Skip On His Richard Sherman Interview
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is the Skip Bayless Show, episode 18. This is the Un-Undisputed. This is everything I cannot share with you during a two and a half hour go for the throat debate show known as Undisputed. Today on this Skip Bayless Show...

I'm about to tell you the behind-the-scenes story, way behind the scenes, of the most controversial clash of my TV career with Richard Sherman. I will also tell you why, unfortunately, I had to quit watching HBO's Winning Time after three episodes, and I'll also tell you why my man Nelly has now talked me back into trying it again.

I'm about to answer a firing line of your questions cross-examining my psycho fitness routine that I detailed for you in last week's episode. And last but not least, today, I will discuss Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. But first up, as always, it is not to be skipped. If you will allow me...

I would like to tell you the story of the most controversial incident of my TV career. The crazy and complex story I have never told until now. If you've followed my career, heck, if you haven't followed my career, you probably know about my on-air clash with Richard Sherman, which occurred on March the 7th of 2013.

I thought about that clash the other day when I read that Richard Sherman is in quote-unquote deep talks with Amazon to be part of their new NFL coverage. So this could be the end of Richard's playing career, though the story did point out he is staying in shape just in case another opportunity arises in the National Football League. My incident with Richard occurred after his second year in the NFL.

when he had been on a national campaign to trash talk his way into being a household name in America. Richard Sherman had trash talked Tom Brady. You might remember the game October 14th of 2012 up in Seattle. Seattle pulled it out 24 to 23. And you might recall that Richard yelled at Tom Brady after the game, you mad, bro? Richard said,

had trash talked Darrell Rivas via Twitter and on all sorts of social media. He had gone after all sorts of receivers from Roddy White to poor Michael Crabtree. Now for my backstory, and I want to emphasize this is my story because this is my show, my point of view. Maybe Richard has a completely different point of view. I don't know. I would love to hear it from Richard. I'll talk about that in a moment.

But my backstory, as we go back to 2013, begins with this fact. I was then on what had become a very troubled show called First Take on ESPN2. What nobody outside of First Take knew at that point was we were on probation. We had been on probation for several months, maybe six odd months up to that point.

Two extremely controversial comments had been made on first take, neither made by me, but those two comments had so enraged John Skipper, who was then running ESPN, that we very nearly had gotten our plug pulled, as in canceled, as in defunct, as in no more. In fact, we had a show meeting in which our showrunner told us that actually John Skipper had, in a rage, decided to pull our plug completely.

until the advertising department had talked him out of it. Well, give him a little more of a chance because we were rating. So after maybe six odd months of probation, we were actually allowed over about a six week stretch to, you might say, audition for a potential afternoon slot on regular ESPN, ESPN1, if you will.

that would be every day for about six weeks at either 3:00 or 3:30. I can't remember, we might have floated between 3:00 and 3:30 on various days of the week. But that meant that we would do first take, which was then 10:00 to 12:00 Eastern. We'd break for lunch and we would try to prep just a half hour show. We would only run for a half hour on regular ESPN and try to come up with a very different show, Stephen A. Smith and I.

my partner then, a very different show than what we had done in the morning. Maybe come up with different topics or different approaches to topics. And we had been on a pretty good roll, still on probation in the afternoon. And here's the painful irony. We were one day away from successfully finishing that afternoon show run.

This incident with Richard Sherman occurred on a Thursday. Friday was to be our final day in the afternoon, our final day of two-a-days, if you will. And as a group, we were somewhere between relieved and drained. After the following day's show that Friday, we had vacation for a week. And I can't tell you how much I was looking forward to that because I was pretty much out of gas. Now for key detail number one.

Richard Sherman's representatives had actually asked us if Richard could be on the afternoon show as just an NFL analyst talking nothing but off-season football. And key detail number two, Richard Sherman's reps also asked if we could please steer clear of any of Richard's previous trash-talking controversies.

Please, nothing about Brady or about Rivas or about Roddy White or Crabtree or anybody else. Please steer clear. My producer told me that afternoon ahead of that show, quote unquote, he only wants to talk off-season football, quote unquote. And of course, I was ecstatic. I thought, great. We're one day from maybe even being completely off probation.

