Loving into the Future
49:05 Share

This episode is brought to you by The Hartford, a leading provider of employee benefits and income protection products that is dedicated to standing behind U.S. workers to help them pursue their goals and get through tough times. For more information about The Hartford, visit thehartford.com slash employee benefits. We've also got a link in our show notes. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Whether you're selling a little or a lot,

Shopify helps you do your thing, however you cha-ching. From the launch your online shop stage, all the way to the we just hit a million orders stage. No matter what stage you're in, Shopify's there to help you grow. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash special offer, all lowercase. That's shopify.com slash special offer. Um, how are you? Most people answer that question with fine or...

But obviously it's not always fine, and it's usually not even that good. This is a podcast that asks people to be honest about their pain. To just be honest about how they really feel about the hard parts of life. And guess what? It's complicated. I'm Nora McInerney, and this is Terrible. Thanks for asking. Today's guest is a woman named Kelly. And Kelly's story starts with a photo.

If you were to look at this picture, it just looks like a random picture of my parents at a birthday party. When I was in grade school, there was one of my classmates. She was also in my Girl Guide group. She threw this big party every year at a local Chinese buffet. And because we went to Girl Guides with her too, like my parents got to know her parents and they were invited to the party as well. So there's this picture of...

My parents sitting across from some of her family members. Like, my dad's got his arms crossed. My mom looks like she's scratching her nose. There's balloons in the center and it's a big long table. It's like one of those photos that when you're going through a box of photos, you think, literally, who kept this and why?

Yeah, yeah, like you can tell, you can tell that it's from the birthday party, but like other than that, you wouldn't think that it was an important picture in any way. This picture is important to Kelly, not because it's a particularly good photo, but because it holds a special link for her. A link between her past, her present, and her future. A link between her grief and her love. Because you can't have the former without the latter.

Remember this photo, because we'll come back to it later. Kelly grew up in southwestern Ontario, which is going to explain some of the little turns of phrase she might use. Kelly had a big brother and a sister, a mom, and a really, really good dad.

One of my favorite pictures of him and I is I'm like maybe a year, year and a half crawling with a suit in my out. I've got like the Mickey Mouse ears and I'm down on the carpet and my dad is over top of me crawling with me and just smiling at the camera with like the big 80s glasses and the mustache. Yeah.

I think in that picture, he had the big curly hair. I think he had curly-ish hair. He had all his hair at that point. It hadn't started to go gray. The big classic mustache, just classic mustache glasses. He

He wore like the knee high socks for an absurd amount of time. I think the only reason he got rid of his knees high socks was because my sister threw them all out and bought him new socks and was like, no, you're not allowed. You're not allowed to wear the knee high socks anymore. Get rid of them. And I have a vivid memory of just jumping in the waves with my dad and letting the waves like

bring us back and then we'd go for it a little bit and then jump when the next wave hit and it would just bring us back. He sounds just like a fun, kind, like movie dad. Yeah, he was, he was, and it was just, it was just, he was good and kind. You know, my uncle had father's day party every summer because he had a pool and

So my dad would take me on his shoulders in the pool and he would go for a walk in the pool and he would step in a hole and he would dunk us both under and I would just laugh. Kelly's dad was really goofy, but he was also really serious about loving his kids. I remember one time I came into the house and, uh,

he's like, oh, who's there? I don't know why he didn't know it was one of his kids that was probably coming home after school. And I'm just like, oh, it's just me. And he's like, never say that. Never say that because you are an important person in my life. It's not just you. You are a special person. So that's something that I've always carried with me no matter what, if I succeed or fail at something. I always think that my dad is always proud of me no matter what. I think it's just...

important for children to know that they're loved and accepted for who they are. And like, my dad really wanted to make sure that I had that because that's not something that he had all that much of growing up. And you know, it's like you get you make sure to give what you didn't receive, you know, like the things are important that are important to you as a parent, and

are generally the things that were either lacking for whatever reason or that you didn't have. He always tried to be a better parent, be open to learning new things. As I became a teenager, I spoke angry teenager. He spoke misunderstood adult. That resulted in some loud conversations.

But like, I always had that craving of being closer to my dad as a teenager. And I feel like he just didn't have those skills taught to him about communication to connect in the way that I needed. But the thing that I hold on to and the thing that I love so much about him is he was never happy with mediocre. He always strived for better.

