Pep Talks
01:07:11 Share

Hi guys, it's Nora. If you like what we've done here on Terrible Thanks for Asking, you might want to check out our YouTube channel. We have two new videos going up every week over at youtube.com slash at feelings and co. That's feelings and co. There's a link to it in our show description. So see over on YouTube if that's what you're into. What a sales gal I am. 24 shifts.

24 culinary showdowns for 24 hours straight. Which chef will out-cook, out-pace, or blast the competition? No chef escapes the clock. All new, 24 and 24, Last Chef Standing, Sunday night at 8. See it first on Food Network. Stream next day on Max. How are you? Most of us say fine or good, but obviously it's not always fine, and sometimes it's not even that good.

This is a podcast that gives people the space to be honest about how they really feel. It's a place to talk about life, the good, the bad, the awkward, the complicated. I'm Nora McInerney, and this is Thanks for Asking. Hello, everybody. It's Nora McInerney. This is Thanks for Asking, a call-in show about what matters to you. Now,

Sometimes when I'm having a call day, I typically do the calls on Tuesdays. If you are wondering, a theme will sort of emerge. And sometimes I'm looking for a theme. Sometimes I will say, you know what, if you're calling me tomorrow, here's what I want to talk about, right? Call in if you want to talk about X, Y, Z. A lot of people right now are, hmm,

How do we say struggling? A lot of people are really going through it. I would say most of us, if you are not going through it, I actually want you to call me because I think that would be fascinating. Who amongst us is truly thriving?

That is a story that I want to hear. But I would say the vast majority of us, we are out here kind of winging it, holding on by one ragged fingernail at the very edge of a cliff. We are at the end of a rapidly fraying rope. We are like, I believe it was Captain Hook standing astride a hungry crocodile. Could be an alligator. I know they're different species and they're very sensitive about that.

whose mouth is open, one foot on one jaw, one foot on the other. I believe a clock is open in the crocodile slash alligator's mouth. This is, of course, a metaphor for something. I didn't get it as a child. I certainly don't get it now. A lot of us are like that, right? The crocodiles or alligators are snapping. We are barely balancing on. A lot of people out here could use a pep talk. I am, of course, one of them. I try, keyword try, to start my day

by going into the living room with a notebook, with a cup of coffee before the kids are open, before the kids are open, before the kids are awake, before the child's door opens, before the children open for business. I get myself out to the living room. I open a notebook and I just write down

I write good things to myself. Like I try to speak to myself the way I would my children, the way I would a beloved friend. I basically try to write a pep talk for myself to start my day. Today is the first episode of Pure Pep Talks. I am here to listen to what these callers are going through and I am here to hype them up

through whatever life has thrown their way so far. This will be an ongoing series within Thanks for Asking. So if you are in need of a pep talk, I'm gonna say this right now, you're gonna wanna call 612-568-4441. I glitched just there.

You could text, you could call, leave a voicemail, leave a text and say what you need a pep talk for, and I will give you a call and I will pep talk you. I will not have any of you walking around thinking bad things about yourself, about your situation, not on my watch. No, no, no, no, no. I can do that. You can't do it. So this is the first episode of pep talks. Thanks for asking. That...

construct does not work for every episode and so thank you for being patient while i purely wing it me and marcel out here just two wings two people we each have one wing and with that one wing we can balance each other out and somehow still sort of fly

These are pep talks. We've got more coming soon, but if you need a pep talk, what are you going to do? You're going to call me. You're going to text me. That number is 612-568-4441. Now let's get into our calls. Hi, this is Jamie. Hi, Jamie. It's Nora. Hi, how are you? I'm good. How's it going?

I'm doing okay. I'm sure you got my long-winded post yesterday, your email. I loved it and I got it, but I want to hear it from you. So again, I've been following you probably since my niece died in 2023 because there's

so few resources out there for people going through grief. And I've had a lot of experiences with it from my cousin dying when I was 11 to my dad dying and me finding him at 25 to, again, my one-year-old niece passing away from pneumonia within four hours. And I feel as though in all of those timestamps in my life,

you, especially from the very first time with my cousin and being 11 years old, I like had to grow up really fast. Like life was kind of, you know, thrown at me and, but I was young. And then with my dad, it was like, okay, it's, it was unexpected. And, you know, it's basically like cutting off a limb. Right. Yeah. But

I was at least able to like take that as like a positive, you know, like live every day. Like it's your last just, you know, live. Yeah. I think in this situation with my niece, I've like 180. I'm like, what's the point? Like when it can all just be taken away. I mean, I was our family's like first grandkids. So, you know, my mom went from being a grandma to not being a grandma. My sister, you know, went from having a kid to not having a kid and, um,

I don't know. That's where I'm like, I, I've just been, I, you know, I can try not to compare myself to everyone else, but I just feel like comparative to the rest of, you know, the people in my orbit, I'm the one that's like constantly getting hit with death. Yeah. Yeah. Which is might be true, honestly, you know, it's, it never, it's like disaster is, is

So random and also just so deeply unfair. And I think because American culture really does want you to come out of everything better, it's easy to feel like you are defective or you must be doing something wrong if you are not immediately able to turn the

lemons that you did not ask for. I would say people's least favorite fruit.

You know, corrosive. Okay. If you see what lemons can do to like a concrete countertop, I have because we have a lemon tree and you know, I do force my children to make those lemons into lemonade. It's an irritant for concrete, for human skin. Okay. And we're just supposed to add sugar to it and be like, and now it's a drink and we love it and everything is fine. And when you feel that pressure,

from not even just like people around you who are like, okay, like, yeah, I get it. Like, but you know, could we just sort of like move on from this, but also from like a culture at large that is like, okay, yeah. Like your niece died and she was one year old, but like, can't you see that everything happens for a reason? Like maybe, which is, I hate it. I hate it. And whether or not people say that specific thing to you, there are plenty of other messages that you are receiving that

loud and clear everywhere you look that's like, well, you should...

be grateful and your gratitude to be able to cancel out any other feeling that you are having because at least you got that year, right? At least you got to know her for a little bit. And it's like, can anyone just say, that's horrible. That shouldn't have happened. That is unfair. I'm sorry. Certainly. Yeah. Like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. There's nothing that is going to make that make sense. Yeah.

