Craig Laundy backs tobacco tax review - 'It makes sense'
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On Sydney Now. You can't handle the truth. The Straight Shooters. The biggest issue in state politics this week is going to be the future of our workers' compensation scheme. And that's because it's blown out.

The reason it's blown out is because of claims for psychological injuries in the workplace, mental health issues. And it's the Labor government that actually wants to address this. And they want to make some significant changes where there'll be different tests that judge psychological industry. In fact, there could be a whole separate system to deal with this particular problem. And I wanted to talk to Craig Laundie, who's our straight shooter on Monday, about this one because...

He's in the world of business and small to medium business, but also he's a former Liberal MP and there's a lot of pressure right now on the Liberal Party. Hello Craig. G'day Clinton, how are you? I'm good. The reason I say there's a lot of pressure on the Liberal Party is because as we go to air right now, there is a Shadow Cabinet meeting on. And during the Shadow Cabinet meeting, which is led by Mark Speakman, they are discussing legislation that's going to go to State Parliament. This is Daniel Mookie, the Labour Treasurer's legislation.

We'll go to Parliament this week to make changes to the way workers' compensation, but particularly the way mental health claims are treated. The reason for this is, and this has been an issue for some years though, iCare being financially unsustainable. This is the main workers' compensation insurance body in New South Wales. So Daniel Mookie's had a look at it and he basically wants to change the way mental health is dealt with.

They say, the government says, if these changes aren't approved by Parliament, it will lead to a dramatic increase in premiums for businesses. It will hurt the taxpayer as well, that funds obviously public claims. At the moment, now, my information is that no decision, as we go to air right now, has been made by the Liberal Party and the Nationals about whether they'll support this legislation or not.

Now, when you think about it, it would be very much a Liberal Party core philosophy to support this change. It's like I'm living in a parallel universe. I mean, we've just come out of a federal election where they got delivered a message loud and clear, and you have a state opposition Liberal National Coalition government that are looking at turning their back. And let's put some numbers on this, Clinton.

there's been a 26% increase in workers' comp insurance premiums over the past three years. And it is forecast that the next three years, if the system is left unabated, there will be 36% increase. And it's just how you could not... And every major employer in the country...

is calling on the Libs and the Nats who are, you know, those people are the Libs and the Nats core constituents. Now, if you don't run a small business, you don't work in the management of a medium-sized business or a large business, you probably don't have a clue about this, but workers' compensation premiums are paid by every business. It's compulsory to have workers' compensation insurance. So if the premiums go up,

That's going to increase the costs of every single business in our state, which is going to be passed on to our listeners. It's passed on. And this system is so bad, Clinton, in its design, that when you incur the cost...

it's added to your premium for the following three years by the insurance company. So this is a cost that is borne four times by business, once a year, once at the start, and then for the following three years. And no one gets that. And the drama I've got is the people sitting around the shadow cabinet table today, this afternoon, and the parallel universe thing, it's the Labor Party that is making sense yet again on a key economic,

issue that should be bread and butter for the Libs and the Nats. I've got a quote here from Mark Speakman held a press conference mid-afternoon and he was asked about what the position would be of shadow cabinet on this. He said we will do our very best this afternoon as a shadow cabinet and tomorrow in a joint party room so the Liberals and Nationals meet on the first day of Parliament for the week tomorrow to dissect the issue and announce our position.

So they haven't come to a position yet. Which is crazy. And they're hiding behind the fig leaf that this is being foist upon them. Everyone knows this system has been broken. No one's been prepared. It was broken when they were in power. 100%. And they weren't prepared to do anything. Here's a Labor government. Daniel Mookie is Treasurer, prepared to do something. But,

They're also saying, oh, they want an inquiry. Here's an idea, Clinton. They are the opposition. They sit in the lower house and the upper house. If you don't like what's been presented to you in the last week, make amendments. Use the parliamentary process to make it better. And maybe that's what they're discussing right at the moment.

moment. Well, I'd hope so. Maybe broadly they'll support, but with amendments. Now, just to clarify. Well, in today's AFR, Damien Tudor, who was the shadow treasurer, is talking about an inquiry. An upper house inquiry. And you know what? The Labor Party loves an inquiry, right? They call reviews and inquiries the drop of the hat, but the Liberals aren't going to help themselves by doing that. Now, just in case you haven't followed this over the last couple of months, because it's not

It's not particularly a sexy issue, but why I'm raising it is because if the premiums go up dramatically for business, it will affect all of us because we all interact with businesses and buy their goods and services. So it will mean things will go up in price.

Where the big increase in payouts is occurring is for psychological injuries. Now, I'm not downplaying mental health concerns whatsoever because most of us now have some sort of connection, whether it's with their own families or our loved ones who have dealt with these issues. It's a big grey area. It is difficult to judge. I don't want to downplay that.

