Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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A new comedy from executive producers of What We Do in the Shadows and Baskets. English teacher follows Evan, a teacher in Austin, Texas, who learns if it's really possible to be your full self at your job, while often finding himself at the intersection of the personal, professional, and political aspects of working at a high school. FX's English Teacher premieres September 2nd on FX. Stream on Hulu. A quick warning that this episode contains some strong language.
I'm Nora McNerney, and this is Terrible. Thanks for asking. So when I was 16, my first boyfriend broke up with me, which was very sad for me and also a precursor of what was to come because we dated for eight more years, and he broke up with me like 500 times. But this was the first breakup, and so it hurt a lot. It made me very, very sad, and I cried a lot, and I cried a lot to my friends. I wrote a lot of sad diary entries, but...
I remember one night, you know, my friends and I are getting ready in my room, you know, because we have to go to his football game, even though he broke up with me. What? High school Nora. No, you have better things to do. Go wash your hair or something. So my friends and I are getting ready to go to this football game, even though the guy broke up with me. And I am crying and I say to my friend Aaron, what if he's the only boy who would ever love me?
And I meant it. I truly meant in my heart, like, what if out of the billions of people on earth, I had found the only one who could ever love me. And I'd found him on orientation day of high school. And he had changed his mind and decided not to love me. Was I going to be alone forever? And this was a very big moment for me. And my friend, my sweet friend, Aaron,
Turned around from where she was applying a lot of eyeliner in the mirror and said, I don't want to hear you say that again. Because it did not compute for her at all. We're 16. I didn't say it again. Instead, I just felt it in my heart many times over the next year.
dozen years or so, just that feeling that maybe at my core, I was not actually lovable and that any affection I received might be my last opportunity for love. And that feeling led me to many mistakes that we will not discuss now.
So the last time that we mentioned relationships on this show, I got an email that hurt my feelings and made me angry. And it was from a person who was reaching out to say that being lonely and wanting to find love, wanting to find a relationship, someone to share your life with, wasn't as sad as someone being sick and dying and therefore shouldn't be on the show? No.
I mean, no, I refute that notion. OK, because like says who says a person who assumes that there is some sort of standard barometer for suffering and on the very top is death and then after that is sickness and then somewhere at the bottom is our emotional welfare. No, no.
No, no, I don't believe in that. Okay. And I'm not here to make a show that is about measuring your tragedy against every injustice in the world. I'm here to make a show that is the opposite of that. So now that we're on the same page, and I've said that clearly, this is a relationship episode. It is an episode about trying to find a relationship.
It is an episode about my friend Chelsea and her search for love. People ask me all the time, what's your type? Emotionally unavailable is always my answer. You are to me like you are color. I love that. Thank you.
You are. Every once in a while I'm like, should I be like all of these like trendy minimalist brands and only own nine pieces of clothing that are all neutrals? And then I look at my closet, which is modeled largely after our friendship. And I'm like, nah. Love it. Thank you for that. Chelsea, why are we talking today? It's not just for sweaters and the fact that we have been friends for a few years now. Mm-hmm.
I am not totally sure. I think I know. And I've been summing it up as like perpetual singledom, maybe. Being like sort of like officially in my 30s and not having like ever been in a long-term relationship. You had one long-term relationship? One in high school that was like a year long. Yeah, I guess. Okay. Yeah.
Okay, so one high school boyfriend. It's not too shabby. You do need to know that Chelsea is 32, which makes her last long-term relationship over a decade ago. And maybe you also need to know that she is a very talented graphic designer. And she looks like Linda Ronstadt from the 70s, like cute little bangs, adorable little face. She is the kind of friend who will drop everything to run to your house and watch your kids on a Monday night, even when she has 10,000 other things to do.
Maybe you already have a friend like Chelsea. Personally, I have a large handful of women, maybe a couple men in my life, who are total and complete catches. The kind of people where you're like, oh my gosh, it makes no sense that they are single. What is wrong with the world that she isn't the bachelorette? Like, why aren't men begging at her feet for the opportunity to be humiliated on national TV for her affections?