At all. And I'm sure that you are, you know, like seeing a therapist. I had been again. I feel like I'd seen a few. I'd even I was not married before she died. So I even did like couples counseling before getting married with my now husband because it was like.

you know, can we even handle this? And I felt lucky because I was like, well, we're not married. So if he can't handle this, you know, I'm not having to go through a divorce after it all. Thank God. Yes. Yeah. We, we saw, we saw someone and by the, by the end of it, it was like, no one really knows what to say. And I think that's because people, I feel like

want to be courteous and ask, but then you'll say something like terrible. Thanks for asking. And then they like, you know, clog up and they like, you know, they, then they feel uncomfortable for asking. And like, they don't even know how to take the reality that like, you know, so many people have constantly will run into me and go, how's your sister doing? And I'm like, terrible. Like, yeah, she's doing really bad. She's doing really poorly. And like, so are we.

So are we. I actually, I had a friend of mine who's older, who's a grandmother. Her grandchild died in infancy. And she said that was the loneliest loss of her life because, you know, it's almost like a, not a disenfranchised, but it's almost like, it's just like not even registered for people.

Do you know how long it had been since I actually saw a doctor for myself? Not a doctor for my pregnancy, not a doctor for my children, a doctor for me. It had been so long that...

I couldn't even remember my former doctor's name. Why was I putting it off? I was putting it off because finding a doctor is annoying and difficult and navigating the healthcare system is deeply annoying. And also I will put anything off. I am a master procrastinator. And then came ZocDoc.

I ended up trying ZocDoc because I heard about it on another podcast. I loved it so much. I said, will you please advertise on my podcast? They said yes. ZocDoc is a free website where you can search and compare doctors that are in your network

Doctors of a specific specialty, doctors by location. We're talking everything from mental health, dental health, primary care, urgent care. I found the best doctor. I love her. I think she feels the same way about me. But the point is, I found a doctor through ZocDoc and it was so easy. I made the account. I logged in, found her. I was seeing her two days later. That is unheard of in my world. And

I'm never going to just not go to the doctor for years again because ZocDoc is keeping track and they will be like, lady, you have not done your well woman visit. It's time to do it. I truly love this. If you have not checked it out yet, if you have not tried it, I insist that you do. You are worth taking care of. You are worth taking a little bit of time out of your day to go take care of yourself and find a place

doctor that is right for you. So stop putting it off. Go to ZocDoc.com slash thanks. You can instantly book a top rated doctor today who takes your insurance, is in your area. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C dot com slash thanks. ZocDoc.com slash thanks.

I'm such a fan of Phoria that I actually reached out to them to ask them to be an advertiser. And if you are looking to increase your intimacy, your arousal, your sensuality to connect with your partner and also with yourself, you need to try Phoria.

The Awaken Arousal Oil is... I mean, it's going to blow your mind. Okay? This will be... Imagine the best orgasm you've ever had and then imagine...

That it's 10 times better. Okay, that's a number I just made up. I can't quantify what this feels like, but the arousal oil helps get you going and will give you deeper orgasms. You will feel amazing whether you're with a partner or you are on your own.

They also sell this pleasure set that has the arousal oil, the sex oil, the intimacy melts. The pleasure set is like a magic combination for just a mind-blowing sexual experience. So, Phoria is here to help you have really good sex and more of it. The kind that makes you feel nourished, juicy, more alive. They make life-changing, all-natural, organic formulas for your most intimate needs. So, I would love...

So I think you should try this if you haven't. I think you should go ahead and treat yourself, maybe even your partner, experience your deepest sensual experience and try FOREA. FOREA has a little deal for you. Also, you can get 20% off your first order by visiting foreawellness.com slash thanks or use code thanks at checkout. That's F-O-R-E-A wellness.com

forward slash thanks, and you'll get 20% off your first order. Try the Awaken, try the Pleasure Set. Thank me later. We get support from Skims, and I am personally being supported by Skims right now. If you have ever tried a push-up bra and thought, I don't know, this one's just not for me, you have to try the Skims Ultimate Push-Up Bra. I am a member of the Tiny Boob Club, TBC. When I wear...

The Skims Ultimate Push-Up Bra. It looks like I got the world's best boob job. I am telling you. Suddenly, I have cleavage, like nice, perfect. Like my clothes are all like filled out. If you see me looking like I have boobs, it's because I am wearing this bra.

I'm also a huge fan of the Skims Triangle Bralette, the Skims Ultimate Strapless Push-Up Bra. Strapless bras are a tough one for me, but this one is my go-to. It is actually the only one that I have right now because I was like, I'm throwing them all out. I'm throwing them all out. I'm starting from zero. I'm starting with the Ultimate Strapless Push-Up Bra from Skims. These are truly the

the best. Like you feel lifted, but your boobs aren't like flattened out. I don't get quad boob, which is a thing that happens with strapless bras often. If you know, you know.

If you have not tried out Skims, you and your boobs are missing out. So go check out the Skims Ultimate Bra Collection and more at Skims.com or at a Skims store. If you want to support our show, you can place your order at Skims.com and then select podcast in the survey and then select thanks for asking so they know that we sent you. Again, go to Skims.com, check out their bras, especially their push-up bras, and you're welcome.