And if Richard wants to keep it completely clean, we would love to keep it completely clean. We'd be perfect partners for just a half hour. Remember, when you do a two-hour show, now on, obviously, FS1, Undisputed is two and a half hours. When you're just doing a half hour, it just goes like that. You feel like you barely get out of the blocks. You barely get warmed up. And it's over. So great. Richard can help carry the ball on our second-to-last show.

afternoon show, or so I thought. I did let my guard down, and yet I stress to you, we didn't request Richard. We didn't seek Richard. He sought us. So maybe I should have seen it coming. I don't know, but I let my guard down. That fateful day, my partner Stephen A. was what we call remote. He was in, I believe, in Philadelphia. So I

He wasn't in studio with me, so I couldn't see or read his face on live TV. Furthermore, Richard Sherman was not in studio that day. I believe he was in L.A. via remote in an L.A. studio. So I could not see or read Richard's face at all either as this segment unfolded.

The next unexpected development occurred when Richard was a little late getting mic'd up. Not sure whose fault it was or what happened. Something went amiss. Somebody was a little late. Somebody had an issue. I don't know. But all of a sudden, my producer says in my ear, maybe a minute out to show time. Oh, we've got to come up with something to talk about for a couple of minutes until he's completely mic'd up.

Okay, let's do, has Richard Sherman arrived as the best cornerback in football? I didn't believe he had, but I thought maybe Stephen A could kick that back and forth before he suddenly joined us live. And the show started, and we did. And of course, I concluded, no, Richard Sherman has not arrived just yet as the best cornerback in football. I made it very clear, not just yet were my words on air. Obviously, I'm not going to say that.

It was Darrell Rivas. It was still Rivas Island. I knew Darrell, loved him as a player, second best cornerback I'd ever seen to the one and only Neon Deion Sanders, primetime. But Rivas was at least in the ballpark. And I'd had some friendly clashes with Darrell about he thought he had surpassed Deion. I couldn't go there and I still can't even remotely go there. But

I said, Richard's on the verge. Maybe he's got next, but he hasn't arrived just yet. So we're kicking it back and forth for, I don't know, a minute and a half to two minutes before Richard sits down ready to rock. If you don't know what happened at that point, maybe you should just Google it, YouTube it, and watch it.

Just Google Richard Sherman versus Skip Bayless and trust me, it will pop up all over the place. Many ways, shapes, and forms. Just last night, I attempted to watch it for the first time. I've never watched it before because I participated in it and I can't tell you how painful it became to me for all the wrong reasons.

But as I tried to watch it last night, once again, the wounds are still so raw for me. It just tore me apart. I think I finished one version of it. But the point was, as you probably well know, Richard Sherman pretty much ignored Stephen A.'s first question and attacked me. He personally attacked me, unrelentingly attacked me. So much for please no controversy today.

I immediately felt ambushed, bushwhacked, set up, blindsided. I was suddenly, shockingly thrust in to a position on air, on live TV. We were not live to tape. We were live to live. I was suddenly forced to, quote unquote, fight without fighting. I had to defend myself, quote unquote, with really both hands tied behind my back.

I had to try to figure out how to hold my ground while hoping to defuse the potential nuclear bomb that sounded like Richard Sherman was about to be. I could only hear his voice and he was flat out angry. Go watch it, go listen to it, you'll see. I didn't know Richard Sherman.

It was hard to gauge where this was about to go. Was it about to go completely over the cliff? Because all I could hear in the very back of my mind was John Skipper's voice. Again, the man who ran ESPN at that point. A man I got along pretty well with, but when he lost his temper, he could lose it. I've seen it firsthand and I could hear that voice from John Skipper in the back of my mind. "That's it, you guys are done. You did it again."

We were on the edge of the cliff and Richard Sherman said to me, I'm better at life than you are. Richard then called me an ignorant, pompous, egotistical cretin. Richard Sherman then said to me, I'm going to crush you on here. All the while, I was biting through my tongue. I tried to say, Richard, let's not get personal here. Let's keep it within bounds personally.

football discussion, but it was taking all my own willpower to not fire back personally, to not fight fire with fire. Allow me to quickly digress. As I've said many times here on this show, I'm a natural born fighter. I'm just a fighter by nature. I love to battle. I love to battle on live TV with my man Shannon Sharp or any of the many people I battled with on TV before.

