Put People Pleasing In The Past
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It's Live in the Bream with the host of Fox News Sunday, Shannon Bream. All right, this week on Live in the Bream, I am so excited to have this next guest and her new book because...

As I've told her, I felt like I could have written these words myself. And I am still working through a lot of the things that she has outlined in this book, which I think are so helpful. And I think for so many people listening, if you have a seed of this in your life and it's something that you're working through, you'll be so encouraged by these words.

And you'll really get some practical steps forward too in tackling this part of your life. So Ginger Duggar Volo, you know her. She grew up on TV. You remember her on reality shows like 19 Kids and Counting. She's a New York Times bestselling author. Becoming Free Indeed was her personal memoir. And The Hope We Hold. She's got a children's book, You Can Shine So Bright. And she's got this brand new book that I love, People Pleaser. Ginger, welcome to Live in the Brahim.

Thank you so much, Shannon. Thanks for having me. So, gosh, you and I had very similar childhoods. I was not on TV. I didn't have a reality show or 19 kids in my family, but we both grew up in this situation where we were taught some things in church. Well, you know, I think a lot of it was all well-intentioned and I had, you know, godly mama who was raising me and following scripture and doing all these things. But there were other teachings that came along that I think you and I both along the way

somehow figured out weren't completely in line with scripture and it's really hard to raise your hand and say wait a minute I've got some questions here but you've done that and it takes courage to do that walk us through that a bit yeah for sure it was interesting uh like you said just growing up in a setting where you do have so much truth you have been given parents that

that love you and have sought to do what they thought was best for you. And I think that growing up in a setting that I did, there was a lot of disentangling I had to do. As I got older, I started to realize, oh, wow, like these teachings that I grew up under aren't accurate. They're not based in the Bible, even though this teacher is claiming to speak for God.

Um, and so I had to work through a lot of that. And as a people pleaser, it was very difficult to want to speak up. I think that was one thing that I realized the more that I got into the book writing process with my previous book, Becoming Free Indeed, which basically broke down those teachings and exposed them as error. It was hard for me to speak up in that time because I felt like if I did, I was going to be

ruining relationships, disappointing people. And as a people pleaser, I was the last person who wanted to do that. Exactly. You don't want conflict. You want everybody to be happy. And you want everybody to be in harmony if you are this people pleaser kind of person. And so much of what you and I

heard in some of the common things that we were taught as young women and young girls was that you weren't even to ask questions. I mean, even that was considered disrespectful or rebellious in some ways. So it's really hard as a people pleaser then to do exactly what you're doing, which is to step up and ask hard questions of yourself, of people that you trusted. And if people who've been set out as an authority to you, and that was the thing, don't question authority.

Yes, I think that's exactly right. Because in that setting, it did not encourage good conversation and asking those hard questions. And I think that

Once you do, you start to ask the difficult questions, then that theology kind of falls apart and you realize, okay, this was not based in the Bible. And as a people pleaser, I kind of wanted to just remain silent. I thought this is the easiest thing to do. I have a decent relationship with family and friends still in that setting. Maybe I'll just go live my life and do how I see it in scripture and find freedom in

even in the word of God for myself. But that was, it was difficult because once I saw that this was so damaging, it was so harmful, it was cult-like in many ways, I realized, okay, I need to speak up. And it was hard. I think that that actually drove me in that book writing process. I started realizing how much of a people pleaser I was. And it propelled me to write the second book here because this book

has just, it kind of follows a thread that was woven throughout Becoming Free Indeed

And it's being able to speak up for the vulnerable. And as a people pleaser, often we think it just affects us. I can live in isolation and it won't affect anybody around me. Or I can go and be, you know, even a serial server, as I call them. They do all the things to please everybody around them. But what is the motivation? Why am I doing what I'm doing? Is it out of desperation for that person's approval? Or is it to keep them?

everybody happy with me to just remain totally at peace with everyone around me. Well, that's not always the most loving thing to do. And so I think as I started on this journey and this process of being able to speak up when I need to, to let people into my life when it's a little bit messy, that started to break. I was able to break free from some of those chains of people pleasing.

