Finding God Behind Bars (feat. Doug Bopst)
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Welcome back to Unlocked. I am so excited for today because it's been a few weeks since we've actually had a guest on, but I have Doug Sperling.

Bopst. Yep. I can't say it. Bopst. Bopst. Okay. I got it. Doug Bopst. And it's actually really awesome how we like came in contact. I love coming in contact with people through mutual friends and people just because I don't know. I feel like everything happens for a reason. So when a friend is like, hey, I want to put you in contact with this person. Like there's some reason behind it.

- Same, yeah, and it's so much easier to have a conversation because there's already like a little vetting process that's happened because you're like, I trust this person, so now I'm automatically gonna trust the person they're connecting me with. - Exactly, which is so awesome. And I did your podcast, which came out today. - Yes. - So today, when we're filming this, which is,

February 5th. So when you're listening to this, go back and you can find my episode on Doug's podcast, February. Look at the date, February 5th. But your podcast title is... The Adversity Advantage Podcast. Yes, the Adversity Advantage Podcast. And the reason it is titled that is...

is because I used adversity to my advantage when I was in jail. Yeah. So your story is wild, which I now, like I say, my viewpoint on prison, jail, all just criminal justice has completely changed. I say, when you get slapped in the face with it, you start to educate yourself and your whole viewpoint changes, which is awesome because I think especially with your story, um,

It's kind of something that I've spoken about. I don't know if I've spoken about it before, but when I look at criminal justice and I obviously look at being a Christian and my viewpoints and you see so many people who are so harsh when it comes to criminal justice and it's like, oh, throw them in for life or put them to death. And I'm like, that's not a Christian viewpoint because when you do those things, you're sitting here saying you don't believe in redemption. Right.

And I believe that redemption is part, should be part of our criminal justice system. And I think your story kind of shows full circle like that redemption process throughout. And so what was it that, first off, how long ago were you in jail?

a little over 15 years ago for how long so my sentence was originally five years but the judge suspended everything but 90 days and part of the deal was if i completed the five years of probation and the community service and everything else that he gave me um that he would um take the felony conviction off my record at the end of the five years of probation which that's amazing the fact that a judge can even do that is awesome and i love

I think I love that judge's point of view because I have always said like there are other countries that you serve your time and your record is wiped clean because you've you've been punished for what you did. So I love the fact that they can actually do that.

Yeah. And like, I think at the end of the day, like my story is just super unique because when I went to court, I was 20. The judge just looked at me and he's like, listen, like this felony conviction is going to haunt you for the rest of your life.

And maybe he saw something in me that I didn't see in myself. But at the time, like I didn't think I was gonna live to see my 25th birthday because I was a full blown drug addict, selling drugs, the whole nine yards, 21 jobs by the time I was 21, damaged relationships, trauma, severe mental health issues. So the odds of me making it out

you know, a better person alive, you know, whatever out of, you know, the situation I was in, the odds were slim to none given my track record. Yeah. I want to say you said at one point, I don't know if it was a conversation between you and I or what, but you said like your viewpoint at that time was like, oh, okay. 90 days. Great. I probably won't like,

you really didn't know if you were gonna be alive at the end or at the end of that five years or at the end of whatever it may have been, right? - Yeah, 'cause I had gone to several of my friends' funerals up until that point in my life. And not just people that were Facebook friends or people that I was acquaintances with, like people in my friend group for substance-related deaths.

And that and then as well as the fact that I was, like I said, a full blown drug addict, I was like, there's no way I'm going to be able to change my life. There's no way I'm going to be able to stop using drugs when I'm not in jail. There's no way I'm going to be able to change my life. Like, there's no way it's going to happen. But thankfully, you know, I had this massive wake up call from my cellmate.

essentially forced me to change my life when I was in jail. And I have. So when you were in jail, you were because a lot of people that listen like now they compare a lot of things to my parents stuff in there. Like you were actually in a cell. I was in a cell. I was in a detention center. And it was different. It's like people would go there.

What they were doing shorter sentences. I forget the exact cutoff. I don't know if it was like less than a year or they were going there because they were awaiting trial. Yeah. Because you don't go to prison until you're, you know, like a state prison until you're convicted. Right. But.

i i just noticed a lot of the people were just in there just trying to do their time get out like you're not in there with a bunch of people that you think you would it's not like a bunch of super scary people like some of the people may think right just normal people who made some mistakes and just trying to do their time and i had no inclination or motivation of changing when i got in there first thing i had to do was i detox cold turkey from oxycontin for a few weeks

So, because your issue was obviously drugs. Right. So, was it just, was it anything in particular or was it just like whatever you could get your hands on? It was Oxycontin was what my main thing was. I mean, it started out with me smoking weed to like deal with my problems and numb the pain and that led to other addictions. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I am a huge proponent and I have people all the time will be like, no, that's not true. That's not true. I firmly believe that weed is a gateway drug. Yeah. I mean, I've come to realize that as well, just because of what it, because of what it does to your brain, because it gets you used to. Thank you, Dr. Amen. Like he, but he even says like sugar and alcohol are like just as bad. And I'm like, Oh, well, I don't know.