So even if he never got to the place where he was the perfect parent, he was always striving and always trying to do better. So this is how Kelly grows up in a home that's not perfect, but with a father who was always trying. But love and grief are very connected. And grief comes early for Kelly. She's 18. She's in her final year of high school. My dad...

He wasn't feeling well. He was having chest pains. And like, consider the fact that my dad is only 56 at this point. My mom was like, okay, you're having chest pains. Let's get you into our doctor. Because her concern was that, you know, if we went to the ER, we would wait and they'd wait and wait and wait. Maybe if we went to the doctor first, you know, he could think of maybe it was something else or like, you know, we'd have the authority of, well, the doctor sent them to the ER. It must be serious. Yes.

So they went to the doctor and our doctor, family doctor said, you know, I don't think it's your heart because you're so young. Like he had a family history of heart disease, but he was only 56. So the doctor said, you know, it won't hurt to go to the ER. So they went to the emergency room. Then they took him back.

And they did an EKG and they found out that he had had a heart attack. Like my mom's a nurse, right? She's actually a nurse at this hospital that they, that they took my dad to. So she had to step out of the room for something. And the specialist cardiologist walks by and he looks at her and he's like, what are you doing here? And she's like, well, my husband's here. He had a heart attack. Well, give me his EKG. Let me see. Let me see.

He looked at his EKG and he said, oh, this is a right side heart attack. Your husband's going to be fine because the right side of your heart pumps blood to and from your lungs, right? So it's not as serious as a heart attack on the left side, which I believe pumps to your body. So my mom had that assurance and then standard procedure of any heart attack is

patient is to give them the anticoagulant. So they gave him the anticoagulant, which breaks up clots. That's what it does. And it broke up the clot that was keeping my dad's heart together. Because what had really happened was you picture your heart beating away in your chest, but it's not really like that. There's layers of tissue around it.

So that if you were to like be punched or get into a car accident, you know, your heart hits your rib cage, your heart is still fine and undamaged. Well, my dad had had a heart attack that was so severe, it had ripped a layer of

in that cushion. So that clot was keeping him from bleeding out. And when they gave him the anticoagulant, it instantaneously dissolved that clot. And my dad started to seize and bled out internally and died.

I was at home watching TV. I was supposed to start my shift at a local fast food restaurant. And when my parents left to the doctor, my mom didn't really seem too concerned. So I was just like, okay, dad's going to go to the doctor. And then she called and she said, your sister and her husband are going to come by and pick you up and take you to the hospital. So...

I called into work. I knew it was serious. I didn't know how serious. So I waited for my sister and her husband. They picked me up and we walked into the doors of the hospital. And at the time in the hospital, there was like this quiet room. So they shuffled us into the quiet room. And I remember my mom sitting on a chair and she looked at us and she just said, I'm so sorry. Your dad is dead. He died.

It was just shocking. Like, what 18-year-old expects their dad to die so suddenly? No 18-year-old does. We assume that we have decades more with our parents. That we have long enough to see them grow older, retire, maybe become grandparents. That we have years to make more memories together. To be an adult alongside them. And even if you do get all of that, and all of that time...

It's never easy to lose your parents. It just felt like there was like a definitive before and definitive after part of my life. Like I used to journal and I remember journaling about how I couldn't go back to the person I was because she had a dad that was living.

You know, like she had a dad that was living and it's just like this grief was a big thing, but it was the little things, you know, like my dad left his instant large Costco size instant coffee container on the kitchen table every day. And it bothered me so much. It's like, put it away. Doesn't belong there. Put it away. Do you know how badly I would have wished that?

I could just woke up one day and come into the kitchen and see that coffee canister on the table. I remember wishing for that. I remember wishing for this coffee canister to be on the kitchen table. And you feel different. Like no one knows how to interact with you. People walk on eggshells around you when you lose a dad that's suddenly that young. Like my friends were great, but they also didn't know how to handle it.