Yeah. And listen, when you are a people pleaser, it's really convenient for people around you a lot of times because you are the one who will do what it takes to keep the peace. Or like you said, you super serve and you want to do things. And

And I mean, I was probably in my 30s when I started figuring some of this stuff out, thinking I really enjoy doing certain things for people, bringing baked goods to work or doing whatever it was. And then there came a point where I thought, am I doing this just because I love these people and really want to serve them? That's what I've always felt like it was. But then I realized part of it is, no, I want people to like me. And so...

Some of the things I'm doing that I feel like are kind and nice and sweet for other people is really my own insecurity of trying to say like, oh, I want these people to like me. So let me do nice things for them. And it gets you into a really tricky spiral because you and I as women of faith, as Christians, as believers, we do believe we're supposed to serve other people and Christ has given us to that. Yes.

And you talk about how it can be confusing, like where that line is, you know, doing what you're called to do and definitely were called into service to other people versus exhausting and doing yourself with wrong motivations just to try to keep the peace.

Exactly. And I think that whenever we see there is that in scripture, we see that we are to lay down our lives for others, serve them as Christ did. And Christ came and served us in a way where he laid down his life for us, asking for nothing in return. We couldn't offer him anything. And I think that that is the exact way that we can see as flawed as we are, we can see, okay, I want to look at other people and say, okay,

I want to serve you not based on what you can give me, not what I can get out of you because that ultimately is selfish. It's manipulative to like just use people that way. And so that is the struggle. It is a battle because we also realize like it's not a bad thing to want to be liked because we were designed for community and it was something that God created as a beautiful gift.

And it's only been flawed because of sin entering the world. And we realize that. But looking at the bigger picture of wanting that community, but wanting it for the right reasons and done in the right way to love and serve others is

And from a satisfied place. Yeah, not not in a way that wants a pat on the back or an approval or a confirmation that we're on the right path and we're doing the right thing. It really is out of just a servant's heart being grateful for the abundant grace that we've been given and seeing needs around us and wanting to meet those because our you know, we have been given so much and

And we are called to share that with others. Now, something else you talk about in here I'm a little bit guilty of. You talk about there was a point where you would even be nervous about people coming to your home because in the event, if the food, your kids, if everything's not perfect, you don't want to open yourself up to the critique versus saying,

Listen, you're in a bad place. Come over. I'll order pizza. You know, we should be comfortable enough and not have to worry about the the, you know, perfection, people pleasing part of our home, our life, our image, to the point that we aren't there for people in moments of need or just everyday life.

Exactly. I think that is a struggle. And especially for women, I think that we put a lot of pressure on ourselves. That's why the subtitle of my book is talking about imaginary expectations, because often we are the ones who put those expectations on ourselves to be a certain way. So yes, I share a couple stories in the book about that.

instances where a young college girl wanted to come over last minute or my friend who has a little one wanted to come over and there were like dry Cheerios on the floor and my friend's baby started eating them. And I was like, oh goodness, who knows if those are probably like a day old and she's like picking Cheerios off my floor. And in that moment, I was instantly regretting letting them

come over when my house wasn't perfect because I thought, goodness, like you're walking over toys. It's a mess. I don't have makeup on. And it's just this performance mindset that we can fall into. I think with social media now, it's growing and it's increasing. So you'll have

so many opportunities to compare yourself with others, to feel like you are only going to be loved or accepted if you look a certain way, if you present yourself a certain way in perfection. And I think that that is

definitely something that will rob us of true, genuine friendship because we're trading down from what is most important. From the genuine relationship, we're afraid that if we let somebody into our house, then we will be judged based upon what they see. And I think that the opposite is true because in my life, I remember whenever I invited people over into the mess of

And there were often, those were the greatest friendships that developed through it because it was like a last minute phone call or text or somebody was desperate, they needed prayer and help. And they come over and I don't have everything perfect all the time. I wish I did. I like a clean house. Don't get me wrong. We're not slobs. But at the same time, I think that there's a balance in that because I was doing it out of pride, out of wanting to have everything together for them to see me as a perfect person.