Yeah, my sister always says she wishes she was born like 250 years ago when like infant deaths were way more common so that she didn't feel like she's such a

you know, she's kind of estranged at this point. Cause what people don't really realize is the new friends she was making was that like mommy and me places. And you can't just turn around and go back to those places without a kid. Like, yeah. Yeah. And you're her sister and you like, you were, this is your first time being an aunt, right?

And like that is so big and people, you know, it's like they, people like literally just don't know until they know. And I do think that's like one of the great tragedies of like the human experience is that we just don't know until we know.

And I know from my own experience, like I remember one of my very best friend's dad's dying. And I like did all the things that you're supposed to do, right? Like I went to the funeral. I sent a card. I think I dropped off like a hot dish. And then I just never brought his dad up again because I figured like it would make him sad.

And then my dad died and I was like, oh my God, my friend has been living with this feeling and this loss for years. And I messed it up. You know what I mean? Like I missed it. Like I missed the opportunity to like show up for him. Yeah. Showing up has always been my, almost my number one, like

sign of friendship at this rate. Again, I'm like, I've, I've gone through this a few times now that like, I kind of know the drill, but whatever I tell someone is like, it's more than just asking about how I'm doing. It's about showing up. And I think that's where I'm at, where I'm like, you know, you go through this and you realize that you get that like immediate, like prayers for you, like even the stuff going on in California. Right. Like, and then

People move on and such is life and they just stop showing up. Yeah. Do you think, are you feeling lonely in this loss? I think, I think it's more the aspect of like,

witnessing my family like continue to fracture. And like, again, you kind of, you know, you put all your hopes and dreams into the next generation and like children are a symbol of joy and hope. And when, you know, I'm watching now the kids that,

are either her age in which she like passed away. Yeah. And like realizing that I'm going to be able to like watch them transition and grow and see what their face faces turn out, you know, like, yeah, I think it's more just, you know, I even went through some of my sister's childhood photos and you sit there and you wonder like, would she have looked like you, you know, like it's

It's just all shitty and tough. And I think I'm at like the point where I'm like, I just don't, again, I've definitely like lost hope and joy. Yeah.

It's kind of ironic because my sister and her husband had a license plate that said, choose joy. Oops. Again. Oops. Yeah. I mean, we choose it up to a point and then it just does, it does become hard to access. And like, I know that, I know that feeling, you know, like I can hear it in your voice and it's

I do want you to go on psychologytoday.com, which is like match.com, but for therapists, and find somebody who specializes in grief and date therapists and be like, I want to work through this. I need to feel something else. And also, it is – I think that

especially a loss that is so absolutely senseless. You cannot make sense out of a one-year-old dying. You can't. You are never going to be able to tell me something that will make that specific thing be okay. And my dad said when he was dying and before he knew he was dying too, he would always say life is for the living. And I was like, okay, cool. I'm

Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. That's a very quippy. Thanks, Steve. But like it really is. And when we sort of, I feel like grief can either shut us down or open us up. And it's very scary to watch your family be affected by this and losing family.

a person that everybody loves so deeply, I thought, oh, it's going to bring everyone so close together. But sometimes it feels like that loss is so hot for everybody that like you almost can't face it all together because it's too much.

It's too much to put all of your loss together in a pot and watch it boil together. And I think that's kind of normal, that kind of feeling. Because it sounds to me like you're processing what your sister is going through and yourself and your parents. And that's a lot for one person. That's a lot for one person. And it's...

I'm not going to tell you that it's going to all work out and everything will make sense because this won't make sense. And there is still beauty in this world that is waiting for you. It will not always feel exactly like this. It won't always feel this way. Oh, my God. Honestly, my family is not the same. Yeah. It's not the same. It's not the same. I feel like it has taken –

a decade for us to kind of like tiptoe back to some semblance of what we were or to start to honor what we are now. It has taken a while. Yeah. I mean, I, I noticed that's where I was like, oh, I'm hoping I can get in right before you, you change the title. Cause again, I'm like, well, I'm glad to have read your newsletter saying that you are in a better space and, you know, you don't have to respond that way. And

I guess that's where I'm just like, I'm still there. And I don't know, like, let's say coping mechanisms, but like maybe like ways to educate people in like that grief takes so much time to get through. I think that's where for me, I'm like, well,

You know, I had to go back to my full-time job. Yeah. Yes. It's absolutely nuts. And I think that's, again, the crazy thing with the wildfires right now is like people joking on, you know, TikTok or Instagram with like people needing to still meet deadlines, even if their house just burned down. Like I, I don't understand the like concept of like this world that we're living in, in which,

everything is go, go, go. And it's not like, you know, I'm not Jewish, but like when someone dies in the Jewish culture, you get a full week of just like everybody coming in. And like, again, I'm just, I'm so disappointed to continue to watch how the world shifts and changes. And I hate that my dad was a pessimist and I took me, you know, to right now in my life to realize why again, he lost his niece.

My cousin was only 17 when she died. So he lost his niece in his 40s. And that probably shifted his whole perspective on how life is from then on. Like, again, because that's where I'm at. I'm like, that moment is where, you know, the moment I got that call, you basically know that your life is forever different. Yeah. And you're the one who's like going through this, walking around with like this huge, like,

hole in your chest. I remember listening to this Paul Simon song that's about a breakup, I believe with Carrie Fisher. And he says like, losing love is like a window in your heart. Everyone can see you're blown apart. Everyone can see the wind blow. And I loved that. And I also was like, no one can see the wind blow.

