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Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're celebrating Lili Yohannes officially declaring for the U.S. women's national team over the Netherlands by screaming, if you're Dutch, you ain't much, in the general direction of the land of tulips and windmills. It's Tuesday, November 12th, and on today's show, we'll be talking to ESPN soccer reporter Jeff Kasuf about why he doesn't love the NWSL's expanded playoff format, what to expect in the NWSL semifinals, and how long is too long for a VAR review.

Wait, is that like saying ATM machine? V-A-R. Hey, Sarah, the R stands for referee. Perfect. Plus, we're going to celebrate nationality declarations and the return of camp season. That is PWHL camp. It's all coming up right after this. Are you still trying to find that perfect album to set the mood for getting ready?

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What does Cascauley mean for Lisa, who has HR-positive HER2-negative metastatic breast cancer? I started taking Cascauley in 2020, and I intend to keep taking it as long as it keeps working for me. I have so much going on in my life. I'm a legal assistant, a minister, a grandmother. I love doing all these things, and it's very important that I'm able to keep going.

Individual results may vary. Hiscali Ribocyclib 200mg tablets is a proven prescription medicine used to treat adults with hormone receptor positive human epidermal growth factor receptor 2 negative breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, metastatic, in combination with an aromatase inhibitor as the first endocrine-based therapy.

Thank you.

These are not all the possible side effects.

Kaskali is available by prescription only. Talk with your doctor and visit Kaskali.com for more information for patients and providers, including full important safety information and patient prescribing information. That's K-I-S-Q-A-L-I dot com.

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Welcome back, Slices. Here's what you need to know today.

To the WNBA. Former Los Angeles Sparks head coach Kurt Miller is headed to Dallas. Miller was hired by the Wings to serve as the franchise's new GM and executive vice president of basketball operations. Miller was fired by the Los Angeles Sparks shortly after the season ended, a shocking move

given the injury-depleted roster that he worked with. Rookie star Cameron Brink tore her ACL early in the season. Sharpshooter Lexi Brown sat for more than half the season dealing with Crohn's disease. And point guard Leija Clarendon sat out for the latter half of the season due to mental health as well. The news means that Miller is off the table for the several W teams currently in search of a head coach. Per ESPN's Alexa Philippou, multiple WNBA teams did express interest in Miller before he signed with the Wings.

More W. The Minnesota Lynx announced Monday that they're losing two members of their staff. Assistant coach and two-time WNBA champion Katie Smith is leaving the franchise to head back to her alma mater, Ohio State, where she'll serve as an assistant on head coach Kevin McGuff's staff.

And Lynx GM Claire DeWillius is departing to serve as executive vice president and general manager of the new Unrival League, founded by Lynx star Nafisa Collier and New York Liberty star Brianna Stewart. This leaves two big holes for the franchise to fill after an electrifying season that ended in a loss to the Liberty in the WNBA finals.

A little citizenship news, so to speak. Soccer phenom Lily Johannes has committed to playing for the U.S. national team moving forward. The 17-year-old was born in Virginia, but her family moved to the Netherlands in 2017, and she'd been contemplating representing the Dutch instead.

She made her U.S. Women's National Team debut in a friendly against South Korea in June, playing and scoring in the 3-0 victory. But FIFA rules do allow players to switch their competitive nationality so long as they don't play more than three competitive games at the senior level before the age of 21.

Addressing her decision to declare for the U.S. Women's National Team on Social Media Monday, Yohannes wrote, quote,

Johannes is a certified phenom. In April of last year, she became the youngest female professional in Ajax history when she signed a three-year contract with the Dutch club through June 2026. And at 16 years old, she became the youngest player to ever start a UEFA Women's Champion League group match last year. Johannes' declaration to the U.S. comes less than a month before the U.S. women's national team visits the Netherlands for a friendly.

To hockey, we mentioned yesterday that Canada defeated the U.S. on Sunday to take a 2-1 lead in their five-game rivalry series. Four different Canadians found the back of the net in that 4-1 win. Looking ahead, the rivalry series now takes a pause so players can head back to college or off to PWHL training camps, which begin today. The final two games of the rivalry series between the U.S. and Canada will be played in February. And we're going to get you ready for season two of the PWHL later this week.