Some good-naturedly and some not so much. I've told you in the past, just so you know where I'm coming from, what my psyche was encountering at this moment on live TV. I grew up fighting in a pretty sketchy neighborhood in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. I was the oldest of three children. I had to overcome two alcoholic parents, broken home. Somehow, by the grace of God, managed to win life.

full scholarship to Vanderbilt University and I was out of there and I scratched and I clawed against private school kids at Vanderbilt and graduated cum laude. Well, obviously I knew Richard had gone to Stanford. God bless him for that. And yet better at life than me? How do I even argue that? And in the end, what's the point of arguing that because I don't even know where to start with that. Better at life.

better educated, more spiritual, more godly than me, more philanthropic? I don't know. Where do you go with that? I wasn't sure, but in the back of my mind, I'm fighting my own psyche and nature a thousand miles an hour trying to figure out how to respond to that. And the point was,

I'm pretty sure Richard knew nothing about me. I'm pretty sure if I had engaged personally and said, Richard, where did I go to college? He wouldn't have had any idea. Richard, what do I do? Anything about me personally, I'm pretty sure he had no idea. But he was on fire with his personal attacks. So in these very live moments, the conflict raged in the back of my psyche of fight back. No, don't.

Save the show. Fight. No, save. Save the show. I tried to fight back on just a football level by saying, but Richard, you're playing on what well could be the best defense in pro football. And literally having your back are, to me, the best tandem safeties, the most dynamic duo at safety in pro football and Cam Chancellor and Earl Thomas.

So I tried to put it in that perspective while not pushing too deep of a button, which could take us right over the cliff. So here's the punchline to this. Would you believe I actually got the highest marks I ever got from John Skipper and the bosses at ESPN for the way I kept my composure during this onslaught from Richard? And in fact, as we hit our first commercial break,

Our first take producer said in my ear, do you want to keep Richard or do you want to cut him loose? Because it would be my option if it had gotten so personal, I could say, I don't want to deal with him anymore. But no, I said, keep him. I said, I'm fine to just talk football as we had planned to do offseason NFL football.

if he's fine with it. So the producer then got in Richard's ear and he said, yeah, I'm fine to talk. And we did. We finished out the show. It was a little awkward and probably a little uncomfortable for both. But I just tried to dive right back into the show and finish it out the way I'd planned to. And I thought it turned out fairly well for that final segment. Remember, it's just a half hour. And of course, Richard, quote unquote, crushed me because I got crushed

on the internet, predictably. Richard Sherman took me to school. Richard Sherman did this, that, and the other. I expected that, and as you know, I don't have any problem with that. I can live with that. So in the end, I guess I did it the quote-unquote right way, which just felt so wrong to me, just because my pride was so wrong. And I guess I quote-unquote won, but I felt like I had lost.

And just for the record, since that day, that March the 7th, 2013 day, I have often on live TV asked Richard Sherman to please join me on live TV for round two. I've tried to get word to Richard Sherman through his people, people I know around him, that, hey, I would love to face him again. Let's do it face-to-face in studio, on live national TV.

Let's just go over what happened in round one. Let's revisit, let's reiterate, let's re-tee. Never heard back from Richard Sherman. My offer, by the way, still stands. I would love to have Richard on this show because we have an hour or so to go back and forth. He could talk as much as he wanted, but this time I would talk without both my hands tied behind my back. This time I would be ready for any and everything.

I've told you before, live TV is all about preparation and concentration. And Richard destroyed both for me because I was not prepared. And then it was very difficult to concentrate while trying to, quote unquote, save the show on probation. So first take went on to obviously become, I guess you could argue, maybe not even arguably, it's the most successful show in the history of ESPN2.

And then here I came six odd years ago to FS1 and Shannon Sharp and I continue to set ratings records on Undisputed month after month after month. So who knows? Maybe if I had fired back and the Richard Sherman interview had gone completely over the cliff,

and John Skipper had pulled the plug on first take, who knows? Maybe I wouldn't be sitting here right now. It's very possible I would not.