But yeah, weed, I'm like, and I'm not saying obviously, like if you are, you know, you have medical condition or you like if you're being prescribed that for pain or what, that's totally different. But if you're just like a teenager thinking, oh, it's cool for me to go out here and smoke weed, you build a tolerance to it.

And it's like, all right, well then it takes you more to get high and more and more. And then you're just like, shoot, I want to get high quicker. And it always leads to something more in my opinion. It's like a dog chasing its own tail. Like you never, you never get the original rush you got when you first started using something. And that's what happened with me where I felt this massive weight come off my back when I first started smoking weed. And then I built up enough of a tolerance to it that that weight was

slowly started to build back up and up and up. And I had to find other things to help me escape from the reality of life. And eventually painkillers, Oxycontin was what really brought me to my knees. My habit was so bad that I was snorting hundreds of milligrams up my nose every single day. Part of my left nostril was missing.

Had to snort a couple pills every single day just to get out of bed My life was just completely out of control and but what what led you to that point? I

I just think like my inability to deal with life, like my parents got divorced when I was five. It was a pretty rough divorce. They didn't talk to each other a lot. It was at a time where the divorce rate, I don't think is as was as high as it is today. I was the only kid in my friend group whose parents were divorced. So I started to develop this what's wrong with me mentality. And then on top of that, I was bullied a lot in school. People told me that I looked like I had Down syndrome as a kid.

Kids are so mean. Yeah. And it was, and I started to internalize it because I didn't have any luck with girls in school. I wasn't good at sports, even though I love sports. So I started to think to myself, like, is there something wrong with me? Like I'm being picked on for no reason. I have no luck with girls. I'm not making the sports teams. Like it might just, is there something inherently wrong with me? And I started to develop that identity that I was just going to be destined for failure. And so in order to deal with

the toughness of life at that time, I did what I could to nom and check out. And that's what drugs did. That's what... Looking back, was there anything anyone could have done to kind of get you on the right path? Or... I don't know. Like, I think for parents listening. I get asked this a lot. And it's like... And people will ask me the same question. And I'm like, I don't know. Because...

the personal development self-help answer is to say you know don't worry about what other people are saying to you that's more of a reflection about them than it is about you but it's like does a 10 year old really want to hear that no there's an 11 year old they just want to be happy they want to be able to fit in with their friend group they want to be able to hang out with um you know girls they want to be able to like play sports and do all the things and it's like as a kid

i was so miserable that i was convinced that if i had a lamp and it gave me three wishes that i could do whatever i wanted with these wishes but the only um thing is if i if i got the wishes i could never do drugs those three things were to give me a pretty girlfriend to be like super ripped and jacked and to be successful and i got all those things in my 20s and i was still miserable

because I hadn't worked on myself internally and I was chasing these things for the wrong reasons. So I share that because it's like, I don't know, because that's what I thought I wanted. And then I got those things in my twenties.

and then I just was like, well, this isn't all it's cracked up to be because I'm still miserable, just in a different way. Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure. When it comes to my wardrobe, everyone's always asking, where did I get this or that? Who picked it out? Who dresses me? And believe it or not, I do not have an everyday stylist because let's face it, that's not realistic. And second, I have come to love Stitch Fix. Stitch

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casualty insurance company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with progressive between June of 2022 and May of 2023 potential savings will vary discounts not available in all states and situations so what was it that led you to prison

- Like what were, or jail, what, I just corrected myself 'cause I always tell people all the time, like jail and prison are two different things. But what, like what were you charged with? - So I was, I was, I was single in May of 2008. I was riding around with a few of my friends to make a drug deal. 'Cause at the time I was selling a bunch of weed to make money, to support my drug habit and to feel cool. 'Cause that was like one of the things about selling drugs was,

i got addicted to the the validation that it gave me and people needed you exactly i felt needed i felt wanted i felt this crazy sense of power when i would have all these missed calls on my phone and text messages because i knew that people needed me for something and it filled that that void inside that i didn't feel loved and i was unlovable and all those things and so sinking in my 2008 i'm riding around have a half a pound of pot in my trunk a couple thousand dollars in cash in the glove box of a scale heading to make had to make a drug deal

and i had a busted headlight that i've been meaning to fix but of course like when you're in the thick of addiction you don't care about anything else that doesn't revolve around addiction yeah so when people are like hey you should change your headlight i'm like eh that's not going to help me get high right so i just didn't even do it cops running radar i flash my high beams at the cop thinking that that would mask the fact that i have a busted headlight but really just gives him a reason to pull me over pulls me over

One thing leads to the next. I kind of stammer to get my license and registration out. I'm panicking like crazy. I already like knew in the back of my mind, my life is definitely over. And cop pulls me out of the car, searches it, finds everything. I'm in the back of his cop car in handcuffs. And it was in that moment, like everything kind of came to a head for me where I was just thinking to myself, like, how did I get here?

