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It's Live in the Bream with the host of Fox News Sunday, Shannon Bream. This week on Live in the Bream, this is one of the things I love that I get to do is to talk to people who I read their book, I can't put it down, and then I say, well, let's have them on the pod.
I read his book.
Why do I do what I don't want to do? Replacing the deadly vices with life-giving virtues. JP, welcome to Live in the Bream. It's so great to be on here. Thanks for having me on friend. Okay, so listen, I went on vacation in March and I always like to take a couple books with me because it's the only time I'm reading that it's not for work. I picked up this book because I thought, oh, I'm intrigued by that. I start underlining it and I'm telling my husband while I'm sitting there by the pool,
I am underlining more things that I'm not underlining. There's more text that's underlined than not in this book. It just really made so much sense to me. And you are open and sharing your story where you came from all of your life. I love the transparency. But walk us through what this process was about, what you want people to get through all the things that you shared and how we can stop doing stuff we know is not good for us.
Yeah, well, that means a lot. That's quite the encouragement there. And I do not enjoy reading. And so I'm not a big reader. People are like, read for fun. I'm like, oh, that's never been super fun. So when I write a book, I always think like, I want to write a book that I would like to read that's going to try to hold my attention. And I...
I didn't grow, I mean, I grew up in the church, but kind of the cool kid word right now is deconstruction. Deconstruction for me looked like kind of erasing the whiteboard and just starting over saying, all right, what do I really believe about God? And I went really broad and I started looking at just international faith of the world
and so I didn't really learn to play church games, if you will. And so sometimes I'll say things and people are like, gosh, you can't say that. And I'm like, well, I didn't know that. No one ever taught me that I couldn't be honest with my story or share all the gritty details. So as I write about my own journey and experience, I mean, that's kind of really what you're seeing on the page. And when I read
John 10:10, you know, the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. But Jesus says, I have come so that you might have life and have it abundantly or have it to the fullest. I'm like, man, so much of church today and faith today feels like we get stuck in that first category, the defense of, oh, I don't you know, I want to fight the enemy and I don't want to sin. And how do I stay away from that when it seems to me that Jesus is really calling us to a full life?
And so the whole book is bifurcated between these two ideas, the vice and the virtue. And really the premise is if you pursue the virtue, you'll avoid the vice. If you get stuck at just trying to avoid the vice, I think you're going to lose a lot of life and a lot of fun and experience and all of the things that
that are, you know, that it means to live as a human being. But if we pursue the virtue and we say, all right, this is, I'm going to fix my eyes over here, then I think we avoid the vice altogether. Yeah. And you talk about how, you know, we so often as human beings will run towards momentary pleasure to instant gratification. Our society is all about that. And so it's really hard to stop if we're just kind of living, pursuing those selfish things that
we are fed and tempted with and encouraged to do every day. Like what do, what makes you happy? Do what makes you feel good? Don't worry about yourself, those kinds of things. But what you're talking about, some people would say, I don't want all these rules and that kind of thing. But what you're arguing is you actually set yourself free to
from these impulses and things that drag us into places that eventually we realize we don't want to go, that there's actually freedom and a lightness to being able to get those things, those encumberments off of our backs. Yeah. When my daughter was five years old, she was, our daughter was going into kindergarten for the first time. I told her if she could make it the entire year without getting in trouble, she could get a pet. And I thought it was a really safe bet because I
I know. I thought I made it. I made it like two hours, you know, so I'm like, surely she can't. But we got to the end of the year and she had gone the entire year without, you know, having to change her color name on the board or whatever they did.
And so we went to the pet store and I'm, you know, everybody's thinking dog or cat, but I'm smarter than that. We went with the bird. She got a parakeet and a parakeet named Turquoise. And Turquoise loved his cage. And so she would get him out of the cage and he would just fly back to his cage. And I get it because it's like bird heaven in there. You know, it's got all the food and all the toys and all the things, the mirror and all that.
And so he just loved his cage. Well, we kind of became a bird family, which is weird. But people, you know, the rumors spread. Word got out. Hey, they love birds. And a bird flew into a church building, into a window and kind of knocked himself out as a parrot.
And they called us and they said, hey, can you home this parrot? And so it was a green parrot and we named it Emerald. Well, Emerald conversely hated his cage, her cage. She wanted nothing to do with the cage. And in fact, if you put her in her cage, she would escape. She figured out how to get out.
And I say that because turquoise has lived a very long, healthy, birdy life, the one that loved the cage. And Emerald is no longer with us. And my point is, you know, we hate the rules. We hate the idea of a cage. We hate restrictions. We hate boundaries.
And yet, the paradox of the faith is that freedom comes from submission and victory from surrender. And so many of us, as we pursue the freedom, you know, as we pursue freedom, we really want freedom from integrity. We want freedom to do whatever we want to do when we want to do it, to follow our every impulse, to follow our feelings, to follow our heart as kind of the message of the world today.