In sponsorship news, basketball player Alyssa Peely, who just finished her rookie season with the Minnesota Lynx, has been named the official face of Nike's N7 collection for Native American Heritage Month. Peely, who also recently signed on to play Athletes Unlimited basketball this winter, is of Samoan and Alaskan Inupiat descent. We're going to take a quick break, certainly quicker than a VAR review in the NWSL. When we come back, it's ESPN's Jeff Kasuf.

What does Cascauley mean for Lisa, who has HR-positive HER2-negative metastatic breast cancer? I started taking Cascauley in 2020, and I intend to keep taking it as long as it keeps working for me. I have so much going on in my life. I'm a legal assistant, a minister, a grandmother. I love doing all these things, and it's very important that I'm able to keep going.

Individual results may vary. Hiscali Ribocyclib 200mg tablets is a proven prescription medicine used to treat adults with hormone receptor positive human epidermal growth factor receptor 2 negative breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, metastatic, in combination with an aromatase inhibitor as the first endocrine-based therapy.

Thank you.

These are not all the possible side effects.

Kaskali is available by prescription only. Talk with your doctor and visit Kaskali.com for more information for patients and providers, including full important safety information and patient prescribing information. That's K-I-S-Q-A-L-I dot com.

Imagine the most beautiful panoramic setting. Endless waves crashing on a beach. Kids playing in the park. Now, right smack in the middle of your perfect picture, imagine just one piece of litter. It doesn't fit, does it? And it simply doesn't belong anywhere. Certainly not in California. Not even one piece. Good news? If we work together, we will change it all. Clean California. Zero litter is the goal. CleanCA.com.

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Winning is based on skill. Our Skin tells a story. How we feel and how we look are deeply connected. On Our Skin, a personal discovery podcast, join me, Holly Frey, who you may know from Stuff You Missed in History class, and a slate of incredible guests who share their personal journey with psoriasis, like activist and founder of Get Your Skin Out, Holly Dillon. ♪

The journey initially, for me anyway, started as how do I do things so my skin is not flaring and my psoriasis is not showing? But over this 20-year period of living with psoriasis, I think that has moved into viewing myself and my body as more holistically. Where am I mentally? How am I feeling?

Along with these personal histories, we step back each episode into the jaw-dropping, bizarre, and occasionally poisonous history of our skin. Join us weekly for genuine, empathetic, transformative conversations here on Our Skin. Listen to Our Skin on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Joining us now, he's been covering soccer with an emphasis on advancing the women's game since 2008. In 2009, he launched The Equalizer, the leading website dedicated exclusively to comprehensive women's soccer coverage in North America. He joined ESPN about eight months ago to become the outlet's lead NWSL and U.S. Women's National Team reporter. He's a big fan of fall foliage, but that's about as much personal info as you'll find on him online. He is very secretive. It's Jeff Kasuf. What's up, Jeff?

Thank you for having me. I don't know about secretive, but I guess I'm a bit mysterious by that description. Yeah, you maybe just keep it real business online and I'm an oversharer. So that's when I go digging for personal info, couldn't find much. The good news is you're here to talk soccer and I know you can do that. And it is fall. I know you can do that much. Good season. There we go. There we go. Okay, let's talk quarterfinals. We just witnessed a bunch of those games. New format this year. Playoffs expanded from six to eight teams.

All the top-seeded teams won, but do you think opening playoff weekend affirmed or rejected that expansion? Oh, I think it rejected. I mean, I was anti-expansion the moment that this came.

Um, I think, I mean, we had a clear top four in this league and, you know, I think for as a neutral, especially if you're the league, I think as you're trying to put on an entertaining product in the final, uh, those top four teams have been clear far and above the rest of the league. You know, I think eight teams out of 14 going through, uh, look, I mean, the games were competitive, right? For the most part, Bay FC was, was on a nice run heading into the playoffs, uh,

Nearly pulled an upset, got it to extra time. I think we got off to a really difficult start on Friday night with Chicago just getting absolutely throttled by Orlando. Granted, a historic Orlando team, but I mean, you look at that, that's the eighth seed that has never existed before. It's a sub-500 team. You will find for me that whether it's playoffs or like the general pool of teams going beyond 16, I'm not in favor of endless expansion because I think it has a lot of ramifications. Yeah.