I was like, it's so beautiful, but like no one can actually see I'm blown apart. I'm actually an incredible actress. So call me Hollywood. But you're right. It's absolutely – it's –

The world makes you feel like you are defective for not being okay when really a year is not that long. And especially when you haven't had time to like truly tend to the wound because you got to go back to work and you've got to make PowerPoints and be on conference calls and, you know, put on a happy face. Like the world moves on in this huge, huge,

like just like the clock just keeps ticking and you're like, can I get like a timeout for the love of God? Can I get a timeout? And I think that I've learned that the people who love you, like the friends, like even the coworkers, people want to show up in the right way and they simply don't know. And the fact is like you are the boss of your own grief, like you are the captain, but, and this is important,

You've never done this before. Your dad has died. Sure. Your cousin has died. Yep. Did your cousin dying make your dad's death any easier for you? That's where I'd say yes. Okay. There we go. Again, I'm like, at least with, you know, I remember it exactly how I felt and where I was and like,

at least with my dad, I had so much time with him, you know, and I didn't have necessarily huge regrets in our relationship or anything. I think like every, you've never lost a one-year-old niece, which is such a, you know, and your sister has never lost a child and your mom has never lost a grandchild. And so you're all amateurs out here and the people around you have, you know,

you know, never worked with somebody who lost a niece tragically at one year old. And so I've kind of noticed that people are literally awaiting instruction of some kind, which is also deeply unfair because you don't need another job. You have another, you have plenty of jobs.

But if you can think of people that really care about you that you need something different from, I think it's worth it to ask them for it and be okay with them doing their best to meet it. Not everyone is going to be able to. But if you...

like I'm struggling to find an example off the top of my head, but I have one, right? I was so lonely after Aaron died and I just felt like I didn't have any, like not adult interaction, but kind of like I was working, you know, I didn't have a job. So I was working sort of alone all day. And then it was just like me and my kid. And I asked two of my guy friends if they would like take me out to dinner

just so I could feel like I was a person in the world. Like I wanted to get dressed up and go out to dinner with a man. One of them was gay. Neither of them were like, you know, these weren't like date scenarios, right? But like I just needed to feel like I was a person again and they did it. And it was so nice. But I had this moment with my sister where

I don't know if it must have been months after all these losses. And I was so upset with her because I felt like she and other people in my life were not showing up. We're not showing up, at least not in the way that I wanted them to. And I'm crying in her car and she's completely flabbergasted. And she's like, I thought you were doing fine.

like, I didn't know you needed any of this. Like, you didn't tell me this. And I was like, how would you not know? We share DNA. We have the same parents. Like, you know, you're my sister. How do you not know? Like, she didn't know because I had not told her and because she had never done it before. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, I think that's where, like right now, I just got a new boss and I'm like,

I remember I told the previous boss what I was going through and I'm like, well, do I do that again? Yeah, you do it again. Even though, again, it's been... Yeah, you say, look, it's been six months. I would love to connect with you about something. And this is just something that you need to know about me because we're not robots. We're not like small countertop appliances that just work at the push of a button. I think it is worth...

telling people what we need and giving them the opportunity to like meet that or not. Because until you tell your boss, like I went through this really traumatic loss like a year ago and therefore X, Y, and Z, like she's not going to know. Yeah. Yeah.

Again, I've just been sitting here debating on it and being like, well, yeah, it has been now a little over a year. And so it's just that like that time, right? Where everyone feels like you should have moved on or that you should be healing. And it's like one of those, like two steps forward, five steps back, one step forward, seven steps back. Like I feel as though I'm still alive.

I did the things where I got married and everyone, while I was getting married, would be like, are you excited to get married? And again, it was like that, like, no, I'm not excited to get married. My brother got married two months before she died. That's the wedding I want to sit there and remember as like,

what that happy moment was comparative to my own wedding that my both of my siblings were like I think it's too early for you to get married like for the sake of the family and I kind of somewhat brushed them off being like

I want to get married. Yeah. I want life. And I was already engaged for two years. Like I had planned this date for forever, but then it really did turn into like what felt like a funeral on my family's side of things again. Yeah. Which is also so sad. Cause like, you know, you deserve that to be like a happy day too. Like you do, I do want you to try therapy again. I also like, I think you should find like a group. Yeah.

If you can. Yeah. I mean, I think the only thing with that is like, I get, we get lumped into the miscarriages, the, you know, like there, there really aren't that many. I'm going to ask when this comes out, I'm going to, I'm specifically asking if there are people who have lost like a niece or nephew, like,

That is such a – you know, the writer Laura McCowan said like one stranger who understands your situation completely can do for you what all the friends and family in the world cannot. It is the necessary balm for pushing into – the quote's going to fall apart, but it's the cool glass of water in hell. Like you need another aunt or uncle who has lost a niece or nephew to

to just connect with. You just need one person at least who just gets this experience. And I'm going to quote one more friend. It's been a year, big deal, who cares? My friend Dr. Anna Roth said, it's not time, it's what you do with the time. And if

All you have been allowed to do with the past year is like survive, like, you know, plan a wedding, like all these things. And you haven't been able to like tend to that wound. Like it's irrelevant. Like it's irrelevant that it's a year. And I remember feeling also like a year was the expiration date and after a year I could not bring this to anybody.

Yeah, that's where – I think that's exactly where I feel right now is that it's – It's expired. It doesn't expire. It doesn't expire. Your grief doesn't expire. And it's not your – again, another Laura McCowan quote. It's not your fault. It is your responsibility. It's your responsibility to –

communicate that to people because again, they only, they are only going on the information they have. And if the information they have is like, Oh my God, Jamie's like so capable, look at her put together a wedding, still killing it at her job. Like they're just going to believe that you are okay. I appreciate that. Cause yeah, I'm like, I feel like I just needed to hear it from someone else. And you know, I hear you and you're saying, you know, let your friends know these are the things you need. And yeah,

Like when they hear this, they're going to be like, oh my God, we had no idea. Like we had no idea. And it's like, it's so hard and it's so vulnerable and it's so like, but it shouldn't be. But just to like send a message and be like, guys, you know, the death-aversary is approaching. And on this day, I don't know how I'm going to feel. Like, can we do something? Yeah. You know, or I just, you know, it's just, and it's so hard, but it's like,

asking for what you need from the people who really do want to be there and are safe places, like also prevents you from like, you know, like crying uncontrollably at the Target checkout line when a 16-year-old boy asks how you're doing. And to him, wherever he is, I apologize. He's a man now. He's in his 20s. Okay. I hope he got therapy after that interaction. Yeah.

