Katie Couric: Knows A Thing Or Two
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You know, I used to say I got in the business when harass was two words instead of one. And I do think it's changed a lot for the better. Somebody going to cue me or do I cue myself? Cue yourself. Okay. Hey, everybody. It's another episode of Let's Talk Off Camera. So let's get talking today. We have the one and only Katie Couric here. Woo-hoo! Woo-hoo!

Before we get to Katie, I want to say hi to Albert and Jan. Hi. Albert, Jan. Very excited about today. I know. And I want to get to her right away, but we have to discuss Succession because I haven't seen you since the last episode. Jan, are you caught up?

I'm one behind right now. I'm one behind. I know. I know. It was a long week. Yes, it was a long week. We had a very long week. Yeah. It's unbelievable. I'm so sad this thing is ending. Me too. I'm in denial. And we were shooting a game show. Oh, yes. And we were working in-

the production offices of where they shot Succession. So we felt Succession adjacent. And we all took turns standing in front of that paper Succession sign. Your mark on the floor was probably where Brian Cox was pacing around the newsroom.

Probably. I mean, that's what I channeled when I was hosting the fun family game. Did you see he just got cast in a reality show? Yes, a competition show. It's a competition show, like a 007 mission show where he's the one giving out the missions.

Oh my gosh. That's genius. I hope he is getting a shit ton of money for that. I really do. You know, this succession, and I'm curious if Katie watches Succession, but it's loosely based on the Murdoch family. Yeah. And

You know, I don't know anything about the Murdochs at all. I just know Wendy Murdoch, who is a good time Charlie, if ever there was one. But you said you went to school with a Murdoch. Which one? I went to school with James Murdoch. We went to Horace Mann together. I went to high school with him. So it was like 1988 to 91. Okay. He was... And I guess Kendall is based on him. Okay. He was super smart and...

It was fascinating. Like we never saw his parents ever. There was never a hint of his parents. But he would get dropped off and picked up in a beat up station wagon every day to school. Like you had no – he dressed like a bomb. Like he was like – it was the time where grungy clothes was in style. Right. We all dressed like bums. You just had no sense that he was anything –

you know, that his family had all this money. We knew because we would go to his house, which overlooked the Guggenheim Museum. Oh, did you go there to like get stoned and stuff? We went there for a birthday party. I mean, it was spectacular. Right. But you just, he just wasn't that guy. He was just so, he was, he was a bit of an introvert.

So it's funny that Kendall's based on him because I don't know much about what happened to him post high school, but I'm assuming a lot of that had to be post high school. And where is he in the chain, in the food chain? He's actually the younger son because Lachlan's older. Okay. He was the youngest one. He went to Harvard. He ended up dropping out to start like this music label with some of his high school friends. Oh. Yeah. Just like- Ruckus Records, I think it was called. Ruckus Records? Yeah. Oh my God.

I think that's what it was called. Kelly, you have to watch the documentary series about the Murdochs. Oh, on CNN? Yeah. So you can learn all about them. Yes, I'm obsessed with it. Succession. I watch it. I love it. Although I have to say, I'm ready for it to end. I feel like none of the characters have any redeeming qualities, really. Their grotesqueness is starting to get to me.

and their materialism and their sort of lack of any kind of moral compass. Like, I don't know, I feel like I need to take a shower sometimes after I watch the show. Having said that, I think it's brilliant. I love Frank Rich. He's the executive producer. Of course, you know Frank, I'm sure, Kelly. And hi, Albert. I've never met you, Albert, but I just want to say hi. Hi.

Okay. But anyway. That was Katie Couric. That was Katie Couric, everybody. She's our guest today. You know, I've got a hell of an intro for you. You do? Okay. Don't bother. Honestly, Kelly, don't bother. No, I want to do it. I want to do it. No, me too. I want to get – listen to this. She's not like me with the Soap Opera Digest Award. Okay? Okay.

- She's won a DuPont Columbia Award. I don't even know what that is, but it sounds pretty major. - I'm gonna light your fake cigarette. - A Peabody. Two Edward R. Murrow Awards. Let me...