It does feel like, though, there's a benefit in terms of being able to sell tickets, get excitement around a playoff game, use that to motivate fans to return later after they've been to a playoff game and the energy is so high. I mean, as a league that's trying to continue to grow, it feels like it was a win in that sense. Yeah.

Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, we had a record crowd at Gotham, at Red Bull Arena. You know, Spirit Game looked really full and really raucous. You know, I think the good crowds throughout Kansas City have been doing that all year. And Orlando, I think, even for Orlando, you know, typically for their history, a pretty good crowd at 11,000 plus. So, yeah.

You're right. I mean, I think and it's look, I mean, yes, the league expanded. So that's part of it. But they've got four TV partners now, too. Right. And I think, you know, I think it's very clear that the simultaneous announcement last year of the new TV partners and the expansion of the playoffs, there's no separating the two. I mean, this is more TV games. It's good for TV. It's good for teams to play more games. So I get it from a business perspective, from a soccer purist perspective. I'm not in love with it.

When we look ahead, though, is it possible that it will make a difference for top teams not having a buy? We used to see teams with buys get upset. So maybe that continued play and lack of rest will actually be a benefit moving forward? Yeah, I think that's a good point. I mean, we see all four teams advance, all four higher seeds advance. So

I think there was always a struggle, and there will be going forward too, with a disruption to team seasons. Part of that has been not only the bye week, but in the past and ongoing, the FIFA international windows that fall roughly around when the playoffs start. The league decided this year it would be awkward to have a FIFA window in the middle of the playoffs. Let's start them after that window. This window, I think, if I'm remembering it right, is a little bit earlier than it has been in the past anyway, so that helped. But

Yeah, I think that disruption has been a problem for teams in the past, and it's been really hard to pull off the shield double with the championship. And Orlando now, I think, has maybe the best shot of anybody in a while since those Courage teams of 2018-19. So we'll see how that plays off. This is also probably the most competitive semifinal round that I can remember.

Yeah, like you mentioned, there was a very clear top four and we're going to see them all battling. Before we move on to the semis, let's quickly talk about what we saw in the quarterfinals. You mentioned the Pride win over the Red Stars, 4-1, opened up the weekend. We got a brace for Barbara Banda. She hasn't gotten as much attention with a quieter second half, but obviously still very effective. What makes Barbara Banda so dangerous?

Well, I mean, look, she's got the pace, right, that I think is a little bit too cliche, but it's been a problem for everybody. But I think, you know, she is a pure finisher, too. I mean, technically speaking, that is, you know, I think we see it when whether she's 1v1 with a defender and, you know, she beats them on the dribble. If she's 1v1 in the open field, obviously on a through ball and then in front of net. I mean, I think we've seen some creative finishes from her. So, yes, I mean, there's there's.

the speed side, sure, but there's also the technical ability that she's been able to show off in this league. And I think, you know, in a way that has been really good for the wider world, I think, because we've seen her with Zambia and, you know, we've seen that capability, but then playing in China in a league that, you know, is really off the radar. It's not a major league. I mean, players have made their way there for various reasons, including, you know, maybe pay that they weren't getting elsewhere. But now we see her in arguably the best league in the world and she's

regularly beating the best defenders, which I think is a testament to her quality overall. Pride have been so dominant this year. What is their weakness? If you're facing them, where are you looking to try to expose them?

Yeah, well, I think one, I mean, we saw it with Chicago, didn't get the midfield right at all. And I think that was a problem. And that led to those transition moments. I mean, you look at that goal, I guess you'd say the back-breaking goal right before halftime and Emily Sam steps in. It's a win in midfield. She plays a through ball to Banda. She's 1v1 with Kari Recaro and

Um, and that's it. So I think you've really got to win that midfield battle and look, I mean, the Kansas city rematch, we saw this right in, in the rematch that they played in Orlando less than two months ago or about two months ago, a nil, nil draw where it was, it was not the first meeting when these two teams were unbeaten in June in Kansas city, it was a chess match between them. Um,

Neither of them wanted to give up too much of those transition moments. So they both played pretty conservatively, especially for how they've played throughout the season. So I think if you're Kansas City, I mean, that's your blueprint. That's your template is, you know, maybe this wasn't necessarily us, but, you know, we played a more defensive mindset and we were able to really offset Orlando in the midfield. And then obviously that has the knock-on effect to Banda, to Marta, to Ali Watt, whoever's running on the wings. So.