And it's not just me who feels this way about Chelsea. Across the board, the reviews are in and they are unanimous. Five stars, two thumbs up. Chelsea's the best. She is just an unconditionally ride or die best friend. Anytime I've ever gone to Chelsea with a problem, she will sit and listen and give me like the best advice without ever...
Her stealthy ability to be herself. It's like a welcome mat laid out, inviting you to do the same. If I need something, she will do whatever she can to help me out. You know, whether it's loaning me a dress for an event or if it's, you know, giving me a place to live when I leave my husband and have nowhere to go.
what else I would have done if not for her. And the fact that there's just no hesitation and no doubt. She was just really the best thing that could have happened to me during one of the worst times of my life. She's way braver than she gives herself credit for. This chick is...
Definitely brave. She taught me the importance of putting lip liner all over your lips before you put on your lipstick to keep it on your lips. And I could go on and on about her. Love you, Chelsea. Yeah, I love you, Cheech. I'm real lucky. See? Chelsea's great. We all agree. My father used to say to me...
There's love for everyone in this world. Basically, there's a lid for every pot. And I do believe that. I believe it so much. I've said it to myself like a million times during the fallow romantic years. I've said it to friends. I've said it to strangers. I'm saying it to all of you. And I say it to Chelsea. I say it to her every time she goes through another cycle of dating. I've gone on lots of dates. You know what I mean? But I haven't like...
dated lots of people like I have this very specific formula that happens in my life that's like sometimes when you have like a really great date that lasts like five hours you're like oh my god I just like totally know this person now and they like totally get me and everything is so great what like what does my name sound like with like his last name at the end you know like it's just like and then all of a sudden they fall off you know and it's just like I really want to be
You're a good friend and I want to be in your life, but I don't want to have sex with you.
I've had actually, I've dated a lot of dudes that will like go back to the person they were dating before, which is also just like really sad. Or like dudes that are like now married to like the person they were dating before me. Like I recently dated a guy who was like, I think you're great. I think you're amazing. I think you're incredible. Like I want to date you. I am physically attracted to you, but I'm depressed, you know, and I can't get past that.
And that's hard too, because like as a woman, I think especially, you know, it's like I want to help you fix that, you know, like I'll get you through that. I know what it feels like to be depressed and I can help, you know.
But ultimately, like, I'm not responsible for that, you know. But then I, like, kept hanging out with him, of course, you know, when it was convenient for him because that's how, you know, that works. And he, the last two times I hung out with him, he was on his phone the entire time, like, with his ex. Wow, cool. And I did that twice. Not just once. It didn't take just once to be like, bye.
Chelsea and I have talked about this for years, not always in front of a microphone. And it seems like all of her not-quite-relationships follow something that I am calling Chelsea's proven and patented seven-step system for not ending up in a happy long-term relationship. You could just call it like a pattern. Okay. Yeah, I would say step one is...
finding someone who I find physically attractive. It just doesn't happen often. Step two, usually it's someone I've met through a mutual friend or acquaintance or in a public setting. We talk, we exchange numbers.
I love matchmaking. I am always looking out for my friends. I'm always on the hunt for their perfect match. And about a year ago, I found someone for Chelsea and I thought, I've done it. I've solved it. And the story you're about to hear is
is the perfect example of Chelsea's pattern. So here's how it went. I took care of step one and step two in one heroic move. I took Chelsea to my coworking space where there was this really, really, really great guy, a solidly good dude who happened to be there. That part was not planned.
What was planned was that of all the open spaces, he sat right next to him. We talked and talked, and when we left, I sent him a text message to ask if he had plans. No, no, no. Not how the story goes. You handed me your phone and made me text him as you, being like, hey, so Chelsea's here, and she lives in Long Beach, but she's here, and I think you should take her out on a date. What do you think, basically? Right. I...