How did the kid who just wanted to be loved, how did the kid who just wanted to be good at sports, how did the kid who just wanted to fit in, like how did this kid get into the back of a police officer's car facing felony drug charges? And a lot of it- And back in 08, this was not, weed was a big deal. It was. Like it's not like it is now. No, it's not. And like, I look back now and it was my inability to,

to manage life that's how i got there it was like a comp like a compilation of all of my choices just stacked and stacked and stacked on top of each other and i just i thought that was it right there got taken to jail that night booked charged with the possession um possession with marijuana with the intent to distribute which was a felony and then ended up getting bailed out the next day by my dad and then went to court a few months later september of 2008

And that's when the judge, in my mind, I thought through the book at me because. I am shocked, especially back in 08, like that. I would love to have a discussion with your judge just because I believe that, was it a man? It was a guy. Okay. I believe that what he did, like, I believe, sure, you do something wrong. I believe there should be law and order. There's law and order for a reason. Sure. But you don't.

just throw the book at someone and ruin the rest of their life and you give them a second chance. And I feel like that's what he did in your case. He did. And it's like, it was, it was easy for me to feel like he wasn't. Cause at the time I was like, I'm going to jail. Like where's the deal in all of this? Cause I was so unathletic. I was 50 pounds heavier than I am now. It was timid. I was scared. I was shy. I was like, I'm gonna get beat up in jail. Like all my worst fears, like,

were like living in my mind constantly. So I was like, I'm going to be the guy that just gets messed with the whole time because I was messed with all my life as a kid. Yeah. And I was like, now I'm going to go into a place where everybody's emotions are, you know, unstable. Right. And people are upset and all these things like what's going to stop somebody from messing with me? Yeah. And so when you got there, well, first off, what was your dad's reaction when he bailed you out?

I mean, I think he was upset. My dad and I had a rocky relationship growing up. So his reaction was kind of expected. Like he was super upset. I mean, everybody was disappointed in me, of course. And it was tough because I never felt comfortable to really open up and talk about like what was really going on. If you started to peel the onion back, because I was struggling. Well, see, and that's the thing is, it's not to say for people that think like being a parent,

that parents, for some reason, we all have this viewpoint of like, parents should be superheroes. Like they don't do anything wrong. They shouldn't do anything wrong. They should do everything perfect. But then I feel like the older you get, you realize that like, it's all trial and error. That's all like, they did the best they could at the time with what they knew or the tools that they had or whatever it may be. But you, that relationship with a parent

kind of dictates the rest of your life. It does. For sure. And so it's, that's what's so difficult is because I think it's so hard as adults. We, I mean, I've had this conversation with people and it's like,

We're also afraid to say like, hey, what you did like really effed me up. Right. You know, like there's this level of guilt or shame around it that you're like, all right, I can't say this in fear of hurting them. But I think it's OK to normalize like, hey, what you did, like it really caused me to have these issues or that those issues. And.

I don't feel like we've gotten to that place yet. And that's the only way that you break these generational curses is to hit it head on and be like, yeah, that really caused me to have abandonment issues. Or I feel like I can't communicate properly or whatever it may be. And so I feel like, unfortunately, our parents play a huge role in

the trajectory of our life. Yeah. And I think you have to get to a place where you're like out of the weeds of like addiction or whatever mistake you made or whatever, whatever the chaos was to be able to have that conversation. Cause a lot of times people, especially like when they're coming out of, you know, something that they're,

they coming out of a choice that they made that they didn't necessarily want to do that. Somebody's disappointed in them. It's easy to quickly point the finger and say, it's because of you, I did this because of you. And I think once you can have some time and some distance with that event or the situation and yourself to say, okay,

now I have some self-awareness around what went wrong, what went right or whatever. And being able to have that mature conversation. That's what happened with me and my mom. Like my mom kicked me out of her house when I was 16. I haven't lived with my mom since because she busted me with a little bit of weed. A few weeks before that, I had a party while she was in the hospital. Like things were bad between my mom and I, we hardly spoke for, for years. And, and,

We worked on a relationship slowly but surely. I was working hard to change my life. She was, you know, doing her thing. And it got to a place where we were having dinner one night. And it was a conversation that really helped, you know, shape our relationship in the way it is today. And she said, is there anything that you wish I would have done differently? And I just like... And that takes a lot for a parent to say. Yeah, I just said to her, I was like, I just wish you would have asked me why.

