical churches had these movies back in the 70s. I think you refer to them to, you know, sort of the distant thunder and in this trio of movies that took you through what would happen with the rapture and with the tribulation. And I found it terrifying. Now, I didn't really want to dig into it too much because I was so frightened by that.

But I have a stepfather who is prophecy is his thing. And he loves studying Daniel and Ezekiel and Matthew and all of these places where he very much is the same attitude that you have. Like, let's embrace what we know and what we can plan for and what we can try to understand. But there's some people who are very intimidated by the whole eschatology thing.

Absolutely. Eschatology is to the Bible what the Serengeti is to Africa. You know, it's wild, it's untamed, it's full of

peculiar turns in the road and symbols and numbers. Consequently, many people back away from it and don't study in times. And also, conversely, some people major in it in a negative way, Shannon. We've all heard of people who seem to know more about the return of Christ than Christ does. And they set dates and they make declarations. And that's not very good either.

But somewhere in between, I think, is that healthy disciple who is open to understanding everything God teaches, but willing to trust to live with a certain ambiguity on the issues that God does not teach.

What I tried to do in this book, I pray I accomplished it. We'll see. Is create an approachable, embraceable book on end times, maybe end times 101.

that would lead a person through the timeline of history, starting with the Garden of Eden, continuing with the covenants God made in the Old Testament, the prophecies made specifically through Daniel, and then the next big events, the series of events that fascinate us, perhaps bewilder us, like the Rapture, the Tribulation, Paradise, the Return of Christ, the Great White Throne Judgment,

and then heaven itself, what our eternal state will be like. I find it just delightful. Maybe it's because I'm getting old, Shannon, and I know my clock is really ticking faster, it seems. I really want to know what happens next. I really do. I'm just fascinated, and I'm genuinely excited. Nothing brings me...

more joy than to think of going into paradise and experiencing the presence of Christ and the time with my loved ones and the perfect body that he has prepared for us. And I would love for other people to have that excitement about what is about to happen. We're living in a world, nobody knows this better than you, in which we're counting so much on a particular election to solve our problems.

I truly believe that believers should be politically engaged, but we don't need to trust any particular leader, politician, or party to do for us what only God can do, and that is to bring peace to our lives and to bring the hope of eternity to our future. So I'm praying that this book is an encouragement to people in that way.

It is so true and such a good reminder. And I think because I'm knee deep in it all day, every day, I do have to step back and really pray like, Lord, don't ever let me be caught up in the politics for finding, as you said, my peace or my purpose or my place. This is so transitory. And whoever wins or loses, my husband's very good at this, kind of like it doesn't matter to me who wins or loses. I'm going to live my life.

I know God's promises and I'm just going to keep putting one foot in front of the other and we have his peace and his promise over us. So good reminder for all of us, especially in a political year. We'll have more live in the Bream in a moment. From the Fox News Podcast Network. Stay on top of the latest news and information from Fox News. Listen and download the Fox News hourly update on your time. The trending stories you need anytime you want it. Listen and download now by going to foxnewspodcast.com.

So let me ask you this, some specific things. You mentioned the rapture and oh boy, this was a big debate for me growing up and people will, you know, there are many books written on it and some really good ones that will walk you through the timing when you, are you pre-trib or mid-trib or post-trib for, you know, evangelicals out there. This is a conversation we have a lot.

Is that important, being able to nail down timing or a theory? Or should we be thinking more broadly about the end times when it comes to discussions about the rapture? Well, it really helps me and has helped me to zoom out just a bit, Shannon, and look at the rapture.

purpose of first what the Bible calls the millennium. I think I failed to mention that when I was walking your audience through the timeline. And really, the millennium is a core element of

of the teaching of Scripture regarding end times. The millennium refers to a thousand-year reign of Christ on earth in which he will fulfill what he promised in the Garden of Eden, and that is a perfect world in which we are reigning with him in perfected bodies with perfect relationships with one another and perfect relationship with God.

This is what was offered to Adam and Eve, and they enjoyed it for a time, but then they fell. And consequently, we do not see ourselves in the role of Adam and Eve as we were intended to be.

Adam and Eve may have changed their mind, but God never changed His. And I think what we study in Revelation chapter 20 about the millennium is really, really important because that's the direction we're headed in which Christ will reign on earth for that thousand years. And I acknowledge there's many different interpretations of Revelation chapter 20. This book reveals, or at least deposits the one that seems to be more reliable than others.

Now, prior to the millennium, there will be seven years of trouble on earth, and the Bible calls this a tribulation. And boy, we can see how this happens. You know, it is a time in which the whole world just spins into chaos. And the reason it spins into chaos, and now I'm getting toward an answer to your question, is because of the rapture. I believe that Jesus loves his church, and he will come for his church before that chaos begins.

and the absence of the church on earth will contribute to the chaos because people will wonder what happened to all the people.

And so it seems to me that this rapture, this rescue of God, of the church, in which we will be caught up to meet Christ in the clouds, will be reunited with all those who have gone before. The graves will be vacated. Our bodies will be perfected. We'll be healed forever. What a moment. It'll be the greatest miracle, the greatest miracle, second only to the resurrection of Christ.

And that will happen, I believe, prior to this tribulation. I believe that for many reasons, one of which is that Jesus compared it to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. And Noah was rescued prior to the flood, and Lot was rescued prior to the turmoil at Sodom and Gomorrah.