I'm taking a drag on my fake cigarette. A Walter Cronkite Award. A Cronky, as I like to call them. Multiple Emmy Awards. She was twice named Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential People. She's won the Glamour Magazine Woman of the Year three times. Wow. She's received too many awards to count for her cancer advocacy work, which I believe is her most important work.

She was honored by both the Harvard and Columbia Schools of Public Health.

It goes on and on, but she's chomping at the bit. She's chomping at the bit. I am so embarrassed. I need to shorten my bio because it's so mortifying. This is a one-page tear sheet. I just zeroed in on the accolades because I like trophies. And I'm curious, what does a Peabody and an Edward R. Murrow Award look like? Let's see. A Peabody is a coin.

That has George Foster Peabody's name on it. I got that for my work on colon cancer awareness when I was at the Today Show, and that was incredibly meaningful. The DuPont was for my Sarah Palin interview, and that's kind of a baton. That's sort of a circular silver thing that I have somewhere. It was special because the researcher, producer, Brian Goldsmith, who really helped me with my Sarah Palin preparation work and the interview itself, we

We worked for several days in the library in my apartment. It was painted red. This is my old apartment. We called it the red room of pain. And we were working our asses off. And then I got a DuPont. And so I got one for Brian, too. And I think I gave it to him as a wedding present, which was really nice. I think the ones that have met.

The most to me, as you can imagine, are my awards from like, I think I got a big award from the American Cancer Society quite a while ago. It was a very fancy to do. And then I also got those awards from those schools of public health. You got the awards for the American Cancer Society every year.

and the American Association of Cancer Research. Yes, yes. And we work very closely. In addition to the Harvard and Columbia. I mean, it's like you really, nobody does more to spread awareness about cancer, cancer research and cancer fundraising than you. Well, you know, I mean, that is, I think you would have done the same thing, you know, Kelly, if you lose someone very close to you, you love and

I lost my husband, as of course some of your listeners may remember, when he was just 42 in 1998, I think. Before that, I did all sorts of events, and I'm sure you do too, Kelly, because there's so many important causes, and I'd be asked to emcee this or do this or do a panel, blah, blah, blah. But after I experienced those nine months of Jay's illness and his subsequent death, and then my sister just a couple years later died,

was diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer. I mean, I found...

that I could not focus my time and energy on anything else but educating people about cancer prevention and then raising funds for cancer research because I think a person is diagnosed with cancer every single minute in this country. And, you know, it's such a vaccine disease and it's such a panoply of diseases. You know, it's not one disease. It's so many different diseases and so many different biologies. So,

The idea that I've contributed in some way, shape or form to awareness, to cancer research, with Stand Up to Cancer and with my colon cancer work, it is so gratifying for me. So those awards have been particularly special because they honored my husband and my sister more than me, really.

I'm thinking about you. You had two little girls at the time. You have this young husband then to lose your sister. And then, gosh, I saw you last summer and you sort of whispered in my ear at this event that you had just...

been diagnosed with breast cancer and you had just had surgery like that day. And I couldn't believe that you were at this event. I don't think it was that day, but it must have been maybe just a week or so afterwards. I didn't, by the way, do that to many people. I don't know, Kelly, what you do to me, but I had this overwhelming desire to tell you. I don't know why. I just, I don't know. I just said, hey, I just had a lumpectomy. And, you know, I was actually pretty uncomfortable at that

at that party. And I know it was sort of hot and I had this scar under my arm where they had removed some lymph nodes. And yeah, that was crazy. That was, that was a crazy experience. I was diagnosed on my anniversary to my husband, John, it was June 21st and the doctor called and,

and said, yeah, you know, it's cancer. But she assured me right away, you're going to be fine. We're going to remove it. And she was pretty optimistic from the get-go, I think, just from where the cancer was located, how big the tumor was, that it was manageable and treatable and, in fact, curable. And I was just so grateful that it was detected so early because I know better than anyone what happens when cancer isn't detected early. That is when it becomes unnoticeable.

Yeah.