Like why I was doing all that stuff because I was really hurting and in a lot of pain emotionally and I didn't know what to do. Like I would come home from school some days and just cry.

because I was so mortified and I didn't understand because I wasn't like a, like I'm not rationalizing bullying of any kind or people being picked on, but I could understand why somebody would get picked on if they were like constantly a jerk to other kids. Like you had no reason. Yeah, I had no reason for being picked on. I couldn't understand what was going on. Yeah, and that's what I think the why is so important. In every relationship in life, it's so easy to just kind of

skate past it and say, oh, it just is what it is, whatever it may be. But like the why is so important. Like why you feel this way, why you did what you did, why? Because if you know the why, it helps you to better understand who a person is.

And I think too, especially now with like raising two kids at 17 and 11, the why is so important. And that's why I'm such a proponent for therapy because I believe that like kids need to learn at such a young age. Like Chloe's been in therapy since she was three, four years old, I think, but she knows how to

communicate her feelings and the feelings of it's okay to not be okay. It's okay. And I think that is, we've done a great job at normalizing it, mental health, but we still have such a long way to go. And I love though, the, the why part of it though, because in your mind, like if you would have just asked me why I could have said it, we could have talked about it. And then

But there's so many layers, I think, for somebody to go through in order to get to that place. Yeah.

like when i got out of jail i had to focus on my life i had to focus on bettering my habits bettering my behaviors really like figuring out what i was going to do how i was like going to rebuild trust within myself rebuild trust with my family then there was the forgiveness aspect which i think is the hardest thing by far when somebody you feel somebody wrongs you in your childhood right and me becoming a christian really helped that because it's just completely i don't know i don't even know how to describe it but

I mentioned that I had, you know, I had attention from pretty girls in my twenties. I was ripped successful and I still wasn't happy. I trained a pastor at a non-denominational Christian church would beg me to come to church with them for like forever. And I was like, I don't belong there. Like I'm going to hell. Cause I thought that like I grew up old school Christian.

an old school religious setting where I knew if you're good, you go to heaven, if you're bad, you go to hell. And I'm like, well, I'm on the highway to hell. So what's the point of even trying to change? And then I was like, if God is real and God's about love, why is all this messed up stuff happening to me? And I was still caught up in that victim mindset.

And so when my life was kind of not, I guess, kind of falling apart emotionally in my twenties, I finally like just raised my hand and just told my client, I said, "Hey man, I think I'm ready to give this Jesus thing a try." And when I told him that, his reaction was like, I just told him he won the lottery. I was like, "Why is this guy so happy?" I was like, "I don't understand." And so ended up going to church, giving my life to Jesus. And I felt that same weight that came off my back when I started getting high.

came off again, I started to, I started crying just no, no reason. And called my mom, told her I was sorry for like the first time in my life, like authentically. And that really helped me make peace with my past because I started to realize even though I wasn't proud of the choices that I made, or I wasn't happy with the way I was treated as a kid, God was because he's now used them to completely heal me and transform me and using me as a vessel to

to help other people. And once I came to terms with that, it was like game over. So like my relationship with Jesus and God isn't like, I just go to church, put money in a basket and just call it a day. It's a relationship. It's a relationship and it's work and you have to, it's just like with your girlfriend, boyfriend, spouse, whatever it may be, like,

you have to have date nights. You have to like, you got to put in work and it's the same thing when you have a relationship with Jesus Christ. And it's one of those things where it's like religion,

can cause so much hurt and harm. And there can be so much trauma surrounding it just because, like you said, like the very traditional way is like you screw up, you're going to hell, you're great. Like that can cause so much trauma. But whenever you actually look into it, you look at what the Bible says and you look, like you said, really, it's just about loving people and loving people well. And that's the biggest thing. And

even for, I've said this, like as a child, when it's hard, like you're like, God, if you're real, like you wouldn't allow this, this and this to happen. But then the older I became and the stronger my relationship got, there was a time to where I was like, you know what? I don't, there was, it was like this push and pull kind of, because part of me was like,

I don't want this really strong relationship with God because if I have it, then that means that like all these people that have done wrong to me, like they're forgiven too. - Right. - You know, so in my mind, I was so just like not wanting that relationship because I was like, nope, if I have that, then that means that like they don't have to be held accountable and they're forgiven. 'Cause if I'm forgiven, they're, you know, so you like find all these justifications as to why you don't have that relationship.