I think that's really it is staying compact, winning the midfield and then looking for the moments in transition. And frankly, that's how both of these teams win games. So it'll be a moment of magic in that semifinal and whether that's Chowinga for Kansas City or Banda for Orlando, we'll see. You mentioned the KC current and they squeezed past the North Carolina Courage on Saturday, golden boot winner, as you mentioned, Temwa Chowinga, the lone goal scorer in that one. She tallied in the eighth minute and then just kind of stuck there. Were you surprised it was as tight as it was?

No, I think this was the one game that I really felt. I mean, Bay, yes, in the game that we'll talk about with Washington, but I think this was the 4-5 game, a 16-point gap between 4 and 5, which I think was pretty noticeable in many ways and really defined this table throughout the season. But not surprising. I mean, it played out the way I think we would have expected in that Kansas City had their moments. They had transition moments. How many of them were they going to finish, I think, was the question, not if.

And for North Carolina, I mean, they kept the ball throughout the match. This was through and through their identity throughout the season. I mean, I asked head coach Sean Nahas before the game, do you stray from that identity at all? And very firmly said, we do not. This is who we are. And we saw that in the game. I mean, I think the problem with the courage throughout the season has been they haven't had a finisher or a really proven finisher, a multi, you know, a double-digit goal scorer that

could finish these opportunities for them. And it's cost them games because they keep the ball and they don't have the final product. And then I think you can point to the absence of MVP, last year's MVP, Caroline, who was in this game. In this game, probably more minutes than she should have or could have played just to try to get the result. And ultimately, I think it really did play out how we expected. Is Kansas City in transition, North Carolina keeping the ball? And like so many times this season, didn't find the breakthrough.

Afterwards, Latko Antonovsky talked about the Courage targeting Temwa, not getting the calls. Do you see that when you're watching the game?

I mean, I think you do in some ways. You know, I think I'd have to check again. When I looked right after the game when he said that, she actually only had one foul suffered on the stat platform I was looking at. But you see it in, I think maybe to his point, in ways where she doesn't get a foul called. And, you know, I think that there's, I mean, there's a lot of layers there, right? I think there's inconsistencies in the refereeing in the league, period. There is, you

you know, is she getting special treatment? Is she not? It is, you know, a number of factors. I think you can point to it. I know a number of teams have pointed to, I mean, I think one of her best qualities beyond the very obvious goal scoring is how she's progressed as, I guess, a team player for lack of a better term in her tracking back defensively. I mean, you'll see her at times near her own end line helping out her fullback. And we've seen that, right? I mean, I think people pointed to

And again, I don't think there was a problem with this tackle, but like she was the one who put in the tackle on Trinity Rodman a month or so ago where it caused Rodman's back spasms. I think those were generally coincidence, those two incidents or the net effect of them, but

you know, I think he's got a fair point. I think people have a fair point in reverse as well that, you know, she's a defensive forward who I think can, you know, give it as much as she can take it at times. Yeah. And sometimes it might be just subconsciously, right? If we're used to seeing those strikers that sort of sit up top and they're the ones handling

the ball and it's they're the ones taking fouls versus when she gets back there on the defensive side you start to sort of even if it's subconsciously see her as more of that um give her than take her and and maybe you don't give her as many of those protected sort of uh favored calls that you might otherwise um let's talk about you mentioned the spirit game they won 2-1 over bay fc an own goal ending the year for the plucky expansion side never a way you want your season to end but what did you see from the bay in year one that you liked

Well, I liked their back half of the season, certainly as putting it all together. And that was the defensive piece. I mean, look, Abby Dahlkemper, a U.S. International World Cup winner, arrives in late August and scores in her first game and immediately, you know, you can't credit everything to Abby Dahlkemper, right? But there's a tangible sort of parallel here with a turn in fortunes for Bay and

you know, they spent, they spent over a million dollars. They spent a world record transfer fee and Rachel couldn't Anji a million dollars, you know, in some, in that winter off season, heading into their first season as an expansion team. And,

You know, they very much define themselves coming into the season as an entertaining attacking team. They were going to score goals. And then the problem was they gave up so many and they couldn't win games. They couldn't even draw games for almost the entirety of the season. So what I liked from them in this back half of the season was finding a defensive balance.