This episode is brought to you by Experian. Are you paying for subscriptions you don't use but can't find the time or energy to cancel them? Experian could cancel unwanted subscriptions for you, saving you an average of $270 per year and plenty of time. Download the Experian app. Results will vary. Not all subscriptions are eligible. Savings are not guaranteed. Paid membership with connected payment account required. But as you probably know, last July, I did think of Richard and

Now you think of what he said to me on television back in 2013 after Richard had been involved in an incident in Seattle that he got arrested for. You probably know some of the details and if you're interested in more I would encourage you just to Google, just look it up. Who's better at life in the end? Who knows and who cares? Yet now maybe you can understand from my point of view

why it still tears me up to try to even watch Richard Sherman versus Skip Bayless. Now you know a little more, if not a lot more, about what I was going through on March the 7th of 2013, for what it's worth. Now for an onslaught of your questions. Last week, as you might or might not know, I delved into the psycho depths of my fanatical fitness routine.

And you responded with many follow-up questions, some of which I'm about to try to answer right now. And I thank you from the bottom of my fit heart for all these questions. I welcome your cross-examination on any and all of my stories or my opinions. Please fire back. Question number one comes from Bobby from Danville, California.

When you're doing your cardio, is that the only time you're not wearing Jordans? It's a funny question. Bingo. Precisely. Bobby, I do own, I don't know, over 50 odd pair of Jordans. I would wear Jordans to bed if my wife Ernestine would allow me to. She won't. I do wear them, as you know, I wear them to work, wear them on air every day. I wear them to work out every

always lift weights in my Jordans. I wear them out to dinner. I wear them to the mall. I wear them to church. I definitely wear them to play basketball. And I even wear Jordans to play golf. I do have Jordan golf shoes. So I have, what, four pair of Jordan golf shoes. But I do not run in my Jays.

I have run, as I told you last week, a lot since 1982. And I've gone through phases of running in Nikes for a while, then New Balance for a long while, ASICs for a good while. But I would say, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, I got hooked on, drum roll please, Reebok running shoes. Don't ask me why, but Reebok. They just work for me. It's the Float Ride series.

that sort of morphs into different float rides, but I float when I ride on the float rides. They fit me like gloves. They last longer than any other running shoe I've ever tried. And the point is about the float rides, they just look fast to me and they make me feel faster when I look down at my feet and start running in them. So strange but true, I run in Reeboks and

I do ask for your forgiveness, Michael Jeffrey Jordan, sir. Another question from Joseph from New York, New York. If you did an hour of cardio on that May Day in 1998, what would your streak be at now? Okay, this is a great question that I don't have a great answer for because it's all starting to blur for me. But last week I did tell you

that I have not missed a single day of doing one hour of cardio. It's either running outside or on the bike, sorry, on the treadmill, or doing an hour on the upright stationary bike. I've done it every single day since May the 3rd of 1998. That's 24 years of never missing a day. I don't think about it until I think about it. I have even run

When I'm sick, I ran through...

getting COVID back in, I guess it was January. What was it? 10 odd days. I ran or biked every single day just because that's what I do. I do not recommend it. Please don't try this at home. That's just who I am and what I do. But on that May 3rd date, as I explained last week in 1998, I recently moved to Chicago and I didn't have a doctor yet. And I got so sick that I got scared because I had no immediate access to any sort of antibiotics, which usually do the trick for me like that.

And so I decided on a fateful Sunday to go to the United Center to cover a 98 Bulls playoff game against Charlotte, but not to run. So before that, it's very difficult for me to go back and figure out my streak because understand from 1982 when I first started running seriously to 1992, I

I ran tons and tons of road races. I ran nine marathons. I ran, I don't know, half dozen half marathons. I ran what felt like hundreds of 10K races. So before marathons, I would always take two days off. You just had to because of what you're about to do to your body. I didn't mind that. Before half marathons and 10K races, I always took one day off.

But I stopped racing on concrete in 1992 just because it was just beating the unholy hell out of my body. I just felt like I stayed injured in those days and I feel so much healthier now that I mostly run on the treadmill, sometimes on Sundays outside, but I don't race anymore, thank God. So I'm not competing against myself quite as much.