They were very supportive, but like my very best friend who I love to death and we're still best friends. We've been best friends since like grade school.

you know, she, she'd asked me to go out and do something. And, uh, she's like, Oh, Kelly, do you have to ask your parents before we, uh, make these plans? And then she said, Oh my gosh. She's like, I said, parents. Oh my gosh, your dad died. And she was just like, so she freaked out. And I'm just like, okay, calm down. Let's take a breath. First off, you can't remind me that my dad died. That's something I can't forget. Um,

You didn't remind me. And secondly, I understand that most people my age still have a dad. Most people your age do still have a dad. And most grownups don't even know what to say. We tend to believe that with the right words, we can fix something. But not everything can be fixed. And often the most powerful thing that you can do is show up and shut up.

Grief demands a witness. It demands a restructuring of your life and the world around you. Every person who dies is at the center of a wheel. And without them, where do all those spokes go? They just spin out sometimes. Or they can find a new center. And for Kelly, that center was her maternal grandfather, Wilfred. The best grandfather name anyone could imagine. ♪

We get support from FOREA and the only people who can listen to this advertisement. I want everyone to listen to it unless you know me in real life, because I'm going to talk about intimacy products and I am a recovering prude. But I can tell you that I reached out to FOREA after using their products and I was like, I need you to be a sponsor on my podcast because I want to talk about this, even though it's hard for me to talk about, but I don't think that's just me. I think that's

A lot of us. Phoria has a cult following for a reason because their products transform people's sex lives. It feels like magic. It feels like alchemy. I don't know how to describe it other than to say if you think that you have had decent orgasms before, even good ones, if you feel like you've had good sex, you're about to

take it to a different level. You are about to have your mind blown. You are going to be just sailing through space on another planet and you will be amazed. You will be amazed. I am a huge fan of the Awaken Arousal Oil. The sex oil is also chef's kiss. They also have this thing called the Pleasure Set, which is their three bestselling products, which includes the Awaken Arousal Oil, the sex oil, and Intimacy Meltz.

The three of them together is like the ultimate sexual experience. Like you will be so connected to your partner or to yourself. Like honestly, you have to try this. I urge you to have the urge to use these products, which will give you more of the urge. Treat yourself, treat your partner, but especially yourself. Go get your juiciest, deepest, sensual experience today.

Foria has a deal. There's always a deal. Get 20% off your first order by visiting foriawellness.com slash terrible or use code terrible at checkout. That's F-O-R-I-A wellness.com forward slash terrible. You'll get 20% off your first order. You can thank me later. Honestly, don't thank me. All I need from you is for you to have that experience. Okay? Don't thank me. Thank yourself afterwards.

This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Whether you're selling a little or a lot, Shopify helps you do your thing however you cha-ching. From the launch your online shop stage all the way to the we just hit a million orders stage. No matter what stage you're in, Shopify's there to help you grow. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash special offer all lowercase. That's shopify.com slash special offer.

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be.

After Kelly's dad dies, Grandpa Wilfred steps up big time. We all called him Pa or Papa. He was like the definition of a kind and gentle man. Like just quiet and just gentle and kind. Like, I feel like if you gathered all my cousins in a room and said to all of us, and like my siblings said to all of us,

okay which one was the favorite we would all look at you straight in the face and we would see like oh there was no favorite he loved all of us equally which is true but then if you pulled us aside i feel like we'd all be like yeah i was the favorite because he made each of us feel so loved and accepted and he was just he had no mean bone in his body he just and he was so quiet

So he did this with like very little words. He never showered us with praises or anything, but like you just knew that you were valued and you were loved. Like your picture was everywhere. He had like a closet door next to where he sat that was covered in pictures of his grandchildren and eventually his great-grandchildren. So like your picture was always on display. You knew you were loved. I just had this awareness that like,

My dad wasn't around to witness the things in my life anymore. My dad really only, as far as like adult milestones, he only got to witness my prom because my high school graduation was in the fall, you know, so he didn't even get to see that. But he had seen like

my sister go through all her major milestones, like graduate high school and college marriage, baby, you know, my brother had a girlfriend, like who eventually he got married and like, we all knew they would get married, but I didn't have any of that. So like my grandpa kind of

took that place of the person who would witness all the adult things. You know, like if I ever had any sort of news, it wasn't real to me until...