But yeah, your grief doesn't expire and you don't have to be doing amazing, but you do like still deserve a life that feels joyful, at least sometimes. You know what I mean? Like you still do deserve like all of the good things and you don't have to deny your current reality to get them.

Okay. I'm so sorry, Jamie, because we are out of time and I feel like I could talk to you forever. And I don't even know if this was like vaguely helpful for you. Hey, I appreciate the call. And I've loved listening to your podcast and I'm excited to hear this new positive twist on everything. It's not a positive twist on everything. It's just like, you know, I'm not here to like bright side, like what you're going through. And like...

Like I said, everything is going to have a sprinkle of sadness to it. That's how I like still relate to the world. Well, my New Year's resolution is to be positive. Yeah, but you don't have to – it's like instead of like – look, you didn't ask me for advice for this, but like –

I did. I mean, I made up a podcast called Is Going to Be Okay because that was an assignment from my therapist, which was like, find an okay thing about your day, right? Like when we use gratitude to be like, well, if you're just like grateful and you're positive, you won't feel anything negative. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's like when you are in the dark and you can see like one little point of light and focus on it, it does start to illuminate everything else. Like we are very rarely as alone as

as we think we are. So I don't know. I hope that was something, but you could like, I'm not saying, I'm not saying no more. I'm just saying I'm not leading with the terrible anymore. I'm not like, it's not the, is that the headline? It's always going to be a footnote. Sometimes it's going to be a paragraph. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, let me thank you for, thank you for letting me call you. Again, same thing. Thank you for the call and look forward to hearing more. All right. Email me your address.

Okay, perfect. Thank you. Bye. Bye. What was I going to say about that quick before I call the next person? I'm...

Yeah. Grief is so lonely. Grief is so lonely. If you are grief adjacent, if you know somebody who has experienced a loss a year ago, however many years ago, like ask them, like ask them what they need. Ask them like what you can. Don't ask them what you can do. I don't know. Look, I don't know. Everyone's doing their best. People are so lonely. People are so lonely. Everybody is struggling. Everybody thinks somebody else has it better or is doing better and like

We aren't necessarily. You are very rarely as alone as you feel.

Hi guys, it's Nora. If you like what we've done here on Terrible Things for Asking, you might want to check out our YouTube channel. We have two new videos going up every week over at youtube.com slash at feelings and co. That's feelings and co. There's a link to it in our show description. So see over on YouTube if that's what you're into. What a sales gal I am.

This episode is brought to you by Chevy Silverado. When it's time for you to ditch the blacktop and head off-road, do it in a truck that says no to nothing. The Chevy Silverado Trail Boss. Get the rugged capability of its Z71 suspension and 2-inch factory lift. Plus, impressive torque and towing capacity thanks to an available Duramax 3-liter turbo diesel engine. Where other trucks call it quits, you'll just be getting started. Visit Chevy.com to learn more. Hi, Nora. Hi, Taylor.

You know what? I'm so I'm one minute late for this, but the last thing that I recorded, I didn't record. Oh, no. Oh, that's very disappointing. Was it a good one? It was such a good one. I was like, damn it.

But also I'm going to cry because it's like, so everything is so funny. It's a Tuesday, but no, it's not. I can't explain to you. It's Monday in a disguise. It's the most Monday Tuesday ever. Yeah. Everything. No one in my house could get out of bed. Everyone's in a mood. Then I look at the clock. I'm 15 minutes late to coffee with a new friend. Never hung out with her before. But then in an upswing, Taylor-

You know, it's at a coffee shop. So, you know, random guy sits at the table and then maybe an hour in, like we're talking about his divorce. So it's... Nice. Nice. Yeah. And then, so then I was late for a meeting because I was talking to a stranger about his divorce. Then I got here. Then I wasn't recording. But anyways, that's how it's going for me. How's it going for you? Yeah.

You know, it's okay. I feel like most of my days are like that, but today's not the worst day. Oh, good. I love hearing that. Right? Like not the worst day for sure. Not the worst is honestly pretty good. It's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. Especially for me. Like that's pretty good. I want to acknowledge that. Yeah. I don't think we give enough credit to days that are just fine.

Mm-hmm. And just okay if that's not enough. Just okay. We got to lower the bar to being like, if nothing horrible happened in a day, I had a good day.

Yes. Yes. And that's, you know, that's actually, it's like, you've already started the pep talk because I feel that way a lot. So basically kind of, you know, what I was like, what should I call in for? I was like, I don't know. Nora emailed me like two days ago and was like, Hey, send me a couple sentences about what you want to pep talk for. And I'm like, I don't even know. I just impulsively saw the appointment and booked it. Love it. Like,

There's so many options. But luckily, I had therapy this morning. And so I asked my beloved therapist, Lisa. Shout out, Lisa. What is it that you think I need? Shout out, Lisa. What is it that you think I could use a pep talk on the most? And it was kind of almost that. So it's been a rough few years. 2024 was real big. Especially, I...