Those pieces are there. I mean, Asisa Roshawala, Rachel Kuninanji, they've got their first season under their belts in this league. This league is always a bit of an adjustment, even for high quality internationals for the most part. And I think you take that, you balance it with that defensive piece, which I think you have to see Abby Dahlkemper as the core and the spine of it. And then you get those midfield pieces, Kiki Pickett, you know, you get Alex Loera back, hopefully healthy for a full season after an early season injury. Tess Bodie,

you know, I think did really well for them. So I think you've got the pieces there and now it's a matter of putting together complete performances as, as they mostly did in the back half of the season. Yeah. It wasn't a great outing for the spirit, but they got the win. What did they need to improve before this weekend?

Yeah, I mean, I think they were frustrated defensively, to your point. I mean, you know, Rodman is the game changer. I think this is the time of year where you look at those players, and we've talked about Choinga and Banda. I mean, Rodman, I think, maybe a slightly distant third in an MVP race, but certainly had her name in that in many ways, and is the sort of...

entertaining player, certainly American in this league and among the best, you know, among any players in this league. So she can change games on her own. I think, you know,

Obviously, it's a lot of pressure to put that on her in a playoff game, but that's in some ways what playoffs are about. So I think getting her on the ball more and then that midfield, I think Bay was really able to stay compact and frustrate that spirit midfield at times. So finding a way to get through against, frankly, a Gotham team that I know we'll talk about, but that is a strength of theirs. So it's going to be a tough one for the spirit for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, as good a shot as anybody in this top four. I think we really are seeing a semifinal round here where any of these four are going to be worthy champions. Any of these four, I think the margins will be really fine on the day. And, you know, we saw from Gotham in this quarterfinal against Portland. Yes, they left it late, very late in stoppage time that I think we only had because of a dubiously long VAR review. Dubiously long. That play was like...

half a second long and it took like 11 minutes to review. Well, yeah, it's like, I mean, I went back and counted it the morning after here and it was six minutes almost of, of review. And for something that, you know, by the letter of the law, even on the, on the call on TV was pretty clear because this happened earlier in the season with in a Portland game and pro came out and said, we got it wrong. So this was the Becky Sauerbrunn potential handball call that in case people don't know what we're talking about. So it probably should have been forever to look at more cut and dry, but yeah,

Yeah, but Gotham in this game, I mean, look, I know the scoreline and the late goal, but for me, Gotham controlled this game. I thought Neely Martin was really impressive in that sort of lone-holding midfield role she has been. I mean, that's the story, right? Is Rose Lavelle, Tierna Davidson, they're those big names that came over in the offseason, and they've gotten all the attention, among others, this season for Gotham. But Gotham's got this done, not just 26 deep, but...

But I mean, I was out in San Antonio the other week. They're signing seven players just to get a roster fielded for a cup final. They've gone really deep this year and it's players like Martin. It's players like Delaney Sheehan coming off the bench.

having that assist for the game winner six minutes later in stoppage time. And they found the depth, they found the balance, and they've got the momentum. So I think as good a shot as anybody at this for a championship. Before we move on from that final game for Christine Sinclair, there was a feeling that maybe Portland could come up with some magic to try to sort of win one for the Gippers style. Can you put in perspective for us just what Christine Sinclair did for the game? How much she achieved?

Yeah. I mean, it's tough to do that. Right. I think 11 years in Portland. Um, I think that is sort of, even that is a small piece of it, but is a big piece of it for her and that, you know, she was a founding member of the thorns and helped define that franchise, which is arguably the most successful in the league. Um, obviously for Canada has been the face of a country for two decades plus. And, uh,

you know, world leading goal scorer internationally. And I think, you know, all while doing so and, and, you know, all of those incredible stats. And I think, you know, this is, it may be a little bit cheesy, but like, you know, we talk about it, right. It's like, how do people talk about you and, and, you know, kind of the humble superstar. I mean, I don't think you can find a person who can say a bad thing about Christine Sinclair. And, you know, I think just right down to the very end, I mean, I, you know, we, we waited a long time after the game to try to just talk to her for a couple minutes and, and,