But then I think you finally get to a point and I always reference the movie God's Not Dead and the way that the movie ends and how it's

this professor is lying on the street dying and like he the whole time he was like God's not real God's not real and then he was like Gives his life to Jesus like right before he dies and guess what he's going to heaven He's forgiven for everything and I think that for me it just goes back to redemption And if you believe in God you believe that there is redemption you believe there's times and places and he says he'll leave the 99 for the one like and

And those are the things that I'm like, all right, that's instead of justifying why I don't want that relationship or why this person should be held accountable. Like, give it all up, like, give it up to God and let that be the final say. And you finally I feel like there's peace when that's done.

I know we're in Nashville and it's a city that's moved by music. Like one of the things that changed me was that song, "I Can Only Imagine" by Mercy Me. - Yep. - And I just remember like listening to that song when I first became a Christian and just thinking about what life was gonna be like when I got

to heaven and I just saw God and I got to like just talk to him about my life and how much my perspective on that changed to where if you'd asked me before I was a Christian, I would have told him that I hated my life and that I was angry and I felt sorry for myself and that I was a piece of crap. And then now I look at it in a way where I'm just super, I just think he'll be super proud of

everything that i've been able to accomplish with obviously the help of him and and just being okay with a lot of my trials and tribulations because i know that i learn every time that something doesn't go my way exactly and that's just what i think it's it's about like and also that life's just not about me because i thought when i got out of jail and i changed my life that was all about doug bob's it was all about me but then when i became a christian i realized like

there was a guy who helped me get into fitness when I was in jail and that saved my life. And now I'm... Yeah, that's what I was going to ask. Because you went in as a drug dealer and a user and all these things. And you said what you were there 90 days. Right. And your cellmate changed the trajectory of the rest of your life in a way. He did. So what was that?

So my cellmate was sitting there at the Scrabble table playing Scrabble. And I walked in and he looked at me and he was like, he was like a more jacked version of Brad Pitt from fight club. And he was like, Oh, Hey, I'll get his number. He passed away like a year ago, but there's been a year or two years. I forget. It's been, I think it was last year. He passed away last February. Um, but anyway, he had, um, he'd said to me, he's like, Hey, when you get through your opiate detox, um,

You're going to start working out with me. I was like me. There's no way I could have been a model for Pillsbury at the time. There's no, there's no way I'm working out with this guy. And so I see him work out. He's doing all these pushups, pull-ups. I was like, man, this guy's insanely jacked. And I wanted that. Like I said, I wanted as a kid to be in shape. I wanted to be ripped. So we're having a conversation in the cell not too long after that. And he's asking me why I'm in jail. And I start blaming my parents, start blaming the girls, start blaming the sports teams that didn't pick me, all the things that,

And he's like, quit being a victim. And I was just like, well, what do you mean? He's like, you're blaming everybody for your problems. Put yourself. He's like, there's plenty of people that went through what you went through that aren't in jail. Right, Doug? And I'm like, yep. He's like, you have two choices. Be a man. Look yourself in the mirror. Take full responsibility for yourself and say you chose to get yourself here and it's up to you to get yourself out. No one's coming to save you or go be a victim and cry in the corner and blame everybody else for your problems. He's like, most people will do that.

And I felt empowered for like the first time in a very long time. And it inspired me to work out with him and give exercise a try. And when I got down to do a pushup, couldn't do a single pushup, could barely walk up and down the steps. And with his motivation and encouragement training me every single day during my sentence there, during my, uh, my sentence, I was able to do a set of 10 pushups and run a mile and

And it completely transformed my life. I finally developed self-discipline. I finally got to the point where I was able to get comfortable being uncomfortable. I was finally able to walk with a sense of confidence and swagger. I changed the way I talk to myself. I just felt like peace that I could actually battle my mind and the emotions that everything that I had trouble with before. And it completely reshaped my life forever. The day I got out of jail,

I cried. I cried the day I went in and I cried the day I didn't want to. I cried the day I went in because I didn't want to go in. I cried the day I left because I didn't want to leave. And he gave me a workout plan. And people are going to hear that and be like, what? How could that be? Well, I felt safe. You know, I felt like there was, I mean, as much as I know your experience, it's like different, but I felt like I wasn't going to hurt myself or do anything wrong.

that to worsen my situation. - Because you were very confined. - I was confined, I had structure and I had this guy in my life for the first time that I felt like, you know, outside of like my grandparents, like showed me unconditional love. And I had never had that, you know, this guy that believed in me when I didn't believe in myself, this guy that really wanted to help me, which to this day, I can't figure out like why he, out of all the people he picked me,