I feel like this is the most succinct way to describe this. I know that you're a fellow Swifty and I think many of your audience members might be too, but it's just like, you know, like the torture poets department. Yeah. I should, I really wish that that did not resonate with me so much in my soul. Like smallest man who ever lived, you're losing me. Like those two songs, if I could send them to my ex-fiance, I swear they're so painful and it illustrates it so well. There's a reason why women...

outside the stadium marched and sang to the smallest man that ever lived. And that is because Taylor Allison Swift plagiarized all of our lives. Okay. Exactly. Exactly. She knew. Were you there? She was there. How do you know? She was there. It's not rare. Yeah. And we'll remember it all too well. All too well. Yes. Yeah. As much as I would love to not remember any of this. Yes. It's like,

She just, she gets it. It breaks my heart that she gets it. It breaks my heart that I get it, you know, but it's like, those are kind of like the two songs that I feel speak to me the most and kind of illustrate what I finally left. Yeah. And so that's great. I did it. I left the toxic relationship.

In 2024, you know, we were together for eight years. We were engaged. I had to call up a wedding, all those kinds of things. Like, you know, it wasn't good. Was not my favorite time of my life. And, you know, now I'm out of that and that's really great. And I am cognitively. Thank you. Thank you. I am cognitively aware. I gotta stop you because that is so amazing. Yeah.

And it's so hard to do that. It is so hard to be the person who is like, like to not fall for the sunk cost fallacy anymore and to not throw good time after bad and say like, and to break a huge pattern of being like, no, it's about to change. It's about to change. Oh, it's about to get good. It's about to get good. It's about to do that. And to say, no, no, no, I am making a different choice.

for myself and my future self. And I am willing to...

walk away. Like that's so big, Taylor. Like that's a, that's a congratulations. That's so big. That's so big. It's bad when that's what everybody was telling me. Yeah. No one's like, Oh my God. Like they're like, thank God. Thank God. We don't have to go to that wedding. Thank God. You bite our tongues. You clean off when they ask if anyone has any reason why these two shall not be wet. Speak now or forever. It's just like,

I put them in straight jackets and ball gag them so that they cannot be given the opportunity. Yeah. So you're, you're right. And like, and that's kind of like, so it's like where I'm at now, it's like, it's been a very transformative year. I did a lot of things that I thought I could never do. I live alone now, you know, I'm taking care of all the animals that,

Couldn't even feed the fucking cats. Like, you know, I'm doing all the things. Yeah. And that's like good. And yet I still just feel like now it's like I did that and that's good, but I'm still not completely better. And like, it's only been a year to know that too, but it's just, it's like in general, I feel like now where I'm at, I made those big moves and I made a big, like big changes and that's great. And things are far better than they ever were. But yeah,

here I am still perseverating on the negative and what I haven't done and how it's not enough and all of those things. And I feel like the biggest thing that I'm having the problem with now is just like the motivation to get up and do what I know will make me feel better and what I know will create the life that I actually want, that I say I want at least, you know? And so that's kind of where I feel like I am now, where it's just like, you know,

I feel like I'm being stubborn. Lisa and I discussed this, that I'm, I'm being stubborn that I, you know, I'm almost faking being not happy or something like, cause there's comfort in this distress. Cause you know, it's not like everything was fine before this dude, you know, everybody's got their childhood stuff and things they've been through. So,

So yeah, that's kind of like where I'm at now. And it's like, I want to be better. I'm better than I was, but I still want to be better than I am. And I just kind of feel stuck and stagnant and don't know how to get myself out of this stuck feeling, you know? What about it feels stuck? Especially with the world we're living in. Yeah. I mean, I think that's part of it. And it's interesting. I've listened to half of the first episode so far. You guys were kind of talking about it a little bit. And so I thought that was kind of funny because it's like,

I do get stuck in that all or nothing mentality. I'm like, well, everything sucks. So I'm just going to let it suck and not try, you know, it's like, Oh, the world sucks. I can't fix it. So I'm just going to rot and be miserable. And that's only hurting myself. Like it's not hurting anybody, but me. Yeah. And I just feel stuck. Yeah. What are the things? Oh, yeah.

Because baby, black and white is so clear. It feels so clear. It feels so crisp. And everything is gray. Everything is gray. And it's my least favorite color. And gray is so boring. And so like what if it wasn't – everything is gray, but everything is like maximalist energy. I'm looking at my desk pad, which has like seven colors on it. Everything is on my wall. It's like everything is everything and yet gray.

I too, I love all or nothing thinking. I love to sort things and be like, yep, sorry. The way that if I have a call at 10 a.m., the hours between when I drop the kids off at school, I couldn't do anything in those two and a half hours. I got another thing. I got a thing coming up. You want me to just start doing another thing? It's a lot. What are the things that you mentioned like, oh, I can't

I don't have the motivation to do the things because like, what are those things that you aren't doing? You know, actually trying harder in therapies. I know that like, you know, like I was kind of battling like an eating disorder. Not kind of, I, I have an eating disorder. Let's be real. You know, throughout all of this and,

you know, I struggle with that. I know that I lean too much on THC and want to cut back, but have a hard time doing that. I know that I need to go work out. I know that that is good and it's endorphins. I know that I know all of these things, but I still just don't seem to be doing it. I'm ruminating on how I could be. Oh, I know. And I'm, you know, I'm, it's hard not to feel like you should do everything perfectly. Yeah.

Yes, and I think that's the problem because then I'm all or nothing and I'm like, well, if it's not all, so it'll just be nothing and I just won't do anything. And if I don't try, I can't fail. That's a big thing. Oh, yeah. And it's also like, well, if I can't get the full streak, then why would I even do it? It's like I'm gamifying my life in a way that does not make sense and is not healthy. And I really, really do relate to this. And also, I mean –

When chaos and struggle and suffering is your homeostasis, like it has been for a long time, it's hard to trust when things are like okay and safe. Like I think that's kind of normal. Like I had a hard time not making my life harder because I was so used to things being –

uphill, both ways, in the snow, pulling a sled. I was so used to things being hard that it was hard for me to... I don't do anything to make it easier or better or to feel like I deserved for it to be easier or better, but you do. That part. Yeah. It's like...