you know, even in asking her about sort of the end for her, the entirety of her answer strayed to the team and losing the game. And that's just her in a nutshell, even despite being, you know, world leading goal scorer, and all those things. A Canadian's Canadian, truly. Also, in honor of her retirement, I think we should finally fix the internet. So when you search who is the highest goal scorer in international soccer history, you've

fucking stop getting dudes and start getting Christine Sinclair at the top of the page. It's so infuriating. Temwa, Barbara Banda, Asisado Shwala, who you mentioned, Rachel Kundinanji. You're looking at some of the goal scorers in this opening round. You're looking at some of the big names in this opening round. And it's a reminder of so many high quality African players joining this league and becoming instant game changers. How has the arrival of those African players really changed the NWSL?

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, in some ways, maybe a missing piece for these top teams. Orlando is a team that I think had a lot of pieces in place last year to build a foundation for what they're doing this year. Never in my lifetime would I have expected to say that the Orlando Pride would start a game 20, a season 23 games unbeaten.

But, I mean, what they lacked was probably a proven goal scorer. And there it is in Bando with 13 goals in the season, in the regular season. And, you know, Temuachewenga obviously breaking Sam Kerr's record again. I don't know that it was a record that I felt like would never fall, especially as we've expanded the league and the season. But, you know, it's been there for a while. And Sam Kerr was...

you know, did what she did in a singular way in this league. So, you know, Temuah Chewinga comes in year one and breaks it. You know, I think that they've really, in many ways, those two players alone, but, but, you know, even beyond them, the influx of international talent this year has defined the league. And it's been really quite a response from the world cup last year in a way, and whether they directly correlate or not, you know,

The U.S. was generally terrible at that World Cup. We came out of that saying, is this where everybody turns and says the NWSL is not doing it for us? We need to expand our game and go abroad. That really didn't happen. And instead, NWSL teams brought in international players. And I think the league has in many ways doubled down on being arguably the best in the world because of that. So I think that they've helped in that case. Absolutely.

As a fan of NWSL, as someone who supports all of these investors and folks who are trying to make this game bigger here, I'm so grateful that's the direction it went in because there was a real panic post-World Cup about how the U.S. was failing on the international level, but also about how if the international game started to pass them by, would the exporting of players to European leagues or other leagues around the world be

be more likely than being able to draw them in. And instead, with the arrival of some of these fantastic players and the enthusiasm and excitement around it, I think we can say that the NWSL is still the best league in the world, or at least still competing for the best and with room to grow now that we've seen the results of these players arriving, which is great news for growth. Okay, quickly, let's look ahead to the semis. Gotham at Washington next Saturday. Who's got the edge?

I mean, look, I like, I like Gotham on momentum. Uh, momentum's a bit cliche, I realized, but I, you know, pairing with that is the fact that they find ways to get things done. And to the point of not just with their superstars, but you know, the depth that they have, I mean, she hadn't coming off the bench because she was dealing with a minor injury, but you know, whether it's she hand, we haven't even said Yaz Ryan yet, who, who won Carlos Amoros head coach was, was really complimentary of in that midfield. So, you know, Ryan Martin, um,

They've been really sound despite maybe a couple moments in that quarterfinal and obviously maybe escaped with the help of the woodwork. But yeah, I like Gotham in that matchup for the run that they've been on, the ways they've found to get it done. And, you know, Spirit on pure talent. I mean, I think this game is maybe equal on pure talent if you're looking on paper. But I think Gotham has...

Some experience from last year and they've got that identity. I mean, the Spirit do as well in transition, but Gotham finds ways to control games, to win games. And, you know, I think that they've got all of those pieces in place in a way that should get them through to the final.

We saw a pretty rocking home crowd at Audi Field. Does that play a difference there for you, that the Spirit are going to be at home? I mean, I think it's a factor. Yeah. I mean, being at Red Bull Arena yesterday, it was the best I've ever seen Red Bull Arena for a Gotham or Sky Blue game. It was, as the press box is seated, as you know, which is the last time it'll ever be, unfortunately, we're right behind the benches and

I mean, the crowd was on the refereeing crew. I would say the Gotham bench was fired up. We had at one point, I don't know what the cameras caught, but the thorns were coming out of their technical area to talk to the fourth official. So,

I would say, I mean, it's always hard to tell. It's impossible to know what the crowd plays into a referee or otherwise, but like it was there in a way that had never been there for Red Bull Arena. And I think you could say that about Audi Field in many ways, at least for, you know, Audi Field pre-Michelle Kang era in a way. Right. You know, even though that was growing at a time, but yeah.