So before May 3rd, 1998, I don't know. The last day I probably took off was about six years before in the spring of 1992, which would be the day before my final 10K race of my life. I don't think I'll ever go back there again because I actually had to lose too much weight to compete in my age groups, often won my age groups and all of the above kinds of races. So in the end,

I'm not sure, but it's very possible that you could add about six more years on if that fateful May 3rd day I decided to go ahead and go outside in Chicago in the cold because it was still cold in May and risk getting pneumonia and dying. But again, all of the above, I do not recommend. Next question. This is Cameron from Pasadena, California, out here in Southern California.

Is your streak of eating only chicken and broccoli as impressive as your streak of doing an hour of cardio every day? No. That streak, chicken and broccoli streak, started in 2007 when the show I was doing in New York City called Cold Pizza on ESPN2 was moved up to the mothership in Bristol, Connecticut and rebranded, you might say, as First Take.

At that point, my wife Ernestine and I were not yet married, and she had a great job in New York City, so I decided to keep my New York City apartment. And for the next, believe it or not, 10 years, I lived during the week in the Residence Inn, which is in Southington, Connecticut, but it's only about 10 minutes from the ESPN mothership in Bristol.

So for 10 years, I kept the same room in the residence and on the third floor. I just left everything there on the weekends. And I loved it, man. I really did because I had housekeeping come in to clean every day and give me all fresh towels. And the staff just loved me and took care of me. And I loved them and tried to take care of them. And it was one big happy family. But I realized right away in 2007 that my best shot at eating was...

to call the nearby Chinese restaurant and order enough chicken and broccoli and brown rice to last for five days. So I could just put it in the refrigerator, microwave on schedule. And I love that because I love the way Chinese restaurants do that white meat chicken. I just love it. Still eat it now. And

On Friday, I often went back to New York City to see Ernstine or sometimes she reverse commuted and would come up and spend the weekend with me at the residence in and around nearby Bristol, Connecticut. And she came to love the residence in, which is bizarre, but true. And I got hooked on chicken and broccoli. I consider it an extremely positive addiction.

And I must tell you, I never get tired of eating chicken and broccoli. But does it match my 24-year streak? Not yet. It may in the end. Last question about this from you. This is Norman from El Cajon, California, down south of us in the San Diego neighborhood. When you do an hour of cardio, are you trying to break a certain time or a personal record? Forgive me if I'm boring you with this, but...

Only on Sundays, every Sunday, I do try to do exactly that. It's either on a treadmill, or as I said, I have a course nearby here. I'm at the Fox Studios on Pico Boulevard and in what's called Cheviot Hills across the street from here. I have an eight-mile course that I run on some Sundays. But just so you get this, I'm also psycho-competitive, as my wife Ernstine will attest, because...

Every Friday and or Saturday night, we rip through five straight Jeopardys, and I try to destroy her in Jeopardy every single time. She doesn't love it, but it's the way I'm built. I do believe I destroy Shannon Sharp every topic, every single day on Undisputed. That's just the way I'm built. So on Sunday on the treadmill, I am constantly trying to go over six total miles in one hour.

And believe it or not, I've only been able to achieve that once in my life because it's really hard. And yet I've explained to you, or I did last week, that out on my course here in Cheviot Hills outside, my goal is to see how much farther I can go in exactly one hour than my eight mile course. And my record is about a quarter of a mile more. So it's inexplicable to me how much faster I can run outside

on dirt and concrete than I can inside on a woodway treadmill belt. I don't get it. I've never understood it, but that's the truth. It takes more out of me trying to beat six miles on the treadmill than it does outside trying to run a little over eight miles in one hour. I can't explain it. I told you I was nuts and you asked and I answered. Next topic.

My man Nelly, the great Nelly, the hot in here or her Nelly, who was actually the first rapper I ever had with me on TV, debating me on live TV. That was even before Lil Wayne joined us back in the first eight days in Bristol. My man Nelly texted me the other day and asked if I have been watching Winning Time, the HBO series,

about Magic Johnson's Showtime Lakers, a series that just recently here concluded its season one. I texted back to my man Nelly that I tried three episodes and I just couldn't take it anymore because I lived through, because I experienced the real thing as a newspaper columnist. And this show was just simply not real to me.

So Nelly, instead of just firing right back in text, after a while you just wear each other out in text because it takes too long to type and it can be so quickly readily misunderstood. Nelly did the smart thing, the human thing. He just called me and I just picked right up and here we went. Nelly tried to explain to me, man, you are missing the boat. He said winning time in his circle of friends has become the hottest sports topic going.