But he gave me a workout. And that's what I was able to connect the dots backwards. I was like, there's no way I orchestrated this on my own. God definitely did this right. It's like that footprints in the sand like poem, right? And so my cellmate gave me a workout plan the day I left that I still have framed in my place today. So I never forget where I came from. Wow. Asked him how I could repay him. And he said, just don't mess up and pay it forward. And that's that's what was the catalyst for me continuing on the fitness journey.

losing a bunch of weight, becoming a personal trainer to help other people. And then from there being inspired to share my story. That's amazing. So when you got out, what exactly, like, what was the process? Obviously you were on probation. Was it tough for you? Um,

was it tough for you to get a job when you got out? That's what people don't realize is because at this time you were a felon. Now your record is clean. But that it took five years for that to happen. It took months for me to get a job because I didn't have a college degree, which hurts you to get a job for one thing.

And I didn't, I had some experience in community college, but I never got a degree. So I just essentially just had my high school diploma and I'm a convicted felon. So I just had to take whatever job that could get, that I could get ended up getting a job at a liquor store. Cause I, you know, you have to check the box. Like, have you ever been convicted of a felon? This liquor store gave me a shot.

And it was just this crazy change because I had learned how to develop discipline when I was in jail and fitness. Why I always encourage people to work out because of all the stuff it teaches you. Yeah. I showed up early to this job. I, you know, I stayed late, worked my way up to becoming, you know, like a supervisor at the liquor store. And it was the first time in my life that I actually gave a crap about where I worked because before, I mean, I quit or got fired from every other, every other job that I had. And so I just put in the work there.

built some confidence, built some work ethic in a professional setting. And then I started to think to myself, like fitness is really having this crazy impact on my life emotionally, mentally, physically. How can I wonder if I could help other people do this? And so that led to me wanting to become a personal trainer. And when I became a trainer, I had this is where the process kind of got a little tricky because I applied for a job at this place called the Maryland Athletic Club.

And I aced the interview. They were immediately ready to hire me. But the manager was like, "Is there anything else you'd like me to know?" I'm like, "Yeah, I'm a convicted felon." But I said, and this is what I think people are always like, "Well, what's your advice?" I said, "Listen, I don't have a magic wand to fix any kind of criminal justice stuff. What I will say is you have to have this whatever it takes mentality."

And that's what I did. I just said, listen, I know I have a dark past. I said, but I'll do whatever it takes to get this job. I'll pee in a cup every day. Here's my probation information. Here's my court documents. I'll do whatever it takes. Just hire me and just give me a chance. And so after going back and forth with HR and them getting my documents and stuff, they gave me a shot and I just took it and I ran with it. And just things started to happen naturally where I found this new passion in high and

for helping other people because I had been there. I had been the guy that hated who I saw in the mirror. I had been the person that was nervous about like shopping for bigger clothes. I'd been the guy that just was insecure about being around my friends 'cause I was always the one that was, you know, a little heavier or whatever. I'd been that person. So I was able to connect with my clients on a completely different level. And then I became the most successful trainer in my first full year in the history of the company.

And I say that not to brag, but just to show what you can do. What you can do when you put your mind to it. When you put your mind to it. What did you call it? The what mentality? The whatever it takes. The whatever it takes mentality. That is so true because I feel like that's kind of the mindset I'm in right now, even with all the criminal justice stuff, like whatever it takes, because people don't realize how much it's needed, how much...

you know, how hard it is for these men and women when they get out. And when it's almost impossible, like there are States where you can't even be a hairdresser. If you're a convicted felon, that's wild. Like it's insane. All the different parameters that are around it. And I just, that is awesome. The whatever it takes mentality that is. And then I get it, but then I get into a career where,

where I had a broken relationship with my parents growing up. But I get into a career where now I'm training

successful people in the business world lawyers financial people like all these moms dads all these people that are able to help pave the way for me of like how to be successful in different areas of my life like i wanted to know like hey how can i be like i wanted to be like the guy who was able to show up at his kids games whenever he wanted to and having a happy marriage and like being successful doing all the things so i would just like ask them what they did and so i started to implement certain things like

investing money early and saving money and I would just talk to them about like how to live life or even with my legal stuff when my probation was up and I completed all the stipulations that the judge gave me I had an attorney who helped me craft a letter to the judge and ended up and this is this is crazy this is how this is like this was like the first sign I knew what God was real was the day I went to court to get the felony conviction off of my because originally what happened was

Went to court. He took the conviction off my record, gave me probation before judgment, which essentially the same was the same thing where I was no longer a convicted felon. That day I was on the front page of the health and fitness section for the newspaper for a story they had done about me training some college kids when they were home from school like that. And so the and then my and then it was kind of like one part of your life like you were set free to.