And I would just say before you follow your heart, you have to inform your heart. You have to tell it where to go. You're not going to get in a car and just follow a GPS system aimlessly wherever it takes you. You're going to input an address. And we really need to grow in our ability to to condition our heart and teach our heart. What are the good and virtuous things of life to pursue? Because without that, I mean, we're not.
we're not getting better at things. It's like marriage statistics. It's not like with more dating apps and personality profiles and professional matchmakers and all of the things that we have available to us, it seems like we get worse and worse at marriage. And so it's like, hey, we've got to do something different. And that's kind of where I'm throwing a flag on the place saying, hey, guys, we've got to do something different today. Let's begin to teach our heart
what is the right way to go so that we know, you know, so that we know where to go and what to do. Cause it's, it's the question on the book on the cover is why do I do what I don't want to do, which is just plagiarized from Paul in Romans seven, you know, you're furthering his mission. He's, he's okay. I feel like he's good with it.
But I do think that so many of us, and I think the reason I picked up the book is you do feel caught in this cycle of, yes, I know this thing is going to make me happy in the moment. We're not going to pretend like sin is not a fun, great, wonderful thing in the short term. But what's hard is when it's eating away at us and we know it's getting us to
a place we don't want to go. And that requires us to find, like you said, those virtues and that discipline that will help us in the short term. I love just a simple example to stay with animals. The birds may not like this, but this is about cats. And you talk about when you have a stray cat, you think about the enemy being the stray cat.
And as long as you're feeding it, it's going to come back. We had bought a house one time and there were these stray cats everywhere. We're like, what is going on? So the lady who had lived there before us was gone a lot. And she actually had someone that she paid to come and put out the food everywhere for the cats so they would keep coming back. So we quickly realized like, okay, that person is not, we're not paying that person to come and put the cat food everywhere. So we have a ton of stray cats and they quit coming. So you talk about when we quit feeding the things, the stray cats, right?
that's really a good way to make them stop coming around. Yeah. First Peter, you got the house and now all of a sudden you're the crazy cat lady, you know? Right. I'm like, I want to divest of the cat thing. Sorry. First Peter 5 says your enemy, the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. And we always think, you read that and you think, oh, he's a lion, he's a lion. He's not a lion. He's like a lion. He's dressed up as a lion for Halloween. He's trying to
intimidate you. And, you know, he's probably, you know, a better analogy is a stray cat. And it's a story similar to yours is my neighbor. You know, they there was a cat that just kind of roamed the neighborhood and they began to put out food. And that cat became their cat. You know, that cat's like, this is my home now. You are my people like you feed me. And and the
the metaphor for feeding a cat is sin. And so with the enemy, the enemy is trying to get you to sin. He's trying to get you to not trust God. And so when you don't trust God, you are feeding him. You're saying, Hey, look here, like this is a place you can have your way with me. And I don't think we realize, and this is, this is like foundational to the faith, but it's often overlooked is when we, you
you know, pursue habitual sin, we're really handing ourselves over to the enemy to, to have his way. And so there's so many listeners right now that pray, you know, you know, protect my children, protect my family. And it's like, you can pray, protect my children, protect my family. But if you're continuing in habitual sin, all while you're praying that you're really opening a door saying, and, and, and the enemy, uh,
demonic forces, which I know is weird to say out loud. You guys have your way with us. Here's my home. Make your home here. Like you can, you can live here. And, and that sounds so extreme to some people that are listening to that. I mean, some people are like, yeah, of course. And then there's others that are hearing that are like, whoa, you went a little too far there. I'm like, no, this is baseline foundational kind of Christianity 101 kind of stuff. I mean, the, the, the scripture is really clear on these ideas.
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We're talking to Pastor JP Pakluta, who is the author of the book that got my attention, "Why Do I Do What I Don't Want to Do?" talking about replacing our deadly vices with virtues in our lives. But he's also, among many other things, got a bestselling book, "Welcome to Adulting." And you have a real focus on reaching the next generation and young people.
You're cool. I'm not. But I love that you are because you connect with these young people and you really love on them and want to meet them where they're at with the problems they're walking through right now.
And gosh, there are so many. I mean, after coming through COVID and people's, you know, disconnecting of relationships and dating is a mess. And you speak to all of these things too in your podcast, Becoming Something. So talk to us about what you see for younger people out there, what they need, how they can be encouraged, why you...
feel so drawn to invest in them? Yeah, it's because I was raised in church. I went to church every Sunday. You know, I said I had a drug problem because I was drugged to church every Sunday. It was a little dad joke. Same. And so I just, you know, and I would daydream for an hour and I went to a parochial school, so for nine years to a Catholic school. And
And then when I went to college, it was the crazy college life. You know, they say sex, drugs and rock and roll, in my case, sex, drugs and hip hop. And I just I was like, I really didn't have anything to do with God. And then right after college, so I'm in my early 20s, I'm at a club and someone invites me to church. And I sat in the back row hungover. I smell like smoke from the night before. And I began to wrestle with, all right, who is God? Like, how can I have a relationship with him?