Honestly, I was just, I was so grateful and appreciative. And I know so well, Kelly, that it, that's not the case for so many people. And I lived it. And I think about them all the time. It's interesting on two fronts, because number one, I also have to get sonogrammed every time I get a mammogram. Because I too, with my, I like to call them my 32 AA longs. As...

tiny and as insignificant as my breast size. That's painting a picture I cannot unsee. Yeah. They actually said to me, they're like, you have dense breast tissue. And I said, how is that possible? I don't even have tissue. I mean, forget dense. But apparently, size doesn't matter when it comes to the density of your breast tissue. No, it's true. And one of the exciting things for me with breast

my experience is I've been able to educate the public about this because I think women's health is often neglected. And, you know, there's a long history of that and women not being included in clinical trials, et cetera, et cetera. And there was just such little awareness of the issue of dense breasts. So I am really happy that I've been able to take my own experience, which is just, I think, my natural thing.

go-to coping mechanism because, you know, when you have the potential to arm people with information, and I know you feel the same way, Kelly, that could potentially save their lives. I mean, it's an awesome responsibility, but it's also an incredibly powerful tool

an important thing that you can be doing and talk about purpose, you know? Yeah. I'm wondering how many people have come up to you personally and said, you know, because of you, I went and I got screened and I found out that I had cancer and I was able to catch it in time and I was able to treat it in time. I'm sure too many to count. A lot of people come up to me or they'll cry or

they'll write to me on Instagram and it's, I can't even explain the feeling I get when someone says that because I,

I don't want to necessarily be the recipient of their gratitude or I don't want to be thanked. I just am so thrilled that they're healthy and they're going to be there for their families in a way that Jay couldn't, in a way that Emily couldn't, in a way that so many people have not been able to. So you've normalized the language around cancer discussions truthfully. You know, I say to people, hey, you know, it's like that children's book, Everybody Poops.

It's like, you know, it's just part of our biology. We have to take care of our entire bodies. And, you know, in the 50s, they wouldn't say breast cancer publicly. I often tell this story from The Emperor of All Maladies, which is by a doctor named Siddhartha Mukherjee.

And in the 50s, women were looking for a support group for people with breast cancer. And they put an ad in the paper. And I think the New York Times, I believe it was, said they had to say cancer of the chest cavity because they couldn't say breast cancer in the paper. Right.

So you see how stigmatized it's been and how people feel so uncomfortable talking about it. You make it palatable, Katie, whether it's your podcast or when you were on the Today Show, I felt like I could understand actually what you were talking about. Well, that's a real compliment because that's the goal, right? Yeah.

Yeah, it is. And it makes it less scary. Now, I know that Albert is chomping at the bit because he and I are both Italian. I don't know if you have any Italian. I don't, unfortunately. I wish I did. Okay, so Albert would say, oh, three cancers. Or as you know, you read my book, my mom doesn't use the word cancer. She calls it you-know-what. So if you get three you-know-whats in your family, then you have to get the bad eye off of you. Yeah.

So if you want, we can come over and give you a little bit. If you all want to do it, please. I mean, I have an evil eye bracelet that a friend of mine gave me. I should probably wear that. Wear that for now. But then Albert, he's going to send his cousin Vito. Father Vito. Father Vito will come over. He's a real priest. Well, Albert, you have an open invitation. I want to pivot for a second because you have been in –

the just ruthless business. Oh my God. Not as ruthless as it is now. It's blood sport. I want to talk about the recent firings that just happened. I mean, literally it seemed to take both Tucker Carlson and Don Lemon by surprise. In your experience,

Is it really a surprise? Are people blindsided by firings? It depends on the circumstances. I don't think you can necessarily make a generalization. I think probably Tucker was more surprised than Don. I'm just surmising this. You know, I have no insider information. I pretty much know Kelly, Albert, and Jan. Everything that you all have read, I have read. And...

I think there was probably more embarrassing things that would come out. Apparently some pretty gross communiques between Tucker Carlson and some of his coworkers. And, you know, I did do an interview with a friend of ours named John Ellis. And John used to work for Fox News. He happened to marry John and I. And so...