And then this. And my lawyer was like, Your Honor, look, he says this proof that he's changed his life, showing him the front page of the paper. And he's like, and the judge said something. I forget exactly what he said, but he's like, you know, I've seen some stuff. I don't know how you pulled this one off. Like thinking, you know, it was a joke. That is amazing. But it was cool. Like, you know, and I think the judge said something like, you know, this is what it's been meaningful to see. Like, this is how the judicial system in a way is supposed to work. Right. And that I learned my lesson, went in there.

And, you know, there's no, at least there's not formal rehabilitation in there. But I guess I chose to help rehab myself when I was in there to help myself. But also you had a judge who was very lenient, who was. And it's so tough, though, because the argument against the leniency is, oh, if I'm so lenient, then they're not going to know the true ramifications of their actions. So there's like, it's a...

You can have that argument or the leniency could give you your second chance of like, well, I don't want to mess up because next time it could be worse. And there's one, I want to pull it up and play it. It's a Nick Saban interview because it kind of speaks to exactly what we're saying right now. I'll say like, I think a lot of times people, it's easy to point the finger at something in your past and then use that as

As an excuse to not achieve certain things or to behave a certain way. Yeah. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I don't know about you guys, but I'm...

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Plus, all free clear liquid is Safer Choice certified by the U.S. EPA. For a clean you can feel good about, all you need is all free clear. I firmly believe that the relationship that you have with yourself is the most important relationship you will have in your entire life. I know for me, my relationships with others aren't as strong as they should be when the relationship with myself isn't where it needs to be. And that's really where

where I've had to take a step back and look at myself in the mirror and say like, hey, I need help. I'm not okay. I need to fix this or work on this. A common misconception about relationships is they have to be easy to be right. But sometimes the best ones happen when both people put in the work to make them great. Even if

it's you putting in the work for you or you putting in the work with your partner and vice versa. I believe that relationships are hard. They're tough. And the honeymoon phase,

Let's face it. I would rather do all the hard work at the beginning of a relationship than wait till after I get married and then do the hard work. Putting in the hard work is tough. And that's why therapy can be a place to work through the challenges you face in all your relationships, whether with friends, work, your significant other, any

I am a huge advocate for therapy in our household. I mean, it is an absolute must. And the reason being is because I truly believe it sets us up for success, not only with others, but with ourselves. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge.

Become your own soulmate, whether you're looking for one or not. Visit betterhelp.com slash Savannah today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Savannah. Yep, it's right here. Found it. So it and this is like, in a way, this is what I feel like your judge did. And I just believe if we gave more grace and we did, I'll just let it speak for itself.

Where do you want them to be? You want to be in the street or do you want them to be here graduating? You know, when I was over there at the Nagurski, Muhsin Muhammad, who played 15 years for the Carolina Panthers, played for me at Michigan State. Everybody in the school, every newspaper guy, everybody was killing a guy because he got in trouble and said there's no way he should be on our team. I didn't kick him off the team. I suspended him. I made him do stuff.

He graduated from Michigan State. He played 15 years in the league. He's a president of a company now. And he has seven children and his oldest daughter goes to Princeton. So who was right? I feel strong about this now, really strong. All right. About all the criticism out there of every guy that's 19 years old that makes a mistake and you all kill him. And then some people won't stand up for him. So my question to you is, where do you want him to be? That's wild. It's so true. Yeah.

It's when I heard that I was like, wow, like how many times do we just throw people away? Do we just look at their actions and throw them away and say you screwed up? You deserve to suffer. Instead of saying, you know what, like what you did was really crappy, but whatever.

Let's fix it. Let's learn from it. Let's grow from it. Let's invest in people. But instead, instead of investing in people, we just throw them away. And I feel like that's in every aspect of life, whether it's in a relationship, you can always get a new one. I mean, with social media these days, you can find one in 30 seconds. But like in relationships with jobs, with it's so easy to say you messed up, so I'm done.

And it's so saddening to me, especially in our justice system. A lot of times, 95% of the time, that's how it is. Like, you know what, I'm going to punish you. Instead of, hey, what you did is wrong. These are some consequences you're going to suffer, but let's be better. Yeah, because I think a lot of times people assume that they're just going to go in there and they're going to think about their problems and they're not going to do it again. But really, you have to

equip them with the tools to be able to learn how to become better when they get out. And it's like, I think we just live in this world of extremes now where it's like you have one side that's like, it's like lock them up. And then the other side, it's like, don't no accountability. And it's, there's so much nuance to it. Right. And that's what the, I think those are the conversations we have to have. It's like, okay,

how can we help hold people accountable, you know, have law and order, obviously, while also rehabilitating these people so that they come out of these situations or they're equipped to come out of these situations as a better version of themselves. Because that's the goal, right? The reason that I think people go behind bars is because people feel that they're a threat to society in some way or they did something to break the law.