Okay, fine. I... Okay, so I dictated a text message to you only because I was going through McDonald's drive-thru. That's true. That is true. Okay, so this is exciting, right? Chelsea has reached step three. Step three, we, you know, maybe text flirtation, if you will, and sort of building that anticipation for a first meeting. And...
You had to go back to Long Beach and you two were exchanging like very well-crafted playlists. Yeah, it was fast. It was just like fully fast. And I supported that. I was like, that's the only way to, you know, fall in love is like, you know, like you're falling on the ice. Just go. Yep. Yep. Step three, texting and flirting, flirting and texting.
Now, step four. Chelsea goes out with the guy. Step four. First date. A great first date will last no less than like four or five hours. Talking about all kinds of things and maybe I'll cry on a first date. Why not? It feels right.
And their first date was amazing. I know this because I have Chelsea and most of my good friends on the Find Friends app. So I know their locations at all times. So I was watching. I could tell watching that blue blinking that she was having a good time. Okay. Which brings us to step five. Step five will maybe be a kiss at the end of the night. Or maybe if we're like...
Really getting along. Like, it's very rare that I would, like, you know, spend the night with someone on the first night and, like, sleep with someone on the first night. But sorry, Mom. It's rare. But it's happened. Christy, we said it's rare. It's very rare. I'm not going to say where that blue dot ended up. We will just leave this here. Sorry, Chelsea's mom. So now, step six. Step six then would be, you know, maybe another date.
Step six in this case is going to take us into serious rom-com territory, so buckle up. And then he had told me on our first date that he had to go to Cairo for work and that he goes to all of these places studying what he studies, which is like all very cool and interesting. But he, um...
goes to all these world cities and he's always by himself, you know, and how cool it would be to have a partner with him to like experience these things with. So his mom and sister were going to go. They couldn't go. And he was like, I feel crazy because we've only been on one date. But like, would you want to go to Cairo in like three weeks? And I was like, I don't know where my passport is. Actually, it's a problem, but I bet I can find it. And I said, yes, you are going. Yeah, you're going. Yeah. Everyone said yes. Even my mom.
Who I was very afraid to tell. Chelsea has her mom's approval, but most importantly, mine. I am super on board. I am like, Chelsea, yes, a strange man asked you to go to Cairo, a man you've been on one date with. Yes, you go. 100% you go. No questions asked. Think of all the stories you'll tell your grandchildren. But I told him that
The deal was, I think that he needs to try to come to L.A. in that three week period so that we can at least have like hung out twice before we go across the world together. And that's my threshold. And then he was like, absolutely. Like, that's a lot. But thank you for asking for something that you wanted was his exact phrase. And I was like, yeah, cool. I'm feeling great. Feeling great about this. And away they go. Step six of seven. The second date in Long Beach.
a whirlwind trip across the globe careening towards an inevitable conclusion of romance and adventure. Romance and adventure is also where we're headed because we're going to take a quick break.
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If you like stories that are sad and funny, then you will definitely like my book. I wrote it. It's called It's Okay to Laugh, Crying is Cool Too. It is available in paperback, audiobook, the computer kind of book. What is it? Digital? E-book? And an old-fashioned hardcover for you. The book is good, okay? Everyone except Lisa S. on Amazon thought it was. She rated a snow brush higher than my book. Let's not talk about Lisa. All right.
It is kind of like this show. Sad, funny stories from a sad, funny life. You can buy it basically anywhere except Costco. Back to the show. And now back to the show. I'm surprised more people don't ask me to just be on the radio. Okay, we're back. Chelsea is throwing herself in to this new relationship. And I thought this was a great idea. Like, yes, I felt very good about sending her halfway across the world with a guy she'd seen a few times.