I interviewed him and he said, you know, the anchors had outsized influence. And I said, it sounds like the inmates were running the asylum. Nobody was really pushing back on the anchors and they had these little fiefdoms. And I guess Tucker had the biggest fiefdom of them all because he got the highest ratings and he was sort of even compared to Sean Hannity, I think, you know, becoming a bigger star. And maybe they just wanted to send a message that, you know,

There are certain things that they have to follow. And I wonder if the head of Fox News, Suzanne Scott, and other anchors who perpetuated these lies, they were just lying to their viewers. I mean, it's really gross. But I do imagine that the audience, as John said, the audience is programming Fox News, not the other way around. Correct. Right. And so they were so craven and so desperate for ratings and so desperate for

Right.

And I don't know, but I hope, you know, getting back to Succession and the real Murdoch family, you know, when Rupert Murdoch dies, and he will, even though he doesn't think so, at some point, his children, I think, will decide the fate of Fox News. I don't know exactly how it will work. But when you have Lachlan, I mean, he's like a younger version of his dad. But when you have James and Liz, and you have Prudence, they'll have an equal say in the future of Fox News. And...

Old-fashioned news where you didn't give your opinion, where you just gave the information, is that even a viable business model anymore? And has Trump changed it? You know, when you have a president who's also perpetuating those lies, how do you not call him out?

without being called biased by the other side. It's a very complicated conundrum journalists are finding themselves in these days. Let me take you back in time. Do you remember when you and I went to Donald Trump's wedding? Yes.

And do you remember that you had the greatest purse of all time? Katie had a purse that had a built-in like – it was a purse that had a hidden camera in it. Stop. And so Katie could film people coming and going. Oh, my God. And at one point, I had a better vantage point of something and you threw me the bag and you were like –

Shaquille O'Neal's walking in, get his entrance. And I'm holding it like it's a camera. And you're like, just hold it like it's a purse. Do you remember? I don't know why I thought that was a good idea. Why I did it. I just thought it was so funny. And I felt like a, you know, international woman of mystery. And so, yeah, I think it got confiscated. Ultimately, my purse cam got confiscated. I also brought it to the Oscar party. I don't know. I just thought it was so funny. Yeah.

I guess I was bored or something. And I just thought it would be so funny. It was great. It was so great. You know, I promised my audience that I would steal something from the Trump wedding and bring it on the air. Did you? Did you?

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You know, I promised my audience that I would steal something from the Trump wedding and bring it on the air. I put all of my cutlery, like my gold gilded cutlery, and I wrapped it in the napkin. And then I displayed it on the air on Monday. That is so funny. Thinking like, if, you know, Donald Trump has a problem, he'll, like, Regis will fly it back to him the next time he's at Mar-a-Lago or something. I remember that wedding being really boring. Yeah.

Yeah, it was. It was so boring. It was so boring. Nobody danced. Nobody danced. I thought the ceremony was beautiful. I mean, the church, I remember being really pretty. Yeah. And she was really pretty. Melania was breathtaking. Melania was really regal looking. But I remember feeling like, this just is not a fun wedding. No, there was no like, where's the DJ? What's happening? Where's the music? Right?

Yeah. And there were so many famous people there. It was like so interesting to me to see like the diversity of the guest list. Let's put it that way. Yeah. I'm trying to remember. Can you remember? You had your daytime division. Who was there? I remember Heidi Klum was there. Simon Cowell was there. Hillary Clinton was there. Hillary Clinton was there. Was Bill Clinton there? Bill Clinton was there.

Claudia Cohen was there because she took me over to meet Hillary Clinton. She would say, do you want to meet so-and-so? And I would say yes. And I thought she knew them. But then I realized that she was like a conduit to also meeting them. Like she was using me. Yes, as chum. Yeah. So that's how we handled that. But I remember we were talking about the insurrection and

You know, we don't really cover politics. We try to present more of a programming that's more fun and like a relief from all of the news our viewers at home had just ensued. And I think people really probably appreciate that because it's just so ubiquitous. It's true. And a bunch of like trolls came onto my social media and they were like, weren't you at Trump's wedding?