He even went so far as to say it's actually the hottest barbershop topic in sports right now is winning time. And he said, man, you and Shannon should be talking about it just about every day on Undisputed, at least once a week. You should be talking about what just happened on the Sunday night episode of winning time. And even Nelly said, look, it started off a little slow for me, but then all of a sudden it just took off. He said, you've got to try it again. I said, OK, OK.

I'll try it again. But he said, this time you got to go at it differently because you just got to accept it, said Nelly, as just pure entertainment. Just give it up what you knew, what you lived through. Just give it up and accept the fact that it might have little to no connection with what really happened. Well, I got to tell you, that ain't easy for me because first of all, again, I grew up in this business as a journalist, right?

And then number two, understand I'm a huge Adam McKay fan and have been for many, many years. Adam McKay is the executive producer of Winning Time. He's genius. He's Anchorman. He's Talladega Nights. He's the Big Short. He's Don't Look Up. He's on and on and on. And so I eagerly dived into Winning Time thinking, this is an Adam McKay special. And I was immediately stunned to find out

that an Adam McKay project was getting it so outrageously wrong, potentially so libelously wrong. Again, my background's journalism, and my first reaction was, you can't just make things up about people who are still alive. You can't portray them as almost fictional characters and get away with it, especially when they're still alive. You can't just suddenly...

For the first time in my career, you can't just suddenly slap me in the face by saying, hey, this is going to break every rule. There are no more rules. Well, yeah, there are. Plus, they're just human decency rules. I thought even if you think you're you can skate on the lawsuits, but.

Look, I love The Last Dance. Who didn't love The Last Dance? It was a documentary, obviously, on ESPN about the 1998 Chicago Bulls that I, in Chicago, covered. The facts were the facts. I know the facts because I live the facts. You can't finesse the facts. You can't really fictionalize the facts because Michael Jordan allowed rare, unseen video of him behind the scenes to be shown for...

for the world to see. And it's called a documentary for that reason. You can say that maybe Michael is sort of the executive producer of that documentary could maybe slant the facts to make him seem even more iconic than he was. But come on, six and oh in the finals with six MVPs. And actually, I applauded Michael because he knew that a lot of people were not going to like that Michael behind the scenes.

And he allowed that to be revealed. And he said before it ever aired, a lot of people aren't going to like me as much anymore. And I'm sure they didn't because he bullied and verbally abused many of his teammates to motivate them. That's just the way he operated. That's who he was. I saw it up close. I saw it personally. So be it. That was the real Michael Jeffrey Jordan. The Jordan I got to know. I was there. I'm telling you, that's...

right. And that was real. So I also was around a lot for the Showtime Lakers. I got to know Magic when he was a rookie and I clicked with him and I just got a sense of the real Magic. I still know him to this day and I love him. And I was fortunate enough to get to know Pat Riley when he was still a pretty young coach. I had several sit down interviews with him and I just feel like I got a feel for him. Maybe not a behind the scenes feel, but a pretty good feel for him.

And I was around Dr. Jerry Boss in group interview situations, and I knew a lot of people who knew him, and so I had a pretty good feel. And then this brings me to the great Jerry West. I was in many group interviews with him. I never sat down one-on-one with him, but the GM in the league that I was closest to, my dear friend Rick Sund, who ran the Mavericks, then he ran the Pistons, then the Supersonics in Seattle,

He was a protege and a confidant of Jerry West. And I heard all the inside stories from Rick about Jerry. And I got to tell you, I was appalled, appalled by the way that Jerry West was portrayed in the first episode that I watched. I was knocked out of my chair by it and I was offended by it.

And I was pretty much alienated by the way Jason Clarke, who's a fine actor in and of himself, but how he portrayed Jerry West as this raving maniac. I tweeted that after episode one. I told my producer here, Jonathan, and my director, Rick, that they're just getting this wrong. Well, Jonathan and Rick, much younger than I am, mid-30s, I guess you could call them millennials, and they were loving and they continue to love more and more.

this series winning time. Well, they didn't live through it the way, the way I lived in it. So they find it wildly entertaining and I'm, I'm great with that. But with this portrayal of Jerry West, how dare you Adam McKay do this to such a class act, such as Jerry West? I mean, he's still the logo. We can argue, would I like Kobe? Yes, I would like Kobe to be the logo. There was many years I thought Michael should have been the logo.