Felt like she was embarking on a big adventure, like she was on the precipice of the big relationship with a great guy that we had been waiting for her to find. This was perfect. We flew to Cairo together. It was a super intense like work situation for him. And I think he was just like really nervous and overwhelmed. And it was harder than he thought it was going to be. His like greatest mentor in life was on the plane. And we ended up sharing like a
cab to the hotel with him and had dinner with him and immediately like our situation became more serious because he had this guy with him that was like someone he really looked up to and he didn't want to be like i'm just on a date with this girl a third date with this girl okay this is where the rom-com hits the road that's i am too entertained by that sentence i'm gonna i'm gonna let it sink in again this is where the rom-com hits the road like in theory
Yes, it sounds terribly romantic to fly to Cairo with a man you barely know. In reality, he is on a work trip. You barely know each other. And now you're in very close proximity to his esteemed colleagues. And because unmarried couples are frowned upon...
In Cairo, you also have to pretend to be married, like with a pretend wedding ring and everything. It was kind of like, oh, shit, like this, like, is she my girlfriend? Like, well, like, how do I introduce her? Like, who is she to me? And I think he's a very sensitive person. And that like kind of really messed with him mentally a lot.
And then, yeah, we got to this place where we finally had a night together and he was done with work. And we had the most intense debate I've ever had on a date or like even with another human in my whole life about art issues.
and what it means to like be an artist and we both were very passionately on different pages about that and it was really interesting and cool and like kind of brought us together in a really beautiful way that I will forever cherish but like it didn't like fuel any sort of like romantic fire. As a narrator, a friend, and a woman, I just want to interject to say what? Like
You fly around the world and instead of Frenching in front of pyramids, you're debating art? Like, okay, all right, I can, this is, we can save this. The next night we had an exhausting day and it was just like, we're laying in bed and I was like, I just like need to, you know, sort of bring up the fact that we like haven't been physical at all on this trip. Like we haven't kissed, we haven't nothing, you know, and he's just like, yeah, I just am not physically.
feeling it. And I think there was a lot of pressure around, like, making it, like, this fairy tale situation. Like, he was, like, really mentally, like...
fucked up about like everyone is expecting us to come home in love now you know and he was just like I just am and I'm not you know and he's like but then we had the situation last night where we like were so on different pages and like came together at the end being like wow we disagree very very much on the situation but we still like really admire each other and like like each other and he was like that's what love is you know is just like disagreeing
disagreeing with someone but like finding some sort of common respect you know and i was like yeah that's cool it's really cool so like what's missing you know and with this we reach step seven we always reach step seven um step seven um immediately after step six is like oh i'm
I really think you're an incredible human being, but I'm just not that into you. Um... Yeah.
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And it ended the way every other not quite a relationship did. A guy who wasn't ready for reasons. A friendship, but not a relationship. I think it was like him. Yeah, it was totally him because I was very much like, I think it would be cool to like
Like, this seems like a really good, cool fit, you know? And that was, like, the most unreserved I've ever seen, you know, about anybody or anything. Yeah, it was just, like, I wanted to try, and he just was not. But, again, it was, like, he wasn't in a place, you know? And I believe that. And he's got a lot of, you know, his own kind of, like, I don't want to say demons. Like, what's a good word for, like, not demons, but just, like, his own kind of...
Issues? Issues. I mean, and I'm saying that because I... My heart was breaking for Chelsea because even though I know it isn't that she's unlovable, what she sees when she looks around her is everyone but her finding love. Her recently divorced friend has been on a million dates with men who just desperately want to be in a relationship with her. And the men who have been a part of Chelsea's seven-step pattern, the ones who weren't ready for a relationship...
They ended up in relationships, just not with Chelsea. I mean, and I'm saying that because, like, I have my issues. We all have our issues. But it's hard for me to not be like, I just, like, wasn't good enough for him, you know? I, like, I always want to be the girl that, like, helps, like, is the one that a dude decides to just, like, let it all go for, you know? And I think that's the hardest part is, like, never being that girl.