Once I let go of that, true, genuine friendship started to develop. I was able to say, hey, I'm having a hard day. Can you pray for me and ask a friend for help to reach out when I was in need to let them into my mess and then also to be able to invest in others? And I think that the lie that we can often believe is I have to have it all together before I can even reach out and help somebody else.

And ultimately, that's just not how life works because we will never feel like we have all the answers for that college student who stops by. We'll never feel like we are able to help this other mom out when she's in a time of need because we're also in the same overwhelmed stage ourselves. But when we realize that that's what community is, true community is letting people into your life,

whenever it's hard, whenever it's joyful, in all of those times, it's a gift from God to have that community. And so it's not a bad thing to want it. But like we said, the desperation is what we don't want to see. We'll have more Live in the Bream in a moment.

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We're talking to Ginger Duggar Volo. Her brand new book, People Pleaser, is out now, breaking free from the burden of imaginary expectations. And if you're not a people pleaser, you probably know someone who is or have one in your family. And you may not realize what a burden this sometimes can feel like on people. And I know, Ginger, I think for you, I know for me,

There were times this translated into my relationship with the Lord as well, feeling like, gosh, he's got to be so disappointed. Like he knows me. He knows all the bad stuff I do, the thoughts and this and that and the other, the deeds, the words.

You know, he's got to disapprove of me. And it took me a long time to really believe that this love is unconditional. He knows everything I've done and he still sacrificed for me and was willing to say, you're redeemable. You know, I love you. But I feel like as a people pleaser, it did cause me some spiritual struggle too. Oh, yes. A hundred percent. And I think growing up in the teachings of Bill Gothard under that, that

that teaching really affected how I viewed teaching

my relationship with God. I viewed him not as a loving heavenly father, but as a taskmaster. And I think that that was something that I had to work through. And I remember even a teaching that I was taught was that before you can come to God, before you can bring God into this mess, you need to do certain steps to get to that place. And that was not something my parents taught me, but it was one of the teachings of Bill Gothard. And it's interesting because that perspective and view of

is so warped. And as a people pleaser, you think, "Oh yeah, I have to keep my life perfect before I can come to God. And so if I have a good day, maybe I can pray and ask God for help. But if I'm having a rough day or I've sinned or I've had a bad attitude, then I can't come to Him." And I think that that can be a huge thing that you struggle with as a people pleaser is that view of God. And so realizing that

God is a loving Heavenly Father that we can come to Him in our brokenness just as we want our kids to come to us when they're having a tough time or if they've even if they've had a really rough day and been yelling and screaming all day. It's like, "No, I still love you. You don't have to perform. I'm your parent. I will always love you." And so I think that is a turning point when we can view God as loving Heavenly Father. It changes everything.

It really does. So how has this process, this discovery, this working on this, how has it brought you freedom personally, spiritually in your relationships?

Oh, yes. In every way. I think even with my relationship with my husband, when we were first married, I was afraid to speak up. Part of that was the teachings I was raised under. The other side of it was just people pleasing. I was afraid that our arguments or not arguments, even just disagreements, things we would talk about, like he would ask me, where do you want to go to dinner? I'd be like, wherever you want to go. And he's like, just tell me what you want. Just actually, I want to know who you are. So being able to realize there's freedom in being able to

talk through things and work through it. And then in community, it's been huge because I would not let people in for so long.

And I would fear the rejection and fear that I couldn't let them see me for who I truly was. But once I started to break down those barriers of people pleasing, now I have genuine friends who I can call up about anything and just share my heart with them. And they are there to love me, pray for me, and I can pour into them as well at the same time. And so that's something that I was missing for so long. And I craved friendship and relationship before.

But at what cost? And I think that that's something that has totally changed. And I'm so grateful today that I have so many close friends. And then my relationship with the Lord has just been growing. There's been so much that He has been teaching me in this process, just to trust Him and to not be afraid to come to Him.