But these are discussions that we'll continue to have until the end. It, however, seems right to me to say we're going to be raptured before that terrible tribulation happens. But that tribulation will also see a revival, and that revival will be fascinating to behold, and we'll return with Christ at the end of those seven years, and then the millennium will begin.

Okay. So I would imagine many of the listeners are going, what in the world? I was just going to say, just going to say to somebody who has stumbled upon this podcast and, you know, you're not as well versed and believe me, have tons to learn. But I've grown up with this kind of conversation in this language and pastor, you've been teaching about it for decades and,

but they're like, this sounds like some crazy sci-fi weird movie stuff. I mean, do you guys really believe this? How in the world, you know, is the world to digest what we are talking about? Well, as believers, we do believe in miraculous interventions by God. We do believe that he opened the Red Sea, that he dropped manna from heaven, that he led the children of Israel,

out of captivity. We do believe that Elijah witnessed the fire from heaven on Mount Carmel. And most of all, we believe that God became flesh and he became a human being and he loved us, he taught us,

He died for us, and he rose from the grave to show us that we too. So I'm saying that to say we do believe in mighty interventions. Now, for some reason, it's a little more palatable to believe in the interventions of the past than it is for us to envision more interventions in the future. And I get that. It does stretch the imagination.

But I would say to those who struggle with making room for the rapture, just keep in mind that our God is a God of great miracles. He is a God of great miracles. And whether we've got things figured out toward exactly what's going to happen in the sequence correct, that's secondary to the fact that we believe in a God who's coming for us, who's going to make all things right, and who will indeed...

have that eternity that he has promised in which we will reign with him forever. Pastor, was there anything new or surprising to you in this book? And tell me which book, what number are we at now?

Well, I think this is number 45. My secret is quantity, not quality. No, no. I would say both. You've got both. That's why I'm wondering if you've discovered anything new with all of the studying and writing you've done. I had never heard a sermon or written a sermon on paradise.

And when I submitted this manuscript to my publisher, they said, okay, so if you're saying the next major event on God's calendar is the rapture, what happens to a person if they die before the rapture or those...

hundreds of millions of people who have died since the ascension of Christ up until today. Where are they? And I realized, yeah, I left something big out there. And so I crafted a chapter and dove into this whole topic of paradise. Now, when Jesus died on the cross and the thief on the cross asked him,

Remember me when you come into your kingdom. Jesus said to the thief, today you'll be with me in paradise. So paradise is the place where the soul of the believer goes instantly, immediately. Jesus said, today you'll be with me and you'll be with me in paradise. John Newton said that paradise is almost heaven, but not quite.

Almost heaven, but not quite. John Wesley called it the front porch of heaven. And so it has the characteristics of our eternal state, but not the absolute presentation of our eternal state. Your loved ones and my loved ones, your friends and mine who've already passed in to paradise are experiencing unspeakable joy. There's no sin. There's no regret. There's

There's no fear. There's perfect harmony between them and God, between them and each other. They are

what we call the great cloud of witnesses. Well, I say what we call, what the Bible calls in Hebrews 12, the great cloud of witnesses. That to me suggests that they are participating somehow in urging us forward, continually pulling for us, praying for us and urging that we finish the race with faith. They are not, they

They do not have their physical body yet. That will happen at the rapture. At the rapture, their spirit and their body will be joined together, and they will be given what we call a glorified body, a perfected body, just like Jesus had when he rose from the dead. He had a body that was imperishable. It would never die. And that's the kind of body that we will be given. But right now, when a person goes into paradise, they go within their spirit.

We believe this for many reasons. One is a story in the New Testament about a rich man and a poor man. The rich man, we don't have his name, but the poor man, as you know, is Lazarus. And Lazarus was so poor that he ate the scraps from the rich man's table. When they died, their destinies were reversed. The rich man went to Hades.

which is the opposite of, it's the holding place for those who have rejected Christ, just like paradise is the holding place for those who have said yes to Christ.

the poor man went into paradise, and the Scripture says he went to Abraham's bosom, which is a beautiful poetic way of saying that he went into the presence of Abraham and was comforted. He was held. He was nourished. He was healed. Here we have the most famous Jew, second only to Jesus, holding this poor beggar.

And he is in the presence of everybody in paradise in Abraham's bosom. That's such an encouragement to us who have lost loved ones. And we know they went into heaven with wounds. They went into heaven with hurts. They went into paradise with pain. But all of that dissipates. All of that's checked at the door when they head into paradise.

And so paradise, yes, is that holding place for the saved until we are reunited at the rapture. And then after the rapture, we'll be recognized by Christ and wed to Christ, and then we'll return with Christ to reign with him in the millennium.

Pastor, I cannot wait to read this book. It's out August 13th. It's called What Happens Next? A Traveler's Guide Through the End of This Age. I'm always encouraged by your writing, but I also always learn from your writing. And I have no doubt from our conversation that's going to happen with this book too. Pastor Max Licato, always such an honor and a privilege to spend a little bit of time with you. Thank you for this new book that you've given us to give us hope and to teach us a few things too.

Well, Shannon, thank you. We think of you often, pray for you often. We're so proud of you. We pray that God will stabilize you and give you the strength to fulfill this unique assignment that he has given to you in your life. Thank you, Pastor, and God bless you. Thank you for giving us another turn on Live in the Bream. Listen ad-free with a Fox News Podcast Plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. And Amazon Prime members can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon Music app.

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