People are so, so weird. I mean, let's be honest. People are so weird. They are the weirdest. I went to, and I wrote about this in my book, Kelly, as you know, you know, I went, I was invited by Peggy Siegel, who is a well-known publicist. She said, do you want to go to have dinner at the largest single family home in Manhattan? I thought, wow, that sounds interesting. She said, George Stephanopoulos is coming and it's a dinner in honor of Prince Andrew. Wow.

Who's not going to that? The wedding of Kate and William was going to be that spring. And I'm like, of course my competitive juices start flowing. I'm like, wait, I don't want George Stephanopoulos to be schmoozing with Prince Andrew. I need to be there because I was at CBS at the time. Like, I want an interview with Prince Andrew. So I went. She's a great person.

She told me at the last minute that it was Jeffrey Epstein. I remember Googling him and seeing something about a plea bargain in Florida. And I thought that's sort of sketchy. But obviously, you know, it had not been revealed what a sick, demented person he was. And I went and I had dinner and I left.

And I still get people on Twitter and Instagram like, well, you're best friends with Jeffrey Epstein. And I'm like, shut up. Shut up. I wish I could be, I wish I could slap back the way my husband does. Cause like he just does not care. But of course I care. And I, you know, I care a little less than I used to what people think of me, but I wish I could just be like, you don't know what you're talking about. Go away. But,

I also, I try to mind my manners. I guess I've been taught to be a good girl, haven't we all? Even on social media, when people deserve to just be told, like, you're an idiot, go away and go back to your sewer, you creep. Right. It's funny.

I used to clap back and I was like quite brilliant at it. I bet you were. Not to brag. Can you be my clapper? I can. I'm a great advocate for other people. But then I read this article. They say that real people, not bots, who leave negative comments on social media, not like I didn't like this or I didn't like that, but people who say insane things

distorted, hurtful, angry things on social media have something that's known as a dark triad personality.

And it's literally people that are spewing what they detest in themselves at you. And once I was like, okay, I better stop clapping back because maybe I'm revealing too much of myself. No, it's true. And I do think people with certain psychological disorders...

thrive on negative feedback too, or even on any feedback. It actually fuels them. So I've had people in my life, yeah, that I've been told the best way is to completely ignore that negative force because, you know, it doesn't provide the gas to keep them going on whatever strategy

strange trip they're on. Right. I just want to talk quickly about, you cover this somewhat in your number one New York Times bestseller going there. Can't say it enough. It's being a woman in the entertainment industry. And I want to know

How much you've seen change and what you've seen unfortunately stay the same in the years that you've been in the game? Gosh. Well, you know, I used to say I got in the business when harass was two words instead of one. And –

I do think it's changed a lot for the better. You know, I graduated from college in 1979, so that's when I started working in television. There are many more women. They have climbed the ladder. There are more women behind the scenes in executive positions,

I do think there's power in numbers. You know, when I was on the Today Show, I remember when I was writing my book, I would look at a photo and it would be me, Jean Shallott, Willard Scott, Bryant Gumbel, and Matt Lauer. And, you know, there just weren't that many positions for women. And now I think there are many more. And I think that there's a realization that oftentimes the audience is largely female and

And that, of course, you think that something like Me Too would change everything because it was the Wild West for so many years. And I think the kinds of things that went on behind the scenes, it was just kind of accepted behavior by a lot of people in the business. I went to the Olympics to Lake Placid when I was a desk assistant for ABC News and thinking,

wow, this is, you know, a little Sodom and Gomorrah-ish or gonorrhea-ish. I mean, it was just very, and you know, just the kind of things that were going on behind the scenes for better, for worse, I think for better, actually, it's just never been the way I've rolled. I don't want to dip my pen in the proverbial company ink. I,

I like to have friendships and relationships, but you know, I just have always kept that separation between the personal and the professional. And it's really interesting because I have to get your thoughts on,

NBC Universal CEO Jeff Schell. Did you know him? You must have worked with him. I knew. No, you know, he became the CEO, I believe, of NBC Universal in 2020. I had met him. Oh, wow. I had met him. I saw him recently at, what is the well-known restaurant where all the celebrities go, Kelly in LA? Craig's. I saw him recently at Craig's. I was with some friends and he was very pleasant. And honestly,

Honestly, that was stunning to me. That's, first of all, that he didn't apologize to his family in a statement. That really made me sad. Like, after all that's happened, like, what?