And like kind of always seeing, like being aware of like who the girl ends up being, you know, like. What does your brain tell you is the difference between you and those women? I don't know. I mean, I think part of me does feel like they're the easier choice, you know, in some way.
At this point, you might be thinking, okay, well, what's wrong with her? Like, is she ugly? Does she smell bad? Is she actually gay? Is she bad in bed? Is she too needy, too aloof? Like, what exactly is wrong with her? Because something has to be wrong with her. The answer to all these, by the way, is no. Which makes the real question, why should it matter? We all know plenty of awful people, plenty of smelly people, plenty of mean people or needy people or aloof people who have found love.
And we all know plenty of lovely, kind, generous people who haven't. And for women, we are so fast to try to find fault. Nobody is like, wow, George Clooney must be so clingy and annoying. And that's why it took him so long to settle down. Like, who could stand him?
But we've turned Jennifer Aniston from America's Sweetheart into America's Sad Spinster. Women cannot be single without being a sad story. It's like finding love is a measure of your personal worth instead of a measure of your immense luck, because that is what it comes down to, don't you think? That you would find a person you can love out of all of those billions of people, and they would love you back.
and that you would both be alive at the same time, both in the same second grade play or high school geometry class, or the same party on the same night, standing alone at the same time, and you would both find each other attractive or be single at the same time. The issue is never just you. The issue is you plus the billion other factors that are all going on at the same time. So whatever you're thinking about Chelsea or any other person who is looking for love and hasn't found it,
They've already thought of your criticisms. And a hundred more besides. I don't know. I've created like a million stories in my head for why. You know? It's like, oh, I'm, you know, too, um...
I'm not pretty enough. Maybe I'm too pretty. I'm too anxious. I'm too weird. I'm too artsy. I'm too successful. I'm not successful enough. Don't have enough interests. I don't have any hobbies. I don't know their favorite book. I don't, you know, I can't relate to them on some certain level. I am not funny enough. I'm...
Audience grown. Audience grown.
But... Don't be too much of anything, little girls. Don't you dare be successful. Right. Don't you dare have your own life. But I do think that... Does that scare men? I don't know. Like, I think some. Plenty of them. And those doubts and reasons easily eclipse the other things about you, the ones that you actually like about yourself. I asked Chelsea, what do you like about yourself? And this is all she came up with. Um...
I think that I'm really loyal. I can't even say anything good about myself without wanting to cry. It's really sad. I care deeply about the things that I care about. I like that I have my own aesthetic. I have my very own view of the world that is...
special and I like it. You are loyal. You're a very good friend. Thank you. But I think I always think that fear of like letting someone in to like find out that I'm not all the things that they thought I was in some way, you know, or like, yeah, like letting someone in deep enough to then like be sort of turned away. And I feel like that's where I get to a lot, you know, in the pattern too. It's just like,
Feeling like I've let someone in enough to be like, oh, nope. No, thanks. So the wisest souls among us, I'm actually thinking of RuPaul here, have told us time and again that to find love, we have to love ourselves. And that is catchy and possibly in a lot of cases very true. But I have found love when I was nowhere near in love with myself.
I found my first love when I was so self-conscious I could barely walk down the halls of high school without wanting to just melt into the actual wall. I found my first husband when I was anything but in love with my life. It was actually...
I met Aaron, it was a few days after I had been dumped by a boy who hadn't talked to me in like a month. So like, you can't dump me, dude. We're not dating. Like, you're not my boyfriend. Which, by the way, is the casual thing I told him when he called to break up with me. You know, because I didn't want him to know that he had hurt my feelings, which he
He had super hurt my feelings. And then I was walking downtown home from work to my apartment, just openly weeping, which you can do to your heart's content in New York City. You can't do it in Minneapolis. We don't public emoting. I almost got the cops called on me. People were like, who is that woman? Okay, she's crying. Public. Get her out of here.