So I think the goal should be, okay, like let's figure out a way to help them while they're, you know, spending some time behind bars or whatever the example is so that they can come out and they're like, oh, like I want to be a better version of myself now because of what I've learned when I was away. Yeah, that is so true. And I think you are a perfect example and image of what redemption and second chances and

All of these things look like and I'm like, all right, let's like look at you. This is it's possible. It's possible to come from the lowest of lows to the highest of highs. And so what would be your one piece of advice to people listening that are just like maybe comfortable in their dysfunction or, you know, they're afraid to get out of their dysfunction. They're afraid to be better. I think.

you either choose to change or life will choose change for you. And you have to ask yourself, like, what do you want in life? You know, like, where does this lead? Like, if you continue to make these choices, like, where does it, where do you end up?

And because I think at the end of the day, like making a change is hard. Like when you're in dysfunction, when you've got addiction, when you're trying to lose weight or whatever the example is where a change can be challenging, it's tough. It takes sacrifice, takes grit, takes getting super uncomfortable, takes being, takes vulnerability. It takes just continuing to show up for yourself even if you don't want to. It takes all those things.

but what also is incredibly hard and worse than that is not changing and then your life getting worse because of it or you're living with regret because you're like you know what i should have changed years ago so if somebody's like listening to this or they're watching this and they feel like they're stuck i think the first step is to just have acceptance on that like all right i accept that i'm here

And then like figure out like a small step to take to get out of that. Yeah, you have to appreciate the little wins and the little... I feel like a lot of people look at life and they're like, all right, well, I want to get here. And you're down here, but you want to get here. And you're not proud of yourself until you get here. And that makes it almost impossible to get there because you have to take the little wins along the way. Like you slowly have to...

appreciate and respect yourself for getting just a little bit further than you were yesterday. - Yeah, I mean, it's all about rebuilding confidence and rebuilding self-esteem. I think the biggest problem is people, like you said, they try to go from zero to 100. They're like, "I wanna completely change my life in 24 hours." And it's like your life doesn't get changed in 24 hours. Your life gets changed by compounding 24 hour days on top of each other and making the right choices every single day. Like that whatever it takes mentality

I always recommend that because if you want something bad enough, you'll do it.

And what I say to people, what I did, this is what I did. It's like the odds were so stacked against me to succeed that the only chance I had was to say, I'm not going to think about the failures. I'm not going to think about the noise. I'm not going to think about the negativity. I'm just going to do whatever it takes every single day and doing the things that I know I need to do exercise the way I ate, who I spent time with my thoughts, all the things. And then I'm going to do that to my fullest potential and

And then if I do that, I know it gives me a shot to get better the next day. And then I do that again, again, and again, because I knew that if I did the other thing, if I looked at my failures, if I blamed other people for my past, if I was like, I'm not going to make it, that I would have counted myself out of the game. Yeah. I would have given up, but I knew I had to just stack these small wins. And then what happens is you start to stack these small wins in these days. You look back,

And like a week's gone by, two weeks have gone by. You're like, wow, like I feel a little bit better because you're not, you know, doing the same things that you were doing. You're taking care of yourself and all these things. And I think that's just what it takes. Like everybody thinks that self-confidence is built by making some drastic decision. No. And revamping your day by day by day. It's like brick by brick. Yes. 100%.

That is awesome. That I think just hearing your story and everything, but I am like, so happy that I met you and got to see your story and hear it firsthand from you. And so where can, where can people find you?

Follow you. So the best place is just DougBopes.com is my website. On social media, at Doug Bopes on all the channels. And then podcast is the Adversity Advantage podcast. And it's everywhere you get your podcasts. Apple, Spotify, YouTube, you name it. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me on your podcast.

And everyone just follow along. I think I love hearing redemption stories and just how people got to where they're at. So go give them a follow and till next week. Thanks for having me on. Thank you.

Listen up, campers. It's time to buckle up, pitch a tent, and take a hike. This is Camp Counselor's Podcast. With Zachariah Porter. And Jonathan Carson. Consider this podcast your new favorite variety show. Where the badges mean nothing. And the drama means everything. Is this podcast even about camping? No, but it is camp. Ha ha ha.

We cover everything. I have a theory that a chicken finger is the perfect chaser for a tequila shot. No, because at the end of the day, I was a child actor who fell victim to an audition scam. I'm going to be vulnerable for a second. Have you ever had to shop in a Husky section at a department store? Then I don't want to hear it. Honestly, I can't talk about this anymore. I'm overstimulated and I'm bloated.

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All free clear liquid is Safer Choice certified by the U.S. EPA. For a clean you can feel good about, all you need is All Free Clear.