I just don't get it. And, you know, I was talking to Frank Sesno and he's like, men are slow learners. But I'm like, oh, come on, give me a break. It's just, it's so self-destructive, that behavior. And even when I think of TJ, is it TJ Holmes, right? Yeah, I was going to ask you about TJ Holmes and Amy Robach. Yeah, I mean, I just don't, like, is it worth it? Or comport yourself in a way that if you want to get involved, get divorced, get divorced,

go to your superiors, like do the right thing for your career and for your personal situation. You know, I don't know TJ. I know Amy a little bit and I think she seems really nice and really talented. Yes, she's great. And you know, what is it? What do they say? The heart wants what the heart wants or whatever that expression is, but it's, it's just so strange.

You know, I mean, now I'm working with Mark, so it's conceptually I understand how these things happen. Because I met Mark at work. Right. That's how we met. We were working on a soap opera together. I remember. And you and...

your husband worked together at Katie Couric Media. But I think there is something different about a person in a position of prominence and power and a subordinate. Oh, of course. I think that's something we learned as a result of women coming forward. You know, the definition of consensual has changed. Even if they're two willing participants, if there's a power imbalance,

who's to say it's truly consensual? Who's to say there isn't some kind of pressure? Or fear, fear of retribution. Exactly. And all kinds of things. Or in some cases, you know, a desire to advance. You know, I think they're all different situations. But

But clearly someone in a position of power cannot be involved in a sexual relationship with someone whose fate depends on said person. And so that's why I was just so shocked that that.

Jeff Schell would do this. And what is it? Is it kind of the power dynamic? Are they so surrounded with yes people, they think the rules don't apply to them? You know, it is hard. It's very heady, being in an industry and being a quote unquote celebrity, whatever that means, and a public figure and whatever.

It does do weird things to your head. And you have got to kind of remind yourself that, you know, you put your pants on the same way as everyone else and, you know, all those other things. But it just amazes me that a powerful executive like that would be so dumb. Hasn't learned from these recent. Just be so stupid and reckless.

I think reckless is the word. You can see how it happens, but I think you have to be smart and disciplined and know that unless you tell your supervisor and unless you're not a direct report, that having a relationship with a colleague isn't cool. I agree with you. Jan is telling me because I've not been on social media yet today that

but she's telling me that there's a rumor that you're going to take that hour. Oh my God. That is so... It was on the radio this morning when I was driving in. Oh, come on. So this shows you, Jan, this is so funny because it's absolutely rubbish. I mean, the fact that a radio station is repeating a British tabloid that is based on absolutely nothing shows you what's happened

to media today, not to everyone, obviously. There are a lot of incredibly talented and ethical journalists out there, but it can just take on a life of its own. And it's so frustrating. And I told that story in my book that Women's Wear Daily, the gossip column said that I, this was like, gosh, 15 years ago that I had had a laparoscopic brow lift. I didn't even know what that was.

And they called me and I said to the... I don't know what that is. And I'm pro-plastic surgery. And I said it to the PR person. I said, that's completely false. It's just not true. I don't even, you know, it's just not true. And they printed it anyway. Next thing you know, it's everywhere. It was so infuriating to me because it just showed such a, maybe not malice, but a reckless disregard for the truth. And, you know, it was a dumb thing.

I think I actually, because my late husband was a lawyer at Williams and Conley in Washington, and I think I called one of his friends and I said, you know, just on principle, kind of like Gwyneth Paltrow took that guy to trial, but just on principle, can you just write a letter to this publication and tell them that this is bullshit and I demand a retraction? So they called me and they said, they still insisted that they were right. Like, I'm like, what?