But Jerry West to this day is still the logo and you did that to him? So Jerry West didn't sue HBO because he didn't want to make it look like a money grab because he does not need HBO's money. But Jerry West did demand an apology and he did demand a retraction and he did say he'll take this to the Supreme Court if he has to and he should.

And one ex-Laker great after another has come forward, spoken up, spoken out in defense of Jerry West. Good for them. Overnight, Duncan's Pumpkin Spice Coffee has sent folks into a cozy craze. I'm Lauren LaTulip reporting live from home in my hand-knit turtleneck that my nana made me. Mmm, cinnamony. The home with Duncan is where you want to be. I told Jonathan here...

At our show, I told Rick here this was coming and I was right about that because Jerry West will not sit still for that. So after all that, how could I take the rest of winning time seriously? Look, I have always loved John C. Reilly, Talladega Knights, Step Brothers, Holmes and Watson, and Stan and Ollie. Gifted actor. Got it. But he's just too goofy for me.

to bring Dr. Jerry Buss back to life. I'm sorry, it just doesn't work for me because I keep seeing John C. Reilly and it just, it offends my eyes. Miscast. And then this device that they use, this technique of breaking the fourth wall where

John C. Reilly as Jerry Buss will talk to you. He'll turn to the audience and say, how about that? Well, it's just absurd to me. And now you've completely lost me because I can't even stay in your world that you're breaking the fourth wall into my world and further offending me. And then Adrian Brody as Pat Reilly. It's just not right. Trust me, it's not right. I know Pat Reilly. You want to talk about a tough you-know-what?

Such a commanding, intimidating presence. Takes nothing off nobody. And forgive me for this, if you love Adrian Brody, he's just too soft to nail Pat Riley. I know Pat Riley. He's still alive and well in Miami. I picked his team to win it all this year, the Miami Heat. Which brings me finally to Quincy Isaiah as Magic Johnson. I'm sure he is a fine, young, upcoming actor.

He's doing a great job as Magic from what I've seen. But for me, I know Magic. He's just not Magic. I'm sorry. I know him. He's still alive. Magic Johnson. Why do you think Magic just suddenly dropped a documentary about his life up against Winning Time? Well, I think you know it's no coincidence. He wants the truth out there.

And it didn't surprise me a bit. And I applaud Magic for that move. I just know too much about the real Showtime. And for me, that was wildly entertaining, just as so many people think this HBO series is. So why do I need to water down or blur or taint those fond memories, those priceless memories that I have of my days in and around the real Showtime? I even...

Back in the day, mid-'80s, one night at the Fabulous Forum after a playoff game, I bought a Laker t-shirt. I was so into it. I was living in Dallas at that point. The Mavericks and Lakers were arch rivals. 88, they were in the conference finals, went to Game 7, last two minutes at the Fabulous Forum. Magic switched off and took Roy Tarpley, who was 7 feet tall, was just unguardable at that point, and just took him right out of the game. And the Lakers survived and went on to the finals.

I bought a t-shirt. I was there, I bought the t-shirt and I would wear it when I play basketball in Dallas because I thought Showtime was so cool. But I get it. I understand. I get the wow factor of what Adam McKay and company have created. I get the shock factor of it. Did it really happen? It doesn't really matter because in the end, as a viewer who didn't really know Showtime,

You're just wildly entertained by this series. And it's raunchy and it's funny and it's sexy with lots of sex because there was a whole lot of sex through those 80s. That's all real and I got no issue with all that. That's accurate. But in the end, the whole thing to me is still not that real. But I just...