I told my grandpa, like my grandpa was like my first call when I got a new position at work. If I had an accomplishment, I did like an obstacle course and I, you know, they gave out a funky hat and that kind of thing and a medal. I took it to my grandpa and I have a picture of my grandpa wearing my hat. My grandpa's love was just...

It is aura heat. Towards the end of university, my routine was every Monday I would go to school. I had classes until about noon. I would eat lunch at my favorite cafe on the walk back to my car. And then I would go to my grandpa's house and we would watch soap operas together or like old westerns or like in the heat of the night.

He was just a very quiet man. And sometimes I feel like he was almost self-conscious of the fact that he didn't know what to say. But it was just nice to be with him. You know, like he was just so kind all the time. Of course, Kelly loved her grandpa, but it was so much more than that. She held her grandfather close out of love, but also out of fear.

I really latched on to the important men in my life, especially them in my family, like my brother and my grandfather. So the thought of anything happening to them, like my dad had randomly had a heart attack. If I thought about something random happening to my brother or my grandfather, it would just put me into this panic.

And when I was in third year university, my grandpa fell and broke his hip. Now, in this time, I'm going through and taking classes. And I think one of them was adulthood and aging. And they talked about how if old people fall, it's very bad.

Because the anesthesia is so bad for your body. And like, honestly, just repeating those sentences just brings the anxiety all right, all the way back. As soon as my mom told me, hey, Papa fell. He broke his hip. I was like, what? What? You mean this very important person in my life is fragile too? What?

No, I had one grandparent left. He was like the father figure in my life and he was mortal. No, why? This can't happen right now. And it was very scary to realize that he was mortal and he could break. That's when I really was like, I need to put my claws into him and never let him go.

People who have experienced loss know this feeling, this desire to wrap every precious person that we love in bubble wrap, to place them in a little terrarium on our shelves and tend to them like little creatures, to want to freeze them in time and space and keep them safe from the inevitable. I had my hopes because he turned 85 the year that I was taking that adulthood and aging class.

So, like one of the statistics that I learned is if you reach the age of 85, you have a high statistical probability of reaching the age of 100.

So when he turned 85, I called him up and I was like, hi, Papa. Happy birthday. You are officially considered resilient and you have a high statistical probability of reaching the age of 100. And like for me, I'm like a person who's big into statistics. So I was like, OK, this means I've got like how many ever more years with him? He's not old. He's not old. He's not old. He's a resilient young man of 85.

who then develops prostate cancer. It was around the summer of 2013. They went in and they realized it had spread. It was a lot worse. What my mom thinks happened is they think that the last time they had gone in, that they missed a little bit and it all it took was a little bit. From there, it was able to grow too fast for them to take it out again and it had spread to his bladder.

And he decided that he didn't want to go through treatment anymore. He had tried a few of the treatments and they were just too painful for him. It was just too painful. And I think he was just tired. He just wanted to live his life, enjoy the rest of his time with his family. You know, even now thinking about it, it's very emotional. Like, just like, what do you mean you don't want treatment? What do you mean? He,

You don't want to have more time. What do you mean? It was very hard to accept. Kelly's fear of the men in her life dying is a valid one because that's what happens to everyone eventually, of course. But Grandpa Wilfred's death is the second big loss in Kelly's life. It's not just the death of her grandpa, but of her second dad. When did you meet your husband?

I met him when I was, I think like 26 or 27. We went to the same church and he went to this like kind of small group potluck thing at somebody else's house that was called like home church. And they would go there and they would discuss like the questions on the bottom of the like pamphlet that they handed out at church and

And I went there and I was knitting at the time. And I think my husband thought I was shy because I was like knitting. Although I can, I can knit and keep up a conversation, but like I'd heard a lot about him through other people that he was a nice guy. So I was like, oh, I'm going to get to know you because you seem really nice. And he is very handsome. What was it like falling in love with a man and still being...

afraid of the men you love dying.

I cried over stupid things, Nora. One time we were watching The Hobbit and it was the one where, spoilers, one of the characters is stabbed by a spider and dies. And I remember my husband being like, what if I was stabbed by a spider and died? And he like leaned into the joke hard and I just burst out into tears. Like something fictional that could never, ever happen. And I'm just crying over it.