You're telling me. It's so maddening. So I remember the correction being, I wanted to not take it too seriously because the whole thing was really just ridiculous. And I said, I could think of a couple of things that could use lifting and my forehead isn't one of them. But no, it's not true. Well, let me ask you this. We talked about succession. Did you watch The Morning Show? No.

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Before we sign off, do you watch The Morning Show? Does everybody ask you that? I do watch The Morning Show because obviously I'm curious and it's been interesting for me to watch. I mean, hard that first season where clearly Steve Carell played Matt. I think they had to rewrite the whole thing when that happened.

And, you know, I remember using the word disgusted to talk about Matt's behavior. And I think my overwhelming emotion is I'm just so disappointed and so sad. And, you know, on a human level, you know, it's hard to see someone as Andy Lack told me when Matt was fired, go from hero to zero. Yeah.

And that's hard to witness. I think people just relish watching people fall from grace and...

You know, there's also a certain sadness. You know, maybe you don't like Tucker Carlson. Maybe you don't like Don Lemon. And I think in Tucker's case, he's, you know, to lie to the public is beyond, I think you can't really be rehabilitated from that. But, you know, I don't think anybody should take a lot of joy in seeing people's downfall. I feel the same way you do. I don't, I do not relish in people's failings.

It is not my brand. Right. But the morning show, sorry, I kind of got off track. But the morning show, I think, has been interesting to watch. You know, I don't think I'm a character. I guess some people think I'm Jennifer Aniston. I'd like to be Jennifer. I'd like to look like Jennifer Aniston does in jeans. Did Jennifer Aniston call you?

No, no. Katie, tell me, what's it like? I think she might be a compilation, but I find it just interesting the way they deal with covering certain stories, the kind of atmosphere of the newsroom and the control room, the personalities. I find it interesting. I think...

they probably would have been well served to have a consultant who actually worked at a morning show. You know, but because I think some things they get and some things I think are quite off tonally. Yes. But, you know, it's been interesting. And I think people are fascinated. They're fascinated with pulling the curtain back and seeing that world. And, you

And so, you know, I, I do watch it and I'll, I'll continue to watch it, but I, you know, I, I get addicted to all kinds of shows. I just finished, um, the, the last of us. Oh, the last of, I can't watch it. It scares me too much. I thought that was, I can't, I, I tell you, if you watch episode three, I think that was one of the most beautiful pieces of television I've seen in a long time. It is written and acted so masterfully. I,

I really think even if you don't watch the whole series, watch that because it's worth your time. Okay. I will. And then you need to watch Barry.

Oh, I know. I love Bill Hader, and he's back together with Ali Wong. I didn't even know they were a couple. But I've never watched Barry. I've been watching Beef. I've been watching Beef, which is very weird. Beef is excellent. It's excellent. But watch Barry. They're short episodes. You can watch all. I think this is the fourth and final season. Everything is the fourth and final season. I will. I'll check out Barry. I know you have to go. You have to go because literally there's pop-ups. There's text messages. But I want to remind our listeners.

podcasters to listen to your podcast called next question next question which is such a great title for a podcast and also just while we're at it shameless plug if people could go to katiecouric.com because i've got a whole wonderful team of people that we've assembled working very hard

to do storytelling, to write pieces. We have a daily newsletter Monday through Saturday called Wake Up Call. You can sign up for that. We do a lot of news, a lot of health and wellness, pop culture, interesting stories.

And follow me on social media where I also distribute the work that we're doing. And it's been so fun. And I love being the boss of me. I love being the boss of me, Kelly. Isn't it great? It is so great. And I'm really enjoying it. I love working with John. He's so smart and so savvy. And he's so great at business, which I am not.

And it's been really a fun experience watching him and working with him, even though occasionally we do want to kill each other. How about you and Mark? Do you want to kill each other occasionally? Yeah, I mean, yes. But the great thing about our show is when we want to kill each other, we can do it right on TV. And it's like a safe space for both of us. And usually we'll let the audience in the room judge who's right and who's wrong. It's good television. That's so funny. Yeah.