Before you're sort of like skipping and pushing yourself into like the next quote unquote best self, which is such a toxic lie that all of us believe in like this, you know, constant development. Like there is – seasons are real. Not where I live, but in many other places. Like seasons are real. Yeah, no, we're both in Arizona. Okay. You know. Yeah.

right? It's like, you know, and now it's like beautiful weather outside. So you're like, yes, I should go for, I should go for, I should be able to do this. I should be able to do this. Like, oh, I won't be able to do it in the summer. Yes. I'm wasting this weather. I'm wasting this weather, but also like, but I'm still on the couch. I'm still on the couch. I'm still on the couch. We're going to go, we're going to do a walk today is what we're both going to do. We're both going to go on a walk and doesn't have to be like a full half hour. Like we're literally going to just

go outside and walk and turn around when we want to and like, let that be enough because something is still something. And also, even though it's perpetual sunshine here, like biologically, we are, I believe, still wired to want to rest in the winter. And, you know, if you've been in like fight or flight for this long too, like,

That's hard. That's hard. I have like this system that I – do you want advice or do you want me to just listen to you? That's where I should start. No, I want advice. Okay. Hit me. So I made like a list of five things that make me feel better and that I know like when I look at like my best days, I've done some combination of these and it doesn't mean that I have to do all of them every day because that's where I get into that, you know,

You know, failure, failure, failure, failure, failure, failure. So it's almost like think of it like a menu. So these are the things that I know like future me will feel good about and will make today feel better. So for me, it's like sleeping.

Um, so like I want to get eight hours of sleep. That's not always possible, but like I aim for that, uh, drinking water, which I hate, don't want to do. Um, so gross. And then feeling in this state, feeling connected to the world. Like I need to feel a connection with somebody today. I went to coffee with a new friend.

And then also we like got to talking with the guy next to us. And then, you know, like I told you, we were talking about his divorce. And so like that's like a real connection. It's not scrolling, calling a friend counts, you know, seeing somebody counts. But like a phone call like truly does count. Like I need to feel like connected to something or someone. Going to the post office and like making small talk counts. Yeah.

And these are just mine. Yours could be anything. Just think about the things that you know make you feel good, like making the bed. And then reading is one for me. Can I sit down for at least 15 minutes and just read, just get into something? But whatever those things are, make yourself a menu instead of a checklist and a to-do list.

Yeah, that's a good way to think about it. Because I don't know, it's like all I'm really hearing from you, Taylor, is a lot of like judgment of yourself.

I'm really good at it. I've been working on it for a long time. I know, but it's like good gut. It's like, again, you know, I'm like struggling with an eating disorder and I was like in a really toxic relationship that, you know, is worthy of the song The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived. And, you know, I guess I just feel like I should be doing better. It's like, what the fuck?

When you say it like that. Yeah. It's like, and I, I, I understand. And like, it is good to have like an idea of like who you want to be and to try to like live up to that. But it should be about, you know, your, your values. Like you, you, you, you value like your health, you value yourself. Like you want to like, I mean, maybe one of yours is like, I like eat a meal. Yeah.

And I like chew my food and swallow it. And I like trust my body to tell me when I've, you know, like, I don't know, whatever, whatever your eating disorder treatment is, you know, been there. And it's such a, it's such a weird and difficult thing to try to recover from something that is like a part of your daily life. Yes, very much so. You know? Yeah.

It's a, it's, that's a, that's a, that's a tough one. And also like so stigmatized for something that is far more common than people want to believe. Absolutely. It is. Or want to admit. Yeah. More pervasive in this day and age. Yes. Yes. And it's like, good. Gosh. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Also, can I make you do something? Can I give you a prescription? Yeah. This is not medical advice, guys. I'm not a therapist. I'm not a doctor in any way. Okay. I can't tell you how much not of a doctor I am. I think bodies are so bizarre. Who knows how they work? They don't even know how they work. And part of the time they don't work. Okay. But I want you to write down

Like a recap of 2024 and everything that you did, even if you think it's like small, silly, like every single thing. And I want you to like, look at it on a piece of paper. That's a good one. Okay. I can do that. Dr. Nora, not Dr. Nora. Not Dr. Nora. Okay. Bachelor of arts. Okay. Bachelor Nora. Um, uh-huh.

Because I think we don't really get a lot of time to do that and to think about and really acknowledge all of the things that we did. And I know people are like, oh, New Year's over. Now we're just in 2025. But I do think that having some sort of ritual or something that can acknowledge everything that you did is valuable. Yeah.

like, it's valuable. And like, you don't have to do everything perfectly, but like, you should give yourself credit for the many things that you did. I do this thing with our kids and, you know, my mom, because she's here for New Year's and my friend Caroline Moss, because she was also here for New Year's the past two years, but like, love her. She's the best. And, you know,

I call it like family awards night. I do it on New Year's Eve. You can do it whenever you want to do it. Do it with your friends. Do it with your family. Do it with whoever. And like you make a PowerPoint and like everybody gets an award and you kind of recap the year.

that they had and not just like, you know, like, oh, like not just like, you know, the things that, but like things that you're proud of them for. And I would love to see people do this. I'd love to see people do that with themselves and like their friends and like everybody can, I mean, in my house, I'm the emcee and I'm making the awards and I'm the boss of it, but there might be a new iteration next year where like you draw a name and you make the award for somebody. Yeah.

I like these ideas. You know? Like, because truly, I don't know, you did a lot. 2024 is like a big year. Yeah. On top of like a bunch of other big years. I think it's really, honestly, I got to say, I think it's the coolest thing in the world when a woman breaks off an engagement. I got to say, nothing makes me, it's iconic behavior. It really is. It's truly like actually no. No.

actually know is such a fucking cool. You're so cool. That is the coolest thing. Coolest thing. I really do. I really do. Anytime I meet a woman who broke off an engagement, I'm like, Ooh, baby, you're my kind of girl. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. You're like, you know what? I know that this is, you know, compulsory rights of adulthood, but I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. That is fucking cool and brave. Yeah.