What about for you has changed about issues of conflict or feeling like you need to push back or stand up or say something? Things that I have gotten slightly better at, I feel like over time, but it used to be like, oh, I don't want any conflict at all. And it was a really hard process to get to the point where like, no, if something is not truthful or something...

is damaging or whatever, you know, I have a voice to speak up to this thing in my personal life or relationships or whatever it is. What's that process been like for you? Yeah, it hasn't been easy. I think that, like I said, going back to my book, when I wrote Becoming Free Indeed, that was such a fearful time for me. I struggled and wrestled through it. I knew I had to speak up, but I didn't want to in many ways.

And once I realized, okay, this is what I'm convinced I'm going to do. You have to just be willing to put your head down, do the work, do the hard things, say what needs to be said. And at the end of the day, I think that if it's done in a winsome way, in a loving way, that will only...

show to be what was needed. And I think that I was afraid of the rejection of the conflict that would come. And there was a lot of that. And at the end of the day, before God, I could say, oh, this was what was right. I needed to speak up for the vulnerable. I need to speak up for those who are still being taught these harmful teachings. And it was difficult with relationships that I did lose over it.

And at the end of the day, I looked, I can look back and say, I can see how much growth has happened through that experience. And it's given me a stronger voice to speak up and to not be afraid of what other people think. And so I think that the more steps you take to speak up and just for the vulnerable, speak up for what you know is right and true, then that will just grow your confidence as you move forward.

mm-hmm so this book people pleaser also includes a people pleaser quiz so some people may not realize this is some kind of the some of the friction or the things that they are dealing with is actually this I mean who was this book for what are people gonna learn

Yeah, I wanted this to be for anybody who struggles with people pleasing, who has just wrestled with that for all of their life or they know somebody who does. I think that at some point or another, we will all have those wrestlings or we will be an over serial server. Like I said, you're doing all the things so it doesn't look like you're people pleasing.

Because you're so involved. But ultimately, it's going back to that heart motivation. This is for anybody who wants to love others well from a place where they're satisfied, where they're not desperate for that approval. And I think...

And I think that the People Pleaser, like the assessment at the end of the chapter, each chapter, there's a little section that says, "Let's chat about it," and has personal questions you can ask yourself when it's just between you and God and you're there, just being real and open and saying, "Okay, what do I need to work through? How have I been people pleasing? And how can I grow and change?"

So this is really for anybody who has struggled with that in the past or they know somebody who has. It is out now, People Pleaser by Ginger Duggar Volo. If people want to find it, tell us where they can find the book and more about what's going on in your life. I know you have baby number three on the way. Yes, yes. So the book is available wherever books are sold. I have the Audible audiobook, which is out as well if you're more into the audiobooks.

And, yeah, we are just enjoying the season of life. I am happily married to my sweet husband for eight years, Jeremy. And then we have three kids. Well, I say three because I have one on the way. Two girls. Felicity is six. Evangeline is four. And then we have a little boy on the way.

Oh, congratulations. Are they so excited? They are so stoked. Yes. Felicity is the take charge type of temperament. So I think that she's going to keep this little one in line. So it's really, really sweet. Yeah, they're stoked. And are you guys on social media and other places that they could? We are. Yes. Yes, for sure. So we have the Ginger and Jeremy podcast.

And that is on Instagram. And then also my personal Instagram is at Ginger Volo. And that's Ginger with a J because all my siblings were with J's. And we, yeah, we are on there. We have a website as well, gingerandjeremy.com. So I think that's pretty much all the places you can find us. Well, congratulations on the new book and the new baby. And thanks for dropping in on Live in the Bream. God bless you.

Thanks. Appreciate it, Shannon. Listen ad-free with the Fox News Podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. And Amazon Prime members can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon Music app. Fox News Audio presents the Fox Nation Investigates podcast, Evil Next Door. Exploring the life and crimes of five serial predators from across the United States. Follow and listen starting February 25th at foxtruecrime.com.