And I was on the phone with my best friend Dave crying, sobbing, saying, I'm too tired. I'm so tired of dating and I'm never going to find anyone. They hate everything. And then I met Aaron. I found my current husband. I love saying that because, you know, it sounds accurate, but also threatening. Like as of now, you're my husband. And this airs. Who knows, babe? Anyways, I found Matthew when I was 18.
so deeply grieving Erin that I was putting myself to bed every night with like two Tylenol PM and a glass of Skinny Girl. So saying, oh, you should love yourself first or you should just be happy is a lot of pressure to put on someone. It's a lot of should. If you do remember my producer Hans, his grandma is 96 years old. Hans visits her every week, which I'm telling you so that you know, like he's a good person.
And, you know, she says, I love this. She says, don't shit on yourself and don't let anyone shit on you. I always go to therapists and I'm like, OK, like I see this problem. I'm aware, you know, but I just like fully struggle to just like let go. And you said to me once, imagine what could go right. But I just like I think I'm like afraid to be happy. Like, I don't know what that feels like.
And I think you just kind of get used to like a little bit of numbness in life that like it's hard to let go of. Like I kind of see myself as like not not a physically attractive person, you know, or a person that's like sort of worthy of like that kind of.
affection, you know what I mean? Even though like it's something that is very and still like a very uncomfortable space for me. And so I think that that's something that someone can sense. And like, I think I need to find someone who is kind of comfortable with that, that someone I can be like super honest with.
I wanted to talk to Chelsea. I wanted to make this topic an episode because love is important to everyone. And the search for love is important to everyone. It is a quest that is the foundation of the world's greatest stories and of Taylor Swift's greatest album, Red. By the way, don't try to tell me 1989 is superior.
The search doesn't always end well for everyone. It doesn't always end for everyone. Some people are just forever alone. Some by choice and some not by choice. Like, okay, watch my new favorite show, 90 Day Fiancé. It is a doozy. You've got to watch 90 Day Fiancé, guys. You will just understand. It will give you a sense of how far people will go physically and pride-wise, physically.
to find love. We need it. When we don't have it, we will do nearly anything to get it. And that is why we say congratulations when people get engaged. Even when the person who just got engaged is a total stranger that we met at the coffee shop, congratulations, Meredith.
We say congratulations because even if finding love wasn't hard for us, because we did meet the love of our lives in second grade or in high school geometry or on Match.com, we met them. We found them. Of all the people in the world, we found someone to love who loves us back. Not the only one, 16-year-old Nora, but one. And we know that makes us lucky. Not because we're hard to love.
but because it really is like winning the lottery. Because even if my dad was right, and I think he was about this at least, even if there is love for everyone in this world, finding it is still something to celebrate, and searching for it is still worthwhile. And not having it doesn't mean that your life is worthless or miserable, but maybe just that it would be better if you had a lid for your pot, or a pot for your lid.
It makes me sound like I just go around in a very sad state all the time, which I wouldn't say is the case. But it is just a certain part of my world that is certainly a struggle.
Finding love is not, I repeat, not a measure of your personal worth, but it's also okay to want it. It is okay to want things, and I know that Chelsea wants love, and I want that for her. So turn that radar back on and find someone for her. Someone fun and smart and kind and thoughtful and loving. Someone who she could be comfortable and honest with. Someone complicated.
Um, well, I'm, I'm an addict, alcoholic, and, um, that's, it creates a lot of issues, um, for me by myself and in a relationship with Chelsea. You'll meet him next week though. This has been Terrible. Thanks for asking. I'm Nora McInerney, our senior producer, Hans Butow.
Our intern is Jacob Maldonado-Medina. Special thanks this week to Sasha Aslanian, Suzanne Pico, Jeffrey Bisoy-Matisse, and Hannah Meacock-Ross, and to Kate O'Reilly, Keely Dunn, and Kelly Gritzmacher. These people have made this episode really special. Our theme music is in my head all the time. I love it. And it was created by Joffrey Lamar Wilson, who's wonderful. TTFA is produced by American Public Media. ♪
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