And I kept tripping over the historical character of Jesus in history, like this man lived and died and raised from the dead. And when I put my faith in that, everything changed for me. And my first response to really understanding the gospel was anger because I was like, how did I miss it for so long?
And so my heart is just because I became a Christian as a young adult, my heart is to help people in their young adult years understand like this is the purpose that you have in life. I wanted to be a millionaire before I was 30. I was pursuing the world. I lived in a penthouse condo, drove a Jaguar, had a different suit and different watch for every day of the week, you know, and I just was was living the dream in the world.
And so now I'm like, man, guys, there's, there's more to this. Like there, you, you, there's more to life than what you think. You know, the scripture says, fix your eyes on not what is seen, but on what is unseen. Like there's this whole other kingdom and, and I get it. I'm crazy. Like I talked to a guy who created everything that you see, he developed the world and, and he has a plan for my life and I'm going to be with him forever. And I'm actually a,
You know, I tell my kids all the time, you're a prince and princesses in a kingdom that you can't see. And like, that's crazy talk unless it's true. Then if it's true, it changes everything. And for me, it changed everything. And so every opportunity I get as I meet with young people and the Lord had given me early in my career, you know, a megaphone to tens of thousands of young adults, hundreds of thousands, honestly. And I would get to speak to them every single week.
And so in, in doing that, it's just like, all right, we have to make the most of this. We have to talk about, you know, what is our purpose? Why are we alive? What are we doing here? Is there a God? Can we know him? And, uh, yeah, that's, that's really become a focus. And then a secondary focus is helping parents bridge the gap. Cause I think,
there are some people scratching their head like, wait a minute, they're always on their phones. You know, they're narcissistic, they're lazy. And I'm like, okay, here's how you can relate to them. Here's how you can connect with your young adult child or your nieces or nephews. And it's so important. But I always think when I think that about a generation, I think, yeah, I
gen x and i'm sure the boomers thought that about us like these crazy people with their mtv videos and the nonsense you know every older generation always thinks everything that they've fought and worked for the next generation is going to squander but you know we try to understand each other and the next um generation coming through now i mean they have different ideas about what success is
about relationships, about religion. And you talked about deconstruction earlier, and I find that there are a lot of young people who are desperate or looking for something else bigger than what they currently know, but they're really skeptical of organized religion. They see bad actors, scandals, people who have been hurt in the name of religion. Do you find that that skepticism is pretty strong these days?
Oh, for sure. I mean, you know, any you can look at any statistic you want right now and the young young people are leaving the church in droves or that's what the headlines say. And I do think, you know, the the stories, the scandals, the you know, another pastor's fallen. I mean, that makes the headlines and it's hard for us to.
to realize that for every headline, there's tens of thousands of people that are faithful, that are just playing the background, that are setting out chairs and serving food and making sure that people are cared for. And there are really redemptive movements of the church that are doing the right thing
Um, they just, that's just not what people are talking about. You know, that, that they don't make the headlines often. That's why I love your show and everything that you're doing and everything you stand for, because we get to, we get to talk about some of that. And so with, with young people, I think you can give them hope. And here's the reality is every young person I've ever met has wanted to do something bigger than themselves. They're, they're conscious about the environment, you know, they're, they're thinking about the, um,
the Cinderella story, the underdog. They want to help the poor. They want to help those in need. And Jesus had really big asks of people. So when he met the rich young ruler, he's like, what must I do? He says, sell everything you have, give it to the poor and follow me. That's a huge, like sell everything you have, give it to the poor. That's huge. Another guy is like, hey, I
I want to follow you, but let me go bury my dad first. And he's like, let the dead bury the dead. Foxes have holes and birds have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head. Like these are huge, enormous, like he would go up to these fishermen and say, throw down your nets and follow me. Like put your occupation aside and follow me.
And then what we do in the church today is we're like, "Hey, can you please just stand by the door for an hour? I won't ask much of you. Can you just greet people in the parking lot?" And so we've really watered down the calling that you see in the scripture, not for salvation, but from it, that once we understand who God is and that we have a purpose, that we really live a life consecrated to Him, that we're pursuing holiness.
And yet we miss it. And when you miss it, like when I when I sin, I want to shine a giant spotlight on it and say, hey, guys, look at that right there. I did that. And I'm sorry. And will you please forgive me? And I want to be reconciled to anyone that I hurt and run that process.