Right. Well, we talked about it on the show yesterday that the crowd for the last home playoff game for the Spirit was somewhere around 5,000-something, and this was a sellout at 19,000-plus. I mean, it's a very different space now. Maybe we'll get Magic Johnson back there in one of those boxes to high-five Trinity if things are going well.

Let's talk about the other one. Orlando hosting Kansas City on Sunday. How can KC, you mentioned this, end the Pride's great season. Is it really just about not making mistakes and allowing the Pride to attack, but also finding ways to make them make mistakes? Yeah, I mean, I think as simple as that sounds, it is. Because you look at that blueprint of a game from September, and it really was...

a little bit, despite all the talent on both of these teams of you make the first move because each of these teams knows how much they can get, you know, how effective they are in transition and how effective the other team is in transition. So if you commit those numbers forward, you know, you might, and you don't score, obviously you can very quickly get countered and, and neither of these teams you want to be countered by. So, uh,

I do think we could see something very similar to September, which was a scoreless draw. I mean, this could go to 120 to PKs potentially. There's so little between these teams right down to that proven goal scorer that is just head and shoulders above the rest of the league in Chuinga and Banda. You've got Marta in midfield. You've got a host of other names that would take too long to list, right? And Casey has that in midfield as well. So, yeah, I do think this is going to be –

a game that potentially turns on on a moment of a mistake even yeah and Casey of course wants to get to the final in their home stadium Orlando obviously wants to actually get the title to cap off a season that's already been supposed so spectacular for a team that was sort of the laughingstock of the league for such a long time they've got the old win one for Marta to her contract obviously um we don't know where where her future lies after this season um

I listened to a really fascinating conversation that talked about how the lack of relegation in the NWSL and also the style of play means that teams usually show up for every single game playing their style. We don't usually see the way we do an international play when the U.S. is in the World Cup or in the Olympics.

We talk a lot about the other teams choosing to play a certain style, knowing that the U.S. is a better team, playing super defensive and hoping that a mistake will allow them to get some magic knowing that they're outmatched. We don't usually see that in the NWSL, but does it feel like when you get down to these playoffs, you will potentially see teams being more willing to play outside of their own style in order to do what we just talked about with the Pride Kansas City game, which is fantastic?

Maybe we lay back a little bit and hope that we get that opportunity and we force them to make a mistake instead of going out there with whatever aggressive style we'd usually bring to a regular season game. Yeah. I mean, I'd argue that's happening in ways that maybe our sort of novice eyes don't see as much in the regular season. You can say my novice eyes. No, I mean myself as well. Like, I mean, listen, I've been on calls where coaches definitely don't agree with the assessment that we've had from the outside. Right. But yeah.

um you know i think maybe this yeah the stakes are a little bit lower in the regular season and in ways but certainly there's an adaptation i mean i think most coaches will tell you publicly that we play our game we don't you know we're not going to adapt to them they're going to adapt to us but of course there's an adaptation of course you're going to go to an into a game and say you know we can't give orlando this piece we can't give kansas city that part um so i do think

you know, I think the coaching actually, I mean, I wrote about this in the off season. Um, although so much has changed in mid season, including the shocking stuff that like Casey Stoney, not being in San Diego right now is nothing I would have predicted eight months ago, but you know, the coaching carousel of the off season really benefited the NWSL as well. You've got Jonathan Heraldez coming over from Barcelona, arguably, you know, the most coveted position in the world in club football is Lord to Washington. Like a lot went right there. Vlachoninovsky returning as Kansas city's head coach, um,

And that has really elevated, I think, the tactical piece of this league in many ways. We talked about North Carolina with their possession. So I actually think that

this league to counter wherever that point was made a little bit. Like, I think this league doesn't quite get enough credit for being more tactically flexible for the coaching quality that exists. And I do think as much as there's a tired cliche that we use here about there's only two good teams in France and all of that, which is becoming a little bit less true. I think it happens in reverse too, that the NWSL is only a transition league when I don't, I think that's a dated view to be honest. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, we're going to have to have you back with more time to talk about, like you mentioned, whatever the hell is going on with the wave, what other changes we hope to see from this league in the offseason. But we can save all that for the offseason because we got semis coming up and you did such a great job getting us primed and ready for those. So thank you so much for the time, Jeff. And congrats on the gig with ESPN. We love to see a dedicated reporter covering all that stuff and bringing us the good stuff. So thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me, Sarah. We got to pay the bills. Stick around.