That is what losing your dad will do to you. One of the things that I love about my husband is like he's a very kind of, he's very affectionate, he's very kind, he's very practical, he's like, I don't expect flowers or jewelry on a regular basis. My husband has never given me jewelry other than like maybe a necklace and some earrings, my wedding ring. But if he goes to the store and he sees my favorite chips,

or like a snack that he knows I'll love, you know, he'll get it for me. And he'll be like, I bought you this. And I know that's his way of being kind. And I'd actually gotten into a car accident right before we started dating. And he bought me a TENS machine. I was like, oh, this is really nice. And I told my friend about it. She's like, that's

A TENS machine. A what machine? Like, they put, like, little electrode packages that you put on your back, and then it's connected to a machine, and it does, like, electrical pulses. Like, he was just a very generous guy. Like, I thought it was, like, we had

kind of started hanging out and I thought he was interested in me. So I thought, oh, this is a nice romantic gift because like that was one of the things that my grandpa had taught me is that romance can be is more than flowers. It's practical things. My grandpa really influenced what I saw as romantic. So when my husband bought that gift for me, I saw it as like a really practical romantic gift.

When you've gone through a big loss, you just can't go back to the way life was before. It's like owning a home that you can't enter. You can peer through the windows. You can jiggle the door handle. It's right there. But you can't step over that threshold again. You want so badly to be able to meld your life before and your life after together. You want to be able to introduce the people you love now with the ones you loved before.

Like I never really dated before my dad died. I didn't go on any dates or anything like that. So like my dad never got to see like the pride moment of all, you know, my little girls going on a date. And I had dated a guy in university, my first serious relationship. And I actually knew him from our high school youth group.

And he had met my father. So I was like, oh, this is so awesome. I'm with a guy that had actually met my dad and actually like knows and has memories of my dad. And then we broke up and it didn't end well. I remember walking to university and thinking, I will never have that again.

I will never be with anybody who's known or met my father. And that made me so sad. Kelly can't do that with her dad and her husband. Unless... Remember that photo that Kelly told us about at the top of the episode? Of a random grade school birthday party with lots of kids and parents in a local restaurant? The first person to find that photo was actually my mom.

They found it after my grandpa had died. They were looking through old photos for like the funeral home, you know, for the slideshow and the photo boards that they put up. And they came across this picture and my mom looked at it and she called me up and she's like, I have a picture of us at one of your friend's birthday parties. And we're sitting right across from your husband. And it was just a really nice picture.

Let me describe this photo again because I want you to see it as vividly as possible in an audio-only medium. There's a long, crowded dining room table in the back corner of a Chinese restaurant. There are dim sconce lights spaced along the walls, and the ceiling is made up of those sunken, square panels that you find in every office building. There's a long, crowded dining room table in the back corner of a Chinese restaurant.

The entire table is covered with everyone's water glasses, dinner plates, condiments, and at the very back end, a bunch of bright balloons.

The restaurant from this angle looks full and lively. It's a child's birthday party. Every person there is engaged in some kind of conversation with the person by them. There's a man with short, graying hair in a big green sweater sitting on the left side of the table near the middle of the photo. His arms are crossed and he seems to be the only person in the photo who notices the photographer out of the corner of his eye.

And across from him, glancing down as he takes a bite of his food, is Kelly's husband, Ty. He's a teenager. His hair is shaved close to his scalp. And he's wearing a plain white t-shirt. They did meet. They shared a meal together. They breathed the same air. They sang the birthday song at the same time. Totally unaware of the ways that time would link them together and keep them apart.

That they were a future son and father-in-law. That photo honestly makes me so happy. When my mom found that picture, it was just so nice. It was like the universe giving something back to me. And like, you know, my husband doesn't remember this encounter, but we know it happened.

He's like, you know, at the time of my life, I was in that, you know, I would have been like conversational. I would have talked to your dad. Like, so, you know, they would have had conversation. Like he's sitting right across from my father in this picture, like right across from him. Isn't that kind of magical? It is. It is really wonderful. And like, you know, when I got married, I had like a 1950s wedding.

And so I found this kind of retro-ish picture. And I had this picture sitting on the table where we signed our documentation that we were getting married, like our wedding certificate. So there's a picture of the picture in my wedding photos. This photo is magical and inexplicable. It is coincidence, but also magic.