And I think what people, young people are accustomed to is, you know, so often it's just swept under the rug and it's like, hey, how do we move on to the next thing and not make too big of a deal about it? And I'm like, man, we've got to learn everything we can from our misses. And granted, when I say misses, there's varying degrees of that. I mean, one is spilt milk. Another one has raw
is a forest fire and you can't treat those two things the same. We have to acknowledge that and really work toward, I think, being honest and transparent and doing the good that God has called us to do, to care for the widows and the orphans and to love people as we love ourselves.
And we know we're inherently selfish beings. So, I mean, I always think that that command is such a good one. Like, oh, love them like you love yourself. Because that kind of gets us right between the eyes. Like, oh, I would give myself the last piece of birthday cake or whatever the thing is. I mean, we're just inherently selfish people, which is what we're fighting. We believe that we should fight as believers.
Okay, so when this podcast is airing, we're going to be looking at the brand new year, coming into a new year. What words of advice or encouragement do you have for people who would say, you know, I want to get on a better track for my life. I want to straighten myself out, have a fresh start, figure out this God thing or the religion thing, see if that makes sense or there's, you know, purpose or a place for that in my life. Looking ahead, what would you say to them about a new year and a fresh start?
So let me kind of get there a little bit the slower route. And I would just say, I would ask your listeners...
How many of you know your great great grandfather? And so think about that for a second. So not your grandfather, not your great grandfather, but your great great grandfather. And I've asked stadiums of people this like tens of thousands of people and every now and then somebody just did an ancestry.com thing or or some school project or something where they they raise their hand and and they know something about him.
but the vast majority of people don't even know their great great grandfather's name. Okay. That's close family. And here's where I'm going. He was alive. If you could do the math roughly 50 years ago, he was alive walking there and he's close family and you don't even know his name, much less his favorite color, his occupation, his favorite thing, his hobby, all the things. Right. And so what that means, what that tells me,
is that 50 years after I'm gone, like after six guys walk me into a room in a box and they say some really kind things about me and then they go get Tex-Mex, right? Right after that. Is that the plan? Yeah. Well, that's the way it goes. You get a rock with your name on it that no one visits. I mean, that's kind of the way that it goes. And so I'm just like, okay, so 50 years after that, nobody, like my closest family doesn't even know my name.
If that's true, we've got to find something else out to live for. And so it's like there's something else to live for. So if we're going to die, then we're going to be somewhere forever. And, you know, if you're a Hindu, you believe in reincarnation. If you're atheist, you go in the ground. And if if you're a Christian, a Jesus follower, as I am, then I believe that I get to be in the presence of God forever and ever and ever and ever.
And so for starting point for your listeners, I would say you got to figure that out. What happens when I die? Because I'm going to be wherever that is a whole lot longer than I am here. Like this is a vapor. It's a second compared to eternity. And so you got to figure that out. And as you search for that, as I did, I came to a place where it's like, okay, there's a God.
And he loved me so much. He gave his son and he paid for my sins so that I don't have to pay for my sins and I can live for him. And so then it's just really small steps that you can take. Like I'm going to find a place of faith and I'm going to commit to it. And I'm going to become a member there and I'm going to serve there and I'm going to
I'm going to give a portion of my life to that, that really, hopefully it's going to impact everything I do. And I'm not there as a consumer. Like I'm not just there to get, you know, a shot in the arm, some chicken soup for the soul. I'm not just a part of an audience, but rather an army of people who are doing good in the name of Jesus Christ. They're loving people in his name. And so you gotta, you know, you, we have to figure that out. And, and I would just say, if, if anybody's listening with some mystery, like,
we can disagree on things, but the one thing that I would really push you to is, is to figure out what you lead, what you believe at a conviction level. Like, Hey, here I've, I've researched it. I've come to a place where like, this is what I believe. And I'm going to live out, uh,
worldview from from this belief and and so the things in there with the New Year's is like hey join a church you know serve contribute in that way be known there have people around you with that you're meeting with consistently those tiny little turns of a knob or pulls of a lever have enormous life change behind them I mean I've had a front row seat now for let me see how many 17 years and
17 years I've been in vocational ministry. 17 years I have seen people go through radical life change. Like they've been in a really hopeless situation and their life has changed radically just because they commit themselves to a place of faith. They get plugged into a small group. They begin to learn the truth about God and they begin to really steward their life toward that trajectory. And it changes everything.
Yeah, and the new year is such a good time to think about making those choices, taking those steps and being in community. Like you say, small groups and other things are a big part of building those relationships and finding that support and network that will walk that path with you. Pastor JP Pagluta, thank you so much for being with us. God bless you and happy new year.
Hey, thank you so much for having me on. You are so incredible at what you do. And I'm really grateful. Thanks for reading the book and supporting it. Listen ad-free with a Fox News Podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts. And Amazon Prime members can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon Music app.
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