And usually, I've got to tell you, 90% would you say, they'll side with me. I don't want to make it 90%, but it's a very female-heavy audience, you know. And so they get behind me really fast. Well, you guys are a great couple. Thank you. As are you. Thank you. We should have a dinner. Yeah, we would have so much fun. Let's do that.

Albert and Jan. Bring the purse with the camera in it. Oh, that's a good idea. I want to come. Bring your camera purse. Oh, I...

I don't have it anymore. Who knows where that thing went? I've seen you make a cocktail on Instagram, Katie. I want to come. Yeah. Okay. All right. Albert, you're invited. You can get all the bad juju out of my family. We'll bring Father Vito. Father Vito is coming too. Jan, you come too. You know, Jan never posts anything on social media, but then you posted-

Oh my God. Her and talked about her reading your book and what a great producer she is, which by the way, she is. I utilize her like she's my own personal producer, but she's a producer across all aspects of the live show and my podcast. It's great.

It's great when you have a person you can really trust and you know they'll always do a great job. There's nothing like it. And you see how hard she works. Yes. She is a worker. Yes. But when she posted that on her social media, we all, because we're monsters, we all reposted it and just said, sure, Jan. Awesome.

I'll post you anytime, Jan. Katie Couric, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. This was so fun. Thank you all. So fun. Thank you.

Well, what do you think about that? I mean- That was interesting. We could have done seven hours with Kate. Yeah. There's so much. I just want to know everything. Her book is fascinating. Oh, you have to read her book. Yeah. It's both of your books. I thought that they were like roadmaps for women in this business. It gives you like a lot of pitfalls and a lot of advice. And I think that both of them were great in that way. Well, thank you. But hers is a comprehensive manual in surviving-

Literally everything. I remember watching her on September 11th when we were all terrified. We were all terrified. And I went from live to all my children and all my children was still shooting. We still shot that day. It was bizarre. People were fleeing the city. Then they shut down the bridges and then people were sort of like wandering around.

And after we were done, all my children, we went up to Washington Heights to the De Los Reyes' house. And we sat there with them, with our kids. Lola was a baby. Our sons were four years old. We ordered pizza. I remember we ordered pizza. We were able to get pizza delivered. And we just watched the news coverage. And I watched Katie Couric on

on the air for 24 hours, maybe in a row, maybe longer. And I remember thinking, like, she has young kids. Knowing what it's like to be a working mom, Jan, and knowing, like, what it takes to just get out the door in the morning, you know? Yeah. And she's just endlessly impressive. Yeah. So we want to make sure that all of our listeners sign up

First of all, follow her on Instagram. Subscribe to her daily newsletter, Wake Up Call. And don't forget to check out her podcast, Next Question. And speaking of podcasts, don't forget to follow us. If you like us, give us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts. And if you don't like us, make sure you give us a five-star review because they also register that.

Just curse under your breath as you give us a five-star review. Let's Talk Off Camera is available every week on all major podcast listening platforms. Can't wait to talk off camera next week. Oh, did I tell you I met that lady and it was like marching through Central Park and she stops and she comes back and says, I'm listening to you right now. I love the podcast. It was very exciting. Yeah, it's amazing. Very, very exciting. And the guy in the audience at Generation Gap screamed out. Oh yeah, I know, exactly.

It was so funny when you find people that are listening to your podcast while you're at work and they're like, oh, I was just listening to you on the subway. Yeah. It's very exciting. All right. That's a good one, guys. That's a wrap. Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa is a co-production of Melojo Productions and PRX Productions with help from Goat Rodeo. Our theme song is Follow Me from APM Music.

From Melojo, our team is Kelly Ripa, Mark Consuelos, Albert Bianchini, Jan Chalet, Devin Schneider, Michael Halpern, Jacob Small, Roz Therrien, Seth Gronquist, and Nick Ribola. From PRX Productions, our team is Cara Schillen, Genevieve Sponsler, Megan Nadolski, Edwin Ochoa, Rebecca Seidel. Additional sound design by Terrence Bernardo.

The executive producer of PRX Productions is Jocelyn Gonzalez. This show is powered by Stitcher. From PR.

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