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Winning is based on skill. Our skin tells a story. How we feel and how we look are deeply connected. On Our Skin, a personal discovery podcast, join me, Holly Frey, who you may know from Stuff You Missed in History class, and a slate of incredible guests who share their personal journey with psoriasis, like professional cyclist Mandy Marquardt.

I noticed these flare ups happen when I'm under stress. And just to kind of be more knowledgeable in that space and just have more awareness and using my platform and also just communicating with my coaches and my family like, hey, I'm having another flare up. And it's not just I used a bad product on my hair or a bad shampoo. It's more than that.

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Welcome back, slices. So last week, you may recall my ode to soup season and my request that y'all send me recipes. Well, we heard from one carrot slice. Who puts oranges in soup, right? Monica Powers wrote, quote, listening to you while making soup for my restaurant. Love your show. Can't send you recipes because they're top secret. Okay, well, thanks for nothing, Monica. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

soup recipes? Send them. Send me your delicious vegetarian soup recipes, please, people not named Monica. You don't even have to work in a restaurant to be qualified. Send them. And while I'm asking for favors, you guys know that we love that you're listening, but we want you to get in the game every day, too. So here's our good game play of the day. Please join the few loyal slices who have messaged us to tell us the ways they're making a difference in their little slice of the world.

We are all trying not to catastrophize about the future, so it really helps to hear that there are good people everywhere doing their best. So thank you to Erin Raw, whose family is fighting back by playing women's sports, by supporting her eldest daughter's good friend who happens to be trans, and by focusing on what they can do to spread real information. And to Pamela Mudway, who has deleted Twitter...

is reducing her reliance on Amazon by going directly to the sellers of the products that she frequently buys on Amazon, and is volunteering for causes that matter to her. We love that. Shop local, support local. I heard this last year and it totally stuck with me. If you like walking around your neighborhood and seeing cute little stores, then you have to actually shop at those cute little stores or they won't exist anymore.

So do that and speak up for folks in public and online and anywhere else that marginalized folks are being mistreated. They need our support. And yes, if you can quit Twitter slash X, do it. I honestly hate telling y'all to follow me there or find info or vote on things there. I just haven't found a suitable replacement yet. And I got to do my job. I got to get league team, athlete information, news updates, all that stuff. And until I find a replacement, I got to stay there. But you can quit.

So yeah, send us that. Send us how you're making a difference. And also, don't forget, this trio needs a name. What do you want to call me, Alex, and Misha? Let us know. Hit us up on email, goodgameatwondermedianetwork.com, or leave us a voicemail, 872-204-5070. And...

As always, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review. It's super easy. Watch. Finding a perfect little dog paw print in the mud. Rating, five out of five good boys. Review. What a delight it is to stumble upon an unknown dog print perfectly preserved in the mud. You know, just knowing that a dog walked right where you're now walking sometime between the current moment in time and the last big rain or windstorm. It's truly a small joy in life.

fossilize that shit. Now it's your turn. Rate and review. Thanks for listening, Slices. See you tomorrow. Good game, Jeff. Good game, Lily Yohannes. You the news. All of it right now. Go away. I am still trying to disassociate.

Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network. Our producers are Alex Azzi and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder, Brittany Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Lindsay Cradwell. Production assistance from Lucy Jones. And I'm your host, Sarah Spain.

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Imagine the most beautiful panoramic setting. Endless waves crashing on a beach. Kids playing in the park. Now, right smack in the middle of your perfect picture, imagine just one piece of litter. It doesn't fit, does it? And it simply doesn't belong anywhere. Certainly not in California. Not even one piece. Good news? If we work together, we will change it all. Clean California. Zero litter is the goal. CleanCA.com.

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