But there has been a dramatic increase in claims made through the workers' compensation scheme for people suffering these mental health injuries in the workplace. Now, your family, as we know, runs pubs. Pretty big, big organisation. I've no doubt you would have employees who have made claims for your insurance premiums, for your insurance coverage,

about mental health issues? Employers Mutual, and let me give some lived experience with how this system is being gamed. Employers Mutual is our employer. They recently pursued an ex-employee of ours who we were performance managing because she wasn't doing the job the way we wanted it done. It wasn't aggressive,

abusive. It was, hey, these are the way, these are the parameters. She then went on and claimed stress leave. She was on stress leave for an extended period of time. And just coincidentally, fortunately, I happened to learn that you wouldn't believe it, three suburbs away, she's working, running a hotel for my cousins. But I thought she was on stress leave. She was collecting a check from us every week. Now, the employers mutual at our request, they didn't want to pursue this

We made them pursue it because it would have stayed on our premium for three years. Now, it was sheer good fortune that we happened to find out she was working somewhere nearby. But there is a prime example. And what did she claim? And this is the part...

very technical, but section 11a of the Act, it's where you cannot effectively performance manage your staff because the first thing they do is put up their hands and we don't have all afternoon. I'm sure your listeners that have businesses out there will be dialing in between five and six and giving you their own lived experience.

But, you know, it has to be a fair income system, robust, that looks after absolutely the mental health of people, you know, in workplace environments. But it can't do that at the expense of throwing employers on the scrap heap. And where this is difficult is that, and again, I'm not trying to dismiss mental health issues, but if somebody breaks a leg in the workplace, it's actually really clear they've slipped on the banana that's been left on the kitchen floor. They've broken their leg.

If somebody is bullied in the workplace and then suffers a mental breakdown, it's actually really difficult to prove. So there's...

There's no doubt these issues do exist in the workplace. We all know this is what happens. This has happened for generations. And we know we take these issues seriously now. But we also need to modernise the system so we can actually assess those problems fairly and so we're not ripping ourselves off. Because in the end, we're all ripping ourselves off because we end up paying more. We pay. But the other thing, Clinton, is these people at the time that are gaming the system are ultimately not thinking longer term. I mean, once you have this issue sitting against your...

you as an employee, who do you think is going to hire you post this? I mean, you're basically unemployable because the insurer would be saying to the employer, no, we're not prepared to insure her because there's a pre-existing or him because there's a pre-existing condition. The system's broken and it just defies belief that the party of small and family business in this state is

is going to kick it down the road to an inquiry. If you don't like it, read it, come up with the amendments that are, I would hope, further strengthening 11a and make the system long-term sustainable. Peter on the text line says the government is causing him stress.

You might be able to make a claim, Pete. Yeah, Pete, good luck. We'll cover that tomorrow because it will be an issue in state parliament tomorrow. Chris Minns today, I think he's become the first politician to actually make the obvious point, but politicians don't like making it, that the high excise on cigarettes, on tobacco, has led to the growth in the black market.

Now, again, obviously running pubs and clubs or pubs, you see smokers and they go to their specific area smoking. What's your experience? I have, and I find this hard to believe, but I have a great friend of mine that is still a smoker.

And recently I asked her about this and she said, oh, yeah, no, I go, I used to pay the full freight, but I now go to the tobacconist and I said, have you got any cheaper options? And she's paying $17, $18, $19 for a pack of cigarettes. What is it? It's illegal chop chop. I mean, you can't have this. If you want to have excises at that high, you have to be fair dinkum and police it.

And there's no federal or, you know, and the state doesn't have the resources. They're frontline policing anyway. And Chris Minns has made the point today. At the moment, it's up to New South Wales Health. They have something like 12 inspectors. They're going to double it. But Chris Minns has said, look, in the budget, we are looking at whether we now transfer that policing power to the police force itself. And Clinton in the Fair Dinkum Department, again,

a lot of these politicians have never run a business, but how hard would it be to walk in as a government employee, be it state or federal, and say, can you explain to me, show me the invoices on how you got this tobacco that's sitting on your shelves or in the back storeroom? I mean, it wouldn't be rocket science, would it? It wouldn't be. I mean, we have proceeds of crime legislation where we confiscate criminals' cars, houses, jewellery, you name it, and we do it through forensic accounting. This isn't...

Complicated accounting. You don't need forensic accounting. No. There's a shop I drive past on a regular basis. It has a flashing sign saying vapes. Yes. They're not allowed to sell vapes. You've got to go to a pharmacist. That's what I'm saying. It defies belief. I mean, this is a frustrating segment this afternoon because the world is, we're living in a parallel universe. Well, Let's Lighten Up was on this day, 1986, Queen's A Kind of Magic was released. It's a kind of magic. Great song. Magic. Magic. Magic. Begs the question, Craig,

What is the one album that you would never stop listening to? Look, I knew this was coming and you grow up, your formative years and you're older. I mean, is it Robbie Williams live at Nebsworth? But look, I just couldn't go by my mum, my dad playing Hot August Night live at the Greek on repeat in those formative years and I've become a Neil Diamond fan. Neil Diamond. Good life.

Well, see, I might change the pace here. What have you got? I'm sort of into melancholic music, to be honest. That's really changing the pace. Favourite album of all time is Jeff Buckley's Grace.

And that's his version of Leonard Cohen's Hello You. There are some tracks on the album that are a little more up-tempo. I think it's 30 years this year since that album was released. Of course, he passed away because he went for a swim in the Mississippi River with his boots on. Yeah, never a good plan. Which is not ideal, hey? Thanks, Craig. Good on you, Clint. Craig Laudy, our straight shooter for a Monday afternoon.