Maybe it isn't, depending on how we allow ourselves to see these kinds of things. People are a non-renewable resource. Our loved ones are available to us for a finite amount of time. When they're gone, they're gone, and that's it. So if and when we get these flashes of recognition, these links to our dead loved ones, maybe they're worth examining, worth pausing to admire, worth giving meaning to.

This could have been a photo that was tossed out, or it could be a message from Kelly's dad, a wink from the universe, a reminder that our connections remain far longer than our bodies do.

This podcast is supported by FX's English Teacher, a new comedy from executive producers of What We Do in the Shadows and Baskets. English Teacher follows Evan, a teacher in Austin, Texas, who learns if it's really possible to be your full self at your job, while often finding himself at the intersection of the personal, professional, and political aspects of working at a high school. FX's English Teacher premieres September 2nd on FX. Stream on Hulu.

Getting dressed can be stressful. Maybe because you open your closet and you just see a bunch of stuff but nothing to wear. Maybe because you don't really like shopping. Or maybe because you're trying to cut down on your consumption.

Armoire makes getting dressed easy. It is a clothing rental membership that helps you build the perfect wardrobe with brands that are high quality, unique, and importantly, recommended just for you. I signed up for Armoire, took a five-minute style quiz, and selected items from a personalized closet that included one of my very favorite brands, Bowdoin.

And guess what? I actually got to rent a Bowdoin top that was sold out before I could even buy it. So now I still get to wear it. The styles show up at your door in as little as two days. And when you're ready for something new, you can just swap them out for more new-to-you styles. There's plenty of inspiration, suggestions. I actually found an influencer on Armoire who had an entire collection targeted towards tall women. Guess what I am? I'm a tall woman.

So whether you're planning your outfit for a date night, packing for a conference, want something to wear on a regular old day, or are looking for a special gown for a black tie event, you can find it on Armoire.com.

And right now, you can give Armoire a try and get up to 50% off your first month. That's up to $125 off. Just visit armoire.style.com. That's armoire.style.com to get up to 50% off your first month and never worry about what to wear again. Try Armoire today.

In 2019, Kelly gets pregnant with her first child, Oliver. And this experience will change anybody. But when you are also carrying a grief baby alongside your human baby, pregnancy can really do a number on you. The first thing I did was I was like, okay, I have to find a way to

To know that my son, well, I didn't know I was a boy at the time. My baby always knows that I love them because like I would give anything to have another talk, another anything from my dad and my grandpa to know that to have them like just personal to me. And I was like, okay, we need to problem solve this.

This needs to be fixed. I'm probably weird, but I'm like carrying a baby knowing that one day I'm going to die. And I'm just like, this is a problem that needs to be fixed. Probably not the thought of a lot of new mothers or like pregnant mothers. But it's the thought of a mom who knows that sometimes parents die sooner than they should. I can't tell you how many times I've wished to have a dream interacting with my father.

Like most times when I dream about my dad, it's something weird. Like he faked his death and he's really alive and I'm going to go see him. And then the dream ends and he's like, come on, come on. Or he's off in the distance and I can't talk to him for whatever reason. And I did have a dream about him one time when I was getting a fitting for my wedding dress. My wedding dress was made by a seamstress and I had a dream that my

he was there with me at this fitting and telling me how beautiful I was. And he was so happy to see me in my wedding dress. And I just woke up and I was crying. Like the, the pillow was drenched in tears. Like that's a very special dream, but that's also a very sad dream. Cause like I could picture him saying those things and,

but it didn't actually happen. Like it was a gift in the sense that I have that dream in my head, but it's also not real. Like maybe you could argue, depending on your spirituality, that that's what he would be saying. You know, maybe his presence, I felt his presence or something like that. But like, I didn't actually hear those words from him. So this is how Kelly solves this problem.

She writes. She writes in a journal that exists in PDF format in the cloud, in multiples, just in case. A journal that is letters for Oliver, who isn't even here yet. For when Oliver is older. For when Kelly might not be here.

Whenever I write a letter, I'm aware of the fact that it's about like a moment today. So like, I feel like whenever the idea of a letter comes to me, I just try to soak in that moment because I want to be able to articulate it well to him later in a letter. My precious Oliver, we had such a lovely evening today. My favorite part was when we were all together right before

Do you remember writing that? I do. I do. That's one of the things I love about writing is like when you read it, it generally takes you back to that moment. I just want him to know that he is loved always.