Thank you. Eight years. Eight years. It's going to take you a minute to figure out who you are in this new version of yourself. Has it even been a year? It has. It's been officially one year and a month. Okay. It's been one year and a month. I swear to you, every person I talk to today has been like, well, it's been a year. I'm like, and? Like,

Like, as though like... Like, I realize that that's not that long in the grand scheme of things. Yeah. And also, it goes so fast. Years go so fast once you're older than like, you know, 16. You're like, what? I mean, I don't know. It's just like, that's really no time at all. That's kind of bananas. That's kind of bananas. Like, it's going to take you a minute. Like, you were in a situation where it sounds like, you know, you did not... Someone was telling you how things were going. Yeah.

And now you're the boss of your own life and you're the captain of your ship. Yep. And that's cool. You can't sink me anymore. I can't sink you anymore. And like you get to make choices now that are for your own good. Like everything that you do now is for you and like building your life. These are like little loving acts that you get to do for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. You're definitely right.

I will not forget this conversation. Yeah. And stop being mean to yourself. Seriously. It's so rude. Somebody should just get a spray bottle and be inside my mind and just like spritz me every time I'm like, oh, you're a piece of shit. You're a piece of shit. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop.

Yeah. I would be damp always. You would be so damp. We would all be, which like we need because it's so dry here, Taylor. I have been trying to stay still during this call because every time I touch something, I see a visible spark. I'm like, do I need a humidifier? Is that a sign? Yeah, that's Arizona flying.

My skin is peeling off my face. I'm wearing like every kind of moisturizer that I could possibly wear. I've put on like, you know, O'Keeffe's working hands cream, not sponsored, like twice on this call. And my, like my hands look like crepe paper. Like they are so dry. Everything is so dry. That's the good stuff. It's the good stuff. This is the good stuff. It was a gift. It was a gift. Thank you. Shout out to Alicia for bringing that for me. Um,

But wait, I was on something. I was going to say something. I don't remember being nice. Hi, guys. It's Nora. If you like what we've done here on Terrible Things for Asking, you might want to check out our YouTube channel. We have two new videos going up every week over at youtube.com slash at feelings and co. That's feelings and co. There's a link to it in our show description. So see over on YouTube if that's what you're into.

What a sales gal I am. Oh, spray bottles. Spray bottles. My in-laws had this thing that just sprayed air at their dog.

It had like a red top on it. And then it got to the point where they picked it up. She would just stop what she was doing. And I was like, damn, it worked none percent on our dogs. Our dogs have no – you cannot – This is fun. What's this? You can't extrinsically motivate my dogs. One is a rescue who just – she's like, I'll go back under a bridge if I have to. Watch me. I don't care.

Okay. Don't test me. I eat my own poop. Okay. I'm not worried about a little air spray, but thanks. Thanks for trying. A good try. Yeah. A nice. Dream face. Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited for you. I'm excited for you, Taylor. Like, I really am. Like, you just did, like, the coolest, most amazing thing, and now your life is yours. Mm-hmm.

It is. Now I just got to do something with it. But you are. I am. You're right. There I go again. There you go. Stop it. Spray bottle. You are. Spray. You're doing something. It's not just rising from the ashes. Not everything has to be bigger, better. It is good to give yourself time to...

Like, chill. You know, we have ocotillos, right? Mm-hmm. You know, they don't bloom on like a... They bloom when they've got the capacity. Mm-hmm. Like...

sometimes ours just looks like a pile of dead sticks in our front yard. And sometimes, but it's not, you just don't know. And guess what? I don't even think she knows when she's going to bloom next. It just happens. And like, that's okay. That's okay. We don't like judge, you know, nature. We're not like, oh, my head dropped her leaves. Loser. Fuck that ugly tree. I know. Ew.

Ew, gross. Like bears going to sleep for the winter. Loser. Lame. You got to rise and grind, buddy. Yeah. Get it together. What are you doing? There's so much to be done. Yeah. You're in your chrysalis phase, you know, like that's okay. You got to, you got to get a little, get a little goopy as, uh, as Julia Winston on, on refamulating said, like, you got to go through the chrysalis stage. You got to get a little goopy and give yourself time.

Give yourself time. And in the meantime, just do little nice things for yourself. Because for you. Just for me. Just for you. Because like you are worth it. Like think of all the nice things you did for him for eight years. Now you get to do those for yourself. Mm-hmm.

All that energy, all that energy, all that love poured back into you and the people who love you and want the best for you. And now your life is yours and you get to figure out what it is. Like this is like, this is the good part. Yeah. It's the good part. So right. This is the good part. Yeah. And it's not like you just arrive somewhere. Like you got to like build it and figure it out. Like as you go.

All right. I hope that was even vaguely helpful. Thank you so much, Nora. And congratulations. I'm excited about the new podcast. Thank you. Thank you for being here. So yeah, of course, always will be. Thank you so much, Nora. I hope you have a good rest of your day. Bye.

I'm Norma Acknerney. This is Thanks for Asking, a call-in show where we talk about what matters to you. You can call and leave a voicemail or text anytime. The number is 612-568-4441. And there'll be a link in the show description where we have like booking links for, you know, if you want to talk live. I could always like react to a voicemail as well.

Our team is myself, Marcel Malekibu, Grace Berry, Video Production by Extra Sauce, Max Bougrove. Max, I've actually never said your name out loud. And Jeff Landersville. I've never said his last name. Jeff and Max at Extra Sauce. We have two videos a week here, I believe, unless we don't. And when we don't, that's purely my fault. I got to be honest. That's a me thing. That's a me thing.