I need to remove myself from everything that I know. I need to clear my mind. I need to open my mind. I just need to sit back and enjoy winning time the way I just did the final season of Ozark. Ernestine and I are huge Ozark fans, and we loved it down to the final scene of the final season. I need to let winning time entertain me the way I do Yellowstone or Succession or any of the series that Ernestine and I are just so into, so hooked on.

that we've binged, especially through the pandemic. So you have my word. I will try winning time one more time. I'm going to pick up with episode four with a very different mindset. I will brainwash myself. I will give it one more go just for you, Nellie Moe. Last question from you. This is from Diego from Las Vegas. Interesting. Back to sports. Back to

What is the greatest comeback in sports history? History. Okay. Greatest series comeback obviously has to be Red Sox coming from 0-3 down to humiliate their archrival Yankees four games to three back in 2004. And then they, of course, went on to sweep the St. Louis Cardinals, my St. Louis Cardinals, in the World Series. But let's talk single game comeback.

For me, it has to be, may always be, what the GOAT did in Super Bowl 51. No, Tom Brady and the New England Patriots were not down 35-3, as you might remember Buffalo once was, to Houston back in that 1992 wildcard game before Buffalo came roaring back, thanks to Frank Reich, believe it or not, at quarterback to win 41-38.

Okay, but remember, that was a wild card game, a first round game, and it was being played in Buffalo, which helped the Bills come back. This was the Super Bowl I'm talking about, played on a neutral field in Houston. And I want you to remember that Tom Brady, in the second quarter, threw a pick six to make it 21 to nothing Atlanta.

Do you know how many Super Bowl quarterbacks would just go right in the psychological tank after throwing a pick six that went 82 yards the wrong way? That happened. And as we all know, then that happened because Tom Brady is just going to keep on keeping on. Greatest poise I've ever seen at quarterback. Greatest resilience I've ever seen at quarterback. And here came Tom Brady again.

down 28-3 with about two minutes left in the third quarter. And in the fourth and overtime, the GOAT threw for 246 yards. Think about that, 246 in the fourth quarter and overtime. The GOAT forced overtime with a 91-yard drive and 10 plays. 91-10, 90 through the air in that drive.

and needed to hit Danny Amendola on a two-point conversion to force overtime with 37 seconds left in regulation. The Patriots did win the toss, and in that game-winning touchdown drive in overtime, Brady went 5 of 6 for 50 more yards. I want you to think about this. Tom Brady, in his first six Super Bowl wins, all in New England,

won them with six game-winning drives in the fourth quarter or overtime. Think about that. That is off-the-charts clutch. That is beyond Jordan clutch because Michael just didn't have that many opportunities. So your first six times...

You win six down-to-the-wire Super Bowls with game-winning drives in the fourth quarter or overtime. And I remind you, in the first Eli Super Bowl, Brady should have won yet a seventh Super Bowl at that point. So there'd be eight total, obviously, with the one in Tampa. But let's say an eighth Super Bowl.

with a game-winning drive that should have stood because with two minutes left, he hit Randy Moss to put New England up after about, I think it was a 65-yard drive, put them up 14-10. And with two minutes to go, Bill Belichick's defense allowed Eli Manning to go 75 yards away

In 12 plays, 75 yards in 12 plays to score not a field goal because they needed a touchdown. It's 14 to 10. A touchdown on Belichick's defense beat Tom Brady and canceled out what should have been his game-winning drive, his eighth Super Bowl, 17 to 14 Giants. Just impossibly clutch.

So the greatest comeback to me is on the Super Bowl stage after you throw a pick six and you fall down 28 to three late in the third quarter. 246 passing in the fourth in overtime. That for me as an individual achievement in a great single game comeback has to rank as the greatest ever. And now I am so proud to say.

that Tom Brady eventually will be my teammate here at Fox when he retires. What an honor for me, as big a fan of Brady as you'll ever find, but what an honor for me when that happens to say Tom Brady's my teammate. Understand, when I walk the halls here now at Fox, there's a whole new electricity in the air. There's a whole new buzz.

a whole new sort of anticipation because we know that at some point Tom Brady is coming to Fox. And who knows, maybe at some point after he retires, he'll join me and Shannon Sharpe at the debate desk on Undisputed, sit right to my left on Undisputed. What a day that would be. And yet I'm afraid that would have to be a day that my partner Shannon Sharpe

long a Brady hater, would have to call in sick. That is it for episode 18. I want to thank you for listening and or watching. Thanks very much to Jonathan Berger and his All Pro team for making this show go. Thanks very much to Tyler Corn for producing and overseeing. Remember, Undisputed, every weekday, 9.30 to noon Eastern, the Skip Bayless Show, every week.