'Not just a phase?' - Child psychiatrist weighs in on furry subculture emerging in Aussie schools
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10 past 4, 131873. Look, I want to hear from you on this one. I want your insights, if you've had any exposure to this. Furries. We talked about this with Lucy Zelich on Wednesday afternoon. And I've got to say, when we posted a video on our social media feeds, our social media has attracted more hits than we can remember. Apparently there's something like a billion hits on our different forms of social media. TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter.

and we've had hundreds and hundreds of comments from people who have had some exposure to furries. They may have kids who are in school who have classmates who identify as a furry. Now, a furry is... It doesn't just have to be a kid. Adults do this as well. Somebody dressed up as a cartoon animal and then claims they are that animal, a cat or a dog. It might even get to the point where they bark or meow in class.

And some of the messages we've received, just astonishing. One of them, our school literally has a cat litter box in the toilets. Another one, in school I know there are three girls in the same class who act as cats. They have demanded kitty litter in the classroom. Another one, I have a cat at my school. They don't have to do the same work as we do. This is from a kid. They wear cat's ears sometimes. And that's a Catholic private school. This comment says,

We're not allowed ear piercings and bracelets at school, but we actually have cats in the classroom. Really next level strange. Now, I know this has been around for a few years and I don't understand it. I do not understand it. I'll talk to a child psychiatrist in a moment. But if you've had any exposure to this, if you know anything about it, let me know. 131873. Gail, you're a grandmother. You know a little bit about this.

Yes, just through my granddaughter from about four years ago when she went to high school. Yeah. Yeah, and came home and saying, Nan, you're not going to believe what's going on at school. And there was a group of girls, mainly, yeah, it seemed to be mainly females that were identifying as different animals. Yeah.

One in particular was a cat that she spoke about quite frequently. And these children, they went to school dressed up in a furry catsuit.

Some were in suits, but some were just adding bits and pieces like tails, ears, makeup. And they would hang around in their own little groups and they would make their noises. They weren't given any special concessions that I know about.

So at that particular school, there was no kitty litter, for instance? No, not that I'm aware of. Not at that time. I don't know how it is now because we've progressed four years. I know I have come across a young lady that works at Woolworths that dresses, apart from the tail, no ears. There's no tail, no ears, but...

But makeup definitely, you know, like, is showing her leanings. I think it's absolutely ridiculous. I think the kids are taking a lend of us. What do you reckon, Gayle?

I think they're taking a limb, but because it's just ongoing, at first I thought, oh, yeah, you know, it's just a phase and, you know. But because it seems to be ongoing and getting more prevalent, it just worries me, actually. It's probably getting more prevalent because they're allowed to get away with it. Yeah, yeah. And they definitely shouldn't, yeah. I don't think they should be encouraged, but I know that the kids, my granddaughter and that, were...

They, yes. Okay. They have to be respectful of their colleagues. Okay. Thanks for the information, Gail. Gail, whose granddaughter has been in class with furries. Well, is this legitimate? Is this a...

Is this a psychological condition? Dr. Philip Tan is a child psychiatrist. Thanks for your time, Doctor. Yes, no, you're very welcome, Clinton. Thank you. I can't quite accept that there are kids who seriously believe they're a cat or a dog. Am I living in the dark ages? It's a great point. Well, look, I think the first point, and look, I'm no expert in this because it's still, as I think the grandmother noted, a very...

kind of niche area. I don't think we can generalize that it's necessarily a long-term thing. It may be a phase that people go through, you know, part of the dress-ups, the excitement of things. And there's absolutely nothing wrong, Clinton, with dress-ups and make-believe. You know, it's part of the process.

the fun, the kind of pushing of boundaries of childhood. I guess the key question is, does it become a long-term thing and does it create any other pathologies? Well, Philip, it's a part of childhood, but I'm sure when you were a child and certainly when I went to school...

I wasn't allowed to dress up as my favourite footballer Andrew Ettinghausen and wear the Sharks jersey to class. That is true, and there are general rules about decorum and dressing. That is a really tricky one, and I guess we have to look as a society about where do we...

draw the lines, I guess there are some comparisons to the 70s and 80s about gender identity and of course sexuality, if you see what I mean. So I guess you could argue that we've come through those complex, sometimes painful debates about sexuality

in young people and now gender in the past 10 or 20 years. We've now got non-binary toilets, for example. So I guess our leaders and our thought opinion leaders will have to think about, yes, where do we draw the line? Is having a cat litter as well as a non-binary toilet, is that actually going too far? And I'm afraid I don't think we have any of the answers because it's still a very...

small niche area but look maybe it's going to grow maybe the power of the internet and the influencing and all of this is going to make this a bit more mainstream mainstream than it actually is now doctor i understand that you need to respect patient client confidentiality patient doctor confidentiality but do you treat children who are identifying as furries uh

Good point. I have got a few, but I don't see them. And I want to stress this being a furry or identifying as a furry in itself is not the pathology. But what I will say, and I'm sure your listeners will really find this interesting, is that there is a big overlap with all of those gender and non-binary identities, if you like, and mental illness, like things like autism, depression.

sensory issues, depression and ADHD. So there is a big overlap with other mental health issues. So the ones that I would see have got other issues like depression and ADHD and what we call Asperger's. So I don't treat...

than being a furry. There might be psychologists that do that, but I treat any associated mental illness. And that's a key question. You might say dressing up in the cat suit and meowing is a symptom of the mental issues they're facing. Can be, yes. But I obviously don't want to say that because...

because someone identifies as a furry, they are mentally ill. I don't want to say that, but I'm saying that there do seem to be associations with rates of mental illness like stress and depression in that area, just like we know that people in the non-binary and gender fluid...

section of society and young people they have actually got the highest rates of mental illness and that's what I'm passionate about I'm passionate about making all those people feel included and valued and productive that's really what my job is if that makes sense so I treat the other mental health illnesses that they might or of course their parents might bring them here to my private clinics to see You've got a tough job that's for sure doctor thank you for your time

Thank you. Dr Philip Tan, who's a child psychiatrist. I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm not an expert in this area, but I am the father of three teenagers who go to school. I think this is just garbage. Honestly, I think it's absolute garbage. Yes, I'm well aware that teenagers suffer mental health issues. I'm well aware of all that. But by allowing kids to turn up to school dressed as a dog, and this is actually happening, it has been an issue in the past as well, but this is happening. And some schools are allowing this to happen.

By allowing your kid in class to woof at the teacher, that's just facilitating it. And I've got all these messages about kitty litter boxes being left in classrooms. That just allows the kids to carry on like this. Now, when we went to school, we had to wear uniforms. Now, I know at my kid's school, I've got kids in two different schools. They have to wear their uniform to school. Fortunately, they don't have any classmates who wear a dog suit and there's no barking.

Mental health issues with teenagers is a deep concern and it needs to be treated effectively. And I know from experience, it's a very complex area. But this is going too far. This is going way too far. If you've got information about this, share it with me and I'll certainly respect your opinion on it. But if we're allowing this in our classrooms...

It's us as the parents and it's the authorities as well who are to blame for this explosion in mental health issues if this is what it's all about. 131873.