Like these special moments, because eventually he's not going to remember that. Like he's never going to remember being two years old, but like now he can read over that story again and again, no matter how many times he wants to. That's the thing is one day I'm going to die and there will be no more stories. So knowing that he will have my voice, like written words,

in my voice telling him that I love him until the end of time. It just... Like, do you see it? Do you hear the relief in me just thinking about that? I just envision him maybe one day missing me and reading the letter and thinking, you know, my mom felt it was so important that I knew I was loved that she left this for me.

That she put this thought into me that I would always have her. That I would always have her love. Her words of love telling her, telling me how much she loved me. Like to me, that's beautiful. The idea that I can comfort him when I'm not there to comfort him. The simple act of being loved well by her father and grandfather shaped Kelly. And now she gets to show Oliver not just her love, but all of the love that shaped the way that she loves.

Her father's silliness, her grandfather's attentiveness. Kelly is sharing her legacy of love, an intergenerational love. My sweet Oliver, tonight in the bath, you told me you were bad. On one hand, I was so heartbroken you had said that, but I was also so happy you came to me to discuss it rather than keeping it to yourself.

You told dad and I that your toys told you that you were bad and you told us how it made you sad. Well, I lined them up and I told them how we don't call each other bad and how that hurt your feelings. I encouraged you to tell your toys how you felt. We talked to you about how we both love you so much, no matter what. You are learning and growing every day. Oliver, I hope to teach you

That goodness isn't necessarily behavior. We all make mistakes and we all do things we regret. That doesn't make a person bad. To me, it's about what you do after the mistakes. Are you willing to make amends and learn from your mistakes? To me, that's more important than behaving perfectly all the time. What I really want you to know is I will always love you, always and no matter what.

There will be times when we don't agree and I will still love you. We will both make mistakes in life and in our relationship and I will still love you. You are always my child and I will always love you. Sometimes I look at you and I just can't believe you're my son. You are so joyous and wonderful and for some reason the universe decided I get to be your mom. Love always, mom.

Thank you so much, Kelly, for sharing your story with us. We love stuff like this. We love magical thinking. We love winks from the universe, signs from our dead loved ones. We can't get enough of it. And we heard from so many of you all the ways that your dead loved ones send you little winks in your day-to-day life. So many that we made this month's premium mailbag episode all about it.

I lost my beloved grandfather in 2015, and he was always a jokester. I remember one of the very first pranks he pulled on me when I was probably four. We were standing outside, and he said, oh, look up at the sky. You see how those birds are flying in a V? I was like, yeah. He said, do you know why one side of the V is longer than the other? And I was ready for him to impart...

some grand wisdom on me and I said why Papa he said well because that side has more birds in it and I to this day every time I see a bird formation flying in a V I cannot help but think of him

Thank you.

Terrible.

Terrible Thanks for Asking is an independent podcast. Podcasting has changed so much in the past few years, and it is a really big deal that we are independent, that we are part of a little independent company that we made up called Feelings & Co., where we bring you all kinds of feelings. Terrible Thanks for Asking. It's going to be okay. Terrible Reading Club. And we'll have a few new shows for you in 2024.

Supporting our show financially is not an obligation in any way, but it does help keep us going, frankly, and help keep our shows free for everybody who might need to hear them.

Our team at Feelings & Co. is myself, Marcel Malakibu, Claire McInerney, Megan Palmer, Michelle Planton, and Grace Berry. Our supporting producers are Kim Morris, Bethany Nickerson, Rachel Humphrey, Jamie Zimmerman, and David Farr. Supporting producers are people who support us at the highest level over on our Patreon, patreon.com slash ttfa. We love all of you. We literally couldn't do this without you.

Our theme music is by Joffrey Lamar Wilson. And I think that's it, guys. I think that's it.

When's the last time you thought about your employee benefits? I know you probably don't want to think about that right now, but they're important because you are important. Because people matter and so does technology, which is why The Hartford is so committed to providing a benefits experience like no other. Putting care and compassion into the technology behind benefits to create a better benefits experience for everyone. Learn more at thehartford.com slash benefits.